Arguments for why the 80s were a high point in comics

[@gusd41]

I think the artists and writers of the 80’s actually getting to experience comics at a younger age was a great influence.

[@Deephouse_Gent66]

Excellent point. The creators of the 80s had a lot of exposure to and direct contact with writers and artists from the 60s and 70s who were still active in the industry. Today's younger creators only look up to Brian Michael Bendis.

[@gobbieribbons]

As a newer comic reader who was born this century the 80's is the decade I have read most of from the 20th century.

[@johnnyjamboogie6614]

Comics in the 80s were great. The problem with giving a team a long run on a title is you might get a Tom King run on Batman. They let that guy destroy Batman for 85 issues. Publishers and editors need to be ready to yoke a bad creator off a book quickly if need be.

[@JarJarBinks4ever]

The 1980's were a high point in human civilization.

[@chuckgibson3973]

Sure didn't seem that way at the time, but upon reflection...

[@fishin4bass2002]

Odd considering Hollywood tells us it was such a bad time where we all were greedy and had excess.... like having excess is a bad thing...

[@chuckgibson3973]

@@fishin4bass2002 -- All the music was about partying and having a good time, then the 90s came and bummed everyone out.

[@fishin4bass2002]

@@chuckgibson3973 lmao like in comics, deconstruction came and made us all depressed... thanks nirvana!

[@chuckgibson3973]

@@fishin4bass2002 --- Alan Moore was the Nirvana of comics there. That and the Dark Knight is where all the real 'bummer' comics began. I love Moore and Nirvana BTW... just not the only 'flavors' I enjoy!

[@SamGuthrie1977]

The 80's are my favorite era for comics too, with the 60's being my second favorite. I think one reason 80's comics were so good is because the popular creators of that time (Claremont, Byrne, Levitz, Miller, Moore, Simonson, Layton, Hama, Wolfman, Perez, Stern, DeMatteis, Shooter, Ordway, Laird, Eastman, etc) were all about the age where they grew up reading Stan, Jack, and Steve in the 60's and were inspired by them. The 80's were also the last era where the focus was nearly entirely on comics - not TV and Hollywood. I think the 80's creators saw the comic industry as their endpoint; it's what many of them wanted to do since their childhood - and simply making great comics was their only goal.

[@mars___sumner]

80s comics were infectiously creative and fun but could also be dark and mysterious. Every artist had their recognizable style, writers respected the characters and their lore, and the books were affordable. Some of the best IPs and runs were created back then: Miller’s Daredevil, Byrne’s Man of Steel, Hama’s Wolverine, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Must have been a great time

[@kyronlewis6975]

I’m a 2000’s baby and I like a lot of movies and comics from the 80’s😂

[@davida.j.berner776]

The decade that began with Maus and The Dark Phoenix Saga, and took us all the way through to the first issues of Sandman, by way of DKR, Watchmen, and the Elektra Saga. What more needs to be said?

[@jl8485]

The work created in the 80s defined the characters and universes in a way the earlier decades did not. And when I say 80s I include 1977 and after. When Claremont, Byrne and Simonson were all doing their thing

[@GoldenMean743]

Claremont and Byrne's best stuff came in the 80s.

[@jl8485]

@@GoldenMean743 I'm simultaneously reading Claremont X-Men Volume 1, Byrne FF Volume 1 and Simonson complete run on Thor.. all hardcover, giant size omnibuses. It's a perfect escape from the world.

[@GoldenMean743]

@@jl8485 I've been reading Man of Steel and enjoying it a lot. I read some when I was a kid but not the entire run. They now have two HC volumes. Good stuff.

[@twistedtheorist749]

@@GoldenMean743 I’m also reading them right now. I’ve read them before but had to get but the Hardcovers. There’s a third volume coming out in June or July and hopefully they get to volumes 4 & 5 to finish John Byrne’s run.

[@GoldenMean743]

@@twistedtheorist749 The cancel possibility is always my fear when buying the HCs. Good to hear another is already dated.

[@nathanhearn356]

!980's were a golden age for alternative and independent press comics as well. Maus, Love & Rockets, Elfquest, Cerebus etc.

[@GoldenMean743]

I thought Maus started getting published in the 70s. But you're right, independents were amazing in the 80s, and I would add they produced some good stuff in the 90s contrasted with the gimmicks of the big two and Image. Bone and ACME Novelty Library are some of my favorites.

[@yermatedave4930]

L&R is a perennial favourite.

[@hulksmash8159]

@@GoldenMean743 Maus started in 1980.

[@GoldenMean743]

@@hulksmash8159 Yeah, I looked it up a while back. He started writing it in the 70s but didn't publish the first part till 80. It just has more of an underground feel than your common 80s comics, but you're right.

[@twistedtheorist749]

The 90’s was my introduction to comics. But as I got older I started going back and reading stuff from the 60’s-80’s. And hands down the 80’s was the best of the best time for comics. I look at it as the 40’s-70’s as the era of the original legends. Lee, Kirby, Ditko, Simon, Eisner, Siegal and Shuster, Finger and others. And the late 70’s-Mid 90’s as the era of the kids that grew up on the OG’s and wanted to elevate the medium and succeeded in doing so. Unfortunately since then there’s been more imitators than originators.

[@jaylan7847]

And unfortunately the imitators aren't even good at doing that.

[@LRM23936]

The 80's brought us Eclipse, Pacific and First Comics. Publishers that were willing to tell their own stories. I especially liked First Comics. They gave us GrimJack, American Flagg and Jon Sable. Three of my favorite comics ever.

[@clonegeek3317]

Nexus was great.

[@heroineburgh]

Speaking of First: we followed Whisper for almost its entire run, and had a letter published in issue #7 spotting music references which no other reader had apparently noticed. Also, when mentioning 80s indies, let's not forget companies like Heroic (Champions, Flare) and AC (Fem Force).

[@indiecomicsjones]

You certainly can't beat the price of comics in the 80s.

[@kyleweaver2578]

I wasn't even alive yet and I think the 80s were the best years for comics. Especially Marvel under Shooter.

[@TheONE-kq3mm]

AGREED....I’m sure that Shooter was under appreciated

[@kyleweaver2578]

@@TheONE-kq3mm often vilified

[@TheONE-kq3mm]

@@kyleweaver2578 yes he was and you have to take a hard look at the people that were at odds with him....

[@1Kelly1481]

100%.

[@fishin4bass2002]

Yes I think the era people grew up reading tends to be their favorite however I don’t think many people will say this current era is their favorite.

[@zingpulse4138]

The mid to late 80's was when comics aged with it's readers and DC finally surpassed the the young upstart Marvel in the creativity department. Batman, Sandman, Swamp Thing, Watchmen, Hellblazer, Black Orchid etc. Still read these after all these years.

[@billrules8716]

Jim Shooter never gets the full credit he deserves for the 80's being such a boom time for comics (Marvel pushed DC and the Indies to up their game as well). Without him, the 80's would have looked FAR different!

[@markthompson9754]

The transition from Stan was a big one. I have heard that Marvel was again on the brink of bankruptcy when they picked up a little known license at the time called 'Star Wars'.

[@smedleyprime1514]

@@markthompson9754 They also had Conan, Transformers and GI Joe

[@Deephouse_Gent66]

AGREED! He just got too big for his own head with his NEW UNIVERSE slop.

[@vittoriacolona]

I've heard this too. It's because he ran a very tight ship and put up with no nonsense from creatives and shot down some of the more silly/ridiculous ideas that writers had.

[@SeekerLancer]

Shooter is a controversial figure for good reason, but in hindsight I think his business acumen did far more good than bad.

[@ericbreen4340]

Wes and I just Recorded a video that touched on this .I mentioned being deferential to the mid 70's since that was my starting point .I mentioned that with the exception of the Miller , Claremont , Simonson and Byrne runs notwithstanding , the rank and file Comics of the 80's weren't particularly good .I have since gone back and read a ton of 80's books and they have aged incredibly well for the most part . An example is the Stern Avengers run is now my favorite Avengers run of all time . This would make a good topic for the next time you have me on one of your Friday streams as I would love to go in depth on this .

[@SamGuthrie1977]

That Stern Avengers run is indeed good. Even toward the end, when the roster was mostly C-listers, he still made it an exciting and interesting book.

[@Christophermanastasi]

I’d definitely listen to that. Stern was on his A-game ( no pun intended) on this run, weaving great subplots with top-tier super hero action. Plus, he dealt with every crossover imaginable; giving his book an air of importance to the Marvel Universe. I’d also like to hear a bit more in the way he left the book; and effectively all of Marvel, due to a disagreement with editorial.

[@blunderingfool]

Pro-tip. It is improper to put a space before punctuation. Only afterwards. Like I have in this post. I’ll point out that apostrophes generally don’t need spaces most of the time either.

[@andrewtaylor940]

There was a great deal of variety at Marvel and DC in the 80's. Remember this was when the Epic and Vertigo imprints appeared. Marvel had some trippy and brutal Space stuff. Strikeforce Moritori. dreadstar. Rocket Raccoon. (Trust me very few MCU GotG fans have read the original acid trip that was Rocket.) People also run into trouble overstating the 80's as a single time frame for comics. It really was very much 2 different periods. The early 80's, which begat the long runs of writers and some truly classic stories. Think the Clairemont/Byrne X-Men, the Roger Stern Avengers, the MArk Gruenwald Cap etc. And then there was the back half. With a fairly clear dividing line somewhere between Crisis on Infinite Earths and The Dark Knight Returns. The back half of the 80's is when the formulaic tone started to set in. The speculator bubble was forming, and the big 2 were falling over themselves to throw more and more on the shelves. That's When the X-Men and Spider-Man went BiWeekly, and the art kind of went to that odd sort of awful that came to define the 80's. Rob Liefeld was not the cause of this, he was merely a symptom. Late 80's is also when the non stop "epic" Event stories began to take deep root. And most of them are ones that are largely not remembered. Atlantis Attacks? Invasion? Inferno? The Evolutionary War? I think the best known example of this is the horrific Secret Wars II.

[@simonbarnett8668]

I do get your point, but I LOVED Invasion!

[@blunderingfool]

Just got finished reading through Inferno. One hell if a trip but I needed a reading guide in advance!

[@TheJohno95]

My favorite era of comics was from the late 70's up to the early 90's Death of Superman era. And I agree...There are high points from every era. There are plenty of books I'm loving right now! But there WAS something special during the 80's. I think one of the things which younger people can't conceive of....There just were not as many hobbies back in those days! Yes, you could play video games, but those bloops and gleeps got old. There was sports and outdoor things. But, for nerds, movies were not at the tip of your fingers. Or tv shows to binge. You either watched whatever was running day by day in reruns or watch the prime time new shows as they come out. Or you find a way to the video store. Which most parents didn't want to go to every day. So, comics was a fun hobby, because your other nerdy and geeky friends were probably into it to. We did something back then that I don't see much of anymore. We TRADED comics back and forth. That's how you built your collection up. And if a new kid came to school or they put new people in your class, it opened up a new world of potential collecting. So, with less things to get into, comics were really popular because you could pick up that issue of your favorite comic and read it anytime you wanted to. And the comic companies knew this and put a lot of work into the books. The comic stores existed mainly by back issues. You wouldn't see so many people hanging around the "new" racks, because they could get those at the drug store. They wanted to check out those bins of old books that their friends might not have. It was a different time. But, wow, what a time! And I know the day will come when the kids of today will be adults and look back on this time fondly. It's the Nostalgia Factor. It gets us all sooner or later.

[@wtk6069]

At various times, both DC and Marvel have experienced highs and lows, but the eighties were one of the rare periods when both companies were firing on all cylinders. Marvel had the Shooter era with its legendary runs, while DC underwent its own renaissance driven by the four former Marvel EIC's who were in exile (Marv Wolfman, Len Wein, Gerry Conway, Roy Thomas). This created a spirit of competition as they kept one-upping each other with new formats like GNs and square-bound comics, and exciting imprints like Epic and Vertigo. We were spoiled without even realizing it. We didn't understand it wouldn't always be that way.

[@noman6041]

The entire run of the Bronze Age was my favorite era in comics, But the 80's were definitely the high point of the comics industry. As i've said before, all the artists of today all draw the same and it's as if they are nothing but clones of the same artist. No one today has any individuality or personal style. Back in the 80's, every artist was different. Each one had their own unique flair and you could tell who the artist was just by looking at his work. Romita, Buscema, Byrne, Sienkewicz, Ditko, Kirby, Springer, Robbins, Miller, you name them. Each one had his [or her] own little artistic 'signature'. I could be in a comic store and look at a cover from across the store and i would be able to identify the artist. [And i constantly amazed my friends with this ability and i was never wrong] But today..all the artists look the same and it's what you said, about computer art and rushing to get the product out. It was also a defining time because it was comics made without any kind of agenda except to tell a great story with great art. That was all that mattered back then, was good stories and good art-not like today when everything is 'socially driven'.

[@Damackism]

Great Video Perch! The 80,s were great for comics. They still had that silver age feel of adventure but also had advancement in art and story telling. Standards in comics as far as writing and art got raised during the 80,s.

[@sith7183]

Loved The Xmen In The 80s

[@JohnnyStroud]

I think you're SPOT-ON. I started collecting in 1974, and STOPPED in 2003. I collected everything from the Legion of Superheroes, the Micronauts. As an artist myself my collections were based the artist. Mike Grell, Neil Adams, John Byrne, Dave Cockrum, all of the best who were able to take you from your country kitchen table to the streets of New York's Hells Kitchen. The stories were so good, as a young Black male reader, I had no problem at all identifying with my favorite characters, no matter what their race or background. That era is now gone forever, but the legacy of memories still carry me to this day. Thanks for this review.

[@illithidlore]

The 80's were the best at everything. But yeah, people definitely have biases for when they start things/when they're the age it's targeting. Just roll my eyes at the people who talk about how "pop music was only good when they were in middle/high school" and "new cartoons aren't as good as the classics" meanwhile they're talking about Cartoon Network circa 2006.

[@redvitaminblue]

Some additional arguments, both internal and external to comics themselves: 1.) Kids could afford them. Most cover prices were between $0.40 and $0.75 in the 80's (until 1988 when they finally surpassed $1.00). The value of the dollar has doubled since the 80's, but the cover price of the average comic has risen close to 1000% since then. Buying a half dozen comics for a few bucks and still having money left over for a soda and chips isn't something a kid can do with their weekly allowance anymore. 2.) Kids could find them. New comics were still available everywhere in the 80's - at grocery stores, at gas stations, at toy stores, and of course, at the corner newsstand. The move towards the exclusivity of direct distribution in the 90's and beyond made it harder for potential consumers to remain interested when the product wasn't widely visible in the commerce environment. 3.) Kids cared. Comics were still a significant part of youth culture in the 80's, at least until late adolescence when the stigma of reading comics began to apply to those who continued to be interested in them. Video games and KZbin videos are now the dominant cultural products that monopolize the interests of kids (and adults, really). 3.) And kids experienced something novel and unique The idea of massive, company-spanning, multi-title crossover events started in the 80's (Secret Wars I, Secret Wars II, Crisis on Infinite Earths, etc.) but it didn't feel like a burden back then. Those early years of events were exciting; they integrated and connected the characters of a comic book universe on a scale never before seen. It really was mind altering for readers - the structures in our brains responsible for making connections and building complex schema got a boost. Now, annual events like these reliably induce glassy-eyed fatigue and furrowed brows of frustration.

[@Deephouse_Gent66]

On a related tangent, many in the comments section below bring up Jim Shooter. As a Marvel guy myself (at least until recent years), I also believe Shooter was a fierce creative force at Marvel, pushing the artists and writers to constantly take chances and top themselves. I certainly don't deny the impact he had and the successful output under his direction. Wish Marvel had someone like that now. Shooter's only issue was that he began to believe HE was The Beyonder, which was why many under his reign bitched about him and cheered when he was gone. His NEW UNIVERSE subset of titles was definitely an example of his hubris towards the end. But 80s Marvel would not have been what it was if not for Shooter. And I also have to credit DC comics for shifting gears in the 80s, realizing that their house style was not financially viable for the 80s, prompting them to clean it all up with Crisis and employing some of the most legendary talent responsible for much success at Marvel (Wolfman, Perez, Byrne, Wein, Roy Thomas, Miller, Roger Stern). The 80s was definitely a time of innovation and creative expression the likes of which have been seldom seen among the Big Two.

[@comicbooksincahoots9578]

80’s comics still carry a certain Iconic feel to the characters and the worlds they live in. I believe it to be the heyday of comic books.

[@InfamyOrDeath-__-]

I wish I had comics here when I was growing up in the ‘80’s, I really missed out on so much. I was in my 20’s before we got U.S. comics here.

[@paulydee5106]

Great observations, Perch. I really enjoyed how Claremont would run a sub plot in parallel with his main storyline. It added a lot of depth and made things interesting. It also kept the flow of the story consistent and allowed the reader to get invested in the characters without any breaks. I was actually surprised to see that same approach used in the current Wolverine series written by Percy. I don't know why more writers use this approach! There's such a great rhythm and flow to it. I think the amount of time spent writing and creating a book largely contributes to what a "legendary run" is. A longer time on a book allows the writer more flexibility to develop characters, introduce new ones organically, and build a loyal fan base. The 80s were an incredible time for comics. One of my favorite 80s characters of all time is mohawk/punk Storm! The 90s were also great for the artist and the collector.

[@jimmyjam5453]

Really the 70s and the 80s were the best. Best ten year period is 75 to 85. Art, writing and continuity.

[@davidmullen6011]

Lovely article! So much I agree with and so much I could talk about, but I wish you had considered the huge role that the editors, editors in Chief, and the general creative philosophy that powered Marvel and DC through this era contributed to the enormous successes and continued legacy of this decade. I doubt you could easily name five editors working in todays DC and Marvel, but in the 1980s we were all aware of who a books editor was. When you think on the editors and their role, their influence on finding, assigning, and developing creative talent was phenomenal. Talented editors like Ann Nocenti, Marv Wolfman, Roger Stern, Jim Owsley/Christopher Priest, Denny O'Neil, Roy Thomas, Carl Potts, Louise Simonson, Jim Salicrup, Mark Gruenwald, and more that I'm forgetting(!), brought forth highly respected runs on titles in that editorial capacity, but it says so much about their success that they proved equally gifted as _writers_ - they understood the writing process, and this is probobly what in turn made then highly successful editors, they could spot talent and shepherd that talent, and this is a breed of editor that belongs wholly to the 1980s. The lived and breathed Comicbooks. The 1990s were the demise of this breed of editor as the publishers lost their perspective and equilibrium and went after quantity over quality - heavy franchising of all the main titles bled all the strength and flavour out of them, I can pinpoint the exact moment I stopped buying all franchise titles and that point was 1995/96. The Spider-Man books, the Superman books, the X-Men books, The Justice League books, all dropped. As the quality by that point had absolutely crashed. The quantity had far outstripped quality. But I digress, back to my point - the value of editors in that era. Jim Shooters importance and influence on marvel Comics in the first half of the era is a topic in itself. But the 1980s saw his counterpart DC Comics Dick Giordano unexpectedly take a tour of the British comics scene and bring to the publisher a completely different style of writer and artist back for DC Comics - key names like Grant Morrison, Kevin O'Neill, Alan Moore, Dave Gibbons, Alan Davis, Brian Bolland etc. Giordano was one of the several key figures to implement the Crisis event and the hugely successful relaunch of their key titles in 1986/87, DC Comics saw its creative peak reached by this time, with so much fresh talent and energy on display and now beginning to promote itself it can be forgotten that their were some gifted but less public editors working hard to make all of this possible - Karen Berger's success on Wonder Woman and the Legion of Superheroes would lead to her key role in the Vertigo imprint. Andy Helfer's stewardship of title like Bill Sienkiewicz & Kyle Baker's The Shadow, the Giffen Justice League relaunch, Byrne's Man of Steel relaunch, Denny O'Neil's editing of Batman that coincided with the Tim Burton movie... The creative background and the publisher system that allowed these highly capable people to become skilled editors, influencers, and capable talent scouts doesn't exist today. It dies out somewhere in the early 1990s as commercial aims swamp and submerge those beliefs in creativity and craft. It was very apparent that come the millenium editors for the big two were not generally hired for their literary or creative backgrounds and abilities, but purely to sit in an office and commission work to be published. And whatever creators have come along in the last 20 years few have achieved the status and creative heights of the talent you saw come out of the 1980s. Roger Stern Versus Brian Bendis...? Hmm. Debatable.

[@odingodhood1459]

I read comics from the mid-70's through the mid-90's. At the end I just couldn't stomach the excesses of the industry any longer, and 'real' life demanded too much of my attention. I still remember the disappointment, and relief, I felt when I went into my comic shop and canceled my entire pull list, but I still have those 5000+ comic books. Looking back from today, the 80's were the pinnacle. I remember the excitement of discovering the Clairemont/Byrne Uncanny X-Men in the late 70's and and madly searching and trading to fill in the earlier issues I'd missed. There were no comic shops at that time. We got comics off the rack at the gas station. I remember setting up my first pull list at a comic shop and the excitement of 'new' formats like Graphic Novels (The Death of Captain Marvel), 4-issue mini series (Wolverine!) and the 12-issue maxi series (Secret Wars :-\). I was there for Byrne's Fantastic Four, Walt Simonson's Thor, the first look at Iron Man's armor room (stealth armor!) and Frank Miller's Daredevil before Miller was a 'thing.' It was a magical time when the Marvel Universe seemed to span a myriad ever expanding list of titles with an amazing continuity. I also remember joking with friends about this black-and-white independent mini-series I bought called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which seemed to be a respectful little parody telling the rest of the story after Matt was taken away to the hospital. Even DC got into the act by collapsing their ungainly multi-verse, shaking up their comparatively stale comic lines and telling some great stories. It's hard to describe how much of an impact comics like Miller's Dark Knight, Jim Starlin's Infinity Saga, and Alan Moore's Miracle Man had on my perceptions and expectations of comics. God, rereading this doesn't even do it justice. It's also been amazing to experience a echo of that magic over the last decade in the form of the MCU. High-point in human civilization indeed.

[@KalleVilenius]

I got into comics with Spider-Man when the Clone Saga was going on and it's a far, far, far cry from what I like best. Marvel was at their best during the Bronze Age, DC during the late 80s and early 90s. Basically all my favorite (western) stuff is from before I was born, with some important exceptions.

[@randyping6036]

Eighties, I'm living in the Eighties.... Damnit, Killing Joke always starts playing in my head.

[@drewkre]

It's all due to when you were intro into comics. I can feel nostalgic about the first comics I read and enjoyed. So for me the high mark for American comics was Claremont / Silvestri X-men comics. I can't remember what I ate yesterday but I can remember that my first X-Men comic was issue 232 and I still remember what that cover looked like even even today even though I haven't had a copy of that comic in over 20 years. But it's also why we remember our fave music or movies or whateve we are into from our past. It's your first experience into a world you haven't seen before like your first love. That's why I will also say that Nirvana & GNR & Soundgarden are best music ever. Now your point on creative teams staying on a title for a long time in years past is also very true. That's why I mostly read manga now. If I read 20th Century Boys I can be assured Naoki Urasawa wrote & drew it. Same with Tokyo Ghoul. I will be enjoying Sui Ishida's art. But we've gotten to a point where Marvel & DC are IP farms for Disney & AT&T. The comics are still being produced to those of us 30-50 with too much disposable income. But Disney & AT&T only care what movie or TV show they can use the IP for to make the next Disney Plus or HBO Max show and make a return on their investment. So I don't mean to be negative; but the best course of action if you love comics is to not pay $6 an issue for Marvel or DC Comics. Buy manga & Image comics. You might be happier and remember that 1980's love for comics. My unasked for 2 cents : P

[@jazzmazz9214]

I think something you see with smaller running titles, is that they're wrapping up big storylines in their books very abruptly in single issues. Like, there are comics which have great build up for a final conflict, then have abrupt endings with the heroes overcoming the odds or personal struggles they were experiencing and defeating the villain in a single issue. I think that's more of a problem with titles being made to end abruptly a lot of the time than necessarily what the authors actually wanted for their story(though that could be the case sometimes I'd imagein).

[@BradRedacted]

The 80s (for Marvel) was great. Claremont’s x-men, Byrnes fantastic four, black suit Spider-Man, kid who collects spider man, secret wars, new mutants, inferno, Wolverine solo series, Denny O’Neil Iron man, Walt’s Thor. I could go on for days

[@albinothunderbuns1997]

Great points. Speaking of the '80s being experimental & also of Mark Gruenwald, how about that Squadron Supreme maxi-series? It explored similar themes as Watchmen, but I argue that it's a more accessible story for the average reader and was just as experimental for Marvel as Watchmen was for DC.

[@SamGuthrie1977]

Yeah that's a great mini-series; one of my favorites. It's also not as dark or nihilistic as Watchmen, which I appreciated. The message of Squadron Supreme is that a well-intentioned tyranny is still tyranny and they're always destined fall. It was a very pro-liberty and pro-freedom theme which I always thought was cool. Not sure you'd see that from today's Marvel.

[@heroineburgh]

The 1980s in comics were when artistic giants strode the Earth: Perez. Claremont. Moore. The Simonsons. Byrne. There was a very healthy group of independent publishers, and there was the Black & White Explosion (which for us, at least, began with Love & Rockets). Respect was given to fans and creators alike, and Comicons were major events for promotion of the art. Today, these same kinds of people would be lucky to have a low-to-middle tier KZbin channel..and some of them do.

[@evandavid2816]

Just to add a slightly different perspective here...I was a British 80s Kid (born in '79), and got heavily hooked on comics during that time thanks to my Mam buying them for me from the local newsagents...but coming from the UK, we had some very different stuff available over here than was the case on the other side of the Pond; for example humour strip anthologies such as the Dandy, Buster, Topper, Whizzer and Chips, and the still-running Beano; some Asterix books, a reborn Eagle running classic Sci-Fi/War strips such as Dan Dare, Johnny Red, and Charley's War (I was too young for 2000AD, and I wasn't reading sports comics like Roy of the Rovers back then either...but I digress); and in particular the TV tie-in comics produced by Marvel UK such as the Real Ghostbusters, Thundercats, and above all Transformers, which is still my favourite comic of the era if not of all time, especially the UK-only stories with the likes of Death's Head, yes...? (Might just be nostalgia talking, though...but I doubt it!!!). I wasn't, however, reading American superhero comics much as yet, apart from occasional reprints of stuff like John Byrne's Man of Steel (probably still my favourite take on Superman, by-the-by), and some Marvel hardback Annual anthologies...in fact, I remember reading what I later found out to be an issue of the original Sin-Eater saga and being very nonplussed at how different it was from the Amazing Friends cartoon, yes...?! In fact, I didn't get into proper US comics on a regular basis until the mid-to-late '90s, with the likes of the post-Heroes Reborn Avengers and Fantastic Four, DCAU-based comics such as Batman Adventures, and the hugely under-rated Untold Tales of Spider-Man from Kurt Busiek...then I went to university, found a proper Comix Shoppe (sic.) in Swansea, and never looked back, yes...?

[@CousinCreepy]

An excellent era for comics! The freedom of creativity was so great it gave birth to the awsome Vertigo line in the early 90's. Comics seemed to mature at the same rate that I was.

[@TheThotPolice]

Very good point and definitely a contributing factor. The 80s were definitely the best. Another reason? Creators weren't outright TELLING customers not to buy their book. Re: Kelly Sue Deconnic

[@mitchnissen7175]

The late 80's and early 90's is probably my favorite era. Peter David's Incredible Hulk, Danny Ketch Ghost Rider, and The Silver Surfer are the three pillars of my comic fandom. I do have a strong love of the 70's with books like Dr. Strange, Tomb of Dracula, Werewolf By Night, and Captain Marvel. And then there is a section of the 00's that I love too. The 60's are untouchable, of course. This last decade though I have been more disillusioned with comics than I ever have been before.

[@TheNoddyone]

As a newish reader who dove into comics during the Rebirth era I have this pseudo-nostalgia for the pre-flashpoint DC probably starting with Infinite Crisis leading up to Blackest Night. Final Crisis, 52, Battle for the Cowl, Dickbats, Wally Flash, etc. That era just feels like the opposite of the Golden Age but in a good way. Despite living in a world tainted with darker themes, there was a plethora of superheroes and villains who had earned years of continuity and established lore/intrigue.

[@erikwirfs-brock2432]

Lots to love about 80's comics, the direct market was growing, genre publishers outside the big two could support actual series as opposed to glorified move pitches, fly by night outfits trying to create the next ninja turtles having raw energy despite being amateurish, creators inspired by underground comics sharing the same rack space and audience as artists and writers trying bring more sophistication to the big two, and marvel and dc acting a little more like book publishers and trying to create success by letting proven creators go a little wild on special projects.

[@Jimmy-hf6ny]

Interesting. That last part... I think there is a huge amount of talent out there who have access to resources that we never did in our time. I lived in a small town. If I wanted a reference photo of an animal or tree, I had to walk many kilometres to the library, look through dozens of books, then bring them home. Now, with the internet, I could instantly see everything. Even the work of other artists half way across the world. That helps a lot with growth. It helps to 'be' it when you 'see' it. And to your point, because of that growing talent pool, it puts pressure on people to be at a more advanced level of preparedness or maturity once they start working. You are 100% correct that there is not much space for more under developed artists to hone their craft. I realize there are exceptions.

[@josephsokolowski271]

I absolutely agree with everything you said about my favorite decade of comics. Also like I have said dozens of times in multiple comments about the past, one and done stories are absolutely missed in today’s comics. More people can enjoy a comic they just picked up on a whim or to try a new series or character better with one and done stories. That being said, I actually started reading comics in the 70’s. I didn’t start reading superhero comics until the 80’s. For me Archie comics, Harvey, Richie Rich comics specifically and Disney Duck Books ruled my comic life for 7 years before I read my 1st Spider-Man comic in 1983. There’s nothing I remember more then those reprinted Carl Barks classic stories. Those books are what made me want to read, keep and collect comic until the day I died. However no decade defines my love of all things comics better then the 80’s. It destroys every other decade in my humble opinion.

[@artwithmichael5547]

Nick Roche on Transformers. Bagley on USM. Ottley on Invincible. Still happens.

[@SeekerLancer]

The 1980's was when creators who grew up reading the silver age books got their chance to write the books and tell the stories they always hoped would be told. The iconic characters weren't completely played out yet and there were new opportunities to take things in bold new directions due to the evolution of pop-culture and the changes in comic book readership. The variables in place created a perfect storm for comic book storytelling. It's a time of opportunity that can never really be replicated again, only referenced and emulated. While "best" is subjective I think it's inarguably that the 80's were a peak moment when the industry reached its some of it highest points both creatively and culturally. I agree about the longer runs. It gave you time to live in the character's world for a while and the status quo wasn't being shaken up every year like clockwork which has frankly made a complete mess of a lot of characters. I don't think the old format would work today though with how intolerant people have become towards filler and episodic content. With modern decompressed storytelling every issue is a key issue and if a story is bad that usually means you end up having to ignore an entire run on a book and hope the next person does better. When it works it's phenomenal and you get a graphic novel's length story but it leads me to wonder why they don't just write graphic novels and release the whole story at once. Picking up floppies is sort of a waste these days because you're only getting a small chunk of story that may not end up being good. I always just end up waiting for trades these days so I can judge if I want to pick something up based on reception.

[@JohnAPrescott]

Yes, by far the 80's ruled in comics. So many creative giants doing their thing and just killing it. The whole spectrum, art, inking, writers....all just blowing us away each month. For example, when was the last time you heard of anyone rushing to the shop or wherever you got your comics from to get the next issue to actually see what happens?

[@sketchasaurrex4087]

Late 80s - Early 90s Yes, that's when I started collecting comics. I remember many times sitting on the tile floors in front of the magazine rack reading 2-3 comics and when it was time to go having my parents come get me and I would be leaving with a 4th(& maybe 5th) comic to buy with my allowance and read.

[@earlsmith7428]

I believe it to be the 60's. It was the start of the Kirby/Lee, it was the start of Star Trek, there was still humor in comics: Inferior Five, Angel and the Ape, the craziness of DC Covers, the bright colors, Barks was still big with Disney comics.

[@goredongoredon]

I'd be interested in finding out what your perspective is about the alternative publishers during this time. It was in the 80s that I began reading both new comics and re-issues from Last Gasp and Kitchen Sink and I really began liking many of the Fantagraphic titles, such as Love and Rockets. While most of these comics were difficult to find in the regular comic shops (at least where I lived) they did add a lot more variety to the industry.

[@artmin100]

The best era of New Mutants was Sienkiewicz's 80's run, I think New Universe and Power Pack also expanded to the way superheroes were approached.

[@phelipegoncalves9355]

The 80's are my favorite era of comics, my favorite story came out in the 80s (Wolverine by Claremont and Miller), Marvel had it's best moments under Jim Shooter as an editor and so on. I don't think it was a formulaic era, a lot of variety is found. And good point about the runs being longer. This makes a huge differece.

[@zac6358]

Idk man been reading claremont x men a issue a day and loving it, this stuff is golden.

[@ShadowWingTronix]

For me 80s comics were more fun and willing to experiment. You could pick up an issue and get a full story or one you might pick up the finale to in the next month or so. They were also available more places, so I got to learn about comics I might not have otherwise, like Transformers and Robotech. (Found that last one at a convenience store while on vacation in another state.) Plus I was watching Super Friends at the time and that's what convinced me to buy my first Firestorm comic after he debuted there.

[@rudigerkipferl4479]

You're definitely having a good point there. Legion, New Teen Titans, X-Men, all those major runs having the same writer for a long time. Probably there's a reason why one of the few memorable runs in the 2000s was Geoff Johns memorable Green Lantern run... 🤷

[@Improbi]

You forgot one thing like I knew you would. Marvel had Jim Shooter. He kept a tighter grip on continuity on the whole Marvel universe, kept slacker creative types (his biggest vocal haters) from constantly being late & books shipping on time brought out Marvel's second & last golden age before the dark age of junk bondman Ronald Perelman & his cronies made Marvel start it's steady floundering for decades.

[@DroidApproved]

I got sucked in by Secret Wars 1. I moved to the indies pretty quickly though, with TMNT being my favorite (pre-TV show of course). Heavy Metal was also pretty big at the time, and to this day Tex Arcana is one of my favorite series.

[@kinotek]

Another possible influence on the overall quality of '80s books (along with the new direct market allowing for greater experimentation) may have been the advancement of creators' rights, wherein writers and artists not only got paid more but now had a vested interest in creating--and owning--original characters. Such incentives no doubt had some effect on creativity and productivity. (An effect that was magnified big-time in the '90s with the Image boys--although many would argue that, without the legacy demands and editorial oversight of a DC or Marvel, that artistic explosion became too much of a good thing and led to the gimmicky ADD tendencies of the following decade.)

[@jmen4ever257]

Got 13 to 6 of these books. Indeed, some mighty fine stuff came out back then. Those who quit in the beginning or middle of the 70s missed out on a lot.

[@PorcelinaTheQuiet]

Yes, my parents tell me all the time about the great decades of the eighties and nineties. "Best time for being a kid/teenager." Once I figure out time travel, I might go visit. Just kidding. :p I'm not arguing though, when reading through those times comics seemed to hit a creative peak that they've struggled to get back to since. Even a mini-series like Secret Wars II. I know it's made fun of, but I really found that a lot of fun to read. Like an eighties time capsule. And you are 100% correct in that giving creative teams time to gel and find their strides is very important. You have to hire the right people, but give talent room to breathe and build and refine their voice please. I think if they give people three, four, five year runs it could give them time to really create something memorable. (A competent editor who knows the word "No" would be essential too.)

[@GenghisDon1970]

Agreed, 80's comics were the best to me as well...but then I was born October 1970, so the 80's were my teen years. I STARTED around 1975 though.

[@keng.2468]

I grew up in the 80's, so I totally loved the great books that came out then.

[@daveassanowicz186]

Comics in 80's did new things while respecting the old stuff, making it all matter

[@TrueBagPipeRock]

music, too. Everything was "reach for the sky".

[@brandonperlow9091]

80s is where some of the big storylines came out and hard to beat. Marvel was like an all-star team with classic runs. DC post-crisis did the first reboot, and hired the best creators who did moon shot runs of their characters. If Marvel as a whole sold better and had more cohesive runs, DC had the best individual stories- DKR, Batman Year 1, Man of Steel, Watchmen, WW, Legends, Killing Joke, and Death In The Family, not to mention Crisis itself. Lots of great indies- Heck TMNT came out then. I think right now at least for the Big 2 its hard to replicate this time period for a variety of reasons- much of the other media didnt quite get as big, nor was there an internet, among one.

[@dariusq8894]

The 80s were an explosion of creativity in general and that carried through to the comics industry. Most of my favorite stories were from this era.

[@luciferfernandez7094]

I did the exact same comment somewhere else where they were being critical about the “standard Jim Shooter comic book” : without learning the basics of those “standard” and allegedly artistically restricted comics none of the Image guys would have found their “style” and neither the likes of Lapham, Miller and Sienkiewicz. So, yeah, having writers and artists learning how to be consistent is a middle to long term investment - one that particularly Marvel seems uninterested to do.

[@chuckgibson3973]

People did things a little differently back then. Byrne spent the first year or so trying to draw like Dave Cockrum to a degree to keep the title's look consistent. JRJR did the same thing, imitating Paul Smith for the first several issues of his run. When Miller left Daredevil, they tried to keep Klaus Janson... again, to attempt to maintain consistency. Now, when new creators take on a book, more often than not, the first efforts are toward doing a 'bold new take' on the title. They often dismantle whatever storylines the previous team set up. I guess it's just a contrast between trying to get new readers and trying to retain old ones. The focus has shifted.

[@Sempermortis84]

Marv wolfman said the same a couple years ago a NYCC. Not enough time now to have longer runs.

[@greymatters6015]

I was an avid collector in the 80s and 90s. I will say that for super heroes, the 80s was absolutely the high point. But for "mature" stuff, the 90s reigns supreme. All the Vertigo stuff, Dark Horse, even some of the Image stuff was all excellent.

[@garyballard4657]

I been collecting since 2nd grade & have a spinner rack dedicated to just Marvel titles 86 through 89 as well as a book shelf of 80s Marvel TPBS. Also have full runs of most the Marvel mainstays from 2000-current as well as a glut of 60s,70s Marvel my DC collection is similar but much smaller by comparison...IMO the 80s was a great decade for Marvel and DC comics in general. My next question...WHAT MADE COMICS IN THE 80S So AWESOME?

[@DevaNeeramanii]

I actually agree with everything you said here....100%

[@Deephouse_Gent66]

What I've noticed is that collectors tend to be very fond of comics from whatever period he (or she) came of age reading them. For me, I was born in the 60s, so the 70s is my sweet spot for nostalgic comic love... But same as Perch, I also love just about everything from the 60s as well as the 80s. The 90s was the first era where I saw QUANTITY dominate the industry over QUALITY, so to Perch's argument, I believe the 80s was the last era where companies, editors and creators invested heavily in the QUALITY of their output. In the 90s, it was all about what can we do to sell the most copies, make the most money, create the biggest fast-cash gimmicks, etc., and much of this was done by crapping all over the ideas and creative inspirations of the 60s, 70s and 80s.

[@miltonfarmer1139]

Well said. The best X-Men comics were/are from the 80's. Early 80's Spider-Man taught me how to read. I have questions, though. I have heard you mention a few times now that there are other genres being produced by indies. I am looking for recommendations for romance (not porn) and I guess anything else besides horror. Super-hero and horror are the only two genres I see, even in the independents.

[@jojobizadTRASH]

Comics did what cartoons and TV could not do in the 80s in my opinion. So much innovation throughout that period, bringing a lot of great people like Miller, Byrne, McFarlane, Seinkievich, Claremont, etc to the forefront.

[@theinvisibleskulk4563]

I have the impression that the 80s were when melodramatic phrasing (and not just in dialogue, but in narration and thought bubbles) was most predominant and that the later years of that decade were when it started to get old. Is this accurate? The other thing about melodramatic diction is that each writer tends to reuse the same phrases multiple times. Were there ever entire runs where a single phrase recurred repeatedly every issue?

[@lukejohnson3715]

If I were to give an argument why the 80s were great, I would say the proof is in the pudding. You look at all the books published at the time and MANY of them are remembered. Even parodies or toy tie-ins like Ninja Turtles or ROM are greatly remembered. However, I do think you overlooked one very key factor of the 80s: the direction of the companies. Specifically, Shooter running Marvel like an actual business and DC having a renaissance of how they were doing comics post-crisis. I want to specifically emphasize Shooter and specifically his cardinal rule of either making sales or you’re fired. I’m not saying it would fix the current state of things at Marvel (or even DC) but it would most certainly weed out the children from the adults (you know who they are).

[@open_mike_eagle]

like how you dont get the wwf stars of the 80s without them honing the craft in the territory system

[@moonjellykevin]

I got my first comics in the 90's, but I got got "serious" into comics in the 2000's. . . That said, I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I actually really, really enjoy Vol.1 of The Spectacular Spider-Man. I remember wanting to read Spider-Man in the 90's, and I never quite enjoyed it as the 80's Spectacular Spider-Man with Bill Mantlo.

[@kilemiller6519]

1986-1994 are my favorite years of comics.

[@signupstuff]

This may just be nostalgia but the 70s felt like the last time most people bought comics just to read them, and you could find them in any convenience store at prices kids could still afford. That lasted through the very early 80s and then I feel like something changed. The speculator market started to take off, and comic companies responded with increased production, cross-overs, alternate covers.. anything to get you to buy moar.. pop-up comic-only stores proliferated.. Ida know, the whole experience turned me off.. so yeah, i look back at the 70s with more fondness.

[@jevazquez2]

I see his point but to me the editor of the book was almost as important as the creative team. Moore when he wrote Swamp Thing had Len Wein and Karen Berger and Miller had Dennis O'Neil on Daredevil and the Dark Knight Returns. Even in the 90s this was true. Think of James Robinson writing Starman but having Archie Goodwin and Peter Tomasi as editors and Garth Ennis having Tomasi as an editor also. Those books would not be possible by having good editors.

[@normlenhart9565]

80s books were great, no doubt. I'm a 90s Xmen guy for the art but the 80s had the best stories, hands down. I recently got many of the trades from the era to fill in the gaps in my collection and reminds me the art of the 80s is also fantastic. Different, simpler, but fantastic.

[@robberblood]

In the 80s the writer and editor would have a one on one relationship, but today storylines have to go through a whole committee which seriously dilutes the original ideas the writer had.

[@petermanetas5162]

I think the 70's were more experimental because they were the precursor for the 80's. You had sword & sorcery, science fiction, martial arts, and black and white magazines in the 70's.

[@InfamyOrDeath-__-]

I think the only story that I’ve read from the ‘80’s is *Crisis* *on* *Infinite* *Earths.* Dont think I’ve read anything else from that era.

[@darktoylord]

The 80's is when I started reading and when I started drawing. My first real drawing is of Wolverine. At the time it was awesome. Now it is horrible. But this is the era that shaped my art.

[@TheRavenShadowsWolf]

Now that you point it out - though I did know he'd worked on Spiderman heavily to start - I can actually draw the parallels to Spawn by costume. The build's a little beefier of course, more like venom mixed with Peter, but the costume choice is basically verbatim a symbiote; and the hood is close enough to Spidey that I can see Todd making the choice to make Al's face like run over hamburger just to be able to work more with what he was used to. Even as he very definitely gave the character his own forged and unique style from the off. There's a great deal of influence, and as you point out, if someone tries to be the swiss army knife very few people will come out as anything more than a jack of all spades, with no diamonds to master in the club. I'm less versed in Jim Lee's body of work to draw similar comparison, but you've made a good argument. By and large I'm not sure I could name a favorite era. I've been a more casual 'collector' of comics but mostly I'm invested in the actual characters and the histories. I've tended to look them up in Databases, piecemeal because I've had to, in order to sate the interests. The cartoons are sometimes decent to excellent, but sometimes the story lines are adapted different so that can be frustrating too. I think I love too many characters in concept and through arcs to be able to afford to heavily invest in their comics. Unless of course I win the lottery. I do have a drawer I can fill though, since recently... so by the time all this halaballoo gets done with and we can all go out again to be free, I'm still planning to check out my local game/comic shop. If I can find it still hopefully standing, and open.

[@ZebOswalt]

Cool vid as always. Yep the 80s were awsome. Heck the 80s even had Epic comics. A line based on Marvel wanting to do Heavy Metal, but still. It was good. Yeah Mc Farline was good on Infinity Inc. But, defiantly not as good as he became on Spider Man. I also liked Jim Lee on Samurai Santa. A SalSon comic. Though looking at the stuff they currently put out not sure Marvel and Dc are trying to put out good stuff. I'm sure it's out there. I'm just kind of Oy with what I see now. Yep the 80s were great The Long Bow Hunter started in that. My fav run of Green Arrow.

[@GoldenMean743]

Practitioners and academics have been calling the 80s a comics renaissance for years (some call it the "British Invasion"), but that isn't because of the bulk of comics that came out. Sturgeon's Law is universal for all decades of any art genre, though, yes, some decades stand out more than others because of the 10% of the genre are so groundbreaking and memorable. Still, the bulk of 80s comics were written with a weak vocab and were certainly formulaic. Anyway, the 80s did produce some groundbreaking comics, yes, but this has to do with more of a focus on writing, scripting, and panel design, and on American writers being pressured to write more like the newer British writers. More importantly, new writers started having a vocab of over a few hundred words. To exemplify, think of this: DC started hiring British artists like Bolland and Gibbons in the early 80s which led to the hiring of Moore for Swamp Thing. Moore knocked it out of the park with Swamp Thing; writing, panel layouts, vocabulary, and philosophical depth like nothing that came before in history of superhero comics. But after Moore got pissed at DC, they hired others like Gaiman, McKean, Milligan, and Morrison (technically Scottish). And the industry also saw Miller experimenting with manga and American comics forms with Marvel, and some could argue that British writer Claremont was doing some good things (not on the level of DC, though). On top of this, American writers were expected to start writing experimental, revisionary comics, too. Would there be a Crisis, for example, without Moore or Miller? What happened in the 90s? Early Image is fairly symbolic of that: a bunch of artists thought they didn't need writers. Also, the art was as if a 13-year old bisexual was holding the pen: veins, bulges, asses, tits, etc., to the point of absurdity (Platt is the peak of this shit). McFarlane did realize they needed writing, too, though, only after feeling the pressure of shutting down and eventually selling some of the properties. But you can still find 10% of the whole that stand out. So, I primarily disagree with your emphasis on maturity and your ignoring these core writers who shook up the industry and actually made works that had non-comics fans noticing. But I also disagree with the overgeneralization; most comics in the 80s were formulaic and not that good.

[@JefferyHHaskell_Author]

Writing, like art, has evolved over the years. I think the 1980s hit a "level up" in storytelling. The arcs became complex, the characters turned from caricatures to three-dimensional people. You had writers like Chris Claremont. On top of that, art also evolved. We got people like Todd McFarlan and Jim Lee. Combined, there was a huge leap in both art and storytelling happening back-to-back. The 70s to 80s is like going from SD to HD. Huge difference. After that, it was just incremental increases that don't stand out. Then... 2007 was the beginning of the end. Comics became agenda-driven. The backlash against the fans began. Publishers pushed events several times a year and stopped giving books time to mature. They've limped along since then and occasionally they produce great comics, but it's the exception, not the rule. Is the love of the 80's nostalgia? Maybe... but... there is no denying the story and art were far above the level of the decades before.

[@mattnevins8733]

It’s an emotional connection as well for the time you got into it.

[@Alex-yx5qh]

I answer this question in one word: Claremont

[@texasscifi3431]

Less cross overs for Marvel so less confusion and having to buy across titles. As for DC it was a vast improvement post crisis with the main titles like Superman and batman and Justice league. Plus legends launched JL and Suicide Squad. The 80s were the best because the narratives were clear. Less messy with cross overs and just plain realistic (for the times) fun.

[@robbyrobot3303]

I'm a 90s kid born in 1985, but I also prefer the 80s. I liked the artwork on the 1990 card series, and didn't like the extreme stuff I saw at the store when I would go.