Are Power Meters Useful For Mountain Biking?

[@russianpeanutbutter2603]

more chris and xc stuff on gmbn please

[@SirDinksAlot]

I've been training with a power meter (Stages non-drive side) crank on my XC bike along with HR for 5yrs or so. Usefulness completely depends on the course or what type of training your doing that day. On the MTB I use 3sec power combined with normalized power in 5-10min chunks. Instantaneous and average power aren't that useful. It's super helpful for me when I'm doing Marathon or Ultra Endurance length races for keeping me at a proper pace, especially early in the race when I feel too good. ;-) The biggest benefit for me is the ability to compare it with HR. Watching HR drift, is HR running high or low. Form, fatigue, over/under training, illness, the effect temps or elevation have on you, etc.. Heck you can usually see when an illness is about to hit days before you get any symptoms. It just adds so many tools to your bag that aren't directly related to raw power output.

[@darcyphillips70]

Clear as mud 😂 I’ll just keep peddling, sending and recovering... safe in the knowledge I’m getting some exercise but more importantly I’m having fun

[@beardedvikingmtber]

Darcy Phillips I’m with you bud 🤙🏻

[@richardhaselwood9478]

Reading the comments, it's great to see that Luddites aren't restricted to roadies.....

[@ltrtg13]

I would find my Garmin wouldn't show my power. It would show "you have more money than sense".

[@mikicastan]

Its very handy in winter. Sell turbotrainer to buy mtb PM and spend winter time on xc trails

[@bentyler5704]

I read the title and was like Why Just why, just started a channel and you guys got me into mountain biking so thanks!

[@petersimmonds3057]

I’d always wear a HRM alongside a power meter. If you want the best output data from training/racing run both.

[@spinnekopje]

Just like with heart rate monitors: only a limited amount of people really know how to use the data to create a better result compared to what you could reach without them. There is a reason why some of them are paid that good. If you have the money at hand and want to spend it on a power meter, just do it. If you have other things that are also important to you, remove the power meter of the list quickly. Don't forget that power output, just like heart rate is something that changes if you train in a good or bad way. If you notice your power output is increasing while you are still able to sing a song, you know you are improving, you could also notice that in your speed, but speed depends a lot more on the terrain, weather conditions (wind..). That is a big advantage of a good power meter. The heart rate you can reach while still being able to sing will most probably also have been changed. Otherwise said: if you want to use that data during training, you need to have the knowledge how to detect to correct values to use yourself or have someone that knows how to use it and tell you about the changes. Do not trust a device to do so correctly, the average person is the average and is not you (unless you are very lucky). It is also important to know that having stress, being ill, not enough sleep etc influence the amount of power in relation to your heart rate you can deliver, so never forget to include the 'data' about how you feel in the total amount of data you have at your disposal. A final note: you don't need those things to have fun in the field/forests/..

[@adventuresona700dollarhard5]

Great video! I'm shopping for a power meter to train for this year's Maah Daah Hey 100. Spin to win!

[@gustavb6062]

Great topic, the problem is the lack of mtb specifik power meters on the market. I Suggest a Garmin edge 830 and a heart strap before you go all in on a powermeter. Cheers

[@beardedvikingmtber]

Interesting video but I’m still none the wiser about power meters 😂

[@vincef7487]

Thank you for saying that. I found myself just watching these two talk, but the words they were saying flew over my head ...then my glazed over half way through. 😳

[@adventuresona700dollarhard5]

Power meters measure your power output when you pedal. It measures your torque, RPM's and watts. Remember the bicycle that powered the lightbulb? It's the same thing. You can use those numbers to test your Functional Threshold Power, which is basically how many watts you can consistently produce for an hour straight (how bright you can get the light bulb, and for how long). You can then use your FTP to create workouts within your threshold, to make you stronger, faster and increase your stamina. This system is world's better than going it alone. It's the equivalent of putting numbers on gym weights. Let's say you want to increase your explosive power, like going up a punchy climbs, or burst pedaling into jumps. You can do 30/30's, which is sprinting at around 90% of your FTP for 30 seconds, then 30 seconds of recovery. Repeat this for 10 minutes. Without your FTP, you'll likely be oversprinting and cooking yourself within the first 4 minutes, or undersprinting and finishing the workout fresh. Time and energy aren't wasted when you have numbers and science to coach you. Now, if you're just interested in lift access park, pedaling around easy trails, or pushing your bike up climbs, a power meter isn't worth the investment. I'm currently training for a 106 mile XC style race in the Badlands, with 13,000 ft of climbing, so right now the power meter is my best friend.

[@Dubnside]

So, are PM's useful or not? I think this requires a 2nd video @gmbntech!

[@corentinoger]

Power is the rate at which chemical energy stored in your muscles (or fuel tank/battery) gets converted into another form, ideally motion, but also waste heat from frictions and torsions. On a wheeled vehicle, Power = rotating speed x torque (given the right units). For a bicycle, torque is basically how hard you push the pedals. Measuring it is better than estimating it, especially off-road, since soft surfaces like sand require a lot more power to achieve a given speed, same thing with low tire pressure. Software power 'estimates' like the one on Strava may be good enough for roadies, but they know nothing of your tires pressure, suspension settings, or how soft the sand was this day. It will just assume that you were taking it easy.

[@NOK2014_Corfu_Activities]

MTB riders carry a lot of heavy stuff on them (like back packs) , their bikes have larger tires and lower pressures and these cause more attrition. More over they climb steep climbs on accidental terrain which is much more harder that when climbing paved road. All these at the end come to a higher need of watts. Now if the rider is also heavy or more muscular and don't look like a skinny road pro rider, then the needs are higher. In other words: An MTB rider might be slow, if he is not all downhill maniac, but the watts he produce are generally speaking higher = more fatigue in less K's Put it simpler : 40k on an MTB FS is probably equal to 60k on road (considering same diff in altitude). Power = work / time.

[@dennisrasmussen7813]

Yes power=work/time and a mountainbiker May use more energy on a same lenght tour. But a powermeter only messures power output throug the cranks = propulsion. not the riders total energy consumption/ output

[@NOK2014_Corfu_Activities]

@@dennisrasmussen7813 Thanks for you reply. We don't disagree though cause what I said reflects on the cranks too. That is: more mower to the cranks to push a heavier person - bike - backpack, more power to push a bike forward where there is accidental terrain (off road gravel or grass or mud), more power on the cranks when tires have lower pressure ecc. We are not talking about the will of a rider to go slower or faster. We are talking about the same person willing to have the same speed in his rides and chooses to ride on road or off road. And I can also see it from a different perspective. Where would you need a more powerful electric motor, to move with the same speed a bicycle on a flat hard road or on a flat soft valley? Besides and over that we would talk about the WILL of an athlete to move faster or slower, on or off road. That is : in both cases 0 watt if the athlete doesn't move at all :-) If, on the other hand, wants to move constantly with 10km / hour then he would need more power on the crank for off road than on road. That is my conclusion by riding bikes.

[@mikicastan]

I look the same on road and my xc bike

[@NOK2014_Corfu_Activities]

@@mikicastan Of course your Max output is always the same [ but there always can be progress by developing your overall strength and endurance]. For better conclusions check the frequency of getting close to the max or the medium output for the same distances / altitude differences. Example: Set 2 points, 1 start, 1 end of a route that can be done both ways, via road and via off road with no much Km route difference but same altitude difference or same KM with not much overall altitude difference. Do it with a medium effort and a hard effort ride [task is to try to keep your speed at the same level]. Compare results of the medium of your power outputs. Come back here and let me know. Thanks.

[@MrDirrrty]

I’ve been using Zwift with my mountain bike, but I find my gear ratios are too low to work in the flats and downhills in Zwift.

[@sweetsuductress]

7:03 minutes until you actually answer the question.

[@davidking3699]

Measuring g-forces would be a better thing... how hard the berms are railed, how fast down hill, how hard the brakes are applied... visualise that in a 3D model based on altitude, vectors and speed variables and you would have a work of art....

[@piast99]

I think the new Garmins (530, 830 etc) do something like it. They measure the air time and evaluate your flow.

[@MikhailLambuson]

Most of the time when going downhill, pedalling is less used but more on upper body and pumping, how can the power meter measure the power exerted not from peddaling?

[@Nornagest84]

There are certain sites that give you a good estimate of your power for a logged ride - so why don't you name them? That would have been quite useful. 😉

[@aa72a]

Cool, thanks

[@Sjako7361]

More Opie..

[@MotorsportsX]

MTB is an issue with Garmin. apparently. just log power on the ascents and flats and give us some sort of an average instead of completely disabling it.

[@galph8035]

Heart rate monitors are more than enough for accurate xc mtb training. Terrain is too inconsistent to accurately gauge power output over extended periods of time.

[@yoda112358]

On the other hand, if you want to do structured intervals of some kind, like on a long fire road climb, then you can get pretty consistent power readings off-road.

[@cristiansmochina9056]

Bullshit, heart rate monitors are shit for xc. You can't gauge your power output? Bullshit again, it's called normalized power, it never lies.

[@galph8035]

Cristian Smochina on a stretch of single track, up, down, rocks, roots, whatever. Try and peg your power output CONSISTENTLY at zone 3 for 20 minutes. You won’t be able to do it. Too much up and down, turning etc. heart rate monitors are much easier to stay within a zone over varied terrain. I just found that for xc training heart rates were the way to go. I also do a lot of training on the road bike with power. To each their own though, this has worked for me and I was able to get my UCI Elite Men XC license 2 years ago.

[@cristiansmochina9056]

Joshua Brown so you’re one of those who only uses power for training. And if your power is all over the place, as it should be, in those conditions, normalized power still tells if you went too hard or too slow.

[@piast99]

So what happens with the crank based power meter after severe pedal strike? Does it ruin it?

[@petersimmonds3057]

I’ve run a power meter for over 5 years and had plenty of crank strikes of all severities. No damage done though you may see a big spike in the data. Definitely stick to a crank (Stages/4iii) or spider (Rotor/FSA) if you decide to get one.

[@mutleyadamsracing2684]

You can produce the same power at very different cadences. The faster cadence in addition to the same power equals a faster rider!!

[@martinkrutz5698]

No use to Aaron Gwin, he wins races with no chain, (no chain = no power output?)

[@211farissaputra7]

it's weird hearing mountainbiker talking about power/Kg, watt output, etc.

[@GaryMackman]

I think if you just ride for fun, you don’t need one.

[@badlarry172]

Interesting Thanks

[@Dan23_7]

Hmmmm 🤔 I'll just pedal thanks

[@JogBird]

Most mtb veidos on youtube are trail, enduro, or dh... Dont see the point for those disciplines... Xc would make sense if youre a pro

[@mrsmartypants_1]

JogBird: I’m just the opposite. Watching XC is like watching paint dry. No excitement. Very monotonous and boring. Downhill on the other hand is fast with jumps and carnage.

[@normadicn5700]

@@mrsmartypants_1 no sense in using power metres or in watching xc biking?

[@mrsmartypants_1]

Normadic N: Not for me. I don’t compete. I keep gadgets to a minimum in my life. All I need is a cell phone. Monitors, power meters etc... are certainly useful to high end amateur and pro level competitors. As is weightlifting and other conditioning. I love the unencumbered feeling of pedaling to the top of a trail - the aerobic conditioning part. Then the reward of sending it fast downhill with large jumps and knar. In beautiful environs with streams, rivers, waterfalls ... Here’s my idea of skills to strive for: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJmkq6WflNh_e5Y Here’s a race I’d spectate at - I hate wasting time watching events or pro sports when I could be out doing something myself: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYmkiommmcxplbs XC is like watching cross-country running. For me. Certainly the top athletes are phenomenal. Just not my cup of tea. To each his own. I used to be a high end competitor in 2 other sports. Now I’m too old and seek maximum enjoyment.

[@normadicn5700]

@@mrsmartypants_1 thanks for explaining

[@ApexHerbivore]

Road/gravel bikers have been borrowing from MTB tech and style for a while now, makes it "more fun". Let's not do the reverse and start caring about speed and power - it'll make Mtbing more boring! I'm yawning already. (exception - if you're competing)

[@coldforgedcowboy]

@GMBN Tech... Power meters only make sense to marathon mountain bikers because they are the only who care how many watts it takes to ride a kilometer. The shuttle my ass up the mountain crowd really doesn't care about how effciency because it really isn't a factor on the chair lift.

[@tychoMX]

Not really, at least there's a degree of "seriousness" for the athlete and whether it's important for them to more precisely identify the physiological needs of their discipline. BMX riders get them just so they can tailor their training to the extreme requirements of their discipline - extreme as in super short, super intense, and super fast cadence. Gravity based riders that enjoy number analysis even add an extra kink with accelerometers to determine how the bike is moving, whether power is applied at the right moments, how to optimize suspension to minimize losses, etc. That said, most people don't really care and just want to have fun. Nothing wrong with that. But in my case I like the numbers and understanding the physics of it almost as much as riding.

[@adventuresona700dollarhard5]

Nah brah, the Enduro pro's have been using them for awhile, and the DH crowd is catching on, too. The majority of the population doesn't live in a "shuttle my ass up the mountain" region of the world. Luckily, GMBN doesn't only cater to those that do. 😒

[@conteudoanimal]

no useful ... mtb or btt ... it not just power ... but techniques to transpass the difficults during XCO or XCM counts more

[@lecco666]

All this unnecessary tech detracts from the spontaneity and joy of just riding.

[@normadicn5700]

It's for professionals or semi-professionals

[@tychoMX]

Where do you draw the line for "unnecessary tech"? Suspension forks? Full suspension? Disc brakes? Dropper posts? Proper MTB wheels and rubber? Bear in mind the klunker riders were pretty spontaneous and joyful. And Tomac kicked ass with drop handlebars.

[@user-d32658]

All this necessary tech enables you to become a much better rider.

[@cristobalmunoz9222]

🗣️yyyeeeaa Henry and Cris Opie the cualificasions of thes rider's in cad session's in the climate relative and exstremadment cambiant and differents temperatures difern terrens for thes carrers o trails descendins so faster in the sending in ricoding day cronometrad the #mtb o #Downihllbike's and #sincros.

[@rachelpanth5527]

I generate -500 watts

[@noisiboi7308]

This is what happens when a roadie tries to grow a beard.

[@TCK71]

Nahhhh!!!!!

[@neilevans5397]

This is only viable for a top top athlete.

[@evan2079]

First

[@stevent1565]

As useful as spandex.

[@joshuabackhouse_]

steven t soooooo... very useful?

[@stevent1565]

@@joshuabackhouse_ it depends how big one's balls are.

[@hypertale3342]

first