Are Waterproof-Breathable Jackets a Lie? w/ Alex Lauver (Outdoor Research)

[@billb5732]

Nice discussion. Yes, diametrically opposed. OR's homegrown WPBs are known for being overwhelmed in heavy rain, whether Helium or AscentShell. Foray (GoreTex PacLite) is waterproof, not highly breathable, but has the best ventilation in a jacket (although ponchos are better when wearing a pack). Alex discusses offering different products for different use cases, but if I am packing for a trip, then I usually have to pick ONE rather than carry a closet full of options with me. If you get your gear for free then, sure, get an AscentShell AND a GoreTex AND a poncho AND a Ferrosi. But will you carry all of them? Wind garments are easier to choose: Ferrosi stands out as THE MOST BREATHABLE soft shell. It's really fantastic stuff. It is extremely comfortable in all conditions up to light rain, but is not at all waterproof in heavier rain. I find it useful in a broader range of conditions than a grid fleece, although it weighs about the same. ActiveIce is also fantastically comfortable; as close to naked as is legal in most places. Nice stuff. It would be very helpful if OR would PUBLISH MVTR tests for both rain and wind layers. It's annoying to have to send them to a lab to get the truth about their gear.

[@jonathanbutton1]

This was probably one of the best podcast I have every listened too. He was extremely knowledgeable and his analogies were top notch. It was fantastic.

[@Kvothe3]

Interview tip: instead of asking for the guest's favorite X... Ask for an X that they really like or comes to mind as being great. The mental pressure to pick the favorite an be tough on the spot if the guest doesn't have much media training. Love these episodes!

[@billb5732]

Outdoor Research has a lot of great products. Ferrosi is one of the best. Most breathable (high-MVTR) soft shell fabric in the business. ActiveIce is another; closest thing to naked that is legal.

[@viscachaventures390]

Great episode. After 20 years in the outdoor industry this is the kind of explanation and detail the public needs to hear. Now I’m going to wash my shell 🧼

[@Ryan-1337]

Dude who knew this would be one of my favorite podcasts. I love nerding out on the technical details of backpacking gear, of any gear dor that matter. You've got something here with this format. Keep it up and do a review on some of the new exped ultra mats on your main channel!

[@lakorai2]

Yes. Breathable fabrics have dwr coatings that have to be reapplied yearly or semi yearly

[@ManivanAdventures]

Been loving these pods, Justin! Keep it up! 🤙🏼

[@jerrybobteasdale]

Very good interview.

[@Davidadventures]

Any comment on Arc'tyrex, like the Beta LT?

[@PT_Hikes]

This was a very interesting conversation about a very confusing topic. Thanks!

[@willek1335]

👍 He's good at simplify complex things. He mentioned that he value breathable fabric, that comes with a long terms cost, in his Seattle environment. He also mentioned he'd choose different qualities is if was far into the wilderness for a long time. I curious what he'd focus on there and why. 🤔 hm

[@frstesiste7670]

Interesting conversation!

[@ddff5242]

Curious about the legality of breathability and waterproof ratings. Enlightened equipment used to have a rain jacket that nearly doubled even the most high end goretex jackets. Clearly, i dont think a small cottage company has proprietary fabric that the multi billion dollar companies dont have. Is there a standard,(kind of like the new r value for sleeping pads) that waterprrof breathable fabrics use?

[@JesusRodriguez-mu4hg]

Hydrostatic head rating. Also, like the OR dude said, it's actually super easy to make a waterproof jacket: Wrap a trash bag around yourself. The actual problem is breathability. If you wrap yourself in plastic that it's simply impossible to water to penetrate, you are going to be sweating inside like crazy because your heat and humidity have nowhere to go. The holy grail would be a material that lets out vapor and doesnt let water or humidity in. That is accomplished partially so far, but not to a great degree. Goretex for example is leading tech in the industry, but it still lacks breathability. It is very waterproof though.

[@gearprioritypodcast]

Gore-tex has been relying on marketing over innovation over the years. There have been many fabrics that outperform Gore-tex in most applications, like eVent and Neoshell. Most people haven't heard of these membranes though because they didn't have the marketing budget behind them that Gore does. The tests are standardized for measuring breathability, but that requires the testers to follow the protocol. EE and companies like Zpacks aren't using proprietary fabric for their jackets that have way better ratings than Gore-tex, they are sourcing that material from mills that have done the innovation legwork. The likely trade-off is durability. The Zpacks vertice is an ultralight jacket with 56000/20000 ratings, but I wouldn't take it on an expedition where I am wearing it every day.

[@jays7318]

​@@gearprioritypodcast Great explanation!

[@higler.]

this is some top notch nerd talk

[@leeanderson5955]

Lloyd, hemp, try to find ways to make outdoor clothing out of hemp.

[@ryaniam22]

Its almost hillarious goretex (and any of these membranes) is only good in the exact opposite conditions it is marketet for. It is really only good when it is -5 celcius or colder. -10 celcius even better. In Canada goretex is a seriously good piece of kit in WINTER. Anytime its near zero celcius or warmer I'd foresure rather wear a poncho.