The 7 Best (and Worst) Things About Echoes of Wisdom

[@ArloStuff]

THE 1 MOST PINNED THING ABOUT THIS COMMENT Metaphor: ReFantazio is out RIGHT NOW on Microsoft PC and Xbox! Check out the game: gsght.com/c/tngslp Check out the demo: gsght.com/c/sev0xc

[@andrehasan810]

Going to review this game?

[@Djindas]

"Undoubtedly, the best RPG of the year", yeah right. Arlo, You're awesome, but have you already forgotten that "Mario and Luigi: Brothership" is set to release this November?

[@chiquita683]

Should have highlighted how the game is so broken you can basically use water blocks to drown every enemy. I'm sure they will release a patch to fix it

[@rmzing]

I saw a high review score for this game, like the 4th highest for any game this year, and I was like, "Hey, what's the deal with this one?" Well, now I know. Very timely sponsorship.

[@Stupidlyepic]

Atlus must have some kind of deal to only promote it for MS/Xbox, so it may come as a surprise to know that Metaphor is also on PS5 too! 🤯

[@Iffondrel]

Something i haven't heard praised enough is the mini bosses. I LOVE finding them and sometimes having the reward be getting the echo for them. Botw/totk had overworld mini bosses, but their dungeons were too small to house actual threats beyond the main bosses. This game went crazy with them! Nothing quite like getting locked in a room with no idea of what monster you're about to face and hearing the music start.

[@grell9296]

Also learning how good that echo was gonna be by getting absolutely stomped by the mob is such a twisted and cool tutorial, I need more of this

[@LagiacrusHunter]

Definitely my favorite part of the game so far. Getting 1-shot by the red twins and then using them to body everything else that looks at me funny is so gratifying

[@matthewmuir8884]

I especially enjoy all the optional mini-dungeons that have their own bosses. Finding Barinade within an abandoned ship was a lot of fun.

[@lgpdsua]

Linel echo breaks the game, actually. Used him alone to kill Ganon at slumber dojo.

[@Rexaura888]

Even the ones that aren’t learnable are still a lot of fun to fight (only one I was meh on was Eldin Volcano’s sub dungeon midboss as it’s the token reskin/demote only with an added gimmick and an extra phase). Wish I could fight them again in the Dojo rather than replaying the whole game, not that I need an excuse to do so. The music really helps too. I’m amazed Ryo Nagamatsu wasn’t involved at all as his name isn’t in the credits and he’s worked on every top-down Zelda since ALBW (plus Nintendo Land before it).

[@Steelilbies]

Salted milk is a very good smoothie to make because it fully refills both hearts and magic.

[@zibberebbiz]

Just like real Ayran 😅

[@tonydelamancha5513]

not once you get to lv 3 power…

[@PhantomShadow224]

I like the salted mango smoothie. I got every combination cuz I wanted to see what every recipe looked like

[@Brute_Studios]

You just got to ignore the issue of mixing SALT with MILK.

[@deadnews1231]

@@Brute_Studios what are you talking about I mix salt with milk all the time, it’s the best! I’m glad Nintendo is finally representing this crime against humanity no one has considered!

[@fangchick93]

Conde is the sweetest thing and deserves a children's cartoon staring him and his brother

[@jameslawrenson1208]

Spoiler It's too bad we don't meet his brother.

[@fangchick93]

@@jameslawrenson1208 I know, I wanted to meet him and see his balloon ship

[@richardmahn7589]

Bring back the dad!

[@projectpitchfork860]

​@@jameslawrenson1208 You can swe his baloon in the credits.

[@smoogieboogie1694]

I can't lie. Echoes of Wisdom is one of my favorite 2D Zeldas now. I enjoyed my time playing and then when I saw someone else playing I realized I hadn't even scratched the surface of ways to approach the game. And as a big fan of the Zelda games that feature the diverse races of Hyrule, I was so happy to have the Gorons, Zora, Gerudo, Deku, Hylians, Sheikah, and even Yeti (or Anouki?) all in one topdown game. I feel like I could replay it forever.

[@jhna314]

2D ?

[@smoogieboogie1694]

@@jhna314 Most people refer to the topdown zeldas as 2d zeldas. But yeah the better phrase would be topdown.

[@grell9296]

The "easiness" of the puzzles and the sheer volume of echo sets that let you solve them makes it really fun to hear about which people gravitated toward. I haven't started the 2nd playthrough yet, but this seems like a huuuge draw for replayability

[@smoogieboogie1694]

@@grell9296 I saw someone playing and realized that I was not taking advantage of the ability to use bind in tandem with echoes. They pulled off some crazy stuff.

[@grell9296]

​@@smoogieboogie1694Fr, bind is totally cracked. Do you remember where you saw that? Would love to see!

[@JDLaney-zk4wb]

Conde does deserve his own segment. I love him so much and want only the best for him.

[@peteyoung3124]

He was an adorable and welcome change. I didn't know what to expect on Mount Lanaryu

[@maximedorion9244]

I think young children will really like him and the stamp guy (whatever his name is) but both are too childish for me and annoyed me.

[@JDLaney-zk4wb]

@@maximedorion9244 his name is Stamp Guy! And to each their own.

[@jameslawrenson1208]

He is the best boy in this game.

[@SailorAnthy]

My heart breaks for this orphaned and alone *child* that has an infantile understanding of what is happening around him. I was mad the whole time. Our boy Conde deserved better.

[@thajocoth]

"The cutesy art style really lowered my guard" - You should know by now, the cuter the Nintendo game looks, the darker it can get.

[@ZeroWolf2322]

Take Kirby as an example! :D

[@Gabbycatty]

did we not learn this lesson with wind waker?

[@thajocoth]

@@Gabbycatty And Link's Awakening

[@timm7524]

@@thajocoth There were some subtle deep cuts in this one, for sure. ❤️

[@DJCalliean]

@@timm7524speaking of deep cuts, Splatoon fits this description too.

[@ridori7376]

One thing I'll add to the "rewards" criticism is that it would be so easy to fix by just distributing them better. There's more than enough might crystals to cover almost every chest and sidequest that are instead just hanging around or hidden under some bush in a random corner of the world. Often times you'll complete a tricky sidequest, get rewarded with a smoothie ingredient, then walk two steps and find a might crystal under a rock. Literally just switch those around!!! It's so confusing. That said I do think this game handles rewards a lot better than BOTW/TOTK. Might Crystals as I've mentioned are basically an improved version of Korok seeds. They can be found in chests, as a reward for sidequests, etc AND they work towards proper meaningful upgrades instead of just more inventory slots. They feel more like nice surprises instead of predictable filler. I also REALLY hope they keep and expand on the accesory system. Such a good way of adding cool unique rewards without even needing to put that much effort into them, just little trinkets that give you minor stat buffs. AND they give a real use to rupies in the form of increasing the amount of accesories you can carry, which makes finding rupies in chests at least more tolerable. If anything I just wish there were more increasingly expensive upgrades you could work towards. Like give me a 5000 rupee upgrade just so that finding rupies remains rewarding.

[@paulroche6969]

Ok, maybe it's just a nitpicky gripe, but Grezzo made this game, not the "Zelda Team". Even in the credits, Nintendo is only lightly mentioned.

[@Rexaura888]

Nintendo even said that they knew they could trust Grezzo with EoW after their work on previous top down Zeldas from their remakes to their originals. It’s like saying that the “Metroid team” worked on Metroid Dread when we all know it was Mercury Steam to whom the IP was entirely entrusted with.

[@diseasedwombat5611]

@@Rexaura888 didn’t Grezzo also work on the 3D remakes?

[@Rexaura888]

@@diseasedwombat5611 That is why I said remakes plural and not just remake as in Link’s Awakening.

[@Cowmoo83]

No way! I LOVED the soundtrack. Very atmospheric yet melodic at the same time. A standout in the Zelda series for me that feels unique in the lineage of the series. Honestly, I’m not personally a fan of the gameplay at all, so the soundtrack is what kept me playing.

[@lizzytheowl577]

Personally I'm a really big fan of the boss music in this game. *Especially* the music for the final boss.

[@mr.cheesytoad5845]

Yeah the music was amazing

[@diamant_2dot0]

It's weird that I can sing the melody of most of twilight princess' boss themes from memory while I can't remember a single of EoW's boss themes (or any themes in general) whilst only playing it a few weeks ago. I think I genuinly just find them not interesting or different enough to stand out to me. (I have two exeptions though. Link's Battle Theme is a banger and the Eldin Temple music is absolutly fire.)

[@Draezeth]

Arlo needs to visit Zelda Music Theory's latest video

[@The.natrix]

@@Draezeth Agreed!

[@CryZe92]

I liked and used the smoothies a lot, because they were actually meaningful on Hero Mode. I feel like more people should give Hero Mode a shot.

[@fathereric3274]

Definitely agree. Funny to hear Arlo complaining about the limited sword fighter mode when you can just make smoothies and use it constantly. Maybe he'll give smoothies more of an effort next time.

[@OChunks]

I turned hero mode on as soon as I noticed it, its always nice to have some extra optional difficulty options. It definitely forced me to think in more creative ways rather than just tanking damage.

[@Sirpoppo]

Id also argue they are the fastest way to make rupees. Even if you arent consuming them, using the materials to make and sell smoothies was the best way to make money

[@BuffPomsky]

Holy i got oneshot too many times in hero mode. With beds and smoothies, any zelda veteran should definitely use hero mode!!!

[@BuffPomsky]

​@@fathereric3274rock and salt smoothies! Tbh i dont even use sword mode that much

[@d4ngerd4d]

I'm one of those people who absolutely does not notice FPS issues whatsoever (I mean unless it drops painfully low - like maybe 10 or less). Like in this video it seemed like they were trying to show examples of where the frame rate was good vs where it was bad, but it all legitimately looked fine to me, and I've experienced absolutely zero issues that I've noticed playing EOW. It's hard for me, therefore, to relate to people who complain about minor or even moderate frame rate issues. They just seem like such silly unnecessary complaints.

[@squiddu]

I feel this is a very case-by-case perception issue, like I don't mind 30 at all, but when it swaps back and forth between 30 and 60 most people are gonna notice a difference, and it's a lot more jarring than just locking it to 30.

[@OnkelPanter]

I don't find these to be minor or moderate frame rate issues. Swinging wildly between a perfectly smooth 60 and sub-30 framerates is extremely jarring and for me it heavily degrades the visual experience of the game, which is a damn shame in a game with such an appealing art style, beautiful environments, and great character/monster designs. Every time it happens it almost gives me the physical feeling of abruptly braking in a car, and it took me a lot of playtime to be able to kind of just grit my teeth and ignore it. To me it's really a blemish on Nintendo's reputation as a developer who values polish in their games and I find it baffling that they would release a game in this state. I would rather they had pulled back just 10% on the lighting effects and other graphical settings if it meant we could have a stable, constant framerate.

[@alexh7513]

I think it depends on the person. I usually don't care about fps, for example the 30 fps in Monster Hunter Rise on the switch was enough for me, but i noticed it in echoes of wisdom a lot. I think the problem is, that it drops from 60 to 30 a lot. It's not such a big problem for me that i would say it's a bad game, but the game would be much better if it would run with smooth 60 fps. But yeah, this game also showed us how important a new system is. Such a a light game like Echoes of Wisdom should run with smooth 60 fps in 2024. Nintendo should give us the Switch 2.

[@Adam-xd9tr]

It helps that Echoes of Wisdom is not the kind of game where I prioritize performance. If this were a fast paced action game then I would be a lot harsher on the frame rate issues, but for a chill puzzle game the occasional frame rate drop doesn't really affect gameplay much, if at all.

[@minhuang8848]

I noticed every single time (well, that's debatable for anyone, isn't it), and I still couldn't care in the slightest. Would it have been nice to get consistent frames? Sure, but man, is it ever such a tiny thing for someone who isn't trying to do frame-perfect speedrunning strats or w/e. I never managed to relate to those people, but I also grew up all the way through the noughties, which means that you basically had no option but to enjoy your games stuttering to hell and back. Literally, even games like D2: LoD were struggling hard. Console games barely were perfect either in that regard. I kinda just feel sorry, that's like having super big issues with your vestibular system because of diabetic neuropathy but you happen to be the biggest fan of VR gaming - imagine basically not getting to enjoy something because of a tiny quirk of your body. Which, I suppose, kind of is me making the point that maybe it isn't silly and unnecessary - just people being miffed at the cards they've been dealt.

[@fathereric3274]

Your opinion is definitely valid, but I have to disagree with you on the music. I spent way too much time not even playing the game, just sitting there listening to the music. I absolutely love the music. I'm sorry and a little sad you thought it was only serviceable.

[@marcuscostello5635]

That's because you are a loser

[@melkorWTF]

Completely agree. My favourites are the river Zora village, the Goron village, the music during the Link Intro section.

[@k22kk22k]

What I noticed when listening to the music is most of the tunes don’t have a main melody. Hard to sing or whistle thus they won’t stick to my mind like past Zelda songs.

[@vanishing_girl]

@@k22kk22k totally agree

[@ssj2matt]

The music's fine. They wanted it to have its own identity for Zelda, as the playable character and for the most part I felt it worked. The overworld (particularly the latter part of the game), Kakariko and a few others are great.

[@MichaelTaylor-qp2xf]

The balance of openness and direction reminded me of A Link Between Worlds, which is a game i absolutely adored and would rank higher than Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom.

[@alphax-shroom6781]

The combat complaint feels more like you've been unintentionally limiting yourself to waiting on echos. There is always something you can do to be an active participant in combat, be it binding an enemy, so that it can't attack your echos and directly managing the spacing or resummoning your echo in a more ideal place and restting its cooldown time after its initial attack. Many echos immediately attack when summoned making them more like an attack spell than a constant combatant . Also sometimes holding an echo on your head helps as they dont bother getting into position, and just keep attacking, spear bokobins especialy.

[@matthewmuir8884]

Exactly. I think a lot of people who complain that the combat isn't direct enough just don't experiment enough, especially with the bind mechanic.

[@kirbydswii]

Im glad i heard about online because I feel like i wouldnt have figured it out on my own. That initail attack make combat way quicker.

[@i81up2]

Yeah, I definitely wasn't active enough in combat when I played. When I saw videos of people using their echoes in more clever ways, I had already beaten the game. Perhaps I'll replay it in hero mode or something.

[@BuffPomsky]

@alphax-shroom6781 basically, ppl complainimg are lacking wisdom 😂

[@Zerolink30]

Yeah, this game requires a level of understanding for each Echo, how to best use them, and your own strategic mind that anyone who just doesn't have the patience will struggle. At least until you get 6 🔺️ and can summon the Lynel, after that, not much is required.

[@nin8769]

For the seasoned player, I'd recommend playing in hero mode. You will then have plenty of reason for smoothies even with the bed spam healing. Also, the automatons are pretty strong and don't require tri power to activate and they can help clear out areas quickly late game when used in the right combination with echoes.

[@Titin-oz6jh]

About monster targeting The best thing is to use echoes that attack right away on spawn It basically become some sort of spell since you can just spawn them again and again if you need/want to reset their attack and they do it right away

[@alphax-shroom6781]

Exactly, Lizalfos 2 and 3 are king at being sword attacks as they attack on summoning as long as your locked on and the enemy isn't an elemental counter, buzz blobs in Jabul water is a Thunder spell with stun that works even though they drown. Carmadillos and Deku Baba 1 are good early game ranged attacks since they roll and lunge on summon.

[@Iffondrel]

This is why the wolfos became my favorite. If I need something stronger later on with a bigger windup to hit more foes, then I'd plan for that, too. The more you play, the more you understand what every battle would be best resolved. It's great!

[@chiquita683]

Whats hilarious is the game was originally designed to be Link but developers found if you had a sword and shield you wouldn't bother using the echos. So rather than making the echoes useful and fun they switched the character to Zelda and took away her weapon 😂

[@Lheticus]

Yeah, I consider overcoming wind-up issues with some Echoes to be part of the process of learning how to be good at the game.

[@grell9296]

A lot of his issues definitely feel like skill issues. E.g. 6:52 doesn't the angler only attack horizontally? I thought it said that in the notebook tip too (speaking of which, he really needs to use the notebook for mob selection)

[@aaronolson6736]

So happy to see a Yeti again after not getting much new in TotK, ignoring how long its been since we saw Yeto and Yeta. Also River Zora living peacefully alongside the rest of Hyrule including Sea Zora, think I prefer the more amphibious appearance of them to the fish/shark people. Its a shame consumable buffs aren't stackable, I rarely used anything that wasn't defense up or energy refill because I could, just like in the Wild games, simply equip an item to fit the situation or the buff wasn't worth using. Was neat to figure out which combinations made potions but I wish there was a reward for finding all the recipes.

[@DC_Prox]

I ended up using smoothies enough to make it a worthwhile thing, IMO. Specifically, I used them for heart recovery several times, but I also used them for traversing severe environments, and sometimes I'd use a Tough smoothie before starting a boss battle.

[@Just_Shaun]

Smoothies are almost mandatory for hard mode. Materials are aplenty and smoothies suffer the same issues as botw/totk in healing abuse.

[@togglebott7748]

I do really wish I could make them faster

[@DC_Prox]

@@togglebott7748 yes, absolutely, it would be great to be able to make them faster, and also maybe make them in batches, like 5 at a time if you have the ingredients (which you almost always do).

[@klop4228]

I basically never used them lol. Just made a bunch at the end when cleaning up some sidequests

[@thediesel1241]

I only used them to get rich lmao. The game is so easy even on hardmode that you don’t need them at all, especially since you are one shot for the early parts of the game and after that you habe like 2 bottles for fairies anyway

[@Smexbi]

7:00 I'm so confused. I feel the opposite. The echoes were so helpful. I sometimes forgot I even can transform into Link, because my Echoes were so good at killing stuff. Especially after the first few dungeons your echoes become unstopable.

[@hiatusfromtheworld]

same. and i love the music. found myself sitting on dialogue, closing my eyes and letting the loop go four or five times. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@minhuang8848]

The music slapped hard, especially contrasting with the Link's Awakening remake (which was fine but didn't bop nearly as hard as the og GB OST). And yeah, the echoes were weird at first, but once you get an arsenal of them to use, it's a pretty neat way to play. Just spawning darknuts and bullying enemies by holding them in place or something. It was really fun.

[@PhantomShadow224]

Yeah, Ball and chain trooper was my go-to damage dealer

[@adrianpadin1840]

At least for me it was annoying to feel like you need to rely on the Echoes’ AI to do the thing you want it to do instead of every other Zelda game where you get to be the one who does it. The lack of direct control makes the combat less satisfying I guess. I don’t think the Echoes system is bad, I just don’t think it feels as fun to me as hitting things with a sword or arrow.

[@PhantomShadow224]

@ targeting the enemy or object before summoning usually makes them go after that thing but the problem is if there’s a huge attack wind up first, they might die before even attacking or if they got hit during the wind up, the wind up resets

[@magman158]

12:30 you can go through the notebook on the pause menu to equip the echo you want. You can also sort there as well, making it a bit easier to navigate.

[@MrMLPfim]

Most crucial thing in the video for me was just 2 words: plushie Conde

[@2eme_voltigeur652]

Most big opportunity for me in the area of echoes is not being able to create chicken echoes. The ultimate glider and to be used as a weapon. Spawn it in front of an enemy and when it gets hit, unleashes the chicken attack waves!

[@zeldaenby224]

That would require killing a cucco though

[@PhantomShadow224]

I went through the entire volcano temple without gliding cuz I thought only cuccos could be a glider 😅

[@-God_Usopp]

I’d give Echoes about an 8-9/10. Lots of Pros, very little cons. And the final boss fight has become one of my favorite in the Zelda franchise. Not top 3 or anything, but def a top 10.

[@Antasma1]

I just wish they didn’t throw you so many bones during the final boss

[@Jillleigh97]

I was really charmed by the writing/NPC interactions in this game! I found myself choosing not to skip cutscenes/dialogue , which is RARE for me. Even talking with the cats was entertaining! I wasn’t expecting that from a 2D Zelda, so happy they put the effort in to make the world feel full.

[@McBehrer]

why would you ever play a game and not read the dialogue and watch the cutscenes, at least the first time?

[@gentlemancaller4058]

Came hear to ask the same question. Why play the game??

[@hypotheticaltapeworm]

The game only lets you skip like 2 cutscenes anyway

[@sunnyta1990]

The cat quest was hilarious

[@thediesel1241]

No way. The dialogues were mostly just absolute meaningless waffling. They either tell you what you‘ve been seeing five seconds ago or stuff you already know. They talk a lot without saying anything. There are a few exceptions like the cats, the stamp guy or the smoothie shop owner in the Faron Wetlands, but especially the main story writing is bland. Characters are very linear and many NPCs just remain unmemorable.

[@illdoittomorrow2368]

If you want to get the most out of the smoothies, you need to do 2 things. 1: Play the game in hard mode to disable heart and fairy drops. And 2: Don't pick up a bed. This thing singlehandedly invalidates the use of any smoothie when you're not facing a boss.

[@mina352]

3. Be like me and keep forgetting that beds exist

[@ObscureFox103]

4: Make energy recharge smoothies and smoothies with high heart recovery. ER is useful in the overworld when you use swordfighter mode a lot, and high heart recovery lets you spend more time foucsing on combat in the endgame. 5: Rupee grinding. You can almost always make more money selling a smoothie than it costs to make it, which is handy for collecting the purchasable accessories

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

@@ObscureFox103 Outside of the spin accessory that allows your spins to stun enemies and the frog ring all the other ones are kinda lame other than the two that allows the sword fighter form to stay up longer which is made pointless in the end game fights. The gerudo outfit is great with the spin assessor because it makes the AOE with the spin way bigger however it unlocks the moment you enter mid game which is the moment you unlock alternate outfits however you can get the spin accessory and level 3 Darknut early on the moment you have full access to the map and the same can be said about the Lynel Echo. Actually while you can get the Lynel Echo right out the gate you need to be level 9 in order to use it as it costs 6 triangles. You can actually use it mid game if you are closing the rifts as well but other than that it is just a late game echo that is only there for completion sake. You can literally beat the game while Tri being around level 6 or 7 if you ignore the side rifts and only do the main big rifts and the small side rifts with it that the game forces you to do Honestly i am waiting to see if speedrunners will find a way into tricking the game into thinking Tri is max level that way you can use the Lynel Echo in NON wrong warp runs as we know there is going to be a non wrong warp category considering WW was found within the first few days. Which by the way the current record is 35min for Any% and 2 hours for All Dungeons as i am guessing after beating all dungeons they just wrong warp into the final boss to cut down 2 hours worth of talking as the current record for Glitchless is 4 hours

[@sacripan4425]

Beds are a waste of time honestly, when you lost almost all your hearts

[@Bimbus225]

I disagree with the bed part because you can’t just use a bed when you’re in heated combat and are one hit away from death. They’re more so the reward for surviving a fight and not having to use a smoothie

[@Merellin]

Did you know, That you can hit the + button to open your compendium of all your echoes and select a echo from there and thus have quick and easy access to finding your echoes without having to use the mile long scroll bar?

[@tatltails3923]

It's still a good bit of scrolling to do, and it doesn't allow you to see what's going on while you're looking for a thing

[@CameronKelson]

Just finished it a couple days ago. Longtime Zelda fan since OoT. I thought it was a fantastic game. I loved the world, the mechanics, the references, and especially the DUNGEONS. Lord I didn't know how much I missed a true Zelda dungeon until I played this game. I wish it was a little more difficult, as I almost beat the final boss without taking damage, and mostly just spammed echoes the whole time, but overall I had a phenomenal time with the game, and it's one of my favorite Zeldas in a while.

[@wizawhat]

I may be in the minority here, but I actually really loved Dampe's Automatons. I'm actually a little sad that there weren't more of them. I loved how both powerful and precious they felt, as they are pretty much ultra high powered versions of quite commonly used echoes. At first I was worried about them breaking too easily, but when I got into the flow of summoning echoes to tank somewhat while I got my automatons into gear, they felt amazing to use, particularly the Tocktorok, High-Teku Baba, and Roboblin. I used them frequently enough to have to repair them several times, and sometimes it can feel bad to see them broken without providing any value in return, but it facilitated some pretty interesting and devastating interactions that honestly made me wish I could play a more challenging game as an engineer character that is uniquely focused on this mechanic.

[@hippoqueen6840]

I used a few of them a little bit and they were cool but I guess the thing is, whats the point of using them. Why would I want to slow down the fights even more by hiding and winding up an automaton (or waste precious smoothie slots with twisty smoothies) to be able to oneshot regular enemies, when I can just summon a darknut and twoshot them. or better yet, ignore regular enemies entirely, theres no reward for fighting, its just a waste of time. this game is way too easy for the level of power of automatons. 50% of the dungeon bosses can be beaten trivially with bind + swordfighter mode and the other 50% only ask for basic echoes, either a stone statue or elemental keese. your weakest tools still trivialise combat while being much faster and easier to use, so why bother with automatons.

[@wizawhat]

@@hippoqueen6840 The appeal for me, and this extends even more to the echoes, is that finding unique and clever ways of dealing with situations is just fun. I don't really understand the argument that its a waste of time. What makes more sense is that you derive a lot of value from challenge, and it's just a fact that this is a very easy Zelda game, especially for players like us who have been playing games for decades. Learning and stress testing systems, pursuing additional mastery through skill or knowledge, is how I have fun with games and systems that are relatively unchallenging.

[@OnkelPanter]

I thought the automatons on the whole were kind of superfluous to the monster echo system and much too cumbersome to use in most battles. That said, roboblin is my wife now.

[@komi___]

@@hippoqueen6840 What do you mean waste precious smoothie slots? You can beat the whole game without using a single smoothie unless you're playing hero mode.

[@Apolleh]

late reply but an added benefit of automatons: you can use them without taking up echo triangles for the final boss i literally had the 6 triangle echo doing the leg work while roboblin played big aoe support and was FUN

[@1996Stein]

I'm so happy there's so much unanimous love for Condé lmao

[@Im_Not_Here57]

I love the summon mechanics and the first Link boss fight. I love that you couldnt take him head on but you have to scurry around, get behind him and bash his head in with a rock until he dies.

[@grell9296]

I also love that the game totally lets you take him head on if you want to! Attacking head on with your new darknut while using your new budget-ultrahand to only let darknut land hits is super strong here The room for self expression in combat is fantastic (agreed on dropping stuff on his head, my first playthrough I dropped urchins on him and in his way and it was *glorious*)

[@OChunks]

Its pretty easy to beat him either by pulling his shield away or using peahat, but restricting both of those options leads to an extra fun battle!

[@Life4Nintendo]

I just spammed snakes until he went down

[@charliephoenix5260]

I'm one of the ones that didn't notice any frame issues. I though it ran pretty well. Really enjoyed the game.

[@MalzraAirwynn]

Volvagia was the only boss that felt especially 'OOT' to me. Ghoma has showed up in countless forms and variations over the years dating back to the original. Like Dodongo, OOT didn't invent Ghoma but adapted it to 3d.

[@browncow5210]

We also get Barinade as a secret boss. Not sure he was anyone's favorite though.

[@DarkLink1996.]

Volvagia WAS a Zelda 2 boss though, not that Nintendo ever references-- wait is that a Moa??

[@DarkLink1996.]

​@@browncow5210 The game data calls it Bori, and it acted more like Arrghus

[@zachwalker3126]

@@DarkLink1996. No? AoL's boss was called Barba, and while it and Volvagia are similar (the Japanese names are nearly identical), they arent the same boss in the way that Gohma is in all the games they appear in.

[@DarkLink1996.]

@@zachwalker3126 Yes, and Majora's Mask's Wart isn't Arrghus, right? Nintendo has gone back and forth, but even Zelda Encyclopedia said Barba is also known as Volvagia. OoT started out as a remake of Zelda 2, and that bleeds into a lot of aspects. Iron Knuckles, sword and shielded Stalfos, Dark Link. The ability to crouch-stab. Volvagia is one of the things brought over.

[@timwoods2852]

With Echos, I find just using the biggest/strongest one for the situation/environment tends to work just fine. All during the water scenes you showed, I was yelling, "Just use the shark!" Heck, I practically cheesed the battle with Echo Ganon by using the sword and shield Moblin lvl 2. And don't get me started on what a game changer the fireproof Lizalfos was against the dragon. Smoothies are great for recovering hearts, but also for cold resistance in the mountains. Yes, doom scrolling sucks! I feel like with the puzzles it all comes down to what you remember or feel like using. I always forget that I can grab a bird Echo, so the wind geysers gave me a bit of trouble. But then you showed the crow getting past the puzzle easily, and I was humbled by my ignorance, yet proud of my ingenuity for still getting through that part.

[@brycemartin1267]

Ultimately, this game signals a significant change in attitude from the developers regarding the lore, specifically Aonuma. If you read the ask the developers series on this game, he specifically mentions how fans have been unsatisfied when the stories contradict previously established lore (aka Tears of the Kingdom). He recognizes how important the lore is for long-time fans. I wouldn't have expected this to bear fruit so soon after TotK but if you've finished the game, you know what I mean. While not perfect, I have to commend Echoes for trying something new while also blending old and new styles of Zelda to satisfy fans. My hope for 3D Zelda is renewed.

[@tatltails3923]

Who'dve thunk people don't like retcons? I'm seriously so glad they learned their lesson on that quickly.

[@Okapi540]

Aonuma is just great in general at listening to fans. He really has his finger on the pulse of the fanbase. You can tell every game takes fan feedback into consideration.

[@TheGoldenNostril]

I genuinely love this game. Love the smaller scale gameplay and echoes are fun

[@ryanwall5760]

I am doing a Hero Mode, No Swordfighter Form run and I am having a blast. It forces me to be more active with my echoes. One such use is binding my ball and chain soldier to push him into position for more hits or using ice keese to freeze smaller adds and toss them into an abyss

[@Heisenbyrd]

16:11 they’re afraid to give us a Zelda maker game because the fans would make higher quality dungeons than we got in BOTW and TOTK

[@JoshTheWoz]

17:18 thank you Arlo

[@CPM955]

The targeting works a lot better when you target a enemy then spawn a new echo. Your echoes won’t stop fighting that specific enemy until it’s dead. Then repeat for all the other enemies

[@The-EJ-Factor]

I mean, I underestimated how difficult the game would be when I decided to play hero mode the first playthrough. Smoothies were practically necessary. I drank so much salted milk. The bosses and enemies do so much damage in hero mode. Most 2 shot the player.

[@charliephoenix5260]

I found the smoothies pretty useful. Especially the energy replenishing ones.

[@matthewmuir8884]

The ones I found most useful were the element-immunity smoothies. They don't just make Zelda immune to environmental damage of their respective element, but enemy attacks as well. When fighting a Wizzrobe, I would have Zelda drink a resistance smoothie, then have her protect my spear-throwing echoes from the Wizzrobe's attacks.

[@appleofdoom]

6:07 I found that the windup for attacks is faster on its first attack, so it's beneficial to keep spawning the same enemy and only using its first attack

[@eyenuh300]

For combat, your echos attack as soon as the spawn, so after the attack just respawn them so the attack again immediately. I was never "waiting around" for them to attack. Combat felt fast paced for me. Going to have to disagree on the reward stuff as well. The echos themselves are rewards. I feel like this game had the most interesting rewards out of any zelda.

[@CryZe92]

Yeah I also thought the game did the rewards really well. Sometimes you'd even get multiple echoes and a whole accessory that all individually change how you approach the game going forward.

[@ketchup016]

I really enjoyed in the early game how you could go into a cave and find a strong echo, grind out a win and now you have what feels op for a while (peahat ftw)

[@LunaticJ]

10:18 The uneven puzzle design really breaks a lot of puzzles, especially Jabul Ruins. Most of the peopelk I've seen play this game (myself included) found multiple ways to cheese the dungeon too easily, skipping that water puzzle and getting the boss key and reaching the boss in under 10 minutes ON THE FIRST PLAYTHROUGH. Not gonna lie, breaking this game is super fun tho

[@grell9296]

Seems like a huuge feature rather than a bug, and I bet it's intentional based on how they allowed goofy exploits in botw/totk shrines as well. The intended route is fun for the general/younger audience, and finding ways to break it appeal to "the gamers". Like you say yourself, "breaking this game is super fun", and I'm not sure we can even call it "breaking" anymore if they keep leaving the window open like this

[@squiddu]

​@@grell9296 I still don't deem it great, because if it's THAT easy to cheese it, then what's the dang point of making good puzzles? Yes, let puzzles have multiple solutions, let people break the game apart if they so wish.. but don't make it so casually easy to do.

[@NeoKat75]

Given that it's the only dungeon that's cheeseable this way, I think it's intentional. And I felt reeeeally good when I figured out how to get to the boss door early, so I'd say it was worth skipping over whatever the dungeon had to offer

[@grell9296]

​@@squiddu This way, the puzzle is optional for people who find the skip. Let yourself feel smart for solving the bigger puzzle: cheasing the dungeon! Plus, you get the added replay value since you can do it as intended next time. From a design perspective, their whole goal is to break the mold and give you the freedom to approach the game with a buffet of different tools and ways to use them, and leaving ways to break the game is obviously part of their design philosophy. Mandating all of the puzzles runs counter to that. They chose a balance between required and optional and it totally works Let yourself feel smart! Have fun with it!

[@mrshmuga9]

⁠@@grell9296These games are less “designed to be free” and more like “not playtested”. Because they’ll make a bunch of tools that can be exploited, and simply don’t care about any sort of balancing to make it interesting. There’s allowing multiple options to solve something, and then there’s outright skipping it. Going off BotW/TotK, puzzles and dungeons are so simple that doing it the “normal” way isn’t all that fun, because they’re so simplistic and don’t bother to take advantage of the tools you have and their potential combinations for interesting puzzles. It’s not “the best of both worlds”, they just phone in the puzzles, and use the excuse of “you can make your own fun” to deflect any criticisms on puzzle design. “Making your fun” should be a _bonus,_ not the driving factor. The puzzles themselves should be fun in their own right. Otherwise, why would I pay you if you’re not going to make it, and I have to do all the work to make it fun? Skipping something is novel once or twice, but if you can find ways to skip a lot of content, what is even the point? Why play if you’re going to skip it a lot? It’s not like it’s that hard to figure out exploits in these games either, especially when it’ll get broadcasted on social media the same day of release ( or within a few). So it’s not like you’re figuring it out yourself anyway. And if you as a designer care so little about people skipping your content, that’s going to affect how you design things. Because why put much effort into something when in the back of your mind you assume a bunch are going to skip it and not see it anyway? This series has now devolved its puzzles for people who don’t like puzzles, which was at least half of the fun of it.

[@CascoreGamer]

I am really loving this game, but one thing I despise that I don't think Arlo mentioned is the lack of a "Retry" option in the minigames. Every time you play a minigame, like acorn gathering or horse racing, you have to talk to the NPC, confirm you want to play the minigame (and sometimes select specific modes), load into the game, and then you can play it. But all of these games have time-based high scores, so when you see that you're not going quite fast enough to hit the objectives, you either have to play the game to its completion or fully quit out, load back in to the regular overworld, have the NPC talk to you, and then go through the process from the beginning of getting back into the minigame. It wastes so much time just waiting when a simple retry option that lets you reset to the beginning of the minigame would have been SO helpful. This was especially egregious in my opinion when I was completing the Sleep Dojo fights. Some of those took me multiple tries, and all the loading in and out and waiting was driving me mildly insane lol.

[@keleynal4424]

3:25 I’m one of those people. I’m staring at these game screens that I’m sure are great examples of what you are talking about… and I just can’t see the issue. Maybe because I’ve never owned a modern XBox or PS console and I’m not used to seeing it better?

[@lukethephantomthief]

I was really worried about Echo combat at first because I was like oh my God this is so slow and clunky but Swordfighter Mode definitely makes a good equalizer

[@micahrobbins8353]

Agree, It gave you an opportunity to actively participate

[@matthewmuir8884]

I really enjoyed Echo combat because of its slower pace; I loved the decision-making aspect of it: picking echoes, experimenting, keeping Zelda safe, etc. I honestly really didn't like the inclusion of swordfighter form; I'm playing the game to play as Zelda, not to play as Zelda-copying-Link.

[@grell9296]

The game is so flexible with how you approach things and engage with it, if you like swordfighter form you can make energy smoothies and just go ham, and it becomes an aggressive mad rush with the meter always ticking. It lasts for a looong time too if you focus down the upgrade materials Also, the "good" mobs like the Lv3 creatures attack fast and hard right when you summon them. Your tempo is really controlled by what you choose to use. Also, the slow defensive mobs give you lots of time and space to set up the *incredible damage machines* that are the octorok and bokoblin automatons, so the slow guys have their place too Also also, you're summoning a copy of the mobs you fight. If everything attacked fast and precisely rather than "slow and clunky", it would completely change its design direction and target audience (kids and the wider adult gaming public, not just "gamers")

[@lukethephantomthief]

@@matthewmuir8884 I’m glad you liked it but it was way too slow for me if it was just the Echoes over and over again i think i woulda put down the game otherwise it was really not fun to me early on

[@matthewmuir8884]

@@lukethephantomthief Question: did you ever experiment with using bind on enemies? Bind is very useful in a lot of ways and can speed up fights: holding scorpions so they can't burrow underground, pulling the heads of deku babas (thus defeating them without having to summon an echo), dropping enemies into water, etc.

[@siraaron4462]

For what it's worth, Hyrules creation myth was actually told in the a link to the past manual before it was told in oot.

[@ChesuMori]

I really wish some of the random treasure chests, rather than smoothie stuff, had like... costumes, or accessories. Even if they didn't want to do the BotW thing and give us a Skyward Sword Zelda outfit... why not different colors of cloaks? A version of Zelda's outfit, but with the weird OoT hat turban thingie? A Seesyde swimsuit? There are also just... so many things they could've done with accessories. Some smoothie effects have accessories, like winding speed, so why not heat, cold, and electric resistance? Run speed up, a second level of jump increase? Speaking of winding. It wasn't until near the end of the game that I figured out that Dampé wanted a mothula for his first invention, so I never once used automatons in combat. No idea why they weren't introduced right after Suthorn.

[@tatltails3923]

There were quite a few more accessories than I thought there'd be in the game, collecting a whole handful of them was one of the last things I did before the final boss (walkthrough-assisted cleanup). But even then, yeah some elemental resist accessories would've been great.

[@100megayoshi]

I'm on my first play through of the game and it's super fun getting new echoes and playing with them. Finding out how exploit each echo ability. Sure I can just use a Wall Tile to get across a room all the time, but figuring out I can use a Zap Zap to cling to a wall while Bind & Following gives a great sense of self discovery. I think this game is really going lend itself for fun replays like speedruns, three heart runs, not using echoes, or beating the game using only one echo. I can't wait to see all the cool exploits people are finding in the game, once I finally beat it.

[@Kaden970]

I actually love the sound track. One of my favorites in recent years

[@Hey-Its-Dingo]

Reason to make smoothies: Hero Mode. If you wanna do a Hero Mode run, smoothies will be a REQUIREMENT!

[@Applemangh]

Smoothies/potions are really a matter of convenience. You never need any of those effects, but having the right immunity during certain boss fights can make a huge difference. And the defense buff, when stacked with the defense accessory is really nice on Hero Mode.

[@ChesuMori]

I really enjoyed this game; it was interesting to see a top-down Zelda doing the Dragon Quest thing of going around and saving besieged villages, the way that 3D Zelda has been doing lately. Going into dungeons JUST to get a macguffin is fine, I guess... but you have that whole area you're adventuring in before reaching the dungeon. I like how Exhoes of Wisdom approached that. There were a lot of puzzles that legitimately forced me to stop and think... but part of that may have been because there are just too many echoes I never used. There are dozens that I literally never even summoned, because... why would I use something weaker than what I already have? Like, after Suthorn, I went directly to Jabul Waters, and one of the first things I did there was discover the shipwreck and find a sneaky way to kill the shark. Just like that, I had the best water echo in the game, and never used any of the others. Similarly, I ended up in the Eternal Forest immediately after liberating the castle, so had the level three sword moblin for the entire rest of the game. That's not even to mention all the random objects... once you have clouds, water blocks, and flying tiles, why would you ever use anything else for traversal?

[@charliefen]

The actual black sheep of the Zelda family: Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks

[@Klatubarada1979]

The Adventures of Link.

[@SethaaSchneegepard]

The only thing I was missing in EoW are some anime cutscenes like LA remake. I would have loved them :)

[@darcidious99]

"Theres no reason to make smoothies" Arlo, play the game on hero mode, I can guarantee you you'll sing a different tune. Those things are lifesavers. I'd say hero mode is probably my favorite thing about the game, I can definitely see the heart up accessories making the game way too easy otherwise but on hero mode I actually died a good few times. Id say probably the worst thing is echo management since it should have been handled the old school zelda way. Automatons were a pointless addition and could just be removed/treated as higher level echoes, and sword fighter mode could have easily been bound to R3. With that, allow 4 echoes to be bound to the d-pad at once so we spend less time scrolling through the list, and each d pad button changes your active echo. Why they didn't fix this after people disliked the arrow fuse system in totk I have 0 clue, but it definitely drags the experience down. Still a good fun game though, good 7 or 8/10 for me.

[@robertm5110]

Yeah the automatons were a huge miss haha

[@grell9296]

Agreed on smoothies and management (though the notebook does help some), hard disagree on automatons. A lot of your echoes will take the heat for you, giving space to set up the crazy damage machines that are the octo and moblin bots. Also, the gold bird is hands down the best glider, and the zol is a great tank if you need time to set something up or just want to use a swarm of slower enemies/backliners. Not using any of tri's points is also totally op, especially when putting all your points into the strongest mobs. Automatons are criminally slept on.

[@jethrojacinto2798]

The dungeons and mini bosses was sorely missed and very refreshing after playing BOTW and TOTK.

[@Hospitabull]

1:01 purplesful choice actually

[@sunfeatherX3]

Purposeful, for future reference ☺️

[@kuraihikari5785]

@@sunfeatherX3you didn’t get the pun.

[@tebbtebberton1007]

7:09 I know we mentioned the lock on thing, but...are we aware of the difference between locking on *after* creating a monster and *before*? Long story short, thier "ai" is set on creation. You can't "order them around". But if you are locked onto something *when* you create a monster, that sets them into "attack this specifically" mode on creation.

[@Adam-xd9tr]

Huh, I didn't know that. It explains a lot of why the echoes I summoned sometimes immediately attacked the enemy I wanted and other times did their own thing. I wish the game told you that directly. Thanks for the info.

[@Rexaura888]

I think it also depends on the echo. Ghini and Moblins for example I’ve seen reliably take notice of an enemy (or in the Ghinis cases since they’re terrible at attacking anything that isn’t a ReDead, switches) after I summon the echo and then lock on. Others like the Lynel echo won’t always go after something I target after summoning it.

[@spooky-helix217]

Use the dark nut and shark echoes for the whole stunlock issue

[@matthewmuir8884]

Also, don't use echoes of the exact same enemy that you're fighting unless you are ambushing said enemy; they will inevitably lose as the enemy will have a head-start in winding up their attacks.

[@dooplon5083]

​@@matthewmuir8884or you could resume the enemy after it tosses its first attack. enemies begin their charge faster when summoned and restore all their health so using monsters like attack spells usually more fast and efficient

[@sidnew2739]

The game has it's issues, but Zelda and her battle-system are so much fun that I easily would give up Link in favor of her for the next "big" Zelda (if they do a similar thing there). She opens so many possibilities.

[@dillanwright8462]

One thing I was a bit disappointed by is that the echo system is very much the focus on the game, but I feel like the Swordfighter form being so much less frustrating to consistently use really discourages using them in combat (you can of course do both at the same time). Plus, with smoothie ingredients being so plentiful it is super easy to keep your energy gauge full. Also, I was so engaged with exploring the world at the beginning of the game that it did kind of make the horse mechanic kind of redundant by the time I was fully able to engage with it. I did really enjoy the story though; it was the most engaged I've been in a Zelda story in a very long time.

[@SimpIeton1]

For those who're still playing, I have a tip for Echo selection: I always press start (+) to select an echo. The grid of 5 echoes per row makes it so much faster to find what you want and consider what you haven't.

[@spannerwindslayer]

You forgot the best thing of this game, "co-op" game between Zelda and Link, that final dungeon and boss were amazing and the way you can hold the boss so link can do his hits, just like zelda already did years agor for the players was my favourite part of the game

[@matthewmuir8884]

The final dungeon and boss fight were absolutely fantastic. I especially love how the end of the fight mirrors Spirit Tracks: where that game had Zelda assist Link in dealing the final blow, this game has Link assist Zelda in doing so.

[@Rexaura888]

Not to mention AI Link is super competent and immortal. While he does his own thing if you stand around and is pretty decent, the moment Zelda starts putting things down (or using Bind), he almost immediately picks it up. Only thing I shook my head at him on was in the climbing puzzle room when I sent out a Strandtula and he didn’t make use of the strand to climb up and solve the puzzle. Inanimate objects it is, I guess…

[@matthewmuir8884]

@@Rexaura888 For that part, it's easiest to use the Thowmp-like enemy from the Gerudo desert to get Link to the upper part of the room.

[@PrisonHoney96]

I think as a whole the dungeons were pretty fantastic. My biggest nitpick though, and this applies to the overworld too: at times there are too many Mario-reminiscent platforming sections. They present some interesting puzzles but I found myself getting really exhausted with them by the time I got to Eldin Temple, which was my first of the second half. Zelda’s jump in those sections isn’t nearly as effective as jumping with Mario or even as Link with the Roc’s Feather, even with the bracelet thing equipped to improve your jump. At times it can feel really cluttered, especially with the heavy reliance on echoes in those sections. Otherwise though I had such a good time with these dungeons, my favorites being Faron Temple and Lanayru Temple. I love how they’ll often start out somewhat straightforward then gradually open up into a labyrinth.

[@matthewmuir8884]

Some advice I quickly learned on my own that will help a lot with echo combat: don't use echoes of the very same enemy that you're fighting, unless you're ambushing an enemy. If you're already in combat, that means the enemy is already winding up their attack, so your echo will lose.

[@Rexaura888]

I think it depends on the echo and if you can get the jump on the enemy. For instance I’ve sent Sword Moblin Level 2 echoes against other Sword Moblin level 2’s and all it took was kiting and resummoning at the right time the enemy was attacking to get him in a stun lock loop instead. I’ve also had times where thanks to the target system a Spear Moblin Level 2 echo I’m carrying gets the drop on another Spear Moblin Level 2 but because it doesn’t see me or my echo it can’t aggro and doesn’t fight back. Now trying to mirror match a Lynel, that’s a struggle no matter how you reposition your Lynel echo.

[@matthewmuir8884]

@@Rexaura888 That's the reason I added the qualifier, "Unless you're ambushing an enemy".

[@charlessellars7871]

The energy replenishment smoothies are really useful

[@theninjasquid2568]

My favorite part of Echoes of Wisdom is how they wrote Tri as an Infinitely better version of Fi, and I didn't even hate Fi as much as everyone else did.

[@davidwhidden9337]

Tri still says really, really obvious rhings like Fi. Nintendo learned to tone down Fi from Skyward Sword HD, and yet Tri STILL stops you to tell you things you just watched.

[@ZeroWolf2322]

@@davidwhidden9337”Stand Back, Zelda.” …. Again and again.

[@tatltails3923]

@@davidwhidden9337 Well yeah, but it feels way less condescending when it's a lil baby trying to process what it saw vs a highly intelligent robot who definitely understands what she's witnessing most of the time.

[@loganb6568]

My expectations have been totally superseded by EoW. Some of the puzzles may have been a bit easy, but I found finding unique ways to solve them their own reward (thanks Wizzrobe echo), I never really had a problem with inventory management as I just kept to 'most used' and used the pause menu for anything too far away, and the slowdown never really bothered me. Instead, the compelling story, endearing characters, genuinely fun dungeons and the balanced exploration format provided everything I wanted from TotK, the game felt truly unique and I love it for that. Also, smoothies are OP! I carried like 5 full energy refill potions around with me at any given time, to the point it's one of my few complaints about the game that smoothies can really trivialise the combat. But the smoothie ingredients are nowhere near worthless!

[@Zuckussbuilder]

Conde is one of the best zelda characters, if we're just looking at 2d games, he's up there with linebeck and spirit tracks zelda

[@tatltails3923]

I wouldn't say he's QUITE on their level. But if Linebeck and STZelda are S Tier, he's definitely still A Tier.

[@jordanjamison97]

I did heavily recommend this game to a friend who only knew Ocarina of Time and couldn't get attached to Breath of the Wild. I thought this game was a perfect modern blend of open world but with linear progression. I do genuinely love this game

[@eightfamousenginesYT]

It's funny cause I just cannot seem to pin down what Arlo looks for in a game soundtrack. Every time I think a game has one of the best soundtracks I've ever heard, Arlo comes right out in his review and crushes my dreams, saying it's "just okay"

[@Adam-xd9tr]

A lot of people are disagreeing with Arlo about the soundtrack. It's not my favorite Zelda score, but I really like Echoes of Wisdom's music myself.

[@rayrayg9]

6:12 The Poe's mechanic is to be chased by its enemies so it then drops the flames on them. Some echoes attack right away, some don't. They each have their own mechanic, different matchups works better than others. You can use bind on the enemy, you can use bind on your echo, instead of yelling at the screenn. The Swordfighter mode being a limited option, as well as the Echoes having their own little quirks, adds to the balancing of the combat. Otherwise people will be complaining about oh just use the swordfighter form all the time (if it was limitless) or complain about how the echoes are OP (if they didn't have their quirks)

[@Zenithal1843]

As a very casual Zelda fan who’s played like 6 games max, I’m loving this game. Artstyle is charming, music is catchy, and the mechanics are generally fun to mess around it. My only issues are the constant scrolling for a specific Echo and some of the minigames just feel tedious at times. Just beat the last dungeon today and I could feel myself returning in the future.

[@chiquita683]

Play Ocarina of Time, best game ever made period. Then youll see how lazy modern Zelda is since Twilight

[@Zenithal1843]

@@chiquita683 Not really interested in that tbh. Currently have A Link to The Past on my radar.

[@klop4228]

My own rec is Link's Awakening. Partly cos I'm replaying it now, partly cos it's my favourite game in the series. Either the remake or the DX release. imo the first Zelda game that's genuinely just a work of art, too. A Link to the Past is pretty great, though. Honestly, I think it strikes an ideal balance between freedom and linearity, as well as having all sorts of secrets and stuff. Just a fantastic game. But, honestly, you can't go wrong with any Zelda game (that's not on Phillips CD-i). Just play whatever's interesting.

[@grell9296]

@Zenithal1843 Use the notebook feature when you're trying to dig up something specific, it's grouped by type and makes finding things much easier, especially when you get used to the order/layout

[@TheFerdi265]

About the Smoothie system: One way for me to make them useful is to switch to Hero Mode and restrict myself to _not_ use beds for healing. That way the smoothies are much more useful, even though most effect smoothies are pretty useless (looking at you Climbing + Key Winding smoothies).

[@Adam-xd9tr]

It doesn't help that in the areas where the bonus to swimming and climbing would be handy you can just buy an accessory in the same area. I do want to do a run with Hero Mode sometime. I didn't bother with smoothies much my first time but I imagine I would be singing a different tune if I was taking more damage on average.

[@SharpEdgeSoda]

Ehhh your summoning armies. Pick a big guy that swings hard and fast. Z-Target. Summon, let them Swing. Summon again. Spam. Lizalfos, Dark Nut, and Sword Moblin level 3 just wreck bosses. My vanilla run has been "No Sword Form" and the that means you refine your tools and get to play peak Summoner that ends up having more efficient combat then Link ever had. ...Unless it's a Wizzrobe. Screw those guys.

[@matthewmuir8884]

My strategy for Wizzrobes was to drink an element-resistance potion and create a group of spear-throwing echoes. By making Zelda immune to the Wizzrobe's elemental attacks, she can shield the spear-throwing echoes and give them the time they need to attack the Wizzrobe.

[@Life4Nintendo]

A fun strategy I learned is to summon a strong melee enemy and use bind to lift them into striking distance of the wizrobes

[@bilsterdilster42]

One of the most charming things about this game are the puns behind General Wright and Minister Lefte's names the first time you encounter them.

[@LegendsP137]

Honestly I can barely tell that the game dips below 60fps but I'm having such a fun time playing the game to even notice the frame rate.

[@selenityshiroiYT]

I'm still using an OG Switch and my game ran perfectly. It didn't lag or frame drop at all. So I'm genuinely surprised that you mentioned performance issues. I guess I must be one of the ones who don't notice frame rates? Also...I finished the game without even meeting Dampe. That's how essential his automatons are. I went in and unlocked them after but never gave any of them a try. Which is a shame that I missed an ENTIRE GAME MECHANIC. (I loved the game though. Enjoyed playing it so much)

[@mistahmeatball8263]

Crazy how big the 180 was on the artstyle lol

[@jaycobobob]

Too bad BDSP's art style wasn't this good 🤧

[@peteyoung3124]

I think it's because this game was designed from the ground up with this theme in mind. They were able to make it more to the styles benefit.

[@vladimiro.6067]

Thanks for the video. I really think that balance between linearity and open world was perfect, I can't think of another Zelda game that does it better. The only point I strongly disagree is about the music, it's on the same level as old Zelda for me and there are a ton of tracks I loved, especially dungeon music.

[@Blueisland-e9m]

I find it funny how there are Zelda fans saying how much they want a Zelda dungeon maker… and there are 3 currently on steam (and one has a switch port) that people can play right now. Obviously, they don’t have the marketing to each the full Zelda community in the same way as Nintendo, but I still find it funny.

[@vibevizier6512]

Quest Master sweep

[@diamant_2dot0]

Quest Master is amazing!

[@lordnul1708]

Conde makes me think of a combination between the Yeti from TP, the Anouki from PH and ST and the Yook (also from PH), almost as if to inply they all had a common ancestor.

[@MikeKing001]

I really wish they just had multiple rows for the echos. Add an object row and a living thing row. Maybe throw a few more in for good measure.

[@grell9296]

They did this with the notebook.

[@alexh7513]

Yeah the down button was free all the time, they could have gave us the down button for favorite echos.

[@tatltails3923]

Or at least a Favorites menu

[@randychristensen1028]

Why do that when they can just be lazy and copy paste the same bullshit from their last Zelda game with no improvements?

[@reddrunner]

In the defense of automatons, not only are they "free" in the sense they don't take up an echo point, but Tocktorok (Octorock fireworks) and Roboblin (Moblin katana) are easily some of the best summons in the game.

[@zammich3649]

octorock i found a bit hard to use, but maybe that's because i was always trying to carry it like in the trailers (for the most part Zelda wants to be moving OUT of combat which means the octorock will be facing the wrong way), but it's probably pretty good if you just leave it. instead, i would use the zol since its attacks go all over (although it's really only *support* for your echoes). moblin tho was amazing. no notes. (deku baba is probably the worst for me. the other deku babas filled all of my very occasional baba needs. like the bird was also shit but at least it gives you good money.)

[@thajocoth]

Volvagia is originally from Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link.

[@michaeljewkes]

That boss is called Barba.

[@tatltails3923]

@@michaeljewkes Translation error

[@ssj2matt]

@@michaeljewkes Volvagia in the Japanese version. They probably changed it due to the NES character limit.

[@hypotheticaltapeworm]

I think Twilight Princess got a fair amount of love in terms of the references, too. The Gohma design and fight looks closer to the Twilight Princess iteration (even the eye laser!) as well as the Yetis being in the snowy area. There's also the Bombfish and little aesthetic things here and there, like the designs of some enemies or items taking cues from TP.

[@beenard3247]

The main bad thing I deff agree with is the smoothie ingredients you find all over the world. I wish they made another collective that felt meaningful. Id prefer something cosmetic like figurines over those any day. But absolutely conde and darston are goats

[@klop4228]

I kept thinking of the Secret Seashells from Link's Awakening. Not sure exactly what they'd be useful for but I'm sure the team could have thought of something :P

[@beenard3247]

@@klop4228 the maimai were so cool from between worlds

[@tatltails3923]

@@klop4228 The Might Crystals were basically Secret Seashells

[@klop4228]

@@tatltails3923 I guess, but also not really, because they're only useful for one thing in particular - upgrading your Swordfighter mode. Secrst Seashells (and Poe's Souls, and Gold Skulltulas) are collectibles which give _different_ rewards, depending on how many you have. Like, if might crystals were a collectible thar gave you a new outfit, then a new wallet, then a new accessory, etc., maybe. But here they're just a currency for a specific kind of upgrade.

[@dominicmallano5633]

For ZEOW The frame rate issues are sometimes annoying, but easy to ignore and not a big deal. The combat isn’t the best, it’s just more fun IMO to fight enemies as Link. The puzzles and ability to “break” the game by going to places which were normally out of bounds is very addictive. There’s a ton of optional content which keeps you engaged. The return of traditional dungeons is also fantastic. With a couple of menu updates (the ability to have favorite echos so you can have a short list of 20ish echos you actually use) and the game probably feels better. The game is fun. I 100% competed the game.

[@panchojorongo]

The only thing I disagree with is the automatons. Roboblin is the most powerful summon-it wipes out everything with a single hit, covering half the screen! It made the boss fights feel trivial.

[@grell9296]

He's seriously sleeping on automatons. The slow attack speed of many of your/enemy mobs gives time to set up the oktorok and roboblin, both of which are seriously heavy hitters. Keeping them alive also makes the combat more dynamic, which seems to be an aspect he's disappointed in based on his enemy attack speed comments (the attack speed comment seems like a skill issue on his part imo, but I digress)

[@vanessathomas9641]

The slow attack speed of the echoes is a strange complaint to me, because it's an intentional mechanic. If the echoes where more competent without you, it really would just turn into a trivial auto battler.

[@SaveMeMoon]

Here is one of the problems with open world games though, cool and fun things can be completely missed since there is nothing in the game guiding you towards them. I only ran into Dampe right before the final dungeon, and at that point I didn't want to learn a new mechanic and just decided to leave it. It honestly made me sad, and while I know I'll be able to get them earlier on my next playthrough it won't really be the same.

[@videoket]

I really like the soundtrack to this game, but I have theories on why Arlo didn’t. Link’s Awakening (remake) use a minimalistic woodwind soundtrack that reflected the “toy” aspect. This game does something in between that and a “big orchestra/AAA game” feel. It worked for me, but might not for all.

[@Rexaura888]

The minimalistic approach to LA remake’s soundtrack was also thematic (as was the toy box look). Here, there’s no reason to be minimalist as the toy box look is purely a design choice (plus it’s easier to be experimental with an engine and designs that have already been established than to make something new. That way in case being experimental didn’t work out, it’s not a total loss). Mind, I really like this game’s soundtrack even without Ryo Nagamatsu with how good he’s been as a Nintendo composer, but yeah I can see why it doesn’t do it for others.

[@taffysaur]

Man, I HATE it when I get trapped in a crystal. 😠 There I am at work, or at the grocery store, or just sitting around watching TV, and boom! Trapped in a crystal… AGAIN!

[@sidnew2739]

I feel you. Getting trapped in a crystal is THE WORST.

[@tatltails3923]

There are references to many other games in the series in EoW, not just OoT. Conde is clearly a Yeti from TP (NEVER MIND, YOU COVERED CONDE), and maaaany elements are strong references to ALttP (the overworld, the Ganon design, many details about the River Zora, one shot at the end that screamed of ALttP artwork).

[@DC_Prox]

There are some echoes that I probably haven't used to their full potential (I could never get in the habit of using a Spinning Tile for transportation), but I don't think there are any echoes that I never used at all.

[@grell9296]

The game is so flexible that you can come at it from so many different echo sets, it's definitely one of its biggest strengths (disappointed that Arlo saw that as a downside) I used the spinning tile *constantly*, even in the post game, but rarely used beds amd the crawly spider was my very last pickup since I just missed it in the opening segment

[@sidnew2739]

The spinning tile rocks, though.

[@diamant_2dot0]

Did you use the snow pokey thing?

[@Rexaura888]

@@grell9296Floating tile has been my third most used echo across both of my playthroughs, the two beating it being Sword Moblin Level 2 and at the top Trampolines. They’re all so good, and flying through stealth segments, I actually found myself enjoying those for once in a Zelda game.

[@zeidandragmire2347]

The only point i don't I agree is the music. The music of this game is so warm, melodious and charismatic, maybe it won't be the best in the saga but it certainly does its job of making you feel in an adventure, for example the theme of Hyrule feels so fresh and new but nevertheless it is a version of previous themes in the saga, that's kind of charming

[@oldgirlgamerchristine7584]

There's no reason for smoothies?!?! Am I the only one who takes damage in boss fights? Protection against fire, cold/ice and electricity? Longer underwater breathing time? Anyone?

[@grell9296]

Same, maybe we both just suck

[@Rexaura888]

You had an accessory for the last one (plus air bubbles or even pockets), and if you were fast enough you don’t even need that accessory (thanks to Swordfighter form and the primary boss not having I-frames). But yeah, saying smoothies are outright useless when a. they are your main source of money and b. the element immunity, damage reduction, immediate heart recovery (and big numbers at that as opposed to the beds which heal up to two hearts at most each time you heal, though that can at least get expedited by getting up and lying back down), and energy refill, Smoothies are so good.

[@timg2727]

The fact that you didn't like the music is interesting to me. I LOVE the music in this game and think it's top-tier for a Zelda game. You're the only person (or puppet, whatever) I've heard saying it isn't that great.

[@GamingReinvented]

Gotta agree with most of the list here. Love the characters and locations in this game (including Conde obviously), and the story and dungeons were a pleasant surprise too. But yeah, things like the music felt like they could have been better, as could the echoes menu. Will say though, a few things that could be added: 1. Horses seem really underutilised in this game. They're used for the horse racing mini game and the two side quests where you get them, and that's about it. Given you can use echoes and bind while riding a horse, it's kinda surprising that side of things is never really explored. 2. Conversation UI is a bit lacklustre. You'll often not get a chance to instantly retry a mini game (or even quit mid game if things are going poorly), so you'll have to sit through loads of dialogue each time. 3. Enemy variety is incredible. Deep cuts like Arurodas, Moas, Bio Deku Babas and others come right out of left field, and offer a ton of gameplay variety. 4. Side content is a huge step up in general, with entirely optional bosses and dungeons to find in the overworld. Seeing a familiar face return in one of these just feels almost unreal too...

[@klop4228]

To no. 3, my brother randomly remarked, playing BotW a couple months ago, "whatever happened to guays?" I thought "what? Who cares? They only showed up in like two games" And then they brought them back for Echoes of Wisdom for whatever reason. Can't say I'm upset either haha

[@GamingReinvented]

@@klop4228 Oh that's a really good one! Forgot Guays weren't that common in the series. Same with the Wolfos now I think about it. And the Freezards.

[@klop4228]

@@GamingReinvented Freezards were also such a strange but welcome throwback. Also pretty useful haha