Are MELEE units TOO STRONG?

Рет қаралды 8,105

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 72

@alfascav1754 Ай бұрын

Artosis, dont take this the wrong way, but when i hear you say a game is "fun" You have to understand, we have seen you playing video games. Accept that our definitions of fun and whatever you do on video games are maybe not the same thing.

@davidm2031 Ай бұрын

If artosis is having fun, his viewers aren't. He's a man of the people, he gives them what they want

@Mysterious-Stranger Ай бұрын

One thing about Melee units being fast. This actually has two consequences: - They can catch up to ranged units, so they can actually attack them (good) - They can cross the map very fast (not necessarily good) The thing about Wasps and Zerglings especially is that you get to totally dictate when a fight happens and easily and quickly punish a ranged-unit player who is out of position in a way that he cannot punish you back if you are out of position. This is a solvable problem. "charge" type abilities let melee unit catch up with ranged units in combat without letting them cross the map faster. Not to say all melee units need to be slower and have a "charge" type abilities, but then you can make the innately fast ones a bit weaker and the slow-but-with-charge ones a bit stronger and it actually opens up a bit of design space to differentiate units this way as well as keeping them more balanced.

@EmpressRTS Ай бұрын

One solution I imagine is through map design: creating spaces that can be used to reduce some surface area on small numbers of units or slow zones or whatever the case may be, and could be scaled up with being able to spend some resources to get a limited time map feature active or something like that. I don't know how much they plan to do with battle aces, but map design intricacies are definitely a route I hope they'll consider

@Frodonsake24 Ай бұрын

Great comment, very good point. And I'm afraid they're not gonna do that unfortunately... Too early to say but I really feel like they're going for the "one map" kinda game. At least make it change during the game like they eventually did with LoL for exemple. But I'm already bored with only having one map. They won't even make different skin for said mal I feel like which make me even sader. I dunno maybe I'm just too used to the classic style of rts.

@pencilswordfish Ай бұрын

Maybe bigger than unit types, but how are hard-counters in this game? Because that's the biggest problem that DKim created from SC1 to SC2. In SC2 you're less likely to be flexible with comps and solve things w micro because of how hard counters work or how good harassment units are or how narrow and niche some units can be. Everything in SC2 was too specialized. In SC1 everything can be a soft-counter, so you had more freedom, it felt more organic. I hope D.Kim doesn't port that same hard-counter philosophy from SC2 straight into this new game.

@cyan5752 Ай бұрын

Why all these new RTS have units that just look like toys? I don’t find them attracting in anyway

@jaho101 Ай бұрын

No blood and gore means that they don't have be rated for older audiences, less regulatory stuff to deal with.

@Jugger4242 Ай бұрын

because all of them are aimed at 12 years old children.

@РозаФатхутдинова-ю6ю Ай бұрын

Simple yet distinct shapes are better suited for rts unit designs. It is easier to recognize units in the heat of a battle and memorize them that way. It can even make it more intuitive to understand what each unit does. For example all blink units in Battle aces have those floating circles.

@Frodonsake24 Ай бұрын

Yeah like someone pointes out, I think it has to do with being able to target a wide audience without having to deal with restrictions. I dunno the exact restrictions surrounding it but ofc China is such a big market and a target they are aiming at and important for them to hit. Also, having recognizable units is also a factor but to me it's not the main purpose of such design.

@phoenixlich Ай бұрын

Back in the days of polygons (think nintendo 64) tanks and vehicles and such looked like toys because of hardware limitations. In 2024 tanks and vehicles and such look like toys because of creativity limitations.

@TifTif86 Ай бұрын

couldn't you just give an unit the ability to create a temporary wall, like sentry forcefield in sc2 or a spell that slow down the melee units so you can kite them?

@4everdex Ай бұрын

The way unlocks and monetization is in the game ruins it for me. What made me really hyped about the game was the way you and combine and experiment with different units and "decks". Now i cant even switch out every slot once without playing for days or weeks. I want to try out all the units, not grind hours and hours to unlock them... You dont even get money for unlocks from simply playing... Shitty monetization kills the game again. I would rather pay 15$ and get everything than this shit.

@eduardoserpa1682 Ай бұрын

There's also the lack of upgrades. Melee units usually have a power progression to make them stronger in a specific window of opportunity, and that's not a thing in Battle Aces. It will either be immediately very strong for the tier it's in, or it will be worthless past a certain point. Unless you get a specific higher-tier unit that helps it in some way, which is a different kind of problem.

@ManAtPogo Ай бұрын

Sooo.... I don't understand? Where are cracklings + defiler? Where is Flash?

@Caccac40 Ай бұрын

What about the following: - range units that have sharpnel type of projectiles that slow moving units but not large ones - smaller fast units that drop slowing explosive material or glue when they explode or move - casters that create slow zones - tank units with that do little damage but block units and create chaos in movement

@Red-wb5jj Ай бұрын

Air units counter melee units. In Age of Empires you have the triangle of speerman, knight, crossbows. In Battle Aces you could have the triangle of melee, ranged and flying units.

@Spazzfrom.1989 Ай бұрын

pehaps a unit that can put up and take down a small barrier

@Ccarroll88 Ай бұрын

Add an optional research tech that buffs worker bots health and gives them a small attack. or do what someone else said and change the map a little.

@CoolEtCetera Ай бұрын

You could give a selectable global spell that you can cast every minute or so... With effects like "Ensnare" to slow down the melees

@bentybursky858 Ай бұрын

for the love of god, why did they ake the units bounce around like SC2 units do

@justingagnier2871 Ай бұрын

I need a new PC for playing broadwar. Any recommendations what to get??

@martymcfly420mph6 Ай бұрын

Ryzen 9 5900x and RTX 4090 Gaming X Trio, 64 gb of RAM and Lian Li case with 10 fans minimum

@justingagnier2871 Ай бұрын

@martymcfly420mph6 are you being serious? I haven't been in the computer scene for a long time.

@forbesderek6738 Ай бұрын

@@justingagnier2871 hes memeing you can play starcraft on really shit computers

@martymcfly420mph6 Ай бұрын

@@justingagnier2871 sorry, yes I'm kidding lol. You can play Brood War on almost anything! You can play it on a laptop you found in an alley, it's such an old game now. Buy a cheap prebuilt gaming PC and it will play great. Or, if you feel like building a PC, go to a PC parts store and talk to the dudes there, they'll give you an idea based on your budget. You could run it on a super cheap computer.

@GavinSnacks Ай бұрын

brother anything better than a ti84 calculator can run broodwar

@acu6423 Ай бұрын

What if the melee units didnt focus on dps but various forms of tanking instead? Like if you had melee versions of sentries with their assist abilities or medics to mitigate damage or debuff enemies?

@Red-wb5jj Ай бұрын

I predict that Battle Aces will have a small fan base but won’t achieve the massive success that people might have anticipated or hoped for. The reasons for this are simple. People who want a classic RTS like StarCraft, WarCraft, Age of Empires, or Command & Conquer mainly want it for the story, the single-player campaign, and the immersion through interesting factions set within a world rich with atmospheric sound, music, and graphics. The story provides further immersion and identification possibilities. This is not a factor to underestimate, as players enjoy identifying with a hero, a faction, and the gameplay style associated with it. Additionally, classic RTS games offer a great deal of variety and diversity. This includes a range of different missions, procedurally generated maps, multiplayer modes, multiple factions, a wide variety of units, many different soundtracks, modding options, and, last but not least, various ways to showcase one's skill. Skill can be demonstrated through intelligent scouting, consistently monitoring the minimap, pattern recognition to predict the flow and location of important points on unexplored parts of the map, micro-management, clever tactics, smart strategies, effective economy management, smart walling, intelligent expansion, aesthetically pleasing or intelligent base building, and much more. Battle Aces lacks almost all of this. However, RTS has always thrived on this variety to reach as many target audiences as possible. So, the small target audience can enjoy the game, but let me make it unmistakably clear that I’m smarter-smarter than the developers-and can easily predict that this game won’t be a big success. It will not reach the player numbers of Age of Empires II or StarCraft II. It will fade into obscurity relatively quickly, and most players will wonder why, or attribute it to other reasons-none of which are the real causes or the true issues. These are the reasons and problems of a very small niche, and nothing more. So remember my words, and try to pass this feedback to RTS developers worldwide if you ever truly want to see a great new RTS. I’ll be proven right, and you’ll see it someday too, even if it takes 20 more years and 100 more subpar RTS games before this realization comes. You can ignore me and my arguments, but it will not help any of you. May the truth be with you.

@Broockle Ай бұрын

Slow melee units with charge or blink, or CC to slow or wall ranged units that want to kite.

@Chaogod1233 Ай бұрын

Do you feel like the monitization they went with isn't an issue? It sounds exactly pay to win

@Red-wb5jj Ай бұрын

So let's see what battle aces has. You cannot choose where you build your expansion -- decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> bad The locations for expansions and resource sources are very limited (good example: AOE wood and farms) -- decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> bad Maps are hand-crafted. Therefore they are well known from the beginning of each match. No map scouting needed -- decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> bad You hardly need to scout the opponent because you can see which units he can and will build -- decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> bad There are no map types; for example, you don’t start with construction units, a larger base, a more open or more closed map -- decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> bad The structure of the maps is very similar and therefore the strategies are always the same -- decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> bad You cannot manipulate the map by cutting trees, building walls, destroying rocks to change the situation in one match -- decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> bad Base building is limited to 1 structure -- decreased diversity and freedom of choice --> bad You cannot invest resources in static base defense like turrets and walls -- decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> bad You cannot choose between more than 8 units in one match -- decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> bad Units that don't belong to a faction, don't tell a story, seem to be replaceable, and do not create a unique, cool feeling -- decreased diversity --> bad The differences between the units are often not big enough (SC2 level of differences: Lurker, DT, Viper, Sentry) -- decreased diversity and playstyles --> bad You cannot build water units -- decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> bad There are no upgrades to make an investment in one strategy -- decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> bad You can hardly macro, because there are no production differences between the players (the only limiting factor are resources) -- decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> bad You have no player abilities like in AOM, C&C Generals, Stormgate -- decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> bad You have no hero with different abilities -- decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> bad You can choose between different units, but not between different factions with unique identities that let you feel something -- decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> bad You have no editor for modding -- decreased diversity, freedom of choice --> bad You don't need to care about which resources you gather and how you allocate your workers -- easier, but also decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> middle You don't have to make clicks for building workers, almost no clicks to building structures and upgrades --> easier, but also decreased diversity, freedom of choice and playstyles --> middle You can make runbys -- it's possible in most other rts --> good You can micro units -- it's possible in most other rts --> good You can build your own collection of units -- it's not possible in most other rts --> good You can build units that enable positioning play like with Siege Tanks in SC -- it's possible in most other rts --> good You can build flying units -- it's possible in most other rts --> good So, what conclusion would you reach when you weigh the pros and cons? Is Battle Aces a good or a bad RTS?

@bfmbassist Ай бұрын

Make a defensive unit with a swat team shield. Looks like a mule in starcraft 2 but with a shield instead of a mining arm. Slow, high armor, shield can move up and down like a depot in starcraft 2

@markototev Ай бұрын

Spellcasters to nullify them in one way or another.

@Frodonsake24 Ай бұрын

I think we could use some spellcasters regardless. I understand that it can make the game a bit more difficult but come on. They all game is design to let you focus of battles and controlling them. A few spells wouldn't hurt.

@markototev Ай бұрын

@@Frodonsake24 For me, the game is too samey due to lack of races and the units somehow feel the same, with the exception of mortars and very specialized ones. I can't describe it exactly, but it's a feeling more so than empirical observation.

@89Dienekes Ай бұрын

My initial thought was exactly: So they need the sentry for sc2, or some other casters that interact with speed, range, environment, etc.

@TheUnknownCollectorStore Ай бұрын

Not going to play anything that has been touched by David Kim.

@ruin9027 Ай бұрын

Battle Aces is still an awful name and it sounds like a mobile freemium title.

@Daren_PNW Ай бұрын

or a Windows 95 tank shooter game FREE with CD-ROM package

@DENIS_Biomech Ай бұрын

"Battle Asses" sounds like a great spiritual successor to "Dead or Alive" or "Rumble Roses" 😂😂😂

@しらこ-465 Ай бұрын

It also has the depth and monetization strategy of a mobile pay to win game.

@Frodonsake24 Ай бұрын

@@Daren_PNWyes, THAT

@ShumaBot Ай бұрын

And StarCraft sounds like a Minecraft clone, what of it?

@13loodySword Ай бұрын

"easy to get into" is a bit deceptive here. It's easy to learn, but the current progression and monetization system is extremely predatory and should not be accepted. If you play this beta you can unlock maybe 5 units of the almost 50 total.

@tylocrocket6111 Ай бұрын

1st. I've got chills

@MrRippis Ай бұрын

Wtf is sc2?

@infeza3255 Ай бұрын

maybe melee units should get the overclock?

@trailblazingfive Ай бұрын

Melee units are range units with 0 range, duh

@randomxgen6167 Ай бұрын

I think the bias to melee units is just the intended design. Knowing nothing about the game itself and only being a casual RTS enjoyer, everything about how a match is structured seems to be focused on having scrappy fights more than anything else. You know where your opponent's spawn is, you know where your opponent will be expanding, and the distance between bases seems pretty short compared to other games. You're basically in a constant state of combat without much room to maneuver, which necessitates using melee units to tie up or push against your opponent's melee units. Again, I know nothing about the game, but if melee units are oppressive then it's probably by design. I'm not sure how the devs plan to solve this problem because I'm not entirely convinced they see it as a problem that needs to be solved.

@Red-wb5jj Ай бұрын

Give me 100 Million USD and I build you the best rts in the world.