Are the Rattlers REALLY the Fireflies? - The Last of Us Part 2 Analysis

I try to answer the question - are the Rattlers SECRETLY the Fireflies in disguise and Abby and Lev were tricked at the end of the game?
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About Video Game Sophistry:
Video Game Sophistry is an opportunity to celebrate the creators and the artistry found in Video Games. I believe that Games are the most effective medium from experiencing another world, and another way to live. Expect to see a series of videos showcasing the narratives hidden in every game, interviews with game developers, along with our bench mark weekly podcast, Dialogue Wheel.
Andy Borkowski started this program nearly 10 years ago and, in that time, it has changed from a simple KZbin show, to a radio show, a TV show and now once again a KZbin destination. Welcome to VGS.
Are the Rattlers REALLY the Fireflies? - The Last of Us Part 2 Analysis
• Are the Rattlers REALL...
VGS - Video Game Sophistry
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[@VideoGameSophistry]

I’m pretty convinced that not only are the Fireflies real - BUT that ending scene is Catalina island and Abby Lev have found their new home - thoughts?

[@charlest.5742]

I'd 100% agree. That ending screen is definitely like a wink from the developers proving the existence of the Fireflies. I disagreed with your point that this was a result of a narrative mistake because I think it was definitely intentional to create some tension for the player.

[@krcjayhawks]

Agreed - I really hope that's the case and leads into the next game

[@anthonyjames2453]

Dude all you youtubers are funny but ur right on this

[@averageguy5350]

I think the developers will continue the story

[@FredFajardo]

EDIT: On the Kinda Funny Games Spoilercast with Neil, Ashley and Troy, Neil confirmed that the shore on the menu screen after you finish the game isn't Santa Barbara, but Catalina Island. Therefore implying that the 'round building' where Abby was held by the Rattlers isn't the 'domed building' mentioned by the person she was talking to on the radio. Sooooo I guess we're gonna be looking for the light in part 3.

[@MichaelAngeloLives]

Druckmann said in an interview with Kinda Funny that the ending title screen is Catalina Island and it's implied she and Lev made it.

[@VideoGameSophistry]

I couldn't get through nearly 2 hours of that

[@thermalheater9778]

@@VideoGameSophistry lmao

[@toxilex4474]

It would be awesome to continue the journey with Abby and lev travelling across the country looking for fireflies in the same way Joel and Ellie did in the first game

[@flip8966]

Toxilex maybe a DLC I would buy it but being a stand alone game like a part 3 Mmmmm idk I’m sure Druckmann isn’t stupid to just do a Abby game without Ellie

[@cheez3184]

@@toxilex4474 no

[@ThePatriots010304]

When you first start playing as Abby in Santa Barbara looking for the address, Lev mentioned how they were there the previous week. So it seems like Abby and Lev were in the area for quite awhile and the Rattlers just tracked them down.

[@MrJcdelete18]

MrWereverforever Abby did give them their current location

[@iterationfackshet1990]

MrJcdelete18 well yeah. I think the rattlers did leave the radio there as anyone passing through and finds there may be fireflies nearby will definitely used it. So they have someone constantly listening on that line for anyone trying to contact the fireflies. I feel like the rattlers were at some point either in contact with the fireflies or fireflies due to how militarized they were. Based on the first game the fireflies aren’t good at all with surviving so the rattlers could’ve picked them of and stolen their gear, as it’s pretty easy to pass through Santa Barbra on your way to Catalina island. If the fireflies still do exist they would in no way be able to fight back against fedra, the virus nor the groups that feed on the weak like the rattlers. If Abby does find them (it’s been a few months) they could already be wiped out. Hell based on the NG+ main menu screen with how the boat is nearly destroyed (you’d need a much bigger boat to reach Catalina island) I’d say Abby and Lev died on their way to Catalina island. Don’t believe me, well Catalina island is 102 miles from Santa Barbra. Taking into account the waves and the fact that they have no food nor water, they’d die within a few days (especially since they were likely crucified for a while).

[@cameronbarrett8862]

@@iterationfackshet1990 Neil has stated that the ending menu screen implies that Abby and Lev made it to Catalina island and the fireflies.......ssoooooo im sorry but your just wrong.

[@alessandroanimali2637]

Frankly,.I don't even care about what Druckmann says anymore. No DLC, no Factions mode ...originale lore destroyed ... Only two things I liked were some of the new characters (Abby, Jesse and Owen) and the rattlers

[@rhiannonlewis7963]

@@cameronbarrett8862 he actually never confirmed or denied.

[@madimakatayev8919]

I can’t imagine how is that for those people who live in locations mentioned in game to see their neighbourhood and saying: shiiiit man, that’s the alley I used to go through every day on my way to school!!! etc

[@coldfusionbeam]

I grew up around Seattle and had a blast identifying all of the little details. The ferry, Emeral City comic con, the aquarium and arcade on the waterfront. Once I saw that little tourist map, I knew that these people did some research.

[@rhi2180]

Yup!! I grew up right across from the Seattle aquarium so it was kinda wild to see all the spots they hit! Pretty accurate for the most part :)

[@LennyCartwright]

Have you seen the video that compares the Seattle locations in the game with the actual locations? It's insane!

[@rhi2180]

Lenny Cartwright I have!! It’s really cool

[@hannahs.9006]

I live in Seattle and it was crazy seeing the rainbow pathway in downtown Seattle when Ellie and Dina are trying to find Leah.

[@peanutbutternoodles9603]

It’s 100% the fireflies, I live like 4 cities away from Santa Barbara and we went to Catalina several times. That dome building is identical

[@alexanderlopezrodriguez4718]

@@lego_droid1396 you are weird

[@kingjayswishiii_388]

@@lego_droid1396 😂

[@ab_077]

thats pretty cool!

[@ricardorivera6543]

So the rattlers were fire flies?

[@bagofchips8399]

PeanutButter Noodles sounds like a rattler name................ *sus sound effect*

[@nicholaswilliams6475]

"Santa Barbara content got trimmed." I thought so! It really felt like we were going to go do another Seattle-worth of content on Santa Barbara. There were new enemies, new environment, new faction, new offensive concept (release the infected). It just felt like there was going to be more to it than "go to the cylindrical building, shoot a bunch of guys, and then fight Abby, game end."

[@cameronpavelic500]

As much as I’d like the game to keep going, if Santa Barbara had the same amount of content as Seattle, this game would be longer than most single player RPGs. I loved the Santa Barbara part, but this game was already 20 hours+ by the time you get there. Even longer if you increase the difficulty. It’s never a good thing to outstay ones welcome.

[@Lilhajxjk274]

I heard there is rumors of a directors cut. They might ad it

[@barrysmithhy1583]

no thanks, game was already way too long. if anything that whole rattlers sections could have been cut.

[@gangg1762]

What’s so bad about a game being long? I don’t understand it. As long as it’s not extremely repetitive, which tlou2 is not, it’s simply more bang for your buck. I would’ve loved to get a Santa Barbara segment as long as seattle

[@LiquidusSnakeX]

@@gangg1762 I think Santa Barbara should have been a nice 5-6 hour long DLC or so and the main game should have ended on the farm. It's such a weird thing at the end of the game.

[@dochollidazed961]

"Led by fat Geralt." Gave me a good chuckle 😁

[@the_fetus_run8992]

Winds how- oh shit ellie hmmm fck

[@ExtremeGamingHD3D]

Wow, great research. I think 99.9% of players thought the domed building mentioned by the guy on the radio and the rattlers building were the same. I thought so too. So you enjoyed the game, right?

[@connordrake5713]

Well, you will double think about the boat that was strangely there for unknown reasons. It is really safe to say that it is the boat Abby and Lev used to go to Catalina Island as Ellie never used the boat and instead go back to Jackson.

[@marcotschilar1531]

I thought so too it would be the same round building, but afterthought, he said on an island, and we where on mainland. So, it all makes sense. Just by cha chance, the two round buildings are different ones

[@astronomical3342]

No offense but just because you didn’t know doesn’t mean 99% didn’t know

[@TheStarkz]

@@astronomical3342 I thought this was a sarcastic comment? LMAO

[@rockbreaker4243]

Good point Also did anyone notice that the rattlers group who kidnapped abby just appeared after abby finished the radio conversation? Maybe they localed her from radio signal

[@wrecksbrixton4569]

Lived in Santa Barbara, the round building is the music conservatory next to butterfly beach.

[@VideoGameSophistry]

Amazing! Got a link I could check out?

[@wrecksbrixton4569]

I tripped out when I saw it in the game I used to work next to that building and take lunch breaks on the beach. The geography is pretty spot on. Contsance is a a real Street(I lived 2 streets down) , and the straggler shooting himself is the the train station. downtown. Every time I take the train up there that is the exact spot I get off. Hope that helps.

[@wrecksbrixton4569]

I think it’s called the music Academy of the west. You should be able to google it.

[@HStrange]

@@VideoGameSophistry Couldn't find any round building in that location Brixton is talking about - however - I did find another building the kinda looks like the top part of the round building (The Santa Barbara Court House). Check google maps here: www.google.com/maps/@34.4250154,-119.7027329,3a,77.2y,124.29h,96.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHn6lZHC_3CK9FR71_mqsSA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=da

[@depouille]

@@wrecksbrixton4569 I live in Seattle, most of the game was very eerie in much the same way it was eerie for you, I bet.

[@dennisacac]

"If I ever were to lose you, I'd surely lose myself." Ellie lose herself by taking revenge, losing her 2 fingers, losing her ability to play the guitar. And Ellie losing Joel. The song already told us what's about to happen to Ellie in the beginning of the game.

[@kevvr3311]

And losing Dina and Jj at the end when she returns to the farm home

[@naughtygamerps46]

@@kevvr3311 dina probably went to Jackson and Ellie can still learn to play the guitar 😊

[@EnjiMC]

@@naughtygamerps46 true true

[@Mondoshawn]

Funny thing: She did not even appreciate Joel while he was around because of what he had done.

[@Deeznuggz8503]

And her pocket knife

[@zaniumstar9892]

Wasn't there a note that Ellie found in Santa Barbara about a straggler that escaped the rattlers. I recall her saying her husband died picking tomatoes and that she'll be back with friends, could very well be fireflies.

[@Gibbypastrami]

Exactly

[@edwilly1]

Yes. It’s right outside the resort (right before Ellie sees the tomatoe farm)

[@DDPunk18]

It’s been confirmed by Neil that the title screen at the end is Catalina Island.

[@michaelwashington2519]

yep if Abby gets a Happy ending with her finding the Fireflys then that's it I'm done with naughty dog

[@DDPunk18]

I’m pretty sure a third game will happen with Ellie and Abby once again involving the fireflies and aftermath of Part II.

[@bvicc20]

@@DDPunk18 Neil Druckman said that there would most likely not be a part 3

[@DDPunk18]

Source?

[@mattlombardi54]

Guys, no matter what Neil says, there will be a third game lol. He may not be involved anymore by that time but company’s don’t just write off a money maker lol. If there is a third I’ll definitely buy it and play it lol. One more thing lol, why the hate for Abby and not Ellie. Technically they are both pieces of shit, but also good, same for Joel and Tommy and all the rest of the characters big and small lol. I mean come on, Joel murdered the only guy that could have possibly made a cure lol, yes, one girls life is definitely an acceptable cost when it comes to being able to kill a global outbreak 🤣

[@OisinMKenny]

i'm very happy to see that abby and lev made it to safety. i hated having to play as her at the beginning but the narrative parallel to joel and ellie in that final scene of both games of being carried away to safety is so harrowing. i hate watching the cinematic of them getting caught by the rattlers. its very chilling. and we can all agree that slavery is one of the worst fates a person can end up in.

[@bingus1895]

But lev getting his shit rocked is hilarious

[@Gibbypastrami]

@@bingus1895 lmao forreal that bang and the way he crumpled was hilarious when you know they both live by the end, brutal asf

[@bingus1895]

@@Gibbypastrami BONK

[@zacktaylor8178]

@@bingus1895 😭 past all the horror yeah that moment visually is so stunningly funny. THAT GUY could have EASILY killed lev in a punch

[@bingus1895]

@@zacktaylor8178 CLOCKED in the head

[@DavidtheRam]

In regards to the nihilism of the game: If the building shown on the new game+ screen is a different building than the rattlesnake den and is in fact the casino on Catalina Island the implications for a Part 3 (or at least DLC) may change my whole perception of the themes of the story. If the Fireflies are based in that casino (and the well-kept flags indicate upkeep) then the game ends on a very optimistic note. Ellie may still have something of a dark road ahead of her but Lev & Abby might have found home. This would give plenty of opportunities for the characters to be brought back together in a way that gives resolution for all their stories. A tease for Part 3 could be right in front of us.

[@supremeduckling5179]

Hope so...

[@synisterv7703]

Then that means Abby and the Fireflies will go after Ellie and the Wolves will be coming to kill Abby then what will the Jackson community do?!? I am so down for a DLC or a Part 3!!!

[@galilei7748]

According to Neil, Part 3 is an uncertainty: he won't make it unless he feels he can deliver on the emotional impact. However, I think that it was intended to end on an optimistic note. Ellie's ending, while sobering, I believe was intended to show catharsis (although its success leaves much to be desired)

[@d.di.daniel]

@@synisterv7703 i think the wolves don't exist anymore. They lost the war against the scars

[@Nubin2000]

@Cheese Burger To have the fireflies get a cure out of her.

[@BsERoss]

When I first got to this scene, my first impression was that it was a trap.. But the way the rattlers operate, it doesn't seem plausible they'd set a trap like that. My theory; the game has been left open for a 3rd game but may not happen for some time. Neil Druckman has said he can't see a reason yet to make a 3rd one. But with Abbey in the fireflies, maybe they'll come after Ellie and try creating that vaccine finally? It would tie up the story nicely, with the world finally finding a cure..

[@HoneyTwee]

Yeah this was my prediction for a 3rd game as a prequel just doesn't make any sense. I doubt a 3rd game would feature Abby though, her story is complete. But I could see it being about Fireflies tracking down Ellie or even Ellie trying to get to the Fireflies like the 1st game. However, if the Fireflies are in Santa Barbara and at the end of the 2nd game we didn't even get to see Ellie's journey from Jackson to Santa Barbara. Then making the 3rd game about that same trip which was just skipped over with a black screen in the 2nd game doesn't make sense. Though only focusing on the interesting bits of the trip or some complications like the first game does where the important parts are kept in and less important travelling is left out and skipped over with a season change could work. I just think a 3rd game entirely based off a trip to Santa Barbara when the 2nd game skips over it would be pointed out as dumb and to be fair rightfully so.

[@gavinpilanyane6844]

I still think the cure plot is dead. Joel did kill the only person that could've engineered it, as mentioned in the voice recording ellie found while in the hospital.

[@EnjiMC]

@@gavinpilanyane6844 It could be possible that there could be another individual or multiple individuals that can make a cure for the virus but the fireflies haven't found that one individual or individuals so they only thought that Abby's dad was the only person that knows how to make a cure. Sorry if this doesn't make any sense. It's 3:36 am, and I am pretty tired.

[@bennyfaziocriminalmastermind]

@@gavinpilanyane6844 I doubt that Jerry was the only person in the entire country that can make a vaccine

[@jolopolo4761]

I don't think the cure plot is a good idea, it make pointless the last of us 1 and 2 honestly

[@TheHawkeye0725]

I can see the fireflies actually regrouping. Even without the cure, Fedra is still one of their active enemies they want to defeat.

[@kostadim7892]

Pretty sure Fedra by part 2 fell apart

[@LordHydrik]

@@kostadim7892 They are spread around the US

[@H3YB33ZY]

I thought FEDRA is long gone, no? Maybe I missed mention of them in Part 2. That would definitely be interesting.

[@iterationfackshet1990]

R.E.M. they still have a hold but certain cities throughout the US.

[@GuitarFabi]

@@H3YB33ZY I think they just gave up their position in Seattle do to terrorist groups like WLF.

[@ARCLIGHT21]

The rattlers were the only thing that were blocking abby and lev from going to fireflies base on Catalina island and in Ellie's case they were the only obstacle in between her revenge with Abby.

[@matthewbeach2952]

Without the rattlers abbey would have gotten directly to the fireflies and Ellie would never have gotten to her then.

[@0cholopez]

Last of Us 3 Abby and Lev are sent to find Ellie by the fireflies for another attempt at the cure. Redemption story.

[@13vatra]

That was my thought too. Though personally I feel it should be years later. Like 15 or more years. And that they don't just try to snatch Ellie, instead Lev and Abby approach Ellie and say very candidly "The Fireflies regrouped and they ensure us they are able to make a cure now, all they need is someone immune, unfortunately making it will still kill you. We didn't tell them where you are, and we know how this sounds. The choice is yours." Then the main gameplay is getting back to Catalina, or wherever they happen to be. It would be interesting seeing the two interact without trying to kill each other. Oh also the main reason I want it to be 15+ years is I want JJ to either go with them or to sneak out after them and join them when turning back isn't an option.

[@abmnk3005]

Would be epic

[@rowan3299]

That's would be a massive coincidence that they’re both sent to find Ellie out of the other 200 fireflies at the island

[@JD-gh4tr]

@@13vatra I’m pretty sure after 15 years humanity would be wiped out, or quite nearly.

[@13vatra]

@@rowan3299 I didn't say it before, but I was more thinking they made sure to be the ones assigned to that mission, or even ditched the fireflies knowing they would get there well before or something.

[@Winters004]

One thing that’s always bothered me is why the Fireflies never warned Abby about the Rattlers. They should have at least had some idea of what was going on in the mainland if they were continually getting new recruits every month.

[@coraldiamond1922]

Maybe the new recruits never entered that area or atleast never encountered the Rattlers. If the Fireflies knew that the Rattlers were out there and stopping their potential new recruits from reaching them they would either try to make some deal or would have killed the Rattlers.

[@nachoman2713]

To think that the rattlers were wiped out in a single day XD

[@yanfei7782]

Literally any Fallout protagonist: Am I a joke to you?

[@sirmackavelli]

Joel ellie and tommy don't mess around when they are pissed off

[@rodrigotorres7983]

Lmao

[@anderson_abigail3322]

@@sirmackavelli unless it’s abby who is messing with them.

[@sirmackavelli]

@@anderson_abigail3322 tommy or Joel would handle her easily without her gang Joel with his strength and combat And tommy with his aim and tactical advantage

[@charlest.5742]

I think it was intentionally misleading to drive narrative ambiguity

[@lockekappa500]

This.

[@galilei7748]

I appreciate that they made the Rattlers completely irredeemable. Not only do you not feel guilty for killing them, but you unintentionally saving their victims makes Ellie more redeemable.

[@greenishpiss3588]

Nah, the Rattlers were badass, and had great taste in music.

[@Matthew-qx3dh]

Lived on LA for 8 years now and having gone to Catalina Island plenty of times the building definitely looks similar. I’m just impressed Abby and Liv make it from Santa Barbara all the way to the Catalina Islands off the coast of LA which is pretty far

[@suisinghoraceho2403]

They most likely travelled along the coast, resupply for fuel and food. It’s about 50km from Long Beach to the Casino. Sketchy but doable with their little boat.

[@victorsarmiento2194]

talk about the seraphites, and why they have scars in their faces plss

[@PaulBrown-wi9tt]

the seraphites are the scars

[@lilstrats944]

The scars are the seraphites

[@gavinpilanyane6844]

The scars serpahites the are

[@AblemanSy]

The are the serphites scars the

[@pamelalohia4300]

seraphites scars the the are

[@danieladelahoz4668]

Finding this out after ending the game gives me some relief. They made it, and it's so surprising!

[@theprowler18]

After going through it, they are just a random, separate antagonist group for us to literally kill and mutilate before we get to the actual showdown. Felt like padding but not gonna lie, it was the most inventive and fun the combat/stealth scenarios ever really got to be satisfying and cool to pull off.

[@mnhguy]

Great analysis. I was starting to believe the Rattlers were screwing with them but I've been convinced otherwise

[@MRdaBakkle]

red herrings in stories are a powerful thing.

[@schlechtgut8349]

the theme on the screen after finishing the game is insane. the pursue of detail is unbelievable

[@gluuuuue]

I think you're right, re: the shots of the buildings being clearly different structures. I think it's possible while the Fireflies do exist, the Rattlers could be monitoring the radiowaves and intercepting attempted Firefly stragglers within their own territory as a source of "strays". I *do* think nihilism plays a huge role and component in the game itself, but I also think the narrative intended to leave the tiniest glimmer of hope left, for both Abby and Ellie. Ellie's end we see portrayed in her return to the farmhouse as she seems to take stock of her personal losses, though its own subject. With Abby's fate, it seems like her punishment wasn't merely just however long she'd spent tied on the pillars waiting to die of exposure, but that, of all her 7 or 8 friends who traveled with her to help her get her personal vengeance on Joel, all of them are dead. Abby herself remains alive for her to contemplate those losses. But, both of them seem to be left alive through a critically marginal amount of mercy that occurs because of the presence of Lev. Abby stops short of murdering Dina who's pregnant only because of Lev. Ellie stops just short of killing Abby telling her to leave with Lev. I think this can be interpreted to mean that, although nihilism almost wins out in the end, there is that "candle in the darkness".

[@mister_myst]

I’d personally love to see a The Last of Us 3 just to see more of Abby and Lev in Catalina. I’d also love to find out what Ellie has been up to and to see an actual conversation without fighting Abby. Just a normal conversation about surviving and why Abby wanted to take revenge on Joel

[@thanhavictus]

TLOU3 should be Lev's story. There's more character development there. Abby and Ellie are already completed arcs

[@st4rryni1ghts]

i have a theory going that ellie is gonna join the fireflies, without knowing that abs and lev are there too. it would make sense since she doesnt live on the farm with dina anymore, and the fireflies are the literal only reason she met joel, left fedra, went to jackson and had all of these experiences. she would want to end up as a firefly.

[@kasaibouF29]

Like I said, the Rattlers's narrative purpose is to lead Ellie to Abby. After that, they are crushed in a prison uprising.

[@LogicallyKnot]

I don't believe that is the case. If you're going to be slavers, you need manpower, or else another group would crush you way before Ellie and Abby arrived. I think the Ratttlers are a very large group and I think they control that entire area. I think the headquarters is that building in Catalina.....

[@coraldiamond1922]

​@@LogicallyKnotfrom notes found during this section we know that the Rattlers are part of a large group either they are large or they are a section of a group. Not all of the Rattlers live there.

[@izzy8110]

5:00 HOW DID I NEVER NOTICE THIS ? holy shit that one little detail makes so much sense , this is why i love your TLOU videos so much . i always just hoped they made it to the catalina island but this pretty much proves it . that’s literally their boat with the island in the distance . wow , my mind is blown , great work .

[@shamzam3012]

i would have thought that the person on the other end of the mic would have atleast told abby about the rattlers, cause if the fireflies have been at that island, they would have to eventually come off the island to the mainland to look for some supplies and have run into the rattlers, you would possibly tell someone of a danger like that out there to be careful of if they are looking to come to your place.

[@LogicallyKnot]

Absolutely, theyre slavers and to be a slaver, you need manpower, or else another group would take you out. I think the Rattlers contol that entire area and I think the leader is in that building on Catalina. He was probably the man on the radio. Abby didn't make it to safety, she fell into another trap...

[@AlexGordonMusic]

I agree, Andy... I always interpreted the rattlers kidnapping Abby and Lev after the radio communication as just a coincidence. The round building at the resort, and the domed building at Catalina island? Two totally different places. I’d predict The Fireflies are still around... and the third sequel will likely have something to do with it.

[@samk4065]

It was less of an open trap and more of an opportunistic one. The Rattlers were always just in the area patrolling like the WLF and Scars, no different. It’s likely they also have comms superiority so naturally eventually hear the broadcast, and that’s why it takes a few minutes for a response.

[@RENZEENO]

Everything you said was spot on. Neil even pretty much confirmed the title screen means they made it to catalina Island and the fireflies in a podcast interview thing with Troy and others.

[@connorroberts7335]

I live 20 minutes away from Santa Barbara that looks like butterfly Beach

[@dillabean4183]

I agree, when I first played it I didn't think they were the same people. He clearly says the building is in a different place (get to Catalina Island) and then calls her "Abby from Santa Barbara" implying they are not in Santa Barbara where she is. If they were in Santa Barbara they would've said something like "Oh really? We're actually here, just come to the round building down the street" or something.

[@VideoGameSophistry]

True

[@bucketseats007]

Thank you for this video and thorough analysis. I thought it was a trick despite the time needed to get to that house address. I like how you are polite and aren’t insulting about other people’s opinions or thoughts.

[@VvV-fm5ty]

so joel, abby and ellie -almost completely wiped the fireflies -scratched the seraphites -took a little nip out of the WLF -absolutely domed the rattlers -saved the boston QZ by taking out the fireflies (atleast for a few years) -doomed david's crew by taking out their leader -secured tommy's town from WLF incursion -destroyed patient 0 damm

[@JBandMJLover4ever]

I think the fireflies are still alive. I think the menu screen at the end probably shows that Abby and Lev got to Catalina island. I just think the Rattlers were there by coincidence or probably have look outs that saw Abby and Lev walking around

[@nicoleamodio3284]

I’ve grown up around the Ventura/Santa Barbara area and am familiar with Catalina as well. I agree with your theory of the fireflies existing and the rattlers finding Abby & Lev is just the worst case of perfect timing. I was confused during my 1st play-through as well, but my 2nd go-around clarified it. Great job! Love these vids!

[@MadameCorgi]

Why didn't the fireflies warn Abby over the radio about the rattles? Surely they would have known about them

[@coraldiamond1922]

The Fireflies would have no reason to know about the Rattlers.

[@XavierValentine]

Nice very nice , I feel like the thing that let the rattlers know they were in the house was when Abby turned the power on to the house and the change of screens was a great touch im hoping for a part 3 and hope everyone else does too

[@SilverShadow1617]

Can I just mention, Idk why people are giving the story of the game so much shit. Just because they feel Ellie's journey is pointless because she lets Abby go? Um news flash The journey of TLOU 1 was pointless too because Joel Slaughtered the fireflies and stopped the cure. Joel did it to save Ellie, Ellie spared Abby to because she didn't wanna follow the cycle of revenge anymore. Yeah its a bummer she loses so much in the process but it doesn't make the game trash. Sorry just ranting. Great vid btw.

[@gabrielemblem605]

How did you end the cycle of revenge? You kill hundreds of people to get Abby, any relative of them could come in part 3 and get revenge against Elly (or Abby). I hate how the Abby got her revenge but was in the end rewarded with Lev by her side and a new home where she can start again, meanwhile Ellie made "the right decision" but she loses everything she had: She lost Dina and the baby, Tommy now hates her, lost her fingers and any remnant of a home she could have. Drunkman took as his personal mision to destroy and make suffer all the characters of part 1 but casually forgot of his nihilistic aproach when he was writing Abby' ending. I call bullshit, Abby could burn Jackson to the ground and still get her happy ending because that "we have to empathise with her" shit

[@zocialix]

​@@gabrielemblem605 Oh yeah Abby was really rewarded seeing everyone whom she ever cared about outside of Lev killed as a result of said vengeance. You should stick to football lad. Also made: 'the right decision' by leaving Dina and the home/family they'd built together to selfishly kill Abby? Also I'm certain Dina takes Ellie back considering when Ellie goes off on her trip she's not seen wearing Dina's bracelet whereas when she's at the house she was. It'd seem Dina moved back to Jacksonville and Ellie went over there put on Joel's clothes then back to the farm to pick up some things. Furthermore Abby wasn't even selfish enough to take away Tommy or Dina from Ellie and at the end she's clearly moved on. Interested in regrouping with whatever's left of the Fireflies. I'm expecting eventually in Part III Ellie consensually turns herself over to the Fireflies and they finally get to finish what they started.

[@majorinfinitezero]

I don't think so because in one of the buildings there was a rattler graffiti tag, and if it was all a trap, they wouldn't want to make their presence known in the area with evidence. Maybe that's why the fireflies left because of the Rattlers.

[@wendellswendell2001]

I absolutely love the kind of discussions this great game has produced among my fellow Stations fans. I'm in love with this game.

[@austinroguelike]

First of all, I have been loving these videos after finishing the game. Thanks for helping to fill in some details that I missed while playing. I’m familiar with Catalina island. The casino is the most recognizable building on the island and I completely agree with your thoughts. I do not believe that the person on the radio was a rattler, but was indeed a firefly. It makes sense that they would tell Abby and Lev to head to the casino, as it would be visible from the ocean and would let Abby know where to dock. To me, the main menu change after completing the game is the confirmation that Abby and Lev successfully made it safely to the island and regrouped with the surviving fireflies.

[@DoctorDogma]

Catalina island is 100miles off the coast of Santa Barbara. That's a 4-5 hour boat trip

[@ThatFont]

It’s very likely that the guy Abby traded a gun with for the information may have been leading her into a trap, and didn’t expect for her to actually come into contact with them. Like a half-truth, because it was an outpost at one point. The trader would likely also know of the Rattlers and didn’t warn her.

[@rudymartinez898]

Glad I wasn’t the only one thinking about Step Brothers when playing this lmaoo

[@gsa509]

So I assume part 3 will just be the fireflies wanting to capture Ellie for the cure since Abby knows about her immunity?

[@deez6102]

You hate the game yet you cover the lore, thank you for that 🙏

[@theflashgordon193]

I don't think he hate it completly. he probably have issue with the story execution

[@44jayblaze]

They don't hate game 😂 they're obsessed with it plain and simple 😂 facts

[@twoworldwars4633]

I’ve been to Catalina with my family a bunch and would always go to the rock beach on the other side. It’s so cool that it’s even in a game and that I’ve been there!

[@hamadahmed5415]

That’s tyr temple not tall round building

[@lockekappa500]

It's possible there was a reason for the two having similar descriptions. Maybe both Abby and ellie's journey ended at a tall round building, just different ones.

[@aurumone_exe]

underrated

[@hardtailharry6812]

What came to my mind is that the rattlers seemed to turn up pretty quick to abbys location directly after her radio conversation almost Asif if it was them on the other side, which led me to believe that it was almost a setup, whoever gave her the tip that she traded her pistol for.. So whoever gave her that tip is probably working with the rattlers?

[@msfox103able]

I just beat the last of us part 2 yesterday for the first time. I wanted to ask you guys some questions I had while playing this game. I know Joel died for killing Abby's dad, but Joel saved Abby's life. Couldn't Joel told her friends that Abby would be dead if he and Tommy didn't save her ? I was upset with Tommy for giving Ellie a guilt trip because she didn't want to go. She is suffering from PTSD. I know for me I suffer from PTSD my dad was evil he tried to murder me. He forced me to watch he almost slit my mom's throat Infront of me. I was 6 yrs old at that time. I know I try to avoid any triggers. I saw Ellie was suffering from PTSD as well. Ellie could have died because of Tommy's guilt trip. He destroyed Ellie and Dina's happy life at their farmhouse. Tommy should have let it go. She already killed Abby's friends. Could you guys explain this to me? I just want to understand this a little better. Thank you :)

[@-kove-4446]

In my oponion everyone was still processing thier grief and they felt like they hadn't gotten thier revenge properly because Abby was still alive but Jesse was dead and Tommy was injured. It may have not been the right call but people do stupid stuff when dealing with greif and anger. Also I felt the trip was a little therapeutic for Ellie it was like she was facing her fears to go fight Ellie

[@edwilly1]

Also, I think it’s deeper. Tommy was shot by Abby at the theater but obviously didn’t kill him. This could imply it messed up Tommy really badly mentally so the outburst he had at Dina / Ellie’s ranch could mean it wasn’t totally Tommy. Tommy was always the calm one between Joel and him, so I feel like that could also be part of it

[@kcthecloudmaster]

“Fucking Catalina wine mixer” is my only experience with Catalina too dude lmao

[@KC.665]

I feel like it make sense that the rattlers main base is off the coast on the island, but with other small bases on the coast to catch survivors and what not

[@krcjayhawks]

There were a lot of space references. Is there anything airport/runway/launch site anywhere in this area? Exact same problem for me - all I know about is the f*ckin Catalina Wine Mixer

[@krcjayhawks]

So apparently around 2010 there were a couple missle launches or controversial military tests or something - right around Catalina Island. That'd be crazy if there was a group organized enough to get off the planet or something similar. Who knows where or why...but I'd be cool with it!

[@owenzhub]

I don't think it's poor narrative design. I think it was designed for the player to question whether or not this was a trap. If it had been a trap, they would have simply directed them to the rattler compound and not some other location like Catalina Island. The player is supposed to be confused because of the rattler's description of the building where Abby is being held. But since Santa Barbara is not Catalina Island, astute players should be questioning this the entire time. The ending screen finally gives us confirmation because it is in fact the Avalon at Catalina Island, suggesting Abby and Lev made it there. Only curious players who want to know the answer will take the time to look this up though.

[@VideoGameSophistry]

That’s just bad story telling

[@abbas6075]

So lev ans the shehulk went free for their new home but ellie is alone in a haunted almost broken farm house , lmao wow

[@ashleydortch2445]

The rattlers should had been the main villains

[@Blitzo2876]

I agree! The WLF are a bunch of idiots with dogs and the scars are annoying with their whistles.

[@ludo4034]

@@Blitzo2876 I think they didn't developed the Scars enough.

[@MrMuaythai84]

rattlers were not in seattle

[@colmduggan8230]

Exactly killing slavers i loved every second of it

[@lilwelfarecheck3626]

Huang Chung Chuan the whistles is how they communicate, it’s a effective way as well, you don’t know what there saying, and it make sense, many more primitive civilizations like natives in South American mountains used whistling

[@Ben4Real]

This is so obviously not a trap. If it was the Rattlers trying to trick them, why would they tell them to go somewhere completely different? No, they would say, "We're holed up at the resort at the end of the railroad tracks."

[@khmerbraveheart]

Finally someone gets it. Actually most people who assume these Bullshit are people who didn't even play the game. They hate on it and yap about like HOW THEY know the game.

[@Firekeyez32]

....did you miss the video from this guy saying how this game is an absolute failure in storytelling? lmao

[@mynameismark25]

Can't agree more with you man. I don't get why everything has to be so black and white rn. People saying it's either amazing or terrible. What's wrong with sitting on the fence and exploring a little more. I do think most gamers voted down the game as soon as Joel died though.

[@khmerbraveheart]

@@mynameismark25 I know right? And Joel killing the Fireflies are nothing but Karma that came back to him. But if you think about it. They was trying to kill Joel first, so that's why I don't believe the Fireflies were good people. That's why Joel decided to kill them all. For that reason, I don't know who to blame. But the way they made him look stupid did triggered me a little. hahaha

[@mynameismark25]

@@khmerbraveheart stupid as in you can't believe he trusted Abby? If so, the reason that happened was because of Ellie. Him and Ellie weren't talking because Joel was too brutal and killed them all to save her, in his old age I believe he was consciously trying to be softer and trust people more because of how Ellie was treating him after she found out he lied. So many layers to the story its great.

[@foreverkingsteez4796]

@@mynameismark25 Not because he died...how he died It was rushed, lazy and made ZERO sense, all for shock value. Also we down play it because it has fuckall to do with the first game, If these lou2 fan boys have ever even played it. So basically they kill Joel in the first 2 hours of the game. THE MAIN CHARACTER OF THE FIRST GAME WHO SHOULD BE THE SUPPORTING CHARACTER IN THIS GAME. HE WAS IN EVERY SINGLE TRAILER THEU PUT OUT AND WE PLAY 40 FUCKING MINUTES OF HIM??? they used the love we had for Joel and Ellie to trick us into thinking they would have another amazing journey but noooooo they push this stupid message of revenge that's is just horrible writing with characters no one gives a fuck about and expect us to feel sympathy towards them? For what this game could have to been to what it is are worlds apart, no fuck that they are universes apart.

[@saffylaurio2556]

Other people have probably confirmed it, but I live on California mainland right by Catalina island -- you could see the island from my elementary school on clear days. I knew immediately that they were talking about the casino when a dome building on Catalina was mentioned. And I knew immediately that the domed building we were shown was not the casino. The area around it is just not what Catalina looks like at all.

[@daf5162]

This voiceover must be the "Sandlot" Narrator

[@dylpkl7573]

Wow i didn’t even realize that the ending where the boat is on the beach in front of the building is Catalina island not just the rattlers base. I think we have a good idea what the next game will be about

[@abigailslade3824]

The biggest flaw that Santa Barbara highlights is why are the Rattlers the only ones who use body armour I would loot it from the first body I found with it personally.

[@ecfeclipse]

We need a Last of Us 3. to follow up on Abby and Lev's story to see where the fireflys are, see Ellie go back to jackson and confront Dina and see JJ grown up a bit, then Ellie somehow gets back involved with Abby and the fireflies and they find a doctor that studied under Abby's father. He has the power to make a vaccine, Ellie willingly makes the choice to sacrifice herself like she wanted to, completing Abby's father's legacy and saving Mankind.

[@horncrownedproductions9675]

Gross. A happy ending?

[@jovansosa]

I don't think it was that confusing considering that while the dialogue may have sounded similar, the description of the buildings are in fact different, purely in the sense of one key detail. The firefly operator mentions that their building is domed, not just round. The rattler den is not a domed building, given it's 2 tier style roof. Other than the fact that they are on Catalina Island, and that Neil confirmed that they made it, I think the distinction was clear enough.

[@little_sadie]

the location on the last of us 2 menu is catalina island, the address that the fireflies told abby, which means they got it, in fact I don't think they would play such an emotional song for nothing, "chasing a rumor" (which is also a phrase said by Abby to Owen when mentioning the fireflies)

[@little_sadie]

plus when ellie goes to the hospital and discovers the truth, there is a note from a firefly saying that he won't give up on fireflies...

[@INCEPTION0071]

I live in Los Angeles and have been to Catalina island many times. The ending menu screen is Catalina island. The one thing that dose not make sense is that. Santa Barbara is a 1 hour and 30min drive with no traffic from Los Angeles to Santa Barbara. There is absolutely no way abbey and lev could have made it to Catalina island from Santa Barbara in that kind of boat with out running out of gas and being stranded. I’m pretty sure that there aren’t any fairies that depart from Santa Barbara to Catalina. They only depart from Long Beach, San Pedro and Dana Point. Dana Point is near San Diego. San Pedro and Long Beach are next to each other and there both apart of Los Angeles County. It takes an hour on the Catalina Express to get to the island from San Pedro or Long Beach.

[@arodriguez8762]

Maybe they finally wash up on shore after a day or two with the ocean's current or they're found by fireflies in the ocean 🤔

[@INCEPTION0071]

Andres Rodriguez possible

[@blackredJazz]

Okay this one is good. Good observations to details there. I didn't notice that the start screen was actually Catalina island, I thought it was still the Rattlers resort! Buildings looked so close to each other, nice work man!

[@davids2cents594]

the big give away that the fireflys are real is the little quiz they give her

[@dannyandtessa]

“It’s the fuckin’ Catalina Wine Mixer!!” 🗣️‼️‼️

[@miamor5929]

My prediction if there is a part 3: A) Part 3 would reference the first game, as this game story was disappointing B) More likely some some WLF members would take revenge on Abby C) Lev becomes Part 3 , Probably Ellie and Abby dies, Maybe Lev goes inland to look after Ellie mrs child and becomes the Father figure like Joel

[@userjoao]

people have this stupid notion that abby’s gonna be on part iii. Sorry, that is not happening. Abby only exists as a figment of Ellie’s revenge arc and as a consequence of Joel’s choices. She can’t exist on her own because of that, and there’s no possible way the writers could reconciliate both these traumatized girls, both because they hate each other, and because having them both would cause a rehash of part II dual perspective story, which was EXCLUSIVE for part II’s storytelling. This makes Ellie the sole and most likely protagonist next game.

[@shinra94]

One of the biggest problems with rise of skywalker is walking back all of the things that happened in last jedi. If you think this story is disappointing, it's just much better to stick with the decisions made in this game than make a jarring shift to where you ignore the 2nd one

[@Spyder7223]

I wonder if Owen and Mel would've fallen victim to the rattlers the same way as Abby, personally I would've loved to see both of them live while Abby dies trying to save Lev from the serephite island. Then have last us 3 focus on Owen, Mel, Lev, or Mel's kid. Overall awesome game!

[@michaelbuick6995]

My theory is that this was pure opportunism by the Rattlers, not an elaborate trap. It's not unreasonable that they'd have hand held radios or walkie talkies so they pick up Abby broadcasting, on a whim decide to play along to get her to give up a location. She gives them an exact address which is within walkie talkie range which is close enough that 2 minutes is long enough for the rattlers to get in position to ambush them.

[@juliomcastaneda]

That building on Avalon is well known to any southern California. I'm not sure about the building in Santa Barbara.

[@BRISKLYHIDDEN]

Your theory was exactly mine, I had a long debate with a lot of friends that fireflies are or aren't in fact the rattlers | Good Job doing the analysis, man

[@ryusaranyawut7913]

Maybe in part 3. Ellie went to find Abby again as she has lost everything and wanted to give her life to make the cure again. Maybe the Rattlers will returned to get their revenge as we have not seem the *LEADER* of the Rattlers yet ( I don't think we have ) - The Rattlers want revenge but find out about the cure which they want to destroy or keep for themself. - Fireflies gose to war with the Rattlers. - Ellie caught in the middle of the war while trying to find Abby and the Fireflies. - The victor is Fireflies. - Before Ellie died, Abby expressed that she's wrong to get revenge and kill Joel in the past. Abby also realize that her father would have done the same for her if Abby was the one whose immune. - Ellie looks with saddness, she wanted to forgive Abby as she know that what Joel did in the past is wrong. But she can't. - Abby looks at Lev and the firefiles. She see her father spirit. She took a deep long breath, look at dying Ellie and say softly '' Hope you find him '' - Ellie passed away. - Abby successfully crafted the sample of the cure. - In the end, we see Dina reading letter from Ellie, saying that she's a no body. She lost everything included herself. Expressing that revenge game is stupid and senseless. Ellie say that she will find the firefiles with Abby again. But this time is different, she not there to kill them but to give her life to them to make a cure. - Dina cry as she read the last two sentence '' You won't see me again. After I leave, I will be joining him; to be with him again - LOVE Ellie '' - '' Him '' is referring to Joel. The End!

[@ww-zb7qn]

No

[@Blackoah]

No

[@xxd3nraxx740]

Well yes but actually no

[@xleftsidex1627]

4:46 - damn, never thought about what this menu screen actually represents, even after finishing the game 2 times. That's really intriguing

[@y2kproblem643]

The fireflies are alive. When Abby told the guy on the radio he was amazed because she was from salt lake, besides, her dad was the leader of that group. The firefly knew her father. So yes, the hint was real...

[@royal_vita5329]

Of course there is going to be a part 3. Considering part 1, they always said "believe in the fireflies". No way they would just forget about them by the ending of part 2, of course they're real. They were separated not all killed.

[@semirasani2240]

the rattlers 100% intercepted that radio message and catalina island did in fact have the fireflies. this is where the last of us 3 should kick off. Abby is one of the only living people on earth that knows about ellies immunity. its possible someone else there was at salt lake hospital who also knows and after finding out abby has been in contact and knows where ellie lives, a portion if not all of the other fireflies there might try to go to jackson to grab ellie in their haste to find a cure(assuming someone besides abbys dad does in fact know how to make a cure), but abby may start to feel guilt at that thought and who knows what would happen from there, another rivalry against ellie or side with her where the two start to eventually talk about their pasts and come to a personal acceptance. idk, all i know is tlou3 anywhere between 2023-2028, ill be waiting

[@ashleydortch2445]

You got one very smooth voice.

[@ichangedmyusernamebecausei2551]

I think it would’ve been better imo if the “firefly” from the radio said their motto before ending the conversation which could’ve verified that he’s an actual one.

[@clarar2547]

I think why people get confused is the similar architecture style that is known throughout the area, which is think is a mixture of Spanish mission and Mediterranean.

[@skeletonking4119]

5:48 Correct!! The developers has made a poor decisions ..

[@CrusardModding]

You has mistake in you're comments

[@SKOMEpocets]

get a girlfriend

[@jaedude]

@@CrusardModding You have "you're" in YOUR comment.

[@soggybiscuito1505]

In all honesty, it isn't a bad game. I thought it was but I've changed my mind about it. Say what you want about the plot, the performances were fantastic and it's a pretty ambitious game.

[@CrusardModding]

@@jaedude You has not understanded the massage of me commentary

[@jeffbrown9523]

Long story short if there is Fireflies on Catalina Island and is a set up for Part 3, I can see that Abby needs to find Ellie bc they have a doctor that can make the vaccine that was talked about in Part 1 and it would tie everything up including Ellie's life and her immunity "meaning something" because of all those that died for her in her life.

[@potato_duud6166]

I feel like ellie wouldn’t want to give up her life now because of what joel said to her about how he wouldn’t change what happened even if he could so that could setup a story where ellie and abby are against each other again

[@jcage1022]

I think the fireflies are alive, because you're right. It just doesn't make sense for them to make the call, be told exactly where to go, and then 2 minutes later get jumped. Nah, the fireflies are alive, simply bc it's more interesting that way.

[@BertM3]

This. If the theory that they were on the radio with the Rattlers were true, they would have told her to wait right there. Easy catch trapped in a basement.

[@connordrake5713]

This is really what I think when I watch the scene about Rattlers attacking Abby at 2425 Constance. The way the first man attack Abby is very surprising since they already knew Abby was there. So I suspect that those Frequencies they get was indeed a trick??? But after I watch this video, it feels clear to me now. It's really the Fireflies who contact them. 😱 I bet the part III will be about the resurrection of Fireflies out of the ashes and it's very interesting to see.

[@joshagee8251]

No because when you finish the game and go to the main menu, it shows a beached boat leading to a dome shaped building, implying that lev and Abby had found the building on catalina island.

[@mike954]

I live across from Catalina and have taken several trips using the Catalina Express. Although you can't see it from the main land (because of the curvature of the Earth) the building in the start menu IS the casino in Avalon. Even though I have not been to Santa Barbara, the dome building Ellie fights in is NOT the same as the casino building on Catalina. On a side note, I don't think Abby & Lev could have made it in a straight shot from Santa Barbara to Catalina in the boat they took off in. They would have had to make refueling stops along the way sticking close to the shore. Including San Pedro, it's got a decent sized marina, and maybe Fireflies are stationed at the marine traffic control or possibly the radio domes on top of P.V. Hills. That's my theory any way.

[@jamison74]

“It’s the fukin Catalina wine mixer!” What if Abby and Liv went through all that just to go to a wine mixer. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@slayer1play]

I have been to Avalon and the Casino there (it's an old theater that holds live performances, as well as silent movies to modern movies, it's called a Casino because it's the Italian word for Theater) and from what I'm able to tell, it IS the same building as the title screen as the actual building too is built overlooking the water. Besides, with Catalina Island being between a.1.5 hour - 2 hour boat ride from Los Angeles (and that's with the boats they have today) it would seem to be the beat place for the Fireflies to rebuild. Its isolate, mountainous, and would be an easy area to defend having only 2 major ports in Avalon and Two Harbors

[@bimbo438]

I loved this game, I live in Seattle and its fucking awesome to see it in a messed up way

[@Brandonian]

I wonder if VGS ever got down to making the video behind Isaac’s climb to the leadership role of the WLF. A video in the Scares would be really cool too. I hope the remaster that’s coming out in January has more information on the rattlers. I kinda hope that part gets extended, or maybe some added story. There’s son talk about a Part III too.

[@VideoGameSophistry]

Gonna make it in January

[@Brandonian]

@@VideoGameSophistryoh nice! Dope, I’m kinda dreading the remake. This is a great game. I liked it. But the biggest turn off is how freaking long this game is. I also hope they extend the Santa Barbara/Rattlers screen time. There was a lot of unanswered questions and it felt rushed and short. Looking forward to those videos Mr. VGS! You make good TLOF material.

[@isaaclopez-gf9zk]

The tall round building is in Avalon, Catalina island, where she is imprisoned is still in Santa Barbara, 2 different places, convenient buildings