Are There Miniature Painting Rules? | S1E21

[@trappedunderplastic]

Sorry about the audio mixing. The audio version on www.trappedunderplastic.com has been fixed, but it'll take too long to re-export and re-upload the video version, so it's gonna stay broken. Sorry again!!

[@theviper5952]

I have the sadness

[@psaldorn69]

That link doesn't work, looks like you need to set a DNS record for trappedunderplastic.com (as opposed to www.trappedunderplastic.com, which does work) Also: good job getting me to visit your website.. bad audio is a nice trick! :D

[@trappedunderplastic]

@@psaldorn69 hey now, let's distinguish between bad audio, and "I forgot to export the final video as mono" audio

[@psaldorn69]

@@trappedunderplastic No judgements!

[@notronsivart]

I'm using the audio from the website and video from youtube. FIXED

[@JDawgg1975]

When I first started painting minis about 3 years ago now, I watched a few KZbin videos and learned the "rules". I vividly remember looking up a technique, don't remember which one, and came across one of your videos, and you painted out of order from the videos I was watching at the time. My initial reaction was that since you didn't go by what the first few people I watched did, you didn't know what you where doing, so I didn't watch anymore. A short time later, I discovered the mini painting community on Instagram and realized that everything I had learned about mini painting was wrong. Then I decided to watch the video the two of you did on starter paint sets, and I became hooked on your channel. Channels like yours, Uncle Atom's, Squidmar, Midwinter Minis, Goobertown, those really help painters grow. You give guidelines, suggestions, but encourage people to try to find what looks for them. I've learned there are no rules, only techniques and how you apply them is up to you. Thanks for that.

[@maph12]

Mmmmm my right ear is feeling looooonely.

[@BeyondtheRecord]

that panning is driving me insane 😂😂😂😂

[@claytonleal7947]

i am glad you commented. now i dont have to worry i am going insane

[@mikevisser563]

Thought my speakers were dying again on one channel.

[@Duane-91]

​@@mikevisser563 Same xD did a "spontaneous panic spotify shufle" to test if the right side speaker wasn't broken

[@joeldude1998]

I usually use one wireless earbud in my right ear, and I was so confused not being able to hear them until I switched to my left ear bud.

[@walksamong]

My tattoo artist taught me a valuable lesson. "Once you know the rules of a medium, then you know which ones you can bend and which ones you can break." This has helped me a ton in my mini painting.

[@Boldenone17]

this is ace mate

[@trolleymouse]

A better way to look at the "rules" is, rather than thinking of them all as "do this, not this" that exists to limit creativity, look at them more as "This is how you get this effect" lessons to draw from the wealth of knowledge of those that came before. Not "always prime your models", but "priming keeps the paint from coming off as much if you manhandle your models". Not "don't highlight red with white", but "highlighting red with white will read as pink". Not "don't work with finecast", but ... no actually, that one is a rule.

[@pkawesome6230]

#failcast

[@OscarDataTech]

"You saw last night my tiny tiny brush" - After a heavy party during a hard hangover... perfect 🤣🤣🤣

[@nlnrose]

As someone who came from more traditional art, I think many underestimate the value of rules. The point of rules is so you know how to get a good result. When you understand then how to work with the rules and why they're there, that's when you will be able to break them in the most interesting ways. It's not until advanced classes that art becomes more abstract.

[@KrippledKracka]

YES!! Thank you Scott! You nailed it. I do NOT know what to think or have an inner voice, for that very reason. Not enough experience to know what direction to go for an improvement. The challenge is the "What" to improve upon or "How" to get there. For instance, I know in a previous episode you mentioned when you gave your classes, that you had to go around and set up individuals Wet Palette. I STILL wish you had a detailed step-by-step vid on setting up my wet palette and how it should look, or provide an example of what is wrong. Like for instance, should I still be able to see water on top of the paper, or do the wrinkles matter? etc. etc.

[@finkmonkeyful]

I dig the idea of a video showing someone painting for the first time and you chat with them about the process and what not.

[@Vanye111]

Finished several KDM miniatures in the last 3 weeks. Felt good.

[@jamieking9506]

I would love to watch a video of you moding your display case!

[@gfyracing7632]

I recently found this channel and have see 4 videos in the last 5 days. Thanks for the great videos and keep up the great work.

[@Taytorthot]

Y'all should really promote this more on your own channels! I never knew about this!!! And it's such a good background while painting.

[@tando6266]

I love @MarcoFrisoniNJM for how loose he is. He is as close to a 'real' painter who paints mini's as I can find while still being approachable/

[@dvalvo7725]

One of my absolute favorite art teachers, Sean Connor at Academy of Art University (he was the BEST at anatomy) used to say all the time that "You need to understand anatomy before you can stylize it." It holds true with traditional art form as well as mini painting. The rules are important to understand!

[@sammarvel8]

I think that mini painting is has more rules because miniature painting involves 3D art and the way color interacts with the world. When you have most mediums of art interacting with more obscure and less bound by nature effects. With mini painting we are trying to pull the real world into something scaled down but still in a dimension we are bound by!

[@dravendino]

I know I already commented but I'm having to watch the video in segments. I'm a geology major with no real artistic experience but I love painting minis. My girlfriend is an art student in graphic design and it was so insane watching her paint her first mini and it was better than anything i painted in the past 6 months. I think you guys should try the video idea with different people and rules

[@davetrack2950]

Nice trick to getting us to listen to both the audio podcast and watch the video. We see you gaming the system.

[@Winterydee]

Best paint stripper I've ever heard of is LA's Totally Awesome. Also Brent of Goobertown Hobbies has a video where he did a test of multiple hobby community recommend paint strippers. You guys should check it out. I think it's one of his first videos he ever did for his channel.

[@peterkatelaan9330]

I totally expected a puke break or a nap in between... I would also request that this episode shall be named "Are there Miniature Painting Rules? Hangover talk with Jon & Scott. | S1E21 I kind of want to see the drunken Mini Painting video now :-P

[@RieksVisser]

In martial arts they have the progression concept of Shu Ha Ri. It's borrowed in many fields. Shu: follow the rules. Ha: understand the rules and principles behind it. Ri: become the rule / break the rule. Related is the comfort-stretch-panic model of learning. When you're too comfortable or panicking, you can't learn. You need the sweet spot in the middle. Last one: Dreyfuss model combines these two somewhat. Five levels of proficiency and the associated style of learning and following instructions vs autonomy. Thank you for attending my TED talk.

[@JoyousKn1ght]

Oh man, my left hand has also been numb and tingly for a week after painting with my arms on my table for hours...dang

[@justinmarsh9802]

I've heard that graffiti cleaner works really well. but i really would love to know of a way to remove the excess primer that i painted on some of my minis because its the only thing thats stopping me from fully painting my vanguard units.

[@MrSkullface]

You gotta know the rules before you can break them. Those that dont follow fundamental rules can often times learn the wrong way and once the wrong way solidifies in your head it will take forever to unlearn and relearn the correct ways.

[@bryal7811]

Another analogy to rules is learning another language. There are tons of rules and finer points are very difficult to master. You pick some words you like, repeat them and move on to sentence structure. Eventually you can speak simple sentences and that's perfect for say, just travelling. It's when you start to really dive into things like accents, slang region dialects etc. that things really start to open up. While knowing how to build a proper sentence is important, there's no "correct" way to say it, just loads of different ways that are all viable. Also, 15:30 Not a garbage video idea, a perfect opportunity to pair up with Jeremy!

[@newgamer85]

In the UK we have fairy power spray. Works well easy strip to 95% MARK. But yeah you going to have to get ye old toothbrush in the arm pits.

[@gaijin_lfc]

The rules are really important, like you said John. They would have disappeared if they weren’t useful. They become rules because people have learned they provide a reliable basis for your painting process. Learning the rules will help you improve so much quicker than trying it on your own and just putting in hours blindly. But you also need to know that the rules can and should be broken. Don’t use black/white? Look at Ben Komets, he constantly uses pure black and white in his mixes. Thin your paints? Sergio Calvo paints with extremely thick layers. For every rule, there are examples of where you can break it, and that’s where you dive into the ocean, and learn for yourself when to break them and what rules you like to break. However, if you spend some time in the swimming pool, you’ll be ready a hell of a lot sooner for the ocean. In fact, spend a long time in there, just don’t be afraid to get into the ocean when you know in your heart the time as come. The only true hard and fast rule IMO is that you paint for yourself and for your own enjoyment.

[@Cosmic_Gruuv]

For anyone wondering, Lucas Pina Penichet (aka Spira Mirabilis) shows a new sculpt in their website! Looks to be a pair of gobbers on some squigg looking thing? All it says is SOON, so keep checking it daily for the chance. Definitely gonna try to pick one up.

[@eingames9931]

You can paint with oils now. Back when I first started the pigments were not ground fine enough in oil paint. P.S. nice shirt John!

[@reesesminiatures9332]

Rules allow you to build fundamental understanding to then establish a more informed practice.

[@loganlough6510]

I use something called purple power in an ultra sonic cleaner and it works better than any other way I've stripped minis. But it does tend to leave a small residue so there's always extra clean up afterwards

[@-kratos-1526]

Great podcast as always. For the topic you guys discuss today. The initial question tries to compare the product guidelines and best practices we use for miniature painting.(AKA rules) and tries to compare it to the artistic vision someone used when creating a work of art from nothing in another medium. In my opinion those are not the same and can’t be compared. All art has rules for the actual medium you’re using, and how to work with it. All art has resources that help you achieve certain techniques and offer best practices based on experience. I think miniature paintings seems more restrictive because were taking someone’s artwork that’s already been created and trying to create on top of it. My thought is as we see more artists design, 3-D print, and paint their own miniature we will start to see the same level of freedom and abstract work that we see in other forms of art.

[@arodreth]

AWW YISSS! this has become my fav podcast, I cant go for long without MUH MEAT AND POTATOES

[@phileast1654]

I am still in the pool but ok with it as i feel i need to get better at basic stuff like brush control, paint thinning, composition etc i think it can be a good thing to keep things simple whilst learning and improving the basics before jumping into the ocean.

[@jonathanbaker5037]

Another vote for LA's Totally Awesome. It's cheap, and readily available at dollar stores. You can safely leave plastic in it for as long as you want, and I've never had to do more than two dips to get completely clean.

[@JD-td8kl]

Y'all should promote this a bit more on your other respective channels. Good listen! Cheers.

[@vinniebarkworth3420]

oil based coloured pencils for edge highlighting !!!! much easier than a brush

[@leary_93]

So in the UK we have Dettol (disinfectant cleaner) if you use it NEAT it is great for stripping plastic and resin, I used it in an ultrasonic cleaner to strip an Imperial Fists resin dreadnought and it works a treat, the trick is to never mix with water, if you do it forms into a gloopy mix and you’ll never get it off, use it neat and scrub well, once completely dry you can use soapy water to clean the model for priming, not sure if you can get Dettol in the states but there should be an equivalent?

[@adfdasdfadfadsfareae]

Acetone is super flammable. Never run anything flammable in an ultra-sonic cleaner.

[@emilymegan40]

Oh boy when he said he put it in there I thought the story was going to end in fire! Glad Miniac and fam are ok!

[@Ranca666]

My 2 favorite solutions for stripping plastic minis are biostrip 20 and dettol disinfectant. Both come with some cons, but they strip paint from plastic like anything else i tried. Dettol will make your room smell like a retirement home, it's awful, but it's very liquid and it works great in an ultrasonic cleaner, make it run for 10 minutes, then a quick pass with a toothbrush and you'r set. Biostrip 20 is way more powerful, it dissolves acrylic paint pretty much on contact, and has the consistency of thick paint so you can apply it with an old brush, but you have to be careful while stripping resing figures, if you leave it on too much it will soften the surface and you risk melting away some detail.

[@Cewheatley]

I’m gonna be that guy. Super clean and the ultrasonic works 100% every time.

[@jameskyle7943]

One aspect of the "rules" I was surprised you guys didn't mention was due to the beginnings of miniature painting being very centered on wargaming, not art. The idea was to be as historically accurate as possible, so you have to use the exact right shade of green on those pants or its not "correct". You're re-enacting the Battle of the Bulge but they didn't start wearing that shade of green until 1947.

[@gaborboth3602]

Even as someone more artistically inclined, I appreciate all those colors on the rack, in case I want to make it consistent all along an army.

[@elvenfox7261]

I highlight red with white all the time. Granted i put white and glaze over with red but it makes a super bright red with no hint of pink

[@apocalypticmoth6040]

If you left your model in the cleaner long enough for the plastic to solidify, that character would be literally trapped under plastic

[@JoCocomo]

Personally about the drybrush "rule": I'm still very much a noob when it comes to painting. I don't really do highlights because I've never really ventured out that way aside from one or two models and because I don't really have any models I can practice on. I only really started drybrushing when it came to doing bases for my Infinity models because I wanted to try and do something uniform yet different (I play Ariadna and I have models from each of the different sectorials), so I started drybrushing. I then tried drybrushing over my vehicles after seeing a video on painting vehicles and expanded it to include drybrushing my Guardsmen, and it's grown since then. It's probably a very noob thing to do, but I enjoy the dusty effect it brings. I like my guys to look dirty and worn, and to me drybrushing my models not only brings out the details but also gives me that effect I'm looking for

[@dances4980]

I thought I would compile a list of the "Rules" mentioned (some paraphrasing.) 1. Rules may be broken , they are more of a set of guidelines than laws. 2. You will be judged harshly, and shunned online for failing to abide by these rules! 3. base coat , wash, layer, layer, layer. 4. Prime, Zenithal , reinforce highlights and shadows 5. you cant highlight red with white 6. You have to paint with acrylic paint. 7. Use a brush 8. Use a wet pallate 9. Thin your paints. 10. wear a mask while airbrushing 11. Wear gloves while airbrushing 12. You cannot rattlecan unless you rolled ideal weather conditions from appendix F or you turn into a werewolf 13. You cannot mix highlights with white. 14. Drybrush is a noob technique 15. Realism is superior to any other way you might choose to paint.

[@santiagolozoya4940]

Haha suck it angry redditors, I use oils!

[@tando6266]

To add to the pool analysis though there is something you missd @51:12. You have this ocean, and some people are saying come join us, but then there are these others who are in the ocean, who make videos about the pool, telling you look I spoke with the pool guy, he really wants you to use his new contrast *cough* I mean flotation device, and hes paying me to say this, but I swear I am not being biased, but stay in the pool, its quicker and look, the results are the same as in the ocean anyway. I cant blame the guy who paid his dues and is in the ocean, he just wants to get paid, and I cant blame the pool kid, he just wants to swim, so the question (after all that ramble) is it ok for the people in the ocean, to try and keep people in the pool because making that content gets them the most $$?

[@Richard-sy1ej]

As someone who has only been painting for about a year, I think you guys don't actually realize how difficult it can be for newer painters to identify what is wrong with their mini. I can look at one of my minis and identify things like: there isn't enough definition on individual elements, my highlights aren't "right", my colors look "wrong", or "it looks fake", or other non-specific things of "it looks not right". Being able to identify specifically WHAT or HOW something is wrong is still beyond my abilities as a painter as some points, and I certainly don't know the techniques or possess the skills to implement those techniques to get a model looking like amazing pieces you can see from other people online. The technical skills of being able to paint are essential to creating "good looking" miniatures, and those technical skills appear somewhat harder than other classical artforms simply because of the scale of the canvas. Every stroke and application of paint feels much more important, because every stuff-up potentially takes away from the detail of the canvas that the artform relies upon. The "rules" are extremely valuable to help push those technical skills of how to paint something to make it look better. I've done art courses (though admittedly I focused mostly on digital art), and while I have some understanding of artistic approaches and things like color theory, I don't yet possess the miniature painting toolkit of knowledge and skills to be able to paint a miniature that looks "amazing". I can do something that I consider looks worthy to be used as part of a game, but I can't do anything that would be worthy of a competition or displayed just on its own. All that said ... I didn't even know some of these "rules" that you mentioned and I have been breaking them, and in some cases, I'll probably continue to do so.

[@jaretmoskal5558]

We probably think miniature painting has so many rules because we also watched a lot of Duncan when we were getting started

[@adamholt5395]

The one "rule" that I keep breaking is after you basecoat that you immediately wash. I've never had a good time using wash or shades on my minis. It might because the minis that I'm painting are not your typical GW minis. I've been painting minis for the board game Power Rangers Heroes of the Grid. Their minis are not the standard space marine size, they are larger. They also don't have a lot of small crunched up poses, most of the minis have long flatter looking surfaces which doesn't work well with shades. When the shades are on the mini it just makes them look dirty, and I just don't like it.

[@mattburgess5903]

I would be really interested to get your opinions on the Artis Opus videos on Drybrushing. I know Jon was joking about drybrushing having a noob reputation, but for some reason it is "shunned" when you can get amazing results.

[@doublepeek2x]

Prob a big part of that reputation came from Gw tutorial vids that drybrush 35 steps. Not saying it can't look great it maybe became a crutch for a lot of people who didn't want to do the whole effort thing. I personally think those artis opus vids are pretty cool. I am having a little bit of trouble with the pricetag for the series D set but I will probably end up with it sooner than later.

[@solidsentinel1285]

Rules are helpful for people like me who are just starting to get into model painting but they can definitely hurt the general creativity and experimental aspect of the community

[@Halliden88]

Vms clean slate from Poland is good for removing paint from plastics if you wanted something better than simple green 🙂

[@RobbyMaQ]

ouch on the ultrasonic cleaner. Definitely try not to use any flammable liquids in ultrasonic cleaners. Due to the ultrasonic action aerating the liquid, they become explosive fireballs just waiting to happen.

[@TheSmokingkiller]

Ive been catching up with the podcast and as someone wanting to get back into the hobby they have got me excited to do so i still have my reservations when it comes to warhammer but just hearing you talk about your dream mini creations gave me a goal i have a scene i wish to create and that will be my goal in me restarting this hobby, thanks guys keep up the good work =)

[@joshpickering5039]

The audio is only coming through my left speaker?? My music etc works fine

[@SHO0WO0]

I've always thought that people make rules because some people ask for rules, but others know that "rules" are more of a "learn from my mistake" type of Gray area.

[@joeldude1998]

I use LA's totally awesome in my sonic cleaner, and I get my plastic minis 90%+ clean after a couple runs. I found it after watching ebay miniature rescues.

[@baitbait65]

1:00:00 try some Gundam Markers! They're made specifically for painting plastic models.

[@orrinellis856]

yo miniac, i would be interested to see you paint some simple minis to a quick table top standard, since you always go try hard even when your speed painting. (some great candidates vampiric: bats, wolves, rats. also vampire thrall paladin w/ reaper style knight mini)

[@Jak0vas]

Ugh, my pet peeve is criticisms of the over use of OSL in the Star Wars minis groups, comparing film footage to the models stating that certain effects would only be real in dark conditions... I hate that everything has to be realistic or it's bad, if anything art should be about bending and breaking the rules to create something unique and beautiful.

[@theibault]

"It works perfect. Every time I do it, it works great. You must be doing something wrong." Seriously though, I use Testor's ELO and it works like a charm. Just a light scrubbing with an old toothbrush after a covering and all the paint will be gone. Just be careful to not leave it on the mini too long as it makes plastic brittle the longer you leave it on.

[@rossturner6535]

Biostrip 20 is great for removing paint from plastic models

[@jamesbruce1975]

Acetone is okay and usually available easily but if you can get it, cellulose thinners will strip a metal model in seconds. It’s awful to work with but holly he’ll it’s quick and rips everything out of the fine detail in metal models... but do not get it anywhere near anything plastic because it will eat through it so much faster than acetone.

[@UntiltedName]

So, I'm deaf in my left ear. GG. Turns headphones around backwards. This is a cool topic. I can relate because my wife sometimes paints my leftover mini figures. She has a BA in fine arts from a prestigious school. I didn't give her any guidelines with using my equipment or what the "standard" way of painting a mini is. All I did was hand her primed pox walkers. These things are some of the nastiest, most interesting fleshy models I have seen in person. I have learned more from her in a month of watching her paint, than I have scouring youtube for some niche mini painting videos.

[@JakeDogg-RIP]

Have a “how to play”, or a “Jon teaches Scott” relic blade please! Would be a great series 😁

[@vivanjester431]

Anyone else notice the audio is low and you can barely hear them?

[@wyrdhunter]

"Entombed in Plastic" should be a new spin-off podcast.

[@rampantrambling]

or a tomb kings themed episode

[@piesandhiking4943]

I wish I had that troll from Spira. So good.

[@davedogge2280]

It's called .... Isopropyl Alcohol 15 minute dip with an old toothbrush. Rinse and repeat. Ultrasonic cleaners are just for shaking loose bits off your mini like after you remove mold lines etc (just with water); only use the very expensive metal (non plastic) ultrasonic cleaners with flammable liquids that have a low flash point such as isopropyl alcohol other wise tears before bedtime, a plastic ultrasonic cleaner on fire and dealing with the fire brigade.

[@papaplintus]

I can't believe you would disrespect the misfits like that.

[@burtskurt]

Some rules are utter nonsense, but most rules, especially in the arts are not because some dude with a beret on wanted to make things complicated for impressionable students, it's because people have tried a billion different approaches and these are what actually results in the best work. How do you define best is almost universally; relatively easy to control and execute your vision, able to achieve a high definition naturalistic rendering (because this is generally most difficult and if you can do that you can stylize relatively easily from there), enduring (meaning your paint job isn't going to chip off or fade), easy to read, and emotive. plus staple on general art theory stuff and methods to get there.

[@burtskurt]

I'd also like to add in pretty much in any traditional media you have not only rules for rendering something, which is pretty much just what mini painting is, but you also have rules for how you create that form in the first place. You will not get a 1,000 different space marine models that look extremely consistent without rules for techniques that will consistently produce those results.

[@TheBatNaz]

isopropyl alcohol is safe with plastic. leave soaking for a few hours

[@ToddReynolds45]

Re: painting rules. I’ve seen people paint like cell-shading or comic book style. That seems like a paradigm shift aside from like desaturated, or a simple color scheme

[@gcoteqc]

They're heuristics techniques more than rules. They usually get the job done and that's why people stick to them. On the other hand, people can get a bit dogmatic about them when they don't take the time to understand why it works.

[@Winterydee]

I believe that you guys are implying that these "rules" when the truth is this are more "best practices" or "guidelines" for the better odds of a desired outcome. I would assume that Scott's background of programming he would already know about those terms. Those terms were always drilled in every lower level CS class I ever took.

[@danwichgames]

Rembrandt would have followed a lot of rules or canons at the time. I feel the perception that classical fine art some how didnt have clear rules comes from the institutional nature of fine art. These techniques and rules of thumb have been historically handed down throw guilds, schools and apprenticeships that have a high level of prerequisite and threshold of entry. Rules of mini painting are community grown and disseminated. Because they are easier for people to access they seem more prevalent and enforced.

[@Scherdnr]

Scott’s point of less creativity because people are searching for validation is true. The innovators or artists are often overlooked until later and not seen as popular at the time. It applies to KZbin too. It’s easy to chase the validation of likes and views of doing “Space Marine Eavy Metal video #274838” instead of stepping out and exploring creativity or something truly different.

[@joshcara5345]

Really want a trapped under plastic hoodie and stickers

[@pepiart1413]

56:40 agreed with Scott hahaha ~ but it’s fine, not bored ;)

[@FlinkerSebi]

Hey, your discussion reminded me of a radio show some years ago about two different types of artists: Gustav and Vincent. Gustav, the planner who puts a lot of effort into having the right ressources/tools and an in-depth preparation. Vincent, who's a rather spontaneous type and his creativity is driven from being limited/not having all the ressources. As you might guess one of the outcomes was that nowadays most people are more like Gustav than Vincent. And creating a real masterpiece is more likely a Vincent thing. :) (I found the link to an written excerpt, the show was much longer and in-depth. Maybe you can translate it if you're interested: www.deutschlandfunk.de/kultur-als-energielieferant-leidenschaft-und-sehnsucht-nach.691.de.html?dram:article_id=392587 )

[@kainoctis7724]

What you shouldve done is get someone who has no idea what miniature painting is or hasnt done any art based stuff and sat them infront of a mini and paint. Then slowly introduce a few rules with each following mini. Id watch it

[@colecollins5642]

Just how high was Jon during filming ?

[@stevekimble7665]

I thought that I knew every method for stripping plastic models until I heard about then tried Testors ELO.

[@danwagner4306]

Very Funny. love it! I'd reccomend Deo

[@ElDiablo572]

Brake fluid (yeah, the stuff for cars) strips just about anything, and it's safe with plastic, not suitable for resin though unfortunately

[@SangriaSamurai]

IKEA will replace parts for you if they get lost or damaged. Usually you just need the part number.

[@paintingbyminions8360]

My favorite “rule” is that you need to varnish/seal your minis!

[@benytreeide568]

I used the word "dollary-doos" in casual conversation today.

[@danwichgames]

If you guys are going to do 40k drinks, you should check out How to drinks channel. He did a few and is a huge 40k nerd.

[@culturewarsdiplomacy]

Yea I know seven months ago. For any art, martial arts included, you have to know the rules to know how to break them. Even this rule is not absolute.

[@chrisstabile3243]

This is a topic in any artistic endeavor and it's one which invariably comes down to "you need to know the rules in order to bend or break them". If you want to play jazz you don't just noodle on an instrument - there's a ton of music theory and techniques that need to be understood in order for those seemingly random patterns of notes become distinguishable from the actually random patterns of notes made by a couple of cats fucking on a piano. Can someone teach themselves to play jazz while also learning the instrument at the same time? Sure, but that's years and years of trial and error, a good portion of which could be circumvented with some form of education. And a professional jazz musician sitting on years of music theory and technique asking a total noob with no frame of reference to try to figure out why their solo sounds like shit is, well, kind of insulting. And asking them to "dig deeper" when they honestly reply "i don't know" is, at that point, just asking for some form of aggression. Are there tried and true techniques? Absolutely - they are rudiments which tackle the inescapable facts of the physical challenges of the chosen medium. Are there rules? When it comes to the physics of the chosen medium- yes. There is no such thing as F flat and color opposites cancel each other out when mixed. When it comes to interfacing with the physics of the medium - no. However, most of the time the experimentation that people do when teaching themselves ends up with arriving at the same conclusions and techniques anyways. Therefore, I'd say it's better to just learn the rudiments before fucking off to that jazz painting odyssey that makes us feel good and smug about not following the rules.

[@Philzila702]

"Thank you... this is the end of chapter 2." bahahahahahahaha

[@jegglz3845]

Omg that detlof story had to trigger so many people hahaha

[@richardvervuurt1058]

Isopropyl 99% . Strips clean plastic. Did a whole 2500 point army in 1 day. After leaving in IPA overnight.in sealed glass jar. Just drop in ultrasonic with a little normal.detergent and run. 100% clean. Of needed. Take tootbrush or needle to deepest recesses

[@OriginPainting]

Yeah, audio is all in left side...

[@Monkeyman12534]

I know you didnt ask. But testors makes a stripper that destroys paint, I'm worried it might destroy plastic but it's been ok so far. Simple green isnt great tbh

[@drathlor]

Tamiya panel liner, aka every Gunpla builders go to

[@theviper5952]

Audio is broken