Argus is the GOD OF DEATH - And the Jailer Was His KEEPER!

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[@brent142ful]

Honestly insane how consistent the uploads are with my lunch breaks what a legend.

[@primal4887]

You just made Shadowlands lore sound awesome! Phenomenal!

[@gormealbortrude5841]

That's not a good thing.

[@PlSSVORTEX]

@@gormealbortrude5841yes it is, shadowlands lore sucked but its in the game whether we like it or not so its better to make it sound good than pretend like it never happened.

[@Rikulat]

Shadowlands lore isnt bad. Its just like always in WoW transfered really badly.

[@jare3959]

I think that's because there are some really interesting pieces. They just were very disorganized when thrown together into a narrative.

[@jare3959]

@user-th7cw4dl3o 100%! What do they want? They literally wanted that to happen to Sylvanas and for Arthas to have a really meaningful appearance. The cognitive dissonance is wild. They also act like Arthas being the soul that was made to dominate Anduin was meaningless.

[@Neal_YouTube]

I love watching this dude blow his own mind with the lore theories.

[@NetherCrafterSMC]

I like how Zovaals voice keeps changing, especially in Zereth Mortis

[@maximerotzetter3587]

Man the feels you are giving me. It is just making sense of mysteries I thought would never be revealed.

[@TheGrey08]

damn dude that makes SO MUCH sense. They got their "order" from the Jailer aka the artist formerly known as the Arbiter

[@alfredshaker1101]

i cant express enough how much i enjoy your theory videos. ever since legion you've been my favorite lore guy for this reason. your videos back then made me come back from a break i took because of personal issues in the game. im so glad you decided to come back to WoW and continue making these!

[@CaptainFartastic]

The "serve" in Sylvanas I believe its like Azshara dealing with the old gods, like "im not your servant dude im helping you out but im not serving blindly". The arrow wasnt even a threat, she knew that, she was just making a serious point to his "partner". He understood and hence let her live and gave her soul back. Zoval actually is a pretty honorable cool guy if you get to know him lol of course once she was whole things turn around but in that moment I believe thats what was happening.

[@fadinphoenix]

Lol I remember the first time that Pyro watched that cut scene. That was the end of his WoW time for a bit :P Also, to ur theory as well, I had that thought way back at the start of Shadowlands when we first saw the red light energy hit the Arbiter. I love others hitting on this connection

[@andydataguy]

Love seeing your passionate discoveries. Keep it up brother!

[@anthonyschwartz1084]

Imagine if Pyromancer was a writer for the WoW Team... jesus fuck... the narratives are too good

[@CaptainFartastic]

Yo that remnant of argus hitting the arbiter's core to its respawn point was just like having two operative systems working against each other hence the shutdown

[@CaptainFartastic]

Yo that meltdown sliding down the chair while realizing hahahahaha my fucking chest

[@brianhukee9978]

I’m gonna go on a limb and say Elune is Azeroths keeper.

[@heyvaedryn]

The things you said at the end of the video where "higher beings" are seeking help from mortals reminded me of the end of Shadowbringers. The crew standing up to Emet and telling him that even though our lives are short, they still have meaning and purpose.

[@stoneguard2137]

@Pyromancer. I dont know if you knew but at the seat of the pantheon if you look in between were golganneth and khaz'goroth are sitting you can see an interesting looking planet. It looks like someform of magic is swirling around it and is surprisingly detailed. theres also a planet between khaz'goroth and eonar in the distance thats also very detailed.

[@Irudium1]

Zovaal collected his tier set.

[@charlayned]

You have really twisted my game brain here. I'm running through current content, doing the Tyr storyline. Everywhere I look, I'm seeing runes, images of Titans (go back to Halls of Stone and look), and the whole Guardians of Tyr story fits in with what you're talking about to the point that I'm looking at EVERYTHING in game with the eyes of "what signals and signs am I seeing that are more than just background or decoration."

[@snazzydrew]

You know you geekin' when you have to stand up to talk about the lore. Love it!

[@veppy4952]

Zovaal telling them to kneel instantly threw me back to the yogg saron quote of "bow down before the god of death".

[@altervaas]

Also, Both Arthas's plan and Zovaals are to unify through the loss of free will, and we're told the old gods gave us free will and flesh...so the sides of the tug-o-war still make sense in my mind.

[@chendu7918]

during the undercity reclamation there was a line that mentioned cosmic forces have different versions of necromancy, the power to reanimate dead. specificially the Light has its version too, shown on Calia Menethil. to expand on that it would be logic to assume cosmic forces also have their own version of domination magic.

[@1992TheOffspring]

The Argus Soul„went back“ to arbiter because of death magic applied by the deathlords. This is stated in one of their Book lines. Usually dead Titans do not go to the shadowlands. The titan was manipulated to pass this check despite being a titan in order to destroy the arbiter

[@Donpovich]

Basically Sargeras was used as a puppet AND framed AND imprisoned by the puppeteers/criminals. I would be mad too . I would do exactly what he did if not worse if I was framed,dominated and then SUDDENLY awakened imprisoned/fragmented

[@c.b.-]

The Nathrezim were said to have been feeding Death Magic to Argus, which prompted him to go to the realm of Death instead of where he was supposed to. Argus should _not_ have gone to the Shadowlands. 🤨 _Which makes you wonder where N'Zoth went to after he was slain with power from the Forge of Origination._ 🤔 I'm still certain - given the flashback from The Jailer's last moments - that both the Primus and the Master teamed up - and used - The Jailer as their stalking horse. Now all the heroes of Azeroth have moved on, leaving the Primus in a stronger position of power and influence to control all of the Shadowlands. Including Zereth Mortis. We never actually met The Jailer, he was merely a puppet the entire time.

[@Stryfe1980]

Awesome video! I definitely believe you are onto something with the Titans. In particular, I think Eonar was/is something else.....but now I wonder if perhaps they were all something else before they were Titans.

[@afishynado6812]

Something I was just thinking about with Order that could be an interesting twist - the taxonomic system for classifying things, goes: - Domain - Kingdom - phylum - class - ORDER - family - genus - species.

[@bumblebee8410]

I love the contrast of Sylvanas’ death magic arrow (a smokey purple) to Zovaal’s blue order magic when he grabs it from the air.

[@ZyrYoutubeAccount]

Im not playing the game anymore, but for some reason, I really enjoy this videos and general its fun to have a vague idea still about the story. Or potencial storys. really nice. :3

[@WilBgames]

It's been all but stated that the world Sargeras cleaved was Telogrus. Nether-Prince Durzaan in Telogrus Rift says: "Even shattered as it is, this place echoes with the whispers of the great ones who were slain... and the hatred of he who broke this world." I think Sargeras' old sword was not a mournblade, but the model upon which the concept of mournblades was built. Blades with similar runes are found all throughout warcraft even before the first lich king was made. The high elves were fond of runed blades, and Lothar carried one.

[@Segregedal]

When i see stuff like this i just get depressed. I mean how the freak did we get SL campaign when everything you guys cook is gigabrain. I'd have played with stories like these every fking day to see it unfold patch after patch smh.

[@jamesnicolson866]

He had all 5 sigils at the end tho, not just his own.

[@amnewl727]

That last minute was profound

[@turnstanley9737]

Makes sense. Didn't Odyn destroy Helyas physical form AFTER he peered into the shadowlands and learned of the Valkyr. The titans and the keeper Odyn seemed to grab something from the shadowlands. Also explains why Sargeras in the cinematic to fight Argus he says " That which you have stolen shall be your undoing "

[@turnstanley9737]

Well not learned of the valkyr but he saw bastion and made the valkyr after he gave his eye to mezhula

[@videowatcher37]

Just now struck me that the Arbiters key looks exactly like the icon of the titan training matrixes used in dragonflight professions, which would give your theory more merit

[@riak9792]

i was laughing so hard after that first bit. what was the arbiter doing?? so true

[@terrorbelow4201]

One thing that's really sticking out to me is that Aman'thul refers to the World Tree as "an infection" of life. Iridikron also uses the word infect when referring to what the Titans did. Might just be speculation but I feel like there's more to it there. I feel like using that word both times referring to Titan actions, is a hint.

[@Elbewrath]

When you do the questline in Zereth Mortis to forge a new Arbiter, "Echo of Argus" appears. Kind of adds up.

[@depressedpacito7024]

Ayo... I just had a thought, we are thinking about the idea of Order being something the titans copied or stole, if the Titan PANTHEON is what we have, then in the last shadowlands raid where you go to right the Jailer. What is the Prototype Pantheon????

[@lazlonazario2499]

Have to say it , Zovaal looks sick with that Armor

[@FreedumbHS]

back then I must have listened to that first zovaal dialogue dozens of times, since I couldn't get over how it doesn't sound like he says "final key" at all. I don't hear any L-sound at all in what is being spoken. furthermore, I hear a b sound to start the word that's supposed to be "final", instead of an f sound. so it sounds more like "bind key" being said... and right before he binds everyone in chains. anyone else notice that?

[@kthomas107t]

I wonder if the crust had a role in whatever the shadowlands was, his chest always gets me with its wood like appearance. Jailer that is

[@cyclotron99]

Hey, Pyro. Just sitting here at work, deep in thought about WoW lore. All this talk about the titans and them being constellars really got me thinking. What if the "circle of stars" Il'gynoth was referring to is the seat of the pantheon. I mean, it is a circle and they're all made of stars. Idk. Could be nothing. Just a fun thought. Thanks for the best WoW lore content out there. ❤

[@TigernachVT]

I am glad all this soul fracturing, and the Titan's ordered the Shadowlands is back on the table. I will say it again. This concept of splitting of souls based on emotions is a part of Ultima lore. This is shown in WoW with how the Scourge, Sylvanas, Uther, Y'Shaarj, and in Bastion during the questline when "Nikolon's Uncertainty" Aberrations spawn. Maybe that's what the Old Gods are; abominations of life that were infused with fractured soul/power/essence (whatever you want to call it) of Argus. WAIT Wouldn't that mean their power would also have gone back to the Arbiter/Zovaal? What if all of WoW's history we have been putting Argus back together?

[@TigernachVT]

Oh I also want to bring it up again that, we the people of Azeroth, have to be taken to Shadowlands when we die. We do not go there by default. It is NOT an automatic process. What freaking kind of cycle is it that we have to be willingly be taken by another entity to continue the Great Cycle? I think it's because we never are supposed to leave Azeroth and the real Great Cycle is broken.

[@peterbesserisses2080]

You're a legend Pyro

[@fatunicorn40]

dude u need to make a lore video about this honestly

[@martynjeffries937]

Pyros lore is way better than the actual lore. Blizz should totally hire him

[@dziku2222]

You seem like you are getting mad talking about those theories! xD I like it!

[@SenjataWitt-of4px]

Also... here's the thing. Order vs Chaos. Chaos is not the enemy. Order=Entropy. Total balance of all things. A cosmos of tiny, equal specks, equally distributed, without motion, without heat, without life, without change. ORDER is the enemy.

[@bumblebee8410]

@4:49 I got goosebumps man

[@Machete__Squad]

Yes Zovaal was the first Arbiter. His power and sigil was ripped from him when he "betrayed" the other Eternal Ones and put into the other Arbiter, to do the job he was doing. The job Zovaal was given by The First Ones. Argus, was infused with death magic. The nathrezim did this "purposefully" to turn the world-soul Argus into a weapon against The Arbiter. My understanding is that the death magic was of the Shadowlands. So if Argus was slain the death magic trying to return to its home would cause his soul to slam into the Arbiter, and break it.

[@JonRusso_783]

I'm First!! I'm first. Love the channel. I LOVE Sylvias facial reaction to a fully powered up Zovall.

[@depressedpacito7024]

Sargeras DOES know how to put souls together! In i think a retconned lore where Ner'Zul betrays sargeras before being locked into the helm of Domination Sargeras tore his soul strip by strip and pieced it together again to repeat the torment, do you think they retconned that for a reason?

[@Cpk20001]

Think that was kil'jaeden

[@depressedpacito7024]

@@Cpk20001 if I'm mistaken then overall that entire bit of lore is weird and inconsistent.

[@queenpersephone9685]

🌸 🌸 Would explain why The Winter Queen seems to feel betrayed by Elune. Elune joined the Titans after they came to Shadowlands and discovered domination. Imagine the player character becomes Azeroth's keeper, so if she "dies" she technically won't. The titans will believe they've won, until we confront them with the power of Creation and Destruction from Azeroth.🌸 🌸

[@of_valinor]

Oder is the belief and the result, domination is the means.

[@rhivan6921]

It's mentioned that the titan word for creation is the same as ordering. They call Argus the Unmaker. What if we've been looking at his title wrong. What if them calling him "Unmaker" is more about him being able to Deorder things?

[@nERVEcenter117]

WAIT A MINUTE, WHAT IF: Argus is the usurped God of Death, Zovaal is his keeper, the Primus is the usurper. Elune is the usurped God of Life, unsure who her keeper is, Eonar is the usurper. Maybe these are all ASPECTS (WINK WINK NOD NOD) who were REPLACED by the Titans taking their power and granting some of it to the dragons. These ASPECTS are so named because when REUNITED with Azeroth, they make her whole! And each represents one domain of the true whole that is creation-destruction, her very essence! Do keepers only make sense for titans, or for all godlike entities?

[@ScarlettSpitfyre]

I'm telling you people, the story and relation of the First Ones, Titans+Eternal Ones, Void Lords, Titanforged+characters is just like the Halo story with Precursors, Forerunners, Flood, Covenant+Humanity. The First Ones disappeared or something, Titans and Eternal Ones were some races created by the First Ones. Titans were the most advanced or something, but they know only Order so they started to Order the Universe of how they see.They order it by alling themselves with the Light and Life, where I believe Eonar is a trophy wife or something like that for Aman'thul. Eternal Ones and Titanforged are some guardians/keepers they put where they Ordered things. "The Forerunners had taken up a role as custodians of the galaxy and believed that the "Mantle of Responsibility," the center of their society and culture, had been passed down to them by the Precursors, an even more powerful race that preceded the Forerunner civilization. But this was a lie: The Forerunners made war with Precursors and drove them extinct. Only some of them survived hidden in the space between galaxies as space dust where they were transformed into the Flood, something like the VOID after millions of years. The Forerunners would name humanity their successors, identifying them with the title "Reclaimer". The alien alliance known as the Covenant worshiped the Forerunners as gods, deriving much of their technology from Forerunner artifacts found throughout the galaxy, and believing any who defaced these relics to be Heretics." For people that want to know more about the story of Halo, search it. You will see the similarities.

[@floorboard563]

What if argus returns ordered because the soul ended up into the ordered arbiter. Which is why the titans even helped us defeat argus to begin with

[@11131618570]

Hmm, someone found the holy grail, seems :)

[@deadpixeldave2078]

The Titans have a keeper in each ordo's. Example Eonar has Freya in the life realm, winter queen in the death realm and Elune shadow/light realm maybe? Making the keepers family/sisters.. thoughts?

[@SenjataWitt-of4px]

Pyro-lore is best lore.

[@Bassic8]

Also they say the lich king was controlled by Zovall but with the primus domination magic and the undead and abominations clearly mimic the primus realm maldraxxes everything points to the primus being the ring leader

[@brianhukee9978]

So the first ones are the titans.

[@nonameimpotantlive9233]

Arbiter was originally supposed to be the big bad in SL

[@blackwolves6925]

Hakkar? He has a hole in its chest, too.

[@garcea89]

im calling the most stupid theory out there: Azeroth altough prisoner has conflicts because she doesnt know if to keep this world alive or purge it(i mean everything) and WOW 2 starts,this will happen in last expansion probably after we wake her up and she realised its too late P.S. if u sub for 24 months ahead u get better starting gear and a mount at lvl 3 (tnx mr. bobby mccormick, enjoy ur yacht SIR)

[@jasoncopley1842]

Would Azeroth have a keeper too? Could that explain some of the mystery with Elune?

[@monkeysk8er33]

Holy fuck Pyro, you need to pay closer to attention to the actual lore. Zovaal didn't "get back" his ability to Dominate, he OBTAINED it from the Sigils he took, and the Arbiter's core. If he had Domination magic when he was the Arbiter, why didn't he just Dominate the other Eternal Ones, rather than lose from the beginning? That's because he didn't have their Sigils, like he does by the end of Chains of Domination. By obtaining all their combined power, he could then easily chain mortals to the floor.

[@sepehrsaleh512]

if argus was the planet that sargeras split in half why after that velen and kiljaden and archomand was on the healthy planet

[@Pyromancer]

Because this happened eons ago and the Titans had the opportunity to build a world around Argus in this time period. Lots of evidence regarding Argus that literally nobody talks about from 1000 Years of War. In this video I show that the planet he cleaves lines up with the slash through Argus. That isn’t a coincidence.

[@matthewwatson1297]

​@Pyromancer yeah I seen that. The cut is almost 1 for 1. "It hurt so much"

[@JoeyTjeerdsma]

When is Blizzard hiring you to cook with Chris Metzen and fix WoW Lore and really make EVERY DETAIL make sense?

[@bleachfanatic195]

I think the reason they put serve is quotations is because servitude implies consent and Sylvannas knows he means against people's will much as the lich king ment and Sylvannas refuses to live that way

[@Jokervision744]

Not serving, so you get ordered. Simple logics? In some sense they go hand in hand. I some sense Sylv took off and started to serve so ey. I just don't know the whole spiral/labyrinth so I don't know which side of the coin has it flipped on. Being more than a puppet comes from being able to serve in some sense. You could go meta with this.

[@nekokiki4002]

Death? What about Bwonsamdi? Haven't heard from that chill guy since Shadowlands, does he have any bigger meaning in lore? Is he overlooked? I really would like to hear your take on Bwonsamdi, please

[@Emcron]

with every vid i hope speculations from folks like pyro and accolon will be proven right, and with metzen back, here’s hoping those odds will go up!

[@EmpyreanDreamer]

Some great speculation. Though we all know blizzard didn't think about any of this a single time when writing this story. As fun as speculating is it's sad to see fan theorys that can totally turn around bad writing because it just makes you wish they did a better job in the first place, or at least run with the theory later down the line. I'm still salty that bioware didn't run with the indoctrination theory for Mass Effect 3. It would've saved them a lot of bad PR lol.

[@garsto9718]

When I played through Shadowlands (God bless those who endured it lol) I thought to myself man this story delivery is falling flat for me, despite adventuring and discovering so many things about the "after life". But your videos and theories are helping me with truly appreciate what I thought at first was a bs expansion.

[@Jesus-jb6ho]

Azeroth is Sargeras's respawn point

[@Kromoden]

perhaps his sword is, and in a last ditch attempt he stored a keeper inside the sword somewhere when he realizes he wont be able to escape the pantheon? or maybe the sword itself is the conduit?

[@primuschill]

...but the Primus created domination magic.

[@Soromeister]

Looks like Remornia.

[@roneasaurus]

is Elune Azeroth's keeper then?

[@Dalimil_the_Great]

Sounds like Legacy of Kain. :)

[@jakopivo526]

Elune avatar of Azeroth maybe? She acts as balanced one, and if both Argus and Azeroth were destruction and creation respectfully, maybe they themselves are balance?

[@Apocalypse1977]

I hate what blizzard did to Arthas.

[@hookbait4221]

what if Zovaal and Sarg are like brothers like Elune and the winter queen are sisters? and maybe both Zovaal and Sarg had the actual same concept of Domination towards Azeroth??? the sword being stabbed and Zovaal destroying Azeroth with his mace just seems a little odd. idk rando thought.

[@crustyplayer]

Now this is the content I live for. It excites me. Makes me want to login and play again. I think this is a big breakthrough in conceptualizing what was going through the heads of the devs. Makes me like shadowlands more. Don’t get me wrong, their execution was quite poor.

[@AlesMicik]

Why does Pyro still tortures himself with this fucking mess of a dogshit called Shadowlands? And he makes is sound so fucking good.. So fucking good that there is no way it's actually true, it can't be

[@2ndChanceWilkins]

Yeet

[@baro6447]

im not big in wow lore but these videos are fun lol

[@brianp6682]

The problem is scope. I'm killing raptors in Barrens and don't care about stuff ten levels of lore above that. Wow needs smaller stories.

[@monoman567]

As someone that hasn't played since WOD and only vaguely kept with some of the story, what in the deep fried lore is going on here and why is azeroth a character? Urgh the rabbit hole calls to me like an old one...

[@stantiberiu9668]

Yeah I don't care. Shadowlands never happened. In fact, nothing happened after WOTLK. Lore of the Warcraft Universe Stops after Arthas died.

[@williamdonahue7869]

I've decided that I no longer like watching your videos, because the actual WoW lore will never be as good as your theories, so it's just going to be a massive let down in the end. Keep up the good work, though!