Are Tankies Comrades? Debating Caleb Maupin

oh my god
Website - www.vaush.gg/
Twitter - / vaushv
Patreon - / vaush
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Intro animation credit goes to / itismekyleg & / honeybunnbadger for the visuals, and / sound_sierra for the audio! Thank you!

[@markrodriguez5881]

Maupin should have paid Vaush for getting off his humiliation fetish

[@petrfedor1851]

Online exchange is not paid, you learned nothing!

[@Sneaker3719]

Respect for the Filthy Frank profile pic

[@EissaDelRey]

This comment aged like fine wine

[@AmarantIsLiveTTV]

“I dont think you care the workers - I think you care about building some personality cult” holy shit, this aged like the finest wine.

[@קוראי]

do spill the tea

[@user-nk2yn2hh6h]

@@קוראי caleb maupin was trying to make his org into a sex cult basically, lots of abuser tactics- got multiple people in his org to b so destitute that they had to go into sexwork- then proceeded to hire them to satiate his biblical spanking fetish. can't make this up

[@smallfry0241]

​@user-lz1wp8sw3v vaush made a 2 hour recap of what maupin did. he sexually abused and harassed multiple people, verbally abused and manipulated people into poverty and sex work that they did not want to pursue.

[@HittaTheFlameCharmer]

​@user-lz1wp8sw3v I mean vaush had a video + googles exists but tl;Dr some of his former workers at his institute said that: "yeah this guy was pretty much trying to make a cult"

[@a-pv7sv]

What happened?

[@HANA_____]

Vaush really got indoctrinated into Caleb's sex cult in this debate

[@DimentioCorp]

He DID give Caleb a Spanking. Curious.

[@TFPrsn]

Caleb Maupin's followers were eating food from dumpsters while this debate was taking place.

[@Pragabond]

Jesus yeah that really makes it real to have this moment to put that insanity to

[@tgreetsy1201]

All 3 of them

[@samham4461]

Wait what happened I'm new to this

[@tgreetsy1201]

@@samham4461 CPI was full of broke impressionable youths that Caleb manipulated and sexually exploited for his own gain to the point they were struggling to eat. Real deplorable fuckery by monsieur Moppin 🧹

[@TFPrsn]

@@samham4461 see the recent vaush video on the caleb maupin Expose

[@egodeath7625]

Spankie Tankie gets HUMILIATED and SPANKED by Bisexual Bear

[@krimson4257]

I love how everyone collectively went back to this stream to watch caleb get a free dominatrix session

[@MilesDashing]

Alas, he only got a verbal spanking. Considering how a predilection towards authoritarian politics is commonly the outcome of authoritarian parenting, I suspect Maupin's fetish is pretty common among the right.

[@JohnSmith-dt1tw]

"You would have had Albert Einstein punched in the face" might be the best out of context quote I have ever heard

[@epicgamer-ur1wg]

Evan Richards don’t care plus you’re white

[@JD-jl4yy]

@@evan2173 Howdy there partner. I'm just a simple farmer tryin to get by. It's been tough lately with all these birds stealin ma crops. That's a nice strawman you got there, how much do you want for it?

[@jmanakajosh9354]

@@JD-jl4yy You're funny. It's a pitty you've sided with the Biden bros

[@billbutton8468]

@@evan2173 hey bud, who cares. Punch Albert Einstein. Honestly go for it. I dont give a shit about Einstein or whether or not he gets punched in some metaphorical universe where he's still alive or something.

[@billbutton8468]

@@evan2173 LMAO why are you exactly like Caleb. Are you Caleb? We don't reas book and wrre not gonna read your weird rants. Go make yourself useful and punch Einstein, lib.

[@Bashamo257]

Vaush really spanked Maupin in this debate. He made him look like such a silly duck.

[@tyrannotitanentertainment7579]

What a gimp

[@ericmacrae6871]

As someone who thinks that Vaush is just a liberals and I know that I would be called a tanki because I refuse to engage in western imperalism apologia. Caleb really demonstrates now clueless he is

[@andrewgreenwood9068]

​@@ericmacrae6871at the time this debate was taking place Maupin was sexually abusing multiple members of his org.

[@CrispMasterCrunch]

"I don't think you give a fuck about the workers of this country... I think you give a fuck about some personality cult you're trying to build" Talk about hitting the nail on the fucking head.

[@TheSurrealist.]

Seeing as how Maupin has been outed as a cult leader sex pest…

[@danielfrisk925]

Abusing his own socialist "comrades". He would be a "Supreme Leader" worse than Stalin if he weasled himself into power. Luckily he doesn't own any means of production in his head, where there doesn't seem to be any, to ever succeed.

[@xuxuang8574]

Imagine trying to build a cult of personality, but you have Caleb Maupin's personality.

[@neonfroot]

As if though Vaush isn't doing the same thing. Alot of these political pundits are autofellatio masters

[@TheGreatGario]

Einstein got punched by Antifa in this debate.

[@whateva1983]

einstein wrote in favor of Lenin.

[@sparksthedaytrader9606]

@@whateva1983 What a dumb tankie, trying to solve problems. Not in this anarchist utopia.

[@StormMcBeth]

@@whateva1983 wasn't Lenin against Stalin?

[@s2sHoXXs2]

@@StormMcBeth stalin destroyed what lenin helped create

[@georgia8670]

@@StormMcBeth no I've read both their biographies and Lenin called Stalin "a magnificent Georgian" and was one of the only people he trusted completely. Lenin's "testament" against Stalin wasn't even written by Lenin and is disputed to have even been his yboughts. but y'know Stalin bad my version of socialism that has never happened is good

[@Tom-mt2yy]

Caleb when not talking = L.A Noire suspect.

[@EpicCraZeShotZ]

I’m offended at how good this comment is.

[@CPSPD]

Kinda Funny Rhetorician it’s weird how many people there are just lurking in the vaush multiple month old highlight archives lol. Hello

[@tainoman1998]

I literally turned it on yesterday after like 6 months of not playing it. First thing I notice is how weird the facial expressions are 🤣

[@peorcyhen5062]

@@CPSPD new viewers like watching his old stuff for fun. Lots to watch

[@ashfox7498]

"What is your definition of communism" "Communism is never questioning the definite fakeness of the Chinese Wyger genocide" *Aggressively avoids eye contact with open mouth*

[@Trazyn_The_Finite]

“Felt like being scolded by a schoolteacher” Oof, this really wound up making more sense with time

[@JaqAlexander]

It aged like fine wine

[@goose9515]

2:41 look at the face borgar king makes here

[@wilhelmkreis6578]

Nelson Mandela got beaten up by antifa in this debate

[@vivvygipe9605]

Your profile pic is Maupin after he denied the Uighur genocide lol

[@weezersthebluealbum9479]

Is this how right wing Nelson Mandela was created?

[@wvu05]

@@weezersthebluealbum9479 I think it was when Rick Santorum pretended One of Us after his death, forgetting that the then-cult hero vetoed sanctions against South Africa.

[@darcybhaiwala7057]

@@weezersthebluealbum9479 nice Brooks reference

[@amdusias2978]

Who knew that “Socialism is when the government does stuff and the more it does, the Socialister it is” meme was an actual person.

[@Fin0fLenster]

I dunno it seems pretty common from people who don't like the idea of socialism very much. This is the first time I've seen it from someone who calls himself a socialist though.

[@Cream12345Ice]

@@Fin0fLenster I think that's what the guy was reffering to

[@Fin0fLenster]

@@Cream12345Ice Oh yeah I think you might be right. Whoops!

[@bobsykes7140]

Do you support Medicare For All? Would you like the people's elected government to do such "stuff" or would you rather wait until after the workers revolution that might NEVER happen?

[@albooga]

Seems like he just really understand the definition. I would give him the benefit of the doubt

[@LedZeppeli]

"You would have had Nelson Mandela beaten up by Antifa. You would have had Albert Einstein punched in the face" This is my favorite quote from any debate I've ever listened to

[@thatcoolcat12]

This just sounds like the teaser for a great fighting game

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

@@thatcoolcat12 Street Fighter, but for intellectual and civil rights luminaries.

[@stoneman472]

@@thatcoolcat12 what would Einstein's finishing move be?

[@sir_granite3616]

@@stoneman472 accidentally discovering how to make nukes.

[@zvendiearschficker493]

And then he proceeded to write a book about Vaush...

[@willofthepeople741]

Is it me or does Caleb come off like a used carsalesman trying to convince you to buy a lemon?

[@Stevies_Precog_Gym_n_Spa420]

A LOT OF GREAT PEOPLE HAVE FUCKED IN THIS CAR, WALT WHITMAN CAME RIGHT THERE, HUEY LEWIS USED TO SLEEP IN THE BOOT, WHATS WRONG WITH THIS CAR, CIA MAN?

[@prajwaljayaraj5887]

@@Stevies_Precog_Gym_n_Spa420 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@terrybarnes5266]

@Will of the people it’s just you

[@NicholasKramas]

Yes. Completely. From facial expressions, to voice, to rhetoric.

[@ScarceCastle2]

"Hey where'd you get this car?" "It fell off the back of a Borgar Kang truck"

[@floridamancode_e2673]

Albert Einstein was punched in the face by antifa in this debate

[@confrontingcapital5080]

I tried my best don’t bully me too hard

[@straka9992]

you did great, like vaush said one caleb maupin starts speaking, there's no stopping him, thanks for hosting!!

[@GooglyGook12]

I've seen at least one Tankie in the subreddit get mad at you when you barely even said anything :pepehug:

[@Emincem13]

Mouthy Infidel I understand that you may have struggled in the moment while moderating. See if you can focus on stopping the debate when vaush was resorting to ad hominim attacks and gaslighting the debate by spreading arguments everywhere not allowing anything to be discussed in depth. I am assuming you may have been nervous to intervene but the way Vaush conducted himself you needed to have stopped the debate more often.

[@px7107]

You did great

@@Emincem13 caleb just said random garbage about Helen Keller and einstein the whole time and said vaush wanted war with China he had no point at all the entire time. Vaush literally described a tankie as one who defends stalin etc. and questions the historical accuracy of the numbers killed during those regimes to which caleb said nobody Is interested in doing such things, directly followed by him doing exactly that for almost an hour. Vaush literally called out what caleb was going to do before it began and caleb walked right into his trap. Pretty sad. He makes socialism look way worse than vaush ever could.

[@christinemorey6939]

"you would have had Nelson Mandela beaten up by antifa" WHAT

[@unslaadkrosis3489]

I’m glad Vaush was my first exposure to socialism instead of Caleb because otherwise I don’t think I would ever have become a socialist 😂 what a fucking lunatic

[@unslaadkrosis3489]

Elynn Z why because I’m not an authoritarian psychopathic monster like you?

[@tonyslater7204]

Mandela directly praised the USSR as a shining example for building a society. What are you struggling with?

[@xerxies8947]

@@tonyslater7204 Probably the fact that Vaush at no point claimed that people who are tankies or support tankies or like the USSR should be punched in the face. Disagreeing with people is not the same as having people beat up by antifascists.

[@0witw047]

Tony Slater so? Doesn’t mean he was right. Even Mandela is wrong sometimes. Don’t worship figures of authority.

[@iron-mage]

the 'felt like i was being scolded by a school teacher' bit about 2:30 & maupins reaction have a whole new meaning now christ, vaush be out here doing uncompensated sex work

[@xuxuang8574]

As per usual

[@lifeofbob2896]

When I used to be a libertarian, I resisted moving left for a long time because this guy is what I thought communists were.

[@shrub8644]

anarchists are the true far-left. Tankies are just woke fascists

[@Axxilles]

​@@shrub8644 This can't be put any better.

[@at5203]

Right? I feel like I disliked communism because I discussed about it with people like this guy. And then he turns around and tries to say that Vaush makes leftists look bad because he looks weak by not defending dictatorships, lmao. Really shows where his priorities are.

[@Avabees]

you and thousands of other people, friend... F in chat for all the comrades we could have gained but didnt

[@Siberius-]

@@shrub8644 - Anarcho-Capitalism. 😮 Nah I'm joking. That's hardly Anarchism.

[@Vaush]

The battle in this comment section will decide the next CEO of Socialism, good luck comrades

[@nemesiszer0708]

Except for Tankies.

[@bombocrusty4251]

The true battleground of leftism has been decided, now I must use my mind abilities to expand to astronomical heights

[@CoffeeKatastrophe]

How in the FUCK does fascism and socialism meet in some people? What are their values based upon?

[@confusion.]

@@nemesiszer0708 The only discrimination i support

[@waspoppin4784]

Vaush I CALL DIBS ON BEING CEO there I win gg

[@DaRkJoKeR77]

Notice how every time the lack of worker rights in China was brought up Caleb completely pivoted away from that topic.

[@caydenmichael98]

Tells you all you need to know about tankies. Simp all day for the authoritarian state but doesn't actually give a shit about liberating the workers or the minorities.

[@BlakeGeometrio]

@@caydenmichael98 Tankies are diet fascists.

[@personperson4328]

It sucks that so many regular mls are called tankies because of people like maupin

[@gangstalicious2007]

State propaganda check: Conflating critiques of chinese communist party with anti chinese hysteria, check Questioing reports of the systematic removal of Uighurs have been debunked, check. Chinese social credit system is just a benign form of recovering fines, check.

[@cwg9238]

in his own words hes "not interested" in discussing the oopsies, or in fact anything specific.

[@duderdude4831]

I guess America could become communist real easily if we just slapped a hammer sickle on our flag and called social security a labor union.

[@tomaszgruszka3845]

And ban any other labor unions, the ones controlled by the KGB

[@tonyslater7204]

Do you think it could become communist easily if all of its advocates renounce and demonize all of the historical examples who have attempted it?

[@mayayamato7351]

@@tonyslater7204 No of course not. But who's denouncing ALL historical examples of people attempting socialism?

[@Shane_Leahy]

@@tonyslater7204 Literally just the shit ones

[@comradejeramy7017]

If we had a revolution first, establishing a ruling communist party and people's state like China did then we would be well on our way. This is a weak strawman DuderDude.

[@Teutathis]

Why on earth would you get beaten up for owning a Quran in Indonesia? It's a Muslim majority country.

[@giovannimidiri3569]

He got confused with India lol

[@JC-jd1us]

@Joseph Goby thanks for the fact check!

[@suraksha9229]

Ya I think he meant China

[@tjdm5361]

@@suraksha9229 no. didn't happen in China. see above.

[@Teutathis]

@Joseph Goby Thank you for the clarification. A thief being beat up in Indonesia makes a whole lot more sense.

[@billbutton8468]

"I'm criticizing YOU" "YOU'RE PAINTING WITH A BROAD BRUSH. YOU WANNA PUNCH EINSTEIN" Nice debate, mate.

[@ellusivegman]

I'm doubting whether or not Caleb is actually human. That thing is completely incapable of basic communication.

[@inovakovsky]

@@ellusivegman Vaush said that he dislikes tankies and many notable political activists were. Vaush, though raised some good points on the current conditions of country that most tankie dislike, he resorted ad homs and holocaust baiting rather than justifying his stances. Caleb hardly justify anything, so they both sucked.

[@dereinzigwahreRahl]

@@inovakovsky If you want a justification for his stances, just engange with the content on this channel were he does specifically do that. In this "debate" there was absolutely no time for it and its very dishonest to act as if there was a place here for having that conversation.

[@albooga]

@@inovakovsky I agree. Neither did a great job of landing their points clearly. Maybe the mod could have done more

[@inovakovsky]

@@albooga John Oliver produced a recent video on Uyghur case. I bet it would similar to the Venezuela video (that Empire Files).

[@jamestully156]

Anyone else listening to this now after what we've learned recently? Behold the spanky tankie.

[@ttthecat]

Me!!! And whoa does that new information cast this conversation in a whole new light! Even without knowing the abuse, exploitation and sexism this is an extraordinary debate that Vaush crushed.

[@ttthecat]

Spankie tankie😅

[@unknownroyalty895]

Wait? Is Maupin a spanking fetishist?

[@itsbobo]

@@unknownroyalty895 yeah there was a big scandal about him going to dominatrixes and stuff like that

[@unknownroyalty895]

@@itsbobo Why are the fetishes of random tankied a big deal? Is it because of some hypocritical attitude.

[@conure]

dude looks like an oblivion NPC with those facial expressions

[@dragonslaya16]

The dude is an NPC

[@casperchristiansen2458]

Greetings traveler.

[@trashrabbit69]

STOP! You have forgotten to read theory.

[@mrgaudy1954]

I saw a Tankie the other day. Horrible creatures.

[@jonfirewater]

his head isn't oval enough and he has facial hair, this dude's a fallout NV NPC that read a half burnt copy of Das Kapital and runs a slave pit he calls a worker's union

[@andrewcleary9952]

"You just keep appealing to authority, I don't consider that an argument" "Uhh, well, you know who else appealed to authority? EINSTEIN"

[@excuseyou1526]

YoU WaNt To PuNCh E I N S T E I N! -Actual Muppet

[@inovakovsky]

@@excuseyou1526 First of Caleb was citing activists who are semi-relevant to political thought?

[@andrewcleary9952]

@@inovakovsky Citing activists is not debating political theory. It DOES NOT MATTER which good or bad people claimed to approve or disapprove of your political theory. Your theory should stand on its own merit, from history and logic. You shouldn't have to resort to "My argument is valid because Einstein said it's valid and he's a very smart boy".

[@deensama7718]

@@andrewcleary9952 i agree that we shouldnt only appeal to authority, but we shouldn't pretend that arguing history doesn't end up eventually coming to that at some point anyways. the issue with this line of think is that it's pretty idealist - these political theories aren't just free floating up in the realm of ideas ready to do battle with other ideas, they pop up from history of ideological based struggle, which in turn comes from people and their material conditions the idea that a theory even can stand on its own merit is useless if we aren't considering the material conditions and actual, real struggles that occurred leading to the development of these theories and how they lend them merit. the point about appeals to authority is fine, and i think it's important that we don't rely on it TOO much because it can cause you to essentially hinge your theory on dead folks, but i don't think it's overusing an appeal to authority to point out that people involved in extremely relevant historical struggle share a common viewpoint with you, ESPECIALLY if your opponent is arguing that it's immoral and incorrect to simplify: appealing to historically and theoretically relevant historical figures, who through their history of struggle contributed to the development of your political theory is totally fine, ESPECIALLY if your opponent is attempting to paint their contributions to the theory and their very real struggle as irrelevant to the conversation. i actually think vaush had a decent rebuttal when he started to talk about appealing to people in the present day. i mean, i think that ultimately there is a case for reintegrating past socialist attempts and historical figures into the public consciousness and dispelling cold war propaganda, but at least if they continued that line of discussion it could have lead to something that is more future-looking than just trying to talk past one another of course i think that particular discussion is only really relevant for some countries in the present day, since the prevailing attitude in a LOT of countries, particularly those with a strong socialist/communist presence, the topic of socialist states and historical socialism is a lot more nuanced

[@dildonius]

@@deensama7718 If your only argument is that "so and so (who is now dead and cannot defend themself) agrees with what I think cuz I said so and so therefore I'm right" and if you say that disagreeing with something you said means that you want to have Albert Einstein murdered by Antifascist Supersoldiers because Einstein allegedly agreed with a viewpoint you hold, then you literally have no argument and your ideology cannot stand up to scrutiny. The kind of appeals to authority Caleb Muppet engaged in here literally only exist to shut any and all opposition up and demonize that opposition. The dude is literally a propagandist who is employed by an authoritarian government's state propaganda outlet.

[@JD-jl4yy]

"Socialism is when the government does stuff" -Caleb Maupin

[@jmanakajosh9354]

The state is a tool of class oppression. Capitalists use it to oppress workers. Communists use it to alter the structure of the economy. Therefore, it takes a State to do Communist things Therefore, some things that a State does can be Communist

[@sparksthedaytrader9606]

@@jmanakajosh9354 Stop exposing his lack of literacy and let him have his stupid meme!1!1

[@kobemop]

Yes? That's actually the bare minimum of what it is. Co-ops aren't necessarily "socialist" as competition can spawn from it. They can exist in any system, even free market type capitalism. You're probably thinking more of the lines of anarcho-syndicalism.

[@Darkerxz]

"Fascism is when the government does stuff" -Vaush

[@tarvoc746]

"Capitalism is when the government doesn't do stuff." - ancaps "Socialism is when the government doesn't do stuff." - neoliberals masking as ancoms

[@seththeawesome3366]

I zone out for like five seconds and this guy goes from calmly praising authoritarianism to malding about antifa.

[@anikmonette2140]

I no longer understand what is going on! I'm 4/5 in the video and I'm confused as hell...

[@Tp_hedgelinghog]

@@anikmonette2140 it's very personal to him that China is socialist, that they're atrocious at it is a personal attack, like attacking the state to a fascist.

[@omarfunches9833]

This guy is so triggered

[@timyrabbit]

Brain dead fans bro

[@sagelebrun4900]

@@anikmonette2140 Maupin gets lost in the talking point tree sometimes and glitches out and randomly spits out a topic hes researched once

[@hugmonger]

Im pretty sure Caleb Maupin is a character made by Jreg

[@comradefreedom8275]

Caleb is a cartoon character.

[@comradefreedom8275]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gmmypKmXnbyKsNk

[@scottsbarbarossalogic3665]

@@comradefreedom8275 There is another: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZyXXol6mtWMe7s

[@comradefreedom8275]

@@scottsbarbarossalogic3665 Yeah, Thought Slime is awesome too.

[@lostintime519]

im pretty sure, you ZERO critical thinking. "HeHe but he's a tankie hehe"

[@osjos2822]

Vaush: I don't think you g- Caleb: HAVE YOU HEARD OF DOCTOR SEUSS???!?!?!??!!

[@brandonbrown7713]

"comparing china to authoritarianism is wrong" "we need and authoratarian government" .....

[@MrDoomedtofail]

@Gage Acosta It's more democratic than a handful of wealthy elites using dictatorial power over everyone else

[@tarvoc746]

@Jean Sanchez Yeeah, all the people are going to get together peacefully and then unanimously decide to seize the means of production with no disagreement, let alone resistance whatsoever. And then all the cute pink unicorns are going to come down from the sky and bring peace and harmony forever. lol

[@vallewabbel9690]

@@tarvoc746 did anyone say that? No, you just made a cute looking strawman my dude.

[@Kraisedion]

@Gage Acosta How can you equate liberation struggle with dictatorship? Would you call overthrowing an absolute monarchy and implementing democracy dictatorial? Dictatorial power is different from ... power. That's why we add "dictatorial" in front as a specifier. It really seems like you are playing word games to justify your ideology.

[@twoplustwo5183]

@@MrDoomedtofail "... a handful of wealthy elites using dictatorial power over everyone else" A very brief description of China.

[@thomashayes873]

Holy shit, Vaush called the personality cult 2 years ago.

[@mikebiggums1921]

If the US government suddenly called itself communist one day but changed absolutely nothing systematically I bet this guy would start defending that too

[@jmanakajosh9354]

China has a planned economy. Sorry if you don't like reality but that's pretty fucking socialist.

[@unslaadkrosis3489]

j man you’re so misguided 😔

[@inovakovsky]

@Mars Falcon It is a planned economy with non-private firms (both state and co-op) is Marxists' vision of socialism

[@hemantkarasala5767]

To the tankies on this thread - The Green New Deal is planned Economy. And if Bernie passed that - that would be Democratic Socialism. Authoritarian centralized plans which are forced upon the populace is just authoritarianism. Y'all can't separate these things out? Planning has its place in libertarian socialism.

[@inovakovsky]

@@hemantkarasala5767 The green new deal is decentralized planning in a dew sectors in the economy, but most businesses remain in private ownership, hence, not really socialism. I am in favor of workplace democracy (except for the military) at confederations of co-ops and state-owned firms under a decentralized. Please reply. I appreciate any feedback.

[@AnimeFan9833]

Vaush: You're defending a genocidal authoritarian state Maupin: SO YOU WANT TO BEAT UP NELSON MANDELA

[@jmanakajosh9354]

You have to prove that Stalin was genocidal, you don't just get to *make things up* you have to have *sources that aren't the ROBERT CONQUEST & the CIA propaganda machine*

[@billbutton8468]

@@jmanakajosh9354 was that part even about Stalin? I thought they were talking about something current?

[@caydenmichael98]

That about sums up the debate.

[@inovakovsky]

@@chuckecheese5251 Yes. All claims have to be substantiated. For example, I back up my claims about history with reliable secondary sources.

[@mathieuleader8601]

he's already dead

[@boggo3848]

Why is Maupin continuously making a dreamworks face.

[@Yeonoson]

I kinda think he's drunk? I have no evidence, none, and I know it's an ad hominem but maybe he's just got that kind of face/attitude?

[@Liliputian07]

his fucking voice...

[@resm-oe9ji]

Trying his best to posture

[@Papercut625]

An unearned smug sense of intellectual superiority... I used to make that face all the time... and then I graduated college.

[@Sergio-nb4hj]

I was looking for this comment lmao

[@joshuab2926]

Oh no, not even past the intro and I'm already thinking "yikes, that's probably getting Caleb rock hard!"

[@Bashamo257]

"I felt like I was being scolded by a schoolteacher" Yep.

[@joshuab2926]

@@Bashamo257 Caleb gives us schoolteachers a bad name

[@brandonk.4864]

He says “I’m not a tankie”, and then goes on to defend tankies and list tons of great people who were “tankies”.

[@mauzki-]

He didn't call them tankies, he explained that vaush's view of what a tankie is means those figures would be tankies by vaush's definition.

[@GooglyGook12]

@Phil Mitchell I get Malcom... Why Garvey tho? He was literally a right-winger

[@vagrant9414]

He constantly conflates tankie with ML. As an anarchist I would say that there is a strong tendency for MLs to become tankies but even I wouldn't go as far as to say that they are the same.

[@at5203]

@@BBQcheese Chavismo is a cancer in Latin America and it makes all leftists movements here look bad just by existing.

[@Fin0fLenster]

@@mauzki- Why would it matter if those people are tankies by Vaush's definition?

[@ChannelMath]

Caleb: "China is a proletarian state because they have a stock market and almost no Chinese person owns stock". WTF?

[@jmanakajosh9354]

5 Year plans bud. Like it or not, even Saudi Arabia has *nationalized healthcare* socialist policies can exist in any state.

[@inovakovsky]

@Chris Pacheco Not necessarily and also there should be an absence of markets in Marxian socialism: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqm8loiObclkr9k

[@mjc4297]

@Chris Pacheco No it's not. If there are worker cooperatives that act in a free market system, then that system is still capitalism since the economy still operates on profits. You would still have all the inherent problems of capitalism under such an economy. Marxian socialism aims to get rid of markets, in favor of central planning. Now obviously, the ways to get there have been tried in different ways throughout history, with some countries going straight to central planning, whereas others gradually build up their material conditions first in order to transition into Marxian socialism (ala China). The fact is, the countries that are on a path towards socialism and have a vanguard party which controls the state are usually the ones to define what "socialism" is. Understanding this will help you understand what "socialism" actually is to the millions of people who have died trying to achieve it in a world full of imperialists.

[@MrxstGrssmnstMttckstPhlNelThot]

@@jmanakajosh9354 Xi Jinping has recently said he wants to move away from central planning to increasing the power of the market forces in China, and that's not CIA propaganda it's literally on the official website of the Chinese government.

[@greensquare6235]

@@jmanakajosh9354 Government welfare programs aren't socialist.

[@vantahawk2834]

"I just have questions about " - the red edition

[@daviddaniello7222]

Holodomer, chechen genocide, uhiger genocide, Estonian russofication, etc. etc. etc.

[@kbolternorris2676]

@@daviddaniello7222 these are the same people who deny that the ussr or china are imperialist, so what do you expect.

[@robertthedevil7598]

Or they claim genocide was caused entirely by weather, like Mao's failed agricultural plans in the 50s, or the Holodomor was the fault of "rich" farmers in cahoots with the West. Never a depraved state!

[@daviddaniello7222]

@@robertthedevil7598 God I'm so tired of tankie states. I'm so tired of liberal states. Libleft state time. Lets just try it.

[@joshm3584]

yes it's not a genocide, there is literally no reliable evidence for this you guys just hate China.

[@fevierenie671]

Man sits here, while his subordinates are forced to live in abandoned houses, eat from the dumpster and sell their bodies to survive.

[@JasperCoen]

This debate was the political equivalent of trying to teach trigonometry to a five-year-old with an airhorn.

[@brianhooper8563]

your right when is vaush going to get it!!!!

[@cctomcat321]

@@brianhooper8563 you're* Owned.

[@dildonius]

@@brianhooper8563 Get what?

[@loganpharis6747]

@@dildonius Your dad

[@thegtafanboy]

@@dildonius that mainstream social democratic politics are bunk in America

[@Vfin-cn1pu]

Hulk Hogan? TANKIE Einstein? TANKIE Karl Marx? TANKIE Obama? TANKIE Jesus of nazereth? TANKIE The girl reading this? TANKIE Vaush? TANKIE Checkmate radlibs!

[@johngr1747]

I'm a guy so I'm not a tankie *dab* lol

[@aliasofgray2854]

@@johngr1747 n o t y e t . . .

[@lighterflud]

Hotel? TRIVAGO

[@ghxstbabyx]

😪😪😪😪😪 i’m no tankie how dare u

[@CosyProlific]

Im not a tankie D:

[@udonge1043]

retrospectively calling historical figures "tankies" and using the term "anti-tankieism" is the CRINGEIST thing i have ever heard

[@Rainaman-]

Meh, its a funny 4chan thing

[@joeyjones4929]

"Nelson Mandela and Albert Einstein were tankies" CRINGE

[@gideon903]

@KazuTrash that's cool, except that it's nothing even remotely like what Vaush said a more apt characterization would be that Vaush supports the excising of people who support a regime that aligns state with corporation to suppress the workers, and is currently in the process of committing a genocide, from the Left.

[@sargonsblackgrandfather2072]

Aidan903 but Einstein and Mandela did defend the Soviet Union so by Vaush’s definition they were tankies.

[@ascii_9727]

@@sargonsblackgrandfather2072 dude it's almost like you _want_ to be against vaush no matter what, you're literally not even listening to the words he says lmao

[@joshuajennings4070]

Coming back to this after the shit that's happened recently is insane. This debate has simultaneously aged like milk and wine

[@Pragabond]

Vaush literally called it with "I think you give a fuck about some personality cult you're trying to build" at 52:21

[@sheogorath1524]

So jizz...

[@unclescipio3136]

Well, this aged well. For Vaush, not for the human Droopy.

[@philipdowdell3429]

this aged real well

[@jackthepanda]

@@philipdowdell3429 yes especially here at 2:34

[@viscounttudon68]

@@jackthepanda The smile after the scolding comment. S u s

[@unclescipio3136]

@@Jeremy-hx7zj heh. Spankie Tankie..

[@crocve]

Destroyed got debated in this Destiny. (I got brain damage from hearing Caleb speaking)

[@megaalan12]

Nelson Mandela, Huey Newton, Albert Einstein, and Hellen Keller got destroyed in this debate.

[@dmoneyonair]

Alan Schwarzweller king koopa got destroyed in this debate

[@hadronoftheseus8829]

MUTHAFUCKA SYNTAX, IT SPEAK, DO YOU?!?!

[@bingbong1767]

Rewatching because i now know this guy likes to be spanked.

[@zillafire101]

"You would've had Albert Einstein spanked!" -Caleb "Spankie Tankie" Maupin

[@corporalcore]

Destiny punched Einstein in this debate

[@brandonvestra]

His LA Noire smile is such a pisstake to see

[@mrr2762]

Why did you say that. I cant unsee it now

[@TheMiddiefrosh]

@@mitchie2267 cry more

[@Unending_Joy]

@@mitchie2267 haven't I seen you in dankie kangs' comment sections bruv

[@notfadeaway5724]

NELSON MANDELA WAS A TANKIE! (X to doubt)

[@Distimmer]

@@notfadeaway5724 should the ANC have disarmed in the face of hostile, white, South Africans?

[@SemiIocon]

52:35 Vaush accidentally calls Maupin out on wanting to build a personality cult, lmao

[@GibusWearingMann]

The thing that strikes me the most about this one is that Maupin didn't even need to defend or dismiss anything about the Uyghur genocide. He could've just been like "yeah they are doing a genocide and that's bad" and moved on with his "China is a flawed example of socialism in practice but we can still learn things from it" point. But no. He just _had_ to defend China's name at all costs, showing his true colors in the process.

[@classuscle1605]

10:03 "I'm interested in defending socialism, not personalities." 11:07 'Here's all these personalities I'm going to defend...'

[@headsworthtg3585]

appeal to authority! Appeal to authority!!

[@agentflame5513]

2:33 Vaush calling Caleb out on being weird about his kink 2 years in advance. The gift of prophecy

[@connortobin3775]

So wtf is this all about? So many comments allude to it but I feel like I'm in the dark here

[@keyboardcockatoo4567]

@@connortobin3775 maupin was exposed for some gross behavior behind the scenes as well as endangering the well-being both physically and mentally of his group. he’s also a guy with an embarrassing spanking fetish. he gradually groomed some younger people into feeding into his said fetish. he’s a freak you can look into it all- there was a massive exposé on him. vaush himself has a video covering it

[@connortobin3775]

@@keyboardcockatoo4567 ah, thank you

[@HannibalHanslaughter]

"I'm not saying Hitler was a good guy but he DID revitalize the economy by building an Autobahn."

[@DrillEntertainmentNetwork]

he never said that 😂

[@secretxxstars]

@@DrillEntertainmentNetwork the comment was making a comparison, basically saying that Maupin's argument is essentially like saying that

[@Steve_evets]

This debate begins with vaush pointing out the wierd teacher scolding at the beginning and ends with "I think you (only) give a fuck about your little cult personality you're trying to build [...]", with an hour of shitting all over him for genocide denialism in between. this aged like fine wine. Definitely recommend the rewatch 👌

[@dog-ez2nu]

The big flaw here is saying 'the workers seized the means of production', in the examples of socialist countries he suggested. No, it was a one-party state (and even just a military dictatorship) that seized the means of production. They were barely accountable to the workers, most of the time couldn't be effectively challenged or criticised. A new elite and and a new hierarchy. THIS is the ultimate Tankie meme.

[@dog-ez2nu]

Also genocide denial gets two dabs from me. ''''''''WE DONT HAVE ALL THE FACTS''''''''

[@brianbriones2815]

This was over the moment he said that China is proletarian because the means of production are owned by the state. Damn.

[@tonyslater7204]

Is that not what socialism is? if not, who owns the means of production in a "true" socialist system?

[@TheKrozoa]

@@tonyslater7204 the people who work there would democratically decide what to produce and how to produce it. So the people working there would collectively own the means of production.

[@deotemp886]

@@tonyslater7204 the... Workers? Socialism is the worker ownership of the means of production and the decomotification of goods.

[@kbolternorris2676]

@@tonyslater7204 as was said already the workers should own the means of production in a properly defined socialist system. Some people strive for total ownership of every means of production by the entire society, equally, but say workers of a factory owning said factory and so on and so forth should suffice. The problem with China is that the state owns those means partially, but that isn't even the main problem personally. The state proceeds to exploit workers, that is have them work then add a certain surplus value to those goods, then it proceeds to keep the newly gained capital. The state acts like a corporation in that it keeps profits for itself ( high ranking executives get lots of green paper ) instead of say redistributing that capital in form of housing or food or maybe tax exemption for workers like in a socialist-er state, for example.

[@Nyanx4]

@@TheKrozoa B-but... but socialism is when the gubberment does bad things

[@biggerdoofus]

Holy cow, it's actual Tankie Steve Bannon. Like, he literally used the arguments and tactics Philosophy Tube mocked with his Arsonist character in the second half of this debate.

[@Fuwutaba]

biggerdoofus damn he really did,,,,, and he looks a lot like the arsonist uh oh

[@claires1063]

Lol weird reading this now with Abigail out

[@claires1063]

@@GODOFHELLFIRE3 Is this, like, an own or something? I just came across the comment. No one fucking cares.

[@claires1063]

@@GODOFHELLFIRE3 and definitely not your brother btw

[@Busshhu]

@@claires1063 what'd they say?

[@gecko5518]

Man, this debate really aged like the finest of wines.

[@caradine898]

Its truly astonishing that people think quoting shit from famous theorists or activists is an argument.

[@caradine898]

@@vegantubers5585 yeah but that was clearly to drive home the point using the same tactic, showing how *we* can do the same shit because anyone can pick a quote from a famous theorist.

[@caradine898]

@thesparitan oh yeah, I watched the VOD yesterday, i just came to comment this lmao

[@scottw9267]

Hahahahaha

[@AnimeFan9833]

@@twentyfaces62 Appealing to marxist literature is only valid when what you're quoting includes an actual argument.

[@Octavian2]

@@caradine898 And Caleb's point was to show a wide range of people who could be considered Tankie, or close to it, that doesn't fit the stereotype. But you must have missed that.

[@metaouroboros690]

When Vaush said that Caleb was even more smug than AJW before the debate, I didn't believe him. Boy was I wrong. Going from the AJW debate to this was fascinating, because each of the three stages of the AJW debate got progressively dumber, and then this turned out to be even worse. It was a sliding slope of suffering.

[@anzoom7976]

Whos ajw

[@Nina-cd2eh]

Honestly, I just expected Caleb to be a calm dude gish galloping using arbitrary quotes from famous leftists or something, but hwow boy if this wasn't a trainwreck. Reminds me of CopperCab. lmao

[@YouAintGotNoTegridyBoi]

What are you talking about Vaush for destroyed in that debate?

[@zippidisx2749]

Yeah not only did Vaush lose in every single part of the debate, just proved to me that he is so insufferable that he is actually a beat the fuck out of him on sight type of guy

[@shannon510butno.3]

Imagine thinking vaush lost that debate tho 😶

[@americaninsurgent4403]

I usually listen to debates in the background but this dude’s facial expressions when he debates are hilarious, I remember from the Destiny debate. I gotta actually watch this one

[@ironside10]

Maupen liked that joke about being scolded by a school teacher

[@courtney9180]

Vaush was called a rad lib in this debate

[@Emincem13]

Comrade Courtney vaush was being a rad lib in this debate.

[@gianniskesidis8289]

@@Emincem13 spot on

[@Markunator]

Cem - No, he wasn’t?

[@courtney9180]

Cem ,, not simping for stalin = rad lib apparently LULW

[@emberreed6374]

Vaush somehow manages to be accused of being both a class reductionist and a rad lib

[@bigkroner766]

So THESE are the lefties Destiny is always freaking out about

[@internetdrifter3856]

@@opheliaoftheripples9472 as far as I’m concerned, tankies aren’t even remotely socialist, or leftist, or communist. They’re Nazis with vaguely leftist aesthetics.

[@villedocvalle]

Don’t watch Destiny. You’ll stunt you’re ability to think critically.

[@avenuePad]

Yeah, and the fact that Destiny doesn't like them makes me think they're probably on the correct side.

[@avenuePad]

@Aditya Chavarkar Of course it is. I was being hyperbolic. That said, I don't take Destiny or Vaush very seriously.

[@sodaholic228]

Mum can we have Leftist Unity by Jreg? No we have Leftist Unity at home Leftist Unity at home:

[@diegosanchez894]

That song slaps.

[@eoghan.5003]

Vaush has JregBlocked us once again

[@unslaadkrosis3489]

I don’t want unity with these authoritarian monsters. I want to make the world a better place, I want to help people. They want a 1984 style dictatorship.

[@CervantesVI]

2:35 Oh God, this takes on a really dark turn with the recent allegations

[@hornet1065]

Yeah, that hit really differently now. Look at how Maupin smiled right after Vaush said teacher! 🤮

[@threadbearr8866]

He smiled tho. Was that a "Oh if you only knew. Lul" smile or a "Hell yeah talk to me like that some more man."?

[@goodluckgorsky3413]

“I’m not a lawyer of China” he says while equating Vaush with all of US media

[@Darkerxz]

He didn't quite equate them, he just said he was using western media when he referenced "plurality of sources" in reference to the uyghur genocide

[@euso2008]

No, he's pointing out how Vaush blindly believes western narrative without critical thinking, which is objectively true to a certain extent.

[@euso2008]

@@johb3930 "B-but muh uyghurs! There are no workers in the party!" He said some cringy shit while talking about stuff he clearly has no proper knowledge. But I'd never claim it's always the case, sometimes he can see through the bullshit, especially on topics he's actually well informed. Not on this shitshow of a debate though.

[@lankylemon8555]

Vaush bases his knowledge of history entirely on the mainstream US narrative

[@KissatenYoba]

@@lankylemon8555 remember "research" streams with Vaush going over wikipedia page - and that's it? And then defending wikipedia as a source because "they list sources"? Yeaaaah

[@ttbr7687]

Hey Vaush I want to start my own union, when do I get my CIA paycheck?

[@davidr5284]

This has to have been the single worst debate for tankie optics to date

[@HumanIsError]

I didn't know what a tankie was but I had seen people say "fuck tankies" if this is what they are then I think I agree with that statement.

[@madeline7272]

@@HumanIsError yep. This guy is what most tankies are like

[@theSixthInternationalist]

no. tankies are not comrades. end of debate. thanks for coming everybody

[@richardarriaga6271]

Ukraine really settled that question

[@jeremyw9709]

Caleb: You're probably gonna give this video a name like "I DESTROYED Some Tankie" Also Caleb: Uploads this to his channel with the title "Vaush equates China with NeoNazis & Holocaust Denial"

[@Shannon_Lynch]

@@evan2173 the point is Caleb is all condescending when he suggests Vaush will give the video a clickbatey title that presents himself as the winner & then does the same on his channel

[@formbi]

but Falsh did equate support for China with nazism and holocaust denialism

[@timekeeper2538]

@@formbi Yeah, that's about right. Stop supporting genocidal, totalitarian states and it won't happen anymore.

[@Kropothead]

@@formbi If I were a tankie, I would simply not support genocide.

[@Envy11235]

@@formbi I'd argue that stanning ANY authoritarian stanning is equal to defending nazism and genocide denial.

[@ascii_9727]

Important reminder that when Vaush talks about tankies he doesn't mean "any socialist who's not an anarchist". Honest Marxist-Leninists are comrades

[@ascii_9727]

@@buppy_gaming every time he talks about tankies on this channel he queues up with a "mls are not tankies by default btw". It's literally what he says in his "clarifying my position on tankies" video but I'm sure I am the one lying here

[@Sinthe]

No they aren't. Marxism-Leninism is not Leninism, and it's not Marxism. It's a term coined by Stalin to describe his state ideology. LeftComs, Leninists, Trots, Marxists, Anarchists, are all comrades. State-capitalists are not.

[@komradebigchungus7268]

@@Sinthe Marxism-Leninism is Leninism, Stalin was a Leninist if you believe that he was a state capitalist which is of course bulshit, you may as well consider Lenin as a state capitalist

[@komradebigchungus7268]

@@Sinthe Yes all Ultra leftoid kiddos are comrades but rational people arent

[@JacatackLP]

TRUE

[@23lFrench]

Caleb’s “I’m better than you” smug facial expressions are hard to watch

[@unslaadkrosis3489]

It’s just so forced and unnatural. He’s using the reactionary strategy of “just being assertive and smug makes me right.”

[@23lFrench]

Unslaad Krosis the Sargon debate tactic

[@inovakovsky]

@@unslaadkrosis3489 Vaush had obnoxious expressions, which has no affect on his points.

[@unslaadkrosis3489]

J Stevinik why do you like genocide and dictatorship so much tankie?

[@PiPArtemis]

I kinda like it cuz it makes his malding breakdown around 44:00 even funnier to watch

[@mikealexander1935]

I used to think "tankie" meant being "in the tank" for self-proclaimed socialist states like the USSR, but have now found that it refers to leftists who supported "sending in the tanks" during the Soviet interventions in 1956 and 1968.

[@saraowen3455]

I swear Maupin was arguing against his own position half the time. “There are many labor struggles going on in China right now” oh so the workers aren’t liberated??

[@speakerforthedead2]

@@withoutleaders no one wants to go to war with China my guy, but genocide denialism is ACTUALLY some fascist shit. That coupled with his willingness to cowtow toward authoritarianism "for the worker" (which, I might add, IS. NOT. HAPPENING. IN. CHINA.) is all antithetical to communism. This man isn't a communist or a leftist. And he does not have the same goals as a leftist.

[@saraowen3455]

gage stdon then how does it work

[@kobemop]

I bet you're one of the people that thinks, muh socialism is for free stuff. You gotta work too to revel in the benefits.

[@kobemop]

@@speakerforthedead2 we're aware of the genocides and they're wrong. We're just celebrant of the achievements USSR, Cuba, North Korea, China, and Vietnam had made.

[@curiousfella4076]

There's no (known) method to establish communism today. In that sense the state that best facilitates a combination of development and worker struggle is the most socialist. Socialism, socialist states, these are aspirational stages towards communism, communism being an end goal that we're so far removed from that we cannot know much about it.

[@TheSAWsPlea]

"Socialism is when the government does stuff unironically"

[@drycellar3863]

Coming from someone living ina country with corrupt socialist scum in power: Socialism is when the government abuses its power and enslaves the population.

[@ryno4ever433]

@@drycellar3863 Nah that's what tankie boy wants.

[@Cream12345Ice]

@@drycellar3863 commit from someone from Yugoslavia it was way better when we had socialism

[@onehumanhistory]

Every Maupin debate I've ever seen ends up like this

[@kevinq8005]

no

[@magnusyarbrough5527]

so youve seen this one and thats it?

[@ellusivegman]

@@magnusyarbrough5527 Ah, found the Caleb toady. Caleb is the physical manifestation of bad faith. Prove me wrong.

[@mutedknght]

Its like he only knows how to gish gallop and never stops

[@PiPArtemis]

>ramble for twice as long as the other person >pivot and change the subject when asked a question >victim card >get mad and bail Yeah, that's about right from what I've seen too

[@logana5493]

In light of recent events, I think Caleb just took this debate to take care of his humiliation fetish since his Dom was out of town that week.

[@beowyfe]

This Maupin guy seems interesting. Wonder what he's up to now... 🤔

[@muhdancent4362]

Surely a nice game of paddleball with his loved ones 👌

[@beowyfe]

@@muhdancent4362 oh boy! Sure sounds fun, hope he lets me have a go with the paddle! ☺️🏏

[@iz2333]

He definitely seemed very excited to get into the conversation around 2:30

[@beowyfe]

@@iz2333 LMAOOOOO!

[@muhdancent4362]

@@beowyfe Be sure to let Mr. Maupin sit down. Surely he'll be sore in his bottom and unable to sit for a while...from all that paddleball of course.

[@px7107]

Caleb Maldpin be like: "Socialism is when the government does stuff. That's why I'm a socialist."

[@harry-ee6eg]

The workers are the ones who do the "stuff". The goverment is the one organazing the people and the companies to do it

[@px7107]

@@harry-ee6eg Socialism is worker ownership of the means of production.

[@harry-ee6eg]

@@px7107 Stop watching Richard Wolff and look at what other countries are trying to do. Cooperatives are good but is not the solution. You need a strong state and the biggest industries run by the state, like banking, natural resources and basic utilities

[@px7107]

@@commissarcardsharp And by more complicated you mean more authoritarian?

[@px7107]

@@harry-ee6eg Sure, I bet you're smarter than Wolff and Chomsky. What "other countries"? Russia? China? They're authoritarian hell holes. Nothing socialist about them.

[@JBlazingit]

Imagine getting so destroyed in a debate that you write a book for that big hit of copuim

[@ahh_yes_mr_bax]

You know he only decided to write that book because of this debate and most likely started it very shortly after he shut off the stream.

[@zking2929]

@@ahh_yes_mr_bax His pen name is probably Caleb Stalin.

[@LimeyLassen]

First time in my life I've heard the phrase "dogwhistling to anarchists"

[@dead_yami]

There was one guy commenting every post on a different tankie debate saying how Vaush is afraid to debate Caleb. This ones for you!!

[@comradejeramy7017]

Vaush is afraid to debate ML's in good faith, he will always resort to regurgitating red scare propaganda and baseless nazi comparisons.

[@blankslate7315]

Comrade Jeramy Vaush clearly isn’t scared to debate them, he already has and he had no problem with it, you could just as easily say that ML’s are afraid to debate him in good faith because they just resort to ta lie propaganda, it doesn’t inherently mean anything. You don’t have to like Vaush or agree with him on everything (I don’t agree with him in voting for Biden for example, especially since Vaush lives in a safe state, so why would he) but that doesn’t mean he’s afraid to debate ML’s when he already debates people that he disagrees with all the time. You could just as easily be accused of bad faith and fearing good faith by baselessly accusing him of fear, but that wouldn’t mean much or necessarily be true now would it? There’s nothing scary to Vaush about talking to people that he disagrees with over the internet and I think that he’s demonstrated that. I rambled long enough so I’ll end it here.

[@jmanakajosh9354]

Were was the Mod for this?

[@jmanakajosh9354]

@@blankslate7315 Vaush is a liar who calls people like FinnishBolshevik and Caleb Tankies....how the hell is that GOOD FAITH?

[@QosmicVoid]

@@jmanakajosh9354 Well considering Caleb calls *himself* a Tankie, this doesn't seem to be off to a good start. Keep trying though.

[@FratFerno]

"Granted, yeah, there were some things and such that China might have done at some unknown point in time that were not particularly good, BUT..."

[@jmanakajosh9354]

DUDE AMERICA HAD SLAVERY AMERICA HAS BLACKS IN LABOR CAMPS WHO HAVE NOT GONE TO TRIAL IT'S DISHONEST TO CRITICIZE CHINA WITHOUT CONTEXT

[@caydenmichael98]

@@jmanakajosh9354 I got news for ya... You can criticize both China and America 😱

[@josemvacar]

@@caydenmichael98 And I got news for you, you can criticize either or both while amounting to nothing... That's exactly what Vaush does in a daily basis.

[@JGD44]

@@caydenmichael98 amen. 🙌

[@caydenmichael98]

@@josemvacar Or I don't know you could have a thing called principles and call out shitty actions of any state 🤯

[@luisg.lazzarisdoamaral3016]

What a classic. When Caleb Maupin starts talking he is literally unstoppable, every point becomes an extremely long essay

[@ShabazzTBL]

Of loosely related bullshit.

[@rambafusto2958]

@@ShabazzTBL ‘Loosely’ is pretty generous.

[@ShabazzTBL]

@@rambafusto2958 true.

[@SinisterGrapefruit]

Welcome back, enjoy rewatching this with new context

[@predsdreads3179]

Revisiting this banger after the Maupin news dropped.

[@ryanknepel7970]

Really giving him a spanking there, Vaush...

[@AdorawithLove]

2:35 JESUS THAT AGED HORRIBLY

[@alrecks619]

like fine EGG

[@Pitts_not_Pitty]

Caleb came a little hearing vaush say shame!!

[@AdorawithLove]

@@Pitts_not_Pitty I know! His little weird eyebrows bounced when he said the words "school teacher"

[@UmQasaann]

​@@AdorawithLove Both Vaush and Caleb Maupin are sex pests cloaking as leftists.

[@ghostofrei7412]

I personally find it quit funny that Caleb literally tried and tried to equate current china ,to china of the past (time of Mao or during the Chinese revolution). Like their is not any sociological or economic differences between then and now. One thing I know for a fact is that modern china does not support internationalism anymore which is a key tenet of socialism in case if you did not know! So when modern china abandons Maoist communists in the Philippines in favor of a blood thirsty oligarch ( Rodrigo Duterte) or their constant aggression towards Vietnam , that tells me the Chinese government is not fighting for the interest of the international proletariat. That tells us they are no more our allies than the united states government.

[@Distimmer]

Well, a lot of the same people are still alive, and the 'market experiment' is still very much a controlled thing there. I do agree they are hella authoritarian tho. I had a friend who worked there for a couple years as an English teacher.

[@kobemop]

Are you choosing to ignore China's belt and road initiative? Also it's developments in Africa? China is doing more for the world than Amerikkka.

[@Distimmer]

@@kobemop well, to be fair... a lot of the OBOR stuff, (even though it's not being done with a heavy fist) can be criticized for being one-sided and extractive business deals. I still like it, but... eyes wide open!

[@JGD44]

@@kobemop China in Africa right now is basically like Europe in Africa, just with a slightly better coat of paint to hide the pillaging.

[@ghostofrei7412]

@Bayleaf542 Me pointing out their goal is not to build socailism internationally and are just competing against western nations is some how a "false point". Nice to know that people are ready to throw the prols on a fire when their not advancing chinese impearlism!

[@BullofCrete]

If I give Vaush one thing in this debate, it's that when talking about China, he was right to point out that Caleb never really discussed the actual workers and their relationship to the means of production. The closest he got was "the PRC lifted millions out of poverty".

[@lankylemon8555]

Which is the truth, that last part

[@BullofCrete]

@@lankylemon8555 Lots of countries "lift people out of poverty". Lifting people out of poverty doesn't make a country socialist.

[@hellboy6507]

The Bull How is China not a socialist state? It calls itself socialist. It is internationally recognized as a socialist state. It is academically described as a socialist state. Just because is isn’t “my kind of socialism” doesn’t mean it isn’t socialist.

[@bobjenkins4925]

The gish galloping from this guy is ridiculous

[@Nutcrackercs]

yeah, Vaush often uses dirty tactics(

[@ethandolechek7389]

Nutcrackercs Nice bait

[@craydogdog1530]

​@@Nutcrackercs I don't agree with Caleb regarding China, but saying Caleb hates America was stupid and out of the blue point from Vaush.

[@tonyslater7204]

What is gish galloping? How does Vaush not engage in it?

[@misternull4753]

@@craydogdog1530 he didn't actually say that Caleb hates America. He just "raised the question" about whether Caleb was only defending China because he hated America. It's just a question, after all, we don't have all the facts; much like with the alleged Uyghur genocide.

[@snuzzlebumble]

Vaush's closing statement at 51:00 calling him a cultist and his ideology leading to cultist thought was 100% accurate now!

[@laudanumloculai]

The way Caleb whips his head up to smirk into the camera when Vaush said it grossed me out.

[@aristizle8797]

The Spankie Tankie

[@eric-miles4025]

He's so mad

[@lebecccomputer287]

Juche Supremacy lmfao you have nooooo clue what you’re talking about

[@djvibes3704]

@@mitchie2267 Caleb Maupin called Vaush a McCarthyist, think about that for a sec and tell me who's acting in bad faith

[@douglaslangley9251]

@@mitchie2267 Caleb malding for a good 60 seconds after Vaush and the mod implored him to stop? Super good faith amirite?

[@doetoe6759]

@@djvibes3704 vaush keep calling caleb anti-American and a Nazi for questioning the US mainstream media.

[@mayayamato7351]

@@doetoe6759 except he didn't do that at all. Vaush pointed out there was evidence that had nothing to do with the US media about China putting Uigher Muslims into camps.