Are occult authors just in it for the money?

[@RyanEdmondsMyLifeAsRyan]

Thorn, we have all benefited so much from your work. No author should EVER feel the need to justify making money from writing... go out and MAKE LOADS OF MONEY! Be abundant. Money is just an energy of value exchange. Your wisdom is of value to us. The Craft teaches fertility, and through that, the abundance of Spirit. Never feel the need to justify how your marvelous mind and amazing knowledge can intelligently work the system :) May Great Mother continue to bless you abundantly... and I hope being a best selling author brings you years of joy and fulfillment, and yes, even riches :) BB from South Africa 🇿🇦 ❤️

[@OldManFerdiad]

There used to be an old joke "What's the difference between New Age and Pagan?" with the answer being "A nought or two on the end of the price", when talking about pagan events compared to personal development, mind/body/spirit, New Age type events where you can expect to pay hundreds for a single day. Usually pagan events, workshops etc are run so much on collective unpaid or very low paid community endeavours and yet still you get people complaining that they must be somehow fleecing participants. I think the way around this is to be very transparent with the amount of money it all costs and to have the kind of conversations you are instigating with this video and building discernment around the people, organisations and power structures involved in groups, publishing and events. In the meantime, toss a coin to your witches ;-)

[@jackhunter929]

$200 dollars is enough for a months worth of groceries for a single person (generally)

[@BlackDoomsOpinion]

No, it's not enough. I know because I have to live off of that much every month.

[@PatriciaKanavy]

This is a great topic. I also work in publishing, including 9 yrs at a university press, and I can vouch for the fact that authors are not “cashing in” on their books. They have and keep their day jobs. Writing a book is a labor of love. 🦉📖💖 Anyway, I really appreciate your thoughts and beliefs on money and magic.

[@drawingKenaz]

I work at a university press too, in journals! Yeah, academic authors *definitely* aren’t making money. Most of them are paying it, or their universities/societies/external funding are paying. Academic journals are big business that primarily benefits publishers. 😎

[@joanna_vanderhoeven]

I've had people who, when confronted about pirating my books, say that I should be grateful that I'm popular enough to be pirated. It's free marketing, which may lead to people actually buying the book later. Or the amount of television or newspapers who want a chunk of my time, time away from my work, to make their own buck on it, but who won't compensate me for it. I feel like I should be the one to decide what I get compensated for, and what I choose to give away for free. Just like anyone else would want. But some people just don't see it that way until you point it out to them, like "hey, how about you just give away 400 - 800 hours of your work for free and then see how you manage to pay the bills". Say I write on average for 3 hours a day, x 5 working days, x 10 months of the year. That's 600 hours of work a year, a lot of which I'm not getting compensated for (blog posts, articles for magazines, etc.) The work that I am getting compensated for (royalties, mostly) allows me to take a holiday from my work. It doesn't pay the bills. Then there's the marketing hours on top of that, which you don't get paid for either. I'm so glad for my Patreon community, because with their support I can continue my writing (including my blog), making videos and getting better equipment to express myself in various forms of media (including photography and music). Were it not for them, I'd have given up a long time ago! And even the income from my Patreon community doesn't pay the bills - it helps me to pay for subscriptions to music websites which are licensed for KZbin play, it allowed me to buy my drone, buy a new microphone/headset for editing videos, and is currently being put aside to buy a new camera.

[@WormwoodCrow]

That you use your Patreon money to fund your pagan event trips is a a good example of how exposure pays for exposure to further pay for exposure. It's something that I've tried explaining to students who would sit disconnected in class convinced that they would make it big on KZbin or TikTok. A lot of time, resources, and unpaid work go into popularizing yourself enough so that you [maybe down the line] get paid just enough to afford to pay for more exposure on another medium. And that's relatively successful. But kids (and ultimately adults) expect that the mansions they see a tiny fraction of these social media stars living in is the norm. These kids never factor in the large number of hours (factoring would be hard if you don't pay attention in class) that influencers spend desperately trying to grease enough wheels simultaneously to even break even. The gamers who barely make enough to pay for their gaming subscriptions or equipment. The travel vlogger who has to score the cheapest airfare. It reminds me of an episode of The Big Bang Theory when Penny wanted to start her own business make hair accessories. When Sheldon asked about her manufacturing costs, she told him how much the supplies cost and how quickly she could make her product. Turned out she could pay herself $5.19 per DAY. As you said, people are really bad about discussing finances, hence very bad with money in general. If only our delusions of grandeur paid the bills.

[@drawingKenaz]

Yep! If it’s enjoyable, then it’s worth it. But if the goal is just to be wealthy, it’s almost always more efficient to just work a straight job. My young students all wanted to be KZbinrs, and I would say, “That’s awesome! Do you have a channel?” And they never did. It was always going to happen once they “built a following” somehow somewhere else. Most didn’t understand the idea of building something over time (because we don’t show people that part), and having to work for free initially.

[@drawingKenaz]

And, to be clear, I don’t think work for free is acceptable. But it *is* the system in many industries, and that’s how wealth perpetuates wealth and folks with less resources are usually just excluded.

[@WormwoodCrow]

@@drawingKenaz Yes! The whole unpaid internship paradigm is the type of "opportunity" set aside only for those with the resources to work for nothing.

[@WormwoodCrow]

@@drawingKenaz I appreciate that your videos discussing your writing process usually add the importance of writing some amount whenever you can, and not just relying on an undisturbed afternoon in front of the writing medium, hot beverage steaming next to a sleeping cat, as raindrops make their way down your window. Labors (of love, even) follow the fourth dimension, while the above Instagram moment is trapped in two dimensions. People need to stop trapping their happiness in 2D moments.

[@robynwroot2460]

I live in the middle Tennessee area and really want to go to pagan festivals but since I'm from further north I have no idea what's around here. They all have different names. If someone can assist that would be awesome

[@russellstephen6998]

What great points. I'm at a point where I've realized that I like having a regular job... at least as much as anyone. I always thought I would be some freestyle content creator artsy type but honestly its too much pressure. I like a routine and having a job that I have to be at at a certain time facilitates that. I struggle with depression and the thought of making myself wake up to make content all day that I'm, more often than not, not getting paid for really overwhelms me. I'm in a position of still living with my parents so, for now, I enjoy working 20-30 hours a week for a paycheck and then reinvesting that money/ my extra time into creative pursuits that one day may yield a side income. I'd also love to hear more about why you left teaching, Thorn. That may need to be a patreon vid if it's too personal. I graduated with an english degree and I'm always curious about other humanities majors experience in the field is like. Thanks for the vid!

[@francesbillinghurst]

As an author myself, I find it almost laughable when people accuse me of "cashing in" when what they actually want is something for free. Ironically, it is often these same people who will happily spend exorbitant prices at Mind-Spirit-Psychic fairs while my royalty cheques barely cover the cost of takeaway coffee!!

[@francesbillinghurst]

Even Janet Farrar/Gavin Bone state that they make very little from their books - it is only on the lecture circuit where they can comfortable pay their bills.

[@msthornback7935]

Maybe a pretty wonky question, but is it hard for pagan institutions, academics, events to get grants? Are grants considered wrong to get get?

[@brendabooprather]

Thanks for the video :-) Love that you addressed this subject. So many people think that the authors are rich and uppety, and that is not the case. Thanks for being grounded :-) Blessed Be

[@AngeloNasios]

Yes while todays attitudes largely stem from Christianity, it does not mean Christianity invented those attitudes outright. The issue of correct livelihood and how we acquire money justly is universal across many cultures. There is a Delphic Maxim for example that instructs to "acquire wealth justly" and right livelihood is part of the noble eightfold path. In a Greek context, there is a negative attitudes towards what Plato called "beggar priests" that would go door to door to rich people's homes selling spells, trying to persuade the rich person that the gods have provided them with a power based on sacrifices and incantation. I know you probably know all this because of you are in graduate school if I recall correctly. My main point is that Christianity is carrying on a very ancient non Christian attitude towards the topic of money with their own twist on it that makes it "Christian" I have noticed too often in the Pagan community the idea that Paganism is the antithesis of Christianity so for example, if Christianity teaches money is messy well then if think money is not messy then I am Pagan... Could you address this issue in a video? What are your thoughts on this observation.

[@AngeloNasios]

Oh yeah there is no money in authoring books in the Mind Body Spirit industry. A royalty check lets me treat myself to something nice but does not pay the bills

[@jasonh3197]

Let's talk about facts: Before the advent of the capitalistic system , 94% of the world lived in extreme poverty. 200 years later , only around 8% of the world population live in extreme poverty. "most people" don't live mostly bad. We are the most privileged Humans to ever live. Let's enjoy and recognise that.

[@StaceysStash]

I don't understand why people feel the need to suggest you are publishing a book to get rich. What about books for school? They have to be written by someone for kids to learn right?! So why is it any different from someone publishing a book about Wicca or Witchcraft to inform and teach others?! To me it's literally the same concept!!

[@svn6968]

It’s a slippery balance between taking a vow of poverty and ending up a pagan Joel Osteen. I’m not sure the numbers are high enough to become a pagan Joel Osteen, or a Scientology. But I think the idea of rejecting compensation and charging for initiation is also wanting to prove its not a cult or scam.

[@PumpkinMozie]

lol, it’s funny how you never see Christian authors being accused of “just doing it for the money” or trying to swindle people. Not trying to hate on Christianity but there is definitely a double standard. Also, the hate towards Silver Ravenwolf is so unfair. Her books really are not bad. Not flawless, but no book is.

[@maudality6998]

The one who thinks that authors win a lot of money never approached the editing and book industry... esp. In a niche like pagan and witchcraft. Come on guys!

[@samanthacameron4805]

I like that you pointed out all the benefits (financially and mentally) of having a day job. I hear so much about how being your own boss and being an entrepreneur is the only way to be happy or creative. Or successful. As if working for someone else auto means you don’t have autonomy. I’m fortunate enough to have a job I enjoy w/ spectacular benefits and perks. The reality is that job allows me the ability to do and participate in the things I truly love knowing that my basic needs are fully met. This comes from financial stability and work/life balance. It’s allowed me the time and means to grow my practice.

[@drawingKenaz]

I had a conversation with a student last week who was wrestling with “getting a job” or “being an artist,” and I told her “you can do both.” That’s a thing I think we don’t say enough. It’s not either or. We have this bizarre notion that people with “day jobs” or who work for others somehow don’t also have creative pursuits or passions or opportunities, and that’s such nonsense.

[@aquamarine18]

Yeah... writing is so much work, and I don't think it pays the bills really in most genres/areas. My last article was in a journal that is housed within a significant American university press, and I don't make a cent unless a *lot* of copies are sold. If a book costs me 30$ CAD at the shop, and that is somehow divided between material costs (paper, glue, etc), the publisher's staff and overhead costs, the bookstore's staff and overhead costs, the costs of promotion of the book, the shipping cost of getting the book from the publisher to the bookstore... where exactly do people think the fortune is coming from that they accuse authors of making?

[@AstralLadyTarot]

Labour of love! Thanks for this video

[@awitchbetwixt2203]

My time is finite, as is everyone else's, and it has value and worth. If I am going to be doing labor for someone, I expect my time to be compensated because I could have used that time to do something else-for myself, for someone I care for, etc. Money is just a measurement of how much I value my time for the labor asked for. I could ask for baked goods instead if I wanted to, though I can't pay my rent with a loaf of bread. Money has a level of versatility. If someone wants to do things for others for free, that's their prerogative, but it shouldn't be an expectation. Anyway, loved the video and agree. And ditto, there is something very comforting about having a steady day job and knowing there will be X dollars in your account every Y weeks. Tried being a freelance writer for a bit, it did not work.

[@mindyroberts5034]

I support the authors, it seems more like the publishers are the ones taking advantage when I see the uninformed dreck they are turning out from "trending" persons.

[@maudality6998]

I thought that money was a taboo only in France! Great topic!

[@reverendphillsschoolofmaji383]

I totally understand what you're saying. I am dealing with this now as I am moving my craft into a more public light. I am dealing with some people who are very harsh about me charging for services. I am an ordained priest and a teacher. I have a hard enough time with what/how much to charge for which service I do. So yes money can be bad or good

[@thebellaluna]

Good one, Thorn! Thanks for sharing! 😁✨🌟✨👍

[@drawingKenaz]

Thank you Sabrina!

[@whangbar]

Reading tarot for a living is exhausting, btw.

[@drawingKenaz]

Totally! I did it for a while, and had enough pretty quick. Those who pull it off are rock stars.

[@whitebirdification]

Judeo-Christian Clergy often receive a salary, a home (or reduced rent), tax breaks, free parking... I am a working artist/witch, 7 days a week. I bust my ass. I'm cool to receive cash for my work. I earn it, just like my brother the rabbi. He makes 6 figures. I don't

[@TabithaReminiec3399]

Flying, Don't forget the fact that their taxes & bills are paid by a not for profit exemption

[@whitebirdification]

Hey, I’m not mad about it! He works really hard, and always picks up the dinner check 😂

[@TabithaReminiec3399]

@@whitebirdification I was not reffering to Judism ( Rabbis) I was speaking of Ministers, Pastors & Priests

[@gastronomist]

It's because you're not a real with unless you're a professional witch.

[@drawingKenaz]

That attitude is definitely out there! I think a lot of people wrote books because they see it as a way to validate their practices and assert their experience in their communities.

[@gastronomist]

@@drawingKenaz Getting paid makes one a fourth level priestess.