Why do people intentionally forget the diverse past of comics?

What gives the narrative that comic shops and publishers were an unprogressive boys club until the last five years? Why do people do this?
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#ComicBooks #TopComics #GraphicNovels

[@chrischreative2245]

Let’s not forget about Storm leading the X-men and winning leadership of the Morlocks in a knife fight in the 80’s

[@ComicsPerch]

There was a time period where both of Marvel's biggest teams were led by black women. Something people forget constantly.

[@porassrivastava8242]

Storm is bae

[@kelpietales4503]

@@ComicsPerch IIRC that was one of the many things that annoyed people about Chelsea Cain's Mockingbird series besides the infamous Feminist Agenda cover. In a scene with Mockingbird flashbacking to a child trying ever cliche to get superpowers she eventually comes to the conclusion she can't be a hero because "she didn't have balls" and showed a group of prominent male heroes. People critiquing that scene brought up that not only did she ignore prominent heroines but going by the male heroes' costumes she was referencing an era where both the X-Men and Avenger where lead by woman to prove her "point" that she herself couldn't be a hero because she wasn't a man.

[@priestmorrison6564]

.... no power... And a knife

[@JustSomeGuy]

None of these people actually read comics. That's the problem. Morrison's run on X-men has become the new Strangers in Paradise. It's the thing people say when they want to pretend to like comics. They did the same thing with Y: The Last Man, Scott Pilgrim, and Preacher. They have no knowledge of comics as a medium, and no interest in reading the stories. They just pick the book everyone talks about and claim they like that.

[@Bolbi145]

Spot on as usual, like these are the same people that hype up Saga to be the comic to end all comics.

[@ALDAL]

you right

[@GHOSTRIDER373737]

You and perch are the best comic commentators.

[@Elementa2006]

The issue is simply that there are two sides who are on two separate extremes, one side complains that "there isn't any representation" while the other counters "because there’s no need for representation because nobody wants that" while in fact the comics had representation for years. Those same sides also complain about politics in comics with one side arguing "comics need to discuss this issue" while the other responds "comics shouldn't be political and be more like manga", even though comics has tackled themes that could be considered political in the past, the same thing with manga and anime that tackled themes like bigotry, social injustice, war and political intrigue. Hell, the "Godfather of Manga" Osamu Tezuka could get really "political" in his works even his mainstream works like Astro Boy and he wasn't very subtle about it. The same thing applies to European comics. The problem is that writers today aren't very good at it and both sides either forget/ignore stuff like that happened or simply pretend they didn't happen in order to push an agenda. That's why I'm on neither side of the SJW vs Anti-SJW spectrum as I find both sides to overexaggerate things or come across as extremely annoying.

[@ALDAL]

@@black__bread man dont compare ennis with morrison, morrison was good with his all star superman and his batman runs, but read hiw earth 2 wonder woman and try not to throw up

[@Epiphany77]

As a gay man, I COMPLETELY agree with you. Comics used to make me view things from a different perspective. Now, I feel like I'm being scolded for thinking or believing something I never thought or believed.

[@insectwarriorjojo7780]

as gay born in 2002. I agree. plus I miss Carol Danvers aka Ms.marvel. and chachters grew up on. kinda hate what turn by wokestiers

[@fenrirtheicewolf2019]

Because they want to seem like they're so stunning and brave by doing this for the first time... while in reality... someone else already did it... way before they were born.

[@derrickcrawford1081]

And way better might I add

[@calebelectric]

Facts . Blue marvel for example

[@johnnyjamboogie6614]

It’s a marketing strategy. They’re trying to appeal to people who think everything needs to be cleansed of bigotry.

[@vjm3]

And did those characters way more justice and effectively. They lose on every front.

[@Freefall347]

@@jamesneese7663 "Cis het white men." That's all they think they need to know.

[@TheVanillaQueen]

One of the most heralded comic series of all time, Neil Gaiman's Sandman, had trans characters, gay/lesbian characters, strong independent women, tackled issues like rape, deadnaming and disassociation of families due to the aforementioned issues, and one of the Endless was genderless and referred to itself as "it". This started in the late 80's. Jill Thompson was probably one of the best artists on that book. This is some entry-level stuff. Current creators and news outlets don't talk about (and probably haven't read) one of the most celebrated series in comics. If they'd read it at all they would know what they're doing isn't new and lacks all of the soul and imagination. And this isn't even including some of the other hallmark Vertigo titles (and the topics those cover) like Hellbazer, Shade the Changing Man, Preacher, Transmetropolitan...

[@kingbash6466]

Comics were surprising diverse even as far back as the 60s. The issue is that most modern comic writers don’t really know the history behind it, and with how long running comics thrive off of rebranding and retconning, they are actively encouraged to ignore it.

[@MrPonytron]

Yeah! I hate retcons so much

[@fenrirtheicewolf2019]

They forget the diverse past because if it's existence Is shown they will have no excuse to destroy all the characters and stories that irresponsible companies give them. Prove me wrong.

[@AliRadicali]

I think it has more to do with self-aggrandizement. It is vital to the self-image of these creators that they are seen as pioneers of social justice, so they trick themselves into believing the world was a racist, sexist hellhole before they blessed it with their superhero cartoon book. I think vandalising existing characters has more to do with artistic resentment at having to write and draw other people's characters rather than their own. If you genuinely believe yourself to be god's gift to comics, it must really grate to not be able to sell your own characters when the seventy-year-old creations of problematic white dudes, like Spiderman or Superman continue to sell to this day.

[@drewtheunspoken3988]

@Fenrir The ice wolf, is "prove me wrong" a signature or are you actually looking for a debate? I mean no offense, I'm just curious.

[@LouisPorterJr]

YES! The problem is the people who need this, will not hear this...

[@Kane429]

You deserve a goddamn standing ovation for this one.

[@NunoXEI]

Perch deserve a standing ovation for almost all the videos coming out recently. They're pushing through the overwhelming binary polarized takes that exist on here (or Twitter etc).

[@shawnn1412]

I used to be irritated by the fact that ours is an ignored generation, but now, like old shoes, it's pretty comfortable. The main difference between comics in the 80s and 90s and today is that back then, writers tried to introduce new characters, and have fresh ideas. The basis for many story lines at that time was that the person (Peter Parker, Steve Rogers, etc.) had a separate and important existence apart from the "suit". Current story-lines place the suit above the person inside.

[@empyreanvole]

Exactly. The suit isn't Spider-Man, Peter Parker is. Likewise for Thor, Batman, Superman ad nauseum.

[@sharosecomics7793]

Yeah, I think Stan Lee said that Peter Parker could have been “Walrus man” on the outside and it wouldn’t matter because Peter Parker is the real hero/character.

[@GatewayintoComics]

Everyone just wants to confirm their own bias about... Everything. It's rare for individuals to be able to curb their convictions.

[@empyreanvole]

I remember the insinuation that Black Panther was the first black superhero ever, which was then changed to "well, he's the first one to have a Marvel movie." The Blade series (THREE movies) was literally amongst the most popular action movies of their time. I would often slyly ask these people with "what if they made a black Superman movie starring Shaquille O Neal.." (it was called Steel, and it was awful) or "What if Spawn was an African American..." and you have my third one "what if like, the Avengers was led by a black female superhero!" The thing that I remember most about Monica Rambeau in the 80s was that it was never a big deal. She was the obvious best choice for leader and I literally never heard anyone make a big deal about it... ever. But we were GenX Kids, and nobody cared about the race of the character. You know what was controversial? The downfall of Yellowjacket. Yellowjacket got a raw deal, man! #teamyellowjacket #PymSquad

[@AllPwrflSteve]

Finally, another Pym fan! I always thought he was one of the most interesting comic book characters. The issue of West Coast where he contemplates suicide was one of my favorite issues.

[@heroineburgh]

What if you had a TV show about a black Bruce Wayne, and called it M.A.N.T.I.S.?

[@empyreanvole]

mission accomplished!

[@calvinbethea3369]

Back in the day in the black community we had the term "conscious." It was used for those of us who were politically astute and socially aware in the black community. Now the larger culture has adopted the term "woke." The difference between the two is one is based on research to develop awareness about ones history that is not told by the media and how your place in society is affected by the status quo. Woke people just spew rhetoric, there is no research beyond a tweet or wiki post. Back in the day you had to read and research. Now we have the wealth of human knowledge at our finger tips and we just go for sound bites. Current creatives are not invested in the history. And this in part is because the culture of comics had changed. Comic racks in retail stores were unreliable. And for new time readers you had to find a shop and search for back issues to complete stories. We followed not only characters but favorite writers and artist. The average comic fan was a curator, historian and researcher. Now in attempt to be relavent new creatives write and change without knowing history, with out doing the work. No understanding of subtlety or nuance. The true nature of evil is to try to change something you don't understand.

[@Madbandit77]

I agree. There's nothing wrong with being socially conscious, but the "woke movement" has no sense of history, distinction, nuance or wisdom. It's like they want to be righteous for righteousness sake, and that's not a good thing. It comes off as narcissistic and shallow.

[@MinistryofOtaku]

@@Madbandit77 What you are describing is something called "crusaderism"

[@heroineburgh]

Not to mention how much better "conscious" black music used to be in previous generations, whether you're talking about Art Ensemble of Chicago, The Last Poets, Black Uhuru, Afrika Bambaataa, Tribe Called Quest, and so on. Our record collection is full of these artists. What does woke culture today have that can compete with any of that? At this point, it barely creates "art" at all.

[@Madbandit77]

@@heroineburgh Great points. Art inspires and stimulates thinking. It's not supposed to proselytize. Otherwise, it's just agitprop.

[@jamesmcclure3907]

I think its the biggest problem with comics nowadays - stories are written with a fear to not offend, and those sort of barriers disrupt the creative process.

[@Bolbi145]

Same for cartoons

[@jimmyjam5453]

No, I think it's just a lack of skills. Poor writing and often poor art.

[@reubennichols644]

- " " Disruptive to the creative process . " " - A M E N . . . Brother James . - - - - A M E N - - - - -

[@reubennichols644]

" . . . lack of skills . " - Hmmm . Good counter - point . -

[@reubennichols644]

- - - I ' m confused 🙂🙂🙂

[@Sly_404]

When victimhood is your currency, you ignore anything past and present that runs against your narrative.

[@joeherb]

Man Perch, you hit the nail on the head! It feels like these people are trying to discredit and erase what the writers and artists that came before them did. That way, when these people try do the same thing as their predecessors (badly mind you), they believe they can take credit for its existence.

[@drewwill6497]

You are not alone in your frustration. I always feel that the focus should be about story first, while respecting the past and adding something new to the tapestry of the comic characters or universe.

[@keithclinkscales7599]

Long time coming. Thanks for voicing this.

[@NunoXEI]

YUP! Exactly this. What is worse is knowing that even expressing these thoughts on Twitter or KZbin etc will bring out the torches and pitchforks. It's exhausting just being worried that this is where things are at.

[@NunoXEI]

@Tracchofyre 100%. This is what "civil discourse" used to be all about. Topics have nuance--stuff doesn't always have to be expressed is super-generalist terms. This immediately removes any position from discourse. No point in attempting rational debate with irrational absolutist mindsets. It's shocking how long this has gone on. Maybe we're in an era where things pivot away from this garbage.

[@Sousabird]

Because it's hard to seem like a trailblazer when you're following someone else's path

[@JasonAndrew1973]

The Monica character was a badass AND a perfect intro into the Avengers.

[@jacobssheep912]

I completely agree, Perch. :/ And the worst part is that when you point this out, people will just move the goalposts on you and say "Oh, that character doesn't count because of X X and X." There's just no winning and it's all so tiresome. Hope you had a good Easter, man.

[@christianames2161]

I'm a relatively new comic reader, and I've just been getting into the milestone books. I really like how icon and rocket disagree often and can clash when deciding how to approach a given problem. I started reading Dwayne Mcduffie's works because I've always loved the Justice League series that he helped produce and write. Because of that show, John Stewart is also my favorite GL. He and the flash felt like the most relatable human characters compared to the other members. On another note, it does kind of bother me when people act like the whole industry was a bastion of non-diverse characters and racism. It bothers me because companies follow this train of thought and use non-white and/or LGBTQ characters as a marketing crutches rather than actual characters, advertising what their demographics are rather than what makes them interesting. This ends up hurting diverse characters in the long run because people could end up associating them with bad writing. A more beneficial strategy would be to do what everyone wants and just write good stories with good characters, then focus on marketing how enjoyable the stories and characters are.

[@MrDanielcool]

Your new and you get this congratulations welcome to being a true comic's fan. It's like being the x men trying to support a bussines that hates us lol

[@christianames2161]

@@MrDanielcool I tend to ignore most new series anyway. One advantage of being a newer fan is that I have decades of awesome stories to go through, so I can ignore most of the current industry drama.

[@Bolbi145]

When I was a kid I thought John Stewart was the original main human Green Lantern, when the Green Lantern movie trailer was on tv I saw Hal Jordan and I was like “who is this? Where is my man John Stewart?”

[@MrDanielcool]

@@christianames2161 smart

[@MrPonytron]

I always love seeing new comic readers joining the fandom. Seeing them enjoying the older books more than the newer is the cherry on the cake for me, though 😁🤣

[@treymykel]

I mean everything you said in this video was truth. I mean that's why I'm confused by today's comic book creators and writers and media acting like Diversity never exist. And them ignoring the history is the reason why we're pissed by this bullcrap. They said they want more diversity and it was there but like you said they want everything to be the first while ignoring the history. It is very frustrating and it's getting tiring.

[@treymykel]

@Learn German with Steffi yes that's what these new generation writers and creators and today's society that's what they're asking for when they say more diversity it means less white superheroes and less White characters in general if you got to replace them replace them but make sure they're not white that's the real thing that they want to do and it's getting kind of annoying and aggravating to be honest.

[@masterzero7146]

Simple answer: The creators can’t brag about their achievements of creating “diverse” characters (e.g.: Kamala Khan) and how them not being accepted is because of their immutable characteristics if those kinds of diverse characters already existed and were accepted (e.g.: Dust, M)

[@derrickcrawford1081]

Whose dust?

[@masterzero7146]

@@derrickcrawford1081 Dust is a member of the New Mutants that was introduced around 2003. She's a Muslim from Afghanistan with the power to turn her body into sand. I mentioned her and M because people like to say that Kamala Khan is Marvel's first Muslim superhero, when M and Dust are both Muslim superheroines that predate Kamala by many years

[@nooctip]

Ms. Marvel welcome to diverstiy with a muslim superhero. Uhm I beg your pardon. My name is the Arabian Knight, and I premiered in Hulk 257 back in 1981. Shush you don't exist.

[@JurassicRod]

It's a good way to divert attention away from how creatively bankrupt they are. They can black wash or gender swap a character to piggyback on that characters existing popularity without having to actually create anything new, then claim it's for ''diversity''.

[@jimmyjam5453]

I agree, it's just poor writing more than anything else.

[@JefferyHHaskell_Author]

Ryan Johnson said it all. Forget the past, kill it if you have to. There are people who think that anything that came before them is worthless. They have to destroy it to make their own voice heard. It's not enough to make their own characters, they have to erase the legacy of everything that came before.

[@MrDanielcool]

Which is funny cause wasn't the character who said that whole motivation was to be what his grandfather was

[@carbootstudios2459]

Because some people want to think they did the first of something, when they actually didn't.

[@derrickcrawford1081]

Couldn't that pretty much be applied to everything

[@carbootstudios2459]

@@derrickcrawford1081 maybe so

[@Ultra_Light_Beam]

@@derrickcrawford1081 well yeah, but there are “firsts” in the world. And if being first matters, then people shouldn’t memory hole the past so they can call things “first” falsely.

[@mfekett]

Perch, even though we are of different ages, (I'm late 30s) we both came of age when doing progressive things did not come with a social/financial reward system. Pushing a progressive character in a non-progressive era meant that the creator is more likely to be authentic and is doing so because they believe in the character, not because they themselves will level up in a reward system. John Stewart, Storm, Monica Rembeau feel legit because they were given life by people who wanted to tell stories, not by people who wanted to update their Twitter bios.

[@rabbit42]

You're not alone. A Gen X here who was reading her brothers' Marvel comics before finding my own jam with Los Bros Hernandez. Those books were chocked full of powerful, unique, women having extraordinary adventures. I think it's a problem of the youth today not wanting to look backwards for anything. It's all very now now now and a competition for most likes or followers or fame. With a mentality like that anything that happened before them becomes irrelevant.

[@ronniestryke570]

No one realizes these things. The Falcon had a nephew Jim Wilson who tragically died of HIV in the Aids awareness memorial issue #388. You brought up alot of interesting stuff on this one. Thanks Perch.

[@renzomonero]

It Hurts me, and hurts me a lot! This is one of THE BEST videos you've done Ever, Sir! Because, you are giving us the voice for the "TRUE comic lovers" this is how I feel! I love this medium, and I don't want to see it dies! Bravo, just bravo, Sir!

[@nickjanecke6688]

I’ve honestly been getting a lot more into older DC stuff, from 40-50 years ago now. Just picked up a bunch of collections of 70s-80s Legion of Superheroes as well as the JLI series. It seems like those are pretty diverse groups in terms of their lineups.

[@brion0220]

The JLI was awesome. I really need to re-read that and Justice League Europe.

[@nickjanecke6688]

@@brion0220 the omnibus I got for JLI (from the most recent set of collections for that series I believe) seems to be collecting JL Europe as well, so you wouldn’t have to find that separately. Unless you already have that stuff of course : p

[@brion0220]

@@nickjanecke6688 Yeah, got a few early trades of JLI then single issues of everything else. The omnibus collecting both is a good idea. Especially for that last big arc.

[@phelipegoncalves9355]

They forget because: 1- it was for narrative purpose, not propaganda that these characters existed 2- modern art is all about the statement, not the quality. So, if number 1 happens, it doesn't matter BTW: - She-Hulk by Byrne is awesome and she is very up to all tasks that she got - Power Girl of curse calls attention because of the costume, but her run was very good with Palmiotti and Judd Winick writing

[@Dennis_Heaton]

I started reading back in the 70s, a lot of "natural" diversity was happening at the time and we enjoyed it for the different storylines they had. It was about the characters and their morals and choices, not where they put their sexual organs. Just like any other characters, some lasted, some went away, but they weren't forced on us repeatedly if they failed and we weren't called names for not buying their books.

[@Elementa2006]

People online forget a lot of things about comics and media especially if they were too young to be exposed to it. We had ton of comics with female leads, some of them even tackling issues writers are trying to tackle today (and failing), 2008's Captain Britain and MI13 had one of the main protagonists Faiza Hussain a Pakistani-British Muslim who started out as the POV character in the first arc of that run as a civilian paramedic and a superhero fangirl (sound familiar?) who suddenly gains powers after being hit with an alien weapon during the Skrull invasion of Earth. Milestone tackled social issues like racism before Twitter existed, Peter David's run on Supergirl tackled subjects like racism and homophobia, the 90s had characters like Superman tackle issues like bigotry, hell the concept of legacy heroes isn't new either. But today, one side thinks this is a "brave new" concept in comics while the other side thinks it's a serious taboo that was "broken" by current writers, while both sides fail to realize that this attempt of "progressive agenda" in comics isn't a new concept, it's just lately with the raise of social media it has become more obvious and more pandering without an attempt to make the characters memorable outside of being a token character. I feel these recent failed attempts are damaging the legacy of comic creators who actually made comics diverse in the past with one side going "comics weren't diverse enough because previous comic writers were racist so we need diversity in comics" while the other side goes "of course diversity doesn't sell because the target audience is mainly white male readers so nobody is going to accept any diverse characters.", completely ignoring that comics were quite diverse in the past 30 years.

[@inezvalentinus5759]

My 2 cents, the writers in the 80s grew up in the shadow of the racial unrest of the 60s and the Vietnam war. The writers of today grew up in the shadow 9/11 and the war and unrest that followed. They are both similar in that they want to try to address the wrongs they see in society. But the difference is the prevailing cultural attitude. Back then it was Martin Luther King Jr. who was a guiding voice of unification and a resulting attitude is of proving that these character are just as competent and worth as any other. Now, I don’t see any real guiding voice to society and the attitude is “we don’t need to prove anything, it’s others holding me back, and I need to tear down anything that is opposed to me.”

[@alexlugoart]

Perch, you read my mind. I have been saying this for years. Comics diverse past is being forgotten, or dismissed on purpose and it's a real shame. I grew up in the 80's and 90's being an X-Men fan especially, and it was always interesting to see where Chris Claremont and the other X-writers were going to have a mutant pop up. The X-Men travelled all over the world and recruited mutants from all over: Storm, Nightcrawler, Thunderbird, Warpath, Sunfire, Banshee, Psylocke, Dust, Bishop, Northstar, etc.. It was a real treat getting introduced to these new and interesting characters. But even better, was that these characters were well written and came with not only their amazing powers, but their problems as well. Each one of them was on their own hero's journey and made it out the other end a better character and a better hero. These characters didn't have to be perfect or over-powered, they just had to speak to us as human beings. Thanks for your great videos!

[@rolandkatsuragi]

Not only do these ideologues forgot about diverse character. But they also openly *ignore* the legacy of diverse creators.

[@simonbarnett8668]

I watched that Michael Moore episode! He went to IBM to ask the CEO/or some other high level exec to format a floppy disk and others. He was ignored until he went to a Ford factory and the Chap running things came down and did an Oilchange! A lady I worked with shouted me out to a Henry Rollins spoken word concert when I was working in Sydney(Australia) in the early 2000's and it ended up being one of the most important nights of my life. When Pied Piper Cameout to Wally, I loved the way Loebs framed it with Wally wondering if the Joker was Gay and Hartley's response about his thoughts on the Joker not even having an ability to love was a great moment that didn't require huge press to make it seem "Important". I was reading every book that "Became" Vertigo when it launched and the diverse/thought provoking stories in not just the 'Big' talked about titles like Sandman, Doom Patro, Swamp Thing and Hellblazer but Shade the Changing Man, well post Morrison Animal Man and the titles like Sandman Mystery Theatre(an all time favourite of mine. When Guy Davis really got Wes and Dian down, I was always disappointed when a different artist drew the 'Quiet Moments' between the two) the Invisibles, Preacher and fantastic minis and oneshots post launch(I really loved the Shadows Fall, Egypt and Goddess minis and the 'Vertigo Voices/Visions' OS's off the top of my head) would put most of today's "Thoughtful" books to shame. Thankyou for articulating things I've been trying to put forward in the comments far better than I have been able to achieve. Cheers Mister Perch!

[@cmleibenguth]

History isn't being erased so much as forgotten and unknown. The critiques are made by people who have not opened any of those back issuss. They think Marvel started with the MCU and haven't looked into the history of all this pre Iron Man 1 movie. What we as a society need to do is stop giving credence to critiques made from positions of ignorance.

[@rayboltzfan]

Right on, Perch. Few things drive me crazier than erasing or rewriting history to make yourself, your agenda, or your wokeness look braver and more revolutionary than what it actually is. Thank you for the great commentary!

[@MrPonytron]

I've been buying and reading 70s, 80s and 90s comics a lot recently and they still hold up. They have a lot of actual diversity, not forced diversity. I read a Hulk book from 1977 the other day and there was a black guy who seemed to be a really close friend of the Hulk. I honestly wanna look more into his character. Also, another character who came out as gay was Northstar and this was in the '90s when stuff like that was still a somewhat taboo subject. I was born in 1993 and started reading comics in 2008. Since then, however, I've been enriched by the history and lore of comic books and the characters in them. I too hate that people nowadays are trying to erase comic history! Keep making these videos! They're very informative and I always enjoy watching

[@noman6041]

I am always telling people there was diversity in comics 30 years ago. There was Bill Foster [Black Goliath who later became Giant Man] As you mentioned, there was Monica Rambeau and John Stewart-there was Luke Cage [who was the comic book answer to the 'Blaxploitation' era of films popular at the time] James Rhodes, Dwayne Taylor [Night Thrasher of New Warriors] There was Hector Ayala, the first hispanic super-hero [The original White Tiger] Firebird [from The Rangers] Poison [From Amazing Spider-Man-remember HER?] Defensor..ALL of the New Mutants were diverse, you had a vietnamese girl, a native american [not the first-there was 'Thunderbird' and 'Red Wolf' and 'American Eagle' plus DC had some too] and a black, brazilian teen. The X-Men were diverse. There were australian aborigines, hindi characters, and do you remember 'Cloud' from The Defenders? A being who could be either a male OR a female? [Like the original 'Starhawk' from 'Guardians of the Galaxy'] Plus, there was the female character explosion from the 70's spawned by the women's lib movement-Shanna the She-Devil, The Cat, Night Nurse, and this is when the original 'Ms. Marvel' who was Carol Danvers was released. I know i give mostly Marvel examples here, but i was never really a DC fan even though i used to read a few of their titles, but Marvel has always been more diverse than DC. Anyway, people need to go back and read past comics to truly get a grasp on the rich history of their diversity instead of complaining.

[@AllPwrflSteve]

Firebird gets no respect. She was even an Avenger! Also Living Lighting who was Hispanic and gay waaaaaaay before America Chavez was.

[@scottandrewhutchins]

Steve Gerber wrote some brilliant comics in the '70s that don't get enough recognition. Most of his best stuff came out before I was born.

[@Karl_Burton]

If you don't like history being re-written, you wouldn't like the UK right now

[@skytowergnome4664]

I read in a Groo the Wanderer comic something that applies here. "History is written by the winners and told by those with the loudest voices." We live in an age where if you don't shout constantly then you vanish, at least in the eyes of the social media universe. In days of old a writer let his or her work stand for him. There were interviews, but beyond that it was rare for a writer to be in one to one contact with his fans. That's about the only thing that has changed. Now a writer is in constant contact with the fans and feels the need for the fans more than ever. The writer has the be the best, he/she has to have done something no one ever imagined before, let alone wrote. If the writer is not that then he/she won't be noticed on twitter. There will be no following and since social media notice seems to have replaced sales as the barometer of whether or not a writer gets hired or not, then they have to pursue likes and tweets more than they have to hone their talent. The story doesn't have to be good, it just has to generate buzz. Also history is not widely known as much as it was. Perhaps it never was, but that didn't matter as much before this current age. The Posiedon Adventure and the Towering Inferno were in many ways retellings of the Last Days of Pompeii, but no one really brought that up or minded. Irwin Allen wasn't saying they were all new, just that they were good stories too watch (and they were). Star Trek didn't say that 'Balance of Terror' was something new or shocking when it reworked the movie 'Enemy Bellow', nor did Forbidden Planet claim to be better or different than the Tempest. But now if you aren't new, different, exiting; if you aren't so totally new or shocking what are the odds that anyone is going to hear of you? So the writers and editors at marvel and DC simply sell out, re-work old stories and hope that the few who do notice and say something on social media are attacked by faithful followers. It's a lazy way of writing, but it seems to work for them.

[@orinrayner]

I started reading comics in the early 2000s all because I found a "Marvel vs DC" graphic novel in a book store and it made me interested in learning who all the characters were. My favorite era of comic books is roughly from Zero Hour to Infinite Crisis. There was also a lot of Ultimate Marvel stuff happening. That was my entry point into comics. Green Lantern Kyle Rayner had a gay buddy named Terry. John Stewart was the animated Green Lantern (arguably the most popular GL to the general public). Storm and Bishop were two of the coolest X-Men throughout the 90s. Static Shock brought in a ton of new comic readers. In JLA, Wonder Woman was (and still is) part of the top tier Trinity. That was my introduction to comics. I didn't know about the controversy around diversity in comics until Miles Morales was introduced and didn't have a clue why people chose to either love or hate him before his title even started. I don't know where all the division came from, but it's okay to like comics and it's also okay to not like them. Not sure why there has to be a battle.

[@GELTONZ]

This is EXACTLY what they do to videogames too. Believe it or not, there were literally hundreds of games with female playable characters before even Lara Croft in 1996 but they are weirdly undiscussed or brushed aside. There was once an article claiming there were only 15 playable black women in the entire history of videogames and I made a collage of 150 of 'em just to prove them wrong. Not that it mattered, that article was printed in a newspaper and can now be cited as PROOF of racism and sexism in videogames even though the article is completely wrong. Eventually I realized that the only games which had "good female characters" were ones made by the writer/critic in question's friends or clients. Yes, clients. Some of these people run services where they can look at your game and tell you how to make it more woke and then your game gets praised by them as the ONE example of GOOD female characters in videogames. Everyone is a liar and the whole thing is a grift. That said I really need to do a history of women in retro games video myself. There's really a lot and some very interesting ones that need to be discussed more.

[@bjbrown6064]

That is a true statement, I always liked learning about the history of characters I grew to enjoy seeing. I didn't get to read a lot of DC or Marvel growing up but about 6 years ago I got the Marvel & DC encyclopedias. Those things are huge and have some basic information on a lot of characters that people would never know. But even with just the book, it doesn't contextualize the social climate of the era, the events in the comics around the character, things you would only know if you read the comics. This is sadly the problem, the people in power simply don't care, they are only here to use the lifeblood of the characters and turn them into shells of themselves on the big screen for exuberant returns. If they at least tried to learn about the comics, it would show in more intentional references line-wide, not just creator to creator. In the video, you mention how some of the things handled were brave for their time (black Iron man and etc.) and you're absolutely right. As it stands right now, the internet has us exposed to so many ideas and concepts that some of these ideas done in comics then are basically being done- or redone- now. as the idea of appeal to as many audiences as possible keeps surging and becoming a major influence in character creation and story development. It veers from telling a good story to sell to as many as possible, usually by any means necessary.

[@OtakuLad999]

We must share a muse... I was just thinking last night about the vital importance of Vertigo Comics, about how many new concepts and ideas those creators were bringing in, about how there was a move by DC (and the Independents) to try and expand comics beyond just superheroes again. But it seems like most (at least western) readers just doubled down on superheroes. There's been a sinister simplification of the narrative somewhere along the way, likely in late 2008.

[@HonduranHoneymoonhon]

I don’t know if I’d call making a gay character in the 80s brave. “Hey, look, my fellow liberals, who make up 87% of this company, I made a gay character.” -“oh, wow, you’re so amazing.” -“I read it; it was the best thing I’ve read in years. You’re incredible, bro.” --“Wow, what a time to be alive where I can read a story about a gay character. You’re so brave for doing this.” --“This Jurgens guy doesn’t want an 80% tax rate and thinks people should get married; he’s going to hate that you did this. You really showed him.”

[@inotaishu1]

It is really hard to tell in such cases whether such people really believe what they claim or whether they just lie. In some cases it feels like they want the past to be this dark thing that they now safe people from. They are the knights in shining armor slaying the evil dragon, the samurai killing the huge oni, the superhero triumphing over the supervillain, and when they can't find them, they (possibly unconsciously) create their own.

[@porassrivastava8242]

Cause it's convenient. The Millenial fans think comics have improved because of diversity, the older fans think comics peaked in the early 2000s. We all have our own biases.

[@BSLcreations]

This!! Been raging about this for 10 years. Things really came to a head in 2016 when Sony labeled all nerds as Biggots & Misogynists for not blindly supporting their Adam Sandler take on Ghostbusters. ...and there was Nothing we could show to change the narrative. -_-

[@paulydee5106]

"I grew up with Grant Morrison on New X-Men." Response: "Ah Eff You!". Couldn't have said it better myself, Perch.

[@InfamyOrDeath-__-]

I also don’t understand the problem with Power Girls boob window, these complaints come from the same people who have no problem with hardcore porn, who call Conservatives prudes with how they react to porn. But because a fictional character has a costume that shows a little of her boobs then this is “problematic” (I’m not using that word, they do).

[@MrDanielcool]

I can see the complainants of them being to big but i can understand the window cause she's a older supergirl trying to be her own person though expression

[@fmc291]

Side note, thank you for the comics you showed and the creators you mentioned. Some I have never heard of, so thank you. I will look out for those creators and comics.

[@MutantsInDisguise]

Because they think Frank Miller and Alan Moore are the ONLY ones who created comics.

[@josephsokolowski271]

Perfectly said my friend. I grew up reading comics during that same time you are talking about sir and absolutely loved those stories and characters.

[@flashrayvideos298]

2 love crew was awesome! Great video perch!

[@BakumanLakuman]

This is may or may not be a long one, so buckle in folks. I’ve always enjoyed superheroes, even from a young age. I got in with movies like Ang Lee’s Hulk and Raimi’s Spider-Man. I always glanced over the comic medium, mostly superhero comics, but I didn’t genuine enter into comic books until Brian Reed’s run of Ms. Marvel, just a year or so before the release of Captain Marvel in the MCU. I read every issue with an avid fervor and finished with a newfound love for the character. I read almost everything Carol Danvers, except the New Avengers, and I consider her my favorite character for nostalgia alone. I didn’t consider the ethnicity of the characters I was reading growing up until my dad, a blue-collar man without much comics knowledge beyond film, asked me once, “Why isn’t there a black Superman?” I looked one up on my phone and went, “Here’s one.” It was an image of an alternate Earth Superman, but I still don’t know his name. My dad’s response was a general “Oh,” and in a way, so was mine because that was only the second time I had witnessed a black Superman. Later in life, after I was already heavily involved in the MCU and general Marvel comic book continuity, I began to have a desire to see black heroes like myself. It’s interesting to me because nothing that I’m aware of onset this. Then again, Black Panther released, and I kept wondering why black people were flocking to it. Film-wise, Black Panther is very much more of the same within the MCU (the afrofuturism and political themes are second to none in the MCU). However, after seeing the reaction and how black people from all walks of life were coming to see the movie, I watched it again and began to understand. People always site Spawn and Blade as huge black superheroes, and they aren’t wrong. Blade and Spawn are influential pieces of black superheroism in comics and films, but as a black person, especially a black Southerner, those characters may relate to me emotionally, but not from a visual or mechanical sense. One of them is a vampire and the other sold his soul to come back home and be with his wife. As much as it may hurt some other people, those characters do not appeal to my specific demographic as much as someone like Luke Cage or Blue Marvel do. Their powers aren't pretty, and that matters when you want to identify with a character sometimes. Also, their identifications are with anger and loss, which is something black people deal with of course, but that is most of our depictions. We’re in that golden age now of showing different kinds of black people-quirky, aloof, dumb, smart, peaceful, etc. It isn’t that anger or loss are bad depictions; they’re authentic to a black experience. Sometimes. Saturation of that can be a problem though. Sometimes, little black girls want Moon Girl to say she’s smarter than everybody, whether that’s true or not. Sometimes, people just want to hear Blue Marvel tell off Reed Richards for not being transparent about a secret invasion of superpowered beings. Sometimes people just like seeing Luke Cage take care of his daughter. When people say black people are not a monolith, this is what they mean. A lot of black people, especially now, are looking for those stories where the story isn’t about the ethnicity, just the happenstance of that ethnicity. In other words, the hero is black, but there’s no reason. They just are. Blade and Spawn can exist, but anger and isolation are only a piece of the proverbial black experience pie. Anyway, I simply began to experience a longing to read heroes, and villains, who looked like me. I started by looking into Luke Cage, but I never saw myself in a hero like him because he came from a rough life in Harlem, and he was a little more community oriented than I had ever been. I liked him much more now, but I still don’t consider him my favorite black hero. Black Panther--I still don’t relate to him, but I love that he exists, and I enjoy his stories. Blue Marvel is the closest I find to someone whom I share some similarities with as someone who was always a bit separated from issues of ethnicity and wasn’t quite aware of how impactful it could be. (Honestly though, can we please get some more Southern superheroes in general, ones that aren’t Gambit, Rogue, Butterball or Resurrection Man?) Then I discovered Monica Rambeau. It’s peculiar because I found out about her in DeConnick’s run of Captain Marvel and I was just like, “Oh, she has a boat, and she knows Carol.” It wasn’t until years later after reading Ewing’s run that I discovered she was the Captain Marvel before Carol, led the Avengers, was caught up in the scheme of an extradimensional corporation, and also has had her name stolen maybe four times? Anyway, I saw how Monica was this fun black woman who had experienced a lifetime of Avengers-level events and has been central to more than a few stories. Yet, for some reason, Mighty Avengers was the first place I had truly experienced her. I don’t think the problem is necessarily diversity. Monica is now one of my favorite heroes, and though I don’t fully understand her personality, I understand her as a blue-collar black woman with an unsurety about her life, sometimes even feeling a lost with all the power she has, like her place in the world is both anywhere and nowhere. She even has that mother and father in her life who are there to support her. That might as well be my own mother. Yet, I found out about her years after my dive into comics. There are plenty of black characters, and there’s nothing wrong with adding more because there should be. However, the problem is exposure as well. Misty Knight, Wildstreak, Silhouette, Cecilia Reyes, Nighthawk, Friction, Whiz Kid, Sun Girl, Rocket Racer, Debrii, War Machine, Bishop, Falcon, Battlestar, Cloak, Bedlam-there are a lot of black characters. These men and women don’t get books. They don’t get books because they don’t have writers. The Crew is a book that I know people around where I am, who don’t like comics, would love to read, but it was cancelled. Twice. The Mighty Avengers as a street-level book with mostly black and Latino characters like Ewing did is a book people around where I am would clamor for (and generally did). I actually enjoy Riri Williams and Moon Girl a lot because I grew up around black women who didn’t get to have black women as role models except in sitcoms like A Different World or The Cosby Show, but I think these other characters were just lost to time. If you look at that list I just mentioned, some are newer or older, but regardless they aren’t featured. I feel like the attention is in the wrong place. Marvel should let these books like Ironheart and Moon Girl exist, but they should find female (and male) writers who care about both superheroes and supervillains, and the portrayal of black characters, and put those writers on books for these characters. Write good stories so these older black heroes and villains can be shown off. It’s a library that no one wants to dust off because they assume these characters are tired, tropey or just old, but Wildstreak is a disabled Olympic medalist with superspeed through mechanical legs, Rocket Racer is a genius young mechanist who just got in with the wrong people trying to help his mom (No son of mine is gonna become a criminal! It would destroy me, Robert.), and Cloak knows the evil of a society where police brutality, drugs, and human trafficking are perpetrated daily. Bring back the forgotten black characters and have them usher in the new ones. P.S. New Warriors rule.

[@stormcrow1970]

Pretty much agree with you. Current comics "fans" act like nothing "progressive" has happened in comics until 15 minutes ago because they don't know anything about comics *and can't be bothered to find out about the hobby they claim to be fans of!* I also can't stand that they want "progressive" tropes in comics at the expense of good storytelling. Meanwhile, back in the old dark days of comics being nothing but bigotry... Rhodey became Iron Man but people were OK with it because the stories were good. The Wasp became the leader of the Avengers but people were OK with it because the stories were good. Monica became the leader of the Avengers but people were OK with it because the stories were good. Storm became the leader of the X-Men but people were OK with it because the stories were good. It's almost as if "progressive checkmarks" isn't an actual story (nor is it even an actual personality type for individual characters). To be honest, if anything, comics have become less diverse since people have started making diversity an issue. Every creator shares the same talking points on social media, every character has the same personality and says the same things. I've read comics since the 1970s and without exaggeration there was more diversity in comics in the 70s, 80s, and 90s than there is today.

[@artwithmichael5547]

Agreed. I feel like you came at it from one side though. Lots of people ignorant of comics history talk like they are breaking ground but others say the ground shouldn’t be broken, even though it already is.

[@TastyGarlicBread]

Yes, this is me. I grew up with imported comics that were a few months behind because they had to be translated to my native tongue (we didn't get comics in english, we had them in A5 format in portuguese, and usually with 2-3 different magazines packed into one 60 to 80 page monthly book). I first loved the art and learned how to read with them, even before going to school. Then I loved the characters and the stories when I grew old enough to understand them. Comics were with me for decades, and of all my favourite were always the X-Men as an analogy for being different and persecuted. Back then I just took diversity as a normal thing for humankind and it really saddens me that nowadays that colorful past is erased and pseudo-morality is pushed as an achievement of today's ignorant "elite".

[@worldcomicsreview354]

They sell those three-in-ones in the UK too, in English! There was some controversy because Forbidden Planet, which sells the American originals day-and-date, said it was going to stop selling the months-behind three-in-ones, which you never saw there anyway, and people complained. So you got the ridiculous sight of those books with old stories shelved in among the new one, in a glorious mess.

[@TastyGarlicBread]

@@worldcomicsreview354 Something similar happened in Portugal, where the distribution was done by Abril, who was bringing in the comics from Brazil. I don't remember exactly when, but at some point the comics stopped being aggregated in a compact format and became just 1:1 translations of the american format, perhaps around 99 or 2000. I still liked the aggregated version a lot, because they would include 2 main character stories or 1+1 where the 2nd would be something a bit more obscure I would not have bought otherwise. Was great!

[@eldiboblo923]

Oh and p.s. The whole "black guy always gets killed 1st in horror movies" bit. Is just that, a bit. In fact, a lot of times they end up being one of the survivors. But that doesn't fit with the whole "holding people down" bs. As if 99% of us even have the means to do that, even if we wanted to...which we don't.

[@Bolbi145]

Come to think of it, Chris Claremont’s X-Men was super diverse: the leader was crippled, the main team included an Jewish Girl, a Russian man, a height challenged Canadian, a German Catholic, and a Black Woman.

[@wtk6069]

Yes, even short people were represented. A bold move for the times.

[@Bolbi145]

@@wtk6069 The difference was that their ethnicities were not their only personality traits.

[@HonduranHoneymoonhon]

Well, that’s because of Len Wein

[@Bolbi145]

@@HonduranHoneymoonhon Yes, but Chris perfected them

[@MrDooteronomy]

@@HonduranHoneymoonhon I've always admired Len Wein for giving the X-Men a leader who was in a wheelchair.

[@nerdrock8087]

This reminds me of a video that Zack did some odd months ago. Apparently, there were absolutely no movies whatsoever with a female lead or hero. But then this young, feminist reviewer watched "Alien" and was just blown away by Ripley's character. The reviewer was probably born 20 years AFTER Alien came out. And probably none of these people have even touched a comic book from the pre-Trump era.

[@mamodokod]

I love it when people say there were no heroes that looked like me that I could look up to when I was young then I just think about how Storm was the leader of the xmen was a strong power black woman, or I think about Blade and his successful movie trilogy or even Steel another black hero who got a movie. If these people actually read comics theyd know about M, Shiva, Luke Cage, Jubilee, Monica Rambeau, Constantine (bi and originally so, not changed later), Spawn, John Stewart, etc etc. Sometimes people just like to be ignorant to play up their message. But no let's make Constantine Black now cuz we cant think of anything better then the people on twitter will say Finally hes black like that's the way he should've been day 1, same with batman, they always say Finally?

[@DM-sy4hg]

People act like the Black Panther's first appearance was in Captain America the Winter Soldier. Kirby (not Stan Lee, who took credit) created the Panther in like 1968. Way ahead of the curve!

[@6AM_YT]

Ultimately, I think it's a marketing ploy. It's an attempt to rebrand comics away from the perception of what comics have been, even if they were never really that to begin with. If they can make something that seems old and dusty into something shiny and new maybe they'll attract new readers. I try not to take it personally.

[@dennisanderson3895]

I think a frustration many are feeling just now is the over-active trend of developing or changing a character just to check off diversity boxes. The 80s approached it in a more natural and organic way; the status of a character was acknowledged and even explored but without obnoxious self-congratulatory fanfare. Also much forgotten: the rise in the 70s of minority characters. Yes, it was almost completely white creators (and the CCA made urban expletives humorously altered); but I think they not only did a pretty job handling diverse characters, the introduction of those characters often inspired the minority readers who enjoyed to enter the comics industry.

[@kidicarus2215]

The problem for me, is that there's a lack of passion, professionalism, and love in these new creators. They want to crap on the old stuff, because their stuff isn't up to snuff.

[@MinistryofOtaku]

I will tell you the real reason why: They have all the wealth of diverse comics of the past 20-30 years but they reject them because it's not woke enough for them. They would have done research and actual work to make good stories, and people who are destroying the comic book industry do not want to work. They used these characters as a tool to inject partisan political propaganda or lectures instead of telling good stories. This is a major reason why comics are failing when they should be selling at all time highs during 2020-2021. They could not stop propagandize and focus on pure escapism for one year. They're going all in out of spite and to extract as much money as they can before the industry collapse and move on to the next industry to slowly subvert and destroy.

[@moonjellykevin]

I'm old enough to have cassettes. I am old enough to enjoy Henry Rollins on cassette. I wasn't quite old enough to watch Rollins perform live with Black Flag or the Rollins Band though. I had comics my whole childhood, but it wasn't till the mid-2000's that they became my obsession, and I was lucky to be getting in that zeitgeist of book stores just overstocking trade paperbacks more than they probably should've. I was more into manga, but it was also the time I could experience so many titles from "before my time" because things were collected and readily available. I definitely wouldn't have read a title like The Sandman, Zot, or even just reprints of old cape books if it wasn't for that time. I feel a lot of current writers are just misbooked. They could put out great books, but 9 times out of 10, it's just often not the project they are assigned. I also think comics history should be a must for anyone who is brought in. A lot of writers seem to be ignorant or just not care, which is baffling.

[@iceslick16]

The one thing that bothers me is that instead turning a straight character gay. Why don't make a series or a mini-series or some type of story arc that focuses on character that is already gay? There's a backlog of characters they can focus on and write new stories for and for some reason they just happen to ignore them.

[@davida.j.berner776]

It's not just a factor in comics, Perch. You can see it everywhere. I grew up in the 1970s, and yes, society was very different, but great strides were made towards eliminating racism and sexism. By the time my kids were growing up in the 1990s, they had friends of every colour, both male and female, gay and straight. The generation which succeeded them is not only denying how egalitarian the 1990s were, they're actually turning the clock backwards (and, ironically, calling it "progress"!) The ignorance is astounding.

[@jacobsedlack1173]

It's self-aggrandizement. How do you make yourself look more important? By claiming a good thing was your idea first and all previous iterations don't count because they weren't pure enough. Erasure of history to make what you're doing look better is a common tactic of the unimaginative and the tyrannical.

[@grimreads]

In my opinion, it is all because of the marketing pitch of "Hey, remember all those comics you don't read, because only middle aged men read? Well, now they are all new, all different and you can start reading them". Which makes sense but then you need books to keep those interested in the all-new-all-different reading.

[@timsanfillippo1805]

I think the difference between then and now is a millennial’s need for virtue signaling while expecting everything to conform to a single progressive point of view. In contrast, comics of the ‘70s and ‘80s explored topics and issues from multiple viewpoints. Moreover, social change was far more authentic and was a vehicle to tell better evolving stories. For example making Rhodey Iron Man was written in such a way that it made sense within the context of the story - unlike today where comic creators need a way to make Batman African American to signal that the creative team is on the right side of history.

[@harleymitchell6050]

Great comments. I always hace wondered how can those people erase the richness of pretty RECENT comic history! Thank you for bringing that UP.

[@abuqadimhaqq]

It irks me too Perch! Great analysis and video!

[@jacksonbowns1087]

How does it feel to be able to say "Back in my day, we had black female Captain Marvel leading the Avengers, and we liked it,"?

[@schlockthropus]

That is me Perch as Perch. I think one of the main reasons this is happening is because in the 70's and 80's the storytellers were talented enough to introduce this diverse characters and interesting situations with just great storytelling. They didn't need (sure they didn't have it but certainly didn't need) social media to pat themselves in the back and say "heyyy look, I created a black/latino/gay character". They created the character and tried to make the character work without the focus being race/sexual orientation/religion etc. Because they weren't so loud about it it makes it easier to pretend they didn't do it and we need this new generstion of "creators" to bring this diversity now.

[@SuperFlyGhost]

I stand with you Perch, as a solid GenXer and comic lover!

[@heroineburgh]

Also, thinking about the Monica Rambeau character: in the Falcon & Winter Solider show, Sam Wilson (Falcon) is retconned as hailing from New Orleans and owning a fishing boat, even though in the comics it was clear he was from Harlem. And yet Monica Rambeau's original story is that she was a harbormaster from New Orleans - very similar background. They erased Monica's back story and supplanted it with Sam Wilson's. How, exactly, does that support diversity in the industry?

[@Loco0089]

As a relatively new comic book fan, I agree with what you said. This video also inspired me to consider checking out the "New Teen Titans" collection from Marv Wolfman. Keep up the good work.

[@MrLorbu]

Very well said! I am in my early 40s. I spent the almost the entire last decade at University and made a couple of friends in their early twentys. It has been a lot of fun watching films with them, films from the 70s, 80s and 90s they were not aware of. Most of them were quite shocked to see how different the past was from what they were told (even in University). Most of them despise the fake virtue signaling of today now. Ultimately if we want to achive something we have to tell younger people of the past and that they are tricked into believing what horrible people we were. Also the puritanism has to stop, women, funny enough, especially actual real feminists (as opposed to the reactionary careerists of today, who wear feminism as a spiked shield rather than an attitude of emancipation), enjoy the depiction of attractive women in sexy outfits doing amazing stuff. Its the She-Hulk argument of what women like to fantasize about. The condescenting nature of todays discussion goes completely against what these young women actually want and enjoy (and thats why they are not intersted in buying the desexualized puritan comics of today, or to watch the movies of today.) Women fought for decades to have their sexuality accepted and no longer hidden, and now women (and lets face it, mostly men) who have never faced the adversities that women had to overcome in the 60s and 70s, claim that these warriors for a better humanity never existed or that they were wrong. And funny enough they use a lot of the same arguments the partiarchy of the 1950s and 60s used against women, today as feminist arguments, never getting aware of where these ideas come from and what their goal is. Its a sad state of affairs....

[@normlenhart9565]

It's not that 'people' forget. It's that clout chasers and people with agendas never actually read the books and don't actually KNOW the history. They are just here to use comics to push agendas.

[@patricktye3136]

what irritates me more are the mark waids or the gail simones, people within the industry, can choose not to acknowledge great writings and arts of the past which created milestones such as your captain marvel ( monica rambeau) and at the same time choose to ignore Roger Stern and John Buscema contribution.

[@slane1974]

Thank you for this one.

[@leonconcepcion2079]

Love John byrne , big John byrne fan.

[@spideysweb7484]

Great video and I have to agree. Monica Rambeau was an awesome character and she got pushed aside for some reason. You had the perfect C.M. for the MCU. Strong black woman who was a cop and became a super hero and was the leader of the Avengers too.

[@anerysium]

Certain people these days especially those who thinks their values, ideas and beliefs think they're better than everybody else and if you don't submit to it will call names and such will not bother to look into the rich history of - not just comics but culture in general. They will only look into the negatives instead of the positives, thinking these "new and brave creators" think they've done something new like a gay hero not realizing we had those back in the day. At least writers would concentrate more on giving the character some personality and history to make the reader care instead of just having a different sexual preference s or just being a different race - again something that was done back then without being loud and bragging about it. This is why it's difficult to jump back into Marvel and DC. Thinking they would appease and appeal to "people" who may or not have any interest in the medium. Reminds me when I learned about those reprints of Marvel and DC that I've bought back then because it's nice for a reader like me in the late 80's and 90's to look into stuff back then and how it became part of history. I guess "people" will never value history. Never looking into the good but always the bad. Sorry I typed a long winding post.

[@michaelhorning6014]

I was reading Luke Cage comics that dealt with racial injustice and police corruption in 1975. I was 9 years old.

[@commanderbracey7501]

I have every issue of Powerman and Ironfist. 👍

[@illithidlore]

Perch I think it really comes down to what you talk about where we lose things without creators being given extended runs. If someone wants to do a more inclusive story like how Rhodey became Iron Man, but they can't even be sure they'll have 20 issues on a given title, they have to rush things. Rhodey wasn't introduced and then became Iron Man the next issue.

[@christopherbatista4598]

Very well stated bud....I've been saying this for a long time

[@Psycopathicus]

Exactly. Neil Gaiman and Alan Moore and Grant Morrison and Chris Claremont and a whole heapin' lot of other people were doing this stuff long before today's crop of loudmouths were even a twinkle in their daddy's eye. One of my favorite comics back in high school was 'Top 10', from the 'America's Best Comics' line, and that counts among its core cast a gay man, a lesbian, several black women, and a black man who worships the devil (and also several socially and politically conservative characters, who are treated with equal respect - not something that would be likely to happen today). And that came out in the late '90's, which, as you point out, makes it very late to the table - there are DECADES worth of diverse and alternative stuff in comics, not always in the mainstream, true, but always THERE. Heck, I've read GOLDEN AGE comics, from back in the '40's, which speak out against racism and bigotry and tried to include a mix of other cultures - and this was back when you could genuinely get in trouble from the bigots for stuff like that. Comics have had diversity and inclusivity as part of their makeup from the very first, since our grandparents' days - the last thing we needed was a bunch of lazy Twitterati hacks to cram their own conception of it down our throats.

[@thehumancomet]

Listening to this made me thankful I grew up in the 80s and 90s, where when there was diversity and inclusion, it was done in an organic manner. Unlike today where hacks with no talent are doing these things for likes on social media but lack the talent and experience to make any thing meaningful.

[@chwatism2598]

I've been picking up stuff I would have never read when I started reading comics. I think the stagnation of current (big 2) books are making people fall back into those old issues. The glass is half full side of me wants to believe this will be a good thing for future creators.