How Donkey Kong Works and how Project M OVERTUNED Him

[@arJunebugSmash]

For anyone who is asking: my melee DK will be active until at least August 2023 in tournaments, I wanna try a couple majors with the guy before I put up my gloves :) After that, I will still play the character, but I won't be fiending for events as much like I was this year. The Kong will never die! Edit: yeah so much for this lmao

[@smackssbm1256]

I'd be curious to see you push another character with potential. How about Mewtwo... ? In any case, thanks for all the work you've put into DK. I feel like you've significantly contributed to showcase how effective the char could be, when the neutral and gameplan are well put together. There are still hurdles, but you've definitely shown they're nowhere near as high when you're good enough. Also, I love Moe. He's made some strides as well.

[@joeess517]

@@smackssbm1256i mean leffen ruled over europe with Mewtwo if you wanna look into his laddering

[@josephhelder4084]

Yo thank you for all the hard work on this character. Watching your Big House run was like being a kid again!! Who knew the Kong could do it!?

[@Dzuh]

for anyone who finds this video now/later, junebug played dk all year and got rank 40 in the world! had a crazy run to top 16 of big house 11 with wins over a couple top 25 players (and a couple top 100 players)! he is simply the goat i think

[@Liimbozo]

@@joeess517 That's honestly a skill diff. Mewtwo is not very good.

[@Vlazeca]

So glad you brought up the four multishining Falco’s. He’d been getting away with summoning them for too long.

[@tangerinepaint3643]

is it fitting or ironic considering spamming down-b to complete -15 minute- 100 man melee is how people unlocked Falco.

[@Vlazeca]

@@tangerinepaint3643I never even thought of that, oh my god

[@MothFable]

DK is literally a Diablo necromancer.

[@SimbyDimby]

@@tangerinepaint3643 100 man melee but yes. This. Mewtwo neutral-B on the edge for 15 Minute Melee

[@ex-x7079]

Imagine if D.K could jump cancel Down B. He'd be crazy.

[@lukemagnotta7338]

Started as a thought experiment, ended up making history. Congrats on the 3rd place Junebug, glad I was there to witness it in person!

[@alsayda7911]

Thought experiment... so fitting that his bachelors was in Cognitive Science (he says so in his Cognitive Biases in Tierlists video)

[@arJunebugSmash]

the vibes were so good there, may make a video about this

[@Icedmanta]

@@arJunebugSmash "How I made top 3 with DK for the first time ever" it writes itself it really does

[@malignantpootis213]

The perception of Melee's cast over the span of its 20+ year life in competitive tournaments has been through one of the most remarkable evolutions as a fighting game.

[@davebob4973]

im waiting for kirby to become viable

[@pon3d120]

@@davebob4973Be the change you wish to see.

[@FlamingZelda3]

@@pon3d120 lmao

[@malignantpootis213]

@@davebob4973 Play smash 64. Problem solved

[@davebob4973]

@@malignantpootis213 smash 64 is for dweebs. i am also a dweeb

[@ennisshabab9557]

Coming back to this after a recent melee win

[@arJunebugSmash]

Hell yeah

[@ennisshabab9557]

@@arJunebugSmash pls make more p+ videos that shit got me into the whole scene.

[@ssjmura1654]

Seeing you do so well has inspired me to pick up the monkey, if only for the memes. How do you feel about uncharged punch? I've been throwing out stuff like 3 winds and it catches people off guard a lot and it still kills a lot of the time.

[@wusstunes]

I can't believe it's finally here

[@iudking3589]

Preforming for you

[@PennyFizz]

i haven't been this excited about a Donkey Kong video since Rishi released his magnum opus

[@scotthaddlesey3188]

this dude never watched the donkumentary

[@quinndepatten4442]

The 9 wind being stronger is a really elegant piece of game design. It rewards you for paying attention. I think that's why they kept it that way. With the full wind you're paying a direct cost of time charging -> move power, but with the 9 wind, you're paying to cost of not only the time charging, the precision of cancelling at just the right time.

[@quarium5681]

Its a purposeful design desicion, thats why it has stayed even up to ultimate (I think there might be a tip for it in Ult as well?)

[@jakefromstatefarm6969]

​@@quarium5681it's also how Roy's neutral b in ult works as well

[@15MinuteUpload]

@@jakefromstatefarm6969 yes this now true for many charge moves as far as I know, for instance the last stage before full charge of the bite portion of corrin's neutral B does more knockback but slightly less damage than the full charge, which allows you to choose between more knockback vs more damage depending on the situation with a slight skill check of getting the timing right

[@Mogswamp]

8:23 - 8:47 This was such a good summary of all the reasons I main DK

[@generamana]

nice to find mogswamp on one of my favorite videos

[@sophisticatedsheep8178]

Why is the Minecraft guy here

[@decent_random]

“Bros favorite stage is probably FD. Cause super flat.”

[@cstick2664]

The limitations of P+ beginning its development and giving initial character designs in like 2010. When the meta of melee, which I bet they used as a starting point for many characters, was so completely different.

[@arJunebugSmash]

Very good point!

[@prophetedubaroque5136]

And then there's yoshi that got a weird meixture of melee and brawl that ends up hurting him more than anything.

[@sympathy_for_strays]

​@@prophetedubaroque5136? Yoshi is extremely good in P+

[@prophetedubaroque5136]

@@sympathy_for_strays really? That's not what I've seen but perhaps. I mean he does have great moves

[@sympathy_for_strays]

@@prophetedubaroque5136 yeah i think it's his strongest iteration. there r lots of reasons but my opinion aside, ShinyZubat used to mess top players up w Yoshi

[@timmasters1195]

What kind of a KZbin Smash creator not only admits their personal bias but shows multiple clips of themselves getting mixed by DK? Seriously, great video. Sometimes it feels like DK is the last PM character in P+. But also Mario.

[@arcspersonal]

Watching this after you got top 3 at this years Supernova! Congrats man for making history!

[@arJunebugSmash]

tytytyy

[@the_bookworm8281]

PM DK is basically what happens if you combine Melee and Brawl DK, predicted the future on SSB4 DK stuff, and then inject a massive dosage of steroids on top of everything for one of the strongest heavies ever invented in Smash.

[@williamwest9204]

U old enough to remember 2.1 Bowser?

[@the_bookworm8281]

@@williamwest9204 No, I do not. Consider me intrigued. I am looking at the patch notes for PM Bowser, and he seemed to get even better from 2.1 going into 2.5b.

[@Totasfunnynumber]

The way you describe down b makes me think of Yu gi oh. "I use Down-B, which allows me to summon four Multishining Falcos to the battlefield!"

[@zachsteiner]

Hope this doesn’t mean you’re done playing DK. Out of every character you’ve played I think your DK has by far been the sickest. I think you have the potential to take him super far. I absolutely loved watching your recent performances. You’re so fucking good man. That match against Adwan at Collision 2023 has been one of my most rewatched sets.

[@turndownforwalt]

You sounded really good in the DK rap June I hope you consider a career in music

[@deep_cuts2019]

Man I’m loving this melee DK renaissance. So much good DK content recently

[@Shingoway]

Loved it. You mentioned that the P+ patch aimed to nerf recoveries across the board, and I was wondering what other philosophies and principles the dev team used when it came to rebalancing the cast as some of the changes I don't completely agree with.

[@arJunebugSmash]

That's fair, I disagree with some of them too! The full changes are on projectplusgame.com iirc but I know some of the justification from conversations I've had with dev members

[@monorail0]

I want to point out how this was a fantastic in-depth primer of DK's kit. Every character could benefit from having a concise overview of setups, combos, etc in this style.

[@Nin10doh98]

Wait a second, this isn’t a Zach Honest video being posted in r/SSBPM... THIS IS A JUNEBUG VIDEO IN MY SUB BOX!

[@eeveewithcoffee9554]

I feel like DK and Pikachu are like Slowbro from RBY. They aren’t better than anything above them but they’re better than anything below them. They’re like the wall between the mid/low and high/top tiers

[@byrne1807]

I feel like peach is the one who’s traditionally played that role in melee, she beats every character below her and loses to every character above her. She has a few close ones, like falco above and Samus below, but ultimately I think she’s the gatekeeper more than anyone else in melee. She kinda just outboxes all the bad characters and gets outsped by all the good ones

[@user-nm9yd4wq4s]

why do people keep comparing things to the RBY gen 1 meta game? Of all meta games on Showdown too? It's such a random metric for comparison. Is the format that popular?

[@sleevebox3352]

the tier list bouncer

[@jessehunter362]

@@user-nm9yd4wq4st’s small roster and well-aged metagame lend it to comparisons with melee well.

[@cammatthewhayes]

this video can't stop aging well

[@SSB_Seal]

As impressive as all of your "I'm playing this character to make a video about it" results have been, the DK especially has just been incredible to witness. Great video as always and looking forward to whatever is next!

[@jonathanc3001]

Here after you placed 13th at Big House 11! Keep up the great work with the monke!

[@5gods]

honestly we don't just need guides we also need daily Junebug monkey rampage highlights :)

[@wakeHSR]

I just wanted to say this video is so goddamn good. The timing of Dk's showing up in more tournaments is perfect for this videos release. Also your perspective is invaluable and as someone that only watches melee its really sick for someone to break down what makes DK tick. I really hope this isnt the last one you do as I really love this series.

[@meleekat]

this is huge tysm my goat

[@orbitalape]

Kongtent is here we are so back baby

[@Phychologik]

8:44 Is that... a fox in space reference?

[@VerbDoesStuff]

I really do love how every single pronunciation of “Donkey Kong” on the internet has become Dunker’s voice

[@00Krohnos]

Damn that eyeroll at the end must have been so satisfying to watch back for the first time. I dream of causing these moments.

[@memenatsuki2577]

7:56 the head nods followed by the opponent rolling his eyes and shaking his head. Lmao

[@froakie1404]

watching this after you got top 3 at supernova, was sooo fucking hype to be in that crowd, congrats!

[@awareclueless]

DK has become one of my go to play for fun characters when Im not in the mood to tryhard and I gotta say you, rishi and ringler have made a great part to this decision. Love how much I learn about this character!

[@dattemay0]

better not be any clips of me getting combod in here

[@arJunebugSmash]

not this time :)

[@t3cchan]

The comedic timing on this video is so fucking good. I loved every second of it

[@kingjacko302]

So excited for this one :)))

[@helioabc]

Finished watching all your videos analyzing specific characters. Really good stuff, would love to see more.

[@baileyayyy5085]

congrats on the big house 11 turnout and sincerest thanks for the flood of inept dks washing over my online sets

[@arJunebugSmash]

Any time!

[@TheAmazingMrSloop]

I absolutely love this series, and this edition is no exception. The Junebug DK arc has been one of the best melee storylines of the past year and this video is a treat of a final product. Though I will say that the rumor mill foretold that there could be one more deep dive arc that could involve one young hero of time, and I am absolutely in support of that if it were to happen! Regardless, thanks for the work put into this video!

[@meleesadposts]

SAY IT OUT LOUD I LOVE YOU DONKEY KONG

[@napstackzz]

The editing on this is so good, awesome video!

[@Aflay1]

“According to all known laws of deviation, there is no way a Donkey Kong should be able to contend with the meta. His jump squats are too small to get his fat monkey body off the ground. The Donkey Kong, of course, back airs you anyway, because Kong mains don't care what the meta think is impossible. Walnuts, peanuts, pineapple smells. Grapes melons oranges, Oh! Coconut shells. Lets mix it up a little."

[@VisaCardholder]

Sounds hot. Can't wait to see it.

[@miguelsi7543]

💯💯💯

[@VisaCardholder]

I saw it. Was hot.

[@professorpick]

This legit makes me want to play DK and reminds me how beautiful melee is. There is always something I didn't know

[@miamira1856]

The amount of dedication you put into these videos is unreal! I totally understand if you never want to do another one but I'd love to see Link as he's going through a minor revolution of his own

[@Josukegaming]

Bro went from having nightmares about DK to being a DK main

[@Nightwalker86]

DK might be even more centralizing in PM than P+ strictly bc most of the other broken characters were fixed correctly.

[@Bladieblah]

Great video, you keep getting better at making these. The jokes were so good, especially at the start

[@bigyoshi5937]

the scared texts

[@mewnessbro]

You're actually so good at making content Junebug god damn

[@isaacn4487]

amazing video as always junebug, these are so wonderful :)

[@arJunebugSmash]

Thank you so much!

[@RealNikTrustMe]

i think the best way to retune DK (in smash 6?) is to make his grappling style more traditional. make it hard for DK to get in and swap his bad recovery for bad edge guarding, but give DK more combo tools with a wide (yet DI-able) combo tree to make him both easy to pick up and tough to master

[@Bladieblah]

DI-able just means no combo's at all since any decent player will properly DI. Melee's DI system works because DI can be used to shorten extensions or reach platforms, not because you can straight up DI to escape

[@rytoryk2642]

It's kinda funny because back in 2019 when I was playing PM competitively, a DK in my region legit made me want to quit the game. I thought he was busted back then and had no desire to play against him

[@miffty-vw1ir]

Watching these videos make me think that DK is secretly a slept on top tier character, and then I go play him and remember why people underestimate his potential.

[@grobtongles]

this is both the best dk guide and the funniest shit i've ever seen. good thing i just got melee, it's tax season

[@Tuckzelda]

great video, adding the little stango interview to keep up with the P+ scene today was a nice touch. DK is BUSTED!

[@Miphos]

Top tier vid! Will there be one on Yoshi eventually? ❤

[@somethingsomething7903]

nice video! anything to say about smash 64 dk? i know nobody really cares about vanilla 64 anymore but i feel like there's quite some things about him that dont get touched on much

[@theobserver4214]

He’s low tier but specifically counters Jigglypuff

[@klarekeum7330]

Yooooo THE BEAST WILL SHINE

[@mauricesteel4995]

Multishine!with 4 Falcos!

[@thelemonadestandman]

You mention that DK is bigger in PM because Brawl's model was just simply larger than it was in Melee. I want to ask, because way back in the day my friend told me that the characters in Brawl all had larger models than they had in Melee and got shrunk somewhat in PM (with the exception of Bowser, and now I guess DK too), is any of that true? Do PM characters have smaller model sizes compared to the Brawl characters? Also the Barrel projectile in Brawl Minus is so fun, I would happily trade away a chunk of DK's mobility to have the barrel in P+

[@arJunebugSmash]

the brawl model was shrunk iirc, but its still bigger

[@skellez]

Just for posterity for anyone wodering in the future, Sakurai increased the relative size respective to stages every game through Smash 4, Ult being the only game where characters got relatively smaller

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

Its finally here! I have been waiting for this.

[@GoldDragon20]

You should try HDR DK. Man’s a menace He’s PM DK with a barrel that functions similarly to Kragg Rock

[@virgiebabie6903]

So, wait… if PM DK, a grappler with a bit of every option, really good mobility, consistent combos, etc. is considered borderline OP… what about other characters with similar designs like Charizard? Does that say much about them in this meta as well, or is this mostly just a Donkey Kong thing?

[@flarpssb304]

14:34 There I am Gary!

[@elibonham4388]

June bug is the goat he's also handsome with that beard srsly why do you have the best beard

[@NightGhost1400]

Wait does this mean no more junebug dk runs in melee? :(

[@key_mochi]

This video is like is Scar had a commentary track over "I Killed Mufasa". Sick showcase and analysis, man.

[@opplerdop]

7:08 with relative ease? makes taking stocks, seem such a breeze?

[@calebrobinson6406]

Love the video! Some advice, you may want to balance your mic, the way its recorded makes your voicec a little harsh. Other than that, please make more!

[@arJunebugSmash]

Thanks, I'll work on it next time, I was trying to fix it in the edit, but couldn't find a good way 😅 I'll mess with the mixer

[@gamincaimin9954]

Can we appreciate how we all came together to watch a video about a bigass monkey's prowess in a 20 year old party game? I love melee and the internet

[@Bladieblah]

*fighting game. But yeah, melee is dope

[@wakkaseta8351]

@@Bladieblah *Party game. But yeah, melee is dope.

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

Since we are allowing all these weird changes to melee with boxes and phobs and what not I think we should just go in and buff low tiers. I just wanna use SDRemix pichu, mario, and game and watch in bracket lol. Seriously though SD pichu is nuts.

[@jacobwillson2545]

Nah part of the appeal of Melee is that there are low tiers that are underexplored. Buffing them would take away one of the main appeals of Melee in that it is a constantly evolving game but only through the developments of the metagame. And Mario is decent enough for you to do good at a local imo.

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

@@jacobwillson2545 I get what you mean. Maybe I should have a tournament and have an SD remix bracket. I know Mario is not trash I have used him in a regional. I mean I went 1-2 but I was there for fun not to win.

[@JforJonas]

Love these vids! A heads up; your mic is clipping quite a bit. If you're interested, I'd love to help with your mic setup. I got a degree in audio and have helped a bunch of other content creators as well

[@CarlosPerez-jv2fz]

That intro rap tho, you might be in the XXL freshman class this year

[@Sundaiiz]

There's definitely something strange going on with the 9 wind punch having less knockback. My guess is that whatever formula they coded for the knockback multiplier is a little heavy & inverts starting there.

[@quarium5681]

This is in every smash game, its purposeful

[@Sundaiiz]

@@quarium5681 WHY?! That's so weird 😭

[@tyjle]

Such a good video. Thanks for all the hot tips, gotta pick up the monke

[@AuroraIceFlame]

This video was supposed to be a joke remember? LMAO

[@SRUFUS3D]

Lore Accurate Donkey Kong.

[@bb97979]

HYPE

[@kestrelynn]

I love the arc hating dk in pm/+ and then getting some of his best results in melee history

[@thepapablood]

I doubt you pay much attention to it, but what do you think of the new HDR DK? They legit did a barrel projectile to replace grounded down b.

[@arJunebugSmash]

That sounds super strong! I haven't played much HDR but I've seen some brutal DK aerial cargo grab + throw clips

[@RiahGreen]

"Give him a barrel projectile too, I feel like brawl minus nailed it" HDR dev team: Hold my beer.

[@christomanci]

This was a barrel blast

[@laundry_guy]

first time i see someone correct themselves when saying donkey punch, made me chuckle, great video

[@uradog24689]

I love seeing this after Supernova

[@ItsCenrryTH]

Nobody can stop him HE JUST KEEPS EXPANDING

[@yungkarp]

fyi p+ changed cargo throw so you can mash out pretty much immediately at low percent and dk doesn't have any confirms off grab at low percents if he tries to reposition

[@HealthyHospital]

Hey I really want to play Project M as conveniently as possible. Does anybody know if there’s a slippi version of it? Haven’t played it in a minute. It’s a awesome to see the game is still being talked about and even played today!

[@alb7466]

Ty for the brawl minus mention, love that mod

[@FuzzyPicture]

4:54 i didnt know that the big punch neutral-b puts you into freefall

[@mancininichols8566]

Excluding 64 and Ultimate

[@kkoolade3882]

OMG Subscribed😍!!

[@mtarantino42]

I wanna know what smashboards article the commentator was talking about at 20:35 and 20:45. Seemed like he got too excited about DK to finish his thought.

[@arJunebugSmash]

He references later in the set iirc lol

[@snakeoilsalesman7743]

YESSS IVE BEEN SO EXCITED FOR THIS VIDEO

[@justicetaylor3050]

I think what caught me off guard the most was giving him effectively a lag free tether grab, lol. I know he has long arms, but low lag grabs are supposed to be balanced with low reach.

[@freddiesimmons1394]

Except on the character that makes "grappling" his thing?

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

​@@freddiesimmons1394 What changes should be how effective the results of a successful grab is, not the ease of it.

[@freddiesimmons1394]

@@Buglin_Burger7878...because?

[@smogon3215]

​@@freddiesimmons1394good grab combos should be linked to the grabs length being difficult/easy depending on what the character gets off of grabs. For the most part, tether grabs or long ranged grabs are balanced because they don't provide amazing combos or kill that much. DK does have both of those, but IC your point since DK is a big, comboable character, so grabs should be a really strong point.

[@freddiesimmons1394]

@@smogon3215 a heuristic like that is fine, but you break heuristics to give characters unusual ways to stand out

[@Ossimsauce]

The beginning

[@ClassicBentobox]

Fun fact since it wasn’t mentioned in the video. The down b hit boxes are only active when the enemy is grounded, and it’s the only set of hitboxes in the game to have that property (as far as I know)

[@freddiesimmons1394]

Falcon and ganon have quake boxes on landing down b

[@ClassicBentobox]

@@freddiesimmons1394 Ah I forgot about these. Additionally Pikachu, Pichu, and GnW have a landing ground hitbox for dair, but I forgot about those.

[@freddiesimmons1394]

@@ClassicBentobox i remember those two in particular because they are melee's secret frame 1 moves

[@ryana3601]

Love your pm/p+ would be cool to see one abt lucario since he's so crazy now (esp compared to mainline)

[@dankachilles9356]

That rap in the beginning was sooooo bad it's soooooo good lmfao

[@Jakerunio]

Okay but the barrel projectile was a really funny addition, put it in the next smash.

[@StudebacherHoch]

Love to see another Junebug video come across my feed.