Are Internet Witches Practicing a Fundamentally Different Witchcraft?

[@russellstephen6998]

The impulse to “discover it for yourself,” really seems to echo throughout so many aspects of human nature. As you were talking, I was reminded of an article about the phenomenon of vaccine skeptics wanting to “discover for themselves” what worked, in terms of a cure. The argument being made was that actually you do need to trust other peoples findings, to an extent, or humans, as a race, will never make progress. I know religion and virology are entirely different topics, but that’s why I find it so interesting that the same human impulse can be found in each sector. Thanks for the video ❤️

[@reddwytch]

I dipped into Instagram for a while, but found - aside from the dominance of selfies and images of quaint witchy aesthetics (which must have taken hours to first set up and then clean up) - there was a lot in the way of gatekeeping memes and woke politics. I'm left-wing and always have been, but I loathe being told what I must believe or do in order to 'be a real witch'. Especially by people who are thirty years younger than me and living in an entirely different continent. I didn't like the vibe at all. I haven't bothered with TikTok, apart from in passing with the incident of plagiarism of Matt Auryn by a young Tiktoker. Generally the less depth of attention a medium requires, the less genuine substance I feel it can offer likewise. The easier it is to fall into lazy simplistic thinking and failure to really do anything of meaning. Performative witchcraft.

[@Myke_thehuman]

Not sure what you mean by woke politics..I hear about that a lot & it’s never from left wing people. But there’s a lot of just dumb takes online if that’s what you meant. Like eating meat is racist. That one just blew my mind. But those are often called wokescolds basically people that are just looking for stuff to get upset about. Which you’ll find no matter where you go online. Anyway the fact that you said woke politics does sound pretty right wing.

[@lasantuzza777]

you took the words right out of my mouth! nicely put.

[@brigittaalbares3417]

Sorry for the novel--this is such an interesting topic to me because I've really never had irl witch community. Within the online community I feel like there's two main factions tho. Helpful background: I'm an elder Millennial myself; I discovered Wicca back in the late 90s when I was a young teen, stopped practicing for a couple decades, now back again but in a more general Pagan way. I do almost no irl meetups; basically my whole witchcraft community is Facebook and KZbin. The two inner online communities from what I've seen are Witches who are there for spells and Witches who are there for meaning. The spells focused witches tend to more often be the ones interested more in asthetics but that's absolutely not true for every individual. But they're not necessarily into nature or gods or ancestral roots, they're here to increase their own personal power, which isn't necessarily bad. It does seem to lead to being really light on the research though, because to them it doesn't matter. They're not looking for why, they're looking for how. But there's also a huge sub-community that are there for Meaning, Religion, Connection, Community, Roots, Tradition. This has lead to a huge upsurge of interest in the traditions of their ancestors and now I see people in groups identifying as Slavic Witches, Norse Pagans, Rootworkers, Saxon Pagans, etc. Plus the Occultists and Chaos Magicians. It feels like there's so much MORE than there used to be. Back in the late 90s, at least here in the Midwest of the United states with the books of Cunningham, Buckland, and Ravenwolf, it felt to me like there was Just Wicca. Different kinds sure, but that's it. There were the Wiccan God and Goddess and Wiccan Circles and the books didn't even bother to mention that they were specifically about Wicca, because of course they were. There was Only Wicca. At least in the books--I didn't really have either online or irl community back then. Now there's so many magical and pagan paths and it's SO NICE. And they have to self identify both online and in their blogs and videos and books, so people know who they're talking to. But there's also often a genuine desire to make sure everyone is respecting everyone else's different traditions. Is that practice or deity part of a close tradition? What myths should I read to better understand this? Where can I find good resources or teachers? How do you understand the Divine? How does your magic work? There's much more emphasis here on research, community, and the Why because that's what this faction cares about. Some don't even do magic or even believe in it. Others don't believe in literal gods. Many don't consider themselves Witches, if they aren't rooted in a European tradition. Others don't consider themselves Pagan. It's such a weird, interesting mix of people. I think it's important to remember that both those kinds of magical folks exist in the internet space. There isn't just one online community. Meanwhile I keep seeing the online communities trying to set up irl meetups, so I can only assume the online community will become at least partially irl, but how much will those online/irl hybrid communities influence and be influenced by the mostly irl communities? It'll be a good time.

[@brigittaalbares3417]

Quick follow up: I know that the Occultists, the Conjure traditions, and the older witchcraft and pagan practices DID actually exist back in the early 90's. They pre-date the modern witchcraft movement kinda kicked into gear by Wicca, so of course they existed when I was fourteen lol But I had no real access to them. I was completely ignorant of them and had no obvious inroad into them in the way I did to Wicca. When I was a solo Practitioner in the 90's with not even proper online community, it genuinely felt like all witchcraft WAS Wicca.

[@schoo9256]

This is fascinating to me because I realised I was some form of pagan in 2018. Right when this aesthetic thing began to take off. When I went looking for information online it quickly became very apparent that i had stumbled into this interest at a transitional time when fascination with witchcraft, crystals, tarot, and the witchy aesthetic was beginning a process of resurgence into the mainstream. I was lucky enough to have a local pagan meetup that was comprised of people who had been doing this sort of thing since the 70s to the 00s. I had access to their books and their thoughts--and it was simply incredible how different what they thought was, from what the online space was saying. Things like "do you need to practice every day to be a real witch" and "is an emoji spell actually valid" and "is the use of gender stereotypes sexist" were being hotly debated online, meanwhile the in-person group was having a casual pub discussion over what level of divination was actually useful in daily life (consensus: very little) and whether, if you were a Wiccan and didn't want to create your own coven, it was worth doing your third degree or staying at, and mining the richness of, two (no consensus, sharply divided, all remained friends). I wanted to know whether using masculine/feminine polarities was sexist in their opinions and the answers i got back ranged from: "well, i use them and i think they're especially useful for beginners, but if you're a beginner and you're not comfortable using them, then if you can find something else that makes you more comfortable, do that instead." To: "theres a sharp division out there on that, but it's your practice, and i don't give a toss". I quickly began to see that i could take the offline stuff into the online space and be met with "yeah i guess that makes sense actually", whereas taking the online stuff into the offline space... the moment it left its little bubble it couldnt stand up on its own. I don't know whether that's because it is just too young to have its own legs, or if it's fundamentally too shallow to work on it's own. I suspect that the bits that do work will get folded back into the larger offline tradition eventually. The independent, experimental DIY spirit has, as you noted, stayed very strong and i think that's a positive. It's interesting to hear what you believe has continued on from your generation of witches, because obviously, I wasn't there for that.

[@drawingKenaz]

Thank you for sharing! It’s really helpful to hear how other folks have experienced this in their own communities. I sort of alternate between being horrified and encouraged, by both camps. Each has things it does well and has thought deeply about, and each has things that are ridiculous and horrifying.

[@howwewitch]

What I've noticed is that I see what people say online about what witches do, what paganism is, what wiccans are like etc and there often seems to be a consensus - only it's totally different from my own experiences irl. Especially with wicca a lot of the information and opinions online just don't apply to any of the wiccans I know or have met irl. Sometimes it really feels like two parallel worlds.

[@drawingKenaz]

That’s my experience, too, and I expect it’s just a consequence of how information recycles online. Along with, I think, the lack of an inclination to verify what we hear and read!

[@littlestbroccoli]

Absolutely

[@britetear21]

The 90s were what I had been waiting for at the time! So much was unfolding. I do see the very distinct differences in the internet community/ movement. One thing it lends to me now is inclusivity. I have no access to travel and live fairly remote. For that reason I am so grateful despite the things that are different

[@drawingKenaz]

This has been such a huge benefit for so many. It’s hard to be completely alone anymore, when it’s easier and easier to connect online!

[@LampshadeLadEddie]

".. except from the groaning noises.." STOP CALLING ME OUT LIKE THIS, THORN!

[@drawingKenaz]

It happened so suddenly and now my knees and back are just…not the same LOL

[@trecespalten5688]

I'm so glad you're speaking to this!! While I could write a book about it, one thing I noticed in your video is that the people you mentioned who "did their own thing" and brought Wicca to the masses weren't just rogue anybodys. Scott Cunningham, Raymond Buckland, the Farrars, even Silver RavenWolf, were all traditionally trained (one might argue about Silver's lineage, but she was trained/had teachers/was working with a lot of the same info and material as the others). They had learned the rules so they knew how to break them, so to speak, or at least how to work around them. I know they were scandalous to a degree for their time (which is also funny to me because Doreen Valiente had already been like, okay folks here's a self-initiation rite for ya!), but they wanted to share what was likely the most important thing in their lives with others, and I can understand that. What I can't understand is "hexing the moon," "hexing the fae," and the utter lack of education. There was also still continuity even if they presented variations. You could see how each of them were related even if they had very different ideas. Today, I don't see a relationship other than the word "witch" and even that could mean just about anything now, at least online. There is little to no respect for our elders, those who risked their lives to pave the way for us. There is little to no real teaching happening, especially by people who actually have the experience and knowledge to teach. Part of me is genuinely concerned that the whole movement will be trashed because it's poisoning its roots and shredding any and every attempt at religious community.

[@naahhhhHHHHHHHHHH]

who are the elders in the witch community? genuine question

[@trecespalten5688]

@@naahhhhHHHHHHHHHH I consider those who have given their lives to gain equal rights and were pioneers in bringing the Craft forward "into the light," so that we could all be here today practicing in the open, to be elders, as well as those who have fostered their covens and traditions over several decades. It's sad to me that anyone would even have to ask who our elders are, and I don't mean that personally, just that we have so little regard for them that their presence would be obscure.

[@naahhhhHHHHHHHHHH]

@@trecespalten5688 I mean I guess? it's not like there is a centralized authority, though, so new folks asking who elders are is not a crazy thing. you also didn't really mention any names so I still don't even know who you are talking about, really.

[@trecespalten5688]

@@naahhhhHHHHHHHHHH I mentioned a few in my OP, and there are many more, some easily found by looking into the history of modern pagan witchcraft, some who have no public presence but have been fostering their traditions and downline covens for a long time. Some are now dead, some are still alive. When I say "elders" I don't really mean authorities, I mean people who have been around for long time, practicing the Craft for a long time, and especially those who laid the groundwork for us to exist in the way we do today. The book People of the Earth: The New Pagans Speak Out, is an older book, not up to date, but is filled with interviews of the people I'm talking about.

[@feather8894]

I think the lack of education goes hand in hand with our entertainment-society. By that I mean how most people's attention spans have declined and that most people are not willing to do the hard work. Everything has to be available to one right here, right then. Not just in witchcraft, I notice this in university when most of my younger class mates (I recently went back to uni for the second time) are not willing to read a text and only ask chatGPT for answers. And that's exactly what happens with younger witches. And I can understand them, most of the older books are not easy to read and probably do not resonate with a lot of people today, especially younger people. And in a world where you are so used to be in the perfectly curated echo chamber, that is really hard and painful. I'm not sure if this a generational difference, but I fear for the future where people with a MA or BE degree have never read any kind of original text. And I fear for the future of a "I dont care, I do whatever I want" witchcraft.

[@feralfoods]

dr angela puca of 'angela's symposium' on youtube is doing a PhD study on the topic you are discussing. one of her studies shows how the internet has changed Italian Folk Magick, a craft that was isolated from the world for hundreds of years and kept secret within families and communities. now it's totally different because the kids online started swapping family spells and collecting various symbols and gestures that were supposed to remain within family lines. -so that's one example, online magick vs real world and how they mix, affect one another.

[@schoo9256]

Thank you so much for pointing me to her. This is fascinating.

[@arthurcox541]

The difference between IRL pagan and witchcraft spaces and online spaces is quite large. People act so differently in person then they do behind a screen and while social media and the internet has been a valuable resource for me (and has helped me feel less lonely), it cannot fill the void of not having an IRL space or group to go to, which I am trying to rectify. I had a wonderful experience with a theater company all throughout college and I keep thinking that if I could find something as involved and as great as that but for paganism and witchcraft ie. a coven or a study group, I'd be much happier. I was gung ho about being independent and being my own authority too so I was very much the social media witch you're talking about when I discovered paganism and witchcraft in... 2020-ish. It wasn't enough for me, although I have a lot of sentimental love for all of the pagan blogs and forums that helped me find my way in the beginning and that I still use!

[@jennygray7081]

As a witch of over 40 years, I've watched the branching out of new forms of paganism increase. Also a reduction of Wiccan practice due to separation of practice and religion. There are less people feeling the need to call themselves white witches, to make it feel cleaner and not evil. I am glad to see so much interest and great ideas. There is no reason to hide your beliefs. We can all share our thoughts so easily today.

[@paperstorycraft]

Blogging had the social networking about where to grow your blog you had to read others. At least that is what was written about. But once I stopped blogging I realized no one but bloggers read blogs. Lol. But I’m restarting mine since I’m hating the direction of social media platforms (business wise not socially).

[@drawingKenaz]

I’d like to get back to blogging to! I really haven’t blogged consistently in several years, and I feel like it’s shifted how I interact with other pagans and witches online. It’s a valuable format that social media just doesn’t replicate.

[@dancingdruid8314]

I think it's very much the same. But what was emphasized in the '80s and '90s that was pretty much divine feminine has found an equality. It used to be if you were a male pagan and you wanted to belong to a circle or a coven everything was about the goddess or the priestess if you were lucky you might find some greenman in there somewhere. But now it seems to be equally god and goddess, poet monk warrior, and/or maid mother crone, the emphasis is more on the magic than the structure. Being cold war-minded from the 80s and 90s I always like to have everything on paper so the idea of learning all this stuff online and not having a reference that I can hold in my my hands will totally drive me nuts and that's me showing my age. Unfortunately the Scott Cunningham's and Silver Raven Wolves are probably a thing of the past.

[@peckishpagan]

Access to information has changed by leaps and bounds. The immediate availability of not only answers but examples has the potential to cultivate perspectives and practices that are just as varied as they are available.

[@drawingKenaz]

“Not only answers, but examples…” yes to this especially! The idea that we can pick up our phones and instantly have models for the practices that we used to have to decipher out of books (and then to have actual other witches to see and identify with, where previously we could only imagine) is such a huge difference. And it makes witchcraft so much more accessible.

[@peckishpagan]

@@drawingKenaz It’s definitely empowering. I wonder how it’s going to effect personal practices. The information-seeking it took to decipher all those books shaped my beliefs and habits. In all likelihood, the next generation will be looking for different kinds of information and for different reasons.

[@peckishpagan]

This interaction has inspired me to order a copy of the first craft book I bought (Gypsy Love Magick by Raymond Buckland). I doubt there will be much from that book with examples online, but it will be fun to visit an old friend and imagine this space existing back then. Or these books being on shelves now. I’m pretty sure this book is out of print since I can only find it used. This is also something that would have been more difficult in the 90s & early aughts. Procuring an out of print book would take weeks or months, if at all. My email says it will be her by June 9th. What a time to be alive! ;)

[@littlestbroccoli]

@@peckishpagan That was my first book, too 😆 Thank you, Hot Topic.

[@peckishpagan]

It was in today’s mail! Like many things I’ve reclaimed from my youth, it’s not how I remember it at all. I like how there isn’t the standard “beginner crash course”. I’m going to enjoy this, even though he turned out to be my least favorite author. There are some chapters in here that I completely forgot about…

[@micheller3251]

The medium is the message. Internet witchcraft is different from irl witchcraft because it exists in a particular format alongside different paradigms. Witchcraft aesthetic makes sense on instagram since most of instagram is about aesthetic. The coexistence of online witchcraft/occultism with edgelord and redpill communities allows edgelord occultists to be a thing. If you have witches on a platform where influencers dictate the flavor of the day, of course there will random witch influencers too, and then you add the principle of online echo chambers which amplifies everything that exists online. Opinions, traditions, opposition to traditions, random new theories, values, etc.

[@littlestbroccoli]

Don't forget to draw your daily Labarynthos card, post a jar spell, and shit on a Wiccan today!

[@mikec.7945]

It's a good point and well said. I've only recently discovered your writing and KZbin videos and it's been great finding a grounded Witch honestly. With a lot of what I see out there, I'd be embarrassed to show it to somebody and say "I belong to this community". Very glad to have stumbled upon you.

[@cirella1064]

I have a difficult time seeking authentic practices online. I believe a good historic background on witchcraft in the geographic area of interest is a good start. Example, I’m interested in Italian witchcraft. Thus I am studying Ancient Greek and Roman witchcraft and the next subject is witchcraft in medieval and renaissance Italy and then witchcraft in the early 1900’s. Get a base going of what happened before the modern witchcraft movement began.

[@geeblenhoff1]

This is a very interesting topic to me bc even tho I’m not a Christian anymore I remember my grandparents talking about how the Christianity they grew up with is so different from the Christianity today and how the values and morals have changed to fit the times. I wonder if every religion goes through this before it collapses like how old religions did like ancient Egypt and Greek.

[@oathboundsecrets]

Yes, what is very clear to me is that the people, IRL community, that I know are not online. I mean, they have a facebook account but thats about it. A lot of them dont even have smart phones. They dont know what instagram is. Theyre still reading books from the 90s. Theyve never heard of cultural appropriation before. They are mostly focused on the local environment, attending little festivals and visiting holy sites.

[@Tiptoefoot]

This spoke to my soul absolutely 💯 At the very bottom of all my concerns is the fact that the type of witchcraft I know I grew up with / learned with books is completely different than what a lot of people are talking about other various social media platforms especially tiktok. You're absolutely right though I think I've completely overlooked the fact that I'm in my 30s and it's not 2010 anymore.

[@blueconlan9180]

I’ve stopped calling myself a witch based on what the online community seems to be becoming and now only refer to myself as a Pagan. It’s surprising to hear Pagan has negative associations now? You’re right online and IRL are different. I suspect largely due to age differences and older people being less online but also less influenced by what they see online.

[@gabrielleangelica1977]

Stopped calling myself a witch as well... Omnist/Angel Magick practitioner. 🎑

[@janethansen9612]

It's like the reasons people left the conservative christian churches - the I want to find my own personal gnosis. I do note the 80s were 40 years ago so it makes perfect sense that recent generations of witches will want to stamp their own perspectives on their practice and that necessarily involves social media. I, however, am of the creaky older demographic and a lot of what the insta witches or witchtoks present doesn't resonate with me. I hasten to say not all though, I've come across a few very switched on young folk with very interesting takes on witchcraft that I enjoy considering.

[@badwolftina8716]

Shhh, don't say the 80s were 40 years ago! Surely I can't be that old... :D

[@ArtemisNYC]

Everything old is new again eventually. I think what it boils down to is a quest for authenticity. Witches in the 80's and 90's maybe couldn't find a lot of relevance in the way that those in the 40's and 50's did things, hence the need to branch out. So today's witches perhaps can't relate to those 90's practices and are once again looking to adapt witchcraft to suit modern life. Great video.

[@StephASMR]

Yes! This makes so much sense. I feel like there is such a disconnect, not only in this area but in all areas

[@MaeviusLynn]

I am really looking forward to watching this! Fantastic topic. I can't wait to learn more.

[@SoliRhymesWithJulie]

All I can add right now is that first, I am with you on wanting to be part of something with continuity. It isn't about the age of the tradition but how long they have been active and even growing. Second, sometimes I wonder hard about how much is aesthetics and how much is all out doing. Third, dear Gods the misinformation. Even hearing about it second, third, fourth hand can be outright painful. And ike a lot of other things in our society now, all that matters is what the person wants to hear.

[@CapsuleerCowboy]

I don't use Instagram or Tiktok and I barely use Facebook and Twitter. I do however use Discord and I've found some really good folks there. I'm so ready for the pandemic to end so I can seek a coven in person. I'm a 90's witch so I miss the days of meetups and festivals.

[@naahhhhHHHHHHHHHH]

I thought it was interesting that you brought this up without the context of the actual platforms. Who knows what these individual creators motivations are in posting this stuff? Some folks just want a lot of followers, we can’t always assume authenticity, especially since ‘authenticity’ is basically a marketing term now. Algorithms like controversy and hottakes. Individual viewers find lots of online creators they like that aren’t the big, viral names. What defines an online community, anyway? Is a trend a community? I think it is interesting that these TikTokers and others get up some folks’ noses so much!

[@littlestbroccoli]

As an ender millennial who missed out on the chance to be part of the 90s movement, I have a distinct nostalgia for that kind of Wicca and witchcraft. I feel out of place in Reddit and discord discussions about witchcraft today, I don't get the fights that go on, and I really want to just be able to go back and live that old version. Instagram witchcraft doesn't exactly feel fake, but it never will give me the shining silver glow of the goddess of the moon smiling into my soul in my teenage bedroom at 3am. Who knows, maybe it's giving today's teens demon booty calls, or whatever they're into, but it's definitely different.

[@WormwoodCrow]

Seems to be the pendulum is swinging back. Pre-90s people practiced witchcraft in a group. The 90s gave us "Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner" & Co. Now people want to feel authentic is groups, but the medium has technologically progressed. Whether the content being consumed has progressed... So pre-90s witchcraft and current witchcraft both seem more social, and both have blurry edges on whatever the truth (Truth? "Truth"?) is, but pre-90s is blurred from a shared horn of mead and today's witches blur with filters. I'm sure in a couple of decades there will be some return to secrecy, isolated ritual, and solitary practice. Either because of the natural turning of the wheel or exacerbated by social-political pressures from conservative forces. But no matter where the pendulum is, it's because people are looking for an authentic experience. That sense of authenticity may be a Holy Grail that's more legend than anything. The founding parameters of witchcraft are steeped in inauthenticity. To really get something from one's practice, a person has to work hard to hammer meaning into their religious choice(s). Witchcraft eschews codified morality and taboos, the defining factors that authenticate some religions, in favor of magical acts and aesthetics. Finding people who share some overlap in those aids in group think and provides a sense of authenticity, but technology can create huge differences in aesthetics. So, if the defining factor of your religion is different from another group, in this case because of technology, are you practicing something different? Probably. But from my experience, people adhering to "established" religions seem to harbor very different ideas about morality, taboos, and living life, so perhaps it doesn't matter much. EDIT: A video titled "What is an MMORPG? (seriously) | With Callum Upton" popped up today, so I wanted to refer to this after posting the above. People play mmorpgs for an experience and for connection with others. And technology has progressed in the field of mmorpgs, so that experiences and connections are perceived differently by different players. What is an authentic mmorpg? What is the authentic experience? Was it a couple of decades ago in the early days of that gaming genre? With so many options today, is anyone really playing an authentic game? The issues of authenticity, experience, connection, gatekeeping, and perspective isn't limited to "serious" topics like religion, but anything people are passionate about. So many opinions, but no answers. Deep breath, people.

[@spinstercatlady]

Yeah it feels very different from what we had in the 90's for sure. It seems less religion based and more of a grab bag of aesthetics and aesthetically pleasing "rituals" in many cases. Now, I enjoy aesthetically pleasing things, but what kinda bothers me is that much of what we see doesn't seem to be grounded in anything substantial and it all remains very surface level. It really doesn't lay the foundation for any type of long term, meaningful practice imo. I see less and less discussion and practice surrounding deities as well - the goddess and god seem to have been sidelined for some reason. Idk maybe my perspective is skewed, but from my POV it kinda feels like the Craft as we knew it is dying and it makes me so sad.

[@AlIguana]

Witchcraft of the 1950s-1990s was more intellectual. Witchcraft 2010- is more aesthetic. not going further than that cos I don't like arguments. Do what thou wilt etc

[@_asphobelle6887]

As a European, I would also note that the pagans you're meeting IRL are probably 99% Americans, and the publishing boom of the 90's only took place in the USA, and the people you consider leaders or authorities are mostly Americans too. In other countries, especially non English-speaking countries, we don't have these same references and leaders because we mostly didn't have access to them. Add to that cultural and societal differences that make some of these references less relevant. But the Internet as a whole is international, and social platforms in particular are a lot more accessible to non English speakers now you can easily translate content in your language, sometimes with no more than a click on a button. So yeah, their public is different, not only in terms of age but also cultural diversity and the way they came to the craft.

[@bloodsweatandsteel.2749]

So this is something I've never considered before but you make some very good points. Sadly I have only ever been to 1 in person open ritual! And I loved it. I very much want to go to more unfortunately they keep getting canceled by Covid. As a result im restricted to the internet for interactions with other pagans and witches. This makes me wonder if im learning the same kind of witchcraft. I mean for example, if you were to observe me casting circle and calling quarters would you recognize that as what I was doing? Or would you call it something completely different? Of course im not initiated in to any specific tradition of wicca and am very much a solitary so I doubt im doing things the way any coven would. But would it be recognizable? This is an interesting thing you've brought up. Thank you for sharing.

[@adonismerlin6967]

Oh wow, I can see both sides of that. I’m at a loss to know which one of those sides sounds the most logical. Good points to think on further….. -Thorn

[@moonmaiden13]

Just some feedback: setting your videos to premieres actually makes me miss them because I've been waiting for days seeing the thumbnail over and over again in my feed, so when it actually premieres I don't catch it because I'm desensitized to seeing the thumbnail. Does that make sense? 🙈

[@oathboundsecrets]

Yes like the first time you see the thumbnail youre excited to watch, but a few days later you see it as "old news" and it doesnt feel fresh and exciting anymore.

[@drawingKenaz]

I can totally see that, and that’s how I personally feel too! But it’s what KZbin is pushing, and it really seems to impact how it circulates. I’m hoping for a middle ground where I can get into a rhythm of just always posting at the same time. Then it doesn’t have to be a “premiere.”

[@pe003]

I think you make a really good point regarding he continuity of intent. I see the same kind of difference between "pagan" and "heathers". I am pretty eclectic in my own practice but occasionally I look up and and think what's going on over there, I am not sure we even agree on what pagan means or on the intent behind what we are doing. I am not sure how you reconcile that to get a concrete Idea or if the term heather is now distinct from the term pagan

[@BonMooney]

The thing I've noticed with younger witches is this bizarre need to label themselves very specifically - eg, water witch, kitchen witch, crystal witch. This has no basis in traditional witchcraft or wicca and seems to be a made up thing to fit in with an aesthetic. A witch works with all of those things, if you only practice with one element, you're not a witch and aren't all witches kitchen witches?? As for crystals... well I've never been able to get behind a nature based religion that is ok with hacking crystals out of mother earth. Crystals again, were just not that big a deal in the 80s in wicca , it was specifically a "new age" thing, which now seems to have take over.

[@coolkdma1]

Here in Brazil, the traditional festivals are incorporating a lot of the new folk, with the “big name pagans” giving workshops alongside young, famous youtubers.

[@SprocketWatchclock]

93! Hi from a Thelemite

[@drawingKenaz]

93! 💙

[@mermaliade6631]

I'll be honest with you I'm still kind of horrified at witchcraft influencers. Part of it has to do with the fact that a lot of them don't adhere to what one would perceive is witchcraft culture. Like, for example a lot of them don't follow the witche's pyramid. Or even like know what that is. Also a good bulk of them don't tend to do research they just follow people on social media that tell them how to do ritual, rather than read and look up a lot of this stuff. It feels more like a fad or anaesthetic, rather than traditions, which is a major bummer.

[@gabrielleangelica1977]

Never heard of the witch's pyramid, and I have been studying since the 70's. 🏛️

[@mermaliade6631]

@@gabrielleangelica1977 I noticed in a lot of books from the 80s and 90s they bring it up, but I haven't seen it in books predating that. It's more or less a code of conduct. To know (which more or less is to educate yourself), to will(to work magic), to dare (which is to have courage as a practitioner), and to be silent (which is a nod to using magical names/aliases in the craft to protect oneself against religious persecution, ect). It's something that may be antiquated as far as idealisms and modern sensibilities go. I think that people would have struggled especially with that last one in the era of Tik-Tok and social media because people have less of a stigma about other religions than they used to.

[@gabrielleangelica1977]

@@mermaliade6631 Oh, thank you for not being mad at me... I'm looking it up today! I appreciate the explanation. ✌️

[@septegram]

@@mermaliade6631 A slightly different take on those four, if I may... To know is to educate yourself, yes, but also to know *exactly* what you want. Everything begins with intent; if your intention is fuzzy, your results are uncertain, at best. So, "I want to be in better shape" is appallingly vague. "I want a BMI of X and a resting heart rate of Y" is much better, although it needs to be attainable, too. Know how soon you want it. Know what you will do to make it happen. Don't just light a candle in front of a dumbbell and a picture of an athlete and hope for the best; your mind must be *focused.* Which brings us to the "will" component. Not only must you know your goal and the means, you must be fiercely determined. "I *will* get up an hour earlier five days a week to work out. " I *will* implement my backup plan if it's too dangerous to go running, or the gym is closed, or the pool is too full of people to swim laps, or whatever. "I *will* stop eating cookies, candy, cakes, chips, etc. five days a week, and only indulge reasonably on the other two. "I *will* ... {insert whatever else I decide is necessary to achieve my goal}." Wake up determined. Go to bed determined. Exercise your wil; will is what drives the magick. To dare; understand that magick may come at you sideways. You do a working for a better job, and one opens up half a continent away; are you ready to accept the consequences of the Working? Or you find yourself becoming obsessed with getting that job; you work sixty-hour weeks, you volunteer to be on call, you spend money on training, and finally you get the job because you've become the kind of person for that job. But your friends, your spouse, your hobbies, your kids have all become secondary to The Job. None of those may happen, but they might. Do you dare take the chance? Even if nothing bad happens to you or anyone you know, what about the poor schlub who needed the job worse than you did, but didn't get it because you tipped the scales your way with a spot of magick? You'll never know those consequences; are you ready for them to happen, regardless? Do you dare? If so, then move ahead. Then, to keep silent... Often, Workings are better if we don't discuss them. We all know that when you make a wish on a star or a cake, or because it's 11:11, you don't tell anyone the wish. Further, every time you talk about the spell, it can dilute it. If you keep telling people about the great novel you're *going* to write, you're less likely to actually sit down and write the blasted thing, because you're having fun talking about it. The North, Earth, is the Place of Manifestation. Less talking, more doing. You want more money, and it comes from a settlement for a grievous injury. OK, that turned out to be a lot longer than I intended. My apologies for getting wordy. I guess I picked up some stuff in the last decade or three... 😆

[@mermaliade6631]

@@septegram I certainly appreciate it! I think that it's been awhile since I've actually talked to anybody about any of those kinds of concepts. It's a little different with everybody but the base is important! So don't worry about it being long-winded! It takes a little bit to describe and explain. The other thing about to be silent that is a little hard to think about is that sometimes even in occult spaces, there might be somebody that means you harm and that's another reason to protect your identity. There's so much to be gleaned from that pyramid. It's never really steered me wrong when practicing.

[@daniellefike1200]

When it comes down to it they just need to educate themselves that goes for anything though I don’t like TikTok or anything it’s not my thing I only have been doing it for 4 years I also think it’s the lack of respect for it especially with younger generations they are disrespectful and think they can do what they want not saying everyone is that way even I know to do that and I haven’t been doing it for years it’s common sense educate yourself!

[@myjohnsonnuranus8053]

You mean like the Craft movie ??

[@thepopcultureprincess]

Witchcraft is evolving

[@vernmeyerotto255]

Have you noticed, then, that the community has evolved. Yet again?

[@gabrielleangelica1977]

I admire the individual path of the Witch on the internet. However, some of the non-Wiccans seem to be going off the deep end into negative Magick...👹which literary creates a monster.

[@micheller3251]

I wonder if this tendency is linked to the internet edgelord mentality, the passive nihilism that makes some people think that nothing makes sense therefor destruction is the only thing that gives real power and meaning (which is obviously wrong). I'm a non wiccan myself, but I really don't subscribe to the whole "witchcraft must be scary and dangerous" narrative

[@anniesue4456]

ni it's a bridge to community .... not everyone has the luxury of in person community

[@embelslishments]

In all honesty I'm kinda glad to see witchcraft disintegrating. I started exploring gender when I got into witchcraft at age 12 (now 22 so older gen z), and have always thought it would be great if only it weren't rooted in a gross Edwardian cisnormative bioessentialist misreading of historical paganism. It's why at the end of my year & a day despite the coven (Gardnerian) being very lovely abt me being trans I quit. It's the foundation of the thing that's rotten because it clings to a romantic nostalgia for a past that never existed, and movements since then have only added their own new layers of sociopolitical baggage & rose tinted goggles, like covering a bowl of rotten fruit over with fresh fruit over & over again for a century. Whilst it may be good for some, it seems to me that the hourglass is running low on witchcraft as we know it & I look forward to seeing whatever movements take its place. Seeing the way culture is moving among my generation I'm really glad that so much of the pseudoscience of the past is being thrown out, but I don't think older folks realise that we don't have any interest in abolishing structure or lineage, if anything the reason we're abandoning it is because we simply cannot make steps backwards when time only moves forwards. If the structure & tradition doesn't change, then we are forced to leave just as every generation before us. I don't like this current wave much either but it at least gives me hope that the future might be better and I'm glad the younger folks of my generation don't have to be as stuck in the 20th century as I was. Edit: it's also worth baring in mind that growing up with social media gives you a fundamentally different paradigm & ways of thinking & problem solving that is genuinely impossible to describe fully but "the god & goddess" & things of that nature might as well be spoken in Martian. Millennials were the first to grow up with the Internet, gen z are the first to have grown up in a world of being online 24/7, so we just don't live how anyone else has lived. A generation of cyborgs I guess

[@Gemmagic84]

You make a LOT of great points & I agree that #witchtok and #witchesofinstagram are very different movements from what happens at public events, private in person get-togethers and even the witchcraft blogosphere. I'm around the same age AND witch age as you, and while I've had little experience with irl community I do still read books AND blogs (especially Patheos blogs and Llewellyn books, hai 😅)... I actually enjoy Instagram. I know it's mostly just aesthetic but I love it for following witch artists & I love the community I found on there. I also still love KZbin for the community. I don't really enjoy TikTok and reels. They're just annoying... I'd rather go listen to I AM by Baby Tate ft. Flo Milli (or whatever song is trending) than watch a ton of cringe reels featuring a snippet of it 😖 Also I know there's misinformation everywhere but it just seems to proliferate on reels. And they waste so many jars 🙄 You're absolutely right that you could compare the generational differences to the publishing explosion circa the 90's (which was very revolutionary at the time). I guess as the world and the communication methods we use change, so will expressions of witchcraft. Thanks Thorn 🥰🙌