Ariel Helwani Responds To UFC Vegas 74 Controversy | The MMA Hour

Ariel Helwani talks about the UFC Vegas 74 judging controversy over the main event between Amir Albazi and Kai Kara-France. The team discusses their scorecards for Amir Albazi vs. Kai Kara-France, whether accountability will improve MMA judging, and more.
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[@jasonstouder]

The simplest solution is going to 5 judges instead of 3. You can't expect the judges to be interviewed and answer for every fight they judge. In fact, the score card itself is their answer to any question. 5 judges.

[@imma5761]

If they cant find 3 competent people, do you honestly believe extra 2 will be competent?

[@Thenightshowbreaks]

Look at my idea an tell me what you think. Seems pretty perfect honestly

[@MichaelSilverMedia]

Nope, more judges doesn’t = better decisions. What a weak idea.

[@jasonstouder]

@@MichaelSilverMedia you're right. my idea is pretty bad compared to the one you proposed. ,,, oh, wait. you didn't offer any solutions, did you? hmm. i bet you're a real blast to be around. lol.

[@jmodyrts25]

I think a post fight review system should be put in place for split decisions

[@andrewlemmon2678]

I would love an indepth hour or 2 hour discussion with MMA fighters, commentators, experts etc spitballing a new scoring system.

[@Sok12111]

I think they should have a second set of judges or support for judges reviewing instant replays/taking very close looks at sequences to try to see illegal strikes, etc. and updating the judges/ref real-time once they find out what happened (in case something was missed by ringside judges or ref like an illegal low blow or knee to the head while down, or headbutt)

[@_cohen]

They just need to add one more judge who doesn’t do any scoring but reviews the score cards before they announce the decision. He can score the bout himself “senior judge” and then refer back to the other three and find out which judge was way far off

[@andrewlemmon2678]

@@Sok12111 I just feel like adding more people isn't the answer. It'd just bring in more differences in opinions, more clashes etc. In saying that I don't have an answer in how to make it better though lol

[@Thenightshowbreaks]

This isnt that hard to figure out . Give the judges EACH a room in a building without distractions to watch a fight on a big tv without influence. THAN take all 3 score cards and go majority for each round , meaning if 2 judges give a fighter the 1st than that fighter gets that round . An give 1 blanketed score

[@allpraisewebb1142]

I like this...I believe the crowd reactions plays a big factor

[@Thenightshowbreaks]

@@allpraisewebb1142 it's so simple lol I mean we see a fight so much better than they do

[@Ghostone11]

love this idea

[@SpyroTek]

And also up the number to 5 judges.

[@zbell7003]

@@allpraisewebb1142 exactly, i think Albazi’s teammates yelling in the crowd every time he threw a punch was a factor

[@enmitynz4613]

We need to push for these judges to simply have to show up at the post fight press conference that we already have in place after every UFC event. Not only to hold them accountable for their sh*tty decisions, but to actually give them an opportunity to explain their points of view too. Furthermore though, the scoring system itself is clearly not working if it is possible for 3 judges to see totally different things. We need an accurate, robust scoring system that literally gets the decisions factually correct - rather than a feelings based system.

[@Shiggystardust]

definitely. lose the boxing 10 must system. I think the scoring should start from zero, then each and every time a fighter lands or does something significant they are given a point. if they end in a draw you go to damage, octagon control etc.

[@davidcastro1570]

We need that verdictMMA judging

[@chemdawgsd2146]

That is a great idea!! Then...Weigh them in as they step in cage and hold judges accountable.

[@downsouth5971]

This fool is just a mouth.

[@enmitynz4613]

@@chemdawgsd2146 haha yeah, send them in the cage with the fighter they robbed.

[@bengreen9967]

There should be a training programme that allows ex fighters to easily become judges and referees. With the amount of issues Dana has had with them over the years he would have come up with something like that for the ufc. Instead of having forrest griffin stand behind idiots as they get slapped unconscious he could be doing something useful to MMA

[@tomjegs___]

This is a great idea! So I’m sure it’ll probably never happen.

[@wheelchair_charlie]

Yep! Having the judges explain the reasons they scored the fight that way as part of the UFC post fight show not only would be in the best interest of MMA but also it would enrich the post fight show all that much more.

[@wtfguy2]

The scoring system is not the problem, its the consistency. There is a scoring criteria but the judges themselves each have a different outlook on it. A fighter could win from control time in one fight and another could lose doing the exact same thing the very next fight.

[@scottc2076]

It’s an issue of corruption

[@ballstothewall38]

It's called rigging the fight, same thing happened when Dana placed a huge bet on Paddy and then acknowledged that Paddy had won when in fact we all know that Paddy lost that fight.

[@1surflover]

Judges like chris lee also change their mind on scoring every other fight

[@KeyserSoze23]

I sincerely believe most MMA judges don't actually understand the sport they judge.

[@scozach3213]

“Like I said after Haney-Loma, there’s always gonna be close fights.” That fight wasn’t even close, Loma smoked him late and pulled away.

[@Thenightshowbreaks]

Rewatch it. I promise you you'll feel different

[@typo9434]

"smoked him" lol what fight were you watching I also had the fight in favor of Loma but he definitely did not smoke Haney

[@Thenightshowbreaks]

@@typo9434 rewatch it bro . I thought it was a no-brainer for Haney after I rewatched it

[@jay_9985]

@@Thenightshowbreaks how🤷🏾‍♂️?

[@MrLeerjones]

You get transparency.. You get judges to say why they judged it.. Then you get feedback from everyone.. Then you get the rules smoothed out to have everyone and the fighters all on the same level on what to do in a fight.

[@kimediamond]

It's impact that counts, not merely damage. "Impact" is even more prone to subjectivity, as it includes not only visible damage, but also loss of energy, confidence, abilities etc.

[@realeyesrealizereallies6828]

I don't want judges to explain their decisions.. I want to use modern technology to make sure decisions are correct, give them the time to rewatch some video to make certain that the winner wins.. I could care less what a judge says who has made a bad decision...

[@ihavetubes]

The reason they give 10-9 is to rig a fight, it's the only way they can allow a certain fighter to win

[@mhutch5082]

That's unrealistic. Don't be so dumb

[@luckyspurs]

Diving and gymnastics judges don't watch replays. Get better judges. TV replays would distort even worse.

[@ninjachokesgaming1540]

I think the ten point system could still work, but only if you can actually score a round 10-1(like Maynard Edgar first rd) all the way to 10-9 for a truly close rd that way the fight is scored almost entirely as a whole

[@bigcake87]

I have been saying this for years. A 10 point system is pointless if no one ever scored below 5 points for a round, it may as well be a 5 point system. If they start scoring a clear beatdown round as 10-1,10-2 etc, everything would make more sense. The fighter who got smashed cannot just eek out 2 rounds and get a draw because judges only scored the beatdown 10-8. Draw rounds need to be more common too. Rose vs Esparza 2 and Ngannou vs Lewis = clear draws, all 10-10 or 0-0 rounds.

[@scottc2076]

Maybe but the real issue is corruption with UFC judging. How the UFC never gives a robbery decision to their favorite.

[@jameslazaro5330]

Licensed Pro-MMA judge here, and I get it. I get the frustration. One event in Florida, Combate Global, gets broadcasted with Open Scoring. I feel it doesn’t help much sometimes, but sometimes it does. It really depends on the situation and type of fighter fighting. Sometimes a fighter up 2 rounds, goes defensive or cruises the 3rd or just loses that last round. However, if the fighter down 2 rounds does prompt for a more aggressive 3rd round out of that person. So sometimes you just get a bunch of 29-28s lol

[@flugendorffilms6130]

This is why Ariel is the mma journalist goat.

[@_brandonapplegate]

A good example of rules and regulations that are inconsistent in other sports, depending on geographical location is the size of a baseball stadium in every different city. I always thought that was an odd standard of the game as it may be easier to hit a home run in one city compared to another based on the walls being different distances from home plate.

[@riolindawrestling7301]

One of the dumbest thing in sports honestly.

[@allpraisewebb1142]

I don't understand why they can't just let former fighters judge fights or at least someone with any type of combat sports experience because this stuff needs to eventually be addressed! They are ruining fighters run or chase to a title with these stupid decisions 🤦🏾‍♂️

[@LT-sz1fj]

We’ll former fighters I don’t think would work considering the alliances certain ones have with current fighters and trainers, for example imagine Dc becoming a judge and getting to judge a fight involving someone from AKA

[@mitchellhapgood9805]

Yeah I thought this too, but would probably cause too many conflicts of interest

[@allpraisewebb1142]

@@LT-sz1fj they don't necessarily have to be former UFC fighters they could be from any organization just someone with actual fighting experience

[@riolindawrestling7301]

@@allpraisewebb1142 fighting is a small world. Every UFC fighter is someone’s hometown hero.

[@luckyspurs]

Because they all have brain damage.

[@MagicXike]

We need to stop letting these judges who’ve never laced up a pair of gloves in their lives judge fights at the highest level. MMA AND BOXING

[@ryang131]

You're the man for going out of your way to try help fighters and the sport! Thankyou!

[@FatalPixels]

New York Rick's thought process on transparency is odd. Transparency is a huge benefit, it educates the public, fighters and couches. If you have a fighter and couch unsure how the scoring system works can lead to a bad game plan between rounds. Plus if judges had to articulate their thought process and fail in the public eye, can lead to butter judging. Then the public wins because we are more aware of the sport we watch and get entertaining stories when a judge fails to explain.

[@marcgebeloff2036]

I agree, transparency is key. You only encourage shenanigans if theres no accountability

[@scottg5529]

I would like to see the judges take round notes as an explanation and/or summary that everyone can view

[@itscje5784]

Hey Ariel, If we know who the judges are, why cant you just contact them directly and in a very friendly way just how they judged it so we can all start looking through the same lenses? Is there anything prohibiting you from contacting them?

[@stephenstuckey]

So true, come Saturday in Vancouver we won't even remember this. Then there will be another shitty decision and we will back here the following Monday talkin about it again. 🤦‍♂️😵‍💫

[@infrared6973]

Even if the judges explained themselves it would make it even worse because incompetence is incompetence doesnt matter if they explain it or not. We already know the judging is flawed.

[@StrengthScholar0]

That breaking new sound is fantastic whether it is on time or late

[@windowlizard]

32:04 , right when Dana said that i was hoping you’d address it on the show 👌

[@adams6438]

In the NBA the referees are graded, their metrics are public on calls they got right/wrong, and those metrics are used to decide who gets to officiate in the postseason and finals. Same goes for the NFL, NHL and MLB. And other major leagues.

[@husndymabjr6763]

what does Herb Dean have to do with this?

[@blumpkinspicelatte4580]

Your point being what adams6348?

[@kbend]

Yea but the problem with that is there’s no postseason in mma

[@b_meeksfit771]

7 judge system. It’s a lot harder for 4/7 judges to make a mistake rather than 2/3. Plus, give them access to the live footage that is being broadcast. Then on top of those changes, as you said, make them accountable for their actions. No accountability means no consequence which yields poor quality. Great video Ariel!

[@keithc001]

Agree with you Ariel ...regarding Damage ...some people bleed easy some don't ...like you can not base decisions on damage ..

[@saulhernnadez9203]

That’s their own personal problem

[@bigpapaben4014]

@@saulhernnadez9203 As a fan I want the best fighter during the fight to win; not the one who wears damage the best.

[@luckyspurs]

@@bigpapaben4014 Isn't having or not having a chin also an ability to wear damage the best thing. Although I largely agree.

[@docb1844]

Fans need to hold the judges accountable. Jump up and give them a nice fist massage after highly controversial calls that cost fighters their careers

[@adams6438]

That open card scoring would setup some crazy final rounds.. would be cool to see..

[@R9000S]

Ariel should totally interview the judges!!!!!!!

[@kbend]

5 judges is the only realistic thing which won’t actually be done. Gotta win on at least 3 scorecards. Seems the best most simple way.

[@pkouls23]

Open scoring is the dumbest solution. The issue is poor judging not whether fighters know they are up.

[@firstname7769]

If someone gets beat up bad in a round it can be 10-8.

[@dripsonice413]

It’s so frustrating when it seems like there are controversial results every other event now in combat sports whether it be boxing or mma and it’s been going on for so long now and maybe it’s bc the UFC is growing rapidly in popularity and it seems like boxing is finally trending upwards in terms of promotions finally working together to make the big fights happen that we are just tuned in more and noticing it more but there has to be an answer these promotions have to be hit where it hurts (their pockets) it seems for there to be change. It seems every other major sport when there was a problem with rulings, fouls etc that effect the game they brought some form of change or reform to fix the issue, whether it be with instant replays, rule changes, challenges etc. idk what the answer besides holding these judges more accountable is maybe some kind of replays of rounds, larger pool of scoring, live scoring, challenges of scorecards, back up judges in case of a controversial decision? Idk

[@salemsarni-gg7md]

I can't believe Ariel doesn't get why they would never ever do open scoring, it's because of bookmakers, there are millions of dollars worth of bets placed in between rounds and open scoring completely messes it up for both oddmakers and bettors.

[@tomjegs___]

4 judges for each side of the octagon, 32 total. 8 judges score the fight in its totality, 8 by each round, 8 by damage, and 8 review the other 24. Fighter must win at least 16 cards to win. If that doesn’t happen then the crowd gets to vote who won like on American Idol and then we go to sudden death where the crowd favorite gets to use a steel chair in the 6th and final round. If no clear winner (KO, TKO, sub) emerges from that then the two fighters have a 100 yard (or meter if the fight is not in America) dash to determine who slaps first in the final challenge to be the winner. This is the only real way to fix this problem.

[@thomashadley224]

Refs and Judges should have a press conference after every fight... same as in the other sports. . . .

[@Luke.1779]

bro you needa get frank to bind his soundboard to his keyboard or something, the delay on sound effects every time is hard to watch

[@Marc-fr5pu]

Well said Ariel. Many of us were thinking the same thing.

[@TheretardedPaulbrother]

Im glad he called him out on the speed of which he hits the breaking news button always thought that he could be way quicker as well. He should go hangout with Fred from the Howard Stern Show for awhile

[@DannyTobia]

Ultimately all judges will have patterns. If the fighters know who the judges will be, they can adjust their gameplan based on who will judge the event. Definitely a win/win

[@thomasf.2590]

One day when this is fixed and an adequate way of scoring fights is implemented, you’ll be looked at as the pioneer Ariel that put a spotlight on the issue and got the ball rolling. That’s the hope anyway…. Thanks for another great fight review!

[@yomideen8445]

My concern is just that UFC are not ready to take this up just with steps to fix this issue knowing it might take a full cycle change

[@tane1mahuta1]

Most sports have video umpires, if a fighter objects to a decision then it goes to the video ref. If a judge continually messes up the vid ref will get rid of him! This is why Ariel has the most subscribers because of his non judgemental points... Thank you 😊😊😊

[@luckyspurs]

No sport sends an entire 5 minute passage of play to a video umpire. Which is what scoring a round is.

[@dakillacharisma]

Doesn’t the NBA do something like a final 2-minute review to discuss either misses or why some fouls were called? The judges should do something along the lines of if there’s a discrepancy in a round where 2 judges score for one fighter and 1 scores for the other why not have them discuss that. That could be a 10 minute high level discussion

[@danielgggonzales]

Judges should have their own team watching the fight in a controls center watching every angle and have their perspective heavily weight in on the judges decision.

[@TennoHaki]

What if they didn’t have a round limits They fight going as many 5 minute rounds as it takes until someone is knocked out, submitted or gives up. It would never happen but it’s crazy to think about. They would be brutal fights especially since the fighter know there is coasting through a round because you are up on the score cards.

[@siliziwencanywa1138]

Malcolm Butler is the Cornerback BB sat in the Super Bowl. A real surprise that was...

[@johanjotun1647]

You said it when you mentioned "Open Scoring" MMA is the only sport where a player cant look up at the score board and attempt to control the outcome.

[@user-yb9dg4xm4d]

I think they need to do it the way One scores the fight as a whole and don't have a 10-9 Point Must system.

[@jacobwebb5371]

They should do round total scoring. Total all 3 scores from the judges per round. That way if one judge disagrees on a round, it will be outweighed by the other 2. The higher score between all 3 judges PER ROUND, will determine who won he round. If you look at the score cards that are in question, almost all of them would be corrected to the right fighter if you did round total scoring. Pay me.

[@111Mfreeman]

Open scoring has it's flaws as well though, a fighter knowing he's up 2-0 would just fight to survive, and disengage the whole time, it's better to not have it open scoring

[@joshnagel8819]

Aljo already does that even when he can’t be sure he’s ahead (round 5 vs. Cejudo, rounds 4-5 vs. Yan). The bigger concern would be a fighter who’s down 2-0 or 3-1 but clearly being robbed. Open scoring wouldn’t necessarily make them fight harder… you would see them quit on their stool in protest or disgust.

[@frankgallagur2045]

4:05 yeah... we call that "damage"

[@willdtw]

10 point must system would work of they used all 10 points. If you get out struck you should lose the round 10-8 at least. If you're clearly hurt lose 10-7 or even 10-6 if it's really bad. Wrestling is borderline stalling. A wresting dominant position should get you at most a 10-9 if you caused more damage from that position, if not you shouldn't be winning rounds by stalling. If they implemented these changes it would fix 99% of the problem and the sport would instantly seem more legitimate.

[@AndroidGamePlayed]

I closed the fight before the decision. I prsumed Kai had won that, untill later that day I saw infact he lost! Kinda funny, it would be nice to see the judges at the presser. To answer questions

[@jiimmyyy]

Why are judges being made to watch the fight from a single angle through a fence?

[@mmahgerefteh]

I think the issue is that the judges aren’t paying enough attention and/or aren’t good at their jobs. Hence why they likely don’t want to be interviewed. They’ll be exposed for not doing their jobs well. The pay is apparently low. You get what you pay for. That’s why the commission probably protects them - because the commission is the one who employs them. To counter Ariel’s point - there may not be anything to learn from them. The entirety of the MMA media are judging the fight correctly.

[@treythethird3487]

Why don’t you actually go over the rules for mma and boxing so you know. It doesn’t come down to damage. That’s just one of the scoring criteria’s

[@IDnmeI]

Dude making valid point after valid point

[@jackunderhill4444]

This decision is about as unanimously mocked as Paddy, Gordon. One of the worst decisions ever. KKF shouldn’t have his ranking or journey to a title fight affected by this.

[@almosteverythingisalie2610]

Not even close. Your a kkf fan so you mad but it was close 48-47 either way

[@Keith_Peterson]

I agree with the nose on this one, the thing is... If the officials had to explain their reasoning i can guarentee there wouldn't be any bad judging... Its because they dont have to explain, that theres bad judging. I still think the ufc plays a role in who wins and looses as they want fresh blood in the top rankings... Either that or theres some betting scandle going on behind the scenes that we dont know about... In the 20+ years i have been watching the ufc its the past two years that have been the worst its a weekly occurrence now.

[@b600sf]

Wow i actually shut it off and went to sleep thinking i knew 100% it was kai. First im seeing this

[@franlovelsimic8421]

yeah it's crazy

[@mrquinntaylor]

So thankful for all you do Ariel. Best journalist in the world, period

[@HSB95]

Yes. Just focus on the action.

[@dc6496]

AREIL is dead on correct about the scoring. I agree because in a fight it shouldn't really matter who done this or that in round one or two,it's who is winning at the end is what should matter,(open scoring) when somebody talks about a fight they don't say oh he was kicking butt the first minute😂It should be who's kicking ass at the end of it,that's the real winner,I hate seeing a guy win a round or two,and then started getting his tail kicked in the last round and they give it too who started off better.Should be the one who's taking control of the fight at the end.Like what would happen if the fight continued!and didn't stop at rnd 3or 5.That should be the winner.. JMO

[@tomjegs___]

That doesn’t make sense at all lol By that logic Diaz “won” the fight against Edwards haha

[@mbaracka9859]

Ufc so watered down now, I feel bad for new fans who missed the all the great cards we used to get.

[@WobblyRooster]

And steroids

[@HarrisRiaz1]

Look at the end of the day yes sometimes judges make mistakes. The only thing I will say is never leave it to the judges. Get the finish

[@vincenzohhh]

The chito card over sandhagen was arguably more offensive

[@maxpheby7287]

I even think Olympics style points scoring would be better than what we have at least it isn't subjective.

[@BalotelliFan713]

Spot on. 641 likes after 21 hours shows how little most MMA fans care about this and are just stereotypically brand loyal and R'd

[@vanslang5385]

For the 1,000,457th time, most close fights have a few tie (10-10) rounds and a few that are actually definitive 10-9. If the judges weren’t discouraged from giving out 10-10 scores for close rounds we wouldn’t have all these questionable split decisions that happened bc in so many tie rounds judges have to give a fighter the round bc of the 10-9 MUST system. Too easy🤯🤯

[@k33k62]

15 min during post show where judges guide/justify there scoring, thatd be a easy good start.

[@plizardi261948753]

How about judging the fight in total and having five judges?

[@dylanskinner6481]

Still amazes me that they don’t score the fight like this after the rounds. 1 - 2/3 Kai 2 - 3/3 Amir 3 - 3/3 amir 4 - 2/3 Kai 5 - 3/3 Kai Kai wins 3 to 2.

[@joejones4181]

Did it ever occur to you, the "judging" is part of the product or show? It is one of the most dramatic parts of any important fight or hell, any fight, holding your breath, waiting for the scores to be revealed. AND, it gives shows like yours something to talk about....

[@dazzrikio]

11:00 he talking about Malcolm Butler?

[@petesnik1282]

Damage is stupid , some guys bleed & bruise way easier than others . Should be STRIKES, GRAPPLING, SUBMISSION, CONTROL. F DAMAGE

[@dsharpshotz3937]

Diving, all x games sports all have judges. There are many other sports that have similar scoring

[@Ray-bn1ry]

What if they spread the judges evenly around the cage instead of one vantage point so all three see it from different views and don't influence each other

[@michaelfranzese4975]

Having fighters judge the fights is obviously a great idea. The only issue with that is the sport is still too new and even the "OG's" are still intertwined at their old gyms. Imagine DC judging a Islam fight? That was an obvious one, but these "old" fighters still have deep roots in their camps because they're all about 40, not 60.

[@TenggisKhan]

Ariel you need your own breaking news button

[@solidghus4799]

National and American league baseball has significant differences

[@superNowornever]

It was Chris Lee who gave the 4th to Albazi

[@gabrielknight5726]

The fundamental issue is that the UFC is being run like a league and governed like boxing. So if you're talking about judging and officiating it More accurate to compare it to boxing. If you're talking pay , benefits, collective bargaining etc. Then you can compare that aspect to the NBA. But to compare the governing and rules aspect to the NBA makes no sense. If the UFC made their own rules and had their own judges then it would be like the NBA.

[@NameLess-tg2qu]

why doesn't anyone talk about a rematch after the Kai Kara-France "loss"

[@user-yb9dg4xm4d]

Because Kai should have won. There is no need to rematch.

[@StrikeNeo]

Is there other sports where the referee have to explain their decision/thought process ?

[@thegasolineman]

Trow away the judges and let the fighters fight till the last man stands!!

[@michaeldonnelly7217]

What's the argument against open scoring?

[@Captainslamomma]

My suggestion is fire the bad judges and get new ones. It's as simple as that. Obviously the UFC is behind these bad judges

[@XPMatador]

It was a close fight man, I cant call it a robbery

[@SomeDudeInTheChat]

Agreed. Kara-France won that. If nothing changes soon, then we could deduce a payoff behind the scenes. Prove me wrong. Please.

[@Mk5VW]

All judges should be watching on a tv !

[@MrJay-ud9gk]

Judges should be EX/Retired MMA fighters. No one else has business being a fight judge.

[@joshnagel8819]

Former fighters as judges is not the answer. They’re all so biased for and against former teammates and rivals that they have no chance of being objective. This is obvious with the former fighters who are now commentating… but at least their biases don’t impact the scorecards.

[@closinginonclosure]

2:04 "Ultably" 🤔

[@_WhyYouMad]

i just dont trust ariel to have an unbiased opinion on UFC/Dana White.

[@joondagoon6774]

He doesn’t cus Dana disowned his ass 😂

[@vilmarycaraballo5320]

This is a recurrent situation and lately more frequent! Even Albazi and his corner were surprised of his winning! But the best was Albazi asking for a title fight!!😅😅😅 What a Joke!!

[@tomessmith911]

Albazi is Belal 2.0 dude will have to win 10 more fights for his shot

[@StoneySoulja]

Why is Rick on the show ??

[@sstech5410]

First round was amir. Second was amir, third was amir