ArianeGroup - The future of European space transportation

The future of European space transportation:
- competitive, innovative and resilient
- Space logistics solutions for Europe
- Anticipating the future of European space transportation
Three possible futures for space utilization beyond 2030:
- RESILIENCE
- SECURITY
- IN-SPACE REVOLUTION
A family of modular, reusable, sustainable launchers performing missions to low Earth and high parking orbits.
With a fleet of stages and vehicules carrying out various in-space missions.
A new approach: a family of reusable and sustainable launchers: Mini, Medium, Heavy and Very Heavy, Fully modular based on building blocks;
To space: performing missions into low Earth and high parking orbits
From space: coming back to Earth
In space: complemented by new vehicules for in-orbit transport
Our vision
- Fully reusable fleet
- European space transportation network
- High-cadence launches

[@dufkers]

It is great that ArianeGroup is working towards reusability and crewed vehicles but the timescale of “post 2030” seems a little slow. There are no numbers in this presentation but it looks like these rockets would be roughly comparable to current Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy capabilities. Surely more ambition is needed if if Europe wants to keep up.

[@joerivanlier1180]

You can put 2023 on it like Blue Origin / SpaceX does and then just delay for ages, but reality says building rocket science is hard and takes time... I'd rather they put it somewhere in the next decade and build something that lasts. This is clearly just a suggestion for concepts, what they want rather then actual idea's, from that to actual launch takes a while.

[@AdelaeR]

Yeah this is just stupid. They're not trying to make innovative rockets, they simply want to burn a lot of taxpayer money. It would be far more cost effective to simply lease SpaceX rockets.

[@michalfaraday8135]

@@joerivanlier1180 You mean like Ariane 6 first launch in 2020? Yes developing a new vehicle is hard - for everyone, and Ariane is not an exception.

[@nicogenovese7108]

FUCK I illuded myself they meant in 2020s 😭😭 ...

[@plainText384]

that's 8 years to develop 4 reusable rockets, as well as (manned) spacecraft. For comparison SpaceX started falcon 9 development around 2005 and it took until 2018 for the first falcon heavy launch and until 2020 for crew dragon. And that was for two, not four reusable rockets with common architecture and a much smaller and less complex crewed spacecraft. If these goals are achieved in the 2030s, I will be extremely impressed.

[@spacecube8561]

whoever manages arianegroup's youtube channel and animations, deseirves a goddamn fu*cking *raise*

[@MarsChroniken]

Wow! This is awesome!

[@AdeptaKerillian]

Music choice is on point.

[@Ph33NIXx]

Awesome!

[@Galactis1]

Well this is REALLY cool.

[@starfaxmc]

Great !

[@bazoo513]

Finally! Europe, the birthplace of rocketry (if we don't count ancient China), has been so many times distracted or outright derailed in its path to space. It is time that we get our act together.

[@TheOwenMajor]

Try not to kill each other this time.

[@bazoo513]

@@TheOwenMajor Nah, the US has cornered that market...

[@TheOwenMajor]

@@bazoo513 The holocaust killed more people in less then a decade than 300 years of so called "gun violence" Heck, Italy just voted for a Mussolini fan girl. Try to go for 20 years without a genocide.

[@bazoo513]

@@TheOwenMajor I didn't mean your domestic gun violence (only a bit over 10,000 homicides a year, plus 15,000 suicides), but Vietnam, Iraq etc. But, you are right, this looks increasingly like 1930s. Putin is doing as good work destabilizing Europe as he did with propping up Agent Orange.

[@3gunslingers]

@@bazoo513 _"Europe has been so many times distracted or outright derailed in its path to space. It is time that we get our act together."_ Beautifully worded and I agree with you fully. That's why I hope ArianeGroup will not see a single Euro from the NESTS program. What they demonstrate here is a complete lack of vision and boldness. Back in 2015 ArianeGroup (the managers) literally laughed when SpaceX first landed a Falcon9 booster. Before that they claimed it wasn't even technically feasible. After they claimed it wasn't financially sensible. Because in the years 2012-2014 they developed the concept of the Ariane6, a rocket that should beat the Falcon9. But what they didn't anticipate, was that SpaceX would continue development of their Falcon9. Continuing development of a rocket after the maiden launch is practically unheard of in the history of commercial rockets. At least not in that extent. Since 2014 ArianeGroup, a partially private company on paper, has received more than 4 billion Euros from tax payers to develop the Ariane6. Now this rocket faces an ever shrinking launch market niche for its price and capabilities. With the Icarus upper stage this niche gets even narrower. (Look up the launch manifest. All but 2 payloads are forced on Ariane6 because of politics) So in essence ArinaeGroup has backed itself into a corner. But now their genius plan to get out of this corner is to make the same mistake all over again. They try to beat the Falcon9 of today by developing a rocket with tax money that will have to compete with the Starship of tomorrow! Europe needs a completely reusable rocket system that will be competitive in a market with a fully functioning Starship. Everything else is a complete waste of tax money. ArianeGroup is not the company that can develop such a rocket system with the money Europe can offer. ESA needs to set up a Europe-wide competition like the old CRS/COTS program of NASA.

[@dalel3608]

Make it happen Ariane (& Co.).

[@MimeHTF5]

Finally Ariane 7

[@popelgruner595]

What took you so long? This is overdue.

[@plainText384]

What actually happened to Themis, Callisto, etc?

[@imdumped]

bonjour, musk annonce l'extension de son usine pour produire 1 fusée par jour, il faut 6 mois pour construire une ariane 6 sans compter le transport vers kourou....n'est ce pas foutu d'avance ?

[@hoboman444]

"Different launchers conducting numerous different mission"

[@mirelawohs1636]

I like these more than spacex rockets

[@juhilla749]

I like ESA, but looking at Spacex's potential as a supplier, the problem with ESA's plans is striking. ESA would be much better off if it contracted with SpaceX than NASA. NASA didn't stop with research just because it outsourced the transport, and it didn't even give up its own transport potential. It is a bit of a comfortable position to refer to developments again and plan for decades when these technologies already exist on this planet.

[@mintberrycrunch6657]

how stupid of Europeans would it be to outsource their only space faring capability to an American company, seriously... Americans would never be dumb enough to make the same mistake.

[@sirmicro]

Should stay with H2/LOX core and upper stages but make them with carbon fiber or equivalent.. that will do wonders with the mass ratio..run the numbers. I think Meth/Lox is a step backwards as the main propellent..

[@sebpatu]

But if i understood well, solid propulsion makes engines unable to stop and restart on will. That is not good for upper stage or for reusability of first stage and boosters. And to cut cost you need to use one same engine everywhere

[@sirmicro]

@@sebpatu some reusable side boosters in any fuel type is a good idea, I mean they have the best H2 core and upper stage engines already..

[@aq_ua]

Good thing you don't work there

[@SP95]

Vendez une maquette d'Ariane 7 avec sa navette dessus svp 🚀🚀 👩🏻‍🚀👨🏼‍🚀👨🏻‍🚀👨🏻‍🚀👨🏼‍🚀👩🏻‍🚀

[@herpaderppa3297]

15 years late

[@linerider195]

Spend thousands on a well produced video, forget to proofread it or use images of the gateway on NRHO

[@romanvonkolln4330]

Ok, finally! I'm fired up by this presentation - but: 2030? Europe cannot compete with the known competitors right now, but hey, this is the right way to go! And I notice that ESA's Marketing has a higher budget right now. Also: finally. Get on track! But now it's time to hurry up, although I know that it's difficult for a government funded company to be fast; there is just no other way to get it done faster to stay in competition. SUSIE is a great concept by the way.

[@yarati4584]

ESA's marketing budget hasn't got anything to do with this. This is Ariane Group, not ESA.

[@sebpatu]

They compete today just right even with ariane5. The falcon heavy dont even fly much. Arianz 6 will be 50% cost cut and more flexible for more missions. Prometheus is ready. Themis come soon. Until cadence are high no need for full reusability. Spacex artificially adds up cadences with their own launches of starlink with artificially high numbers of satellites. And even then they struggle to be econolically safe.

[@FB0102]

these look familiar... :)

[@bazoo513]

The same problems lead to similar solutions. Convergent evolution, you know: dolphin and tuna.

[@iooosef6006]

that's a sussy company name right there 🤔🤔🤔

[@The-Cat]

ArianeGroup should do better in marketting themselves. Or at least somebody with some form of leadership in the EU should. Nobody knows who ArianeGroup is nobody even knows about a European space program. (when I say "nobody" I'm refering to common mainstraim people) Just ask any EU citizen randomly on the street about space and they'll all just refer to the American space program some will even be able to name NASA or SpaceX the savy ones could go further and mention Blue Origin or Virgin Galactic but not the ArianeGroup. And don't even get me started on why it is important for recognition on EU soil... I didnt even know about ArianeGroup I just dropped because I looked for EU space programs.

[@bazoo513]

Well, "common people" _have_ heard of ArianeGroup at least once recently. I read many times "Why was JWST launched from French Guiana and not from Florida?!?" Because nobody else could!

[@khel9505]

@@bazoo513 it could launch the jwst in florida but the politician are afraid of launching it to new launch vehicle!!!

[@khel9505]

@@bazoo513 arianegroup the've been so long in space industry but they haven't launch yet a manned mission🤷

[@bazoo513]

@@khel9505 True - the Hermes program got cancelled for political reasons - is "wasn't needed" because Shuttle will be "oh-so-cheap". The same story as with so many European (and Canadian) aerospace programs. No more.

[@bazoo513]

@@khel9505 Yeah? On which launcher? True, even Falcon 9 has sufficient payload capacity, but not suitable fairing. OK, if given sufficient head time, perhaps they could have built one; IIRC, they plan a bigger fairing for some military payloads (on Falcon Heavy, I think), but Ariane already had it. and was very realiable, something that Falcons had yet to prove (and did, in the meantime.)

[@jeremie.d]

You know, what you presented is present not futur :(.

[@guiguiferrand2296]

It will fail like hermes

[@geoaccount3803]

lol it's littertly like spacex

[@Arckil]

And ?

[@romanvonkolln4330]

Look at your smartphone. It is based on the iphone concept which was presented in 2007. Just because you get inspired from someones good idea doesn't mean it's wrong or funny. ESA is not the only company that tries to adapt. And: it is not literally like spaceX. Look at the SUSIE transporter, the different launchers for different payloads and more. I assume you're not that strongly involved into space-stuff ;)

[@bazoo513]

@@romanvonkolln4330 "Look at your smartphone. It is based on the iphone concept which was presented in 2007. " Which was itself inspired by PalmPilot and similar devices.

[@bennie1138000]

@@romanvonkolln4330 it’s hard to respect this company and the politicians when Alain Charmeau, Andre Hubert Roussel, Stephane Israel, Thierry Breton, Jan Worner and others said for years “this technology would lead to bankruptcy”. “I can’t tell my teams to make one rocket a year then go home”, only to turn around and use the same technology and likeness.

[@3gunslingers]

@@romanvonkolln4330 No, it's literally like SpaceX. And with this ArianeNext project ArinaeGroup makes the same mistake as with Ariane6. They try to beat SpaceX while assuming SpaceX will not continuing their development. Who in their right mind would even start developing a rocket without a reusable upper stage (and no, SUSIE is not an *upper stage*) when the rocket will be operational in about 10 years and Starship will be the competitor?

[@njengakim]

finally it took you guys too long to pivot to reusability as your future.

[@GEORGE-oq1gv]

lmao coppy man

[@sebpatu]

Coppy man? Musk you mean?

[@n3gi_]

A bad cgi, nothing more than that.

[@Sorry2701]

To my knowledge, you guys are the leading in terms of launches (295*) and satellites (1145*) in orbit, how come you guys sleep off just like that? At least after the 1st falcon 9 in 2015, you should have stopped the Ariane 6 development and begun working on Ariane 6-R (Reusable) and continued with Vega, Vega C, Soyuz & Ariane 5 till it became main stream. Even now, Ariane 6 has 4 models, i would suggest to go with 3rd(P120C+) & 4th(Reusable) models only + these 4 rockets(Mini, Medium, Heavy & Super Heavy) in this video for 2030 & beyond. You guys gonna lose the crown in few years and i don't even belong to europe.

[@aq_ua]

I don't think you get how this works, they can't just start from nowhere, they're starting with a base model and ramping up from there