Let's explore "that" Official Forum post...

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#ffxiv #arthars

[@Neurometry]

I wish people wouldn't misinterpret "casual" as "braindead", "easy", or "effortless", instead of the actual meaning, "low committment".

[@0Fyrebrand0]

That's what it means in any other context, man. "Casual" games are things like cozy farming sims, Candy Crush, Words With Friends, etc. If someone asks you to recommend a casual game, you don't go like "Sure, how about level 100 raids in FFXIV?" You can't tell players they're entitled for wanting the game to be easier, while also telling them they are playing "casual" content. It's Normal content. It's level 100 Normal content, and it should be harder than what they were playing at level 50, 60, etc. But if you call it "casual," then words don't have any meaning. Literally the next step up is called "Extreme."

[@DuelerIsKing]

​@@0Fyrebrand0 Casual: Single lockout, light coordination, very lenient(dungeons). Midcore: Multiple lockouts, heavier predetermined coordination, still allows for a few mistakes(Extremes). Hardcore: Even more lockouts, permutated on the fly coordination, party wipes on almost any mechanic failure(Savage/Ultimate). Would you classify it any differently? If i try to make any classification under casual we run into content that required literally nothing from the player.

[@JayBigDadyCy]

Casual means exactly those things - easy, Easy going content is easy. Braindead and easy are not the same.

[@airynod]

@@0Fyrebrand0 Bruh, you are playing an MMORPG. There is no MMORPG that falls into a casual game category. You can be a casual player as you want. That doesn't mean you don't have the "git gud" moment. Even Candy Crush gets harder and harder as you progress. If you want a cosy experience, you can always be a crafter and gatherer.

[@Lyu-Phy]

The people that want everything to cater to them and be overly simple and shitting on everyone else in the process are not the average casual crowd, these are turbo casuals. Misshapenchair called them the shitters.

[@nanamitin]

I don’t understand how people can play this game for potentially years, level all the way to 100, and still be unable to do basic normal content/mechanics

[@no_way_I_care]

My thoughts exactly

[@ebonyglow2442]

It's because the people who complain about the supposed difficulty are not playing the game as a game, but as a replacement for actual social interaction.

[@FaeAvalon]

That part

[@remisteinmann6486]

@@ebonyglow2442 Nailed it...

[@Siul_987]

@@ebonyglow2442yup, they expect the game content to be as hard as writing in the party chat.

[@xierotron]

"game too easy, we healers are going on strike" then "game too hard we striking"

[@joshuamaurer9784]

Everybody be striking

[@ArchieGamez]

Dear god 😂

[@CivilChev]

HOW?! How are low commitment players going on strike when WHM is such a fun and complex healer?! Sure I only have a few DPS buttons but the healing kit is so robust I'm STILL missing out on some free oGCD heals that I haven't properly integrated into my healing priorities. HOW are people who are less committed to the game complaining about how easy WHM is to play?!

[@gbreedlove]

@@CivilChev I dont agree with the post by any means but to be fair these two things are not at odds. The healers are largely saying the content that is supposed to be hard is not hard (for healers) and this post is saying the content that is "supposed to be easy" is not easy. This is obviously all subjective but they are not the same points being made.

[@thenethuns5271]

@@gbreedlove They are not mutually exclusive. It is the casual players that are complaining about healers not have enough to do and the game being too hard. News flash: It was the casual players that complained healing was too hard back in the day; That's why healers have less buttons. Here's a secret, everything up to savages can be cleared by ANYONE. All the content up to that is easy. Every fight is binary, the mechanics are the same every time and if people actually learn their jobs and the mechanics; They will clear.

[@italian504]

There is a mode for this person: KZbin videos. No efforts. Full story. No headaches

[@justwatching6118]

Also no sub required 😂

[@kurtisseid8361]

I don't know, it might also be too hard for them.

[@Diddz]

@@kurtisseid8361 watching ads (savage) too hard for them and wouldnt want to pay the premium sub or install an adblock 🤣

[@kfk4441]

Completely true

[@Clunkledunk]

The one person who said their anxiety prevents them from playing with others because their heart races and their hands shake so much they have trouble keeping them on the keyboard should -really- consider not only not playing this game, but seek help. This game clearly causes them distress, it's not healthy for them, so they really should stop for their own good

[@OMGKangelx]

@@Clunkledunk yes they’re complaining about this game but surely if it’s that extreme any game would cause that same reaction, do they expect every single game to be dumbed down just so they can play when in reality they should not even be engaging with things that give them that severe of a reaction

[@ngwoo]

Or use the game to help work through it. Open PF, join a party farming FATEs, and hang out a bit. Zero stakes, zero expectations, but they can hit some enemies with 7 other people and get a feel for it.

[@Tessa_Ru]

I was like that when I started in HW. I worked on it, i watched the miztek dungeon guides so surprises didn't trigger my anxiety more. Pushing through it actually helped me a lot irl to just, be more normal. You're right that if they want the game to change for them, they should stick to solo games, but I encourage other people who want to be better and get control of them self to keep trying.

[@MrLocoSuave]

Why do we need to suffer other people's mental issues..., in a video game!?, that's nuts 😂

[@Renfa_Arviette]

no it doesnt ,social anxiety might not just happen because of this agme, i want to be perfectly clear : even tho THEY have those symptoms: THIS might stil ldo them better then it hurts them, this might still HELP Them alot more then you think

[@Tyrbris]

I like the direction DT has taken with normal mode content, but I dread getting stuck in roulettes with these people that will just give up or never learn.

[@JaquanIV]

tbh this is only a problem for leveling roulette. All the other good exp roulettes are pretty hard to get bogged down by one bad player and all the roulettes that give tomestones can be replaced more or less by trains.

[@mocabunn]

That's what the kick function is for.

[@thiagogueiros9663]

@@mocabunn have had ragequitters on first boss of cactus temple, even after we beat they quit.

[@JaxParowFF]

Funnily enough these seem to be NA centric issues. I rarely encounter people like this on JP DC.

[@liquidefreet]

Haven't seen this in EU datacenter either. Oh sure we had a wipe or two but nothing out of the ordinary.

[@TKing95]

"Normal's too hard, I did it once and didnt understand the mechanics!!!!" WE. GO. AGAIN.

[@Mr15moss]

YES. WE. GO. AGAIN.

[@mrbonjangles4408]

YES. AND. AGAIN

[@Obolisk336]

AND. AGAIN.

[@aramaiclvt6209]

AND. AGAIN

[@prod7906]

I stopped playing because the game became to easy. Savage in EW was so easy that a blind three year old can do it. Disgraceful decline.

[@AVAIong]

Even casual players don't like the turbo-casuals lmao

[@diddlebop7481]

Surprise surprise, you don't have to be elitist or hardcore to like hard content.

[@armorparade]

bc the secret is these people aren't actually "casuals". they're people who consider playing the game an obstacle to the reward at the end. both casual and hardcore(or whatever distinction you want to make it doesnt matter) want to play the game, they like playing the game its the guy who constantly complains about being forced to move while doing their rotation thats the issue. its the guy who doesn't like anything that catches them off guard. if it feels bad to them it's just bad period and nothing changes their mind.

[@CivilChev]

@@armorparade you nailed it!

[@FlavorsomeMusic]

I'll go farther than that, I'm a casual player, and turbo casuals like this ruined the game for me, or at least, it's what it feels like. Dawntrail is a step in the right direction that gives me hope that casual content will gradually become rewarding and challenging again, like in STB and before, so I can find value again in standing out and getting better in that particular casual niche. I was doing fine in stormblood with TP, actually meaningful threat mechanics and brutal dungeons despite being dad-aged and having responsibilities. :P

[@amozite]

"casual" is euphemism for "bad" or "not wanting to put in effort"

[@vaan_]

2:46 this exactly Ivalice was more punishing (not harder) and people still did it. There's this historical revisionism going on where these people say that Ivalice during stormblood was dead queues and that most people would abandon it after queueing, I played throughout the whole expac and farmed most of the armour sets and that couldn't be further from the truth. They know they're full of crap so they gotta make up these stories to bring everyone down to their level.

[@kisparks]

Ivalice was very much alive during stormblood, but people did ragequit if they wiped on the first boss in rabanastre. It was oddly effective at filtering people who didn't want to try at the time. Even in it's gear-crept state, ivalice is a shining beacon of good alliance raid design. Needing ivalice for bozja made me so happy because I got to re-enjoy that content with new players from the wow exodus.

[@Ren99510]

To be fair some people quit anytime they get anything but CT. I'm the opposite, I quit CT. I'd rather fate farm for 30 minutes lol

[@kisparks]

@@Ren99510 with the changes to alliance roulette, you are actually punished for getting CT by taking a penalty to tomes received and EXP.

[@Direwolf13PS3]

Ivalice is my favorite alliance raid series, and I'm a casual. Thunder God Cid's voicelines are legendary.

[@youtousim]

Arthars bonding with based Casuals is the most wholesome story ark of DT so far.

[@ArtharsFF14]

hey thanks man :D

[@holowisewolf1688]

​@@ArtharsFF14no, thank you, I've never had a youtuber call me proof that the community is getting better before :D

[@Silidirian]

This forum post is exactly what people mean whenever they say the real issue is the toxic casual atitude and not toxic elitism. The overwhelming majority of casuals won't clear, let alone try to do the normal mode raid, yet will see people struggling with it day 1 because new content and use it as an excuse to say the game needs to be easier and cater to them when even if they do nerf the fight and make it easier they will never set foot into it.

[@OMGKangelx]

exactly, the amount of casuals afking in limsa that haven't even made it to 70+ in a year are the same ones crying about this stuff. alot of them dont even touch the content or run it for glams and never touch again

[@DuelerIsKing]

Honestly in a month when everyones over geared these people wont have anything to complain about because the other 3 players can finally just drag their corpse through the dungeons again.

[@VGPorage]

It would seem overkill to actually nerf it anyway when it's consequently gonna "nerfed" soon when more gear comes out anyway.

[@StormierNik]

Healers of their capacity is the reason for the healer strike in the first place.

[@StormierNik]

​​​@@DawnAfternoonit's legit wanting to be passively engaged and not actively engaged. It's part of why react and let's play content is so popular. Some people have gotten so lazy that they can't even bothered to have active engagement and want to just be spoonfed dopamine instead. They want to be rewarded for nothing and celebrated for nothing. But these people should not be listened to. Because they're also the types that keep buying and keep consuming anyway despite their complaints. They're the types to see a new shitty Pokemon every couple years and still buy it and after go "man this sucks" and then keep playing it. Because if this is too challenging for them, that means their main course is the story and dungeons anyway, something they'll still try to keep experiencing. And they will still play normal raids anyhow for the story. They will suffer until they adapt, and that's the adversity ff players deserve.

[@admiralcoffeemaker6310]

I have been playing for about 3 years now and this expansion is when I decided to try out harder content. I have to say, the higher difficulty of dungeons made it easier to transition to extreme imo. And hey, I had to watch hector's 15min video on ex1 and still wiped a bunch BUT, I kept trying and finally managed to beat it. Idk where I meant to go with this, just wanted to share my experience as a casual player.

[@karelposedi]

You did great! Keep it up man you got this!

[@Siul_987]

@@admiralcoffeemaker6310 is very normal to wipe a lot until everyone learns the mechanics, but keep up the good work, you go this!

[@CivilChev]

@@admiralcoffeemaker6310 and that's natural. The wider the skill gap is between content the more alienating that content is. By making casual content harder it makes it easier to be more comfortable jumping into harder content.

[@morewi]

By harder content do you mean the lvl 100 dungeons?

[@Siul_987]

@@morewi he said is extremes, but the dungeons eased up doing the extremes because there were not as easy as previous dungeons.

[@melissas4874]

These people don't realize that early raiding experience and the dying is usually funny to most people and pretty casual. It is funny when you fly off a platform because you just didn't understand this new ability. They say it is anxiety, but when I first started MMO's I was the same way and am still that way in FFXIV sometimes. The difference I notice though is in WoW when a new raid comes out people expect you to know mechanics because people may make a guide for bosses in beta. In FFXIV the reason people don't mind other's dying the first week or 2 is because there is no beta so it is understood that nobody knows what is going on. I think this is the biggest reason I'm against any FFXIV beta as it keeps everyone on the same level the first couple of weeks.

[@Cloudo4]

True. Thats also the reason why I love doing savage day 1. NO ONE has guides. There is no point jumping to other groups every 3 wipes. The other group will also have no idea. Its the best time of doing content.

[@fean2712]

Last week my FC was teaching me Valigarmanda EX. There was a point where I used Stardiver and the animation lock prevented me from getting to the safe spot for a mechanic. I immediately commented to my FC that "I Dragooned" then they poked fun at me and we continued on. It was fun and a really good experience for my first ever current EX. I also love the first couple of weeks of new content, because I have some anxiety about being good enough. The fact that there are no guides and everybody has to figure it out is great for me, because it lets me lower my expectation of my performance without feeling like I'm being a bother to other people. If that changed to "you should know the fight day 1", I don't think my sub would last long.

[@joshuayung5158]

@@melissas4874 there's an unusually large, or at least loud, subset of this community that treats death and/or failure as an existential crisis and impugning of them as a person, when XIV deaths are basically some of the most meaningless deaths in gaming. You don't go backwards in progress, you don't drop loot, repairs are cheap, your cooldowns get reset. Even with all that, there are a lot of people who completely melt down when confronted by a momentary failure, rather than learn to do one thing better. It's genuinely distressing them somehow that their virtual avatar fell off a platform and is lying "downed" for 10 seconds before they get a raise. I'm not going to psychoanalyze but I'm sure at least a few are wrapped up in their WoL being a projection of themselves to an unhealthy amount, and struggling with content breaks their internal narrative. These complaints are the inevitable result of story content being tailored for this attitude under the idea that "well it's story, anyone should be able to do it". Meanwhile, our 8 man FC group started hunting each other with the catgirl uppercuts after our initial clear run (reclearing for drops).

[@katiekaliber]

​@@fean2712 Lmfao i smudged off the map a few times trying to be cool while getting to a safe spot and it was hilarious. Done multiple ultimates and that shit still happens. I think a lot of people overestimate how perfect you need to play to clear any content in this game xD

[@steelclackers2611]

This is why i like doing raids first day if possible. I still remember Nier dearly. Or how we cleared one of instances in Bozja with 5 minutes left on the timer 😂

[@holowisewolf1688]

Hi, im the casual catgirl. Squeenix deleted my really spicy posts. Xeno made a video addressing the need for midcore content like that. I and many others are part of the community that have desperately wanting something between normal mode and extremes, and Endwalker never did that. Dawntrail's game design as got me doing extremes. Everything feels so good, theres an actual linear progression from dungeons to trials to normal raids to ex that didnt exist in Endwalker, since everything easier than extreme was dumbed down to baby difficulty.

[@RTuga02]

DT is a positive step towards good content progression. Not only that, but fights are feeling a bit fresher and funnier. Last fight of new raid, seeing people gap closing to their doom, was funny as hell. It pains me to see these kinds of posts appearing in foruns, cause they might actual hear these people and push it back to EW levels.

[@valberline]

you cooked, keep spitting ginger forum catgirl

[@glock986]

I was permabanned from the forums for comments far less spicy comments than you had made. The forums are just hilariously inconsistently moderated and there is 0 transparancy from SE. There is a reason almost 0 serious discussion takes place on the NA forums, dont feel bad. You hit the nail on the head in your posts dont worry.

[@holowisewolf1688]

@@glock986 I was banned for like 45 minutes while they delete a few posts :D

[@TheAnnez0r]

Absolutely! I see my super casual FC people finding challenge in the expert and then tackling Extreme and Normal raid and actually dying and dying and dying but still trying to push through. Having normal raids be a form of "savage raiding" to lower skill players is wonderful. They have actual content to hone their skills. They are motivated to do the content which is awesome!

[@mrnevermore]

As a severe casual, I appreciate the upscale in difficulty. It means that, when I have the chance to play, I actually get a feeling of accomplishing something rather than breezing through content with no enjoyment at all

[@Dor_Z]

How did someone struggled in EW? the dungeons were a joke....

[@Spas176]

maybe Dead Ends is difficult? but I feel that to these guys, even Smileton may bring too much challenge. ddx

[@Itama22]

Real Talk, I loved grinding Dungeons in Roulette during Endwalker and I saw plenty of people struggling in Endwalker Dungeons, but never to the point where the dungeon is impossible to do, but I'd still say it's true from my experience. It got so far with the roulette experience, that I started to only do those as Paladin or Warrior, so I can solo any Boss if necessary. That descision didn't come out of the blue. There are a lot of casuals and I also feel the dungeons/raids this time can be very difficult for those people, even I don't like to do expert Roulettes anymore since Dawntrail because the experts are just no fun, it's too much shit to dodge and sure, difficulty is fine and all, but only to the point where it starts getting frustrating or too exhausting in the context of a casual roulette experience.

[@TheSpeshhChild]

I have no problem with EW content but me leveling black mage got stuck in a 91 dungeon for 90 minutes before having to say I'm sorry but this isn't finishable because the healer died 5 seconds in to the boss every single time. I've also had healers who don't know how to press esuna on the 90 dungeon so had to leave as well 😑

[@Spas176]

@@TheSpeshhChild I maxed BLM with ENDW too and I was playing well. It's been 4 expansions since ARR you think they would be used to the difficulty by now.

[@Redcritxx]

it just shows you that there are really alot of very terrible players out there it wasnt that apparent in EW cause content was piss easy now the shitters are coming to light

[@NotTheWheel]

OH SHIT That's me! I'm the Lala at the end. Nadda Daweel (NotTheWheel)

[@TheWickedWizardOfOz1]

Thank for your words! I couldn't get through the third normal difficulty fight of Arcadion yesterday for various reasons. As a scholar, I LOVE THAT FIGHT. It makes me cry. Doing basic EW raids was braindead. I didn't even have to use my shields in the 9th fight of EW (the "Eat, Fight!" Guy) and could just DPS with my one damage button. Now I have to worry about MP management and knowing that if I don't put up shields well, PEOPLE WILL DIE. I feel like Kevin Bacon in Animal House, getting spanked and telling Yoshi-P "Thank you sir, can I have another?" I am having the time of my life. Yes, it's hard, yes, we wipe, and yes, I had to stop for the night because I hit a wall where I was just cementing bad habits instead of learning. And *I want to go back.* EW raids are just roulette fodder that is so dull I don't have to think. DT raids are heaven. I hate my life, but I'm in heaven. I've joined a static in my FC and I'm hoping to do hard content because being challenged *is fun.* There's no satisfaction in never failing. I absolutely despised the MSQ storyline for DT, but if the raids continue like this, I'll actually stay subbed and enthusiastic. I was considering stopping, because the story was my main draw and it was terrible. These fights (both the raids and DT dungeons) are looking to turn the game into something I want to play, instead of just experience for the story.

[@djbootymeatlive1484]

keep fighting for what you believe in lil bro

[@NotTheWheel]

@@TheWickedWizardOfOz1 We fight, We get beat. We rise to fight again. Keep doing your best. Everyone is at different stages of their journey. For me doing things in Party Finder blind and doing Savage in Party Finder is the next step of my evolution. I'm hoping to clear some ultimate by the end of this expansion. We are always growing always learning. Just because we're not at the peak doesn't mean we lack the capability to climb. 💙

[@benlarkin857]

@@NotTheWheel Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not to who somebody else is today. Who cares how good someone else is at something, you're not in direct competition with them. And even if you were, you can only focus on yourself. You have the right attitude, good for you. Life is hard, anything worth doing takes considerable effort and often extreme discomfort from repeated failures. But that makes it all the sweeter when you succeed.

[@MrBackeby]

You're a very inspirational lalafell!

[@Feonir44]

How do these people function in real life? Do they drive? Are traffic lights surprise mechanics? Do they break down crying trying to figure out tax and interest on bills?

[@katiekaliber]

lmfao that's exactly what i said. it's unreal.

[@holmesholmes.8784]

i would break down trying to figure out tax

[@TalonsII]

Man the new raid fights are so well telegraphed and easy to follow. Some of the best designed fights in the game so far. People really just want to play the game without using their eyes.

[@Cherryblossoms110]

7:58 "We are the one that fund your game" ...to be honest... the ones who fund the game are actually the crazy omni crafter marketboard-obsessed whales who have 20+ retainers spread out across multiple alts, not the casuals I didn't think it would be possible to whale in this game but the whales always prove me wrong

[@PipoPoppy]

As a casual player, this forum thread is so frustrating. We've got all of these lifelines like the easier options for Solo Duties and the dungeon trusts. In most cases normal mode content can be cleared with less players than the base composition and deaths are a slap on the wrist. As much as I enjoyed the Endwalker dungeons myself, everything in DT is so refreshing to me because It's not the same again AND you also have all of these lifelines. This is what I loved about the Stormblood dungeons, too. When I reached the expansion I really liked how distinct the encounters were from HW. And now all of that is playable with Trusts which let you pick your pace and are inherently slower. What is the solution here if even all of these lifelines don't help? Because you can only simplify things so much before you just get something that isn't even a game. And if people want that they can go play an auto-battler or walking simulator, there's plenty of them out there. And it is even more frustrating knowing that people with disabilities can do just fine. I don't know about any of the players complaining in the thread, but I've met quite a few disabled players doing really well in Duty Finder. If a disabled person can do it, so can anyone else. As that one forum post said, you can do it if you're willing to learn.

[@SageTigerStar]

Personally I can't wrap my head around how people are having such a hard time with the normal dungeons. I consider myself a casual player who typically avoids harder content on purpose (I do have some old on-content Savage clears from ShB, and extreme clears up until Zodiark, but I may do the rest at some point), but I was able to clear the story dungeons with the NPC Duty Support with the 2 new jobs, and I had no idea how to play them. Normally, I'd be more supportive of casuals having a better time, but like...are they just standing in ALL AOE's and blaming the party for their lack of survival? All I hear is complaining that it's "hard", but like..no examples of what they're actually struggling with.

[@mrblackjacker32.03]

I do remember that a decade ago we were slinging "git gud" as a laugh to people that want it easy and more often than usually it was an advice

[@nebula8851]

99% chance these people are Genshin players, I'm just saying.

[@mrblackjacker32.03]

@@nebula8851 my closest assumption was that but I kept that one away just for not wanting to ignite troubles

[@nebula8851]

@mrblackjacker32.03 Nah, it's alright to say. Genshin significantly lowered the bar for difficulty, as it's a build check rather than a skill check.

[@Shinnouryu]

Remember they asked for an ultimate story mode.

[@aaronh678]

Rememeber they removed hardcore dungeons X years ago. That was the tide of coddling this type of player.

[@prod7906]

@@aaronh678 You can blame wow players for that. Ever since the game became more popular for them, the games been horrible.

[@ProfiteerProphet]

@@prod7906 Of course my guy. It is all the evil wow players' fault. There was absolutely nothing wrong with FFXIV before the WoW people came, every decision was well liked, there was never any controversy. And, of course, every bad thing that happened is because of the WoW players. They are notoriously story focused, for example, so this sort of complaint is right up their alley. Also, we all know that they are the ones with most access to the devs. Of course.

[@romanbloomfield9066]

@@prod7906 M+ dungeons are literally the most popular content in WoW....

[@TheFurrLord]

@@prod7906 Shit man, I forgot that the WoW exodus was the reason why Amdapor Keep, Pharos Sirius, and Steps of Faith got nerfed multiple times.

[@bluesrike]

A lot of people have forgotten the last line of "Answers".

[@drchocolatetv]

this is the first expansion since stormblood where i haven't fallen asleep during expert runs

[@renemuller7383]

Yet. Wait for the 4 month you have to farm the same 3 dungeons and you will fall asleep again.

[@joshuayung5158]

​@@renemuller7383I mean. In endwalker and shadowbringers dungeons like academia anyder, smileton and stigmascape were snoozers from the start. Twinning gets a pass cuz I like the music. Tender valley and strayborough aren't exactly mind melters but they're involved enough.

[@renemuller7383]

@@joshuayung5158 : doesn't change that they will become snooze-fests quite fast. frankly spoken alexandria and tender-valley is already in that state for me.

[@shawnscouten5184]

@@renemuller7383better than than starting easy and becoming even more easy like old dungeons.

[@renemuller7383]

@@shawnscouten5184 : not really in my opinion. for us essentially hardly anything changes other then the first impression being slightly better and for those casuals who already had a problem with the old expert dungeons ( yes those exists ) in becomes unnessesarily harder to the point that they thing that there is no longer content for them to enjoy.

[@IKIGAIofficial]

When we didnt get an adventure zone in endwalker, we had the eureka/bozja complainers to thank. When we didnt get nearly enough instanced action moments in dawntrail msq, we had the endwalker garlean soldier instance complainers to thank. Now when we get boring and repetitive fights in 8.0, we know who to thank.

[@JustFishtheLalafell]

gosh i was like that lalafell, feeling scared and worried that i am causing problems to the party when i first started the game. i was so afraid to join extremes back then, worried i wont be able to do the content properly. but just like that guy, i learn over and over again. even used my whiteboard to draw mechanics and uses my fridges with those color circle magnets to visualize mechanics. my confidence became better, and now i'm always happy to do savage, ultimates or just jump into help with some friends clearing contents, etc. and yes that was 9 years ago. (gosh, how time flies) till today, i still remember you arthas trying to help us in kefka, and we messed it up. u scolded us for not being ready, but did that stop me from raiding? NO. it tells me, yes. i shld be far more ready, learning it properly. thank you :D it's all about trying, and knowing what to do. and when u wipe or caused a wipe, it happens. and u learn from that experience. how can u prevent it? what are the solutions? etc etc. im not a good player, nor im bad. i just learn and learn to be better and in turn, help others too :D

[@FlippyMcGiantDad]

One phys range I ran in to gave a preemptive warning on the third fight that they were probably going to die based on how they did on the first two. They did. Multiple deaths. I have a feeling they were more focused on chatting, panicking, and apologizing than actually taking the time to look up at Bakuma's glowing arm during a Lariat cast. The telegraphs are all there, and phys range as a whole should have the easiest time actually looking at the screen. If you can't do damage, fine, it's normal mode, there's no real DPS check. Just take the time to look and notice what is happening on screen beyond your own buttons if you are having trouble with enemies attacking. You healers will appreciate that effort in understanding mechanics.

[@ebonyglow2442]

As a tank main, I can watch what the dps do, and I am amazing just how many people can't grasp mechanics after being hit and killed multiple times.

[@coffeebuticed]

I am completely serious when i say most phys ranged players are just so BAD. I do not know what is going on but they will get hit by things that not even the greeding melee are. Its like they arent even paying attention to the game

[@armorparade]

what people like that dont realize is that they're so focused on themselves that they don't pay attention to what's happening onscreen and thats a large part of why they're playing so badly

[@joshuayung5158]

​@@coffeebuticedyeah, MCH is my DPS class of choice (tank main tho) and a fair number of pranged players seem to think that having the movement freedom of a ranged class and no cast times means they can just not bother with telegraph reads and just move out of orange floor markers in the two seconds it takes to resolve. The dancers I've been running into in DT in particular have NOT been beating the allegations.

[@coffeebuticed]

@@joshuayung5158 PF dancers for EW made me super toxic. Mfs just could NOT do mechanics. Foreign concept to them.

[@SaltNip]

>"I'm sick of people saying I'm not trying, I gave it my all!" >Struggling in a dungeon after 6 years of playing the game

[@benlarkin857]

Everyone is at a different level. It is possible they did give it their all, but perhaps they are just going about things the wrong way. Perhaps they have difficulty paying attention to multiple things in parallel or judging sequences. Like I'm okay with most things but those line traces in Everkeep EX are too quick for me. I'm not stupid, I've cleared savage tiers in the past, but certain mechanics involving spatial reasoning are tough for me. It's something I can improve, but I will never be as good as someone who is naturally better at it.

[@katiekaliber]

@@benlarkin857 Giving your all in an mmo is asking the devs to dumb the game down to braindead mode just because you can't be fucked to learn to dodge mechanics and also refuse to queue up in duty finder where people could just carry you? And refuse to take help from people on the forum? And refuse to put up a pf or ask your friends/fc to help you with a dungeon? That's not giving it your all, that's giving up before you even started. These people weren't even talking about extremes but normal raids and one even about a level 94 dungeon. Like cmon, there is a point where it becomes ridiculous and people should work on themselves instead of trying to have the world cater to them while screaming everyone else is being selfish.

[@jaybee4288]

Ah but these people can’t win. If they decide not to play because the game is too hard you laugh and cry about them. But if they struggle and try to learn you cry that they hold you back. The real question is why is there a mostly male hardcore contingent playing a game about picking flowers and playing as bunnies? Of course you’re going to run into casuals.

[@twigsno]

Because it's fun. Now go back to eating your glue.

[@100foodreviews5]

C'mon man, a game obout picking flowers and playing as bunnies? Thats the most disingenuious description of a game ive ever heard. The game's core gameplay is combat against powerful fantasy monsters, but its totally a game for girls to play dress-up... Anyway, not a single soul gets mad at people who suck that acknowledge they suck and actively express a desire to improve. I cant be mad at people who die a ton as long as they learn and improve. Im not mad at the people who decide theyd rather spend their time doing something else than learn how mechanics work in this game. The people I look down on are those who refuse to improve and instead want the game watered down for everyone just to cater to their ineptitude

[@TheDimsh]

I think the problem here is that some people go into dungeons and raids thinking that they have some sort of high level of importance, so much so that the thought of failure makes them unable to calm down and play/learn the game. So immediately upon any type of failure on their part the first thing that pops up in their head as a coping mechanism is that it has to be the game's fault or that the game's difficulty should be lowered because it's too much for them. But explaining that to people in the forum who are clearly socially incapacitated is a waste of time. They jump into this game when irl sucks and I get it, but making *us* suffer because of your own personal shortcomings is quite the narcissistic behavior and they are clearly not all up there. edit: and I agree with Arthars, these people shouldn't be playing this game, again, not only because the game might be "too hard" for them, but also because they are socially incapable of handling interaction with other players. edit2: I also bet you that if you asked this person "hey come on stream and I will play with you and walk through a fight with you and I want to see what you are doing wrong and I will try to help" I am willing to put my entire networth on the line that they will not accept. This is 10000% a social issue, not a skill issue.

[@TheDimsh]

This is a more psychological take and of course I might be wrong, but 9/10 people will just .... simply LEARN THE GAME, so this is not normal behavior by any means.

[@nashj001]

I’m loving the new raid tier looking towards savage

[@JustAGoomy]

as a casual, DT content has made me want to DO more harder content! I've only done one of the new raid tiers so far and I died like 5 times, but you know what? It ruled. These fights are hard but so fun to learn. I'm not the best but man like I said the new DT content is so fun to learn. I dont want things to get easier from here on out! Plus, I also have social anxiety and playing this game has HELPED it immensely in ways I couldn't have thought. Used to be too afraid to even go into daily roulettes but now I regularly put up pfs and help folks with hunt trains and other content. This game is really rewarding if you let yourself LEARN AND GROW!

[@TheWickedWizardOfOz1]

As a healer, I AM SO HAPPY PEOPLE GET HURT NOW

[@SomeOne-vh1rm]

DT has stepped up the difficult on normal for all content so far and I love it, I haven't had this much fun in a while, even EW trials/extremes and dungeons were not really hard, some of the savage raids in EW were deadly which was fun.

[@dumbitc11]

i have my duty finder set to allow me to join instances that have already started and i got put into 3 groups that were currently in the process of abandoning the duty. i was actually so taken aback. when you fail you go again and at least attempt to learn mechanics until the timer runs out! i’ve literally NEVER abandoned a duty in my 4 years of playing

[@SilverNightbane]

I found it to be a very refreshing change that finally, Dawntrail dungeons are actually challenging. It's like the FF14 devs telling us they have faith in our abilities to adapt and overcome the challenges they give us. But sadly, while pressure can turn coal into diamonds, it's probably not for everyone. I just wish they wouldn't drag everyone else along with them because a lot of people may not enjoy the story of Dawntrail (I include myself in that number honestly), but everything else has been really fun. The dungeons, the raid, the Trials, the EX.

[@guiltygamerxrd]

It's true, gameplay wise, I haven't been this excited about the game in ages. I'm a casual, but the new content design makes so even dungeons at least keep you awake. I usually skip out on EX and savage, but the new fights are all just so fun that I want to see how far I can go now. I hope they continue in this direction with the game content. I feel like the dev team is going hard on the gameplay and presentation and they deserve to have that acknowledged.

[@Demmonine]

Tender valley was a humbling experience

[@reiswindy]

I died to the very first mechanic of the first boss. Haven't laughed that much in a while, the whole dungeon was great.

[@twigsno]

Had me regretting maining healer this expac. I rly got sauced.

[@mugen3603]

Hmm, what if we had a practice mode for the raids that you can run with trusts? This practice mode wouldn't complete the duty. It's just there for you to practice mechanics that you struggle with. To actually clear the duty, you'll still have to queue in with other players. Would anyone object to that?

[@SomeoneNr9]

"Abuse of non standard telegraphs" is the funniest shit I ever read. A "non-standard" telegraph is still a telegraph. It works the same way as any other telegraph. You see it, then you see what happens after. After seeing it a few times, you are going to know what is going to happen when you see the telegraph. Basic pattern recognition.

[@ngwoo]

The increased challenge of MSQ content is why I finally stepped into trying extreme. I'm like that character at the start of the vid - slowly and casually playing what I want to play, only cleared EX1 so far. But that first clear was the most fun I've ever had in the game. If MSQ dungeons were as braindead as Endwalker ones I don't think I would have had the confidence to try extreme. I'm super thankful that the game finally challenged me a bit.

[@aaronlefebre5060]

Shadowbringers and Endwalker brought people to the pool, and now Dawntrail is like "Well, you're here now. Time to get in and start swimming!"

[@1cef0ps]

im about as casual as it gets and i think thats *exactly* why i want normal to be more difficult. i dont do ex or savage generally unless i *really* want the rewards they give, but i dont want to roll through normal content either. bozja really had a level of difficulty that i feel is perfect for normal content. i had loads of fun learning mechs and dying in zadnor and there was never a point where it seemed like anyone *wasnt* enjoying themselves. it took me a while but i was really proud of myself for getting the blade title mid-endwalker and later when i cleared diamond weapon as my first ex. i could rant for ages about how much i hate the "its too difficult" crowd getting things ruined constantly lol.

[@Eta_Hoyimi]

There's a fuckin guy on KZbin who clears msq and is missing his hands, does just fine using nothing but his nub and pedals. Folks should feel ashamed of themselves for complaining when dudes forced onto sub-optimal controls arent having issues.

[@terceleto]

The encounters in Dawntrail have been a lot of fun, largely because of the new mechanics and combinations of things resolving. Wipes are an opportunity to learn. We cleared all of the Arcadion fights in one pull except part 3, which took 3. Like you're saying, you just need to learn the fights, and it seems like some people don't want to learn.

[@kennys6288]

It’s not that most of these people can’t learn this content. They don’t WANT to.

[@philllewis8219]

As a pure casual player. I feel like they found a great balance in dungeon difficulty being ramped up a little and keeping it from being completely mindless. The boss mechanics are not insane but you do have to learn them.

[@ramon6783]

Heck, I did the first dungeon recently after not playing FFXIV in a while and I was pleasantly surprised at how it at least felt a tad bit more challenging this time in the boss encounters. The trash pull walks are still kinda nothing burgers though but at least the map design was pretty nice. Hearing also how the Arcadion Normal is apparently harder than P1S? Honestly, I feel this is so good and the ideal Lv.100 experience. People gotta get better at the game, man-- or at least accept to make mistakes so the devs can let their wings soar a bit more. Kinda miffed to hear about them "making Viper's gameplay easier" because of the complainers. I think the current design is cool cus how you press the buttons is like a zigzag manner... like a snake.

[@DreamTransfer]

I'm a pretty new player; I played the game for about three months on the trial and bought the full version close to two weeks ago. I burned through Shadowbringers, loved it. I burned through Endwalker, loved it. I loved learning and having to use my brain to understand "casual" content like the MSQ dungeons/trials. I'm right near the end of Dawntrail now and I've LOVED all of the MSQ duties. The more complex these things are, the more enjoyment I get out of completing them. I don't want to turn my brain off, I want to LEARN when I'm doing new things. I don't understand how people have the mindset of the individual who made this forum post. Do these people want *new* things to be the *same* as everything else? As the level increases, it should reasonably mean the difficulty does as well to test the player more, no? Am I missing something?

[@blueray222]

You can truly feel the entitlement with every post that threatens to quit/uninstall the game, as if we should feel guilty that we've chased them off by not bringing the entire game down to their level. Nothing screams selfishness more than trying to weaponize human empathy to get their way.

[@amethonys2798]

I just don't get it. If you don't want to even play the game why are you even subbed? Just watch the cutscenes on KZbin or something.

[@Sammysnows]

Bozjan exist to train these people that need a baby gloves. It's time to go there. The difficult is just the common mechanics but yoshiP make it more interesting so we don't have to be half asleep or sleep in expert dungeon.

[@khoulwhip]

I’m going to say this, and it's going to sound elitist AF. Some of us casual players actually have brains that function. We are capable of learning fights and getting better at the game; we just don’t put in super hardcore time about it. I agree that casual doesn’t mean brain-dead. Has anyone ever played Chess? Guess what? That actually is a CASUAL GAME! All the rules of Chess fit on one side of a single sheet of paper. There is very little time commitment required of it. Yet, the game takes serious thought, strategy, and effort to be any good at it. Sure, there are the prodigies, but most people have to make an actual effort to learn how to play the game effectively. And, yet, it IS a casual game. Some casuals, like myself, like a challenge. We like having to use our brains and learn things. We like the rush of victory having overcome difficulty. We don’t want stuff to be just handed to us and the effort necessary is to just login; that’s just plain boring. We just don’t want to be required to live in the basement for the rest of our lives to accomplish it. A pick-up and play challenge, but a challenge, nonetheless. Not brain-dead easy. There can be challenges that take more time and effort but with a more unscheduled nature; that is, the challenge can be engaged at one's own pace and whenever one wishes, without forcing commitment to particular hours in the day or particular days in the week. In other words, challenges where the player decides the schedule of engagement, not the game. But, again, this doesn’t mean the challenge is brain-dead easy or lacking in necessary effort; it just means the player is allowed to tackle the challenge as their own personal schedule permits. Maybe the reality for these people complaining FFXIV is too hard is not so much that FFXIV is not the game for them, but that video games, in general, is just not the right activity for them.

[@lunarcycling6686]

This is the second advent of the Axolotl mount forum post. Except... they're not upset about a prize for clearing savage, but the prize for getting through the expac's endgame content overall...

[@blessedloaf6199]

I just reposted that Axolotl rant forum post to my Discord yesterday 😂

[@jaybee4288]

Does seem odd to take a mount that young kids and girls would really want more than others and lock it behind content only done by greasy male incel types though. although I’m assuming y’all like axolotols too seeing how feminine you are. You know they’re bringing axolotls into the sims? They’re the in trend animal right now, seems really weird to lock casuals out of that particular one to cater for grown men who really should have more going on than hardcore raiding as bunny girls riding axolotls in final fantasy 😂

[@fredxu99]

I sincerely hope Yoship and CBU3 maintain their combat design philosophy with DT and ignore these uber casuals' nonsensical complaints. Trusts exist for a reason to help this crowd the trust NPCs (especially Y'shtola) will move and resolve the mechanics as safely as possible, just follow them lol. FF14 community's "toxic positivity" comes precisely from this loud minority that has been hellbent on shoving out all criticism and the game has gotten worse from catering to this lowest common denominator. Finally it's changing.

[@Kagura-Something]

Yoshida just needs to understand that ease of content does not always translate into actual 'accessible' experience. Players can always get better at the game. What I mean by this is they haven't really focused on actual accessibility, game needs much better systems for visually impaired, etc., - as I have seen a lot of players use disability as the reason for easier content, and I think they can offer a better experience without compromising on a natural difficulty curve for normal content. I'm a casual, and I also have friends that've struggled a LOT with this step up in difficulty, but they have got better. Now they rarely die, they're getting better with where they position for certain mechanics.

[@Feonir44]

The game is extremely colourblind unfriendly yeah, the accessibility options need some buffing.

[@khinzaw77]

I just don't understand why some people's response to the barest hint of difficulty isn't "I should improve" and is instead "this game needs to be made easier."

[@FlavorsomeMusic]

Dude is still going on in the thread, it's nearly at 100 pages now, accusing you of hanging him in the public place, and accusing everyone who disagrees with him of being little brainless soldiers sent by you, playing the victim all the way through. Dude dismisses even things like "Keep trying, you'll figure it out!". He wants his way or the highway. What's positive about this is he's keeping the thread alive as more and more people pour in to disagree. Doesn't matter if he's convinced or not, it's loud and clear at this point that people love the new way they are doing things and with the coverage this is having, there's no way cbu3 will not notice. I'm not even willing to say it's harder now that I've gotten used to the content, it feels more dynamic and engaging, not harder.

[@Moecinnako]

That's encouraging Arthars. It's true not everybody have a smooth first time with new content drops. People should play to have fun and keep going again to get better. Just use the trust system to get better. SE implemented tools for you as a player develop along with the game doesn't have to be with other players. DT did a great job on amping up the difficulty by adding NEW mechs that makes it "hard". I love the content how it is. People just need to apply their selves to be better. That's all.

[@Gardelias]

this video and this forum post pushed me into trying out EX trials for the first time since I started playing in ShB, which I've now completed both and farmed out a bit LOL (albeit with guides, I don't think my brain is ready to do these sort of fights completely blind) though savage still scares me a bit, as I know it's a step up from EX and done mostly blind and in statics... regardless, once I got the hang of it I didn't feel like logging in for any other reason than helping new people clear them as well as try to improve my own damage on them and it's been SO much fun :)

[@ItsSirRazzy]

Im a casual player who works 50 hours a week, and Im loving the difficulty of some of the new content. Its engaging enough to the point im actually having to think about whats going on and learn, but also not too intense that I need to be in Discord on comms with randoms. Though I would like to try some of the harder content when i have more time.

[@coloxrme]

I will never understand why people complain about things that are "too hard" for them, and I will never understand why developers try to make it easy for these specific nutjobs. Difficulty serves as a filter, it filters out people who are incompetent. If the game is too hard, go play pokemon.

[@Shinomura25]

That Lalafell is BASED AF! More casual players like them please!

[@BananaMellor]

I am part of a demographic that sometimes gets unfairly targeted with the whole 'participation trophy' rhetoric and I hate it and push back every time. And then I see something like this and have to contend with the fact that there really are people who live that stereotype unironically.

[@kfk4441]

There's always going to be someone who's going to find anything hard, there are people that have a hard time making a fried egg without burning it. There are people that have a hard time staying in their lane when driving. But that doesn't mean the whole world have to change for them, learn to be better, don't strive to stay stuck

[@SalemIarna]

The game has done so much to help casual players. I myself am a casual player who struggles with social aspects of the game due to autism. I played the game since Heavensward. I was so excited when they released Trusts because it gave me a CHOICE to play with npc’s if my anxiety got too high. There are plenty of guides for the trials that you can watch until you remember enough of the mechanics. It’s OKAY if you die. It’s okay if you don’t tank it heal perfectly. No one does it right the first time. If someone yells at you for dying when you don’t know the fight, that’s their problem. If all you want to do is get through the story, it should not be an issue anymore.

[@Ayalis]

Casuals need to understand that although yes they are a majority in the game's community, there's *a lot* of people who enjoy harder content. These raids aren't "difficult", they're new. It will take some time for even experienced players to get fully used to them, be it a long or short amount of time doesn't matter. Their feelings are valid but they can't expect a game studio to dumb down the game further than what EW was, if Devs were falling asleep during EW imagine what would happen if they made it easier this expansion too. Having trouble sleeping? Just open XIV and you'll pass out immediately it's okay.

[@JaquanIV]

tbh i don't think the problem is the causals its the hyper casuals. Non dpsing healers, ypyt tanks, single target only dps players and players who die to quite literally everything. I feel like I get someone like that every other dungeon.

[@vaan_]

yup, casuals as a whole aren't like this, it's just a handful of disturbed people that have a mental breakdown whenever they die in the videogame best to ignore them, and just give positive feedback on the current content

[@mlemlemmlemmlem]

I actually use FFXIV to cure my insomnia as the dungeons are so easy that they put me to sleep 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I let my muscle memory carry me

[@pumpkingamebox]

A week after launch Zodiark and Skyruin are the only trials on which we ran out of time on because everyone sucked so much. But only once for each. I’m surprised at how sometimes I’m paired up with such uncoordinated people. But then again, you don’t have to look far to find those. Mentor roulette, the horror, is filled with them.

[@FinalFrankie]

I’m definitely a casual, and the only “problem” I had with DT fights was the final trial and that green grid on the floor which really disoriented me. I didn’t see the aoe marker the first time and died, got revived and figured it out the next time I saw it. I haven’t tried the raid yet but look forward to it! I just haven’t had time to sit in a DPS queue since the patch dropped. Oh and I also have bad anxiety but you know what helps? Exposing yourself to things that make you anxious (within reason).

[@AZodiacCancer]

One of my friends is in a discord about Elden Ring and a guy was constantly whining and bitching saying Fromsoft doesn't care and Elden Ring should have difficulty options because its too hard and he cant play it. Its unfair. Im sorry but no, mods already exist for that and if the game is too hard, wither git gud or play another game. Yeah that sucks to hwar but bot every game is for everyone, as someone said, a game made for everyone is a game for no one. This is ehat happens when people don't have their modded characters to jerk it too and their xivcombo to press 1 button.

[@kishin101]

I went into all the instanced content in DT 'blind' - I died a LOT, I got frustrated a LOT. I raged at the mechanic overlays a LOT!! I know really, really enjoy the instance content. It forced me to realise that I needed to focus more on my job role, it made me actively learn the fights and now I enjoy the instanced content in DT more than any in the game. You die, you wipe, you learn and you go again.

[@LameMule]

Oh YOU'RE Arthar's Waifu. I was running FATEs the other day and I just thought you had yet another fan which made good enough sense to me - shows me how much I've paid attention to your char's name before lol Anyway, that forum post is insane. Stupid and insane. I am a filthy peasant casual and even I found the content easy. EASY. It's harder, yes but it's not hard. It feels awesome the direction SE is going and I want them to continue. For the first time in a long time, I look forward to repeating the content. It just feels good.

[@ArtharsFF14]

:D ty for noticing me senpai!

[@spencerkovach1986]

I’m not done with MSQ yet (just finished the 99 trial), and as a casual who’s never touched EX because I wanted to catch up with the story in time for Dawntrail I’ve found most boss mechanics to be really engaging. As for not being able to understand a mechanic first try, I was tanking the 95 dungeon and we wiped at least five times because the AST and SMN had a hard time judging where the knockback would take them. They eventually found their sweet spots, the fight was a piece of cake after that and everyone had a good time. It might have been a bit frustrating but having the chance to figure out the flow of a fight and find the right positioning is a lot more rewarding than knowing where to go instantly every time.

[@mrblackjacker32.03]

This difficulty curve is what I've been looking for, even as a lightweight player that barely has a year in the game. I hope that Echoes of Vana'diel kicks our asses back to our houses and kicks us back to the battlefield

[@UrickSan92]

1st time I was watching this thread develop and Man it was a show XD Give that 1 catgirl Sacae the meanest props cuz she was speaking for Eeeeveryone just trying to get better. A lot of the casuals are on the forums, but its time the silent majority, the people who play to improve, to jump in and say we exist, and we appreciate these changes. If not, we may get Casualwalker again

[@holowisewolf1688]

Hi, that's me :) Thanks for the kind words.

[@Dukenstein123]

Having to actually have to use mitigation as a DRK in the leveling dungeons has been a breath of fresh air. It should not have taken this long to actually have to use tank abilities to tank but guess what, it’s actually fun.

[@NotExplicable]

Do you know when you're ilvl goes up dungeons get easier, people don't know how hard most dungeons were back in HW/ARR you can still wipe in Pharos Sirius 1st boss with noobs

[@Tyrbris]

Any dungeon can be a struggle if you get grouped with the wrong people. All it takes is one dogshit tank and/or healer to make any piece of content seem like a challenge.

[@krivdik]

@@Tyrbris One of the reason I started to do roulettes if possible on RDM only, from time to time you just get people who even at max lvl struggle to do anything more than 123 combo, even the healer refuses to res them at that point.

[@NotExplicable]

@@Tyrbris I've tanked mitigate Boss hits on Sage while raising my party that messed up on lv80 mechanics, and have made a DPS tank in a 90 Dungeon because our tank probably had damaged gear or didn't use invuls. The thought of not main healing or tanking controlling pace if my healer can't keep up is not desirable.

[@XAlpt]

@@NotExplicable That's the funny part, support roles are so overpowered in this game at the later levels that one can be substituted for the other, if you have a literal afk tank as a healer that presses their buttons you don't need them and as for tank.. dark knight can go cry in a corner

[@SuperEffector]

The funny thing is the last post at 15:12 is probably the most right of them all. We're 90* levels and 5 expansions in. If you can't play the game well at a CASUAL level after all that then it is a skill issue.

[@Diddz]

They should have a plotwatcher mode for people who dont want to run content and just see the msq With such a mode, the game would place the following restrictions to that player while doing msq with the mode on: >MSQ quest exp is forfieted >Endgame optional dungeons and all its raids will be unaccessable until the player conpletes all base msq duties preceeding it In exchange: The game will allow skipping of all duties, allowing the player to just get the story

[@kpenn100]

dawn trail is reminding me of stormblood story is ok , raids are great

[@RPGmancer]

I feel like we need a term for something beneath casual at this point. Like I consider myself a casual. My friends and I are just now getting around to doing the extremes. I feel there exists and even lower tier casual.

[@iPlayOnSpica]

"Game journalist"

[@MrLilven]

Grass

[@batwingpie]

Understanding a fights mechanics in their entirety the first time you do it is not how it should be imo. I play casually (meaning I don't want to commit to a group for progs because of my ping and timezone differences but I play hours everyday). I really like the more tight mechanics they added, gave me a bit more of a challenge without having to commit to a prog group, once I have run it multiple times I will learn the mechanics and it will feel easier. I don't want to commit to other people at the moment when I play so having fights I will need to do multiple times to understand fully is great!

[@sadmiqoxiv]

One of our fc members refuses to step foot into extreme or savage, we convinced him to do zeromus ex on release and he cleared in 1 pull with no deaths. He is, a casual player. He is not bad at the game, infact I'd say he is better than most savage raiders. But he just chooses to not to play those parts of the game. Casual players are not an issue, the issue lies with people that play an mmo and expect it to be vrchat.

[@HeartabyssKoi]

Honestly the normal raid tier stressed me out a lot and I’m actually scared to queue savage. Don’t change it. I just might not be clearing for once LOL.

[@CWFDSmokeEater]

I'm curious, what part of the new raid tier did you find stressful? I've cleared it all on healer, tank, and dps.

[@Gathoderiz]

Nah go for it, challenge yourself and triumph

[@DaviGri]

@@DawnAfternoon tell u a secret, if you watch closely at the heart bullet coming from the centre, it actually shoots out in either clockwise or anticlockwise, which will make it more predictable to dodge.

[@XAlpt]

@@DawnAfternoon The bigger puddles take around twice the time to detonate aswell compared to smaller ones, depending on the size

[@HeartabyssKoi]

@@CWFDSmokeEater oddly enough I did not have much trouble at all on the 1st and 3rd fight. The 2nd fight and the 4th fight however had a lot of moments where I had to just dodge mechanics and I was getting just barely clipped by stuff even though I appeared to not get touched. FF netcode issue and all. But it was actually exceptionally difficult for me to avoid dodging that stuff even when I believed I was moving well before the telegraphs went off

[@carneliansweetness]

As a casual player maining healer, the content is challenging but clearable. They've move the shortcut closer to the boss so I don't need to do the long walk of shame anymore. Also, in dungeons, the bosses hp are going down faster than previous content. They just hit harder and punish you a little harder. However, in turn I now have stronger heal and shields to compensate. You're really not holding back the team much if you need to sit back for a bit and resolve mechanics. Also, I noticed they granted a lot of piety pieces for healers, more than the previous expansion. I was originally confused about this but after some scuffed ext 1 and ext 2 trials with my regen healers and me draining our hp slowly down to zero, it makes more sense now. I joined this game back in 2021 when asmongold covered the game and used 3 years to get better. I don't think I will ever have the time commitment to do ultimates or schedule organised group content like savage and criterion but playing casually doesn't mean I am not competent with the role I have chosen, I will do my best to support people and have fun :)

[@batwingpie]

The person talking about their anxiety running with other people is being incredibly dishonest. If they have been playing 6 years then they were around long before the trusts/duty support were introduced, and many of the fights have no NPC option still (most didn't until recently). They have run with other players many many times. They have to have in order to get to DT. Complaining you are 'stuck' on a MSQ dungeon is so dishonest. Having anxiety is one thing, but you can't pretend it is a valid reason when you have overcome it all throughout the story to the end point.

[@TheMexRAGE]

There is also a problem of people caring for damage uptime way too much in these parts 3 days on those raids (even when there is no dps check or enrage), they are not dodging mechanics or trying to put themselves at a very high risk instead of retreating or moving to a much reliable and safe place, hell i have seen healers continue to cast dps on the boss instead of healing thru raid wides and stacks

[@whatthe9706]

I'm a casual that has never done a single savage and I've done a handful of extreme trials synced (Nothing in Stormblood or Ew). I think the game should get harder as we progress, I don't want to do braindead easy content. I legit fall asleep while playing lower level content for this reason.

[@moonum4567]

I saw the post. The cat girl who responded to them has the right of it, you are 100 levels in. Its time to git gud or go home

[@bjaltvater]

I love the fact that DT is going to be the villain arc! You have 90 levels to learn and have fun. Take levels from 90-100 and grit your teeth and learn to be better.

[@coolman5242]

Aside from Valigarmanda, Honey Bee, and the first boss in Deadwalk, there wasn't any boss in DT that I felt like was frustratingly hard, almost everything in DT so far just been nonstop fun

[@Masluker]

They claim they like the story, yet have understood none of what it tells.

[@szss_d]

Same people who complained about content being too easy to heal xffing

[@MeltyClaire]

I can personally guarantee you it isn't

[@Heroisback92192]

Hot take but, there are a lot of players that will never know their rotation or understand the need for one. It is because the game does not teach you how to play at all. If you dont seek third party areas of knowledge you will not understand how to play the game. Which isnt always a problem but, they could use to put in an actual way to learn optimal rotations without the balance or spending hours crunching numbers. This is a video game not math class.

[@phiefer3]

They do have something in the game to teach you how to do your rotation. They're called tooltips. And no, I'm not being elitist or anything here. You don't need to learn "optimal rotations" to clear normals, a basic simple rotation will suffice. In fact, beyond just the tooltips the job action menu has a layout that organizes all of your actions and shows you what the combos are and how abilities interact. There's a menu that explains all the stuff related to your job gauges as well. There's plenty of information IN THE GAME to learn how to play, all you have to do is open the menu and read. Will it teach you the best optimal rotation? No, but it'll teach you more than enough to clear normal mode raids. And if someone is not willing to read the in-game sources to learn how to play, then that is not an issue of the game not teaching. That is an issue of the player actively refusing to learn.

[@Heroisback92192]

@@phiefer3 No, it teaches or implies nothing of weaving at all or buff alignment. The tool tips just explain what the move does. I can safely claim my knowledge of how to actually be able to do enough dps in this game for a savage or even extreme fight was not enough to get from the game alone. Normal mode raids are clear able for sure but, they have progressively gotten harder for the casual player. I have been very happy that they are getting more engaged but, if the trend continues it will be much worse next xpac

[@SwRRt3]

I learned about weaving OGCDs from limit testing my job first, and from my friends and community second. I read all my tooltips as a new player. I modified my hotbar to be comfy for me to do my combos in the shiny light up way, and engaged my brain cells to understand that I didn’t want to drop damage buffs or drop DoTs I place on the enemy. I didn’t calculate optimal AOE use- but the numbers are there to do it. All of what I mentioned isn’t even necessary for extreme clears and certainly isn’t for Normal raid clears. The people in balance or salted or wherever resource were not told by the dev’s themselves how to find optimal rotations- they got it from the game, bud.

[@Heroisback92192]

@@SwRRt3 Of course they got it from the game. My point was the average player isn't going to spend that much time to learn it from the game. Which yes, even if it was 45 minutes most people aren't going to do it with out better direction.

[@phiefer3]

​@@Heroisback92192 Why did you start your reply with "no" and then agree with what I said? I specifically said it was more than enough to clear normal raids. The people complaining in the featured thread are also complaining about normal raids. Casual content can be cleared by reading in-game information. If a player is unwilling to do that, then they are CHOOSING not to get better. That is THEIR fault, not the game's. You also seem to have this weird perspective where you seem to think that knowing the optimal rotation makes content easier. It does not. If you are not dying to enrage, then your rotation does not matter. These people are not failing because the game didn't teach them how to weave their ogcds. They are failing because they're not doing mechanics and refusing to learn how to do them. And yes, they are refusing to learn them. This whole thread was about them giving up trying instead of learning how to avoid boss mechanics.

[@Chaptrap]

I think a big thing to keep in mind is people saying "raids" are too difficult and people that say "MSQ" dungeons/trials are too difficult. The raid one i agree, just wait until you get better equipment next patch cycle or whatever. For those with MSQ, it feels bad if you hardstuck because you want to play it solo with NPCs. What many people may not know is, that if you run it with NPCs the fight will automatically reset when the player dies with no way to "revive". This can be quite harsh for casuals that have troubles with fights. A good solution for this could be the way "Solo Duties" handel this. Allow for an "easy" mode (when playing with NPCs so Trust & duty support), and have AoEs deal less damage to you, or you have maybe have 1 additional life before wiping on a boss (i think they have this during trials when you play with NPCs when you die once you hang on by "sheer will"). This way you can keep the same mechanics (when playing solo with NPCs) but it's more manageable for the very beginners and super casuals that would struggle with the normal MSQ difficulty.

[@Shayera01]

I'm the kind of casual who only does MSQ, raids, and alliance raids. That said, I've thoroughly enjoyed the dungeons in DT and look forward to doing the raids. At LEVEL 100, we all should know the following: 1) It's ok to mess up, especially at expansion launch. 2) Expect things to be more difficult, wherher marginally or hugely. 3) Basic telegraphs stay basic, they just come in different patterns and with different visuals sometimes.

[@SirMendez]

Who rememeber when Xeno said "You dont want SE to do things hard"

[@aykan5621]

My problem with that post is that the person who wrote it wants casual content, but he doesn't want to play like casuals. I don't think raids are casual content, and if you want to experience them because of the story, just do the fight one time and that's it. Now, personally I like how I need move a lot in dungeon bosses because dungeons by themselves are so fk boring, but I understand that they could be hard for casual people. Maybe they should add those mechanic in harder dungeon and make the msq ones a bit easier. But add more optional dungeon with the aforementioned mechanics.

[@BriahnAznable]

You can never please everyone. Except me I’m happy and I love Dawntrail so far :P

[@nebula8851]

Haven't done the raids yet, but mechanics as a whole seem to be a lot more 'reactive', and if your reflexes and attention span are bad, you're going to suffer. There's a picture of a successful juggler performing on stage, with several hundred broken items backstage. What makes someone good isn't not failing, it's failing, but still getting back up and continuing.

[@juliuskingsley4400]

I played the lvl 95 dungeon with a machinist who was using single target attacks on big pulls and random aoes on single targets. They then proceeded to die repeatedly to every boss and we ended up redoing the last one about 6 times. I can’t comprehend how you can go from level 1 all the way to 95 and not understand the basics of this game and it’s easiest content

[@FlavorsomeMusic]

From the perspective of someone who played without commitment since ARR and is by all accounts a casual, the argument that dawntrail is too hard is quite hmm, ignorant of the full picture ? Full picture looks more like they took the bar for low commitment content so far down that players like me were left behind, and they are rectifying that. These people act like they're being slighted, but it's actually a step in the right direction to correct how players like me were slighted to accommodate people that want the trophies without participating.