Are People Just... Way Better at Video Games Now?

[@Yeags]

I’ve seen a lot of comments saying that “only sweaty players and/or COD veterans tried out XDefiant” or something along those lines. There may be a bit of truth to that statement generally speaking, but I just want to point out that, as of 06/28/24, 12 million players had tried XDefiant, and it’s also a F2P title. While I (obviously) don’t have data to support this assumption, I highly doubt that all 12 million of those people are Zillennial COD veterans. The entire point of the F2P model is to hook casual players that wouldn’t otherwise pay to give your game a chance, and 12 million people is… a lot of people

[@johnnymonsterrrr]

dw bout it, they are just finding excuses

[@nerdstrangler4804]

XDefiant lobbies feel pretty old school to me. Started off doing consistently terrible, slowly got better over time, then started doing consistently good. That is how I remember games being. Considering I am in my early 40s and can consistently do well even when listening to music and drinking beers, it doesn't at all feel sweaty to me.

[@FadeMaster24]

No one stayed it's ok to try a free game

[@jacobstall1588]

​@@nerdstrangler4804that's what I'm saying! When I was a kid I would hop on cod and lose every game and gunfight and that's how xdefiant sort of felt.

[@jacobstall1588]

This is a great reason why this video is wack, players aren't better, players are used to video games and have better hardware. Xdefiant was to simple and derivative, nobody was ever "to good"

[@callofdutyfreak10123]

Every facet of life is “sweaty” now, and you touched on this in the middle of the video. Look at the job market- I’m competing with literally anyone who has an internet connection now for every single job posting that’s not a local grocery store.

[@liamnissanS2K]

Only sure fire way to find work In 2024 imo : mom n pop construction site. Tell them you are smart and want to learn. Good Luck.

[@corpingtons]

Seriously 😂

[@sak-atWork]

same. im lucky enough to alrady have a job but I can't even find a job to give me a paycut lmao. (trying to move to area with lower CoL).

[@cmor3464]

It’s sad isn’t it

[@lennoxax929]

Job market isn't sweatyer then back in the baby boomer generation

[@nhex9769]

a 14 Y/o kid today would absolute destroy my 14 years old version

[@TheSpiritedFendron]

not mine

[@jackoster7115]

The saying used to be, "Kids today wouldn't last a second in og CoD lobbies" and now it's the reverse

[@TheSpiritedFendron]

@@jackoster7115 not by a long shot

[@FrostDrift69]

@@TheSpiritedFendron cope bro, its weird to act the way you are as a grown man. Don't embarrass our generation

[@TheSpiritedFendron]

@@FrostDrift69 you being bad doesn't mean everyone is

[@BudgiePanic]

When they turn SBMM off and you realise YOU are the noob the sweats are dunking on

[@Christoph5782]

As a person who was in the eSports scene (albeit for the NHL games and Competitive Achievement Hunting, so nothing of any real value), only time that would be true is if you are playing a game that’s a decade old. Anything released in this decade there will always be someone far worse than you online and playing

[@theresnothinghere1745]

@@Christoph5782 There being someone worse isn't what causes this. If you are not in the top third of the game in terms of skill there's a good chance you will have to play against someone who is that will stomp you. What matters isn't that there are people worse than you but that there are people better than you that will kill you and prevent you from killing those worse than you.

[@CasualCat64]

Nah I’m still a sweat I’ve put too many hours and years to be the noob anymore

[@TheMelnTeam]

On the other hand, it gives the opportunity to observe and copy what better players do. And to understand why it works. Most people don't take that opportunity, and remain intermediate or worse at the game permanently. Even players with 1000s of hours sometimes. But that's on them. Some of my friends who only play turn based stuff, decrying their reaction speed for shooters. They don't want to hear that over 90% of their struggles are bad habits and poor decisions in the moment. That requires admitting that they just don't want to put in effort at it, that being bad is a choice they made. That's ok. Can't be good at everything. But not owning that bothers me. There are games I'm bad at too. Just don't enjoy them enough to put work into being decent. In those, I choose to remain bad (though usually also to not play).

[@Arl-es]

​@@TheMelnTeam That depends on the skill level though, if the better player is just a bit better sure but if the player vastly superior you won't learn anything by just getting pummel out the game.

[@cakes9962]

Do not forget that the hardware has improved massively. We now have excelent extremely low latency monitors and even TVs, better controllers, better internet connections, 120fps consoles with barely any inout delay. This evolution in gaming hardware becoming very responsive allows everyone to aim faster and better. Back in 2008 most of casual console gamers played on old 200USD 32 inch TVs with at least 100ms of input delay, 3 meters away from it on consoles from 2005 with more unreliable slower internet connections.

[@dylbert3088]

This reminds me of when I was I kid I played on a 72 inch plasma tv in my family room, cause we only had that one tv. I bought a gaming monitor when I got older and realized that I was playing with such a massive disadvantage for so long. That 72 inch tv probably had about a 250 ms input delay on it.

[@cakes9962]

@@dylbert3088 yeah exactly, lowlatency entirely changes the entire feel and improves your performance drastically

[@bigbeartanner]

@@dylbert3088same dude lol

[@CR0WYT]

This. High refresh rate monitors and "pro controllers" are way more accessible and cheaper these days. Back in the early 2010s, you had to drop at least $150 if you wanted a controller with back buttons and trigger stops. Now I can buy one at Walmart for $40.

[@ExTremZero]

@@dylbert3088 if input delay is so important for you, play on a CRT.

[@alondite215]

I think part of it actually has to do with stagnation in game design. People are getting better because we keep playing the same designs and the same gameplay forms over and over.

[@sneakysnake123]

very very good point

[@fitmotheyap]

It does feel like I am playing the exact same games over and over, only niche games like mindustry and town of salem 2 make me feel like I am actually improving and having fun doing so

[@CaC-br3uc]

Which is a good thing btw

[@alondite215]

@@CaC-br3uc Not really, especially considering how shallow and dynamically-compressed the average game is and has been for decades. Game design legitimately has not advanced beyond the 80s. Super Mario Bros on NES can reach a depth of 7 interplay counters (the unit of measure for depth), which is more than double what the average modern game can achieve. _More than twice as much depth_ in a game from the 80s, running on NES, built on archaic devtools without any kind of design roadmap to follow. Modern gaming is a _travesty_

[@bestaround3323]

​@@alondite215and it reaches a 7 how?

[@ItsWestSider]

SBMM creates the illusion that everyone is good at the game. The reality is that most players who play are still very much casual. You just don't see them very often because of the matchmaking protecting them.

[@Profetorum]

Not just that, games are effectively made with accessibility in mind. Back then, the few competitive multiplayer games were made to be the most challenging and skill rewarding as possible. It's just a matter of ...what the gamers consider as "competitive"

[@ExTremZero]

@@Profetorum my character is more divers than yours i win.

[@wonderflounium]

This guy needs a shower.

[@lucianorider6748]

What exactly is this supposed to be insinuating? I see no lies here​@@wonderflounium

[@ptrcrispy]

Most Casual gamers don’t play competitive shooters. XDefiant has no SBMM and is littered with sweaters

[@H8Zexy]

Covid was basically steroids for gamers

[@kastoridesbobur]

So true

[@silky.919]

the hyperbolic time chamber

[@xSTONYTARKx]

​​@@silky.919most accurate description of what it feels like thinking back at how many years have passed since then. We're coming close to the point where the start of covid is the same amount of years from now then 2030 is.

[@Drums2strings]

Nah people got way worse after covid

[@H8Zexy]

@@Drums2strings 🤯 almost like that’s what I said

[@TyFrom99]

I'm still ass 💯

[@Yeags]

I bet I’m worse

[@JoThNoMi]

Hell yeah bro

[@arkhaic1792]

dude this is so real, i feel like my skill has been mostly stagnant but most peoples' has risen

[@Forbe.]

@@arkhaic1792 EXACTLY

[@thebruhssqwad]

@@YeagsNuh uh I’m worse I’ve never beaten even 1 game

[@Solaire-1234]

I think the problem with Xdefiant is that noobs (like me) are just not gonna play it. Why would I play a game where I get matched with people who have played thousands of hours of FPS games when I could play a game where I play against people of my skill level? Destroying noobs feels great, but getting destroyed doesn't.

[@rollerskdude]

Agreed. Absolutely agreed.

[@smithsmith6402]

This is what happened with pvp servers in MMOs. All the easy targets stopped playing on them because getting murdered by a dozen people following you around to stop you from having fun... wasn't fun. Shocking. Then those dozen players left too because they never actually wanted to fight other people that would fight back in the first place.

[@cinemapigeon4898]

What old CODs did well was offer noob loadouts and fairly simple maps with obvious camping spots allowing bad players to still have fun and somewhat often kill better players than them. Sure you might still get rekt, but you can use one man army noobtubes and have fun and get care packages that may reward you AC130s

[@georgemosidze1794]

Oh hey you came across the primary reason skill based matchmaking exists and why games without it almost always suffer population drought without.

[@cinemapigeon4898]

@@georgemosidze1794 Does that mean there's no room for popular non SBMM games? We went years having little to no SBMM and plenty of multiplayer games flourished.

[@Razor-gx2dq]

I play a near dead game called Titanfall 2, SBMM is almost non existant, the game is in a similar state to X defiant, good players who have been around the block for years at this point destroy any newcommer. The skill gap between a top tier player and a noob is vert high.

[@LadySniperSwaggYT]

Exactly, occasionally you’ll get that really good player who’s shooting cold wars from the skybox. But other than that the matches are fair for the most part. Rarely any lopsided wins

[@MR12AMAZING]

I've played FPS games since 07 and would consider myself an above avg player but even I struggled immensely playing xDefiant which is supposed to be a game void of SBMM. It made me realise that SBMM isn't as big of a problem as people make it out to be. People think that if COD removed SBMM that their games would become a lot more chilled and relaxed but I think many would be in for a rude awakening.

[@HeideGuy]

​@@MR12AMAZINGYeah I also think SBMM removal would just be easier for pros to pub stomp.

[@nolyfe4814]

@@MR12AMAZING really? Maybe I should hop back on, in my experience I do relatively well, better then I do in cod actually. I’m usually sitting around a 1kd in cod, I’m nearly at a 2 in xdefiant, like I still play sweaty teams a good bit but I hold my own.

[@Razor-gx2dq]

@@LadySniperSwaggYT I'm one of the players who has been playing Titanfall 2 for years I am a top player, I try to help new players but its difficult compared to most other fps games, as for X defiant I am good at the game, still building out my class and learning more about the game. All that being said as I've gotten older I have shifted away from PVP games. I'm mostly a Destiny 2 player and only go to PVP games when D2 content gets stale.

[@Anchstyle907]

A: Everyone has good to great internet connections in modern gaming. B: As mentioned in the video, players have 10-20 years of fps gameplay experience. C: Peripheral equipment for gaming are tuned for max performance. 10-20 years ago most people shared a system with others. Today people have dedicated gaming rigs, dedicated monitors, custom controllers setup for specific games. D: As mentioned in the video, with so many content creators, people are studying ‘game film’ like sports players, even if just for entertainment, picking up tips and tricks even if they don’t realize or internationally try to. E: Gaming is one of the cheapest entertainment options in modern society. Dollars spent to hours spent compared to 10-20 years ago. People spend way more time gaming today. If we took a person from a CoD lobby today, who is considered average, middle of pack finishers with their 1gig internet connection, 2ms monitors, customized paddle/stick controllers, 500 hours of KZbin gamer content ‘entertainment’ watching, and put them into a CoD lobby of 2009, they would be called the sweaty sweatiest nerd loser for dominating every game. But today they are just an average gamer.

[@puffyips]

*0.03ms monitors

[@Adizzle235]

That’s a lot to write to be completely wrong.

[@Anchstyle907]

@@Adizzle235 huh? That’s a dumb comment when I’m absolutely correct.

[@fitmotheyap]

​@@Anchstyle907 A and C don't apply, the average person doesn't have a competitive setup for gaming(

[@ravioli-ravioli]

Monitors don't mean shit for average players. Also you got CoD lobbies from 2009 even today, where people play at barely average PC's on 3:4 screen, and they are some sweatiest mfs i've ever seen in CoD. If we took an average kid from latest CoD's lobbies and put him in there (not even talk about gamepad kids lol, just some PC player), they will probably end up with k/d around ~5/30, calling everyone cheaters and leaving the game. And i meet people like that all the time, since i didn't stop playing CoD 4.

[@borkandersbork]

The rise of esports caused a huge shift in the culture of gaming. Before Esports gaming was considered a casual pasttime for kids (like u mention in the video). After Esports the culture in gaming shifted to being way more competitive. Compare early counter strike 1.6 to csgo/cs2. Night and day difference in gaming culture, from the types of memes to the attitudes towards the game in general.

[@christiansmemefactory1513]

Tbh CS has always had an "git gud" culture centered around the pros. But most people even with that weren't playing competitive 5v5 because it was usually behind a paywall like ESEA

[@bc9866]

Arcades? Fighting games always had a hardcore dog eat dog mentality due to the nature of winner stays on and gambling a token/quarter to play. People were pulling off esoteric infinites that are still hard to do to this day.

[@epicgamerzfail4575]

@@bc9866 yes, but that's fighting games. shooters didn't really have a large focus on esports until around the 2010s. Early multiplayer shooters were very much casual first, with an esports scene on the side (maybe).

[@Nachy]

@@epicgamerzfail4575 Yeah, competitive shooters used to be a more niche demographic. While they definitely existed even back then, from Quake to CS tourneys with cash prizes, they weren't the global cultural zeitgeist and spectator sports that they are now. I distinctly remember how much more goofy and casual multiplayer shooters are in the 2000s. Aside from the aforementioned earlier COD and Halo, TF2, Battlefield and derivatives like Star Wars Battlefront definitely had a more relaxed atmosphere. The competitive scene used to be laser focused on the back then with RTS (StarCraft), then MOBA (Dota, LoL), and fighting games. Fun comparison to be had looking at earlier forums is back then, FPS advice used to be solely composed of "Lower your sens", "Just keep playing", "Practice with bots" and while those still ring true, now you have people diving deep into aim trainer routines, scenarios, peripheral adjustments, (non-cheating) software modifications and more. The esports part from the niche to being the mainstream.

[@puffyips]

100%

[@MinaB-o2n]

Experience definitely plays into it. I don't play shooters but for example in League of Legends I have so many mechanics just baked into my brain that it might seem like I'm sweaty af but it's actually relaxing for me since I do all the stuff automatically

[@sneakysnake123]

I think that nowadays, if you are a casual gamer, you are way below average most of the time, and that is what changed. It is not enough to keep up and compete. People and kids now are trying not to be just good but to sweat for their live in everything. To be above average, it needs much palytime and practise. And even beeing above average is something else than 10 years ago, it is not enough to dominate lobbies anymore. The whole skill level shifted imo, and the difference between average and above average is not as wide apart anymore. I imagine it as an flattening curve where more too the right two points have nearly the same hight, in comparison to more to the left.

[@comradesillyotter1537]

Doesn't this functionally redefine average rather than casual

[@dorianhorvat5597]

@@comradesillyotter1537 Avarage is Casual, everyoen wants to be the next pro/Streamer/Esports celeb. In gaming the easiest way is to be good.

[@MEWOVER9000]

I think the hardware is also relevant. I remember playing TF2 with a $5 dell mouse in 720p at 24 FPS back when I was a kid. Now everyone is running around with 2k high refresh rate monitors and precision mice. Huge boost in performance.

[@ggolden]

and back then it was glorious.

[@CerealKiller2]

XDefiant is kind of a special case though. Since, like you said, its main selling point is that it's like COD, but without SBMM, so it's obviously only going to attract the most hardcore COD players. Despite that, it still feels nowhere near as sweaty as COD in my experience.

[@elfudido7027]

I used to be a casual player in fps shooters back then but ever since i got MW2019 onwards i was pretty much forced to be sweaty

[@grssu]

same bro and I’m pretty good but i’d much rather still be a casual that just enjoys the game and isnt focussing on winning but rather just having fun

[@madeye6896]

Your mistake was MW Try some CS for actual skill monsters

[@prophetofwatersheep8100]

​@@madeye6896 cs sucks now

[@archonthaaproducer]

@@madeye6896 CS hasn't been good since they made it F2P

[@wonderflounium]

Sbmm is the only thing stopping the scenario when you get into a game after initial release, and the multi-player is basically unplayable since you haven't been sweating in it for months like everyone else is.

[@NeightrixPrime]

Things that never happened in CoD:

[@wonderflounium]

@NeightrixPrime before sbmm it absolutely did.

[@Supersonicspyro]

​@@wonderflouniumwhile that is true, the trade off is massive and unacceptable, it makes the game unfun to play more than a few weeks if you're any good at the game, no one wants to play ranked all the time, especially when you dont even get told or show what you're ranking even is, it makes it aggravating to even try new weapons or play styles when there's no casual mode to test or upgrade anything, zombies having the same weapon progression is a bandaid but not a solution

[@wonderflounium]

@Supersonicspyro how specifically does it make the game not fun to play in ways that don't fit these 2 criteria. 1 situations that prevent a worse experience for players that have lives. 2 situations that would be remedied by adjusting the sensitivity of the sbmm rather than removing it entirely. The only arguments I've heard against sbmm have fit into either of those categories, if your gripes with it don't, I'd like to hear them, if they do, go take a shower and get a job.

[@Supersonicspyro]

@@wonderflounium I would agree SBMM doesn't need to be removed entirely, as even some of the old games had it to a degree, but nowhere near as strict and as needlessly complex as it is, it very much so needs to be toned down, and how does it make it unfun to play? Simple, in the old days Connection was what the system cared about and prioritized over anything else, these days the skill level is prioritized, the better you are the further and further the game has to search out for people, while i could be getting low ping matches with people in my region, I'm forced to play matches at 60 ping or more because I'm too skilled to play with a collection of local people and it must find people of similar skill level from around the country or world, so for starters I'm already forced to have worse connection by default by being any good at the game, secondly by being any good at the game you get into Matches that all play nearly identical to the point it's fatiguing and or uninteresting, it would be the same if I was constantly put in low tier lobbies and constantly destroyed everyone, it would be fun for maybe a few days but then it would just get boring with no variety and no incentive to keep playing or improving, and another thing your reward for getting better at the game is the game getting even harder instead of getting easier like it would in every other game ever made, I can't improve enough to where the game is seldom frustrating, my reward for getting better is just more frustration which can make it feel like you aren't even improving even if you technically are, so you can't even feel a sense of progression even if there was some, it makes trying out new weapons and play styles almost a death sentence to your K/D because if your weapon or setup isnt already optimized it's hard to be successful in those lobbies with players who already are using optimized loadouts with everything unlocked, all of this essentially pushes you to either only play with the same weapon or setups all the time or deal with getting destroyed just because you wanted to try something different that you obviously don't have maxed out, it used to be that a public playlist and a ranked playlist were 2 different experiences, now they are virtually identical, they essentially removed the original casual matchmaking without outright telling you they did, so now ranked competitive is essentially the only experience you can have, and when you haven't outright opted into playing and expecting ranked play that's definitely frustrating and draining

[@DayKlight]

the beginning of xdefiant was more oldschool, if you play now, only the more hardcore cracks still stick with it, same with the finals, in the beginning everyone was messing around, now only full 3 team squads on discord are your enemies. the problem with xdefiant is that there is just no content being added and its probably soon shut down.

[@jake100xx]

Maybe the first fair criticism I have read on XDefiant in this comment section, unfortunately thats the case for every FPS game when the playerbase drops off. I doubt it will get shut down though, I think it is fake news funded by activision, the playerbase has been only low due to the BO6 betas limited time to play. I honestly wish the human race had a bigger spine and we would boycott cod once and for all.

[@DayKlight]

@@jake100xx the new cod really doesnt look good in my opinion, but people are people and gonna buy it, but i guess it wont have that massive of a player base, thats why they want to re release verdansk

[@jake100xx]

@@DayKlight Cod is like crack, and they've got millions hooked! The new game isn't even bad, its just the matchmaking that sucks the fun out, one game at a time. Big smiles while playing XDefiant, just pure, genuine fun.

[@Zopeee]

XDefiant also feels empty after a while, i have more fun with BO4 despite having hundreds of hours in it and it being infested with nonsense like op weapons and hackers, while not even being able to play on the DLC maps, XDefiant is fun at first but fails to have a good loop to stay and for me it also doesnt have importend things like killstreaks or medals/replacement for that. Alot of people i know think the same regarding XDefiant, like its not hopeless, but its also not realy a replacement for the old CODs, until XDefiant fixes that im not gonna play it.(Netcode etc is just ontop and makes it worse)

[@Pabloesc571]

The biggest issue is that this game is just dogshit and there's no reason anyone would want to play it

[@makinrex]

Didn’t call of duty release the SBMM data that they collected? It said that weaker SBMM leads to not as good players leaving and that’s most of the players

[@ChellSky]

finaly someone mentions it. its obvious, even just from what this person says in vid, that anti-sbmm ppl just wanna go into noob lobby and score clips (+ theres probly nostalgia glasses going on with the older games) no sbmm only benefit sweats, and their solution is to advise everyone to become sweat but the truth is most ppl will just leave the game and now the sweats are back into playing only with each other exept now the game is also dead

[@cinemapigeon4898]

Well I hope the gaming market is big enough to have SBMM options and non SBMM options. If you're pro SBMM, congrats nearly the entire modern multiplayer gaming ecosystem is tailored for you. If you're SBMM hater, you have XD and non ranked playlists in a handful of other games.

[@aridus46]

XDefiants issue is that it appealed largely to the highest skilled playerbase of CoD who were sick of SBMM. Casuals or bad players flock to CoD because they are protected by SBMM and have no reason to try a game like Xdefiant.

[@sloshykeychange5092]

this bro

[@candyman9580]

🤓

[@theRobson0908]

What i really love abt. Xdef is that i don't feel like certainly i got my hands cut of forced to play with my feet from first to 2nd game. In xdef the feeling is much more natural if i get slapped it doesn't feel like a slot machine decides i have to add a few coins to the box 😂

[@D4C_LoveTrain1]

>game releases with no SBMM >advertise to the 1% >casuals get crushed each game >1v5 stacks >why did our game die?

[@NeightrixPrime]

​@@D4C_LoveTrain1 It's advertised to the top 50%

[@NotGyroo]

I'm not sure, from my experience the more 'hardcore' shooters like R6, CS, Val have worse players, like the clueless ones you'd find on an old cod. The casual games like Cod, Apex, and Fort feel like everyone is sweaty. It seems to have flipped

[@Kaiji...]

I noticed console “casual” lobbies are significantly more skilled then on PC. When I played Overwatch, the console player base was about 3x better than the PC quickplayers. Although, it might’ve been my console account having way more time to adjust to a more accurate “secret MMR”.

[@CR4CKSM0K3R]

​@@Kaiji... idk bro i played console valorant and those players were absolute trash. Completely oblivious

[@Valkyrae123]

@@Kaiji... i agree casual console lobbies are sweatier than pc mostly because of aim assist

[@soap6264]

It's cause they don't play the same as arcade shooters like cod, xdefiant etc.. so untill you get to at least plat (I only rly play valorant so idk abt the others) most people aren't gonna understand the core aspects, sure they might have good aim, but if they don't know how to use their utill or gamesense. It doesn't matter how accurate they are because they don't see the enemy before they die (giving of the clueless vibe)

[@squad7467]

@@Valkyrae123 Games like r6 don't even have aim assist on console what are you talking about?

[@ItzAirVR]

It’s funny to think in 50 years grandparents are going to dominate video games

[@PRIMEVAL543]

High level players: play Xdefiant Xdefiant: still has sweaty lobbies High level players: "wHeRE aRe aLl sE N0oBs?¿?"

[@cinemapigeon4898]

XD while on average harder than pre MW2019 CODs is still pretty easy and accessible for average players

[@pasanaator9874]

SBMM is basically necessary to make a game playable, without it someone like me who manages to lose every engagement in a competitive FPS can only play with bots. I swear that the only time I've ever had fun in CoD was DMZ, where a majority of your opponents were bots.

[@yang139]

I think desync is also a huge reason nobody plays Xdefiant. They’ve had far too long to fix such an important issue

[@duck_entertainment]

“Wasn’t I supposed to get noob lobbies?” I may have something to tell you…

[@piztolice3459]

People take it way too seriously now since it's been monopolized. Back then every content creator just focused on getting those "funny moments" in their videos to which we as the audience were inspired from, hence video games was just a form of entertainment back then for us to have a good time.

[@djsuswbsb]

I noticed this playing fighting games back in early 2010's you were either really good or really casual and that spread to most other genres. Once YT REALLY started picking up and people were making careers around getting other people good at games with guides, frequent live streams, and coaching it's so accessible to be good at games now cause all you gotta do is just watch what other pros or streamers are doing and just replicate it.

[@diplomchiller9432]

the only missunderstanding is that dropping nukes on PC never was easy

[@diplomchiller9432]

pc allways was full of tryhards and cheaters

[@pslmountain]

@@diplomchiller9432 real

[@Chasodey]

​@@diplomchiller9432Cheater populus is heavily varied depending on the game but tryhards in shooters on PC with KBM? That's kinda classic, I like to think of myself as one of them. But I'm a bit better with flick aim rather than tracking

[@christiansmemefactory1513]

PC is more an enthusiast's platform. We played Quake 3 as kids, not really CoD, except 2003 CoD and CoD 2. ​@@diplomchiller9432

[@dogcatcher7041]

I was born and raised, brother. And somehow they decided eomm (engagement optimized match making) was the way to find matches. So a bad day can still have a game where they get wins

[@ROTMGmimighster]

Idk, we pretty much instantly went on a 50 win streak in XDefiant that only ended because my game crashed. We were queuing as a 3 stack which helps but we would never get close to that in CoD. People are sweatier on average for sure but sbmm still has a huge impact.

[@ggolden]

what an og rotmg player

[@ROTMGmimighster]

@@ggolden :)

[@gemini7665]

Gaming is like sport. Athletes have improved over time and so have gaming players.

[@dudemanem]

I like how you mentioned that content creators making more information publicly available also contributed to sweaty players.

[@Micha-Hil]

I understand what you're going for here, but the argument "These lobbies are too sweaty, I just wanna play!" wouldn't work if /everyone/ said that. Some people actually enjoy getting better at games (myself included), and they likely won't mind getting their shit stomped if they get to see people doing cool new things or using unique strategies.

[@JB-fp3fb]

Another reason (not mentioned in the video) that the skill floor has been raised so much, particularly in FPSs, is that those are all the same game. Of course people are going to be settled deep into their ruts when they've been honing the winning strat's in the same game for 20+ years. If gamers want that loose, low-stakes feeling of fun and discovery, and to be able to experiment and improve rapidly then they need to seek out green-fields game design.

[@VincentKiserGaming]

I think another reason is because of the spawn systems. You can't do anything when someone spawns right behind your location and you have no way of knowing they spawned behind you. Back in mw2 through black ops 2 you could generally tell where people were gonna spawn from because it'd be an opposite location from your team overall.

[@ch66ry88]

I think activision is scared of spawn camping and how it’ll make new players rage so that’s prolly why they fucked up the spawns

[@nukehype01]

@@ch66ry88 good map design & this wouldn't be an issue, every spawn camping map uses walll bang spots tho can you manipulate the spawns on any map with the position of teammates, I prefeed how it was for the most part but was very rough at times... rust spawn camps are the worst

[@Pegarexucorn]

@@nukehype01 It's not only map design tbh. Maps that were in previous CoDs in Bo4 were a lot easier to spawn camp on (I think because of the score/killsteaks and the faster movement, specialist, and pace of the game) than in the game they came from. For example, Slums, in my experience, was a lot more spawn campy in Bo4 than Bo2. Been years since I played it but I remember Bo4 being the worst CoD for spawn camping except for maybe WW2.

[@JohnSmith-kt3yy]

Bro mw2 and bo2 sucked when it came to spawns. You got frequently killed by a guy spawning in your ass, behind friendly lines.

[@rcinpact4480]

There’s also a HUGE increase in cheaters.

[@cheng8881]

Back in the xbox 360 days, MW2, players was still figuring stuff out, plus we did dumb/fun stuff, for example, when I saw someone camping in the corner, my buddy and I would box them in until the other team fragged us for the lulz. The screaming down the mic was EVERYTHING. Then some kids figured out quick/no scoping which annoyed the more casual players. Kids would then make full blown tutorials and post on youtube. Fortnite is a good example, 9 year old kid called Zenon, played + streamed competitively was banned for being underage. So yes, the internet made everyone a sweat.

[@lvxtu3472]

2:35 wait a minute dude. People genuinely want to match up with mfs who are way worse than them? What’s the fun in dropping 70 kills on a bunch of 5 year olds and construction workers who play the game 20 minutes a day? Genuinely why do people have a problem with skill based matchmaking I’ve never heard of this before

[@st1ng2k70]

It's the balance and skill progression that seemingly disappear, if I get a game with sbmm it's always the same, I'm as good as the enemy so after a year of playing I'll do the same against enemies; while with relaxed or no sbmm I'll manage to dunk on 75% of the lobby where it was dead even before... It feels like you're playing for no payoff, always having to sweat just for a mid round

[@theresnothinghere1745]

@@st1ng2k70 "It's the balance and skill progression that seemingly disappear" "I'm as good as the enemy so after a year of playing I'll do the same against enemies" That's just not true unless the game you're playing is barebones in terms of its mechanics. You will be playing differently even against enemies of equal skill level to you because you will have more experience under your belt and will be using the mechancis differently as a result. Fighting games show this perfectly, as people improve their win rate remains the same but their gameplay changes massively with players implementing things like conditioning, oki, conversions, that they wouldn't use before. The end result is that games become tend to become faster and much more aggresive (in most fighting games) as you watch matches up the skill bracket.

[@st1ng2k70]

@@theresnothinghere1745 im not talking playstyle, im saying that after a year of grinding i only get matched with other grinders so in my results nothing changes, theres no payoff as in: i grind so now i win 70% of the time where i used to win maybe 40 or 50%. in ranked this is absolutely fine but in pubs this means almost any opportunity to play just for fun instead of trying my best basically gets lost unless i wanna get steamrolled every game

[@theresnothinghere1745]

@@st1ng2k70 Theres no payoff because you are only focusing on your win/rate as a payoff. Also if you really dont want to grind in pubs then don't. You'll lose for a bit but then eventually you'll be matched up against groups you can beat without grinding. The issue here isn't that a casual playstyle isnt possible its that you know you can win if you try harder ao you will because you value the win more than the casual experience.

[@st1ng2k70]

@@theresnothinghere1745 that's fair but I also don't think I explained my point the way I wanted to; what I believe most ppl with this 'no/less sbmm' attitude want is just a tangible progression in pubs where you 'move up the food chain' as you progress and get better I don't want to reverse boost to stroke my ego, I just want my personal skill level put into perspective every now and again which basically NEVER happens with current, strict sbmm systems

[@checkenginelight6681]

when it comes to refering to players in non sbmm matchmaking as sweaty, good players even when playing casually will appear sweaty to casuals as they will just be more refined and held together, regardless of how tryhard they trying to be. I used to be awful in siege anbd thought people would be sweating against me in casual, then when i got my stuff together, i would be accused of tryharding even though i would be dicking around tryna hit one taps and shit.

[@theghostfacekza4549]

SBMM is a boogeyman, it's a cop out and not the problem

[@That_GuyYouTube]

SBMM exposed the players that think they were a pro but really aren’t.

[@TakeMe2UrDealer]

SBMM is hugely annoying. Ever played with a group of friends who are of varying degrees of skill, and then someone decides that's enough games for one day because they can't keep up, and suddenly the night's plans are in jeopardy? I can't play with half my friends anymore without someone getting frustrated because the game is only interested in keeping you playing for as long as possible, and when you're constantly coming home from work, playing one match where you dominate without really taking it seriously, then put into sweaty lobbies afterwards because the SBMM has caught up, then it becomes annoying. I want to play against people of varying degrees of skill, at my level all I see are the same meta loadouts and operator skins, no match is unique.

[@marvinbecker3153]

Best example for casual play is battlefield. There are way more hardcore players then in cod, still every game feels chill with many different skill levels amongst the players. I reversed boosted shit in MW3 and the lobby’s you will see are worse then mw1 bo1 etc ever was.

[@bonehed1]

This is more to do with the player count per match than anything. 32vs32 is a lot more chaotic than 8v8 or 4v4. There's way more random nonsense happening and the maps are way bigger. You go into the modern COD big team games and they're almost as casual as Battlefield

[@marvinbecker3153]

@@bonehed1 tdm in bf is the same.

[@ShadeAnris]

The random Cod gameplay from Maxillion dood is not something I thought I’d see

[@shianemi7595]

ive been playing siege like nonstop since 2019 and it seriously feels like i have to be aim training and keeping up w the game constantly or else ill stop being able to perform well in game and lose interest in something i really enjoy

[@fanatic_hobo839]

You're not getting worse, but you just run into a lot more cheaters. Cronus Zen is what is killing siege. The fact is that it's even sold in gamestop, and walmart is diabolical

[@zeged]

@@fanatic_hobo839 Don't think chronus is a thing on pc but there is recoil cheats but they are pretty rare to come across yesterday there was a copper skill level player in my standard game with wall hacks and silent aim which curves bullets

[@comradesillyotter1537]

There's no harm in going casual or playing more casual games. No ome is going to judge you for it but you

[@shianemi7595]

@@comradesillyotter1537 i played casual for the first like 4 years i started playing siege. its not a casual game anymore but i wish it was because the fast paced gameplay was more fun. but wym casual games

[@MajorMeowzer]

In fortnite I feel like everyone just doesnt EVER miss a single shot anymore

[@lukkkasz323]

I think this says more about the game, can that game even be more casual than it already is?

[@JohnSmith-kt3yy]

Bro fortnite players are WILD. They are the most cracked players I have ever seen. My kid cousin is so fricking good at fortnite, he's on console and Im on pc. We had a 1v1 once and I thought I would wreck him with kb/m but god damn he destroyed me and built the burj khalifa while doing it.

[@majesticglass]

We are better a video games. Accruement of gaming basics is something my friend proposed to me some years ago, saying that two new players to a game will have vastly different skill levels, because of experience with previous video games. I understood it as his way of saying I'm good at video games

[@frankzander6234]

But it genuinely true. If I play and get good at a shooter I will have an easier time learning a new one

[@p0k3mn1]

People are too good for me to even have fun playing games anymore. The idea of any game not having SBMM sounds like hell I can’t imagine a less fun experience. I don’t care if it’s a skill issue, it’s not fun for me. And I want to have fun. And it’s even an issue in single player games now. Tried Elden ring because the game was pretty and its gameplay looked fun. Couldn’t even get past the first boss and I couldn’t get a refund so there goes 60 bucks :/

[@berkeeonyoutube]

go explore the world and level up, elden ring is built around that. when you can't progress explore, gather new weapons, skills and level up it'll help

[@p0k3mn1]

@ I can’t progress anywhere in Elden ring it’s simply too hard. I miss when games were simpler like Skyrim

[@lemonscentedgames3641]

From soft games are intentionally not for everyone. Same way deep multiplayer games like CS, LoL, Melee, MvC2, SC2 are not for everyone. Not everyone is going to be able to read an 1000 page book and annotate and learn the meaning every sentence, but some people appreciate insane depth within their art. Theres always books like twilight that are semi long and appeal to people who arent really book readers but want to appear as one. Same goes for games.

[@andrzejnadgirl2029]

And Fromsoftware games are done for players who missed the older times before Skyrim when games weren't as simple funnily enough. It's oldschool design.

[@p0k3mn1]

@@lemonscentedgames3641 then they shouldn’t make their games look appealing to everyone. It’s a pretty game with good gameplay. Don’t market it and design it like it’s for everyone if it’s not. The game appears to be very approachable for people like me atleast looking from the outside. And they scammed me out of 60 bucks because of that. Games like CS and LOL ARE for everyone though. There’s a reason these are objectively the 2 most popular PC games for the last entire decade.

[@alimac5926]

You don't have to deal with sbmm when you only play with the same players In he last remaining Australian lobby in bf1

[@LadySniperSwaggYT]

My thing is, is that it is hard to be a casual gamer now. You can’t just hop on a game once a week and expect to compete. I recently played Destiny 2 PvP after a while and I was getting dunked. It seems like nowadays you have to be committed to only playing 1 game or you will fall behind. Especially when you have people using the most op build possible and abusing the movement system. This is why BO6 is receiving mixed views. You already have people sweating the beta, turning the casual audience away hard. Sweats have ruined the casual experience especially when they may have 1000+ hours on one game.

[@bc9866]

I don't think this is true, but you do need culminative experience and the ability to adapt on the fly. 2006 CoD kiddies now have nearly two decades of experience, so anything similar to CoD is going to be easier for them to adjust to and reach their peak much faster. If you don't have the experience or the adaptability it's best to just pick something that is really new and fresh. The problem is the masses don't want fresh and unfamiliar games because it's out of their comfort zone and they won't be good at it.

[@LadySniperSwaggYT]

@@bc9866 I get where you’re coming from. COD in of itself is not a hard game to master. But those are really good have been playing since the late 2000s and have accumulated skill. The same thing could be said about CSGO. My point still stands about the casual gamer. Take some like me who rarely plays COD but other FPS (titan fall, destiny, OW). Some of those mechanics still translate to Cold War (the only cod I play) but it gets to a point where I won’t be able to hold my own unless I’m putting in hours into the game. No reason for to be in a lobby with a 4 stack that’s all lvl 2500 when I’m level 80. There needs to be some type of middle ground and there isn’t. It’s either you play sweaty or lose to someone playing sweaty

[@colinmcmasters5819]

I thought there was SBMM in COD. Isn't it pairing you with bad players after doing badly over and over?

[@piellamp]

​@@bc9866u do lose some skill when u don't play enough/often enough in certain games With features such as sbmm it might feel like u suddenly suck cuz u havent touched the game for a month I still support sbmm though its just one small downside of it So if u had a lot of time last month where ur skill increased but then after a month or 2 u want to pick up the game again it becomes incredibly hard. The good thing is if u commit to it you will eventually get ur skill back but often life comes in the way and the ability to commit or motivation isn't there anymore

[@blumelein9780]

The biggest problem for me is that nowadays only a few players want to have fun while playing. Most People think that they need to win, even if they dont enjoy it. Oh and if you want to have fun, forget it, the enemy will do everything they can to ruin your life. Thats why I have quit PvP games.

[@AirventOS]

I dont play shooters, but whole sbmm debate always just sounds like "Man, I used to win without trying, and now I need to try!" So to to hear that even without sbmm, people are still complaining about sweats kinda makes me chuckle.

[@DanMann-c5m]

Activision even put out a white paper showing that sbmm benefits everyone

[@NeightrixPrime]

You couldn't be more wrong, but with that pretentious attitude you're obviously not interested in correction.

[@AirventOS]

​@@NeightrixPrimeI mean, no. I don't mind hearing you out. Does that mean I would automatically agree with you? Not necessarily. I just disagree with the philosophy a lot of proponents for no sbmm have.

[@hydrolll1432]

@@AirventOSMost people’s problem isn’t “I used to win without trying” it’s I don’t see how I’m improving if I’m stuck with the same people all the time improving at the same rate. Think of it like this. No SBM: You and 4 other friends start playing basketball and are terrible. You can see just how bad you are because you’re playing against people who have played for a year. You learn new skills from watching these opponents and soon you incorporate them into your own playstyle. Now you and your 5 friends have been playing for 5 years and you go up against people playing for 1. You’re gonna notice a huge difference and skill and while it not be “fair” or whatever people wanna call it, it’s showing that you put time and effort into wanting to become better. SBMM: You and your 5 friends just start playing basketball and are going up against other 5 people who just started with you. Yeah you’ll noticeably see yall suck and over time yall will all start to make more shots. Now these are the only type of people you play against who are playing how you play and you never see actual good players play (which is what no sbmm does as casuals never see the sweats play as they are protected in their bracket). You’ll learn to make shots and all that but if you start making shots and making plays that the other team is exactly doing, how do you know you’ve improved enough to say that the time and effort was worth it? Every game from now on is neck and neck because you and your opponent are doing the exact same thing and you’ll never get the feeling of I’ve put so much work and dedication I can go 50-10 because I’ve worked so hard to get to that level. It’s hard to explain but that’s best I can

[@Guirko]

​@@NeightrixPrime Wow, rude. It's totally reasonable for a non-shooter player to have that impression.

[@aidancocking4014]

Learning off other people, is still learning. Imitating some pro player definitely gives u an understanding of how and why they do something in a particular way.

[@Supersonicspyro]

Sbmm doesn't need to entirely disappear, its just the way it's currently implemented in a strict fashion that is terrible, some level of it is fine, but not to the degree where its essentially no different from a ranked playlist, making having both a public and ranked playlist redundant as the experience of both is identical, one you opt in too the sweat, the other frustrates you for giggles

[@hellobye5952]

I agree. The thing is even if SBMM is taken away from the casual version of a game its not exactly great, yea some people who have played cod a bit in the past cant keep up with the people who have played for way longer but think of the brand new players to cod or even gaming in general, think about how they will feel going up against the people who only played cod for a little bit, they will look like pros in their eyes. SBMM cant satisfy everyone, but if implemented correctly it can keep bad players in bad player lobbies, and other players in their respective lobbies as well. There will always be a bigger fish, no matter how long you've been playing or how good you are.

[@ZorroVulpes]

I think a lot of it is people expect games to be more passive, and a lot of you forgot how to have fun not being the best, so you call anyone better than you a sweat while refusing to learn how to aim, throw grenades, etc

[@VisonsofFalseTruths]

I mean, it’s never fun to lose over and over and over. I remember trying Smash Ultimate online for the first time. I lost literally every match. Now I’m not a GREAT Smash player. I’m pretty good, good enough to hold my own in my friend group usually. But I played for two hours and lost every single match. And not by like, a little bit. A close match is hella exciting. I was nowhere close. When the average player is making spreadsheets about framedata with no intention of ever playing in tournaments, THAT is sweat.

[@HJDSimon]

Completely agree. This has always been my sentiment, and I hate the term "sweat". It's people complaining about others caring too much about the result of a game, which in itself shows that they themselves are caring a lot about the result. It's so hypocritical and whiny. As you say, if you don't like being bad at something, take efforts to improve. If not, then either learn to enjoy the simple act of playing, or stop moaning. It's like there's a whole generation who've grown up with the mentality that they should win a lot without trying.

[@drdca8263]

@@HJDSimonSo, in 1v1 games, I think I can be fairly content if I win like, 1 in 6 matches? But if I lose 10 times in a row and the matches aren’t close, I’m probably not having a good time. (Unless the matches take on the order of seconds to play or something) I think handicap systems are often good, at least in person where players can agree on what handicaps are appropriate based on their relative skill levels. Though I would guess that assigning handicaps automatically as an online thing probably doesn’t work very well? Though it would be interesting to see a game *try* that as an alternative to SBMM? I suspect it wouldn’t work as well, and so probably not worth anyone’s while to attempt it, seeing as how much of an investment it is making a game with *any* kind of online matchmaking, But, I would be curious to see if it could, contrary to my expectations, be done well.

[@chillinchum]

​@@HJDSimon Here's some food for thought. I have an older brother, 3 years difference. We would play smash 64. And, he *had* to win. I just wanted to play. Guess what occurred. He would dominate me so much, that I couldn't get a single edge in. It didn't matter if I didn't win (as nice as it would be), it would have sucked to not even get a single stock on him. But that would have been better than just being completely destroyed and not being able to do anything about it. Not being able to learn, not being able to play, nothing. Even if I was learning, he was learning faster. It was simply no fun at all, and I didn't want to play anymore. It made me have a scrub phrase, now that's an old one you might not have heard of, so short story on it: it's a rather uncompetitive gaming mindset that at it's extreme is in favour of taking away everything a competitive player likes or can even use, and having mechanics like tripping in smash brawl, completely arbitrary rng, or excessive comeback mechanics like in mario kart and Mario party, "noob tubes" or other such things, and essentially it can ruin games for people in the exact same way, but for the exact opposite reasons. People complain about casualisation but there were reasons some devs were being so heavy handed with that approach to game design in the 00s. The 90s could be surprisingly sweaty too, in the smaller online communities, and some neighborhoods offline, even if it was in a somewhat different way and degree. Some had "that one player" everyone else had to gang up on, and sometimes that player would still dominate everyone. My anecdote is not necessarily unique at all, every now and again I hear about someone completely unable to learn while playing a fighting game because they don't even have a chance to. Whenever I find out that I'm hugely above in ability over someone else I play with, I purposely gimp my own ability to ensure they can have fun, I offer help to them, etc. I've heard there were in fact arcades where skilled players taught others, tournament environments, etc. instead of the toxicity you see far too much of in the days of only playing against someone once in an online lobby, and rarely ever again.

[@alphagamma1289]

​@@chillinchumgreat discussion. I think it boils down to that winning feels so good and losing feels so bad in competitive games, that people neglect encouraging others to get better (like not trying 100%). After all, isn't it more fun if you beat someone close in skill? Sometimes people like stomping too much, it's why we get smurfs and the OP friend at the smash party

[@donutstudios6353]

i have a matchmaking system- so basically each game half the players are on your rank, and the other half can be slightly above or below. every game you queue into it will alternate between making the other half of the lobby above or below your skill level. and for the players in your lobby that are above your skill level for them this is one of their games where half of the players are below, and vice versa

[@AdrianGK47]

Back in Mw2 it was normal to respect good players but these days its hard to respect anything with how sbmm skews things, it just feels like the soul of competition is gone. I want ALMOST no sbmm (think it should be a wide range sbmm where people who can barely hold a controller aren't gonna match against me) because it doesn't allow a flow of natural skill progression, and punishes people for wanting to learn how to be good at the game. Ya know, the whole point of the game, having fun practicing and getting better.

[@thuglife2ea424]

Yea nobdy is tryna have fun tho everybdy is tryna get the best equipment with the best screen n best settings with best guns n best attachments 😂 maybe if yall woukd chill out we wouldn't need sbmm

[@AdrianGK47]

@thuglife2ea424 1. SBMM is not needed, at all. Only thing that needs SBMM is a ranked mode. 2. SBMM / EOMM would exist regardless; it's about extracting the most amount of money from consumers, not what's right for the game. 3. People will always optimize things in every facet of life. 4. People wanting better equipment advances the industry and helps everyone. It doesn't mean they're tryharding, for example, I have an expensive PC setup with an ultrawide monitor, and my most used weapon is a crossbow. I just like my shit looking better, whether it's an fps or a single player game. 5. If there was no SBMM, tryhards would actually play ranked which would have it, and if they don't, they'd be seen as cringe and you can roast them for tryharding in the non tryhard mode.

[@cezarstefanseghjucan]

All complaints about SBMM are from the ones who cannot perform.

[@jake100xx]

​@@thuglife2ea424 Respectfully, SBMM is the main reason why everyone is using meta loadouts and trying to get an advantage wherever possible. It encourages everyone in the lobby to try even harder

[@thuglife2ea424]

@@jake100xx cap metta been around lol when tf did u start playing cod? N streamers jus made it worst figuring out the best possible attachments n perks etc. Ppl jus wanna go 50 n 0 if they could I'm not buying this "I jus wanna play casually " bs kuz I den seen countless ppl clearly better than everybdy in lobby jus dog wall everybdy they wasn't playing casually lol

[@ProsperityNBliss]

9:31 LMAO i got you bro, loved the vid

[@Yeags]

Thanks dude💪

[@xtremefps_]

​@@Yeagsgotchu too

[@StrajaDanGG]

Definitely agree with the video, I used to play league of legends 10 years ago and today. Its such a huge difference in skill even in the same elo

[@MrStardust91]

Are people better? That is debatable. Our exp. and tools improved drastically but if we give these tools and exp. to a gamer from decades ago they would wreak havoc too I guess. And nowadays handholding in games is so much. If we are better then not much help is needed. That is why I love Souls games.

[@clobzz]

You’re probably right, like beat saber is a great example of this because overtime new mods and tech has come out to make the game not necessarily easier, but easier to get the hang of, and mapping has changed to not be so aids and rather be challenging but good rather than challenging because its bad

[@TheMelnTeam]

I think better is used in absolute sense, not relative. Today's average is leagues better due to more knowledge and resources. If you normalize against that, the people with the most talent and correct practice methods will win in each era. If you time travel a top player from 20 years ago, he'd become a top player again using new tech pretty fast. However, it is also true that if you sent a rando from today back that guy would wreck other randos. Today's median player simply has more hours and more info...plus a generation they could learn from. When I was a kid, there were practically no adults who were decent at video games. That's not true for people in their 20s now.

[@benrex7775]

I know a decent amout about games but I rarely play them myself. When I played Assassins creed with a frined of mine for the first time, I was disappointed how easy it was to parkour in there. Last Friday I played mirrors edge with him and I told him, that I expected assassins creed to be like that. As a casual gamer at best I expect to fail for the first few hours or more. If I don't then I feel like the game is just some cheap product that isn't worth its money. Imagine you go play soccer with some professionals and you can keep up with them. You will be really disappointed and loose all the respect you had before playing with them.

[@sciencegaming5450]

Dota 1 around 2004 was best gaming experience I ever had. No tutorials, room for innovation for example my friend showed up with this new crazy idea of only hitting minions when they are about to die, he figured out last hit at a time no one last hitted, everyone just auto attacked.

[@natelavallee4034]

7:04 yooooo huge shoutout big tugg

[@The_Bible_Camp_Victim]

TUGGLETS ASSEMBLE!!!!

[@JoseDiaz-rd5qb]

Its funny becuase this happened in World of Warcraft. Blizzard released the classic (2004) version of the game in 2019. People coming back for the nostalgia, that hadnt played in years couldnt keep up with folks coming from private servers who had the game down to a science or even regular retail wow players who had never played, but developed habits playing the harder modern version of the game (understanding theres a meta, what stats to stack, which item drops to prioritize, etc) that helped them close the gap faster than folks who played it back in the day.

[@rancidmarshmallow4468]

If there is a difference, it's that the people who were getting farmed for killstreaks now have a dozen free options to leave to. Little bobby didn't know how bad he was and he wasn't getting another game till Christmas, so he stuck around getting stomped until he got good or got another $60 game. Now, why would anyone stick around?

[@chrislabedzski9076]

Definitely yes,, multiplayer is has become many times harder then ever before, especially when people do whatever it takes to win and i do mean everything,, i had to quit multiplayer 2 years ago, and my in my 33 year old age,,, i can no longer keep up no more, im overshadowed and outmatched, but at least i can still play my single player games the games i used to play when i was younger such as crash bandicoot, oddworld, and dead space,

[@mmkanashiro]

the reason games are harder now is that gamers have been dealing with sbmm for so long they had to adapt, learn new techs and train their aim, now that they already have this knowledge they will apply it on every other game the environment around you change you, you become what you surrounded of

[@ulurius]

Who would've thought that being matched by skill would make people better

[@cezarstefanseghjucan]

@@uluriusIt will, because you are always challenged.

[@ulurius]

@@cezarstefanseghjucan I know, I was being sarcastic

[@sleepycCh]

@@uluriusThis is the thing. If you wish to be the best player you can be, you want to be paired against players that can challenge you. SBMM works for most players except a small minority who wants to feel good about themselves and don’t get that feeling from advancing in ranked systems. And the “problems” with SBMM all seem to happen to stem from that. Perhaps because it’s more of a delayed gratification but yeah. I mean there’s also the point you need to sweat every game to perform well. But then you relax SBMM and players will experience some cakewalks and some really tough challenges other games and apparently that’s not fun either. So these players need to choose which they want. Sweaty every game or cakewalks sometimes and get stomped some others? Because again I think the feeling they got in COD games years ago isn’t coming back

[@Abattoir23]

​@@uluriusThis. The Olympic games didnt change, but the skill level massively increased over the past decades.

[@PhasedPrism]

And this is why, as a guy in his late 30's, I have Urban Dictionary on my bookmarks toolbar. Cracked? Sweaty? Hearing the kids use terms I don't understand makes me feel old. Insert the Simpsons grandpa "It'll happen to you" meme here.

[@bimapriyoanugerah363]

People are more miserable in this age and will try hard in the game to get something in life. That's the reason why people good nowadays in gaming, and why gaming is stale in this age

[@chipotlesnumber1stan]

i know you made this point in the video but i also lowkey feel like people had a lot of time on their hands due to 2020/2021 lockdown. this caused many gamers to become glued to..well….their video games! (specifically fps). thus causing the playerbase to become more and more sweaty and adapting to their lobbies.

[@QuickStang5o]

Aim Assist. Don't deny it. There's a reason everyone seems cracked in CoD. When you have 60% aimbot the second you enter the opponents "bubble", things get WAY easier.

[@ExTremZero]

Aim Assist doesnt make you a better player, it assists your aim. If you dont have aim to begin with it cant help you.

[@conorhughes101]

If you want to see good aim look at aim labs and voltaic players in the top 10 like Matty ow, people in 2008 weren't half as good as the average players today

[@roar104]

​@@ExTremZeroit assists the same way using a car to drive a marathon instead of running can be called assistance. Try turning it off once in cod and you'll see how much it "helps"

[@SKUNK_The_underdog]

Aim assist isn’t new. Aim assist is non factor in games like valorant, R6, CS ect. It’s needed for movement shooters, take it away and the floor is too high for new player retention. Tldr: if you care so much play games with out it 😂

[@ExTremZero]

@@roar104 try killing players in distance without aim assist and compare this with a mouse player.

[@nvidiaplay]

I learned it painful way when i came from cs where i had LEM rank (legendary eagle master ig) to valorant where i was literally washed in gold lobbies by the fact how fast they were able to shoot heads

[@dillanikobe495]

The state of gaming is the state of our society

[@danshakuimo]

Asians when they were playing competitive irl before they became competitive gamers 💀

[@magickaldood]

I certainly haven't gotten any better.

[@Bolt451]

The thing this video misses is that the old cod and fps’s like halo were like that not because there was no sbmm but because sbmm was tuned in a different way everyone isn’t just better the objective of sbmm changed from being for fun to for personal skill growth.

[@BraydenBomb2006]

more like financial gain 😂😂

[@GamerNym]

I remember playing fighting games like Soul Calibur 2, DBZ Budokai, and Smash Melee back in the early 2000s. Back then concepts like frame data weren't even a thought in my brain. Now? Mastering that feels like the skill floor.

[@coycoy4736]

This is clickbait.. the average K/d is 0.8..... nobody is good. SBMM just showed people what competitive gaming is... people wants to pub stomp.. there is no longer casual gaming if you are good.

[@fitmotheyap]

Wouldn't *average* K/D be 1.0? It's impossible for that to change, maybe you are looking for median

[@coycoy4736]

@@fitmotheyap No, the average K/D is 0.8 between all players.. 1 k/d means 1 kill to death ratio, not that thats the set average.. lol

[@NailNB]

@@fitmotheyapwhen you get to middleschool pay attention in math class you will learn about mean median and mode mean is the average (1 2 3)->(1+2+3)/3[amount of numbers]=2 median is the middle value (1 2 3)=2 mode is the most common value (1 2 3 3)=3 the average kd being 0.8 illudes(hints) the to fact good players are considerably better or more common [in this case theyre not] than bad players shut up Im procrastinating university work!

[@fitmotheyap]

@@NailNB idk english isn't my main language and our translations for some math terms is god horrid, good to know

[@JohnSmith-kt3yy]

I mean, just because the avg kd is 0.8 doesnt mean peoples skill as a whole aint good. You could have the sickest fight using all utilities and movement and still die. Kd doesnt really say much at all when it comes to overall skill.

[@neutral5086]

My dad who's in his 50s started playing cod back in mw2, back then despite playing regularly he had trouble moving and aiming at the same time, now I see him sliding around corners, getting shot from behind and turning on people and all kinds of stuff I didn't think he was capable of. Plus watching pros play now vs years ago seems like pros are more skilled too (like drop a modern pro in a old mw2 pro lobby and the modern pro would top). Everyone seems to be raising in skill over time to some degree

[@xCodeh]

You have a great voice for commentary and this vid was really well edited and entertaining. Keep it up man you'll be at 100k subs in no time

[@xXxThelegend27xXx]

Yooo didn’t expect to see you here 😄

[@Yeags]

Thanks brother! Glad you enjoyed!

[@R4V3-0N]

Something I noticed at least with modern arena shooters is the immediate shock of entering a game with lots of skilled players (or sweaty depending on perspective) can make it unbearable to get past the 'noobie' phase, it is difficult to love a game when you are often at the bottom of a scoreboard back to back with single digit scores or (in my case for some games, negative scores as I had such a skill issue I died and got penalized attempting to use the mobility mechanics of the game). When you have 10, 50, or 100 hours in a game that you try so hard to enjoy and still walk out of matches being able to count the kills you had on one hand and can't count your deaths between two it makes it so easy to turn around and abandon the game than it is to push forward. This can also contribute to a degree on some games skill ecosystems.

[@PhilTruthborne]

Honestly i think the best matchmaking we ever had was..... no matchmaking. Dead serious. When we picked servers ourselves and if you didn't enjoy your time you dropped out and picked another one. Why did we abandon peak in favor of convenience?

[@a_paperweight]

I also think the modern breadth of genres also means that many gamers who would suck can find a game that they can succeed in Factorio, and by extension the entire factory game genre, not counting the Minecraft mods that inspired it, was only released in 2016, and only left early access in 2020

[@michaelbergeron2332]

Great video man

[@Yeags]

Thanks dude glad you enjoyed

[@_Ve_98]

Another big issue is that games have turned ranked into a thing to grind. Ranking systems are meant to ensure a fair experience and allow you to track your progress, not something to game and try to surpass. But companies found out that with a few nudges and making the rank system far worse, they could easily get people to grind the game to reach their actual level, making them play more and pay more. The problem is that this makes games far sweatier because rank stops being a simple measurement and instead becomes a time investment that people try to optimize. Rank being lost after seasons and taking many games to achieve (with no skill improvement involved) is inexcusable. We have algorithms to calculate rank quickly and account for improvement and yet we don't really use them.

[@soulreaper2557]

My problem with SBMM is that I can't be consistent. I'm not gonna be playing the same way I was yesterday. I don't want to be that cracked out junkie everyday. I need a break.

[@frankzander6234]

Then just play relaxed for a bit and you will get matched vs worse opponents after a few losses. Matchmaking works both ways if you lose a lot you will be able to compete without having to give it your all

[@deeelle6567]

The thing is that with any pvp game, people want to win, but they don't want have to try hard to win. They want to mostly be paired with people not as good as them so they can dominate lobbies. Most people don't want to admit this, but they want to win without it being competitive. They want the truly competitive people to play in ranked modes while they pub stomp in casual mode. This is also why many people have started smurfing or deranking into order to easily destroy players who are not as good as they are.

[@Innocinho]

The problem with sbmm is that groups of friends with different skill levels can’t enjoy the game together anymore. My friend group has 0,5 to 0,8 k/d players and 1,3 to 2+ k/d players in pre sbmm cod. This group can’t play together anymore without the low skilled players suffering. Also I feel like sbmm should be tot keep below 0,5 players away from the rest or for ranked play. Matchmaking for casual modes should be connection based for the best experience.

[@cakes9962]

i played cod from 2009 to 2016 mainly, from ghosts on 8 had a 2.5kd, i was very good but not insane. I played mw19 and got infinitely better (i would just instantly flick and kill anyone), but my kd was a 2.4. Whenever i tried to play with anyone else (1kd players) they would just suffer (they would end 7-18 while i could easily end 37-8), so i played alone that game for like 2 years. Also siege is hard to play with any newcomer as the skill gap is just too large

[@Innocinho]

@@cakes9962 the thing that made cod fun for me was playing with friends and having fun nights. Now some of them are stressed because they’re having bad games when in a party.

[@thuglife2ea424]

Ya comment makes 0 sense u say the low ranked can't play with u because they suffer but if u removed sbmm they would still suffer right? 😂😂

[@cakes9962]

@@thuglife2ea424 they suffer excesively.

[@Innocinho]

@@thuglife2ea424 not as much as they are now. Instead of 0,5-0,8 kd they have 0,5and lower kd when playing with higher skilled players

[@gameguy301]

“I just want to smoke a bowl and play a troll setup but still stomp people like it’s 2008” it’s a fantasy built on cherry picked memories and nostalgia. If you want to live out that fantasy again go play some bot matches, it’s not on the rest of the world to play patsy so you can chase that dragon.

[@raxroc3887]

Yes. Before, the focus on playing video games was for fun. Now, its who can kill the most, win the most and be the best there is.

[@darkdudironaji]

My friend and I got to Platinum 2 on Team Flight Tactics last season. We were pretty proud of ourselves. My sweaty friend said, "Platinum is easy. I get at least diamond every season." Yeah, you also don't have a job. Play a dozen games per day, minimum. Watch streamers to find out the best build and strategy every season. Pay attention to the balance patches. We're a couple of dudes that work a lot and play 3 or 4 games per week. I feel like we have the right to be proud that we figured out how to get that high without doing any of the work you do every single season.

[@yarincool1237]

Yes absolutley, even playing unranked in games is sweaty af, the thing that made me way better and more sweaty as well lol is going from a 60hz to 144hz monitor.

[@chronozeta]

People switched to 144hz in 2014 bro.. Its not a benchmark like you think it would be

[@yarincool1237]

@@chronozeta no lol, almost everyone still had 60hz in 2017 and only 2019 is when I feel it started to get popular, I upgraded in 2021.

[@syankha8329]

​@@chronozeta I used a 2015 laptop all the way to 2022, only having 60hz monitor while having 60-80 fps was enough for me to wreak havoc back then. I was good mechanical wise and gamesense wise, being able to achive more than 1 kd in all games while having high rank such as being diamond 1 consistently in r6 all the way to 2019. It mostly depends on the player in my perspective, as their skill is the baseline, while their setup is an improving factor. I play games to the best of my abilities while also focusing on enjoyment, so i don't care if i lose or win, i just try to do my best and it works out most of the time and i still had fun even if i am competitive gaming.

[@JohnSmith-kt3yy]

I honestly think the hz change is just placebo, but if you feel better, hell yeah

[@Radishindependent]

dude gave the answer in the first sentence or phrase " in the past few decades" i think thats how long it usually takes for people to catch on and start getting better at things

[@MoveLove427]

Glad someone said this. SBMM's impact on competitive shooters has been blown way out of proportion.

[@CrNcHyFROG5]

Nah it hasn't been blown out of porportion, games just won't be freelo bot lobbies like some people thought. Like Yeags said, and I firmly agree, XD still is much more fun and casual than a modern SBMM CoD. Even if it isn't quite as easy and casual as it would have been 13 years ago. If anything those arguing in favor of SBMM have been blowing the "without SBMM, everyone will get stomped into oblivion and quit the game" comments out of the water, since the new players aren't as terrible as they make them out to be. Just my two cents, have a good day!

[@DarthJF]

Back when I was kid, gaming was a pretty solitary hobby. You mostly played games by yourself and figured them out yourself or with your group of friends at school who were playing the same games. If you were "hardcore gamer", maybe you found some cool secrets in a magazine article or strategy guide book that you could flex on your friends. If you got good in a game it was because you played it over and over and over again till you had learned it inside out through trial and error. Now people can freely share their knowledge on the internet and whenever I try to learn some new game, there are in-depth guides and tutorial videos that digest every game mechanic, tactic and exploit in existence and how to pull them off. Finding the information you need to get good at something has never been easier. On high skill ceiling games you still need to learn to apply that information into practice, but the skill floor has risen considerably.

[@MrThewetsheep]

The entire attitude towards multiplayer games and even non competitive games has entirely changed. Instead of getting on to have fun do/use what you want people look at the game as a puzzle to be solved. Figure out the best weapons most meta spots, techniques that you need to be doing, actions to be performed at X stage of a match. People just care about finding the most optimal way to play in order to win each match, that’s it.

[@kingol4801]

This

[@alexchng]

Only halfway through this video, but this reminds me of the transformation the playerbase went through in League of Legends over its lifetime. As players got better, and the best players gained visibility through streaming/pro play, the playerbase as a whole started learning and improving accordingly. Kinda just seems like the nature of gaming or sports

[@ericlorenzen4795]

Not all games are sweaty. If you play casual you'll hang low in sbmm and go 50/50 while playing chill. It only becomes sweaty if you choose to play that way.

[@Lilitha11]

There is actually two skills involved here. The specific skill for a game(which may translate to similar games, like shooter to shooter), and a general gaming sense. Regardless if you have a lot of free time to improve game specific skills, people in general have a higher level of general gaming sense, since people have been playing games since they were young children. With that general gaming sense, you pick up new games more quickly.

[@cakes9962]

the problem is also that mastering fps games like cod, bf, or any other shooter of that kind is really easy. The skill ceiling is not that high. Getting very good aim and good reaction times is all that you need to dominate any cod. Around 2015 i got bored of cod, since i already mastered it, switched to bf4, then bf1 and bfv and easily dominated there too, it was when i switched to r6s in 2017 that i struggled and had to learn how to shoot without any assist and the rest of the game stategies to get good at it. I think that more complex shooters should come into the market and snatch already very good players by posing a new challenge. Edit: I also played a lot of mw19 and got nasty good there too to the point that for like 18 months straight the game would match me against the same 4-5 people almost all the time.

[@onyxgilbert6579]

This is true as long as you can aim you can literally beat like 90% of players.

[@moosecannibal8224]

What about... tactics+skill based matchmaking? find a way to track player actions, and use that to match players with teammates that do similar things to encourage strategical play? use skill based matchmaking to find an enemy team? maybe a dumb idea, but it's something

[@karl3791]

RIP BOZO.