Are SHORT BOWS really necessary? | The ATA Length Debate

AJA Newsletter: mailchi.mp/f40...
AJA Decals and Tuning Cards: averagejackarc...
Clothing Merchandise: teespring.com/...
Facebook: / averagejackarchery
Instagram: / averagejackarchery
Email: [e-mail]
OnX Hunt: webmap.onxmaps...
Huntworth Clothing: www.huntworthg...
Gear I Use!
Bows: Athens Vista 35, Elite Energy 35, Elite Victory, Elite Kure, Elite Rezult, 31" draw, 50-60 pounds
Optics: Maven C.1 10x42 amzn.to/2HwBEuZ Vortex Diamondback 10x42 amzn.to/2EjXIXm
Arrows: Easton Axis 300 amzn.to/2LXkH0U Easton Camo Hunter XX75 2315/2415 amzn.to/2wiWqb3 Gold Tip XT Hunter 300 amzn.to/2Enb2dA Victory VForce TKO amzn.to/302kUF1
Releases: TruBall Stinger amzn.to/2ElkLBp TruBall BT Gold 4 Finger amzn.to/2HwBRON Scott Ghost amzn.to/302LXjq Scott Jaws amzn.to/2EqmyIc Scott Ascent Hinge amzn.to/2X3Csyz
Rests: QAD HDX amzn.to/2LXTyej Trophy Ridge Whisker Biscuit amzn.to/2VC3J7L Trophy Ridge Tack Driver amzn.to/2VRoHVe NAP Nighthawk amzn.to/2LTWvMM Hamskea Hybrid or Trinity Hunter: amzn.to/37Y1JwK amzn.to/3c48roh Rip Cord Rest: amzn.to/3c8faxE
Broadheads: Magnus Stinger/Buzzcut amzn.to/2LW5Qnu Black Hornet/Ser-Razor amzn.to/2VC1j96
Vanes: Blazer, Fusion X Qii, Bohning X Vanes, Bohning Heat Vanes, Gateway Feathers
Sights: Trophy Ridge Peak V5 amzn.to/2EmfwkI GWS AR-19 Single Pin amzn.to/2JTsgDg CBE Engage 3 Pin Hybrid amzn.to/307hT6t EZV Bowhunting Sight ezvsight.com/
Quiver: Bohning Lynx 4 Arrow amzn.to/2HsAPDh
Stabilizer: Hi-Tek amzn.to/2HsUToQ CBE Torx Hunting Set amzn.to/2Dg6asY
Bow Press: Last Chance Archery EZ Green amzn.to/2HrgOwS
Targets: Morrell Targets High Roller 21 amzn.to/2VC202c YJ 450 amzn.to/2WjAivs Morrell Targets Supreme 3 amzn.to/330jSLG
Treestands: Gorilla Climbing Treestand XOP Vanish Treestand amzn.to/2LX1tIK API Outdoors Huntin' Sticks cabelas.xhuc.ne... with Lone Wolf Versa Button rope modification
Camera: Canon Rebel t6i amzn.to/2HuQsdy 18mm-55mm kit lens
Mic: Movo VXR10 amzn.to/2VWmvvO Wireless Movo MWX1 amzn.to/2D9b2Ag
Full Saddle Hunting Setup:
11mm Static Line: www.rei.com/pr...
8mm Accessory Cord: amzn.to/33zYRVW
Carabiners: Black Diamond, amzn.to/2KzzRqp Mad Rock, amzn.to/2YPGXjk
EZ Hunter Sit Drag: amzn.to/31FWdME
Ropeman MK Ascender: amzn.to/2Z6xr6H
Foam Pad: amzn.to/2Z1kcUR
Primal V Step: amzn.to/2H7KTAO
Black Diamond BOD Harness: amzn.to/2H2fGPJ
Tethrd Phantom and Predator Platform: tethrdnation.com/
Packs: Badlands Monster Fanny Pack: amzn.to/33YKefp 3V Outlaw II Sling Pack: bit.ly/2WsgftW 3V Gear Redline Hydration Pack: bit.ly/2WsgftW

[@veteranoutdoorsman9978]

34 to 36 ata has always been my favorite for hunting. My first hunting bow was 44". Never realy felt like it was too long even in a blind.

[@MrAPCProductions]

Same 36 ata is awesome.

[@user-uu2em9zo7v]

I love the orange strings on the black bow

[@o.n.e.wayhunting]

I think the 32"-34" ATA range is the workhorse and jack of all trades range and is perfect for any hunting scenario. Very versatile and user friendly while providing excellent options and a range of performance.

[@c.r.rg9529]

I've got a 2017 hoyt defiant 30.5 Ata 7" brace height. Just got a pse fortis 33 Ata 6 5/8 brace height. Love them both

[@robertdavis1102]

I agree with you 💯!! Everything you said is the truth. I hope a lot of people see this because you said it all. Thank you 👌👊

[@flee4170]

When I replaced my 14 yr old bow I settled on a bowtech realm X because it was longer axle to axle. I got so used to my old bow I didn’t want a short bow. I’m so happy I did. And I’m only 5’4”. I love it

[@Alan_Edwards]

Everything you said makes perfect sense. I shoot a Mathews Conquest 2 still which is 41" A2A and it's a very stable bow. It's heavy and balanced and made for target which is all I shoot. The down side is it's fricking heavy when it's all tricked out (~8lbs) and I am no spring chicken. I have been looking at their new bows for that reason, but I will still be looking at the longest model I can get !!

[@sagrieff]

I agree Nate. I usually shoot a bow that is between 33 and 38 inch ATA. I have a Bowtech SS34 and a Reckoning 36 G2 that I shot all last year. They were both a breeze to set up and tune. I have young grandsons that I have got bows for and being that they are young and with that small in size, when you are 6 shooting a bow that is under 29" ATA is a pretty long ATA. Anyway They started to question why my bow was so much longer than theirs and that because their bow was short it must not be a real bow. Explaining to them that if there bow was as long as mine it would hit the ground was not enough for them. So this year I got the Darton budget bow, the 29 1/2" ATA. Wow this is a short guy, well for me it felt so small anyway. It took me a considerable bit more work to get this bow shooting well for me. Granted I am a bigger guy with a 31" draw, but I saw all the Videos of guys and shops raving about how well this bow shot, and it does, but it took some work to get it there. I expected it would be a bit more work than a flagship bow to tune so that was not a shock to me. But it was very noticeable the difference in stability from shooting the 34 and 36 ATA bowtechs to the 29 and 1/2 Darton. But once I got the stabilizers weights figured out and micro-tuned the draw and played with the timing and got used to the shallow string angle, I did get it to shoot very well. I had figured that this was mostly because I had not ever shot a bow this short, which I still think it has a lot to do with it. But even after shooting it for all these months with the Grandsons, When I pick up any of my other bows with the longer ATA it feels like home and seems like it takes so much less effort from me to make a good shot. Don't get me wrong I think the Darton especially for the price is a great bow, but having the extra bit of bow length makes all the difference.

[@madwe2269]

33 is the minimum that I want for a hunting bow. My ideal setup is 2 bows, one at 33 or 34 ATA and another at 36-38. The 33/34 for blinds and tighter spaces, setup with short stabilizers. Currently that bow is a prime Nexus 4 because the center grip lets me lighten up on stabs and still hold great. The 36+ bow setup for longer open shots like antelope and open country hunts. My next bow in this category is going to be a shoot down pro S2 cam

[@andrecancilla4901]

Took a deep dive into target archery last fall with a reckoning 35 at 60 lbs. Loved the bow so much I decided to get a 70 lb version for hunting.

[@Rusty-Brown_]

********* YOU R THE FIRST MAN IV HEARD SAY GET A LONGER BOW ********* IV BEEN SAYING THIS FOR 40 YEARS !!!! !!!!!!! ******

[@Johnsplots]

Yeah, I often regret getting a short bow, and you listed all the reasons why. I hate my bow even more now, thanks.

[@averagejackarchery]

Hahahahah! I know a guy who can help you get a new one....

[@Johnsplots]

@averagejackarchery lol. I think I know that guy, too.

[@kevinclark8782]

Been running a Hoyt double xl since 2018, 35 1/2 ATA, works just fine for everything.

[@75superfan]

I got a Hoyt Rx5 Ultra which is 34" ata. I had a Hoyt Torrex before which is 30" ata. I don't see any downside to the longer bow. The top is only 2" higher which normally is the only part that you could run out of room. Very seldom does the extra 2" on the bottom matter. I can shoot from a pop up blind or tree stand no problem. The longer bow is much more enjoyable to shoot and like you stated I end up shooting more.

[@Silbar89]

My man spittin facts! All of this is basically why I went with a core SR over a SS

[@jackcoadelite]

Absolutely!!!!! Not to mention string pinch and peep alignment

[@gemeni69]

Facts! Exactly why I went to 33” ATA best all around bow for everything IMO.

[@BeardedSportsman]

I use to shoot 29-30 inch bows and shot them well. Now I like to stay between 32-34 ata and I shoot them so much better and they’re more comfortable. Running a Phase 4 33 now that I love but one of my best shooting bows was my Elite Remedy at 34” ata

[@FreshCoastKnife]

I went from a PSE Evoke31. I shot good with it. Then, this year, I got a Bowtech SS34, and the stability honestly feels like a cheat code!

[@maynardcarmer3148]

If I had more years of bowhunting left to me, I would get a 33" bow. But at my age, the return isn't worth the cost.

[@timbow50]

The Evolve 35 was my favorite bow ever for target work. Been using a 33” bow for 4 years for all my shooting. Both just “ fit me”?, whatever that means. I have had more control with these two than any others. Just wished I hadn’t sold the 35”.

[@jonathan_guerrero]

I have a short DL at 27 inches but I can still get away with a longer ATA. I bought a Mach 30 because I got a good deal on it. I just got it this week and I feel like I should sell it for a Mach 34 lol. I'm gonna test the waters and put it up for sell so I can order a 34.

[@Buran01]

Love my Remedy, I have also a 40" Supra Focus; my next rig will probably between 36" and 38"...

[@jacobbrown9978]

I thought the idea of stabilizers was where you put the weight. Not just adding weight for the sake of weight. Not saying you are completely wrong in what you are saying but I don’t think riser weight automatically equates to stability.

[@brutallyhonestmf5578]

I’m 5’10” my old hunting bow was a 29.5” ata Hoyt, last season I switched to a 33” Mathew’s. I immediately noticed an improvement on accuracy and better groups. Took a doe heart out @45yds from my stand no problem. Bottom line it’s all about preference.

[@user-uu2em9zo7v]

Quick question for everyone What’s your bow poundage And what’s your arrow weight I’m at 55lb and 450gn

[@TheNewBowunter]

I'm not a target archer by any stretch but love shooting the club 3d course. I am practicing for hunting season with my PSE Mach 30. Just curious if you have tried this bow? Seems like everyone is shocked how stable and accurate it is. But I agree why buy a light carbon bow and cram if full of weight...I run a small 12" stabilizer. My shooting partner uses the Lift 29.5 and no stabilizer....AND man he can dot eyes at 70 yards. I'm a big fan of your channel!

[@kip.k]

This video makes my decision to go with a 33" ATA seem like a better choice. I always feel like people make way too big a deal about that extra 2 or 3 inches of length.

[@RKeaton]

Man, I picked up a 40 ATA target bow this year and it is worlds away from my 33 hunting bow. The string angle is perfect. Stability is amazing. Has totally spoiled me and my hunting bow experience. My DL is 30.25” and that wider angle fits me so much better

[@averagejackarchery]

Now you understand why guys put so much love into target bows!

[@T-Mak-s7x]

I like my 64” Black Widow more than my 60”. But I’ve gotta shoot VXR 28” because of my short draw length. My VXR 28 is incredible. But I’d be shooting Lift 33 if offered in my draw length.

[@jeff_8789]

I tried the phase 4 33 last yr used it the first week of pa season no doubt I could shoot it better but after a few sits I put it down and used my v3 27 rest the season I absolutely hated the 33 from my saddle I don't shoot target so I sold the phase 4 33 and got the lift 29.5 absolutely love it an have been practicing from saddle lately it's perfect Ata for me I can shoot it well and it's comfortable moving ard the tree so I'll be sticking with it for awhile

[@theMobileHuntersEXPO]

Great video. We have a convo on this coming up now 😂

[@averagejackarchery]

Can't wait!

[@tellyourfriendsaboutme4219]

not quite as big as you but i'm 6'2" with a larger wingspan shooting my prime inline 1 max dl at 30.5" and I feel like the angle that my peep sight is in and the height it is in on the bow string I run out of room compared to the sight adjustment. Definitely considering a 33 inch ata next build. also big thanks for your old school arrow saw and draw board videos - built both and used it to setup the above bow, owe alot of my diy sucess to you. thanks again!

[@averagejackarchery]

Glad the content has helped! Yes, peep height is a huge consideration with short ATA bows. It can be very difficult to work with.

[@timbow50]

Some great info here in the specs you’re talking about. 👍👍

[@l.i.archer5379]

I'm 5'6" with a 26.5" draw length. Bows with big cams with a 31" - 33" axle-to-axle length is perfect for me.

[@thenameiwantedwastaken]

As someone with a 32” draw, I wouldn’t shoot anything shorter than a 34” ATA (even if I could) They get too “twitchy” for me if they’re shorter than that Even 34 is shorter than I’d like

[@madman432000]

Your results with the 410g arrow kind of confirms my results with a Kairos at 70# and 29,25 draw with a 408g arrow. Trying to decide on a sight tape and compared to the 475g arrow with the 283fps tape I ended up with the 312fps tape for the 408g arrow. I was unsure if it could be that fast but maybe it really is. I did back off the limbs a half turn. The 283 sight tape set at 56yds was dead on at 70yds with the 408g arrow. We shot the 475g arrow through the chrono at the shop and it was 279.

[@averagejackarchery]

Yes, these new Elites in the Kairos, Ethos, and Era are all absolute screamers without a horrible draw cycle.

[@jonbrown9490]

Short answer...No, they are not necessary. There are lots of people that hunt with 60-72" trad bows in all conditions(including tree stands) and take game without issue. If they can do it then a compound 1/2 the size shouldn't be an issue either.

[@308blr2]

Nate, do these considerations for axle to axle length and brace height change when the hunter is 5’5” and has a 26 1/2” draw length?

[@larrytellman3490]

Good analysis and compelling reccomendation.

[@jedhuf7548]

I just finally got out and shot my ethos out of the basement range and my second shot at 40 yards I busted the nocturnal in my first arrow. Really close to my first Robin Hood. I haven’t shot at all this year after I got my ethos dew to an injury.

[@mikenutto396]

So I have a v3x 33 and a v3x29.5 I use both for different things. Saddle hunting and tree stand hunting the short bow is maneuverable. I hunt thick stuff. It's taken me some time to get the bow stabile. I'm using a beesting side mount and moved it to the back bar mounting area. I've had other short axel to axel bows and even longer. Kind of funny thinking a 33 is a longer axel to axel. Like I said though the 29.5 has taken time to balance and get it were I like it. Now the 33 is a different bow. I only run a 12 up front and an 8 in the back. Now I've shot that bow with no stabilizer at 100 yards and 🎯 but I can't do that without the stabilizer, consistently. It's a much steady platform, then all the bows I've owned. The 33 is also my back up bow if something happens because in reality 33 is not that big. I will say one thing the cams on these new bows a large and can get hooked on things , so be aware of that up in the tree.

[@deanbrantley]

I have mixed feelings. I have a Mathews V3 27 and a Prime Inline 5. I feel equally as accurate out to 70-80 yards. What I feel is maybe alittle forgiveness bonus with the Inline5.

[@flynviking2093]

I had a tough time deciding between the Mathews Lift 33 or the Lift 29.5. You just made me feel better about my decision. 😂

[@JohnNeedham-zk5ms]

Very aggressive bow I have one but it will bite u in the butt if u torque it u have to be very in control of your let down or derail everything can go wrong in a second I get them in everyday dry fires or it just blew up it’s good but not a good starter bow how he yanked that bow back u can’t do it with the lift

[@jasonard7227]

sry been hunting for almost 40 years and have used em all very long to very short and my favorite one is the mathews vxr 28 for hunting and shoot it out past a 100 yards no problems. I do use the V3 31 for my 3d rig now. I do like the V3X 29 a lot as well. I like the shorter ATA bows. but to each there own I shoot em all about the same its not the bow its the Indian .. oh im a 29 inch draw have the 75 pound mods on all my mathews bows with the strings made a touch short to get 80 pounds out of them so I dont have to add as many twists to the cables.. they all tune easy with 250 spine arrows and Iron will heads...I hunt from a saddle now

[@bill8885]

Last year I jumped up from a 29" Bear to a 33" Bowtech and haven't looked back.

[@marcoengelbracht4141]

Funny, nowadays people argue about short axle to axle and the necessity to have it to feel comfortable out in the wild. Not too long ago (from my perspective) the majority with a recurve was way above that, even when I add the cam's diameter. I would not feel confident with my Bear takedown 64" at TAC and a 100 yards+ Target. But at hunting distances within 20 yards this is for me still the better choice (not necessarily the Bear, but any lightweight recurve with a certain poundage). Do not get me wrong, being from Germany, I am not a Bowhunter, only shooting 3D, but what I mean is, if you are confident in your Bow, size does not matter that much in the woods. It is still the Archer which matters. People with Longbows where able to make a living with hunting, and nowadays ATA must be under 30"? You are kidding guys 😉

[@shawnberndt4032]

I agree fully

[@328am]

I went from a 38” ata Hoyt Magnatec (out of a saddle) to an ss34. I love my bow but I think 33” is where it’s at, IMHO

[@casualobserver77]

I love my PSE evolve 31 but my bowtech revolt x is sooo damn good.

[@TORREX-A.D.]

I shoot as good with a 40" as a 30. I'm not that great😅. However less weight is less fatigue and I shoot better all around.

[@Kammeg71]

I’m a bit taller than you and own 6 bows between 33” and 37” ata. I could not agree more with your video. I’ve always wondered how much worse can a 35” ata be than a 30” in a tree stand/blind. You are talking about 2.5” more on each end you are worried about. I’ve always thought that was kinda a silly excuse.

[@jeddickens-yz7wb]

Bows are like girls. What you like and feels good to you might not be what I would like or feel good to me. I prefer a short ATA Bow. So I shoot the V3 27, quite well out to 70 yards. But hey, what do I know, I've only been an archer for 30 years.

[@stevehall4130]

Longer bows are more consistent for repeatable anchor points as the shooting distance increases…no question!

[@user-nx8vp5sy5d]

33, dont use stability add ons, one off my bows tried a back stabiliser, it helped make bow feel better, didnt do anything for accuracy. 31.5 needed front and back stabliliser to get consistent shots. hard bow to tune looking as a core ss cause im getting old, would preffer the sr. find out bow shop, love mathews dont want stupid shimming crap that never was a thing 15yrs ago apart from hoyt

[@robertmiller6822]

34 is my sweet spot anything from 33 to 38ata is good for me.

[@johnsand8495]

Get Bear to make a 36"-40" alaskan

[@billtucker7728]

I still have a golden eagle ultra evolution "43" that still shoots amazing.Not as fast or quiet as my newer rigs but the accuracy of this old bow is next to 0

[@garymatyok]

Would this concept apply to shorter draw lengths, let’s say 26.5? I’ve been curious about longer ata bows but a lot of people have told me that longer ata bows wouldn’t fit me as well compared to the shorter ones. Great videos!

[@averagejackarchery]

There was, for many years, and adage that a short bow was best for short draw lengths and a long for long. However, modern technology has really increased the ends of what a short and long bow actually mean. I have so many guys and gals in the 26-27" range in my store that shoot a 32-34" bow and absolutely love it. Excellent accuracy and tons of stability.

[@garymatyok]

@@averagejackarchery awesome, thanks for the response! I’ll have to keep this in mind for my next bow

[@wyndy1879]

Gearhead Archery has entered the chat

[@the_sharp_carpenter]

Been thinking about this exact bow as a multipurpose bow. Or getting getting a used target bow. I like both options for different reasons...thoughts?

[@averagejackarchery]

If you're going to be doing a bunch of target shooting like 3D and indoor, then get a specific bow. It's a pain to switch a bow over back and forth.

[@the_sharp_carpenter]

@@averagejackarchery well now that you say it's a pain I pretty much have to go with the swap option, the struggle bus is my main form of transportation.

[@CB-kn8qc]

Woke up & chose violence 😂 That shorter ata is all marketing imo.

[@rogerhook8002]

Ahead of you...Been shooting the Kairos for 3D all season. Thoughtful presentations and I thank you.

[@averagejackarchery]

Thank you for watching!

[@anotheryoutuber_]

felt like an advertisement for a crossbow, just kidding, thanks for the video.

[@averagejackarchery]

Hahah! Thanks for watching!

[@MikeyWoomer]

Need a shirt that says, crap of hooey!!

[@wcwcgarner2717]

I have a mathews V3X 29 and I shoot out to 100 yards every day. 3 inch groups. Shoot whatever bow works for you. I had the elite omnia but sold it because of the cables rubbing the cam. And the cam screws keep coming loose. That is only your opinion. And I take that wt a grain of salt

[@user-yo2ql8gv4j]

I know for a fact that my bow is not to short if anything it's a bit too long but works great my bow is 50 inchs axle to axle lol😅🎉

[@user-yo2ql8gv4j]

Well that's not exactly right it's 50 inchs tip to tip and 10 inchs axle to axle I shoot and oneida Tom cat

[@garedjennings6509]

Oddly enough I had a ss34 and I couldn't hold that bow as steady as I did the revolt from bowtech which is a 30 inch axel to axel. Now I'm shooting the core ss at 31.5 axel to axel and it holds like the revolt does. Just gotta find what works best for yourself

[@mussersbowsboatsandscience6610]

Still like to see a direct comparison to 30 inch bow to validate the argument. I do think seat height and proper archery blind matters more the bow height, window height that lower or longer is better. There blinds better for archery and some not as good no matter the bow height

[@kellyskinner7282]

It's about riser length. Remember, Levi can shoot anything. He's the GOAT.

[@MikeyWoomer]

If you can shoot it doesn't matter. Not everyone is as naturally gifted as you pros are 😂