Are You Listening? | Mixing Meets Mastering

[@danield2000]

This is the most helpful, non-ego based discussion on mixing I've ever heard. Thanks Sylvia and Jonathan.

[@tjordulf]

@@patchybeardopinions9340 a little bit of ego is allowed, they have done some stellar work. But nevertheless, they didn't come across as up they're own asses. I personally found that helpful and inciteful. But it also illuminates the fact that Izotope actually DO care about quality music production. For me it's, Izotope, Waves, Plugin Alliance, UAD and Slate, with a smattering of other quality gems that are out there.

[@1alexanderkup1]

by the way, have you ever heard any ego based discussion on mixing on KZbin?

[@danield2000]

@@1alexanderkup1 No, are you interested in one?

[@rohannagarkar608]

More like visible sexual tension lmao

[@rb032682]

@@rohannagarkar608 - 😨🤣 Hey, smart chicks are hot!

[@musicproductioncentral4540]

That's an INSANE dip on the master buss eq. Holy shit.

[@Inflightmuzik]

12:20 The biggest misconception in mixing/mastering is the idea of leaving headroom in the mix for the mastering. This is where people confuse headroom with dynamic range. The more important issue is the dynamic range...how much did the mix get compressed/limited/etc. This cannot be undone the way headroom can be. Your headroom can be fixed immediately at any stage in 32bit float by turning down your mix. This can be done at the mixing stage or the mastering stage. Lowering your mix by -6db or any other arbitrary number isn't actually doing anything for the mix other than lowering the volume. As long as you are not clipping the mix, the mastering engineer can turn the volume down themselves even if you leave the mix at 0db. So you turning in a mix at -X db does nothing for the mastering engineer. Instead, pay attention to how much your are compressing the tracks and the busses, especially anything on the stereo bus (overall mix). Allowing the mastering engineer to use their own compressors, limiting, room/environment, fresh ears and experience can benefit the final project immensely. However, there is a great point that was also made in the video about applying some of these things to your own mix yourself before mastering to achieve the initial sound you're looking for so that you don't leave too much of the art/decisions to the mastering engineer. So I also believe in adding your own flavors to the overall mix before sending it off. Just don't overdo it to where the mastering engineer has nothing left to compress/limit with their tools/room/technical expertise.

[@VintiqueSound]

1000x yes! It's really quite simple, but unfortunately not well understood.

[@dopesensi]

Well explained .. Thank you

[@1979mcdoog]

waaoooh check out the big brain on brad

[@prodbydramatic]

what in the world are you talkin about?? i was just wondering the other day where you been. i hope all is good and glad your still grindin

[@ramonw9430]

True, but I find that the more headroom I have the less I have to limit. That is ultimately better for the mix.

[@jasoncaldwell0613]

I love how Sylvia isn’t afraid to ask questions. In this field we are always learning. I’m so happy I got into music.

[@andrewmcbridemusic]

Rookie Producer, here. This channel is seriously a God send. Thank you so much for sharing all of this incredibly in-depth information freely with us.

[@arielschlichter4727]

I love how the most knowledgable artists and engineers are also extremely humble. Sylvia Massy is a perfect example of this. Respect her deeply!

[@FVCK-]

@Ariel Schlichter agreed. It’s akin to the old adage you hear about how people that have to brag about how much money they have, don’t have shit compared to people with the real money. If I didn’t know who bill gates or warren buffet were, they could walk by me on the street and I wouldn’t know if they were worth $40 or 40 billion. I think these two are both geniuses, and even though she obviously knows everything he is saying to her, she politely listens as though she’s actually learning something new. That is the epitome of humble right there. 👍🏻

[@michaelweinstein3056]

There's an exception to every rule. In this case, I might point to Chris Lord-Alge. Arguably one of the finest mix engineers in pop/rock for decades. Yet also arguably a man who is unable to comprehend the idea of humility.

[@IDigress]

@@michaelweinstein3056 yep I like him but he's definitely ego lvl 1000 😂

[@R3dmanactual]

I love this. And she was sooooo humble. No ego detected.

[@StanYouCrazy]

I like how she took the back seat even though she's a genius

[@BenGurskyMusic]

She the GOAT

[@StanYouCrazy]

Big facts

[@BenGurskyMusic]

@@StanYouCrazy on the same page

[@DROPNATIONsol]

she clearly has no clue how to use commonly used techniques like gain staging and sidechain compression, widening sounds with delay's and other simple tricks actually. sorry to inform you, she may have worked with some genius bands but she probably ruined their songs.

[@gravityfreaksmusic]

@@DROPNATIONsol Meh...

[@DanFlashes99]

It's very comforting that even someone at the top of the game like Sylvia can use some clarification on things like gain structure. And how humble of her to ask such questions. This stuff is hard! even the pros never stop learning.

[@Syklonus]

Stubborn pride and fragile egos everywhere would stop most people from admitting they don't know something. Most would say something wrong and stick to it rather than admit they don't know. She's openly recognising her faults and is willing to address them. That's smart!

[@exortor]

I think she knows all this stuff but she is just doing it for the audience. Took the back seat what a legend.

[@Btvstudio]

these are 2 people I definitely respect. Listening to them talk is great, no egos at all.

[@atta1798]

Trust me there is an ego there

[@joeydego2]

I wish this entire platform was like this. You couldn’t pay for a better education than this.

[@squidcaps4308]

When i started doing AB with reference material often.. It really changed things. Mixes are consistent now and it is kind of hard to fail. It is brutal at first but it is also the fastest way to learn.

[@gribb5967]

I liken it to "tough love". It can be ego destroying, but necessary.

[@itsbeatomusic]

facts!

[@EddieKMusic]

Actually, I only started doing AB with reference tracks with my last song. And... it was a difference like a day and night.

[@jordangressman5164]

i’m hitting this point myself too.. and idk if anyone can sympathize with this, but it feels like a bit of a catch22 when things start getting easy.. because now, every single improvement to my skills yields MAYBE a 1-2% return, and the way i’ve learned up to this point has been pretty much online/youtube/reading, and nobody teaches this stuff online past a certain skill level. though, it’s obviously not the end, because i have all the tools i need to keep progressing. my ears, in my monitoring environment, listening to my favorite records. but it’s just such a bittersweet feeling..

[@peterbigblock]

Man, that is one of the most refreshing, honest conversations about mixing, etc. on all of KZbin (that’s, what, 10 million videos?). I run into the “all tracks recorded at 11” problem all the time. It takes some extra time to set-up an initial gain staging across an entire mix, but I find it’s actually a good way to familiarize myself with each project. Thanks, Izotope!

[@adamnienke3633]

I know this video is old, but I never thought a plugin company would have this quality of a series. What a great find, and a great interview.

[@Bultacoproteenie]

The pic of her on the motorcycle in the studio.. was my project that she produced and sang back ups on. (yes, we revved a live running motorcycle in the studio to capture real sound!) Here's the song Motorcycle Mania: (and yes, the cover art is a painting by Sylvia herself) kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYC1hImhf559Zrc

[@chikaayo8904]

for real ?

[@kiliankraus]

I love how these two have a really natural flowing conversation

[@jacquelamontharenberg]

Excellent video. Both engineers are very good and have a great deal of experience.. My production experience has shown me that if you are going to master your own mix, get away from the mix and do not listen to it for at least 2 to 4 weeks. Then you will have fresh ears to start mastering. Ozone 9 is a great starting place.

[@MrMapacheco]

Sylvia Massy!!

[@dysfunctionalmariachi995]

I want Silvia Massy on a record in my lifetime! Not enough women producer/engineer's! Great video!

[@chriswoolf1491]

This was a great video. I love the insights of two people that love their craft and never stop learning.

[@jaredrush6750]

I'm actually surprised Silvia didn't understand "gain staging" it's nice to hear her be vulnerable and ask questions basic or advanced for the pursuit of understanding.

[@williamclark3683]

Thank you Sylvia and Jonathan. I have been doing this since 1982 and I learn something new everyday...the concepts are limitless which generate such imagination. thank you for the inspirations.

[@YuriDeryous]

The problem Sylvia is (was) having is that she was bringing down the tracks using the channel faders instead of using the gain trim on the tracks or a gain plugin to that matter before beginning to mix. Using the faders will bring down the levels but won't touch the actual gain of the tracks, so you will continue to have hot signals but quieter in level (volume). This means you will still have problems with headroom as soon as you start to process the tracks, distorting things very easily. The easiest way to solve this is adjusting the track gain using the trim faders directly on the track itself, not in the channel fader. This works in Pro Tools, but I'm not shure if it's possible in any other DAWs. In Logic, for example, it doesn't. So I will have a gain plugin right in the first slot of every channel for this purpose OR I will use some channel strip plugin with input gain option built-in like the SSL channel. Do this, balance all the mix using the gain trim or gain plugin in every track. Make shure the stereo bus won't peak above -6db. Now you're good to start your mix without ever worrying about headroom, as long as you level match EVERY processing you do on your tracks.

[@VOByRobbins]

This is a fantastic series, Sylvia is always amazing to get her take on things and hearing them both talk "shop" together and ask questions of eachother is something you normally don't hear! Thank you izotope, makes me want to get the mastering suite!! I have Nector 3 and love it!!!

[@wyshwood]

I learned some of what I do is effective (right) and some others that I will employ from now on. Great conversation. Sylvia is brilliant, and an icon to me. Good times.

[@jeemalsoknownasjimhawkins1294]

This is absolutely fascinating. I know next to nothing about mixing and mastering, but I did just buy the iZotope Music Production 3 and Creative Suite 2 software bundles and I am going through all the Groove3 Tutorials before I begin using any of this. These KZbins you put out with great people like Sylvia Massy (I just subscribed to her channel) are really great for someone like me who is trying to learn as much as he can. And, hey, if I can learn something (and I am a disabled Vietnam veteran) then anyone of you out there can certainly learn a lot. Thanks for posting this. Cheers.

[@StephenAntKneeBk5]

Thanks so much for this. It's a pleasure to hear pros explaining things with such clarity. Good comments as well. Good job on the video itself -- very nice camera, lighting, sound, edit. :-)

[@TheShpmusic]

U ear that. She went back 3 times! Sometimes u have to go back and fine tune adjustment when you think its proper. Love the fact that she went back and was not lasy too say oh yea that can work. Good job Sylvia.👍

[@jonsubs9998]

Thanks all around. To Sylvia for being so open. To Izotope for making this happen. Overall great video about the hands-on implications of mixing and mastering from the mixer's perspective.

[@homeworldmusic]

ASHLAND OR ! Oh hells, makes me smile. I owned a house in Grants Pass with the idea of retiring from El Lay up to there back in the day. Now here I am in the Wasatch foothills of Utah. What a long strange trip...Anyway, this is one of THE most useful vids I have ever viewed. Thanks, you two.

[@BoogieBear]

Another superb one to one conversation with real world talent This ‘Are You Listening’ series just gets better and better! Thank you 🙏

[@marchesi8]

INCREDIBLE. one of the best music channels in KZbin

[@lahattec]

Sylvia Massy is delightful. Awesome stuff.

[@TheShpmusic]

Wyner you are a boss!!. You know your work!!.very great feedback you input👍

[@konstruktsound211]

Great Conversation. I could listen to her for hours. For me Sylvia is by far the most inspiring person in the music industry. A great engineer and such a humble and down to earth person.

[@marc_leblanc]

I work in Cakewalk and I find too that most projects are too hot right from the start. I bring all my gains to -18db right off to avoid any clipping. It's been working very well for me and has improved my mixes drastically.

[@mage8568]

Thank you for the excellent tutorial. It was helpful in many ways. The only detail that surprised me was worrying about the volume or even the clipping. The 32-bit float audio signal already has more than 700 dB headroom. And many DAWs mix at 64-bit. If you add 100 dB gain to a file, and the mastering engineer removes 100 dB, and you repeat this ten times for a reason let’s ignore now, you’ll get back the same audio. Without artifacts. Clipping becomes an issue only when you export it to 16 or 24 bit PCM, and it’s above 0 dB. (And, of course, it can be an issue on analog gear.) On the other hand, I’ve heard it from random sources that many plugins, especially compressors, sound the best at about -18 dBFS as they model analog gear that wasn’t linear. I don’t know whether it’s true and if it is, how common it is. In my latest project, which was also my first track ever, I set all the buses near to -18 dBFS, because why not, but the individual tracks were usually normalized or only a little bit below 0. It would be great to learn more about this. The hints about how to EQ were inspiring and super helpful just like the part about the tonal balance.

[@olkid5076]

That was absolutely incredible. Thank you.

[@Redemptive]

Such a cozy vibe in this knowledge based ping-pong between these two proffesionals, who are of their own respective arts as proffesional as can be.

[@kurtcameron7562]

just starting the video...and oh wow Oregon is so cool.

[@ergophonic]

This channel is very serious. It's so serious, I've now turned on the bell to get all notifications. Sorry for not doing this sooner.

[@xJunioorx]

I was a bit confused 16:00. What I didn't understand is that even though they are limiting more the sound by pulling down the ceiling level , he says that it actually preserves better the transients, how is that possible? Shouldn't it be crushing more the transients?

[@xJunioorx]

@@saucekart1 makes sense, thanks

[@Okayymatt]

Thoroughly enjoyed this educational session. The experience of learning "alongside" a legend like Sylvia Massey made it special.

[@ellane8441]

Perfect Explanation -- You Just Have to Listen; Just Like Leonardo DaVinci; You Must Pay Close attention to your Frequencies..

[@iamyila]

This is the most I’ve learnt from any KZbin video. Very nice thanks

[@checktheneck]

10:28 lol, that GUI bug in ozone. When you gonna fix this, izotope?

[@otschie]

comforting words... thank you.

[@Rhekluse]

“Crushing Mess, my favourite genre.”

[@GuidoRighi]

I did a masterclass with sylvia, nice person and inspiring sound engineer!

[@DesperadoStudios]

Pretty obvious that they are dumbing it down for educational purposes. Sylvia knows her stuff. She could explain synthesis, audio-electronics and advanced recording tricks in her sleep. Are you telling me she doesn’t understand digital gain structure and basic concepts such as floating point, headroom, dynamic range and gain staging ITB? I don’t think so. 😉

[@tedboujee7006]

pretty obvious she isn't desperate to prove anything. just teach

[@Johnnylaurelli]

100% Finally a logical comment lol.

[@dianathompson7597]

Right, side chain compression is explained with a compressed with a side chain out put. She knows about it.

[@xJunioorx]

exactly what I felt

[@TjMoon91]

I was wondering this. I’m not familiar with her at all, but to me it seemed like she didn’t understand some really basic principles. It makes more sense that she was just asking questions that they thought the viewers may be asking.

[@ClaudeWernerMusic]

Illuminating! Thank you for this...

[@jeremyfortunethe1st]

As someone who started on analogue and moved to digital very quickly I can say it is a very different animal. I track in at -16/-12db and once the project is recorded I pull 10db out of everything as a start point. If I am mixing someone else's work it comes in hot allot of the time and I pull 30db out right away. I'm just a small studio in California. I wish I could go work in a place like this for a couple years just to put my Mark on some major work. I absolutely love the quirky little things Massy does when she records.

[@atta1798]

You are. Just fine trust me ...if you hybrid your recordings etc....you don't need Massy though one always learns from everyone

[@reginaldworthington7558]

Very classy interview - it’s so easy to follow a discussion when egos are checked at the door and there is just a calm, intelligent exploration of the subject at hand. Thank you so much to both of you.

[@pco2004]

Mystery Solved! I was having the exact same concerns that Sylvia had, namely, my need to bring down individual stem tracks to around -25-30db's since I'm sending the stems to busses. This was the only way for me to get headroom on the stereo bus but I was concerned the stem tracks low level was detrimental. I'm glad Wyner cleared the air on that one. Big thanks for this amazing interview.

[@yllekjs76]

Izotope have relay for gain staging and it is amazing for fixing this problem, I wonder if it was around when this video was made?

[@pco2004]

@@yllekjs76 I’ll check that out. Thanks

[@andiherzog]

Very interesting discussion! Thank you!

[@weyamusic]

Great video! You can really learn something out of every video you upload! Loving it

[@bakedcreations8985]

What a great lady and what an awesome man. If all humans were like these two it would make it much more harder to leave this earth.

[@ratmadness4858]

I had to pause this and learn more about her. I'm back now.

[@tonylewis3472]

Wonderful discourse. Thank you.

[@jazzrengue]

Loved this conversation! 👍🏻😊🎶🎵❤️🔊

[@Redonkeyulous]

I am grateful for both of you sharing these precious insights into the art. Lots of love. Thanks to iZotope!!!

[@Dudadius]

More of these. Very interesting.

[@G.GordonMidi]

8:26 If your tracks are too hot, it's better to throw a gain plug on the channel to bring it down. That way you still have the faders at a useable range. If you're not doing that yet, it's a game changer!

[@karlfweberdrummer]

Thanks for the information and insight (no pun intended). I would like to clarify that the idea of turning down the tracks at the fader is not a good one, typically I’d say a better rule of thumb would be to turn down the tracks at the clip or event stage pre fader and pre plugins inserts and operate the fader closer to unity gain. The resolution near unity is finer and would be better for automation rides later. Setting the gain of all the tracks would be my workflow usually when I start the static mix. Thanks Again, Karl

[@tylerdengler6960]

Also with the way on how you record your vocals where you don't want to come in recording too hot.

[@SkrawnCPT]

Of you add, say, a +6db gain plugin on the master before adding stems to the session, mix at 0db with the gain plugin at +6db, and then remove the gain before you export, you will end up with a final mix of -6db, leaving plenty of room for mastering.

[@bwhog]

Width... This is something I've wondered about. Adding stereo width on the master bus helps things sound more open but I've noticed it it often comes with a cost and that cost is a loss of impact. Not *punch* necessarily, just no longer in-your-face. There have been mixes I've done that I want to get wider but haven't been able to figure out that compromise in a way that satisfied me on both counts.

[@kensmechanicalaffair]

Mid side eq

[@proverbalizer]

3:45, that looks like a very drastic EQ to mix into from the start, I always try to get the levels and EQ of individual instruments right to try to avoid muddiness and then do some mild EQ on the stereo bus at the end of the mixing process to see if it helps....

[@danabarnes4751]

Fola the ProVerbalizer That’s what I was thinking! Pretty extreme curve, although I couldn’t tell what the scale was. Was that really 6db carved out of 250??

[@dianathompson7597]

She had a analog pice of gear she liked the sound of , so she copies it there.

[@joelnobles1644]

@@danabarnes4751 that's what I was trying to find,the scale

[@MikeHeebz]

Sylvia asked some great questions & they really helped me understand the confusion around headroom & where to start a mix level wise! Thanks for sharing the knowledge, everything from Jonathan is very informative & helpful. =)

[@juanfischer4813]

I love that some as knowledgeable as Sylvia is asking the same question I've had recently: if things are too hot, can I just lower them or they need to be at a good level from the start? The answer gives me piece of mind :)

[@atta1798]

It is simple follow your ears and lower ...

[@javierjanaid]

Beautiful!!! Thank you so much for your simplicity explaining all of that!!!. So nice people!!!. But why not to use a gain trim (like in Sam pro) instead the faders????????. You can run out of travel on the faders. Also, as far as I know, in some DAW's the lower the faders are, the greater the jump in db's is, so that make it a little more difficult to "control" the fader-db movement.... I prefer to use the trim (pre all). But this iS me

[@nihil-baxter]

Incredible valuable information for free. Thank you for that.

[@edaudio]

This is remarkably well presented!

[@arturovidal5536]

Love your honesty Jonathan!

[@illicitgraphics1]

loved this series and this particular video was super helpful

[@ecrecords615]

Sylvia Massy is the greatest!!!

[@redbeanrice7465]

This was one of the most helpful episodes so far, Sylvia's great! :) thank you both!

[@oscarsalgado3384]

Thanks for making this an amazing experience for people who are not as experienced as you guys are. Professionals lowering the level for people like us, gives me hopes on the stage of humanity at this moment ! XD

[@Khmissa]

Another Great video , thank you so much...waiting for more

[@chiefindisguise]

Jonathan's t shirt is AWESOME

[@NoctumusTV]

The way I see it, mastering is to music what post-production is to digital art, so yes: creativity is most certainly an important part of the process.

[@sixstringemotion]

"A crushing mess..." Yes! The name of my next project.

[@theoversouls]

Excellent interview with a wonderful, knowledgeable guest. Thank you!

[@thegreatgambeeno]

I love this woman so hard. She is so great, she's a genius, she's beautiful, and she works her ass off to do amazing work.

[@kieranniemand2939]

So many different ways of how to mix and set your gain structure.. thanks for this video!

[@HitTheRoadMusicStudio]

Very cool and interesting episode, thanks for sharing this stuff with us "mortal" mix & mastering people ;) !!!

[@dpinskey]

I’m curious if you, Sylvia, as the mixer, have used clip gain envelope adjustments as a way to set levels on your tracks before applying inserts and sends. I just started using it in the new Studio One 5 rollout and I have to say, I’m a huge fan of this way of bringing up or pulling down source signals, that once leveled, lets me head into the final mix with way fewer plugins trying to “fix” my mix. It allows me to bring the source signal in through our interfaces and outboard gear at a lower level with less risk of square-wave clipping and then being able to push the level up just under a level that would prove destructive and get some awesome saturation. I love the fact that this can be undone if at some point it’s determined that the mix got off on the wrong foot.

[@BuzzinProducer]

This was really good, very insightful and detailed

[@warthogstudios9784]

Excellent video! But make no mistake, Sylvia knows her stuff. This is for the benefit of viewers

[@dragondreamjln]

thank you so much!

[@russgaefe1554]

great, informative video! Thank you!

[@J-DUB-F1]

Great discussion from two pros at the top of their fields …...I'm fairly new to monitoring LUFS levels. It's really changed the way I work in a big way!. One thing I wish they had gone into more and clarified is this. The difference between pulling down faders, and pulling down the actual audio files(via clip gain). Both methods will affect the mix groups and mix buss....but, pulling down faders will not affect channels processing, where using clip gain will.

[@Generic_Robot]

John Wells I think you answered it right there m8, I’ll always opt to pull down the faders, that way I don’t mess up my compression/gate levels

[@julianwest4030]

I have a feeling that half of these questions are ones that both engineers already know the answer to, and that they're bringing them up just for the benefit of the viewer.

[@tjordulf]

I also think they were bringing them up in the context of how you would address that process using Izotope plugins. Which is not a bad thing of course.

[@johnkasonga6634]

Thanks for this video. I learned a lot today.

[@saracarter3518]

Great discussion and eye-opening in places. Thank you!

[@WesleyWestMusic]

Great video!!! Thank you so much

[@marcelog6847]

Great video, you both are amazing ! Such a pleasure to listen a conversation of this level ! thanks !

[@glennskinner9564]

Interesting that Sylvia is not using Clip Gain. I switch on the ALL group, select all the clips and then reduce them by,say. 10 dB. I prefer having the faders around zero as the fade resolution seems better

[@andrewkaplan149]

I love these videos so much! Really great work everyone and keep them coming please!!!

[@KrannakenTV]

Fantastic video. Thank you both so much.

[@4theyehiphop]

this was so amazing. Seeing them pick each others mind answered so many questions.