Are we going back to PHP with fullstack JavaScript?

[@skodateam]

I learnt jQuery, then BackboneJS, then AngularJS, then a bit of React and at that point I said, enough f*ck this sh*t. Not interested in learning a new JS framework every 5 minutes. Back to PHP/MySql with good old plain JS. There is more to life than learning about new JS frameworks every day...

[@rerere1569]

I mean, it's been pretty much only react for like 8-9 years. Iterations of PHP frameworks are pretty much the same, there is always something new that's going on and I think always learning is a trait that developers should have. I get the frustration, but ultimately you don't need to "learn every new framework", but instead "learn programming" and "learn basic principles" as you may quickly discover that most of "new frameworks" use the same exact ideas with slightly different taste to it and an additional plot

[@Personal-M.I.S.]

I've always felt that the least amount of javascript to get the job done, was the best amount of javascript 😉

But the thing is next js is the new php and it’s gonna dominate the web development next 20 years , so if you wanna make money then take your sit 😂

[@calebadeleye]

i thought i was the only one...the only thing is you may not be able to get Jobs

[@okonkwo.ify18]

I know php, jquery bootstrap, but all these dev jobs started requesting for more and then I reached a point and also said fuck it

[@ahmad-murery]

I think we over complicated web development in the past few years. Thanks Max!

[@MrAverageViewer]

Man, you said it right!! Web development has been over-engineered!!

[@pmrebel2733]

Am happy everyone is seeing php was simple, JavaScript ought to simpler since backend js came after PHP but instead it became too complicated. And funny enough people take it's complexity as a positive thing and look down on the simplicity of PHP. I first started with node but once I learned PHP, it was hard to think of building apps with node because I had less headaches.

[@CristianKirk]

Web development got overcomplicated simply because programmers are not designers. Most programmers will do anything in their power to produce something quick before actually trying to develop something from scratch, specially if there's graphic design involved, which is what the web is mostly, if not all, made of.

[@ahmad-murery]

@@CristianKirk I can't argue with the graphic design part. also, I know that using known frameworks make it easy for programmers to catch up on other's projects in a short period of time. but, I think these frameworks are getting bigger and heavier overtime for acceptable reasons (fixing vulnerabilities, adding new features, keeping backward compatibility), this can be an overkill for small and maybe medium websites/apps which in return will drive some programmers to develop their own simplified frameworks so that will not start from scratch in future projects Finally, I'm not totally against these new dev complexity rather than being wise using it. Thanks all for your feedbacks

[@chauchau0825]

The same thing over complicated the backend development by turning every system into microservices. Most "websites" don't need to be thick client SPA . It is the same old skilled incompetence issues in human history. “If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.” - Abraham Maslow

[@xcrap]

As a web developer, I was using PHP then, still using PHP now. PHP/MariaDB/Vanilla JS and yes, Tailwind.

[@mikekellytech]

Haha same. Good old lamp stack

[@shyguy4129]

And i thought am a weird developer for using this stack 😅

[@LetterlessAlphabet]

My brutha. Except I used mysql mostly.

[@abangjimmy]

Are you using PHP natively? Or use some framework?

[@carloscapitinealexandremut8898]

like me bro, i use Javascript for ajax and some necessary events

[@windowsxp1991]

Php is making a massive comeback thanks to Laravel! MARK!

[@hermes6910]

Symfony > Laravel

[@SXZ-dev]

@@hermes6910 No

[@anonymouscitizen4235]

Can we combine php with react or is it an overkill ??

[@hermes6910]

@@anonymouscitizen4235 For most use cases (especially on its own), React is just overenginering your project. But there's nothing wrong with using it with php.

[@ajzack983]

​@@anonymouscitizen4235 ofc , try laravel with ineritia and react

[@redmundperrz7234]

Php is built like a tank . Never gets old plain and simple no drama unlike the rest is a brittle due to constant changes that sometimes my 3yrs code wont work forces me to update

[@Khaos98]

totally agree, i migrated applications made with php 5.3 to 8.2 with very low effort

[@bluefrancis14]

Agree! I am old. I want stability. I don't have time experimenting some code tagged as canary or flavor of the minute framework.

[@manfroma]

PHP GOAT

[@jenniferjohnston9236]

Just use whatever you're comfortable with and what best suits the project.

[@zen_nabu]

How dare you use reason! Bah!

[@HammadKhanYT]

Excellent comment. Use what works for you, do not look at pro and cons and make things complicated.

[@hadhoda12345]

I know this is not the main topic of this video, but as a PHP developer for over 11 years, I got real tired real quick from people claiming that PHP is dead when in all reality I almost never felt I needed to learn another back-end language because the job opportunities revolving around PHP (Laravel, CodeIgniter, WordPress, Drupal, etc.) are as broad as ever (knock on wood). This is not to say that other languages are better/worse. I like to tinker with full-stack JS for personal projects, just to keep myself involved with what's new. So if you are a junior PHP developer, don't feel discouraged. PHP is an excellent tool to build formidable and scalable websites, there is no concrete evidence that it is going away anytime soon.

[@richieonganda3267]

PHP is the OG web language. All the others are just trends that will come and go. The ones that will forever persist are PHP and Ruby on Rails

[@hadhoda12345]

​@@richieonganda3267 I wouldn't call other languages trends, but I am confident PHP is here to stay.

[@tsolanoff]

@@richieonganda3267I hope it was a joke. Backend built with javashit or php is not backend.

[@criticalthinker1123]

You're talking about legacy system

[@zsoltsz2323]

​@tsolanoff it's OK... everyone starts a a fanboy, emotions all over the place, protecting the tools that you happen to know. In a decade or two, you'll relax.

[@BartoloIlliano]

As a developer with 20 years of daily experience, I think that Php is still the best way to develop web applications today

[@souravd2661]

I also come from the generation where C (Turbo C) was my first ever language that I learned, and PHP was the first language with which I started my IT career and passion for web application development...

[@James-l7n3n]

Turbo C++ for me. I remember when JavaScript first came out and everyone was confused and thought they needed Java applets. What what? And it went from Perl CGI scripts which got owned all the time to PHP and everything started to improve slowly from there, and it's still just fine. PHP 8 is awesome and so is Laravel. If you must JavaScript, try Vue first or even htmx and some plain JS, don't overcomplicate it to start with.

[@corymoore5093]

Laravel Livewire runs client side and lets you build reusable components just like a React based app. I think PHP has better built in integration with relational databases.

[@jmon24ify]

Yes you can do a lot with livewire but at some point you will need alpine js.

[@kaf83]

Livewire is amazing, but I don't like to think of it as running client side. More like it allows you to bind back end properties and functions to front end objects and events. To me it still keeps a good cognitive separation between what runs on server and what runs on client.

[@yungifez]

The TALL stack is really good to work with​@@jmon24ify

[@yungifez]

​@@kaf83yes Livewire acts more of like an api rather than for interactivity But combining it with alpine makes things so good

[@Nodsaibot]

laravel is an over engineered symfony wrapper

[@prashantsinha9118]

Finally as an php developer I got confidence to stand in front js framework developer.

[@BhupinderSingh-td3py]

PHP, Bootstrap and JavaScript are enough to build a modern website. The beauty about PHP is its function library. Secondly it has been around for so long, you get a lot of support on internet. It's a joy to work with PHP.

[@carloscapitinealexandremut8898]

Bro, i use php in almost all my web app projects, i use Laravel and i also add javascript to Handle AJAX requests, and is easy for me to work with theses technologies. PHP never dies.

[@swojnowski453]

definitely!

[@mikekellytech]

I started with PHP years ago like you (fellow old man) and I still use it today. The new languages are great, but I've never needed to move. I built and run a successful saas on PHP and it's just fine. I'm not saying it's the best, but it just works. And it's been around forever, which means it's supported and documation is everywhere

[@gichumwangi8742]

As long as your web app/website works.. the end user does not really care what is working in the backend.

[@abangjimmy]

I am so happy to know you've succeed ran your SaaS with PHP. While me, as a PHP dev still confuse what stack should I choose to build the SaaS. Because there are so many thoughts to not make PHP to develop SaaS. I feel excited!

[@TwoThreeFour]

Perl, ASP, and Cold Fusion were my first tools to build dynamic websites. But, yeah, then PHP took over websites development like a huge storm

[@Shoto5536]

I recommend the AdonisJS framework. You can create server-side rendered web apps or APIs. You can use their own template engine like blade. You can use React, Vue, Svelte or Solid with InertiaJS. And maybe soon a TSX template engine too. Those who like Laravel will certainly enjoy working with AdonisJS. This framework is really fantastic but needs more support.

[@vinniv6806]

It's crap, very weak production-wise.

[@birarakisarap]

Hi Maximillian! I am so glad to see you & hear your familiar voice here again. You are hands down best instructor I have seen in years alongside Corey Schafer.

[@Rtzoor]

i am currentyl using PHP at work and building a personal project with nextjs 14 RSC and server actions, and its very similar but entirely different. i feel the new stack is much more streamlined. with PHP you need to setup a lot of stuff to get a proper experience of developing server driven web apps, but after going through with it, for me at least, the result is very similar to the new stack. you render the server side of the app, then do client interactions and client-server interactions. the methods are similar, but new its all integrated and its much faster to start with. but comapred with PHP using a framework like Laravel, the experience is so much the same it doesnt really matter any more. its a qeustion of what is more convenient for you and which ecosystem you prefer.

[@lucianboboc7513]

Laravel is miles ahead any JS framework. You should make a Laravel web apps + APIs course 😅

[@bvedantcodes]

He actually did; in fact it was one of his first courses around 8 years ago. But he took it down, probably because it became outdated.

[@realVvD]

Agreed. There are so many Laravel jobs in my area.

[@Geodamist]

Agreed, I dove straight into Laravel without any prior coding experience. I simply wanted to build something for the company I was working for at the time. Oh boy, did it introduce me to many concepts I wouldn't have been aware of if I had just learned PHP first. Now, I can understand almost any framework since most share similarities once I've spent a few days reading the language syntax. The documentation is excellent, the ecosystem offers almost anything anyone can imagine to build, and the community around it is pretty strong. I use it as an API with React or Next.js for the frontend

[@jf3594]

I moved from Laravel to nestjs+typescript. If you read their docs you'll understand how its easy to follow clean architecture there, do microservice setups etc.

[@cheapchap9610]

​@@realVvDI have a friend who badly wants a job to support his family

[@tanzimibthesam5861]

Very good video if you use Livewire you can use a same language for frontend and backend with sprinkles of AlpineJS. Yes what you have said is correct assuming most developers are frontend end developers they can ship apps knowing only frontend. Inertia with Laravel is great too which supports SSR out of the box.

[@todormarkov2860]

What about Inertia (SSR) and its impact on SEО?

[@science_trip]

@@todormarkov2860 with livewire you don't need inertia for SEO. It worked perfectly fine

[@abelenocrodriguez]

I have 12 years programming in PHP projects of different complexities and areas and it is for me the best server language in combination with Javascript and GO is simply perfect

[@juanortegaa6916]

Amazing ! Which framework of PHP do you recommend to learn first ? I am frontend developer with JS/React/TS.

[@tsolanoff]

@@juanortegaa6916go doesn’t need the shit like php.

[@SuperBlackBeto]

I want to know the same as first comment :)

[@abelenocrodriguez]

@@juanortegaa6916 Laravel as Gateway and Fiber with Go

[@danfg7215]

I remember scoffing at PHP when I learned Ruby and Rails. My website was slowing down to a crawl with Rails, and debugging it was a nightmare. So I eventually went back to PHP, humbled, and I'm glad Laravel exists.

[@gamerneversleep4200]

Skill issue?

[@danfg7215]

@@gamerneversleep4200 right, that explains why Rails is dead, ppl lacked skills

[@EduardoEscarez]

@@danfg7215 Rails isn't dead, and not only is faster than in previous versions but getting really important new additions like Hotwire so not only you don't need a JS framework to provide interactivity, but you can build from web to iOS/Android apps using the same tools. Also the future for Rails 8 is becoming promising with new features for security and deployment, the latter with Kamal. But nothing of the above should be understood as against PHP, in fact is a really good thing than we are now moving towards a separation and simplification of full stack development, while at the same time the major frameworks (Laravel, Rails, Django, Phoenix, etc) are not only getting better/faster but also providing new features.

[@h0td0g]

If rails is dead, laravel is equally dead.

[@danfg7215]

@@h0td0g you're right, it's not fair to say it's dead, but your logic doesn't hold. Rails is losing popularity over the years, while Laravel has been rising in popularity and maturity. I still use and love Ruby as a sysadmin, but PHP is faster, more mature, and more integrated and adapted for web use.

[@gkiokan]

I came from HTML Strict 1.1, where Internet Guides and Stackoverflow and co didn't exist. I feel your pain mate. Nobody new devs will NEVER understand what struggle we went though.

[@yvan2563]

NS3 vs IE3.

[@renehoehle]

I use PHP and Symfony for many years now and it's great.

[@SachinYadav-eh7vg]

When are you releasing a course on PHP

[@Binxalot]

Php is perfect for the most common tasks developers need. Out of the box you have built in functions for Date math, object/array manipulation, data validation & sanitation and currency arithmetic. Each of those requires a separate library or more to do in js/node environments, when building small apps and one off sites that are only pushing blog/news/comments it just works, you then just use js for UI animations and ajax content.

[@tsolanoff]

Every modern language has the same toolkit in the standard library.

[@hentype]

@@tsolanoff And so is PHP, and has been in the last 3 decades. JS chuds keep yapping about speed when all their projects barely reach 100 concurrent views.

[@Ivanovic021]

I agree with Max! JavaScript is great for full stack applications and web sites, now. There are other options of course like: PHP-Laravel, Ruby-Ruby on Rails, Python-Django, Java-Spring, C#-.NET etc. It is about the wealth of options when it comes to making/developing web apps and websites! At the beggining of 2000s there were only few ways for making dynamic websites, now there are many ways. Developers should just choose the approach/es that suit/s them best for the projects they work on. In the end there is no "best" option! It is not all about the tools, it is how you use them. 😊

[@v23452]

Symfony - a PHP framework- is quite awesome, especially with new versions of php getting quite elegant

[@danfg7215]

Where do I know this guy from, I know that voice... oh yeah, from a React course I did on udemy a long time ago! Nice to see you here, Max!

[@maximilian-schwarzmueller]

Nice to meet you here, too!

[@kvng_Edwin]

Yeah react and flutter in udemy, he’s the best , I took his course, but they are too many I haven’t finished them 😅

[@luciaojos]

I love the way you do it. * I've been programming for 20 years. After trying Angular, React, Vue over NodeJS and all their headaches I've decided to go back to simple php + jquery in my projects. Bye.

[@AlexWerner42]

I started long time ago (>15y) with PHP, I hated React for so so long. But gosh I love Next now. It feels the best of the two world now. Not even do I need an API aside now, not even do I need to actually spend time coding, I can full focus features, what a wonderful circle.

[@akashthoriya]

I've started with PHP 🔥 In fact, my profile is to work with Laravel and ReactJS ❤‍🔥

[@henrioseptiano9665]

I started my programming career 11 years ago using PHP for 6 years. Must to say is easy to learn.

[@ChristianReyes-kl1mo]

Hola a todos los desarrolladores, Php fue creado para la web y ha sido y sigue siendo unos de los lenguajes mas poderosos para la creación de proyectos, si bien el mundo de Js ha evolucionado mucho no deja de ser complejo el tener que depender de multiples librerías , paquetes y otras cosas que escapan del control del desarrollador y esto afecta la continuidad de las aplicaciones y su mantenimiento, bueno saludos a todos.. Happy coding!!!

[@mohammadsaadati2863]

As a developer, we always devide problems to smaller ones and also we do it with code and the idea of combination of front-end and back-end can add complexity and more process to compile thease code to be usable in server and client. Because the base is seperate you need a server code and client code even if you combine them together in development you have to separate them for production mode

[@enriquesneffels3053]

how nice is to hear a real instructor not talking down on PHP, he truly know what he talks about. Not like some Andrei who is a joke of an instructor and coder.

[@zearthus7089]

As a solo developer as well not going to the complication setup with react, I do go PHP because it is much easier to scale migrate from different server setup. As Max say I combine my PHP with JavaScript for Dynamic client side task. For internal server side task PHP will do all of it with much better security connecting with API and database.

[@zsoltsz2323]

Web developer since 2005. I'm fed up with how the industry only ever gets more complex. Back then, our preferred deployment method was manually uploading changed files via ftp... I recently saw a junior web dev position requiring 3 years of kubernetes.

[@reiniergarcia]

Do you have any plans for a Laravel tutorial at Udemy?

[@den9943]

Max, I hope you are still part of Academind, one of the most advanced channels for software development.

[@maximilian-schwarzmueller]

Yes, I am!

[@den9943]

@@maximilian-schwarzmueller huh, great!)

[@yvan2563]

I started with Apache's SHTML, i.e. Apache's version of Server Side include. After having worked with something so limited, PHP seemed to be limitless.

[@4AlexeyR]

Cool :) Some kind of review how it was :) I agree with that. It's all about Server Side Rendering. I started with basic and later C to produce some UI interactions via ASCII DOS visualisations. After that the C++ Builder sometimes with DirectX (and Delphi) :) And the PHP was great for the web and to interact with user in a way similar to Windows/Mac GUI etc. If I remember correct, the PHP has a change to be interpreted in a browser as now JS. But miss it in some reason. Did you heard it? And one interesting thing that Lua was invented earlier than JS and can be instead of JS but Lua was invented in Brazil as I remember and was not so popular but now used in some databases.

[@leoschafer8956]

I'm building an entire corporate intranet on my own for the company I work for. Using pure JavaScript would take forever and it would be much more complicated to ensure a cohesive architecture. JavaScript frameworks drastically reduce the delivery time.

[@emerson-sheaapril8555]

As one of my favorite people in Udemy how was i never subscribed? On that thanks for keeping all your courses updated, some of them i must have bought 3-4 years ago and in currently going through a transition in my life was pleasently surprised i could use your classes to move forward.

[@Dylan_thebrand_slayer_Mulveiny]

I started doing web developing about 15 years ago. I believe that PHP and JS have both evolved pretty equally in terms of features. Developing in both languages has become so much better over the years. I doubt JS will ever fully replace PHP. There's just too many things that PHP does more securely than could ever be done in a client, such as file and database access. There's some stuff you just can't have exposed to the client, and that's where JS falls short. Even if you obfuscate or secure your endpoints, the client can still see and modify XHR requests. Something that you can't do with server side processing. As for V8, it will never be able to fully replace PHP as a server because there's just so many limitations it has in terms of the features in the engine versus what's available in the real client. Because there isn't a 1-to-1 relation between the engine and client, you'll always have edge cases you're working around which is a terrible way to develop. I like the idea of V8, but I think it does more harm than good. It's best to leave PHP and JS separate, because they are separate languages with separate concerns.

[@raphaelpinel2614]

Yes, but what if JavaScript runs on the server?

[@richard-schneider]

Do you know Remix or NextJS?

[@ripplesr5655]

Glad I stopped going nuts over frontend and frameworks like NextJS and moved on to PHP with Laravel. There is InertiaJS which you can use with a frontend frameworks like Vue or React leveraging full-blown PHP from the backend.

[@todormarkov2860]

I was thinking of trying Inertia, but it seems to be a problem with SSR...

[@ripplesr5655]

@@todormarkov2860 Problem of what sort? Check out the doc for the SSR.

[@henrichkoszegi5091]

@@todormarkov2860It supports SSR

[@rcmnet]

In 2005 we had codeigniter with the MVC pattern on the backend, what is the improved and modern nextjs version of that today?

[@swojnowski453]

I have been using codeIgniter for some 20+ years, it is fast as a shark, no chenges needed.

[@al3nmicl]

Ahh man, codeigniter! That was the first framework I ever used... what a blast from the past! I wonder whatever happened to it?

[@swojnowski453]

@@al3nmicl Codigniter, currently version 4, is doing ok. All my web apps are powered by it and I'm very happy with performance + no downtimes. Sticking to one framework against all the shit course sellers throw at you is a key to success ;).

[@Gilltrick]

Two years ago, I thought for two semesters at my old high school. After class, I was talking to the teacher who was also administrating the whole mess - To make the story short, after 16 years there was still code running I wrote as a teenager.

[@oluwaseunadebayo2499]

PHP can be used on both client side and server-side... try Laravel and Livewire

[@fmachine86]

The comments in this video make me realize just how entry level the majority of the development community really is.

[@JLDRPT]

Can you elaborate more?

[@FirstYokai]

It's the frontend web devs. Since they start right away with a frontend frameworks and don't experiment outside of web dev.

[@phucnguyen0110]

What do you expect lol, most entry/junior web developers (here) are all coming from modern frontend frameworks.

[@brandsintel]

True!!!

[@ro4lol]

Arrogance. Too much of it in the tech world

[@envadd.6556]

I use PHP all day and I am sticking with it lol

[@landsman737]

3:25 Nobody was using raw PHP without template systems when things went serious. Same thing in Javascript as you explained later in the video. Both ecosystem and frameworks evolves. On the end it is working really the same way on low level.

[@NickEnchev]

I started webdev with .NET and Java back in 2004ish. I'm actually really starting to use quite a bit more PHP these days for client work as its so much more inexpensive and straightforward to host. PHP has also become quite a nice mature language/ecosystem and I can enjoy all of the (over)engineering I love in the Java world now, in PHP :)

[@OmarBara-ki2xg]

i left the PHP world long time a go and got in the asp and angular stormy world but they have a huge advantage in Fintech companies, so going with the market demands is the true source of info for me. thank you ( Js and c#)

[@애쓰봇]

I am a back-end developer with PHP. My junior front developer (react) said that sever-side rendering is fency one in their field. I think to my self, 'if back-end and front-end get integrated, who loses job? Front-end used to be a part of building a web site with PHP'

[@osiris26178]

Laravel and Vuejs was good choice for me last 4 years but livewire 3 change my mind. Not telling this is the best choice for development( still for SPA is vuejs better choice ) but write one in php full dynamic website without refreshing full page and loading all assets is good for most projects.

[@swojnowski453]

nah, your app has to work without JS first, if it doesn't it is a piece of junk ...

[@duongphuhiep]

I share most the same thoughts, the biggest difference between Nodejs frameworks (next, nuxt, sveltekit..) and "traditional" framework (Laravel, Rails..) is really the template engine. (1) while the traditional framework forces developer to use different template engines 1 for front + 1 for back. The mix of both template engines is often "messy" (hard to maintain) (2) the Nodejs frameworks share the same template engine when rendering page on Server side or Frontend side => it is a lot more convient to share the same rendering logic between front and back. I don't consider *.svelte or *.jsx as Javascript / Html / Css. Evens the syntax are 99% similaire, they are still different language. in case (2) the barrier between Front and Back is blur but The framework would still force developer to make responsibility seperation between Server and Client because it is just unavoidable. We still have to distinguish between Javascripts on server side and JavaScript on browser side, The blurry barrier usually make things harder for inexperience developers.

[@marcodelpercio]

SPAs is the main difference. They did not exist back in the old php days so php was sending back full pages or at best small ajax response fragments. Modern js tech have made the front-end way more powerful (and also way more convoluted). You can still today perfectly use php as the backend for an angular/react app. Today we have many more alternatives of course

[@swojnowski453]

it must work without JS, you do not even know how many people just turn JS off when browsing the web. PHP first, then add some JS if you need it, but make sure, the whole thing works on a browser that cancels any JS.

[@bass-tones]

@@swojnowski453The number of people who turn off JS is absolutely tiny. You’d have to be a developer to even understand what that means. And then any developer toggling that setting would surely understand that they’re doing so with extremely high likelihood that various parts of virtually any page they visit will cease to work.

[@swojnowski453]

@@bass-tones I have been a web developer for the last 28 years. I'm running multiple of my own systems. The principle is : if it does not work without JS, it is crap. You do not even know how many people turn JS just to hack websites and do it successfully. Relying on JS is single worst mistake you can do in web dev.

[@bass-tones]

@@swojnowski453 Your view is reflective of a tiny and shrinking subset of the community. I’m not going to argue that _some_ simple sites should maintain fallbacks when JS is not available. But a huge percentage of the web today is, by design, too interactive to work with JS off. Good luck creating something like Google Docs, for example, without JS. Or even for myself, just last week I was working on a live scoring system that needed Web Sockets to work in any capacity. There is no possible fallback for a tool like this. Your point about hacking sites with JS off seems to be an argument against what you’re saying as well. You’re able to “hack” sites by turning JS off because those sites _tried_ to offer non-JS fallbacks and did it extremely poorly (likely they did not apply input validation correctly). Except you obviously can’t do what you’re describing if the site is _fully_ dependent on JS. How are you going to “hack” a site by turning off JS if nothing on the page even loads because the site assumes the user must have JS? And again, what you’re describing is something that only a tiny subset of developers would bother to do. The average user A) has no idea what JS is, and B) would not even have the thought to turn it off. I don’t even think you _can_ turn it off on most mobile browsers, and on desktop turning it off is an “advanced” feature that 99.9% of users will rightfully never use. Times have changed since 2000…

[@DirkZz]

There are many reasons to like and use Javascript, but for many websites PHP/Laravel will do just fine. Over the past years I used quite a lot and imo the eco system of Laravel blows all JS frameworks away. Is it the most fancy? Are you "limited" in some choices? Sure, you dont have 100 libraries for routing, database access etc. but to me thats a pro not a con. Onboarding new devs is very easy, the end product is just as good. It does what it should do, and there has been a reliable and clear upgrade path for years for both Laravel & PHP.

[@babutschi]

yeah, really reliable. they killed lumen. so reliable.

[@IskanderAbbassi]

PHP with Symfony is truly a magical web builder

[@diegoc3749]

until Laravel came out

[@paulomirandaarias9544]

​@@diegoc3749 Have you tried Symfony, on a complex API, not the typical CRUD API?

[@RichardCatto]

Symfony is a good framework. much better than Laravel. I wish people would stop being sucked into using Laravel

[@Netz0]

Laravel actually uses many Symfony components under the hood. There are many developers who eventually migrate from Laravel to Symfony, but it's rarely the other way around. Laravel is more popular because it's easier to learn, but at some point senior developers need something more mature and robust and start looking at Symfony. Laravel is extremely popular because it has great marketing and learning materials, Symfony being a bit more complex to master, but there is a reason why most PHP projects like CMS, ecommerce, etc. use Symfony as their core or many of its modules for functionality @@diegoc3749

[@mind.journey]

​@@RichardCatto what are the advantages?

[@osawereao]

Everything is simple. Everything is hard. Everything is knowledge. Everything is perspective.

[@thesloveniaboy123]

What do u think about Angular + Ionic for the frontend and Laravel Breeze (Sanctum) for backend API (if u are familiar with php, html, js, Angular, Laravel)? So to have one source code for web&mobile apps (Android/iOs).

[@lassestube]

Totally agree. I was recently involved with a next project, where I usually work with Laravel, and found it extremely lacking compared to laravel. So much spaghetti code was written to just do simple things like seed a database, create models and what not.

[@tuananhdo1870]

Try t3 stack

[@gichumwangi8742]

Php and vanilla Js for me. The fact is the end user does not care what tech stack you have used for your saas or website as long as it works. Some of these Js frameworks are just a huge pain go work with them. You have to istall tons of libraries to get some things working... things that come natively packed in php.

[@hamedghafouri5451]

Hello, I have been involved with Java and JavaScript frameworks for about two years to learn the easiest way to build a web. Finally, I came to the conclusion that a level knowledge of JavaScript along with PHP can be much better than React or Angular to start working. Those who know object orientation, in my opinion, if they have problems with JS frameworks, they should definitely talk about PHP.

[@seyyedkhandon]

Frontend framework just got in the sampe path that linux distors got, a lot of duplicated frameworks just like a lot of duplicated and useless linux distros... a lot of inconsistencies and unecessary challenges, a lot of borne costs to developers and companies due to lots of exactly the same but diffrent in names! hooks, composition api,dynamic loading, resumibility etc...

[@jediampm]

Very true and i use Linux Desktop base OS. Too much freedom can turn into messy world.

[@programmerjowo]

@@jediampm fact

[@СэрШпинат]

also unix philosophy of doing one small thing good we see in package management, where there are too many dependencies which is security risk and inability to do leftpad by yourself

[@athirsonsilva3808]

As a Linux user I couldn't agree more.

[@ajlive6737]

i started with php , and continue working with php and bunch of other stuff .. but i think php is still better option for building many websites and backend. its very cool and simple ..

[@szoatman]

I loved PHP. During this, he became an object oriental from 4 to 5, and then became super fast from version 7. Regardless of this, today I would only touch it if the framework was symfony. I really liked javascript. I started my modern front end with vue / nuxt js and I've let it go. As a frontend, only angular or react / next can be considered on the client side, and on the basis of node js, my favorite is the nest js framework. All this, of course, running in docker.

[@moka7986]

Thank you for bringing this topic. I have started using nextJs recently and I had the same feelings as yours like the php,jsp era coming back? There are definitely benefits of server side rendering and nextJs enables mixing between server and client. It's cool but also causes confusion. Each step with NextJs, I revalidate my SPA development habit is good or not which leads my implementation time slower. I think it'd be awesome to have what are the real world examples of mixing server/client side components.

[@okonkwo.ify18]

Fuck next js .

[@alexmozmtl]

Been out of coding for 10 years. Now getting back and it's so complicated. Tried to get going with Laravel 3 times. Gave up. We need to compile code now? Plain old PHP on LAMP, that's all.

[@gokukakarot6323]

Yeah, with htmx and even the advent of react, made me question this as well. I started with PHP4 and then slapped to learn PHP5 , converting sql statements to prepared sql statements. I did LAMP stack :P

[@sinkcat0113]

I didn't start with PHP, I'm pretty young (18) and an aspiring developer. I like to experiment with a lot of things PHP being one of them and in a lot of cases I actually find myself preferring PHP over JavaScript or even Python too. Call be a masochist but I don't know the language just kind of clicks with my thought process. People say they have issues reading PHP and I can totally see how that can be. But for me I read it just fine even my old code after not having touched PHP for a month or so. Plus, adding comments I think can help with any language which I try to do as much as I can. An astricts to this however is that I've ever only needed to use PHP for server related things as it was built for. I don't think in my right mind I'd ever consider doing something else with PHP. Moral of the programming journey for anyone whose getting started or trying to fulfill their interests. No matter what someone says about a language, if it works for you it works for you. You won't get anywhere trying to find a language that everyone likes because that simply just does not exist. Infact you should be starting with the question of what can I use to get to what I want. What tools are available that best help me reach my goal, and work backwards from there.

[@Jason-ot6jv]

I wish you success in your journey! If you like php more than python, then you should try C/C++

[@progressisbeautiful1541]

We use Web components instead of framework, and pure PHP in the backend, and Tailwind for CSS. Websites are very fast.

[@mycloudvip]

Hi Max! Love your content as always! Any combination of web technologies that give you the end result you want and expect, that is the most important thing. Trendy stuff tends to spoil faster that good and solid programming languages that are still around.

[@denniszenanywhere]

Can you do PHP/Laravel/Adonis etc course?

[@jaxontn]

What about Elixir with Phoenix Framework?

[@alkebabish]

I used to write classic ASP, kind of similar to PHP but it died out. I find the fullstack NextJS approach a little confusing because there is SO much going on behind the scenes. There are multiple layers of abstractions between what we write and the code that gets send to the browser. Of course, we need this now because the apps have got so much more complex, but I kind of miss the old days!

[@PbPomper]

Fullstack JavaScript sends shivers down my spine...

[@EnJay-l6y]

How does this integrated approach impact a microservices architecture, where the idea generally is to implement decoupled services.

[@marekpanti2139]

I think there is one more topic that almost no one is yelling out: PHP hosting is cheap and it comes with the database out of the box. I have a simple hobby nodeJS app and since I had to use postgres I am paying around 20eur. / month for a simple project. With PHP it would be around 5eur.

[@robertsandiford6223]

Huh? What is PHP hosting? I just use a VPS, price is only related to resources available - around 7 Eur should be enough for a small project with a cheap provider.

[@zzzyyyxxx]

​@@robertsandiford6223exactly, not sure what they're talking about, it costs me the exact same whether I'm using PHP or Javascript

[@_erayerdin]

@@robertsandiford6223 He talks about shared hosting. Shared hosting costs are significantly cheaper than VPS.

[@Ascarion47]

Most simple web hosting will come with PHP support. You can get that for 1-2€/month.

[@robertsandiford6223]

@@Ascarion47 You mean a cPanel account? I have cPanel hosting and I run Node.JS on it too. Only takes a minute to install.

[@mariel1980]

Typescript + Angular + Angular Material are a beautiful match for frontend development.

[@WarshipSub]

Hello Maximilian, i would like you to know that i got my first job as a React Native developer thanks to your courses on Udemy. This is just a thank you post :)

[@deancoding1623]

Max, you look great brother. Watched you many years ago and you look the same age. Appreciate this video.

[@GemboyTV]

I've been learning html css and js what's next? Which language or framework should i learn?

[@backyardcoding3447]

on frontend you should go for react and for backend go for nodejs express (node framework) or nest(same nodejs framwork)

[@swojnowski453]

no next, build your project and see what's missing, on that basis you find out where to go next.

[@_DATA_EXPUNGED_]

Build something. That's the most important part of learning. Build something entirely by yourself and don't go with any tutorials or copilot.

[@swojnowski453]

@@_DATA_EXPUNGED_ the reason is, you encounter problems that are relevant to what you build and if you solve them the solution will stick. Solutions to irrelevant problems do not stick ... most of the time.

[@alex-costantino]

PHP has the power of FPM.. which is a standard setup among servers and therefore you don't have to care about ports, etc

[@JiraTicket-zz6bh]

We are similar age and yes we all used to do PHP back then

[@JiraTicket-zz6bh]

I use Mamp right now.

[@swojnowski453]

ha ha, used to? I have been doing it for 28 years, it is been a gold mine, and still is, in fact it is better than ever has been ...

[@VitorZonho]

I see many complain about security in relation to injection, but in this context this is not a problem, we have many layers of security for this, but what I keep thinking is that this approach similar to PHP makes it possible to create systems with a single file, in PHP if the dev didn't implement a file type filter in the upload form, and if the server didn't have a well-configured server with folder permissions, all you had to do was upload a file manager and have full access to the code.

[@funhelmet2102]

We all come back to PHP, its really awesome to work with php and laravel 👍

[@akumayin3350]

hoping for you to create course related to PHP

[@nizamersoftware]

I only used php for server side and javascript for client side for last 10 years. Never needed to look else where. I developed many projects for clients and never needed something else to complete any project. Yes, you also happen to use windows binaries and python libraries in php apps for some functionalities but php always saves your back.

[@farhanasultana9213]

PHP was made specifically for the back end. No messing around, no nonsense. People complain saying you cant do anything else with PHP so its rubbish. Mate!!!, a tyre is made specifically to be put on a vehicle. it's not meant to serve any other purpose lol. JS was made for front end so stay there.

[@Dev-graph]

Are we going back to PHP with fullstack JavaScript? Answer:- Yes, Thats Why our college do not update Our syllabus.

[@emmanuelnwabuodafi6415]

Hello Max, can you also talk about Nuxt and Vue... Nuxt is as awesome as Next or probably even more

[@harem_lord-FFM]

I started with front end react. Then it felt so limiting, I cannot finish most features with that alone so I switched focus to backend Laravel then added Vue for the interactity with some CSS

[@aksalsf]

Javascript also has its own Laravel-like framework called AdonisJS, instead of using Blade, they have Edge with very similar syntax of Blade

[@maximilian-schwarzmueller]

Yep, that's true! Played around a bit with it + liked it quite a lot.

[@edwardkabwoy]

Adonisjs is the best nodejs backend framework 🙌🙌

[@emerelle3535]

I'm no dev, just was always kind of interested. x) I started playing with html and later I learned some basic php-stuff. For some Reason I never was interested into JavaScript since I thought: What about people who disable JS in their browser? Long story short: I was interested in some coding but never had ideas for content or was good in designing (graphics/stylesheets) and thus everything I made was boring and ugly so I did not continue… x) Years later (now!) I stumbled over htmx (wich is basically an JS-Library, so much for „what if..“ xD) and play around using it with PHP. Its kind of fun and somewhat exciting but I have the same problems as back then: no idea for content and design. So I once again prefer to spent my time on playing Video Games instead of „creating something“. x)

[@dalemoayokunle7330]

😅same situation but I haven't called it a quit, don't think I will since there are other creatives around who can give ideas

[@rtothec1234]

After years of slinging React, Vue and Node. These days if a site doesn’t need a heck of a lot of front end functionality and has a simple or no API then I will reach for PHP and jQuery when I need simple, fast performing sites. The older I get the more simplicity I crave. Although, I wish Laravel had not gotten rid of their small brother framework: Lumen.

[@maximilian-schwarzmueller]

I can definitely relate with this simplicity take!

[@GallanWidyanto]

In your opinion, how about the Slim PHP framework, can it replace Lumen ??

[@joebazooks]

when i began expanding beyond front end languages around 2013-2015? php seemed like the only decent option back then too

[@JasonJones1162]

PHP is literally a templating language on its own. You don't need a separate templating engine to use it for that. I would love to see a better programmer than me create components using one of the front end frameworks compared with using PHP as a templating language, and see just how much worse or better each one is. For rendering mid-sized components, an inventory item card for example, PHP is extremely easy to pull that in. Combining a bunch of smaller components together into a larger component may be where it would be harder due to all of the includes that would be needed. But, I'm not positive it couldn't be done in a more elegant way than that.

[@TheBuddilla]

JS/TS still have imports, it's all the same crap.

[@sergeliatko]

In PHP you might add events and use listeners for tricky components

[@florisvandenberg7424]

"You don't need a separate templating engine to use it for that" Wrong. Mixing html and php quickly becomes unreadable. Been there. Done that.

[@JasonJones1162]

@@florisvandenberg7424 You aren't supposed to mix it in order to use it as a templating language. You write the HTML and you use placeholders in each area where PHP is going to put any dynamic data. PHP pulls in that HTML file and replaces the placeholders with the data. That keeps the HTML and the PHP completely separate. You can even do this on a "component" basis instead of just using full HTML pages, as long as you pull the components in and replace the placeholders in the proper order.

[@florisvandenberg7424]

@@JasonJones1162 What you're describing is a custom template engine. The purpose of a template engine is to separate logic and html. Your solution provides that albeit in very limited form. A 'real' template engine also provides limited control flow (if, foreach, etc)

[@Salamaleikum80]

Ich würd mich zu sehr dafür interessieren wie du damals den Weg zum Informatik Tutor eingeschlagen hast. Würd gern die ganze Backstory hören. Wann, wieso, was hast du in der zwischenzeit gemacht :D