Are VFR Flight Plans Dinosaurs??

[@1dullgeek]

So on the east coast where there's nearly 100% radar coverage, flight following is a great substitute for a VFR flight plan. But when you get into the western states where there are long swaths of area with no radar coverage, then a VFR flight plan makes sense. It's nice to know that you told someone the route you were flying through non-radar areas, and if you didn't close the flight plan, that someone is going to come looking for you.

[@Dub636]

Everything you said about radar here is true. What you said about them coming to look for you, is just factually incorrect. ADSB will show when you’ve landed. Very few remote places where ADSB signal is not available

[@breakinghues2751]

So I work for flight service, but the most common occurrence is that people file a VFR flight plan, but never activate it. I’ve talked to pilots that have been flying for 40 years that have told me they didn’t know they had to actually activate a flight plan. It’s crazy

[@jamesbonsey8148]

A slight correction to your podcast, VFR flight plans were not intended to let ATC know what you’re doing. They are intended to let FLIGHT SERVICE know where you’re going and when you plan to get there. And then either closing or failing to close the Flight plan let them know whether you made it, it’s a search and rescue tool. Regarding ADSB as an after the fact search tool, that is only useful AFTER somebody reports you missing. So that is still what the flight plan is for. If you are not filing a Flight plan you should absolutely make sure that some trusted person on the ground knows where you are going and knows to call for help if you don’t let them know within a certain time period that you are safely back on the ground.

[@breakinghues2751]

Exactly. A very common misconception about VFR flight plans is that a lot of people think ATC can see them. They will never see a VFR flight plan, only flight service will.

[@jimpinkowski3394]

A good buddy of mine used to say that you don't have to file a flight plan anytime you're flying in an area where the news copter will get to you before the first responders!

[@okiegrandboater]

As a retired search and rescue pilot, no one has to pay for rescue services unless you falsely report an emergency. Also flight service/ATC will always call the destination airport and ask if you are there before initiating any search and rescue. Don’t be afraid to call search and rescue if needed. I never do flight following but I always Eat someone know where I’m going and when I expect to be there and shoot them a text once on the ground (unless I’m flying IFR)

[@jsamsen]

I may have dated info but I don’t believe ATC has any knowledge of VFR flight plans. It used to be the domain of flight service. They had a protocol for instigating search and rescue of needed. Your right that flight following does provide ATC involvement and is more immediate support if needed.

[@breakinghues2751]

You are 100% correct. ATC does not receive a VFR flight plan. That is strictly a flight service function.

[@xenadu02]

If ATC had access to them like IFR plans it would make way more sense and be more useful. It would also simplify radio communications.

[@aeronical1656]

I often file a VFR flight plan when flying cross country between south Houston area and Fort Worth or Lake Charles. Generally a day or so in advance. One reason is they give me text alerts before I takeoff. About half the time I don't activate them especially if using flight following. The last time I went into Spinks in Fort Worth I was having radio problems hearing the tower so I stayed just south of there airspace until I could communicate with them but the tower let flight service know where I was just before I landed. I have always had a good experience flying in and out of Spinks.

[@GlensHangar]

Maybe in the USA you can make an argument that a filed flight plan is obsolete... But I fly in Canada, and for most flights I will definitely file a flight plan. Canada is a huge untamed landmass with large swaths that have no inhabitants, no roads, no airports, no RADAR, no Radio contact - and if you run into trouble you want Flight Services to know as quickly as possible that you didn't arrive at your destination to get SAR looking for you. When to start and where to look. ATC here in Canada does have access to your Flight plan route - when I call in for flight following , they already know I'm there and where I'm going. BUT there is zero that they will do if they lose radio or RADAR contact, there is zero that they will report if you fail to reach a certain point by a certain time; they don't call SAR if you drop off the 'screen' or lose radio contact. I flew a 5,000 mile round trip this summer and I was 'out of contact' both RADAR and Radio more than I was in contact. Flight Following is not a safety net here for SAR; Filing a flight plan is.

[@TakingOff]

Based on that, I’d file too.

[@michaelbishop9661]

In Australia it's free to file a VFR flight plan, and any SAR activity is also free. There is no reason to not file. Flight following is normal only available if a plan is in the system (depending on controller workload). Additionally it means you have done some degree of planning for the flight. It makes looking for you much easier for SAR activity with pilot details.

[@AlphaKilo.Warrior]

The last time I filed, it was my solo cross country with my instructor in 2008. We ended up making a mistake at a control towered airport. I got a phone call 5 days later from the ATC tower manager saying he got my number because I had filed and he wanted more information on what happened. I was so scared and shocked he called me. He was nice and I explained what happened. Never filed since.

[@richardgreen6857]

Hey Dan and Christy…Canadian CPL and aircraft owner. I file anything over about 100 nm. Ironically, I live in part of the most populous area (Southern Ontario) where you might think flight following would be readily available-but: we have an epic shortage of ATC and the major centre, Toronto often won’t take flight following or VFR traffic in the Class C (same as your Class B)….and our Night Rating is a 10 hour combination of instruction and solo including a 100 nm cross country added after the PPL

[@careyperry5567]

I’m a fan of using a flight plan especially in an area where there is terrain that mitigates radar contact when you enroute altitudes are insufficient to stay on radar. In the past I’ve had issues with closing once I had arrived (closed on the radio, then got a phone call checking if I arrived at my destination as if I didn’t close). But that was isolated to a particular FSS.

[@SW-be8zm]

I use VFR flight plans quite frequently. Flying in Alaska .

[@breakinghues2751]

Always a safe backup that you have someone looking for you. Alaska flight service specialist are awesome!

[@sterlingjh1]

I live in rural NM. My part 61 instructor flew in Alaska and insisted on it during my ppl. It’s a habit I’ve carried with me since I obtained my certificate. Between that and habitual use of fight following, I feel much better prepared to utilize all the resources available to me to maximize my safety and situational awareness.

[@hoffmanaeronautics6192]

I fly GA out of the Denver area. When flying west into the mountains, I’ll file VFR. Because those flights are often done below MEA or MOCA, coverage is too spotty, and terrain alerts are too frequent for flight following, so a VFR flight plan is the next best thing. Flying south or east, I’ll get flight following or even file IFR. The real-tine extra eyes are helpful, and sometimes ATC will route us through the Bravo to avoid other GA traffic.

[@neilsingh5311]

Get a Garmin InReach.

[@trcroesaua]

Great podcast! I live on Aruba and here we have to file a flight plan before each flight. Otherwise we don't get the permission to startup the engine. Fortunately these days it's easy to file a flight plan and we can go within 30 minutes after filing.

[@NorthwestAeronaut]

One thing to note is that if you simply drop off flight following with no communication, no one is f going to come looking for you. That’s still the advantage of VFR flight plans.

[@neilsingh5311]

@@NorthwestAeronaut But let’s be realistic. Why would you “drop off flight following with no communication”? FF is far more reliable in an emergency since you can declare mayday and hit 7700 on the squawk, if something goes wrong. Even having Guard on standby is superior to the flight plan. I agree that if a missile strike comes out of nowhere and instantly vaporizes you, Approach will just get confused by your sudden disappearance and maybe not follow up to search for you. But let’s deal with real world risks.

[@breakinghues2751]

@@neilsingh5311 I work at flight service and it happens ALL the time. Pilots sometimes get too low and lose communication, or they get the frequency incorrect and never get a hold of the next sector.

[@EricO1492]

In the DC SFRA you have to file a flight plan before you take off inside the SFRA or before you enter from outside the SFRA.

[@breakinghues2751]

Correct, but even for a VFR pilot, those are filed as IFR flight plans so the controller actually gets the strip.

[@tomjackson4655]

I flew from 2019-2022 from a US Navy base flying club, and a flight plan was required. So I've used quite a few VFR plans.

[@idkjames]

As ATC i can tell you 121 and 135 can be released under VFR conditions. Its not terribly uncommon in AK. 14 CFR 121.611. i have given flight following to a 747 doing a repo. Plus aircraft on scheduled routes to certain fields.

[@grayrabbit2211]

There's a clip on KZbin of a carrier repositioning an RJ from JFK to LGA VFR and the confusion that caused with ATC.

[@idkjames]

@grayrabbit2211 not sure how common it is in every facility but it's perfectly legal and not uncommon in ours. I'm sure SEA and Cape it's not either.

[@gab1961]

Filing a VFR Flight Plan is one thing....trying to "open" it is another. Trying to get a hold of FSS to open it is difficult in MA/NH (in my experience, ATC won't open VFR flight plans). I try to train my students how to use them but I usually fall back on "Flight Following" as the VFR tool. I do recall flying over the southern tip of Ontario from NY to MI where my flight was required to be on VFR Advisories ___AND___ an open VFR Flight plan.

[@TOldMansJB]

As an instructor, all my students, every cross country and flight following. Because they are both ACS items. Otherwise just flight following.

[@wstubbs8556]

In 45 years of flying I have not FileD but a couple of Flight Plans before the flight. If I cannot get FF , I call and file one. Plus I have Spot and two other Ways of contact.

[@neilsingh5311]

I’m with you both on this. 1. Flight following. 2. My wife has my FlightAware link for location. 3. My engineer brother, wife, and a pilot buddy receive my Garmin InReach link for my precise GPS location even if I suddenly crash. 4. iPhones now have crash detecting SOS GPS functions. 5. I fly with Guard on standby. That’s at least 5 different backups for expected location to be cross-checked with whether I made it. Why would I want to add the sixth, dinosaur and inefficient VFR flight plan method too? On top of which, forgetting to close the plan has consequences.

[@breakinghues2751]

What’s the consequence? You get a phone call saying you forgot to close? Also if you have a flight plan on file, and you’re on flight following, you can fly through some TFR’s. But if you’re on flight following and you do not have a VFR flight plan on file, you are in violation.

[@neilsingh5311]

@ The consequence is that you get a phone call, or you might even initiate a SAR operation. None of the other 5 methods create such a problem. Your other point about TFRs is incorrect. You don’t get to enter a TFR just because you’ve filed a flight plan. Flight plan or not, if ATC authorizes you to enter a TFR you can do so. The flight plan makes no difference.

[@rainbowdash7194]

In the UK VFR flight plans are not compulsory. the CAA guidance says you 'should' have a VFR flight plan to cross controlled airspace, but in reality nobody does, and I've never had a transit denied due to a lack of flight plan. Although in my experience flying in Europe, having a VFR flight plan filed has made my life a lot easier... mainly because there is no flight following this side of the pond.

[@mattmitcham820]

Always used them 45 years ago when I got my certificate. Quit flying for a long time. Started back a couple of years ago and have never filed one. Flight following and ADSB changed the world.

[@breakinghues2751]

True, but a lot of times if you’re on flight following and you just don’t check in, nobody’s going to look for you.

[@egec1]

I file a vfr flight plan on every xc flight. Every time. You are not assured flight following. So when Center says "unable", I'll bet most vfr pilots probably continue on with no flight following and no flight plan. I understand it's uncommon, but still.

[@breakinghues2751]

A VFR flight plan and flight following are two separate things. VFR flight plans are for Search and rescue purposes. If you don’t arrive at your destination within 30 minutes, and you are on an active flight plan, flight service will begin searching for the aircraft. Flight following on the other hand is just for air traffic control to advise VFR pilots of traffic in the area. ATC will never see a VFR flight plan.

[@jimengberg3117]

There is a big difference between filing a VFR plan and actually opening it. Are we assuming that everyone that files always opens their plan?

[@breakinghues2751]

I work at flight service and I would guess that 75% of VFR flight plans are never activated. People always file them and never activate them.

[@utah20gflyer76]

I sometimes file a VFR flight plan AND do flight following when I’m doing cross country flying over the Rockies where you’ll lack radio coverage for periods of time. If I go down I don’t want someone assuming I just landed to get fuel when I crashed somewhere that is extremely remote.

[@keithrickson8522]

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I have ALWAYS used VFR flight plans, and surprisingly never forgot to close one. I also always get flight following, have ADS-B, and plenty of people on the ground who know my plan. Overkill? I don't know, maybe so 😂

[@breakinghues2751]

I think it’s better to be safe than sorry. I’d rather have too many people looking for me rather than nobody looking for me.

[@SocataRichy]

I'm an FI (CFI) in the UK and we have no requirement to file a VFR Flight Plan unless we are crossing am international FIR boundary, I.e., if we're going to France or somewhere. Internal to UK FIR (London FIR and Scottish FIR) we don't need to file a VFR flight plan even when flying between the two as they're both considered UK FIRs (Flight Information Regions). It's like in the US you need to file to go to Bahamas etc. What we do need to do though is file if we want to go through controlled airspace but calling up on the radio and passing our details and request counts as an abbreviated flight plan for this purpose so still no filing of a flight plan in the true sense. In saying this, if flying over water to the Scottish Islands I might file one as a precaution (and recommended by the CAA).

[@andrewgalen4558]

Flying in the west and file (activate) vfr flight plans for most flights outside of my local area. As previously stated, with the mountains, there isn't always exceptional radar coverage and altitudes you have to get to to reach ATC and pickup flight following are pretty high.

[@paratyshow]

👍✅ Tks guys, good to see cold Christy keeping warm 🤣👏

[@UncleKennysPlace]

A quarter century back, I always filed a flight plan for any flight having a destination more than a couple of hours away. Then I started using VFR flight following 100% of the time, and stopped filing for VFR flights.

[@breakinghues2751]

Just remember that even though you’re on VFR flight following it’s not always approved in all areas, and also if you don’t check in, most of the time ATC is not going to look for you. Because it’s just traffic advisory.

[@badsgt1]

I’ve filed plenty in the DC SFRA VFR flight plans going from airport to airport within the SFRA. Not sure if y’all want to count that considering it’s mandatory.

[@Youtube_kontot]

In Sweden we don´t have flight following so you do file a VFR flight plan most of the time if you plan on leaving the nearby area. We have lousy radar coverage so ATC is mostly dependent on ADS-B so its nice to get a transponder code and know someone have you on a screen with info about who you are and what you are doing. But its not mandatory to do so. You can fly around as you wish in uncontrolled airspace all day long. You don't even need a radio or transponder to fly there so you better keep an eye out for "those people".

[@diegourbina9958]

I fly in Europe and Saudi Arabia, in Europe we are mandated to file VFR FP when crossing borders, and in Saudi Arabia VFR FP filing is always mandatory.

[@glennwatson]

In Australia VFR flight plans make sense. ATC see them and can see you route on their radar scopes. If you request flight following they USE it, radio calls become simpler (Melbourne Centre, Archer RCR, airborne lilydale request flight following) and give you alerts if you're significantly off track (unless you tell them that's what you're doing). In the US given its for SAR operations their meaning is a lot less. You'll likely be rejected flight following here without a ICAO flight plan since they are required to have one in the system and effectively you need to relay your flight plan over the radio if they approve without one.

[@breakinghues2751]

If you live on the East Coast you’re probably familiar with presidential movement TFRs. Just remember that even if you have flight following, you’re still in violation of the TFR if you do not file a VFR flight plan.

[@DanVanevenhoven]

christy you should be in OSH right now it's 9 deg. lol

[@guntherbohlen4939]

If german rules are of interest: on a vfr cross country you can request flight following on a special frequency by atc like uk basic Service. But filing a vfr flight plan is not mandatory. This changes if you want to fly to another country (for example from germany to france) or if you fly night-vfr outside the vicinity of your home airport. Then it is a must. Happy new year,🎉

[@kd5ptm]

I file VFR flight plans in scenarios where flight following is unavailable. I fly out of Colorado Springs, so in my case it’s any time I am mountain flying, which is anywhere west of me. Otherwise I use flight following.

[@breakinghues2751]

Just remember those occasions when you’re on flight following and you have something like an electrical failure. Nobody’s going to come looking for you for quite a while. Just because you drop off a flight following, or you don’t check in, or you get too close to terrain and they lose you, doesn’t mean they’re going to search for you. Activating a flight plan on the other hand means that flight service will start searching for you if you’re 30 minutes overdue.

[@jsennac]

I think is not obsolete but complementary; I was doing a 255nm XC flight when 1/3 of the trip suddenly ATC reaches out to let me know that my transponder was not reporting, they could not see me. Flight Aware showed my line disappearing (as when you land or as shown in accidents).

[@breakinghues2751]

Also think about electrical failures. You lose your electrical system and there goes your transponder, and ads-b.

[@auroran0]

In Canada, there are both Flight Plans and Flight Itineraries. I don't like the Itineraries, as SAR resources could be up to 24 hrs after the last reported estimated time of arrival. I'm also a SAR volunteer with the Civil Air Search and Rescue Association (Like Civil Air Patrol for Canada) We don't charge for searches because that leads to both delayed calls for assistance and makes for more difficult searching.

[@fspfathersonpaintball6177]

I also believe that it’s mandatory in Canada to file a VFR flight plan when flying more than 25 NM from a departure airport.

[@GlensHangar]

@@fspfathersonpaintball6177 Nope a flight plan is not 'mandatory' in Canada at any distance from departure airport. You can file a flight plan OR a flight Itinerary - and the flight itinerary is as simple as telling your partner / barber / buddy on the ramp where you're heading to and what time you expect to get there. Hoping that they will report you overdue to SAR or FSS when you don't arrive.

[@fspfathersonpaintball6177]

@@GlensHangar is it fair to say I stand partially corrected in that I forgot about the “flight itinerary” but either one or the other MUST be filed if flying beyond 25NM from the departure airport? Gotta say, I’m a huge fan of your channel, never miss an episode, being a fellow Canuck and I hope to fly with you some day. Still building my plane.

[@GlenAndFriendsCooking]

@@fspfathersonpaintball6177 That is correct - but a flight itinerary isn't really 'filed'.

[@fspfathersonpaintball6177]

@@GlenAndFriendsCooking i would have a look at CARS 602.73 with regards to the distance requirement and the language around the word “filed”

[@DJ99777]

In Australia flight following is rarely available due to lack of radar coverage or controller workload. A good way to piss off a controller is to ask for something like that or try to enter CTA and not have a plan in the system. We have to log a sartime or leave a flight note with a responsible person if we go more than 50nm. You don’t have to file a plan to log a sartime but you may as well if there’s one in your EFB already cos it takes 10 seconds.

[@GeneIpenburg]

Plus in Australia we do have to file VFR flight plans for remote area flying, ie Victoria to Tasmania, but for most part you don't have to file a VFR Flight plan. One is highly recommended if you want to go into Class D and C airspace. As DJ99777 said Flight Following is not normal, and good ole Australia make you pay for air services support and is mandatory for night VFR

[@Av8or7]

Absolutely Not! I only file VFR flights when flying over the desert and mountains. My airplanes don’t have ADSB or a transponder. Not in the Stinson, the Taylorcraft or my uncles Stearman. When Flying in Alaska in a Supercub I Ike when flying the mountains because ADsB isn’t perfect. I also carry a personal locator.

[@Dyson_Cyberdynesystems]

Curious what you mean by ADS-B isn't perfect?

[@jugshangar573]

Filed VFR exactly once since I have restarted flying GA a few years ago. Flight was was less than an hour from a small airport under the MEM Bravo to a towered airport under the STL Bravo. Checked in for flight following and was queried by Approach for alt, route, type and dest. Same questions when handed off to center. I asked if they could see my filed route, type, etc.. and was told they don't see anything re: VFR plans. Landed at the towerd field and, while at lunch, got the dreaded call asking if I was OK and to close out next time. I had assumed tower would close it out (being former military and now 20 years at part 121 lead me to that erroneous conclusion). They couldn't see it in the system either when i asked. Haven't filed one since and don't see the point of them.

[@LFLYpilote]

Hi Guys ! Well, flying in Europe or Africa it’s whole other story. In Europe the flight following is not always available, so if I fly early over the mountains, I file a flight plane. For Border crossings and Night VFR it’s mandatory. In Africa, you want people to know where you are !

[@Dyson_Cyberdynesystems]

Only ever once filed a VFR flight plan in Africa because I was crossing a border.. Twice I guess coming back. The moron at the tower on the way back made me refill out their flight plan form because it had their country's seal on it. Exact same information.. African Bureaucracy at its finest.

[@raderjohnson3890]

When I fly long cross country in my Pacer, I never file a flight plan. There are too many variables while I’m flying for it to make sense for me. Weather, closed airports, TFRs, active MOAs, the trip taking longer due to bathroom breaks, etc. Haha. I fly in the Intermountain West. My contingencies are flying with a PLB strapped to my chest, having guard in the active if I’m over remote areas, and telling a family member or flying buddy where I’m going if it’s a complicated trip. I’ve flown from Southern Utah to Washington State a few times and I can’t imagine using a VFR flight plan for that. Where I stop, the route I fly, and when I get there is going to change too much.

[@LimeyTX]

I learned in the UK in the ‘70s and those were before the EU. Filing a flight plan for international flights was mandatory so I filed VFR a lot. But I don’t ever recall having filed VFR in the US but I always use Flight Following. But then most flights except fairly local flights I would file IFR anyway. Departing IFR from a non towered airport was hard work in the days before cell phones because you had to call WX BRIEF to file and then call before you got in the airplane to get a release and void time. Today you can do that on a phone when you are #1 for departure.

[@Vejitasei]

IFR departure from a non-towered airport is now super easy. My cell phone is connected to the panel via bluetooth. I filed with the iPad. I do my full runway and wait just short of the departure end of the runway. Call ATC, copy my clearance, get a void time is normally take off now ~ 5mins. Then off I go. IF the traffic pattern is busy, and I am able, I depart VFR and get the clearance in the air. What's really helpful in a lot of the smaller non-towered airports is to get your clearance on the ground, take off VFR, then contact ATC to 'open the flight plan' in the air (rather than get the whole clearance in the air). Seattle Center and Salt Lake Center (seem too) really like that.

[@grayrabbit2211]

our local ATC said they don't see VFR flight plans. While they didn't come out and say don't bother, they strongly suggested Flight Following instead.

[@breakinghues2751]

You are correct. VFR flight plans are only for search and rescue purposes or flight into a TFR. So flight service holds those flight plans and ATC will never see them.

[@eriklindgren5870]

Learned to fly in the 90s and always filed a flight plan for cross country flights. Wasn’t until about 2015 I stopped filing in most cases and just use Flight following. Being on with ATC seems like a quicker life line than waiting for help after a due time. Great convo topic. Dan get Christy a jacket or pay the heater bill. 😂

[@FlywithDave]

Wow. I always file a flight plan and use leidos flight service prior to any cross country. It’s a standard for me and think everyone should. Could cut down on accidents. I have 1500 hours and feel I should use every tool available. .

[@Vejitasei]

I almost never file a VHR flight plan. They are NOT for ATC, but for flight service and search & rescue to have some idea that you didn't land as planned and a general route of flight to look for you. I am on flight following for all my long XCs, normally in radar contact the entire flight, carry a garmin inReach, and a survival kit in the back of the plane. Nothing in life is certain, but a flight plan is a very small part of my off airport landing safety net. I actually take the inReach for off road motorcycle rides, skiing of track, camping, hiking, etc. Having flown a single engine plane across the Rockies multiple times a ground based communication system is going to help you get rescued more than an expected route of flight you went missing somewhere flight plan IMHO. Again, I also use flight flowing for all my long XC flights for similar reasons.

[@HighFlight2k2]

DCSFRA has SFRA VFR flight plans you have to file. But outside of that, during training we went over submitting a VFR flight plan but we never put one in. Maybe ADSB and FF have made it obsolete. But as an eastern US pilot, that's easy for me to say. Not sure how coverage is out west.

[@breakinghues2751]

DC SFRA flight plans are filed as IFR flight plans. The only difference is that in the altitude box you put VFR/045. The reason for this is that ATC will never see a VFR flight plan. In order for them to get a strip, it has to be filed as an IFR flight plan.

[@HighFlight2k2]

@@breakinghues2751 Very interesting. Possibly Foreflight obfuscates the filing as I choose VFR (DC SFRA) and specify my VFR altitude. Approach also asks me if I filed a VFR flight plan when I'm on flight following.

[@hectorsegoviapilot]

Hey Guys ! You're right, here in Mexico it is required to file VFR, and it has to be done by paper at the airport authorities office every time. Whether you are Mexican tail number or foreign.You even have to carry all your documents as well as for the airplane. Cheers from Mexico and thanks for the really cool videos and info ! Hector Segovia

[@flyingconsultant]

I always file vfr flight plan (in Australia) unless staying within 50miles from my airport. I don’t have adsb yet, so flight following is a bit patchy.

[@calvynvandenberg6943]

In certain counties, especially in Africa, flight plans are mandatory!

[@towcub]

Never anymore. CO based. Been flying long enough that I used to file VFR all the time. I teach ground school, thanks for the pointer that if you fly in another country you’ll have to know how this works! I went about 6 hours down the road recently, eastbound at 9,500. Flight following all the way. Coming back I was low to prevent headwinds, 1,500 AGL. I had a couple pilots watching flight aware and expecting my text when I was done. Felt no need to file. It’s almost a dinosaur. But flying at pattern altitude for a long distance with no one watching, perhaps then I’d still file.

[@mwlphelps]

150hr new pilot here, I have never filed one. I am in busy Boston area airspace, so FF is easy to get.

[@breakinghues2751]

Just remember that flight following is only a traffic advisory. Your traffic controls main priority is separating IFR traffic. With that said, if you were to have an electrical failure or lost coverage say doing a cross country up into New Hampshire, nobody’s gonna look for you for quite some time.

[@jag12549]

Yes but I use traffic advisory all the time. Easier than clearing my way through multiple airspace and helpful for awareness always

[@lawrencebill8932]

What a disappointing podcast. I teach my students and practice filing/opening/closing a flight plan even for local pattern rides in a Class D. I don't know of any requirement for ATC to provide flight following (workload permitting) and follow up what happened if you don't cancel with them, often due to poor radio reception by the center. The FSS will follow up. Leidos 1-800WXBrief is configurable so you can get texts on your cell phone reminding you to open and close your flight plan. We get our standard brief (make sure you set the intended ETE, not the FAA computed, to allow for area and pattern practice time) and file every time. 30 minutes prior to filed takeoff time, FAA sends a text asking if you took off. We wait until just before takeoff to text respond with two key strokes to open the flight plan and then launch. The FAA confirms the flight plan is open. The FAA figures our flight time from opening time and sends a second text asking if we landed. Once shut down, we respond to this text with two keystrokes to close the flight plan and the FAA sends a closed flight plan confirmation. To my knowledge, Foreflight doesn't provide this text capability for VFR flight plans. Also, in my experience with the ADSB tracking websites, they do not give UAT-out airplane info unless the pilot is tagged up by ATC with a specific squawk.

[@PrivateCitizen7]

I always file a VFR flight plan and request flight following if I’m flying cross country >50 miles. Edit: newer pilot and I usually use ForeFlight, which makes it super simple.

[@PghGameFix]

With flight following.... I think VFR flight plans are being used a lot less. Back in '92... I filed a plan.... over the phone for my long Xcountry during PPL.

[@breakinghues2751]

A lot of people don’t understand that if you go overdue on your flight plan, flight service will look for you within 30 minutes. If you go nordo or have an electrical failure on flight following, ATC is not going to look for you for nearly 2 hours. That’s a lot of time where you could be hanging from a tree in the middle of a forest.

[@Crazy-fs2kx]

I always file a flight plan every time I go for enough to do the VFR flight following

[@reyesben]

I’ve never done one but if going long distances over woods or mountains I would do it even in the northeast. The VFR flight plan is 100% a search and rescue tool. When you’re 5 miles from an airport on a flight following, they cancel you and if something bad happens in those 5 miles, nobody will know. Where as with the filed plan, someone will be looking for you sooner and you would want help as quick as possible if you did go down. Otherwise it could be hours before friends and family start wondering where you are. The Flight aware track also usually ends before the airport so it’s not conclusive. It’s crazy I’ve never filed! I know all the reasons I should but tend to mitigate risk in other ways (fly over highways and avoid long desolate stretches by bending the route to stay over better terrain)

[@breakinghues2751]

Just make sure you activate it

[@FlyGuy_Aero]

GA: - Flying the Pitts I don’t file a VFR Flight Plan. Usually I try to stay near a big road or somewhere I can land. If it’s a deserted area or very busy airspace, I might pickup Flight Following. I’m getting a new Sentry for ADSB IN and WX. I miss my old one and that will work great for traffic avoidance. - As a CFI, I teach students how to file a flight plan over 1800WXBrief, through ForeFlight and/or Online. - Long XCs over deserted areas with poor radio and radar, file a flight plan. All pilots should know how to do this and understand talking to another human about your flight plan can be very important. ANY time you have a factor that makes the flight questionable (personal, WX, MX, W&B, etc) get a second opinion and think long and hard about it. A lot of pilots go down because they don’t get a second opinion, or ignore them to their peril.

[@planenut767]

Last time i used anything remotely resembling a VFR flight plan was the only time i went through the DC FRZ about 10+ years ago. Otherwise I've never used them.

[@deani2431]

Canada DOES NOT require VFR flight plans.

[@jebr055]

About forgetting to close your flight plan. I'm not IFR rated (yet) but I heard once that you should always leave your cell number in the comments when you file. That way if you forget to close it they can just call you. I think it was an air traffic controller that told me that.

[@breakinghues2751]

Flight service specialist here. The cell phone number works, just the main thing is the contact should be somebody who knows where the aircraft is at.

[@chrisbruffett3270]

I got my PPL 3 months ago. I get Flight following for sure. I never file. My school doesn’t teach flight following, which I thought was ignorant. I had to learn it via KZbin for my solo XCs. But it’s like learning to fly 30 years ago there.

[@breakinghues2751]

It’s really sad that a lot of flight schools don’t teach students flight following, flight plans, ICAO etc

[@revodom]

My flying club requires filing VFR flight plans for cross country flights, so I file one each time but don’t activate it. Anyone else do that? I do also use flight following.

[@breakinghues2751]

Filing a flight plan but not activating it is useless. The flight plan times out two hours after your proposal, and disappears out of the system. Nobody will look for you. On the other hand if you activate it and arrive at your destination more than 30 minutes later than your planned, someone’s going to be looking for you.

[@martinap1961]

I text my flying buddy (& vice verça) of ETD and ETA with a general route … it is legal in Canada

[@cstacy]

This seems to be a complete misunderstanding of VFR Flight Plans. It's not (and never has been) "just like an IFR flight plan but you don't have to follow the rues". It was always nothing more than a request for Search & Rescue. The way it works is that if by some reasonable time period after your specified landing time, you fail to close your flight plan, then S&R is initiated. (Exception: at an operating towered airport, they close the flight plan for you when you land. So you don't need to make a phone call or whatever after you're down.) However, at no point along the route do the controllers know anything about you. Nobody is "watching" you. ATC is entirely unaware that you exist or have any "flight plan". Nothing. The only thing that ever happens is that if you don't close your flight plan on time, an alarm at the Flight Service Station goes off and they start looking for you. That's it. And when that happens (assuming they don't have an ASDB track on you) is to first try to send someone to the airport to see if you actually landed and forgot to call. (That takes care of 99.9% of the cases.) If you're not there, they start asking ATC along the route if they happened to notice you. And then it's checking along the route you filed to see if you landed somewhere or crashed. The VFR Flight Plan is nothing more than a request for S&R after a certain time, and some documentation of where to look. I always file a VFR Flight Plan, and I also get Flight Following. They are two entirely different things and are entirely unrelated to each other. Just getting Flight Following is not enough of a plan for several reasons. The main one being that Flight Following may not be available. They never have to give it to you - it is only if they are not busy with IFR traffic. "On a workload-permitting basis" is the language. And if you do get it, they can terminate Flight Following at any time. And none of the controllers anywhere't have your VFR flight plan. It's not "like an IFR Flight Plan". It's not even an ATC thing - it's a Flight Service Station thing. You can say that you have friends waiting for you to show up who can look on FlightAware or something. That's nice. How long do they know to wait before wondering if you crashed? What if you don't have people waiting with baited breath for you? What if you're just out for a joyride? Personally, on many of my flights, it might be six WEEKS before anyone noticed I was missing. I'd rather have the VFR Flight Plan and two hours before someone gets excited. I say again: I get Flight Following whenever I can (which on the east coast corridor is approximately all the time).

[@breakinghues2751]

This is almost spot on with the exception of landing at a tower airport. The only time your flight plan automatically closes at a tower airport is when you are on an IFR flight plan. When you land VFR, you can ask the tower to contact flight service, but they rarely do because it’s not their responsibility. Flight service is contracted out and no longer FAA. So the controllers don’t really care. Eventually you’ll be 30 minutes overdue, flight service will put you in search and rescue, and the first call they will make is either to your cell phone or to the tower, to confirm the aircraft is on the ground

[@grayrabbit2211]

Close Flight Plans is on our checklists... you do use checklists every time, right?

[@ivoryjohnson4662]

Depends on the area and the flight

[@TimAustin-l7b]

I wouldn't consider flight following a substitute for VFR flight plan. Too many gaps when they either don't give it to you or chance for something to happen after "radar service terminated." If something happens then, nobody will be looking for you. Most important thing is for somebody to know where you are going and knows to call somebody if they don't hear from you. The VFR flight plans are easier than ever now with Foreflight etc. Forgetting to close isn't that big of a deal. They will make some phone calls and try to find you long before they call out rescue. - Funniest experience of mine: flew to a towered airport with a student on a VFR flight plan, which we forgot to close. Called the tower for a visit. We were standing in the tower cab when flight service called to see if they had seen us. Embarrassing, but we all had a good laugh.

[@breakinghues2751]

Thank you for the flight service job security

[@stephenfabiszak6039]

I Imagine 10,000 GA pilots requesting VFR flight following to/from Oshkosh would break the system. I also think N numbers on aircraft should go the way of the dinosaur IF the plane is ADSB-Out equipped.

[@InterestingStuffAdventures]

That’s because VFR flight plans don’t do a thing for you. If they treated us a a priority like they do IFR pilots would probably do it.

[@breakinghues2751]

Well they are an insurance policy. If you don’t arrive at your destination within 30 minutes, someone’s gonna start looking for you. Also if a TFR pops up on your route, do you have a flight plan on file which would meet one of the requirements; sure you would still need to be on flight following, but at least you have that extra insurance.

[@jasonnissenbaum6323]

You do not need to file IFR for 135 ops only jets do

[@dealer197]

Not for 8 plus years

[@neilwallbridge8226]

I set an alarm on my phone for 15 minutes prior to SARTIME

[@TakingOff]

That’s a great idea.

[@farfetch7]

❄️❄️❄️☃️☃️☃️ I think VFR flight plan is always good. I file it almost every time when going long distances. VFR File the plan Get Flight following Or just go IFR Practice to keep the skill set up to date. I want to go to Canada!

[@breakinghues2751]

Just don’t forget to activate the flight plan

[@farfetch7]

Of course and close. Never had a problem in forgetting to close.,

[@1shARyn3]

Most VFR flights are not to a destination different from your departure ---- making a flightplan complicated and restrictive and useless. For point to point (more than 100nm one-way), they make sense. Otherwise, not

[@breakinghues2751]

What if a TFR pops up while you are flying? At least you’re meeting the requirements for the TFR if you’re on flight following.

[@1shARyn3]

@@breakinghues2751 ????? A flightplan won't let the pilot know whether a TFR pops up. They only provide SAR individuals information as to where to possibly look for you if you don't materialize at your destination. Flight following MIGHT provide that information, assuming ATC has the time to bother telling you (if you ain't IFR, you're low priority). My EFIS, OTOH, has 100% reliability, so far, of informing me whether a TFR is acive or not

[@1shARyn3]

Also, unless you are flying well above 10,000 MSL, you are likely to be below or beyond radar range unless you are within 25-30 NM of a radar facility.

[@JohnLemieux]

Paper ones are

[@SnoDawg]

Why is she wearing a blanket? Do you not have heat in your “studio”?

[@nonrevhogan8938]

Looks like you need a sponsor off electric heaters. I see your in a hoody too. Looks like a room. No heat?? Ha. Then get her a heater. You can have heat for your podcasts. Ha.

[@MichaelHainen-g1m]

Summertime Midwest, WATCH FOR CORN STEAM OR CORN FOG, billions of gallons of water ebbs and flows between corn and first 500’ dusk & dawn