Are Video Games A LEGITIMATE Art Form?

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Video games have always been on the cutting-edge of storytelling, particularly as developers gain access to new technologies, allowing them to create increasingly immersive worlds. As an artist and someone who has experienced video games since their inception, I have a few thoughts about the medium in terms of its viability as an art form, its capacity for good and evil, and its capacity as a legitimate storytelling device.
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#VideoGames #Gaming #Gameplay #AndrewKlavan #DailyWire

[@GrieverIIDX]

This proves my suspicion that Andrew Klavan is in fact the most cultured Daily Wire host.

[@PatrickKniesler]

It's a fact.

[@conversandoando]

Read his books and that's confirmed

[@alfonsobiggers2452]

Andrew: I was there at the start with Pong... Us: Ah, I see you are a man of culture as well...

[@ricardozk]

Kinda ironic if you think about it.

[@Beregond1861]

Suspicion?

[@guardian962]

Finally, someone at this company that doesn’t dump on video games. Great take, Andrew!

[@ThePreciseClimber]

And he's the oldest one. A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.

[@ChozenBardoUmbra]

I think most of them had a positive view on video games, on one of the backstages a while ago, specially Boreing and Klavan.

[@garrett3726]

Matt Walsh dumps on everything. He’s a crabby old man despite being in his 30’a

[@Augustus_Imperator]

I think it's a symptom of the culture war, if the liberals love videogames, then "muh all games bad", it's the exact same thing the leftists are doing with the things conservatives like

[@budsmith5368]

I didn’t think I’d agree with him, but I ended up doing so on almost everything he said in this video.

[@BATM_Media]

If digital art is legitimate art, if storytelling, and fiction are legitimate arts, if music is a legitimate art, then of course the sum total of all those things combined is legitimate art. Not to mention the design of balanced, engrossing and fun gameplay mechanics could also be considered art.

[@kylemccormack1785]

Hah, if someone doesn't think creating a functional digital game that is fun to play isn't art, I invite them to try it.

[@Tyler_W]

Indeed. Video games are the product of a wonderful marriage between art and science, and that's what makes them great.

[@mkv2718]

You pretty much summed up my issues with shapiro’s take on “rap is not music” cuz it doesn’t have have all the components of music, melody, harmony, and rhythm… and while yes, some hip hop does have those things, even the ones that don’t would have to be music, otherwise a single a cappella singer wouldn’t be music, a drum solo wouldn’t be music…. It would just be a silly take

[@isair_7615]

It’s an art style but my problem is with remakes of classic games. It takes the time and effort but how many times is something going to get a remake? At this point the entire RE franchise is going to have a remake of a remake. Yo me it feels like a lack of creativity.

[@elimgarak1127]

Gameplay is not art. It requires human input. The art stops where the art stops. That being the art in the game and maybe the writing (rarely that, it's generally pretentious crap).

[@captainkaiii]

Final Fantasy, Dark Souls, Metal Gear Solid, and countless other games have incredible stories and thought-provoking, deep lore. It's basically like playing through a very long movie. Nobody is realistically going to watch a 40-60 hour long movie, but playing through these stories provides a completely different medium that is certainly a form of art. Klavan's take is the best take (as usual).

[@FirstLast-yc9lq]

I'd argue Dark Souls has one of the best fantasy worlds ever created - that's across mediums. It truly is iconic.

[@admthrawnuru]

Seems like Klavan isn't really into RPGs, plenty of them have great stories. But he's right to point out that the interactivity and ludonarrative aspects of games make them more engaging than other media everything else being equal. Your fill in a lot of the story and character yourself.

[@bighands69]

The story of Metal Gear Solid 1 ads to the game play experience but it is not a good story by it self. It is a very basic story with lots of cinematics. The key is not to get too bogged down by the story of a game and get offended when people say that the story is not good. It is one of the better video game stories but that by it self does not make it a good story. MGS 2, MGS 3, MGS 4 and MGS 5 are nowhere near as good as the first game because they are too over bloated with stories that are just stupid. MGS 1 story is not stupid like the others.

[@tarrickmerdev2324]

Actually Dark Souls/Demons Souls is a very good example to exactly Klavan's point. It doesn't even have a story. The only story you're given is that some knight thought you might be the "chosen undead" and let you out of prison. That's it. What it does have is a detailed and interesting world that you're a part of and makes you want to explore it. That's what makes Dark Souls such a good game. Video games don't actually have good stories, usually for the sake of gameplay. If you put the plots of games into a novel, it would be very simplistic mechanically with over-the-top themes. They will never compare to something like Lord of the Rings or The Wheel of Time because it's the deep and interesting characters and intricate plots that make those stories fantastic. Video games characters don't have that much depth and the plots are generally restrained from being too complicated for the sake of gameplay. The video game medium just doesn't support the same level of storytelling. What video games do instead is immersion. They may not be able to have all these interesting characters or plots, but they can have incredibly detailed worlds and really pull the player into it. That's what Klavan was talking about. Because they're interactive, video games can make you a part of their world and get you engaged into whatever is happening there. Other mediums can't do this to nearly the same degree.

[@chipperdrewski]

Bloodborne

[@lanc2776]

I absolutely LOVE Klavan's takes on culture. This is no exception.

[@Mr.Strickland410]

The rest of DW should take culture lessons from klavan

[@sirubisan698]

Based. If you have parents that weren't overly conservative like my friends, this will be for you.

[@legoyoda6794]

Modern Aristotle.

[@InvaderG]

way better than Ben’s. he hates anything good.

[@Mr.Strickland410]

@@InvaderG fr. He refuses to watch anything that’s against his political views.

[@laurenbailey4145]

I think video games are one of the only mediums of art that can do a truly good job of exploring moral dilemmas, because instead of watching someone go through it, you are having to make those choices yourself. I think the video game Soma is one of the best examples.

[@TheDeisasori]

Another mention to that would be Shin Megami Tensei series. It's a JRPG set in a world torn with war between forces of law and chaos. Throughout the series each game manages to bring out the good in each factions, with you having to choose either side or go your own way should you find the opposing forces too shortsighted. The storytelling in the latest one, SMT V, is done in a passive way, and when I explore and talk to everyone in the game, everything just clicks. Best game I've played so far.

[@theawesomeman9821]

Nicely put, you explained why video games qualify as art more than the video.

[@elimgarak1127]

Read a fucking book, please.

[@ryanhoward8694]

I think videogames can make even scripted actions hit home harder. I remember playing MGS 3: Snake Eater years ago and realizing that the game wasn’t going to execute The Boss for me. Kojima made me, the player, be the one to pull the trigger. That made the tragedy of that moment sink in a lot deeper than if I had just watched someone perform the action in a film.

[@bighands69]

Video games are not art. They are an interactive production that is not art.

[@beanzor]

Klavan is the only person I truly enjoy listening to on the DW. The rest of the crew, despite being younger, seem to be the most ancient. Even my parents enjoyed video games.

[@dereksbooks]

He's by far the best of DW, hands down. Also seems like the most genuinely kind too.

[@jonathanhallberg3009]

Especially Matt Walsh. That guy could pass as a member of the Spanish Inquisition.

[@artfrieso8851]

@@jonathanhallberg3009 Nobody would expect him.

[@tayzk5929]

Notice how this video is supposed to be about videogames and art, yet he just HAS to bring up the "holocaust" etc etc.... Same with Prager U, it's almost like that's really what they do their videos for while they draw people in they have an ulterior agenda every.single.time.

[@davideden2496]

@@jonathanhallberg3009 😂😂

[@TheRealestBiggestM]

My favorite quote about video games comes from Mike Krahulik from Penny Arcade, where he asked the question "how do you take a hundred artists, all making art, then you put that art together and not get art?"

[@kathycoleman4648]

This is the interesting thing. As I contemplated the idea of whether art relies on its creation by a singular artist or not, I reached the personal conclusion that actually most things we think of as an artistic expression start out with a single point and then expand to encompass many people who work on them. Music is generally played by a band, produced by a producer, and released by a label. Movies start as scripts and then take a ton of people to make them real. Even the humble book goes through rounds of editing and refinement before the public sees them (minus some self published stuff).

[@nightmarishcompositions4536]

Precisely. Video games are literally just a fusion of just about every artistic medium ever invented.

[@brian0057]

A museum.

[@Avenus112]

I mean, if you take tomatoes and turn it into paste, then press milk into cheese, and raise pigs for slaughter and use some of that for sausqge and bacon, and spread it around on bread that you made from wheat, then burn wood in a structure of stone that circulates heat and you put that tomato cheese sausage loaf in that oven- isthat what you get, or is the result something different and new? Maybe art just doesnt describe video games properly. Maybe peoplr take art too seriously and games just evolved past that umbrella.

[@TheRealestBiggestM]

@@Avenus112 I totally get what you're saying. There are a lot of mass produced games that aren't made with love and passion. In those situations the qualifier of "art" is certainly debatable. But the games Andrew has been playing are definitely expressions of art. Also, I get what you were going for with your analogy, but you did list a bunch of foods that were put together to make another elevated version of food.

[@heinricho]

2:50 My mom is older than Andrew Klavan and when I got an NES she bought Zelda and she be both the regular quest and the master quest and drew her own maps by hand. Take that whippersnappers!

[@kylemccormack1785]

She's my hero.

[@FinnishCraig3]

In the age of the internet, I did the same because I refuse to look things up online.

[@leolizard3152]

That’s amazing.

[@AlphaCrucis]

Ok you really got me at the master quest and map drawing parts. Awesome mom you have there.

[@natewilson111]

Some of my fondest memories with my dad were when he helped map out a DOS game with my siblings and me (back in the 90's)

[@belowthestoneofficial1476]

Developer here. As an admirer of your art, I'm glad to hear someone talking about this and dedicate a video to it. Thanks Andrew!

[@delicious_seabass]

This is one of the best takes on video games I've heard in a while.

[@deriznohappehquite]

Klavan is used to seeing new art forms, like cinema, the printing press, literature, the cave painting, poetry, and song. He’s a very open minded guy.

[@dp7987]

Until he said last of us is about killing zombies then praised god of war for its story telling. Not saying god of war isnt good. It is. But the characters story is almost identical.

[@delicious_seabass]

@@dp7987 It's not so much his critique of games I'm concerned about. It's that he recognizes games as both an art form and a form of entertainment like any other. I'm tired of hearing from people about how stupid video games are, then proceeding to looking down and stare at their phones as they flip through TikTok videos.

[@robertdouth8979]

@@dp7987 He doesn't have to get all takes correctly to still be right in general about video games. If he doesn't like your or my favorite game and has what I think is a bad take on it, that's fine and completely allowed.

[@dp7987]

@Robert Douth true, but when you clearly haven't even engaged with what you are critiquing and are objectively wrong in every aspect. It can (and should) be called out.

[@topgun2010]

I love Klavan's take on this. Just awesome and completely accurate. Watching him play Ragnarok was awesome. Klavan's an OG.

[@HechiOkami]

Look at his ghost of tsushima take and you'll change your mind...! He obviously didn't play ghost of tsushima and already talks bad about the game's social society even tho what he complained about was in the game..smh

[@robertdouth8979]

@@HechiOkami Someone can have a bad take on one game and that doesn't invalidate all their good takes. I wish people weren't so all or nothing on all things. Also, what the fuck are you talking about. I went and watched his GoT review. he praises the game for it's mechanics and beauty and for not being woke. He doesn't talk bad about the game's social society (whatever that's supposed to even mean)

[@HechiOkami]

@@robertdouth8979 That's true! But it's still telling me that he talks about games that he didn't even play himself! That's fine too but at least get your facts right or play the game yourself! OR make a update video talking about that it was actually not the case etc. Now people that didn't play a game and listens to his take on it, can't even be sure if it's right or not and maybe just believe everything!

[@HechiOkami]

@@robertdouth8979 He did on a KZbin shorts about ghost of tsushima, I didn't talk about the GoT review

[@HechiOkami]

@@robertdouth8979 Watch his short video and you will see he doesn't even know that masako exists...! Or yuna..the female assassin that literally saves jin's life at the start of the game...or the side quests where you can see a Kunoichu or female warriors...!

[@RedAndBlueAndOthersToo]

Video games are subject to review in each individual circumstance, but they add to culture in a multitude of ways. Sometimes it’s the visuals, sometimes it’s the narrative or plot. Sometimes, it’s just the environment the game crates for individuals to interact with one another. Games create community, they teach problem solving and communication skills, they can build confidence in some respects. Even back in the N64 days, games were a blast and huge for making friends and meeting people. Older generations really tend to look down on gaming and it’s always refreshing to hear Klavan back us up.

[@Wolfe-zl4ld]

I want a lieutenant Michael Byrd game! 🇺🇲💪😎

[@denroy3]

Relax...most of the adding to culture is a bad thing. Taken as entertainment they are great...but don't elevate them to creating anything very positive in culture.

[@jimglass3106]

Video games have always been about the exploration and escape for me. Turning 50 this year and still playing every day. New to the show,but loving it so far.

[@flamingburitto]

As a video game developer this video fills me up with joy. And it made my day, thank you Andrew : )

[@cammm063]

i’m interested, what games have you worked on / are you working on?

[@mickeymickey9914]

Let me guess, you're making a pixel game about depression.

[@flamingburitto]

@@mickeymickey9914 lmaooo no. I'm under NDA so I can't fully say but it's a fast paced top down shooter. With Platforming built in. Think of it like playing titanfall but in top down environment like in the ascent.

[@flamingburitto]

@@cammm063 . I'm under NDA so I can't fully say but it's a fast paced top down shooter. With Platforming built in. Think of it like playing titanfall but in top down environment like in the ascent. In the past I've only made student projects that I never published. Sort of like practice games.

[@beanzor]

@@flamingburitto more power to you man! Wishing you success

[@Jerome616]

In all my years I never expected Andrew and I to share a love of classic Diablo gaming.

[@bighands69]

I prefer Diablo 2. But I also find Baldur's Gate 2 superior two the first game.

[@podeshahejalol]

😂😂😂

[@JimmyRustle1089]

Tai’Shar Manetheren

[@Jerome616]

@@JimmyRustle1089 👍🏻👍🏻😇

[@Purple.Dog17]

@@Jerome616 I think a better salute would be crossing your Rands beneath your Perrins while tugging your Mat angrily.

[@jayjayjigsbys]

About the story issue: this is why I love the Dark Souls/Elden Ring games. They don't have stories; they have lore. I remember reading that Shigeru Miyamoto had a design philosophy that gameplay is paramount; story is secondary. I believe that works.

[@labakrapscalio451]

Dark Souls is a masterpiece that gave me emotions that no other form of art has ever come close to.

[@D1sc0rd-]

Bloodborne played a major role in my coming to Christ. FromSoftware’s titles are so ideal that after I found their games I sold all but 3 of my disc games that weren’t fromsoft, stopped watching lots of movies/shows/youtube crap, most everything else paled in comparison, the bar for basically all forms of entertainment media was raised insanely high

[@daciannation5847]

@@D1sc0rd- Wait how did it help you come to Christ? Thats sick

[@lostwanderingprince]

Read a book iliterate

[@ineedscissors6176]

@@daciannation5847probably Ludwig and the Healing Church

[@guillermodominguezdelafuen2730]

Red Dead Redemption 2 is a genuinely therapeutic story. Arthur Morgan's personality traits and redemption arc are something I would teach my kids

[@alondite215]

It also plays like shit, and is therefor a shit game.

[@requix11]

Its a must play for anyone. Best game ever made imo.

[@beardedlonewolf7695]

I was about to say RDR2, anyone saying RDR2 isn't art has no idea what is art, this game is a masterpiece.

[@alondite215]

@@beardedlonewolf7695 Lol. It's primary mechanical function is so poorly designed that the game has to practically do it for you in order for the game to even be playable. And that's just one of its many catastrophic design faults, along with the fact that it has zero depth, compressed dynamics, brain-dead AI, a total lack of environmental interplay, the literal majority of the game is negative space, etc. etc. The game is a piece of shit, and anyone who thinks otherwise has no idea how to even determine if a video game is good or not. A video game is never great, and it's never art because of cutscenes and passive narration. Games are not film, and games that pretend to be are _worse_ for it, not better.

[@sandhyachayal5250]

​@@alondite215 go watch those snl skits grandpa

[@arkhambricksskylar]

TLOU isn’t Just killing zombies. The infected are there and part of the story, yes, but the game is about a broken father who grows to love and let people in again. It’s also about a girl who is terrified of being alone and being let down again and again to find a father in a hardened man who can’t let go of the past. Two flawed, broken, and scared individuals find family in one another amid everything. TLOU is much more than killing zombies.

[@k1n6n07h1n6]

It's basically The Road with zombies.

[@Jordie_42]

I don't feel sorry for her in the end because she ruins it by going after She Hulk. She's all alone and has no one to blame but herself. Stupid character and story with garbage gameplay.

[@airjaws_8922]

@@Jordie_42 we're not talking about that trash sequel. We would be talking about a bad story if so.

[@lucdochterman]

once he said that, I was like, " Tell me you haven't played TLOU without telling me you haven't played TLOU."

[@ace_v2905]

@@airjaws_8922 based

[@ryanfreer77]

One great game-perhaps among the greatest-was Bioshock, which had a near perfect balance between its story and gameplay. I thought of this because what Klavan said is generally true. Most games do suffer from a lackluster story; and those with stronger storylines typically compromise the gameplay in some way. But Bioshock is the first exception that comes to mind in this regard. It’s still mesmerizing just how uniquely creative and beautiful that game was.

[@CaseyQ]

Agreed. I'm a cinephile and I don't think ive ever been so taken back by a story than getting to that point in bioshock where they tell you what's been going on.

[@Tyler_W]

I'd love to see him play Bioshock on a stream. He would have some interesting things to say about the opening and about the story of Rapture. He'd have some interesting thoughts about all of them in that series, really. I'd love to hear him go on a rant about Woodrow Wilson while playing Bioshock Infinite.

[@nundulan]

Spec Ops: The Line too

[@jahimjauh-hey5653]

You can tell very effective narratives in video games. I think I enjoyed Red Dead Redemption 2 story than any movie or tv show from that year. The scene with Arthur and the nun talking at the train station had a profound impact on me.

[@nkfd4688]

I was born in the mid 70's and grew up through the 80's, so I also grew up with the pioneer platforms that started the whole video game craze that's still going on today. Originally, video games were just that -- games. Not too fancy and operated within the boundaries of the technology at the time. Nowadays though, the sky is the limit and almost as much time and effort put into making a feature length movie can be found in making a video game. From the script, to voice work, to sometimes a full orchestra for the soundtrack, etc. You can't tell me that movies are a form of art and video games aren't!

[@cheddar2648]

8-bit NES popped my cherry

[@ryanfreer77]

Yep...born in ‘77 here. We were the generation to see these games evolve, along with so much digital technology, from their very origins.

[@troublemaker9899]

Oh please. Video games take a lot more work these days than feature-length movies do.

[@TomGrubbe]

Read Dead Redemption II took 8 years to develop and cost over $500 million.

[@randymyer2996]

Same, back in the arcade days. I always tell people that me and video games grew up together.

[@francescoryuzaky3120]

Elden Ring world design is a work of art by itself

[@synnical77]

Yes, the world design is. As are many other components. The game itself is not art though. Its a game.

[@rydout]

@@synnical77 A thing can be more than one thing at a time.

[@synnical77]

@@rydout Obviously. But, people can also call things something and it actually not be that thing. Counting a player's traversal through a game as part of that art is where I draw a hard line.

[@rydout]

@@synnical77 I think most of it altogether could be considered art. Your actual walking through the world is just you walking through the world. I could consider certain games to be game/art. Elden Ring and Death Stranding come to mind.

[@jacobtrout2303]

@Synnical What is art? Do we not call architecture, a collection of geometrical proportions ordered towards some purpose “art”? Is not art the ordering of the creative faculties towards some purpose or product? How can you say games are not art? Do they not capture ideas? Do they not portray visual landscapes pleasing to the eye? Have you never seen a photo mode? Have you not studied how games with great mechanics function towards something greater than the parts that form the gameplay loop? You are ignorant of what you say.

[@bryancadents3559]

The From Software games like Dark Souls do an amazing job of environmental story telling. The gameplay is excellent and engaging, and the lore of these worlds is often quite deep, but the gameplay isn’t interrupted by storytelling and vice versa. You can delve as much into the lore as you like, or not and just focus on killing monsters. But the worlds do an amazing job of drawing in the player.

[@tonytran07]

ELDEN RING! ROAAAAAAARRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't need 'spirits' to beat bosses. I solo! LETS GOOOO!!! Check out "Seamless Coop mod". You can play up to 6 players now! LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@TheDeisasori]

Similar thing with Shin Megami Tensei V. It's an RPG in a world torn by war between chaos and law, with the story told passively. If you talk to other people in there, you will find a living world and compelling characters.

[@mikevallone8619]

Just started demon souls to kill time before Hogwarts and haven't been more pleased.

[@dr.calibrations7984]

@Mike Vallone me and the missus just started a Bloodborne run through last Monday, I misses this, it's her first time, she really liked Elden Ring and wants to play the series now

[@mikevallone8619]

@@dr.calibrations7984 I can't beat one boss in Bloodborne. He was at a church or something. On a rooftop maybe. Anyway, I never finished it. One of my life's great regrets. Elden Ring was a masterpiece.

[@TyreII]

Playing Mario with my dad and siblings when i was young are some of the best memories i have. Thanks for being the first gen gamer!

[@MrBigphil83]

Thank Bald Gandalf for your words of wisdom! As a 39 year old male almost 40. It makes me feel good to know that I can use this as an escape and have it be ok for me as long as I don’t let it take over my life

[@voxploxx]

Video games combine all art forms. Narrative, story telling, visual art, and music. And the best part is they're interactive! This creates a unique experience where you are in control of pushing the narrative forward and have agency over the character you're playing. This creates a stronger emotional investment compared to say, a movie, where you're just passively observing things unfold around you with no control or input yourself. It's no wonder video games are the biggest entertainment entity in existence nowadays, blowing away both movies and music combined. This isn't the 80s and 90s arcade games anymore. Video games are some of the most engrossing experiences humans have created. They are the ultimate art form.

[@welfare_king]

Video games are the ultimate "creative diversion", but calling them the ultimate form of artistic expression is childish. They'll never have the longevity of a classical music piece or famous novel. They're too interconnected with the technology and techniques of whatever time they were developed. I would say the same with film, which myopic midwits also call "the ultimate artform".

[@TomGrubbe]

I remember playing the King's Quest video games back in the early 90s. They were the most immersive adventure games. Played them on a 4-color CGI monitor, had to create my own maps on a sheet of paper, swap 5 1/4" floppy disks when new scenes had to be loaded. Fun times.

[@Namelesswhirl]

Better pick up that rat, or you will lose 3 acts later...

[@senoculus3205]

God I love this fucking guy! I've heard it my whole life! "You're wasting your life playing games"..... "It's time to stop doing childish things and find a grown up hobby".... Seems like you can slay at life, have a wonderful family who loves you, be incredibly successful, and enjoy playing video games. He has. I have. You be you but be disciplined. Keep killing it Klavan!

[@nathanielscreativecollecti6392]

That was a fantastic take on video games. I have to agree. To go off a little more, the soundtracks are breathtaking. Journey for example had a soundtrack that brought my whole family in to watch the game. My brother was playing it but we were all engrossed in the story and the experience. Video games can be truly great art, most aren't but that's what makes a medium artful, the fact that it takes something special to reach it.

[@Tyler_W]

Video game sound tracks can easily rival film sound tracks. Classical compositions might not be as common anymore, but video games (and movies) have a ton of beautiful orchestral offerings, as well as other styles of music that are equally beautiful. Having started TLOU again, I'm reminded how much I love its simple, all accoustic guitar soundtrack.

[@venz8201]

"A theme for Kjell" from Battlefield 4 still brings powerful emotions for me

[@MrPerson61]

I'm glad you're open minded about video games, I'm not sure I agree with action games "not having a story" because the gameplay has a repetitive action in it though. For example, you said "the last of us doesn't have a story, its just killing zombies". Well for a game about killing Zombies it is one of the ONLY games to make me tear up in the first 30min

[@bumponalog5001]

Not only are they art, they are the ultimate art form because they incorporate every other type of art.

[@ic651]

You said what I wanted to say however let me add to this and this is the most important part: Video games allow you to be a very active participant in the story aka the protagonist and some even allow you to direct the direction of the story. Video games are the ultimate medium in the present day. In the near future we will probably have hologram gaming or something more similar to that of Ready Player One. That is next...

[@henrybierman8431]

Ya because you the buyer get to pretend that you are making the game

[@Ghost_Hybrid]

@@henrybierman8431 If you say so... What better way is there to spend relaxation/recovery time? Sitting in front of a TV watching ESPN drinking a beer? I became a military pilot and later an airline pilot because videogames kindled my imagination and passion as a kid. It was the spark that ignited my drive to study hard, succeed in life and build a career providing for my family. In a sandbox game like Satisfactory or Minecraft you quite literally make your own creations. You learn to manage resources, plan things out and set achievable goals. In story games, you are usually roleplaying a character - no different than reading a novel. It can open your mind to the life experiences of people different than you by walking in the footsteps, tragedies and victories of another for a time. In exploration / survival games like Subnautica or No Man's Sky, you can gain a deeper humility and appreciation for the simple things which sustain us on this tiny speck of a wet speck of dirt in a near /possibly infinite universe. In games like Kerbal Space Program, you learn real world engineering, project management and safety skills. In games like Outer Wilds you can gain perspective on our own mortality, find acceptance for the things we cannot change. You can find new love for those who have come before us, and cherish the beauty in each fleeting moment of life. Videogames can be a spectacular medium for expanding one's skillset, social skills and imagination. They teach you to think critically. What other medium opens these kind of doors?

[@ic651]

@@Ghost_Hybrid Well said

[@synnical77]

Strong disagree. They're an amalgamation of a lot of different forms of art but are not art themselves. I'd best compare it to a book of art, sonnets, and short stories. The book contains a lot of art. One would not describe the book as art. Flipping through the pages. Does not art make.

[@andysauro1500]

Video Games are so wide and varied in experience. It's not like TV/Movies where the experience is sitting and watching. Some games have stories. Some are just Mario jumping on Goombas. Some are interactive through dialogue options only. Some are played through a phone or VR Headset. Some are played by yourself while others are played by millions of people online. This conversation is more nuanced than most give credence. To blanket say all are or are not art doesn't give enough credit to how different every experience is.

[@fademario2000]

Honestly, the daily wire crew needs to make more video games let's plays. Seing them playing Mario Kart 64 was a delightful experience! The other members are starting to open themselfs towards them. Playing more family orientaded games like Mario Party could be a good place to start🙂

[@Robot-Overlord]

As a true gamer, I gotta say, this take didn't go hard enough. Don't need 13 minutes to say, "Yeah it's art, the title makes no dang sense."

[@TrippSC2]

There are video games that I've played that have been more thought provoking and had a greater emotional impact than any other art form. It's an extremely long time commitment to get to the good stuff, but Final Fantasy XIV is one of the only pieces of media that's actually moved me to tears.

[@kma3647]

As a lifelong video gamer myself, I love this commentary. In high school, I had an art history course and we looked at all sorts of famous paintings from the ancient to the Renaissance on up to abstract and modern. Cinema, movies, are paintings taken to the next level. They move and talk. You can express 1000x more in a good film than in a single image. Video games are that next level for movies. They're interactive movies. Instead of sitting back passively and consuming a story, you get to be part of crafting it. And I can speak for experience of just how immersive that experience can be. If you've ever spent a whole Saturday playing an MMO-RPG because you're engrossed in the virtual world, you know. And if they ever figure out how to fully integrate a sensory experience (touch, smell, etc) into gaming (yes, I know they're working on it), that will be the next revolution in art.

[@jameshurley776]

Videogames can have great storytelling and beautiful visual medium they are the new paintings look at Detroit become human and uncharted yakuza they have great stories and have deep impact and have artistic value

[@ThePreciseClimber]

That's probably the neatest part about the video game medium. There's a lot more freedom in what they can be compared to other media. I mean, there's a lot of different types of movies, comics, novels, etc. But, at the end of the day, they still have to be movies, comics & novels. A video game can be video game-y or it can be cinematic, OR it can even be novel-y (like the visual novels or old RPGs with lots of text).

[@bighands69]

Video games do not have good stories. What they should have is a story that brings players deeper into the game play. Some of the best games have the most simply stories that add to the game playing experience rather than trying to emulate movies or plays.

[@satisfiedconsumer649]

And in what way does value come from masquerading as an entirely different medium? Those games could be remade into movies, and nothing would be lost or even different. How is that art? It's completely replaceable pig feed. The problem with you people is that being distracted by shiny and wet visuals or being railroaded with large open spaces or filler dialogue is enough to satiate your lackluster taste. Salvador Dali can sit down and play Uncharted in order to relax and have some fun (the only purpose of games by the way), but if you ask him if he thinks it's art, he's going to laugh in your face.

[@dereklong2072]

I always think of games like ICO and Shadow of the Colossus as masterpiece works of art.

[@satisfiedconsumer649]

The only reason you think they're art is because you're doing mental gymnastics to make yourself think that the long hours you wasted of walking around and doing nothing (when a real developer would just skip you right to the action) clearly must hold some artistic value, I mean, how could someone as smart as you waste hours of your life and not have anything to show for it? Oh, I got it, "video games must be art then!"

[@optimusN64]

I do believe they can be forms of expression. When I was a kid my very first video game I ever played was banjo kazooie (developed by rare ware, and published by Nintendo, now Microsoft owns the IP.) and it was about honey bear named banjo and he teams up with a bird named kazooie, the story is an evil witch named gruntilda, kidnaps banjo’s little sister tooty, because she was jealous of her looks. Looking back on it now has an adult, the game was trying to teach kids the meaning of team work, like how banjo and kazooie must work together to collect golden puzzle pieces (called jiggies.) and magic music notes to open new worlds and move more freely around the witches lair. It asks big brothers how far are wiling to go to protect your little sister? It teaches kids not be jealous of someone else’s looks, and to be proud of what you look like. (Or you’ll get crushed by a boulder like grunty did lol.) A goofy kids game, but had meaning behind it. To this day it remains my all time favorite video game.

[@ficklebar]

Good to hear that _someone_ at Daily Wire enjoys video games. They’re so ubiquitous now that I’m surprised Ben could find so many hosts that _didn’t_ play them! If you want to sell them on “video games are art,” have them play Undertale. Even if you disagree with some of the messages, it’s hard to view it in any other light. Definitely one of my favorite games, in an era I would never have expected.

[@seismicrocket]

Most DW hosts play games. Aside from Andrew, Michael also plays GTA. But Andrew is a gamer, so I guess he's the one who appreciates video games more than the other 3. And he's also the best host.

[@grant2707]

Dark Souls alone is an art. Bioshock and Earthbound could be considered, like many others.

[@Madabird]

I'm always pleased with how thoughtful Klavan is. He gets it.

[@godmaxer]

Another thing that I love about video games that wasn't mentioned here is they create unique and interesting scenarios that drive creators imagination musically. Some of the best music I know comes from video like Halo and the donkey Kong series Or Mario. There are too many to name and when you combine music, story and game play it truly makes me feel something that I just don't feel in other forms of media

[@captainthunderbolt7541]

As a gamer, I don't think that games are inherently ART. The medium can be used to produce art, but such projects will never make for satisfying games. Art requires a strong voice for the artist in directing the user experience, whereas satisfying games require strong player agency, making the experience more player-directed. It is a product that has been made to be used. Of course, most games require artistic elements like visuals, music, and writing, but I really don't think that the core of a good game experience is ART. Walking simulators might be ART, but that is why they are not enjoyable to play.

[@davidgood840]

Gris, Arise: A Simple Story, and Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons are all great examples of storytelling through games that is unique to games as a medium. The game mechanics themselves help to tell the story in a way that isn't possible with other art forms, and the fact that games give the player space to interact with the ideas at a slower pace make it possible to have more than just an experience.

[@AshenOne94]

Did he seriously just say that The Last of Us doesn't have a good story......?

[@Hignewton1997]

He was on a roll until he said “the last of us” wasn’t a great story and was just killing zombies. Also, he needs to play red dead and horizon.

[@ericdanielhaley]

Agree with everything except the idea that The Last of Us isn’t a good story. It’s a better story, with more compelling characters and themes than 99% of movies I’ve seen.

[@mattr.9825]

I love when an “old man” gets it. Klavan often has a great ability to get to the root of the matter and bring out the full nuance and understanding.

[@pjmacphee]

Video games can be not only be visually beautiful, but beautiful to the ears. A great example of this is the music behind throughout the Final Fantasy series. Examples FF6: Dancing mad or Kefka theme, FF10: To Zanarkand, FF15: Somnus. All of which have orchestral versions.

[@weaniebeaniebur5725]

The metro series looks great and has a great story

[@LuxDragon]

I love Metro. All 3 of them.

[@weaniebeaniebur5725]

@@LuxDragon I loved the 1stbone best for the story but do have a great time with all of them even still. I replay them all from time to time.

[@satisfiedconsumer649]

Then why don't you go watch a movie instead? Because the gameplay is clearly not good enough to warrant a mention? There's 9 million shooters on the market, but the fact that this one is more like a movie makes it better game? That's quite the contradiction, don't you think? It might as well be changed into a puzzle game or a RTS for how inconsequential the gameplay is.

[@CraigJS91]

Agree strongly with everything here except his opinion on stories in video games. Specifically that The Last of Us is about killing zombies, on the contrary, the gameplay of that particular game is just a vehicle to develop the plot with in game dialogue and to drive you to be next cutscene. It is a game about grief, love, and innocence. If you boil it down it is a heart wrenching take on the trolley problem, which is why the ending is divise. I think this is why so far the HBO adaptation is so good while sticking so close to the source material, because this is a game that is held up by it's narrative, not it's gameplay.

[@clark2109]

It's like everything else. Cardi B and Bach are both music. Citizen Kane and Fast + Furious are both movies. Jackson Pollock and Vermeer are both painters. The Last of Us and Candy Crush are both video games. There's a huge range, as with all art.

[@satisfiedconsumer649]

Neither Candy Crush nor The Last of Us is art. Candy Crush is like a game of football or a game of monopoly. Fun entertainment made for wasting time. There's nothing artistic about it, it doesn't require thought, it didn't take effort to make, and you're not a better or more cultured person for having played it. Same thing with The Last of Us, which is more focused on being a movie then a game. Now tell me, how am I supposed to take seriously, a piece of art that doesn't even want to be itself?

[@clark2109]

@@satisfiedconsumer649 I can follow the candy crush argument, but LOU isn't art because its too much like a movie? I don't even understand that argument. It has a story with heart, and artistic style. It has the potential to provoke real thougt and emotion. That's like saying Vermeer isn't art because it's trying too hard to be a photograph. Or Shakespeare's plays aren't art because they're mostly just poetry.

[@Luigi_Bro64]

Video games are in my vision. What a painting, a book, and a movie are and so much more. Never has mankind ever experienced a world, by interacting, and learning from it. That is where The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild changed my life. Never had I’d been engaged with a new world, through its story and gameplay, that had changed the way I see myself and the world around me. Andrew truly said it beautifully.

[@erhardtharris8727]

Klavan playing God of War video game sounds like a fun thing to watch.

[@speedude0164]

One game I recently played that had quite the impact on me is Outer Wilds, a story focused space exploration game by Mobius Digital. It involves flying to multiple planets and exploring the ruins of an ancient race to solve a mystery they were searching. Each planet has it's own unique mechanic you constantly have to be aware of, so exploring them never gets dull. The story peaks your interest from the beginning, especially in relation to certain events happening in the solar system, and leads you to several different locations on each planet to learn more. Where progression in most games comes from reaching the end of a level or finding a certain item, progression in Outer Wilds comes from gaining more knowledge. Every location in the game is open from the beginning, but in many cases you'll need to explore elsewhere to find out how to get inside. Once you achieve your end goal after learning the whole story, the payoff is truly beautiful. This game, and it's DLC Echoes of the Eye, are a must for anyone who enjoys story focused games.

[@Brockahara]

DW needs a gaming channel

[@tubelarr]

Yes, that is a great idea. Can you think of any gamers they could hire to run it?

[@colewagner3435]

I’ll help! Years of gaming experience across most systems! I will take that job immediately!

[@zeehero7280]

Video game stories aren't at odds with the gameplay in truly well designed games. I highly reccomend Dragons Dogma (Dragons Dogma 2, basically a much improved version comes out this month) or perhaps a JRPG like Tales of Symphonia.

[@wrenchguy2937]

It is 10000% a form of art and also honestly gives you a great sense of community. People who like the same type of games u do and allowing you to express that passion. Thank you Andrew!

[@alondite215]

Games are not art, they're games, and games are better than art.

[@aleisterleopold6229]

The different ways people play video games is their own personal story for each player

[@ルイ-f4g]

I've said it in another comment, but hate on video games stems for overall justified disdain for the average gamer. People who claim video games are an art form usually don't appreciate it the way you do, they are mainly stating that to justify wasting their time for 7 hours a day. The problem with gamers is that they actually claim that game stories are profound, which automatically discredits their argument to anyone who has ever read a classic novel. The problem with the games themselves is that 1) they are made to be addictive and 2) they are too long. There's no reason for most movies to last longer that 2 hours, and there's no reason to spend more than 20 hours on a single game. Nobody who's played Overwatch for 200 hours has done it out of appreciation for the art.

[@alexanderflores-MazterDestiny]

so there is no reason to read the divine comedy, or game of thhrones, or the whole saga of lord of the rings. they are tooooo long for to be art right? nd addivtive as an excuse? some people literally doesnt eat when writting their shit or composing their music, in that case that shouldnt be consider art.

[@loveisthemostpowerfulforce1397]

Why wouldn't you want a game where it takes 20 hours of gameplay to finish the story? If you play 1 hour a day you will finish the game in 20 days.

[@d1grizz]

Deep, but I think of all the wisdom I have heard from you, this might be a example where you might not be seeing what your talking about realistically. You have a busy life and self discipline, success and play games in moderation, but I believe the vast bulk of gamers have not been instilled with the character to prioritize gaming where it should be in life and it becomes an destructive obsession a bad as alcohol or drugs. Maybe not as physically destructive but every bit as life sucking. The culture of gaming is also very debased. It is far more often than not a destructive activity mentally, socially, and morally. It is a very permissive, amoral environment. You have found some redeeming value in gaming and there is some, but in the big picture its worldwide impact is hugely destructive to our culture, morality, youth, and health, both physical and mental.

[@discerningfreedom4124]

As someone who has been a gamer ever since I knew what a video game was and has worked in the game industry for about 15 years, Andrew's thoughts on this are very similar to my own. To boil it down as concisely as possible to the question, "Are video games an art form?" My answer is a profound, "It depends"

[@Anthony-dj4nd]

It can be art or just fun and entertainment. People need to stop trying to tell others what to do and what to think. Nobody wants to work and play.

[@discerningfreedom4124]

@@Anthony-dj4nd I fully agree! Let's not overwhelm ourselves with questions when we can just enjoy a game and come to whatever conclusions we happen upon. It can be fun to have discussions about it, but only if it's to understand the person we're having the discussion with.

[@Bearded_Bream]

It's so refreshing to hear a conservative man over the age of 35 talking about video games in a positive light without trying to crap all over it and the people who enjoy playing them. I so enjoyed and appreciated listing to this take.

[@tombadil64]

Someone should have klavan play and learn about the lore and story of the Souls series, elden ring, and bloodborne. Some of the most beautiful, fulfilling, and poignant stories that I've had the pleasure of experiencing. Those are absolutely art and have saved me multiple times. (that's not a phrase that I use lightly).

[@whenisdinner2137]

One of the things I like the most about video games is environmental story telling. If you can tell what happened in an area without needing a word of dialogue. You have succeded in immersing me.

[@Madkingstoe]

Andrew, I'd love to hear your opinion on Tabletop Roleplaying games. Do you think they're a good form of creative storytelling and a healthy social activity, or do you feel there is something missing from the lives of people who are drawn to tabletop roleplaying games?

[@aaronskuse2207]

Video games are more qualified to be art than “post modern” artists who sell a canvas painted a solid color. Or claim a pile of literal trash is art and sell it for a million dollars.

[@zhaloofficial2686]

Its about time someone on the daily wire gives videogames the credit they deserve

[@JumpmanKain]

Thank you for this. I'm a DW subscriber, lifelong conservative, successful, a single father, and I LOVE video games. I was introduced at a very early age by my grandmother who bought me an Intellivision and would play with me on weekends. I get so, so tired of hearing conservative commentators deride video games as childish and a waste of time. That would be like saying books are childish and a waste of time because trashy romance novels exist. You're ignoring the massive variety of content available in the medium. There are some games that are garbage, there are some games that are just mindless fun, and there are some games that rival the best stories you find in books or movies. Final Fantasy VI, Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, the Silent Hill series (particularly the payoff at the end of the 1 > 3 > Shattered Memories storyline), Ghost of Tsushima, Hellblade, Transistor, Dragon Quest VII, Dragon Quest XI. These are games that have deep stories and characters that have an emotional impact on players. The thing that bugs me most about influential conservatives trashing video games is that one of the most important demographics conservatives need to win over is young people, and you do that through culture. Just writing games off as childish and insulting people who play them is so incredibly counter-productive, particularly when a very large number of gamers are sick and tired of the woke incursion on their hobby.

[@noskalborg723]

Confession: Minecraft (specifically the first parts of the modded series where X33N and CaptainSparklez did "SevTech Ages", and my experience with survival multiplayer), helped me empathize with the people in Genesis, especially Abraham. Video games can open your mind, or shut it down.

[@Crichjo32]

The game Bloodborne is a greater work of art than most other modern art. But the game is like a collection of smaller works of art within it, such as the impeccable world design, the lore, the themes, the creature designs, and of course the music. They all come together to create something truly special.

[@ekatrinya]

This was an absolute delight to listen to, thanks Klavan

[@shaifs5072]

Gaming has enriched my mind and heart more than anything else. By that I mean it was a starting point that inspired me to learn. Video games introduced me to my love of Psychology; especially Carl Jung, discover and learn about many world religions and ancient mythology. It helped teach me morals. I remember thinking “this is interesting, I want to know more” so I followed the bread crumbs and learned about several cultural things video games hinted at. One lesson from video games that I highly value is that even if you have good intentions, your actions can have negative consequences. Unlike society that says “it’s not your fault, you don’t have to do anything” video games told me that the righteous thing to do was to take responsibility for something you helped create. I think it’s exaggerated but I still found value in it, and it was video games that helped me discover that belief.

[@kshatrapavan]

Ghost of Tsushima is one of the most stunningly beautiful things I've seen. It is absolutely a piece of art!

[@lordmcsmith]

I think it can be really easy to overlook the extra narrative layer that comes from being able to interact with the world and characters in a video game. I'm reminded of an article I read in a literature magazine about a guy who explored the "games as art" question by playing minecraft for a few hours with a friend. He talked about how, even though there was no storyline in the game per-se, the decisions he made and the resulting events that unfolded were enough to give the game world narrative significance. And I think that also explains why games with bad stories get more of a pass than movies or books with bad stories. The self-contained story in a video game is only one dimension of the user experience, on par with or even secondary to the gameplay. And if you can get the gameplay right, you can still invest the player with a sense of immersion strong enough that even a bad story won't be quite enough to ruin it.

[@CaseyQ]

With this and recent videos, I didn't think Klaven would end up being the youthful video game nerd that he is. His entertainment value has gone up significantly recently

[@mikevallone8619]

After listening to klavan for a few years, as well as all the rest of the guys, he's absolutely the youngest at heart. By a longshot.

[@fullmetalandtheflame438]

Thank you for this Andrew. One of the very few good, intelligent takes on video games I’ve seen. I absolutely hate the undeserved bad reputation that video games get from so many people. How many times have we heard someone say, “People should be doing *fill in the blank* instead of wasting their time playing video games”. No one ever says “wasting their time reading” or “painting” or some other form of entertainment. It makes absolutely no sense. Video games are absolutely an art form in many different ways - storytelling, visual art, music, etc. They’re works of art and they’re certainly not a “waste of time”.

[@jamesofhoenn4790]

If he enjoys puzzles, I wouldn’t be surprised if he enjoyed the Professor Layton series. A cute little story with clever puzzles and a nice and sophisticated game style

[@ProfDragonite]

I had a discussion with my wife (an historian working on her PhD) about this; specifically, whether or not "high art" still exists in the modern age. I told her about my experience with Xenoblade Chronicles (my absolute favorite game of all time); how the narrative, world, and characters were crafted with care and forethought, to weave a grand narrative about fate and how to defy it. She had to admit that games like Xenoblade, games that can elevate our understanding of ourselves, can be argued to be the modern version of high art. My lifelong enjoyment of video games, over multiple consoles and genres, is well known to everyone who knows me; I'm even working on a physical archive for preservation, and for my children. I fully believe that the ONE medium that actively lets you step into the imagination of the creator, to interact and experience their creation as a part of it, can create some of the greatest art of our time.

[@matthewt8214]

Wow Year Walk, Limbo and Braid. Great taste in games. Definitely works of art!

[@PakRoc-dev]

And, interestingly, only take a small amount of your time to experience relative to big-budget AAA games.

[@slobiden.2593]

I learnt a lot of my early philosophies from video games. The Metal Gear Solid series for instance. 2 and 3 especially. Devil May Cry 3 and 5 are brilliant. Half human half demon twins. Evil twin sacrifices his humanity for demonic power, but the good brother believes it’s his humanity that matters more. Basic, yes. But brilliantly executed. 3 and 5 has the twin brother as the villain, the other 3 games have generic villains. The Legacy of Kain series. Has 10/10 story and dialogue. Worth watching on KZbin. I’ve played FF7,8,9,10 and would recommend all of them. Crisis core the FF7 prequel is amazing. One of the best things to happen recently is the creation of charismatic main characters as opposed to edgy grumpy lone wolf characters. Zack Fair, Nathan Drake, Dante. The golden era of gaming was definitely the PS2.

[@Warhorse556]

I desperately want to hear Klavan's reaction to the MGS2 A.I. conversation.

[@fanoflego456]

Bioshock is a game you should check out! It is a beautiful work of art.

[@satisfiedconsumer649]

Bioshock is politics 101 for Scott Pilgrim fans.

[@nundulan]

​@@satisfiedconsumer649Deus Ex is better sure, but it's still a work of art.

[@silverwings21]

4:37 So when Groundskeeper Willie from "The Simpsons" couldn't possibly shoot a gun because he messed up his fingers from playing too much Space Invaders, that was actually a true thing?

[@dark1021]

Thanks for this. You are amazing and it's nice to see older people especially not constantly slamming games. Moderation is key but yes games are art and some of the best people I've met in my life have been because of games.

[@Hickfury]

A wonderfully different take to video games than I am used to. I know stories in video games will always struggle to balance gameplay and story. I do think a great story or at least a well built world enhances gameplay to some extent cause it gives you a sense of motivation to find the answers to mysteries of this new world. What Klavan speaks of is mechanical immersion which is not talked about at all vs normal immersion that world design and story provide. Skyrim is great example of a game masterful at world design immersion because you can go anywhere and find various adventures to take part in. While a game like the Last of Us uses story driven immersion to motivate you since the gameplay is not all that fresh, though not terrible by any sense. There is a reason people seem to really like this games that you just walk around in a beautiful world with no combat or quests. You just engross yourself in the world and atmosphere. Those games are not my cup of tea, but I totally get why they are liked.

[@emeryweaver3796]

I'd say yeah pretty obviously without question. The only people who don't think so are people who have no idea how deep video games get, because they never play them for one.. and they more than often have a bias toward them regardless. Not all games are great especially in the modern industry. But there are some games that have amazing stories and beautifully crafted worlds. Some of them come from books, and they have been adapting TV shows to them, inaccurately an awfully unfortunately due to the modern political climate and check boxes.

[@satisfiedconsumer649]

I've played hundreds of games. Probably 10 of them could vaguely be considered art, probably because 10 of them could even be considered video games. The other few hundred were movies with moveable props and bad writing. Their gameplay was not unique, smart, nor important, you could swap entire genres and the lessons would still be the same.

[@emeryweaver3796]

@@satisfiedconsumer649 I see, it's all a matter of opinion on the individual level. I've played hundreds as well, probably even over 1,000. I definitely acknowledged that more modern games aren't so great for various reasons be it greed or lack of talent. Anyway thing is I'm not sure what games you're playing but there are so many games out there with great stories ideas or innovations and even all three. Just about every game is technically art even if it's not good. The same way someone like me, having won quite a few very big art contests, can't just stamp out kindergarteners doing finger painting. Just because mine's infinitely better doesn't mean that there's isn't art. Not every artist or developer in this matter is going to be able to create a masterpiece, but there will always be a few workers on the project putting their heart and soul into it. I feel like I could say a lot more on the subject but I don't really feel like there's a need to. I guess sometimes the art comes from our own ability to be immersed creatively, and imaginatively in an interactive world as far as the movie games you described. I know heavy rain was something like that soma was an interactive type of movie game even The last of Us part One was technically a movie that you could play, all of which are widely loved and some of which were game of the year.

[@LilyGrace1990]

I love video games. They are by far my favorite art form. I've actually been making a game of my own, it's just an Ace Attorney fan game, and part of the fun of it is trying to predict what players will do. Gameplay itself can move the story forward in incredible ways, from the button mashing at the end of the first chapter of Your Turn to Die to literally deleting files out of the game folder in Doki Doki Literature Club. You can be so creative with games. I started out as a writer, and the medium of games has opened up my ability to tell an engaging story in ways movies or books never could. Games are absolutely high art and they're important.

[@anti-antifamclovin7627]

The best writers work in the gaming industry💯

[@PakRoc-dev]

And the best musicians.

[@CloneTrooper02]

@@PakRoc-dev marty odonnell, koji kondo and red dead redemption 1 and 2

[@satisfiedconsumer649]

Actually, the best writers make books. Surprising, don't you think? Any writer who takes his job seriously is not going to lend his talents to an "artform" that has no use for it. Unless you're talking about Deus Ex, which I know you're not, video game stories are completely replaceable, not to mention unnecessary 90 percent of the time.

[@jimthar17]

I'm 46 years old. I'm a gamer and I listen to heavy metal. Been gaming since the Pac Man era and listening to metal since about 1988. I've never killed anyone, never shot up a school, never murdered my parents, etc. That right there should tell you their "theories" on those two subjects is bullshit.

[@rider3859]

Video games definitely qualify as art.

[@mickeymickey9914]

Who cares? A banana nailed to a wall is called art.

[@aclaylambisabirdman6324]

Much love, Andrew! Great take. I've been playing video games most of my life, and I am a film school graduate before going into Tech; both Film & Video Games have brought so much love, & peace into my life. It's hard for me when people lump them all together (as if Film is to be judged by every single film, everyone made as one item). I have seen worlds that only others have ever known, shared adventures with people I am yet to meet, and experienced lives I would have never known. Grateful to be alive in this age!

[@ourochroma]

All video games may be art, but not all art is meaningful. One of the most artful meaningful games I’ve played is Journey. Breathtaking, beautiful, made with love. Klavan should try it😊😏

[@sonofage]

When i lost my job during the start of the pandemic , I started playing "video games" as a way to cope with not doing much since in my country, there was a mandatory lockdown and I believe, it was 2 months of Working from home and basically, a freeze in hiring new staff for most companies. Video games like everything else should be in moderation, plus when you're working, playing games gets less and less due to work and other responsibilities. There are always going to be those types that play games or some other activity that would take it to a crazy level, like get influenced to shoot up a school or something but that doesn't mean, everyone is like that. My sister plays GTA 4/5 to release stress from work where she shoots up a block and she also plays sims. I like playing COD and get myself served up by a 14-year old that calls me noob and a virgin. he knows me too well haha. I think games in itself isn't bad at all. To me, the politicians used it as a talking point because they want to win using fear tactics OR, they have zero clue on why people choose to play games. Man, better play games than drugs. the US alone has a huge problem with drugs but if people were just addicted to gaming, there would just be slightly to massively overweight people with a zest for drinking "energy drinks". better than drugs. lol

[@thejamabides]

Shadow of the Colossus is Art.

[@satisfiedconsumer649]

Wrong, Shadow of the Colossus is a movie, with lots of slow walking in empty spaces where nothing happens, all leading up to brief moments where you get to press buttons to do cool things, despite the fact that the game will always play out and end the same way.

[@Just_a_ghost713]

I remember my nan saying the actions in your gameplay is a reflection of who you are (my nan used to play games with me). She watched me played dishonored and noticed me killing just the main targets except daud, she asked me why I spared him and I said "he just a knife for the person who picked it up", she rebuttal with "aren't you doing the same thing from the people that gave you those orders", I told her "but he isn't anyone's target, no one gave me the objective to kill him, this one is simply my own and I can choose to take him or spare him, so I spared him because he wasn't truly responsible for the empress death, he just the knife". My nan was shocked and proud of me. I guess she knew what the art of video games are, ashamed she died years before red dead 2 because she would have loved to watch me play it.

[@gabriellashdiaz7007]

Wow. I’m blown away. Such a beautiful take on culture and an amazing use of words

[@joshcowart2446]

My dad would be 72 today and he passed away a couple of years ago. He had a successful business. He loaded enough ammo for several of us and remodeled a building to move his business into. Yet he always found at least an hour to get some gaming in. He played Nintendo with us when we were young and they was about it. But then I had left my ps3 or ps2 there and he played call of duty or maybe Medal of Honor. It was an early ww2 one. Anyway after that he bought his own and then got a ps4. He’s very strategic minded. He eventually got into open world games. He got into it hardcore. He abandoned consoles and spent thousands on a custom gaming computer with an Xbox controller. He started downloading mods. He preferred fallout 4. So I’d say you’re never too old to play video games. The funniest thing though. I told him to try online and he did with one of the battlefields I believe. He doesn’t have great internet and the frantic nature of it isn’t really what he likes so he didn’t last long . However I asked him about it and he told me about why he didn’t like it. Then the last thing he said was “and then some little kid called me a faggot”. He came from rural Texas with a military father. Men don’t curse in public or around women and children. So this really threw him for a loop and so he decided he was done with online gaming.