Are Modern Guitarists SPOILED By Modelers and Digital Gear?

[@ElijahGrae]

I produce, write and play in LA at pretty high level and have been in with some of the best. I ONLY say that to say the rooms I’m in don’t give a single sh*t about the gear. They/we care about the result. The amount of times I’ve used and seen others use an acoustic guitar part that was recorded on an iPhone (two iPhones for a stereo pair sounds shockingly great) would blow most gear nerds minds. If your desired end result is good music - the vibe, energy and performance will ALWAYS beat gear. I LOVE gear and have paid rent for many years in many rabbit holes so I get it! I’m writing this as potential encouragement for those who can’t afford or don’t have access to “high end” gear. Don’t let anyone tell you you can’t write or play great stuff without said piece of whatever gear. With love.

[@fives.]

This is big for me, I'm a gear nerd but the moment my creative process is impeded by needing a specific piece of gear, I change my approach instantly

[@ElijahGrae]

@ It’s such an interesting and delicate balance isn’t it!? Sometimes the tool inspires the creativity but usually the best tool is just being creative. After all these years I’ve really leaned into the resolve that a great idea should be able to stand on its own minus much technical wizardry or “frosting” lol. A good friend of mine and a very decorated song writer once asked me “are you trying to make cool shit or durable shit?”. Took me along time to understand the lesson in that but what a lesson it was. The songs that stick around can usually be stripped down to an acoustic guitar or a piano and still be amazing. But damn if it isn’t fun getting lost in the “maaaaybe if I had a 64 strat this would sound better!” 😂

[@davidroden3799]

In the early days, musicians and sound engineers did amazing things with very little gear. Today we take it for granted that we have dozens, if not hundreds of amp /cab / mic options on our pedalboards. The irony is that many of us are trying to recreate this or that iconic sound from the past. It’s important to avoid a digital arms race where we start to think that our setup is better because we have 300 hundred options and someone else ‘only’ has 200.

[@jaysmoreymusic]

I started with mics: 57 and MD421. Great learning experience. When we first had kids, I needed a way to play while they were sleeping, so I built an isocab. But once the Suhr Reactive Load IR came out, it was game over. IMO that tech is the automatic transmission of the amp world.

[@carlosmoraesUtube]

I don't think it's a matter of being spoiled. It's a matter of technology progress and convenience. For the home studio guitarist, playing a loud amp is rarely an option. Thankfully, technology has evolved enough to allow us to get a decent tone using IRs, using either a real amp with a load box or a modeler. Sure, the tone purists will say that it's not the same as mic'ing an amp. And they are probably right. But, for me, that process belongs in professional studios, where there's access to experienced engineers, great (and expensive) gear (mics, preamps, etc) and you can play a loud amp without getting thrown out of the house. In the end, gear doesn't matter. The end result is what matters.

[@nmcgregor1990]

I feel like its always beneficial to have knowledge of what mics sound good with what amp and what mic would be used to get the desired result. You can apply that knowledge when building your own presets in the digital modellers etc. Also can help you guage the quality of the captures and mic sounds in a device. Hope that makes sense 😅

[@gambitash166]

Dude we have kids, I could be called upon to clean vomit, scare monsters away or whatever else at any time. The majority of my home playing is playing through my Stomp on my favourite preset. If I'm feeling spicy I'll run my amp through the Captor X and plug in my full pedal board.

[@budgetguitarist]

It's funny how many different ways we can negatively frame "progress." We now have access to reasonable copies of almost every guitar sound. That means need to better understand tone and what we're trying to achieve. With all of these options, we need to up our game. I find this to be really, really fun. But I'm a keyboardist who plays guitar - I come from a synth background and I love having 1,000 different sounds.

[@chrisgmurray3622]

As far as I know, SM57's have an " inbuilt " presence boost or peak.Lowell George, of Little Feat, used one as a vocal mic often onstage, for the clarity and ability to cut through an onstage mix, not to mention flattering a male voice in his tenor range, to give brightness. Marshall plexi's through 4X12's, are sometimes a bit dark or dull, but were always mic'd up with the Shure ( sometimes with an added Neuman in studio).

[@vitaliistep]

Another point to using mics is that you won't sound exactly like anyone else (with modellers and IR's it's much harder). Also I think that experience is really helpful, when using digital emulations as well. That's why so many people consider Fractal units confusing and too complex I guess, as they have very little idea how to get a great guitar sound without digital devices.

[@picksalot1]

Getting a "good" tone on a Modeler can be quite a challenge, depending on how well the Presets have been curated, etc. I think there's a big difference between tones that are going to sound good in a Mix, and tones that sound good and inspiring when practicing or playing in a mostly solo setting. The settings for what sounds good on a real Amp are not likely to be the same when using headphones. Ultimately, the versatility and convenience of a Modeler works better for me.

[@jefflittle4427]

I bought a Royer 122 and a Royer Axemount mic clip and set it up with a 57 and have no phase issues. I blend in whichever mic I need more or less of and love the tone. Setting it off from the center of the cone is really just a preference, But it works for me. It also goes into a stereo BAE mic pre, so that doesn’t hurt.

[@Andy_Yates]

If you have options, use what the situation allows or demands. I really liked your mic recorded sounds but I also like your direct/digital tones. I have nice amps and mics, and I also use plugins and a quad cortex. We're lucky to have options with demanding schedules and regular responsibilities. If I'm doing practice, it's going to be the QC mostly because it's easier to balance volume with Guitar Pro audio or whatever I playing along with. If volume isn't going to disrupt the household, then I love using my amps

[@masonmatern8331]

Just food for thought… A lot of the pro studio guys (including Tom B, Brent Mason, etc.) sculpt their amp tone with a simple EQ pedal before their amp. That, the controls on their guitar, their hands and their ears are probably more important than the mics and studio gear. 🤷‍♂️

[@jackprice7828]

Fenton is an amazing long hair Doxy. For me the big difference with modeling vs amps is how easy it is to experiment and build your tone. Almost endless combinations of amps, cabs, mics, effects. That is NOT possible in the real amp world.

[@BlugubriousMusic]

I think the spark for this (mic on amp) was in the context of Tom Buk saying real is better than model/profile. I don't think it is even on Tom's radar that turning on and plugging into a digital piece of gear with a preset is even a thing. For you, it is (because for almost everyone, but Tom it is). I feel it gets missed that the mic on amp thing is indeed what a studio guy should expect in a pro-recording environment working on the biggest records. Live, it is way more likely to be a Sennheiser mic anyhow. In our home studios or bedrooms, it seems a non-issue to need the studio's industry standard. The word 'better' is moot here. I think it should be what am I trying to do with my setup?

[@Chris-u5u2x]

Nice playing today! Quick fingers!

[@johnnylayton1672]

Yes not just guitarists but everyone for the quantum leap in sensory fidelity offered by digital technology frankly since the late 1980s.

[@marc_leblanc]

I've gone digital since 2019 (Kemper user). I got a lighter solution due to MS and actually slowed down on gigging lately. As far as finding a sound, I would say I tweak just as much as I would with a mic and cab.

[@ScottGailor]

The 57/121 with the clip is the way to go.

[@spiraldrop4897]

Definitely spoiled in a good way. I just found some songs from 10 years ago and sm57 in the middle of cone sounds so fizzy that i inserted IR impulse in guitar group channel to make it normal😀

[@markinthemix6055]

Yes Yes Yes and l’m an only kid so l enjoy being spoiled. Old enough to appreciate it JC.

[@ZenoIV]

Why would you use a figure 8 mic in a home situation?

[@TitanCoach]

I'll stick with my FM3 as my primary. I do need an amp on every once in a while. I am borrowing one for now but may invest in something for those occasional old school gigs...

[@WillieHardmeatOfficial2024]

The strive for convenience has ruined society, this is simply one example of that fact

[@Thr3-Words]

FentOOON! FENTON! Come back here!!! *Cordy running into the distance in rubber wellies*

[@donmunson4802]

Underwelmed is the term I would use. I've been evaluating several of the current modelers. The Fender, Helix, Tonex, and Boss are the most versatile, both in options, and control layouts, but none of them have given me the warm clean basic amp tone that I need in order to build a realistic sound. They either can not or will not make the effort to create a clean amp tone that I need to build on.

[@Guitar_jd-w8x]

Imo, Amalgam Captures has beautiful clean tones for Tonex. The IK Media (Dumble) ODS Signature Collection as well. Amalgam, specifically the CRR MERC, Tone King, FNDR BFVRB and Two Rock captures. His JTM45 is excellent too.

[@muaddib667]

In that case, I must be spoiled because I don't have polio.

[@johnplaystheguitar123]

if short on time, modellers or desktop amps are best. whatever is the least barriers/blocks to just pick up and play. i find the nux mighty air the best. wireless. press a button. pick up a guitar. and away i go with my saved presets on it. if i only have 10mins 9mins and 59seconds of it is spent playing instead of setting up mics or anything.

[@Guitar_jd-w8x]

Regarding the FM3, buying the Austin Buddy presets made me far happier with my FM9.

[@pearsonart]

Modeling allowed you to spend those “10,000 hours” learning to play. The simple truth is that recording / engineering is another discipline altogether. Don’t make the mistake that one can cut corners and get the results you want. Use the 57 until you need something it doesn’t give you.

[@Wingman52]

The sound you have at the beginning of the video sounds great to me. I think sometimes the "digital" sounds sound a bit too hifi, too bright, too sculpted. The sounds in these cases are like the ones we hear on a fully produced record, where someone has spent countless hours adding effects and compressors or whatever, and getting them perfectly placed in the pocket of a stereo mix. Real guitars and amps don't really sound like that, and maybe it makes more sense to get a sound you like coming out of the speaker in an amplifier and once you like that put a good mic (or 2) in front of it. I think it's going to sound good, it's going to sound like you playing that guitar through that amp, not someone else playing their guitar, through their amp, and their pedal board. Maybe best to go for what you sound like.

[@daniyalahmed97]

Liked for Fenton. ❤

[@nbarton11]

Download Auto align 2. I can’t recommend this enough. I use a much shittier ribbon mic with my 57/or 414 and when you get the phase alignment right it will sound 110% better. You will still need to cut lows and possibly boost highs, but getting phase right will drastically improve the sound. Flipping phase doesn’t always fix the issue. If your Royer is 30 degrees out of phase with your 57, flipping the phase will just invert your out of phase signal to be 180 degrees out of phase still, it won’t do anything to align it. Get the demo and try it. Totally worth it to use

[@BillySoundFarm]

Why are you micing up the amp at all if you're just playing at home?... If you just "have 10 minutes to play" at home, why are you recording it? ... ... And I 100% get what you're saying about being spoiled by the digital gear, me too. My convenience expectation is way too high for a lot of analog gear these days.

[@toddcarroll2703]

There is life in a mic.

[@rohnleidigh213]

Yes, players are definitely spoiled with the ease of being able to dial in the 'perfect' cookie-cutter sounds on demand... Having both options, I still prefer the adventure of experimenting and sculpting my own sounds the old fashion way... and I'm always happier with the end result as well. To each their own though.

[@vg-tube]

Though a Royer is obviously a "nice to have" piece of gear John... An SM57 will 100% do the trick, hands down! Thousands of our favorite albums guitar tones were recorded this way - a 57 lined up at the cone edge, about 8-10 inches back. This is just a reality. Keep it simple, perhaps sell your Royer *as you clearly are not enthusiastic about it) and put that cash towards something else, like a real transformer-based preamp. That will def. get you great amp tones.

[@lancenunez8252]

Exploring new sounds is exploring new sounds. The modeler, the amps, and the mics are tools…. A means to an end. I feel incredibly fortunate to be able to have the wealth of tools in the digital space… my wealth would not afford it otherwise…

[@jammer777]

Yes, modelers are wonderful! My FM3 combined with my HX FX gets more use than any of my tube amps.

[@escargotomy]

Well. I've been playing since I was a teenager in the early 80's and can tell you from experience that it has become a lot easier to get a great sound at reasonable volume levels. In the 80's and 90s you needed a multitude of stomp boxes or even racks which were just not affordable to most of us to sound like our favorite guitar players. On top of that, while tube amps do offer a level of organic warmth and natural distortion they can get ridiculously loud for most situations. These days I have a 2x10 cabinet for when I need it which may be 2 or 3 times a year, but for most situations my Spark or Katana is all I need.

[@lenwhatever4187]

If all one listens to is fake modeled sound, it becomes hard to tell the difference between real and modeled. On the other hand, if one listens to real sound all the time, as in amp in the room or better, on stage, one has a lifetime to chase that sound with mic setup or modelers. The problem with modelers seems to be they are chasing the sound after the mic rather than the experience of being in the room. Over the last few years (60 years is just a few) engineers have been trying to capture what it sounds like live.... does it make sense to model the best those engineers have been able to do rather than aim for better? The idea that a modeler has mic placement just seems wrong to me..... Of course the whole idea of using IR technology is to be able to _record_ something, not make something sound like what is heard. A proper amp modeler should not use IR at all but rather seek to reproduce the venue experience.... maybe minus the crowd noise ;) Anyway, modeler use for quiet practice or as required by a venue will only become more prevalent as time goes by, not less. I would suggest using analog modeling over digital will give us all new musical sounds that can become what we are used to in the years to come.

[@mixodorians12]

Capturing the sound in the room? Way too many variables.. from audience numbers, walls, floors, stages..cables, PA system.. litterally no one defending analogue amps is saying amps are great..but they have to copy the real sound in a room. If fake modelled sound..is as good as the real thing, who cares if it's real or not....unless you are an amp investor or a hipster.

[@lenwhatever4187]

@@mixodorians12 Yes, way too many variables. Modeled sound is not as good or the same as the real thing. It comes very close to what one hears in a recorded track, at least for short bursts, but any recorded music is not the same as live. If one finds models sound pleasing, it does not matter, use it. I would suggest however, that copying a sound one has already heard does not lend itself innovation. rather the endemic sameness and deadness of music in what are touted as top ten. Do we need expensive name brand tube amps? No, not at all. There are many solid state amplifier circuits and even digital models of amplifier circuits that one can experiment with to come up with new sounds. However, as good as IR technology is at replicating a recorded sound, it does not lend itself to innovative sounds. Best save it for reverb when needed. My personal power amp is a cheap class D amp (no D does not mean digital) with analog preamp circuitry that is tube like but still different from "real tubes", it just gives a smoother breakup than BJTs do.

[@iresentdoingthis1550]

Having worked in a studio and live sound, and experimenting with extrordianarily complex pedalboard the Helix / Helix Native gets me playing / practicing and experimenting more and A/B ing the recorded sound it is virtually impossible to hear the difference. So indeed we are spoiled and unfortunately many don't know and / or appreciate how these tools make us play more which at the end of the day is a blessing 🤘

[@mixodorians12]

Every other day now.. it's a modeller discussion. Back and forth..back and forth. How much revenue has this topic given you? You paid off your mortgage and student fees yet?

[@kevinp_25]

❤ Fenton

[@Twominutedevotions]

I would really be interested in a video series where you watch and respond to Jim Lill’s videos about amps, guitars, speaker cabinets, and microphones. I think there’s a lot of data there that could prove quite useful in the journey you’ve been on with this. For me, I can understand why people like Uncle Larry have strong opinions on this. Nothing in his life requires him to limit volume. He never plays on a silent stage. But do I think that we’re spoiled or that we’re missing anything? No. It still is an art and skill to dial-in a tone that’s going to sit right in a mix. The magic of human interaction with music is still there. It still takes a human ear to make it right. And that will never change.

[@justingreen8006]

Not spoiled as long as a person is grateful and uses the tech advancement to help them... To use the freed up time to advance further in improvement.

[@dinadams]

Can’t understand why you went straight out and bought a £1200 mic, just start experimenting with a single SM57 and go from there.

[@theelderskatesman4417]

Yes.

[@BOSSenjoyer]

Back when actual studios did all the recording and nobody had a DAW, they did it for you. You wanna be an engineer or a musician?

[@DaveMacara89]

doggo

[@jimicunningable]

I got back into guitar/bass because I got @#$% by injuries soon followed by C19. So I got traveler ax's & a cheap multiprocessor/DI for each. Now I'm back to having a nice rig. BUT, I groove pretty damn hard on those lie-down-in-bed cheap ass rigs, just because I spent so much time with them & dialed them in. ..obviously prefer my nice rigs, just think that's noteworthy. HF. GL.