Are Kickstarters and 3D Printing making a more Monopolistic Market for Games Workshop?

[@tinyfishhobby3138]

The older I get, the less I'm interested in battle reports and the more I'm interested in inside industry discussion like this.

[@jeancouscous]

Most interesting indeed !

[@chadnine3432]

I can't count how many times I've found a product I wanted, looked up where to buy it, and found it was kickstarted and not on sale anymore or ever outside the kickstarter.

[@Vilegrin]

Was awesome to hear the old intro music

[@Weed_Ghost]

After all the Lord of War vids on this Very Important Topic, I need to see you guys play some Trench Crusade 😂

[@Weed_Ghost]

Oh, with GW models, of course

[@utarefson9]

@@Weed_Ghost Not gonna lie, Trench crusade looks like some astroturfed 40k ripoff AI slop to me, at this point i just downvote videos i see recommended to me about it.

[@Weed_Ghost]

@utarefson9 speak your truth, bro.

[@mikefish1124]

​@@utarefson9it does look pretty generic at this point. Like sure...it's Grimdark and all. But it's grimdark for like no real reason - just a bunch of people making AI nonsense and needing an excuse to put it in a game

[@StormWildSpace]

@@utarefson9 It's like they fed art from the Degenesis RPG into an ai model and it shit out that awful art.

[@marekskyrim]

I feel like the Kickstarter / 3D printing / online problem is that it's only talking to its own fans - it restricts a market that is already niche from the beginning. For example, Mantic Games doesn't hire true new blood through their Kickstarters / stl sales, they mainly appeal to their existing fan community. That's why I don't agree with people saying retails aren't necessary anymore : they are still the main contact point for true beginners. And IMHO that's why none of the competitors will ever endanger GW's monopoly as long as they don't invest heavily in their own retail store network.

[@mikemartell365]

Love these business chats, super informative. As someone who backed multiple Mythic games, I’m all for just doing retail these days and turned my back fully on crowdfunding. CMON has never burned me, but when you get a massive campaign all in one shot, truth is that’s it’s super overwhelming and in the end I only play with 20% of it before the next shiny thing comes thru.

[@Artmesa]

IDK man, I quit GW games 15 years ago, tried it again and quit again because it still sucks for all the same reasons. The difference, now, I that I am staying in the hobby because there are so many amazing games now. Many I can print from home on my laser printer and 3D printer.

[@dominicmetzger3246]

As they say, the best game is the one you can find people to play with. Hard to find new players just 3d printing on your own. 40K may not be the “best game” but you can play it every day of the week.

[@bassistcz]

The thing is, you started with GW, got back in with GW, and that was the gateway to getting you into the hobby and eventually into 3D printing. And that's how most people get into the hobby, and many stay with GW and don't make that transition forward. Most of those that do, do it because someone else introduced them the wider world of the hobby. And that's easier to do if those other games have shelf space in LGSs and it's more readily available and seen and others are working on it. I got into other games as a friend's brother was a play tester for the original Distopian Wars game and introduced me to it and got me my first kits. Now I am primarily a solo hobbyist collection different games with 2 player starter sets, so I can play with friends who don't hobby but like games. That's the plan anyway, I've just got a big back log of grey at the moment 😅

[@punk6119]

I wish and hope Miniwargaming hears this. This is 100% why I struggle with their game. It's fantastic, but not of shelves. It's not infront if people other than their community. I've played it, bought a box at adepticon, but I have no one to play with because people don't want to invest in something they don't know online. But if it's at the LGS, they are more likely to buy into it.

[@luketfer]

Me and a friend are starting Turnip28 at the local gaming store. It may be just us but the 40k players had no interest in it because the 40k players are all heavy onto meta competitive tournie style play which we just don't find fun.

[@Dstinct]

On the flip side, the LGS shelf is already crowded, so there is no guarantee that any store is going to pick up the game when they already have other stuff selling.

[@AelisLleowyn]

As a retailer myself, I tend to shy from lines that were Kickstarted because the core people that I would have been able to sell it to have already bought in.

[@marekskyrim]

TBH, the main point of miniature wargames is to play with fellow players. I know, it sounds dumb said like this, but to do that, you need of course other players but also a place where to play. There's a natural limit with playing at home and not everyone can afford to have a huge room to gather, say, a dozen people to play together. Rent isn't cheap, and clubs often struggle to find a big enough place for that. They also need to make themselves know. That's why retail stores are a natural (and often crucial) place to gather and find info for local clubs / playing groups, IMHO - something online shops will never be able to afford.

[@crann777]

I got tired of FOMO Kickstarters because I inevitably get overwhelmed when a 30 lb box of minis shows up. Also gun shy after getting burned bad by Blacklist Games (sorta blame Ash for that one, lol).

[@AnarchicGoose]

Really interesting to hear this perspective. I've felt for a while that the actual miniatures wargame part of GW has felt increasingly vestigial - they don't make their money making tightly designed and well-balanced rules, they make it from being a brand that you can build an entire lifestyle around if you really want (same as Marvel). I haven't been interested in GW products for quite a few years now as I've moved on to other games systems which are giving me the experience I want, I just hope that there's enough money in doing that these companies can outlive me doing it.

[@DasDevilSquid]

I'm curious to see if Trench Crusade changes their approach to the game due to the success of the KS. What was a cool one off game option with STLS and such now has a real potential to be a presence in the gaming universe, so they'll have to make decisions based on a long term company. Perhaps STLs will no longer be a thing moving forward if they revamp their production plans because they'd need to plan long term now.

[@yyzhed]

"Their version of punk rock is just IP theft" That one is gunna stick with me

[@Vorpal_Wit]

"You keep on using this word, but I do not think it means what you think it means." - Inigo Montoya

[@jeancouscous]

Great talk, i wanted to add the trench crusade enjoyers are not all "this will kill GW" (if they are not stupid and have a miminum awareness about business). I for one like both: Trench crusade for its indie and authentic flavour and GW for the big production mainstream games.

[@liamfishwick2943]

Mantic games is a fun on. The are not a listed company, i assume most of their money comes from their kickstarter style boardgames and then they us that money to help their other gams like Kings of war grow. They dont need to chace profitability. Not saying they dont make money 9million usd a year is great for 3 or 4 owners...but GW share holders want more than that and would trim the company to make it more profitable, at the expence of the games.

[@dirtyhandskev]

I appreciate the dialogue here, but I feel like this entire conversation hinges on this idea that retail is a thing that is necessary and is still well ... viable. Maybe that just isn't the case anymore and if you want to not be a satellite independent GW store, maybe that looks like being a smaller, more niche focused store. Retail may no longer be the big player in wargaming as a whole and maybe the future looks like more wargaming clubs and pay-to-play spaces while GW has direct stores here and there. Think about it like this - how many record stores still have influence on the market? How many record companies are concerned with how well a record will sell in a store? how many of them are good indicators of what is popular and what is not? It is no longer 2002 and I'm honestly surprised wargaming retail is still a thing. my guess is it has to do with having play space to actually game in ... which seeing as how many games are shrinking to kitchen table size will most likely become less and less a thing. but at the end of the day a 'retail store' is not a social club and undoubtedly things are heavily leaning towards direct to consumer. That's not 3d printing or kickerstarter's 'fault' - this has been a thing across all industries. 3d printing and KS are a *result* of demand remember. I generally like what both of you guys have to say, but I can't help but feel like you guys aren't being aware of your bias here and you are going way out of the way to explain what might be happening when the answer is right in front of you.

[@HB2K-h8m]

I just don't see the evidence for this. The good independent tabletop retailers are expanding, the poor ones are fading away.

[@Dstinct]

Amazon has not killed good independent bookstores. I like shops where informed staff can guide my choices, and it would be nice to see product in person instead of hoping the 3d render I see on my computer screen is close enough to the product I will get when it shows up online.

[@ThePingasMightier]

I buy used models, I get models printed, I make models and terrain from scrap, and I don't buy more stuff unless I'm done everything that could be applicable to a particular project. All of these perfectly sensible activities are treated as sins by a lot of "wargame retailers", even if they can sell me supplies regardless. Generally, this means that I don't go to them. The board game cafe/bar format is the best possible "wargame" business format for players themselves. It's a flexible space that makes its money directly from what it provides to people who show up - a space to play, and the refreshments that are necessary to happily spend 4 hours playing in the same location. I dream of a world where this is the standard business model for wargames, instead of strip-mall retailers that charge 120% MSRP and kick you out if you show up with standees for your WIPs. The best part of the cafe/bar format is that it really doesn't matter WHAT games people are playing - as long as they show up to play whatever they're interested in, you and your customers are both happy. Unfortunately, if you have to sell what people play, your only real chance of survival will be primarily selling the same GW crap that everyone else structures their businesses around. Or, of course, leaning on TCGs because they bring in more money per square foot than wargames anyway.

[@sumerandaccad]

I think you touch on many interesting points in the video. But the important one missing is the fact most gamers aren't looking at Kickstarter or other funding sites for games to buy generally. Word of mouth might make some look at a game. Secondly, as you pointed out, follow-up products and distribution is none existent for most products unless it's from companies like CMON, Great Escape Games or similar. These smaller makers need to think about that and follow up with games magazine advertisements to grow the game and product base. And store owners need to keep abreast of games on these sites and buy into it for those not in the initial purchase opportunity.. GW also put out small games that production is limited and not followed up on. But, the games and figures can be used in their other games or used generally for other gaming systems.

[@Vyrullax]

Just like most dnd campaigns start in a tavern most new wargamers start from a hobby shop. The flgs is the tavern for wargamers.

[@patstevens9405]

The end state of this is what has happened to my two LGS's. If it's not GW/WOTC they are not interested in carrying it. As a Battletech and Call of Cthulhu/ Delta Green player I have no alternative but to buy direct or online.

[@zirrian]

There are some interesting and valid points raised here, that also came to my mind. The issue is, anything somewhat similar to GW's flagships will get compared to it, and measured against it. More "original" ideas can have a chance to live on their own (like Infinity or Malifaux), but if you make a rank and flank fantasy game, it will get compared to Warhammer Fantasy for sure, that being the biggest and most prominent of its kind. You also brought up Mantic - and in similar examples, I could bring OPR or Armies of Arcana, all coming from "Warhammer, but different", with AoA being a game where the designer got so angry at 4th ed he made his own ruleset that was actually pretty cool. But these either fade into obscurity (like AoA), or branch out to do their own stuff (like KoW with its own lore or OPR with the generic ruleset fitting basically anything), while Warhammer usually remains, and people inevitably return to it - me included. Alternatives to 40k an WHFB/AoS are nice, I like them, but let's be fair, it's not easy to get others into it for the most part, especially in the Eastern side of the EU where shipping from the UK simply does not worth it (shipping cost, VAT, time), so best option for us is digital releases that we can just print at home without hassle (granted the printer is properly calibrated). This is even more true for games made in the US, where shipping costs and times are even worse. Aaaand...we don't have Warhammer stores here. The biggest wargaming stores carry lots of GW stuff of course, but you can buy Star Wars Legion, Malifaux, Warmachine now that it's coming back again, Oathmark...and maybe this is a perspective you were (and to be frank, most UK and US gamers) missing, that there's a big market in Europe that is not really well served. Which is somewhat odd, as lot of the paints (AK, Vallejo, Army Painter) are coming from here, but lately I noticed an increase in wargaming manufacturers steadily rising, tho they mostly do digital releases as it's the most economically viable - great example is Titan Forge in Poland, who do a decent range of models (fantasy inspired by Warhammer, but they had their own Bloodfields skirmish game as well, that had tournaments, cyberpunk minis with another ruleset, etc.), tho I see further synergy here that is not really discovered with the great plastic model manufacturers like IBG, Miniart (who moved from Ukraine to Poland recently due to the war), who could look into collaborating with some of the European file creators to make plastic models, but for some reason they don't. Not sure why, maybe this was discussed already, I don't know.

[@pezpengy9308]

thank God! back to the proper intro music!

[@liamfishwick2943]

Loved the last bearmeat final comment. Thats me with Lego. Love watching stuff about it, but only have a handfull of minifigs and will not buy and kits.

[@DreyXik]

The local stores in my area carry a bunch of non-GW games. They can afford to do this because they make enough money on 40k, AOS, Magic, and Pokemon, that they can take those risks. I don't understand people who talk about sticking it to GW. They ARE the rising tide. I own a 3d printer, if anyone is losing out on my money it's Wizkids and Reaper D&D miniatures. 3d printing exists as the next evolution of my hobby. It hasn't replaced anything I'm buying from GW.

[@aGentlemanScholar]

Regarding people who had bad experiences from the Battletech kickstarters: see continent of Australia

[@engineerpaul0073]

It seems that if you want to get into a system published by a small company through crowd funding, you had better be prepared to buy enough for multiple players and in anticipation of no more releases or even retail availability. The odds of finding random people that have the same game seem small. Also, as noted, there is so much effort put into the initial release that there is not enough personal and capital margin to expand beyond the initial release. ...or you could play historicals - you'll always be able to buy those miniatures, terrain, etc.

[@liamfishwick2943]

I feel that Dark Age and Wrath of King was actually killed because of Kickstarter. Cos CMON dropped them to rather do more FOMO Kickstarter products than trying to grow an actually IP.

[@DarkZergkill]

They laser-focused on the NA - market with those. They were borderline impossible to get outside of that market, had to be imported directly from CMON in the US. As someone who was interested in both games (and thinks WoK has some rules other games NEED to copy, because there is some good shit in that rulebook), it was a nightmare to get hold of anything. That entire 2nd wave of WoK might as well not exist at all. Frustrating as hell. The only way I ever got a glimpse at Dark Age was through Ash' videos here. :/

[@Dstinct]

@@DarkZergkill That's funny because I finished off the last of my Shadow Caste by importing it from Germany to Canada after the game went OOL.

[@vocenoctum2046]

It's funny since the last couple months have been odd for games for me. Infinity N5 and Warcrow are certainly not small indie, but they also seem very constrained (mini wise) by the size of the company (I'm just not seeing the benefits of Siocast vs following the Archon path and building up plastic). I just don't see CB expanding in ways they need to. Meanwhile, I also just got my Cursebreaker and can see Relicblade continuing on it's path for a long time without worrying about going too nuts. It'd be neat if he could expand, but I also don't want to lose the "Sean-ness" of the game. Meanwhile, GW is so random in it's successes/ misses, I don't know what to think.

[@jdh6894]

I’d be curious if there is industry lingo for someone like me. I started tabletop gaming with a super indie RPG, started GMing having never played an TTRPG. Never played 5e because it felt so intimating to “do it right” according to online talking head and every other player bringing baggage to the game. The same has happened as I have come to wargames. Was attracted by Kill Team to skirmish games, then found the indie scene after looking past GW as quick as I could because of my experience with TTRPG’s and the thriving indie scene. My algorithm is full of indie gaming stuff, DIY focused crafters, etc. It’s gotten to the point where I have a hard time understanding or conversing with folks bought into GW and fawning over balance dataslates. I’m in a super niche hobby and still the divide seems to be growing between GW and “the other” and it’s hard to know how to support the FLGS when all they sell is GW and as described here, GW is becoming more and more entrenched. It’s also hard that GW seems to intentionally make their kits harder to work with anyone else due to scale differences and sprue design. More and more it feels like you are in or out.

[@indiewargame]

Super interesting. Would loved an additional 30 min of that conversation 🙂👍

[@mikewilliams4443]

The most important limited resources are a) time and b) money. With so many demands on those two very limited resources (jobs, family, rent, food, sleep, other hobbies) people have a very limited ability to play tabletop games. So even if there are many really cool ideas for games out there, they can’t play everything that looks cool, so they will tend to consolidate to a few of the biggest, most popular and widely available games that they can easily find someone else to play.

[@merylstrep5933]

I’m driving up from Chicago to Toronto on Friday for a leafs game for the first time. I hope to visit Lords of War and hear him talk some trash!

[@MrBanditoRazor]

I only get my BT stuff through the shops, but that's cause I don't do Kickstarter (especially cause if the KS works, it ends up on shelves anyway so...)

[@dolo429]

I think the thing is gaming is changing and always democratizing with crowd funding and 3d printing specifically. Games workshop has always had a high cost to entry. Personally I wasn't able to get into the hobby until I was an adult. Trench crusade also has endorsed kit bashing models and put out their rules for free. It's hard not to root for the underdog. I just hope they can turn around and invest that into more lore, art and eventually models on shelves in plastic.

[@dariostabletopminatures]

Great Great Video!

[@waardlafrance110]

Moi ce qui me pose le plus de problème en ce moment c'est le vieillissement de la commu car ça veut dire qu'on va finir comme dans le wargame 6mm avec que des vieux et des mecs qui fondent des figs dans leur garage pour améliorer leur retraite sans que le marché soit assez gros pour permettre à de vraies boites d'exister. Et y'a aussi la disparition des boutiques car les gens n'achètent plus que par internet et le très peu de boutiques qui restent ont tendance à devenir petites et ne plus vendre que du GW et du Asmodé.

[@jeancouscous]

C'est l'ordre naturel des choses. Ce qui n'a pas de renouvellement de joueurs vieillira forcement, ce qui veux dire tout les jeux historiques et consors n'ont aucunes attractions pour les plus jeunes de par leur nature, et finiront forcement par mourir. GW a son futur tout trace mais le reste.... c'est pas dit.

[@piotrjeske4599]

Paretto principke is real for all things . People want to play a game others play. And GW games, especialy w40k , are the popular thing. So it is easier to sell wing for not Sang Guard, then "invent" something new.

[@threeohm]

There is no guarantee something you Kickstart will actually deliver as promised or at all. So if I am going to pre-fund a game I'd want $1.5 to $2 of value for each $1 I invest. Otherwise I'd just buy it once it's developed and get a credit card refund if the transaction is not completed. That extra "value" I get as a KS investor/backer is the risk premium for funding that game.

[@Perkustin]

Good video despite not being about Trench Crusade or Old World. An interesting parallel is how videogames have used kickstarter and what typically happens when they succeed. They may provide the initial product direct to consumer when they succeed but more often than not the real outcome is a publisher buyout or attracting VC (often sneakily to retain Indie credibility) so they don't need to Kickstart anymore. Star Citizen is a notable exception but i only mention that as a don't@me.

[@PMMagro]

When can I order my Trench Crusade models from Forgeworld?

[@Jeremus717]

I recently took the plunge to get into Infinity at N5, and Mailifaux. I simply bought enough pieces for two factions that I was personally interested in for both so that I can either play with my wife, or potentially get somebody at my LSG interested. But I absolutely agree that it has been a heck of a hard time getting away from the all GW All the time mentality around the hobby. For me they just priced me out plain and simple.

[@normtrooper4392]

GW are incredibly clever by managing to do the one thing no one wargame company could: get non-wargaming media that gets people into their eco system. No other company comes close to being able to convert IP into value. Even people who 3D print their armies, are still mostly making stuff in the shadow of GW IP.

[@keikan300]

While Kickstarters are a great way for smaller projects to get launched... I tend to not back them because of then usual backlog, where you wait a long time to actually see anything, and then you end up having to pay high shipping and of course there are the delays. By the time you get the product, the interest has all but disappeared.

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

Or is fixated on the next big Kickstarter. It does seem like we’re always living for the ‘next thing’ these days and not enjoying what we have.

[@vocenoctum2046]

Yeah, assuming it's delivered, somewhere near on time, then folks paint/build/whatever and now you've got to find folks to play with that may not even remember they kickstarted it too. Trench Crusade doesn't interest me, but it's got some hype currently. It's got rules and mini-agnostic-ish, so if it can keep folks going until delivery and then provide the next step, maybe it'll go somewhere. Wish it the best.

[@Anchises]

@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames We're so hyper-targeted by advertising in every aspect of our lives. The world wants us excited to buy the next thing rather than making the most of the current thing.

[@KrisHyre]

Really good conversation. I love that there are more indy games getting their chance to be funded and get their darlings produced, but established businesses using the Kickstarter model to remove the middle man retail game store out of the equation and go direct to consumer is troubling and hurtful to our FLGS's. I do wish that established companies would stop using it in that manner, but Kickstarter makes their cut of the money that way too, so I doubt they will change that themselves.

[@MrHaicken]

In my neck of the woods GW and Wizkids D&D have dominated the minis sections of a gaming/hobby store for about the last five years (since the launch of X-Wing 2nd ed). Any further monopolization in the Brick-and Mortar space by GW is just finishing off the last few holdouts (I've seen stores dropping WizKids D&D minis recently due to inceasing numbers of peg-warmers).

[@ronaldramirez5601]

The problem for me, it's the small market that exist for other brands or games in my country. I'm 3d printing because it's the only way to get something cool but doesn't cost me one eye because of import/export taxes. It's the sad truth. The economy it's not so hot anymore.

[@Kalakmol]

It’s options. Ones we never had before and things I’m grateful for as a hobbyist with over 25 years in the running. I grew tired of Games Workshop’s practices and insane prices. I get more for my hobby dollar going with Indy games. Wish more people would expand their horizons rather than being brand loyalists just because. I don’t expect LGS to carry the stuff except maybe the books. And that’s fine for me. I can get what I want printed or print it myself. The store still gets my supplies dollars.

[@crann777]

Absolutely. A handful of generic minis can stretch out to myriad indy games, and all you need for a new system is a $30 rulebook (less if they offer PDFs).

[@itsallfunandgames723]

Relating to the matter of Kickstarting a wargame, I'm of the opinion that Song of Ice & Fire started up WAY smoother than Battletech: Clan Invasion, with CMON doing a very good job delivering the pledges and then moving into stores pretty rapidly with product. Catalyst had long delayed delivery and long delayed arrival in stores, not horrible, but not nearly as good a job as CMON did. I think customers can be patient and take on things when they arrive after a Kickstarter gets all sorted out. ASOIF has been a pretty successful venture for CMON, but Battletech is a bigger GAMING brand, and it's a much more accessible game in gaming stores due to the pricing (for $25 you can join in the Battletech club) and the nature of army building (buy anything and play anything).

[@crazyvolucris]

Love this series 😍 great and i also watch chris series… always funny. Thank you and keep on going with this cool talks👍🏻🙌🏻😆

[@schooner2000]

I’d never back another Catalyst/Battletech KS. Endless issues and delays and poor communications. Seems to be their typical follow through for a few KS now. Cheaper and just as quick or even quicker via retail.

[@earnestwanderer2471]

So are we saying that tabletop is in a death spiral?

[@liamfishwick2943]

Steamforge games is a company to look at. They do do retail and their 5e mini products has more mainstream appeal (compaired to wargaming). And maybe they will retail Warmachine, they did do a plastic starter box.

[@jeancouscous]

Big wait and see for that, after the Guildball debacle they have a lot to proves again.

[@liamfishwick2943]

@jeancouscous didn't they make teams available via stl and updated the rules with the community's help...yes after they dropped the ball (pun intended)

[@SpannSr1970]

All restaurants are Taco Bell!

[@jeancouscous]

The horror

[@mattbrown5234]

I have no business experience, including with the LGS market. But one thing I hope game stores will learn and will be able to adapt to is: as a customer, the primary thing I need from an LGS is help finding other people to play games with, hosting games, and maybe having someone who can answer questions. I can order any of the physical products either of my two local stores sell for less money than it would cost me to buy it from them, and it’s more convenient. The physical product is the least important part of my LGS to me as the customer, I only buy it to help keep the lights on. I’m not sure exactly how you monetize that, but that’s what I’m looking for. Carry some models, sure. Keep paint in stock because that’s convenient to grab in person. Maybe start stocking 3d printer supplies. Maybe start printing and selling stuff locally. Let MtG keep the store in business. I just have a hard time imagining GW maintains its dominance when I can buy an FDM printer and STLs to proxy a whole army for basically the same cost as buying one army from GW.

[@jeancouscous]

You may listen to the podcast of the guest here, they talk about that subject a few time and you realize quickly that 3d printing is just as not viable as people think

[@mattbrown5234]

@ Thanks, I’ll check it out!

[@merylstrep5933]

Trench crusade actually hit 6 mil through backerkit/late pledge

[@fredricknovak1734]

Wait a tabletop youtuber not claiming Trench Crusades is the second coming...careful with those rational and reasonable takes.

[@AAhmou]

Strange, most YTers I watch share that take. GW ain't going anywhere and Trench Crusade both as a setting and as a game still has way too many problems.

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

Eh, Hyperbole makes the algorithm go round. I’d make way more money if I used more EXTREME WORDS.

[@fredricknovak1734]

@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames thats why I am and have always been a fan.

[@charlesramsey4247]

Not to sound like a gatekeeper but seeing the sheer amount of brainrot videos of some guy talking about base level 40k lore is pretty upsetting. Had this new guy at work who figured out I'm a huge Warhammer nerd come up to me like "What's that thing in Warhammer with the big wheel a guy sacrifices himself to get chained to?" and I immediately knew his entire exposure to the IP has been doomscrolling KZbin Shorts.

[@Filthyanimal9]

Thank you - haven’t laughed this hard in quite some time