Street Fighter 6 is NOT eating your inputs

[@BigNastyKail]

This from a stream vod here on KZbin or twitch.tv/bignastykail. I stream m-thurs 7pm - 10 pm est. join us!

[@keonggondang989]

I think with all the complaints, Capcom will probably fix it anyway. but identifying the problem that it is not because drive rush eating input is very important

[@BigNastyKail]

I’d be curious to see how they change it. I can’t think of one that feels good.

[@mkooij]

​@@BigNastyKailthey could increase the buffer window if a move gets canceled into DR maybe?

[@vhex61]

They probably won’t. Japanese developers usually don’t cave in to players complaint. They’re patient and stubborn

[@BigNastyKail]

@@vhex61 then they should prepare to bury their game. Tbh.

[@muckdriver]

​@@vhex61that varies alot usually the reasoning is that they're following a set vision so series like souls series see having no difficulty options as an artistic choice. They're definitely more patient but stubbornness is based off what they're doing just like any other dev. Probably why they haven't had live services pop off outside mobile games or MMO's. I doubt "messed up" inputs is necessarily a hard decision for their vision but more a technical compromise for their target. They already tightened the super input window when aki was releasing.

[@Cursed_Fruit]

Bruv this is our mental salvation thank you for putting in this work!!!

[@BigNastyKail]

Always. I want people to enjoy sf6 as much as possible, even if this is frustrating.

[@game_overture]

This is an informative video explaining the bug. Trying to conclude the game "is NOT eating your inputs" is pedantic, it is. This isn't intended gameplay. Capcom needs to apply the inputs during the freeze using the same logic as if the freeze didn't happen. They are a billion dollar company, they can manage this. Saying it's ingrained into the game input system is a copout. This is software, they can implement a special case during DR, but they instead use existing buffer logic because it "mostly works"

[@BigNastyKail]

Actually. It is Intended. I didn’t discover anything. I didn’t figure anything out… I used the logic of the game and tested it and just confirmed it. All the conclusions I came to make absolute sense based on how the system works. My stance is this: it’s logical, but still a pain point to the player. Anyway. They recently made a change increasing the “wake up window” which is unclear if that means “buffer window” so people FEEL like the recent change helped. They also made parry work during the screen freeze so they are making adjustments to the system to alleviate issues. Edit: capcom is a huge company but trust the people who work on street fighter 6 are probably much less than those who work on monster hunter or resident evil.

[@Derzaum]

How to say the game is eating your inputs without saying it eats your inputs. So, we're expected to REACT to the drive rush freeze and delay our commands appropriately? Not possible, by the time the screen freezes, we just ended inputting the command, only solution is mashing , doing it twice but there's no time for that, and that is for DR cancel scenarios. The game literately eats it indeed. How many times, against raw DR, i pressed jump, screen freezes, it doesn't come out and i get hit? same with normal buttons? Sorry but it simply is what it is, broken at the current state

[@ryo-kai8587]

This! My biggest issue with DR screen freeze is jump inputs specifically. So many times I'm expecting to become airborne after the freeze, but I never leave the ground. By far the worst problem, more so than actual attack input. I just tap up to jump to be ready for motion inputs, I don't hold it. By the time I realize during their DR, it's too late.

[@BigNastyKail]

@ryo-kai8587 honestly. I think it’s because drive rush is a jump scare. It’s like “AAAAAAH NEJEMSKWKEWKSKDDKKDDKK” when we should just relax and input our response properly. Honestly…. Modern controls got it easy. I really should try it out. Rofl

[@Yeet-ing]

Having you tried holding the button

[@BigNastyKail]

For what?!

[@Derzaum]

@@Yeet-ing Yes, on training mode. Not a functional solution in real matches though, as we need to be fully expecting it come while also be dealing with an already high mental stack

[@EXDPresso]

Thanks, SF really made me doubt my own execution at times which is usually my strong point. It's kinda counter intuïtive slowing down an input when you see the green stuff but it makes perfect sense. Great video 😊

[@soramercury7074]

can we expect cammy divekick compilations with eliza skin soon? :D

[@deadwhitedragon9751]

The main issue I see with the input buffer is that there's so many times in the game where you have to rely on the buffer, and other times where you actively have to fight it. E.g. wake up reversals would be a 1 frame time window and wouldn't be viable as a wakeup option without the buffer, and it's not intuitive to time something so early with no tell for the timing. On the other hand, sometimes you accidentally input/mash something, and then last second change your input, but you get the thing you buffered. In the end it all comes down to the fact that the game decides for you what gets prioritised over other things for buffered inputs, and it rarely aligns with what the player actually wants to happen.

[@BigNastyKail]

Well said. I agree with you 10000%

[@Chalupakabra]

I think a lot of what people are getting frustrated with is that having to delay inputs, double tap, or hold buffer buttons is that it makes the game feel less responsive and irritating to play. A lot of the problems people are having can be remedied by double tapping the buttons, but I'd just like to have the game feel like I can press the button(s) 1 time after doing my input and have that move be manifested in the game.

[@truerefuge5227]

SF6 does feel like a game that’s constantly trying to get away from you, like it takes one slip up for the 18 wheeler you’re driving to swerve off the road. It’s often not a pleasant experience for a FG.

[@TheOxiongarden]

Feels terrible

[@howdydoodydoo3631]

Can you explain to a newb what you mean by holding buffer button? I’ve heard this before for inputs just idk what it’s referring to And double tapping is encouraged in this game? Kind of shitty but I will try

[@BigNastyKail]

@howdydoodydoo3631 people theorized that when someone tried to drive rush and you wanted to press a button to interrupt the drive rush, it was better to hold the button you pressed. It was silly and unfounded. You don’t need to double tap. In fact double tapping hurts my game so much haha. It’s good and bad.

[@Chalupakabra]

@@BigNastyKail hold buffering is absolutely a thing (I mentioned it in my original reply.) The problem is that hold buffering to try and get special moves to come out (for me) feels super awkward. I just want to hit my button(s) 1 time and not have to do all this extra bs to get my moves to come out correctly, but it's basically impossible with input window getting delayed.

[@requiem418]

(Stated at the end of the video but) The buffer window should be active/extended even during the freeze and during wakeup. Simple solution. Keep the screen freeze, just don't disable the buffer during the screen freeze. I am a programmer and this is something that can easily be implemented unless there's an issue with how it is coded in the engine. (Full disclaimer - there can be other side effects to this in regards to how the game plays but this is a brute force/quick fix solution)

[@BigNastyKail]

It’s not that it disables it. The window opens later that we normally expect. I think it’s too much to expect from the defender. It’s also a balancing act. If it’s too easy to check that’s not fair to the attacker. They’re already investing resources. It’s fascinating.

[@Maximin00]

@@BigNastyKail The solution is still the same though. Whenever the buffer is scanned for inputs, if the buffer abuts a "freeze window", extend the buffer to include the inputs from the freeze window. I can imagine this would be difficult to implement though as the rollback framework is likely completely unaware of the frame freezing mechanics.

[@BigNastyKail]

It DOES include inputs from the freeze window, because it queues up the next input. Now if you're saying to include ALL COMMANDS (which is what I think you're asking for), then that just wouldn't make sense would it? If during hte screen freeze I input 236236k I would get super. That is one command. I cant do 2mk xx drc > 5mp during that screen freeze and expect to get all those inputs. Now if you're saying to include movement like hitting up or back...that would be even worse because what if I was gonna jump on the same exact frame and then I switch to block...it would feel awful to get that jump input because time stopped.

[@Maximin00]

​@@BigNastyKail Oh no, definitely none of those things should be the case. If I'm understanding correctly, your video states the extra delay from the freeze window causes the reversal DP inputs to fall out of the buffer by the time the defender becomes actionable again (falling out of blockstun). Perhaps the punch, the down-forward, and the down are still in the buffer window but if the forward was unintentionally timed such that it is within the freeze window but too early to still be present in the buffer window, the input reader will scan the buffer and register only the punch input since down->down-forward->punch is not recognized as either QCF or DP. If we extend the buffer frames to include any abutting freeze frames, the forward motion is included in the buffer and the entire special move command can be recognized and executed as expected. The manner in which the input reader scans the extended buffer should be no different from how it generally operates: calculating all possible resulting actions on any actionable frame based on the inputs within the buffer and selecting the appropriate one based on priority (supers outweigh specials which outweigh normals). As you say in your comment, only one command can be pulled from the buffer; sequences/combos aren't and should not be bufferable in the sense that multiple moves could be queued up to be executed once the player is actionable. As for movement, you're 100% correct this shouldn't be buffered but this is where your observation toward the end of your video about the buffering of movement comes in. The inputs themselves are buffered to be recognized as part of special input commands but any actual movement that would be implied by buffered inputs is not played out. This is exactly how it already works and is why jump inputs during screen freezes are actually swallowed. I hope that clarifies what I was saying because I think we're in agreement about everything. The only problem I see with this solution is if a player were to input a DP during the screenfreeze but then input another because they have godlike reflexes and recognized the screen freeze. Then both DP inputs would be found in the extended buffer and their inputs would likely be recognized as a Super command. I kinda think that's preferable because the more natural and common scenario is the player inputting one DP motion and waiting expectantly for the move to come out. If there are actually any players out there doubling their inputs to account for the perfect timing as well as the freeze-imposed delayed timing, then they should be able to relax and just input the one. The most important thing is just that both timings should produce the same effect.

[@VoyivodaFTW1]

@@BigNastyKail that's the biggest part of the problem because the delay is actually in a window that's almost not react-able. That's why people think their inputs are being eaten. Adjusting your inputs on the fly in 10 frames doesn't seem reasonable when your opponent is the one dictating when those 10 frames need to be accounted for.

[@steadxman]

No the point is it shouldn’t freeze in general. It’s flawed in my opinion from both sides

[@BigNastyKail]

Why not? Lolol

[@Achiledus]

Random dude on KZbin, for me it’s two problems. It’s not explicitly told to me that this happens especially cause you don’t lab these situations. What is common knowledge is that there’s a gap between button drive rush and the next action. And if there isn’t then nothing comes out. So you’re timing it as an option select. It feels like guessing right and being hit. With wake ups and other inputs the timing feels random. I buffer fireball, stop and try to walk forward button. A super comes out, so you slow down actions but when you feel like you know the speed of things your super doesn’t come out cause it’s too slow. The second thing is that it feels unintentional and random. Not saying it is, but the moments it happens are times when you least want it to or think it could happen. You’ve been waking up all game and not it doesn’t work. You read the drive rush and because of the screen freeze your buffer doesn’t come out. It’s frustrating, and while players have played more difficult games, they weren’t happy with the difficulty then and over coming that made them feel more confident so now it’s a matter of this isn’t hard so why isn’t it working. It’s not hard it’s just a nuisance. Also as someone that uses the wake up timing to eat peoples inputs I can tell 100% when it happens to people. For context, Rashid’s air bound Lvl1 hit in the corner is +5 but it looks like a longer knock down. I meaty with cr.Lp. It’s a really interesting moment to lab waking up but why would you ? Why would you lab waking up in such a specific moment ?

[@FranticFoxBass]

What a great video. Factual, to the point, tackles arguments on both sides.

[@BigNastyKail]

Appreciate that! I always try and be fair.

[@randymartin9040]

Also this is really easy to fix, have a function that runs whenever you're interpreting inputs, that checks for a state, drive rush or not etc, and when drive rush is true, for the duration of the screen freeze (which they know) you can add that time to the max_buffer amount of time where it interprets the result. I think you're right that the screen freeze messes up inputs simply because there's now a delay in time added, so when you input it, it's no longer relevant once the screen unfreezes and the blockstun or w/e wears off. We had freezeframes in SF5, It should be an easy fix. As much as you want to be provocative with this, this is a pretty easy fix imo

[@BigNastyKail]

I’m not being provocative at all. I’m telling everyone how it works, why it works, and giving my opinion. I come off loud because I am loud. I’m pointed because I’m pointed. Now, as my video said… they can’t fix this unless they rework everything. Drive rush and the frame data within the game is interwoven in a way that there is no “easy fix”. Even this fix you’re presenting has ramifications. But yea. (Respectfully) it’s very easy to say “just do this 4head”

[@HouseLyrander]

4:47 So it IS eating the input, just not the way people think it is. It's messing with the input buffer timing rather than outright killing the buffer. Either way, it's an interesting look under the hood.

[@karayi7239]

There is a case where the game will "eat" your input. If you're in your idle state, no block stun and anything, and you input jab>fireball DURING the screen freeze, you'll only get the LAST input which would be the fireball. In this case, I think it's fair to say that your jab has been eaten solely due to screen freeze. The solution is to obviously delay the fireball a bit so it doesn't take priority, but hey, you can git gud while shitting on the system. Also VERY informative and helpful vid, thanks alot.

[@BigNastyKail]

Yea so I cut this part because the video got long and I didn’t think it was that useful. I guess I should have. You can only buffer one action at a time. That’s why. So again…the game is working as intended. It gave you the input, we just input at the wrong time As I said in the video tho, makes sense… feels unfair tho because it’s controlled by the opponent.

[@karayi7239]

@@BigNastyKail it's definitely working as intended but the intended method kinda sucks, I'm not remotely qualified enough to even suggest changes, so imma just learn how it works and run with it. Again, great message!

[@BigNastyKail]

@karayi7239 f champ talked about this specifically but when you look at his inputs he did cmp xx flame before he even connected with the opponents drive rush. Game said “oh you queued up cmp. Gotchu. It feels pretty bad. Happens to me a lot, especially the jump one. But if we can’t talk about the problems we can’t find solutions. And neither of us are game devs. That’s for them to handle. Rofl

[@Vanity0666]

​@@BigNastyKailyou can only buffer one input at a time but each frame is read 3 times for potential inputs and then the interpreter decides what you actually wanted based on an average

[@BigNastyKail]

@Vanity0666 I’m pretty sure it’s not based on average. During the screen flash it would give you fireball.

[@acorn2565]

delayed timing or eaten inputs? to-MAY-to / to-MAH-to. it's semantics, imo. getting my jumps eaten is the worst. remove the raw drive rush screen freeze AND give those frames to the drive rusher's animation (unless the opponent is in hitstun or juggle state & maybe on the ground) the wakeup issue is a problem for me because SF6 won't let us piano/mash since OD > SA/CA. I didn't have nearly as many problems with inputs in SFV

[@BigNastyKail]

If you watched I go over why you can’t remove the freeze and give it to the animation. Combos would break. Frame data would have to be adjusted and the game stops making sense. You didn’t have these to problems in sfv because the screen freezes weren’t 10 frames so you could adjust.

[@acorn2565]

@@BigNastyKail I did watch & I understand your points, but maybe I wasn't clear - I essentially want it removed for the drive rushee only (let the drive rusher stall for those 10 or whatever frames instead of both players)... ...! ! ! EXCEPT ! ! !... ...when Drive Rush follows: - on hit/block (to preserve combos) - on launch (to preserve juggles) - & maybe when opponent is on the ground (to keep oki - though that'll still mess with wakeup reversal timings, so maybe not?). The problems I'm having with SF6 inputs (mostly) aren't drive rush related. I mentioned how we can't piano/mash for SA/CA because we'll get OD - I didn't mention things like: - 2626.P won't give us super like it did in 5 since we need at least 1 diagonal, which, for me, proves inconsistent on hitbox, a device I'm essentially forced to use in 6 since forward~forward inputs are so important (thanks to drive rush) & pad hurts my hands. If only we had a dash macro I could use stick to hit those diagonals - 61236 in SFV = fireball, but in SF6 we get SRK, so we now need to waste extra frames with 641236 - half circles are stricter - etc., this game is just built different Something needs to change. The amount of times I hear pros say "my dp?" or "super?" is insane & I never struggled like this with any other SF game. Now, I didn't play much of SF4, but I played a ton of SF2, the Alphas, SF3, & SFV (to be fair, 3S & SFV are the only installments where I really get sweaty). Maybe I need to tighten up my execution? Or I could just go play the older titles, but this game is so close to great - best looking 3D SF, having EX/OD @ round start is sick & puts the onus on the player to spend it wisely (cool meter management system), & the burnout mechanic is genius. We just need a few tweaks & I'd start here - with inputs & Drive Rush

[@Imbrisea]

This is fascinating. It's crazy that I've heard so many pros talk about eaten inputs but nobody explained how it actually works like this.

[@BigNastyKail]

Gone are the days of the technician. I remember a time where people would test things and find conclusions. :(

[@Demon_Curse]

​@BigNastyKail the good ole SRK days. Now it's whoever has the most clout gets upvoted and those who dissent and post unpopular facts get downvoted.

[@KeshavKrishnan]

@@BigNastyKailyoure keeping it alive, ty for the good work sir

[@azarel7]

This was really educational. Especially about the OD wake up reversals...I couldn't figure out why my reversals were getting stuffed.

[@Fant]

This channel is SO. GOOD. I feel like I'm watching a great teacher that knows how to keep my attention, how to transmit his thoughts and how to show an unbiased view on an existing issue.

[@matiiiiiiiiiiiiidddd]

You won a sub my man. thanks, as soon as i can i will lab this up, just reached plat and still hungering for improvement

[@armandopineiro4022]

It has been shown to delay the inputs not eat them, with this in mind It is in my opinion not fair to expect players to perfectly delay their reactions or not that is definitely a flaw in the game

[@BigNastyKail]

The game time stops completely tho. So yes it delays them but that’s because all time is delayed.

[@armandopineiro4022]

@@BigNastyKail yes exactly, I get why it's there, but the very system it's imo is dumb that it has to do that because you have all these potential timings that can throw you off

[@BigNastyKail]

@armandopineiro4022 it’s my belief there’s no way to actualize inputs during this screeen freeze. It’s how it’s been since forever. I think it’s an issue without a fix.

[@armandopineiro4022]

@@BigNastyKail unfortunately yeah that how it is like you mentioned in the vid of they did play around with it, the game would get messed up. That's what makes it frustrating some times.

[@ellguy1965]

Not true u never had to delay a wake up super before. It does eat ur inputs 100 percent if I wake up lvl 1 with chun and my opponent drive rushes of course I can input lvl 1 again after the missed 1 but by then u loose to jab In ur face. It’s a huge advantage to the drive rusher and not the rushee

[@jobin140]

Here's the problem with Capcom for me, this wouldn't be an issue if they had a feature in training mode to practice this. I get it, you can set it up yourself, but they should be making that easier. They should gamify training more have a mode with all this preset. Mini games in WT should be available at the menu to practice things such as parry. If they did a better job explaining this and the correct buttons to hit, wed have less issues. You may not like the mechanic, but at least itll be easier to understand. I shouldn't have to go to yt to figure this out. My issues with sf is that devs seem to complacent, or careless to fix any of this 1 year in. This why fighting games don't sell. Because most people dont understand them. 30 years and were still figuring this out lol

[@subigirlawd_7307]

What's the difference If it's freeze or not? No freeze can't react, with freeze you won't get your moves.. I agree with people saying if DR and Di gets nerfed or changed a lot of people will get exposed in all ranks..

[@purefire21]

remove DI and most people will drop in rank first week

[@GrayD_Fox]

it’s not eating it, but it is dyslexic because it reads fireball as DP

[@BigNastyKail]

You’re starting with forward then.

[@GrayD_Fox]

@@BigNastyKail my face when that' the actual problem: ☹*bwomp* I get nervous in a fight and my hands do shit they shouldn't. I'm realizing now when I do supers in SF I'm accidentally hitting forward then doing double quarter.

[@SteamMonkeyPlays]

This is pretty eye opening. NGL, I was drinking the koolaid on the 'eatin my frames' dialogue. I appreciate all the effort and testing that went into this. Thank you.

[@cashews5855]

Agree with pretty much everything here. The part from 19:00 onwards is the core of the problem imo. It feels like DR was shoved into the game with brute force. Without freezing the entire game it wouldn't work properly which in my opinion is already the one and only point you need to make for not putting it into the game in the first place. If you removed the freeze you could just make DR itself move your character slower, but that would mean that all the new combo options instantly evaporate because of course DR also freezes your opponent's hitstun animation. This really feels like the idea should've been canned in the concept stage of development because there simply is no way to make it work properly without essentially breaking the game. I don't envy the devs right now. That beeing said, as much as I appreciate the "adapt"-attitude, I don't think this is something you can adapt to. If I was one frame away from my green buffer window but my opponent started a DR last frame I will now not get the input. In this situation I am not and will never be at fault and I will never be able to adapt to that. You would have to create a super convoluted system where the game essentially checks how many frames your opponent just added to your input window by using DR and increasing the tolerance on your input buffer by the same amount. So if I press a button during a DR freeze that my opponent initiated 5 frames ago and at the beginning of the DR freeze my input buffer was 3 frames out from beeing green, maybe I should then still get the input after the freeze ends.

[@vodkagobalsky]

How is the input for DP forward, down forward, forward? They should get rid of the input buffer too. If you’re not hitting your reversals on the exact frame, you don’t deserve that reversal.

[@BigNastyKail]

An acceptable input is f d f. Look at what you wrote. Theres a f, a d, and a f, even if its df it counts. And (respectfully) that’s how you kill a game. The buffer window was super tight at launch and it only frustrated people. Having a reasonable buffer window is normal for ALL games.

[@vodkagobalsky]

@@BigNastyKail That's my whole point. It shouldn't count as a DP because the input should be forward, down, down forward. That's it. I don't see why a game would be killed it it required people to have actual frame perfect inputs instead of giving lenient input buffers. Plenty of games came along before SFV and SF6 that are massively popular that do not have these input buffers. Not only that, without these input buffers, people wouldn't have these made up excuses. They would know they missed their reversals. And the maybe the devs would fix the issue of pianoing buttons registering as EX moves.

[@ThyasMatthias]

I appreciate you and this video is mad helpful understanding what’s going on! I miss reversals all the time. This should help me. One thing I want to say tho is that saying we’re “doing it wrong” or “incorrectly” gets under my skin. I’m down to adapt. But saying I’m doing it wrong bc I wasn’t adjusting my timing for a mechanic that freezes the game is a little frustrating. You said it yourself. It seems more wrong that my opponent should be able to f with my timing by drive rushing in. Sounds like if anything is “wrong” it’s that drive rush messes with timing. I’m not doing it “correctly” by adjusting my timing. Really, I’m adapting to something that is kinda broken. I’m adapting to the bs. I already have to learn all the different knockdown timings of the whole cast to get my wake up reversals right. I’m okay with that. It’s just a lot. But drive rush messing up timing gets me heated. Straight up. And yeah. You’re right in that I haven’t heard anyone explain it quite like you did in this vid. Super helpful. Blame game aside. Great vid. Thank you 🙏🏾

[@raphaelnavarrette8156]

I agree this is what happens 95% of the time. But I’ve seen a handful of replays of streamers that had an overlay that shows stick inputs on screen catching a button press that the game doesn’t even register on the input list. It blinks on the overlay, an nothing at all on the input list. That still has me apprehensive.

[@fromundaman]

Thank you for this. I must have missed the previous video but this one helped a lot. Now that I know why it's happening I can try to fix it.

[@eliholland1365]

I had to make sure i was one of the people that watched the other vid... 😅 I have seen the major complaints about DR inputs and i was like... i coulda sworn I seen a video on that... so now we got two. Gawd bless this man.

[@BigNastyKail]

Appreciate you! Everyone sleep tho

[@eliholland1365]

Two best parts of the vid, paraphrasing: "drive rush sucks except when I'm doing it." "Y'all said getting rid of 1-framers made SFV too easy but are now complaining that the input window for DR is too difficult to hit? I thought y'all were bad. Y'all ain't bad anymore?" Maybe if it trends enough Chensor will cover it on 'It was Tuesday.' Have you made a lot of inflammatory tweets about this?

[@jeast9648]

This is one of the best sf6 videos I've seen so far. This is some serious insight and part of the reason i respect capcom for waiting on patches.

[@cristobalpena72]

The real issue is on jump input. They will be eaten by the oponent's DR. It happens to me when i want to anticipate the DR with a neutral jump and punish on whiff. Another example: if you want to anticipate DR with juri's dive kick, the jump input will be eaten so instead, only a fuha charge will come up and you will be destroyed by a full combo on punish counter :c

[@BigNastyKail]

A few things. Yea the jump input is the most egregious. That happens so much. Literally happened 3 times in a row recently. But with practice we can adjust. 2nd, jumping isn’t a good way to deal with drive rush since they can always reaction special/super. So it’s a habit I would start adjusting on principle.

[@ThePlasticBowl]

So I'm confused, technically it does eat movement just not button presses? Like, you're saying I can't jump during the screen freeze, cause there's been alot of times where I just jumped, nothing else, but my opponent DR'd at the same time and the jump didn't happen. I can accept I'm trash at the game but I don't think I'm so trash that I'm messing up a simple up or up forward input. Like if it's just a jump how am I possibly in one of those invalid windows?

[@BigNastyKail]

What I'm saying is, you cant jump while you're in block stop, you cant jump while you're in hit stop. You cant jump during a super freeze. You cant jump during a cinematic freeze. All these things stop time. In some cases like block and hit stop there is a buffer window for your next action to make execution easier. Movement is not a bufferable action. Its working as intended, but its creating a pain point for the game. Its important we talk about things properly. The game isn't ignoring your inputs, you're inputting at an invalid time. Towards the end I make the point: It's not fair to the defender that my opponent gets to freeze the game whenever they want and the window is so short that I cant adjust.

[@aledantih6524]

This definitely checks out but I think there still is an input eating problem, only thing is its not to do with DR on its own. All my tests in training with DR had the same results as you but in matches I've had just straight up jumps not come out during the oppenents DR. It makes me think it's something to do with the connection quality of some matches mixed with the screen freeze or something but I've even gone out of my way to test it mid match and it doesn't always happen but definitely does from time to time. That's what I'd say needs fixing, not removing the screen freeze that's ridiculous

[@BigNastyKail]

Towards the end I talk about this. Movement like that is not bufferable and cannot be input during buffer windows like drive rush, block or hit stun. So. Yes…it kiiiinda eats the input but that’s how it’s been in every street fighter game and checks out. As I said to, the biggest issue is that drive rush screen freeze is controlled by the opponent so if I jump and you HAPPEN to dr the same frame…unless I’m holding the up or you reinput it…. Rip.

[@aledantih6524]

@@BigNastyKail from my experience I've got the problem even when holding the up input but again I found that it wasn't frequent enough for it to be an issue with just the screen freeze, I think as Capcom improve the net code over time people will see it less and less because it just seems like the reason something like that would be occurring at that frequency. That's just my speculation based on what I experienced tho. Glad you brought it up in the video too!

[@BigNastyKail]

@aledantih6524 if it ever happens again send me the replay code. Twitter/ig/discord, whatever. Same name. Ill take a look at it

[@aledantih6524]

@@BigNastyKail yeah for sure will do man

[@enricofermi]

Right. You can call it eaten, cancelled or whatever you want to if you want to play semantics. Point is you pressed the button and it's not recognized which is a bad gameplay experience.

[@vonvyrus]

Thanks for this man. This is very illuminating. Reveals a lot to what I still need to improve in my growth.

[@LOLcheeseORZ]

I'm definitely going to be adding that reversal parry OS now to my arsenal now. Thanks for the video!

[@darkphoenix8921]

We need more folks like you these days lol

[@olimphus26]

The game also stores some inputs for too long, it does it many times and I go back to the replay and it’s looking up to 11 frames back for an input that wasn’t even part of the especial I was trying to do.

[@BigNastyKail]

So (respectfully), everyone wants the game to stop eating their inputs and it’s because they do it too early. They need to input closer to the buffer window closing. And that’s WITH the inputs being stored for a long time. This would exacerbate the issue. But I agree. It’s a little too long.

[@saaah707]

But you're wrong. Sf6 netcode rolls back your own attacks and so can cause moves to be dropped. SonicSol posted a video of this: his stream overlay acknowledged an input but the game didn't. This was during routine gameplay (he shimmied a throw and his punish button was dropped), NOT during a screen freeze or drive rush.

[@BigNastyKail]

Yes. Online lag exists. I know this. But that’s not the GAME eating your inputs. I never talked about online issues. I saw the clip. Trust I see all the clips about “game are my inputs”. Last night I had an issue like this. Checked the replay vs my recording and yea it was lagging.

[@advcrim77]

Its okay guys, as said youtuber was " preaching" just adapt, guys. Your wake up moves or super moves not coming out cause people are abusing the drive rush input swallow mechanic? Just adapt guys. Not being able to block cause Said game also swallows deffense? Just adapt, its not that difficult.

[@blackprince325]

Thank you i didnt know why the things were happening. Feels good to know the reason now its easier to adjust.

[@michaelmiller7169]

Sonic_Sol has a video where his inputs are being eaten by the game. He does a shimmy, and then presses hard punch to punish (has inputs displayed on screen while he plays) it shows he pressed the button twice, but the game didn't register either one.

[@BigNastyKail]

I saw this. This was one of the two where I went “yea I got nothing”. Now. I had this issue a lot at the start of sf6. I replaced all my buttons, zero issues. Also, automattock posted about an issue and he chalked it up to lag. I can’t account for sonicsol since he actually had the display on. But he should be testing things… but he won’t. There’s an answer and throwing your hands up going “must be the game” isn’t really solving the issue. A point I made was “I expect these world class players to diagnose their issues”. But yea. I saw that, watched the replay… didn’t have an answer.

[@tiredofinternetculture]

The answer is 0 accountabilty. "There is just no way that I have a skill issue" is all I hear from the vast majority of FGC players. People like punk drive me insane.

[@BigNastyKail]

There’s a level of expectation of skill and I think players are passing up on that because of past skills from previous games. That said… it is VERY hard to be consistent in this game. Haha. Too much to check.

[@BigNastyKail]

@jamellcortedano9066 mine?!

[@StaccatoFry]

​@jamellcortedano9066I

[@DaGreatCedji]

​@@BigNastyKailI think he's talking about punkdagod not taking accountability and his voice being annoying.

[@BigNastyKail]

@jamellcortedano9066 haha. I mean mine is as well. Rofl! I was like “how I catch a stray?!”

[@AgentownshipRebelion]

I thought my arcade stick was broke because of how many times I held up when the opponent drive rushed at me an my character just stood there and took a hit.

[@killercore007]

0:17 What if you did something like this, but have the actual dash delayed by a few frames? It would likely reduce the "jump scare" power of it and make checking predictable DR usage more consistent. Though this would only apply to the raw DR, the cancel version would be left unchanged. EDIT: Forgot to add this last time. The issue I think isn't the freeze itself, it's that the freeze tends to kill input buffers when it shouldn't.

[@Builimacen]

My dude you've taught me that I am the fucking issue with the reversal not coming out. Now I understand wtf I was doing wrong and I can get better. Thank you!

[@BigNastyKail]

Drive rush is annoying and it does fuck you up. Fucks me up. But it’s within our power to fix.

[@Builimacen]

@@BigNastyKail The thing that was an eye opening was the frame buffer as you are getting up and when I can press the (modern player) DP to come out. Now I've watched a replay that I was sure it should have came out but the input was in the red and that's why it would never come out even who I was sure it should.

[@ROTINPIECES]

what are you talking about we’ve BEEN needing to react to 16 frame dashes for 6 years of SFV with input delay

[@BigNastyKail]

You didn’t have a cancelable dash that was 16 frames and a 2nd dash to differentiate between, while looking for DI, while looking for jumps, etc… In a vaccum yes, but you also had 3 frame jabs and a lot less volatility

[@CleAnMa]

16:03 no way man, gonna try this out!

[@neumann778]

No way I'm not subscribing after this video. Good stuff!

[@BigNastyKail]

Appreciate that! Glad you liked it!

[@SquidwardProfilePic]

I still find it ridiculous that DR essentially forces you into a mini game. You can’t avoid it with a jump, you have to defend it or check it, both aren’t ideal. I play Jamie and my DR check button is Fierce punch, a multi hit move that lunges forward and is easy to mash so the timing doesn’t get over taken by the freeze. I’ve found that mashing the button is easier than timing it, which feels scrubby but that’s what happens when time slows down for 10 frames.

[@metalgeartrusty]

didnt fchamp say just hold the input? ive been trying it lately, and it might be placebo, but i do feel as if its more consistent (my dps coming out against drush/wakeup dps) ive never done extensive testing, but that might be a route to go down, rather than OSing inputs with followup parry. whatever works, like you said, its on us to adapt and do what works

[@BigNastyKail]

What does holding the input accomplish? I saw that video. It makes no sense. 💀

[@metalgeartrusty]

@@BigNastyKail It FEELS like it comes out when I preemptively commit to holding it. It could be one of 2 things: 1. either holding the input repeats the input in the drush situation (again i guess the way you test that is input early during the freeze and hold the input from there) 2. because im preemptively committing to holding it, im timing it more accurately

[@realchezboi]

it’s actually really good to know why my dps don’t come out during their blockstrings, thanx much

[@akumaosullivan6333]

I agree I don't have that problem with eating inputs, the only problem I have with Dr is that some characters have a faster Dr it goes further quicker than other characters, if it's a universal mechanic it should b the same all across the cast. Great video by the way

[@jcramirez77]

some are definitely faster but if everyone moved as fast as juri, like guile or jp it would throw off balance, characters with slower dr was intentional to balance the character as a whole

[@BigNastyKail]

Yea I’m a fan of universal systems working the same. The issue is that drive rush plays off the normal it’s canceled to. So Juri shk travels further than say Ken slp. Between us… I think some characters start slow and pick up speed. 👀

[@akumaosullivan6333]

@@BigNastyKail yea makes perfect sense but may be try find some middle ground on that one, but I can think of only 1 real thing that they can do to somewhat nerf Dr is make it more costly in combos and raw drive rush, ya know you would have to decide on more damage or burn out. I tries my best every match not go into burn out

[@DayFul]

I think they just need to focus on the outliers and reign them in. In a vacuum I love using Lily's drive rush she has a bunch of useful options but there's nothing that can suffocate people like Juri and Dee Jay can do.

[@PxGRez]

in the case of DR speed, this is a result of the characters normal dash. mostly. Juri's normal dash has always been that good. Guile's normal dash has always been that bad. DR distance changes if you are holding a direction when you DR, The distance will go mostly full screen for any character if you return to neutral when you DR instead of holding literally any direction.

[@Odins_Fist]

Doing the lords work out here. I never had an issue with inputs because I naturally time things to when I get up because that made sense to me. And when I get hit "but was parrying, DP'ing, etc" I knew it was my timing being off. I have a few friends who swear inputs are eaten while I was more on the, "it's your input timing" side so it feels good to be vindicated 😄It def feels bad to have a jump not come out or buffer a backdash while blocking but if that's the game, that's the game. I also wonder if it's more common to make these mistakes on different controllers. I started with stick and switched to box but my friends (who have the issue) all play pad. Once again though, fantastic video and I'll be sharing this with everyone in my play group!

[@TheOxiongarden]

You're talking a lot to say exactly the same thing as "the game eats my inputs". That's exactly one of those cases where you're technically correct but still missed the issue. Explanation : -If the game delays your timing by 10 frames on a move. It might not technically eat your input, but the income is exactly the same. I means that Juri doing cmk, fuha or cmk DR is 2 different timings which is a 10f mixup with 2 different dp timing. -Telling people that they used to do 1f links and should adapt is stupid. During your combo you're in control, it's not a fast move that you have to predict -In neutral when you want to do a jump into a fast dive kick and the opponent pauses the screen by 10f at the same time, there's no way you could have predicted this and delayed by 10f. So you get standing hk and dies. -Missing parry is a totally different subject that has nothing to do with what we're talking about -On a game design perspective it makes no sense. Buffers are especially MADE to ease reversal timing, having a move that delays the action by 10f is an oversight, it messes up the whole reversal concept. -As a developper, here's a way a fixing it : whenever a freeze happens, anything that happens during these prior 10f should be stored in a freeze buffer. After the freeze is over, that screen buffer should be resolved before the traditional buffer. So in our example let's say the Juri did cmk, fuka. If yoi dp the normal buffer makes your dp come out. If she does cmk DR, you input dp during the freeze, you have no control over your character but still did the motion, then the input is stored and played after the freeze. If in neutral you were anticipating a thing and did a premptive button, the input is stored during 10f and played after the flash. And voilà, problem solve and we brought consistency in the timings

[@BigNastyKail]

It's getting tiring explaining this only for people to say "This is how it should work" and then they tell you how it already works rofl. 1) The same people telling me "20 frames is easy to block as an overhead" when telling me SF4 Juri fse was bad are now saying "reacting to a 20 frame green flashing dash where the game freezes for an additional 10 frames is unreasonable". Surely I remember the arguments with the juri players. 2) Friend I agreed that tapping a direction doesn't allow movement during the screen flash. I agreed with you that its frustrating and the fact that you're not in control is why it feels so bad. 3) Missing parry is part of the argument that people are talking about "game ate my inputs" because they think parry is absolute guard. Surely you know about all flack I get about this them going "game ate my inputs, why did this happen" and then I explain it and now I'm the bad guy... 4) Friendly surely you know that capcom has agreed with and adjusted the buffer window to compensate. 5) On a game design perspective they are using fighting game mechanics in different ways. This is why I was able to come up with an answer to the parry bug and then make this video because I have almost a decade and a half of experience with fighting game mechanics. I agree drive rush freeze is a pretty bad idea because it adds a buffer window that you dont control. Surely you know I agree with you on this because you watched the video 6) SURELY my most honorable friend that I would dap up and hug tightly and keep you safe: when you say "it should store the inputs during the freeze buffer" you mean the inputs are buffered...and surely during the video I have explained thats exactly how a buffer window works. S U R E L Y watching a few minutes of this video you understand that is not only how moves are interpreted during the screen freeze 100% without fail and the only thing that cannot be buffered is movement because that would be silly to buffer a 1 pixel walk back during the freeze. This has been the same for all fighting games as long as I have been playing for the 14-15 years and will remain until the end of time. Voila, you just explained how the game works (Respectfully) if people understood how this game worked better they would be more concerned about other issues with the drive rush freeze but no one talks about it properly, nor do they understand how these things work. Then I explain it and people are like "NUH UH!!!!". Its tiring. My 2 videos have been on point and although I'm not the reason capcom has changed things...Im happy to know they addressed the core of the issues twice and both of those changes align with my analysis so I know i'm on the right path. Sorry for the long message. I had a few minutes during editing. I'm being sarcastic a lot in this message, but I do mean it in good fun. I hope you realize we agree on a lot...but I feel like you didn't watch the whole video or just missed what I was saying...respectfully

[@TheOxiongarden]

​@@BigNastyKail Nope I'm not telling you how it's working now. Problem is, often people read things just to respond, they don't read to understand. What I suggest is totally différent from what's implemented. I listened to your video, you're the one not reading what I'm saying. 1- It's a 10f freeze. And it's still not the point. When you create a game you create it for all kind of players. And game design is better when it's consistent. Having to react with 2 different timings on what's essentially two version off a cancel is a terrible idea. The cancel window is the same, the cancel reaction should be the same. Period. That's how you streamline your software. There's no reason to put buffers, qol things, and all the refinements in modern fighting games, to then add a mechanic that messes your timing from a 10f freeze that gives optimal combos and plus frames. That's clearly an oversight, hence why they tried to fix it twice. It's better, but still not perfect. If it was intended they wouldn't even bother. 3- Whatever, not addressing the parry thing. I know that parry is cancelled into block but you need to choose between high and low. Not the point for me but ok... You know what happens to some people ? They buffer a button into DR (mp mk), then the opponent does a DR. The game engine only buffers the last input, so your button gets discarded and you whiff a parry. Thay whiffed parry is a high low 50/50 into punish counter. Now tell me that's a good experience. Go ahead... This the exact OPPOSITE of what a buffer should be. It gives the LATER option in not the first. 4- Not the same thing at ALL you're not getting the point. Capcom made a larger reversal buffer. That does not fix the freeze problem because the freeze is happening before the buffer even kicks in. That's why I suggest a specific buffer for the freeze period, and that buffer is resolved alongside the classic buffer, after the freeze. If you understand the engine as well ad you said, you'd understand that you're mixing things up here. Their fix allows to easier DPs on reversal, after block or wakeups. Problem is the screen freeze occurs before. So having a bigger buffer does not solve this issue anyway. That answer is totally off. What I'm suggesting is not a bigger buffer, what I suggest is a specific freeze buffer. It's not about the size it's about the timing off the inputs allowed into the buffer. Your buffer can be as big as possible, as long as all the freeze inputs are not buffered, the game is in fact "eating your input". See ? Semantics is not helping us here. You're technically not wrong, but at the end of the day, the result for the end user is some inputs not being released. 5- They are using different mechanics yes, and this one should be fine tuned more. Game's good, it just needs fine tuning. I'm also a veteran brother, 38Yo senior software engineer in one of the biggest companies in Europe and been playing video games since forever (even developped one). Still doesn't mean I'm right. Focus on my points and solely on my points. 6- I do not understand what you're saying. I guess it's an ironic tone. Sorry English is my 4th language.But if you want to discuss, say your point in a non condescending manner. I did not get the hugs things etc. Storing movement would be a totally valid option. The freeze is only 10f, whoever inputted a jump, meant to jump. You do not have the time to change your mind. It's not a super freeze. Thinking it as if it what a 2 second freeze is not good. If I wanted to jump dive kick 2 frames ago, I still want to jump dive kick 8 frames later. Not having this jump out and eating a combo is a terrible feeling that you not want your players to have. Being in neutral and buffering a normal into special or normal into DR and only after the later input out and getting killed is a terrible feeling. 10 frames is 1/6th of a second. People want their whole inputs go out when they press them. Whether it's a special, a normal, or a jump, a buffer, a two in one. If a wanted to DP after the MK, let that DP rock after the MK.. Con-sis-ten-cy. And that's why a specific buffer is needed, not a BIGGER buffer, a SPECIFIC buffer. Consider the screen freeze as if it does not exist for the player on the receiving end. If I dp it comes out, if I jump and dive it comes out. Simple. You guys are overthinking the freeze thing. Buffer the whole thing and resolve it 10f later. EVERYTHING will work perfectly In a game design, you can have all the fancy mechanics you want. But if some basics are not there, people will be angry. And not having a button come out, is a big issue as a game developper. That green buffer needs to be implemented. I know how the game works thanks. I also know how software development works. Being doing that since I started working decades ago. Capcom's solutions are better than nothing, it's going in the good direction. But both fixes did not address the issue, because of what I just explained. Not a size issue (pause). But how they handle it was the good thing to do, because you don't want to break the game during the season. That change I suggested is a little bit deeper than their band-aids. So they did the good thing to do. Develop safer fixes to try and mitigate the issue and maybe solve the root case later if possible. That's fine from them, I understand. But the complaints are also very valid. Saying there's no issue is bonkers. NO, this is not a GIT GUD situation. No problem for the long message, I love'em anyway. That's how great minds function and I respect that, I respect all scientists. I don't know you personnaly but keep doing your thing. But still, we disagree. You understood the issue from a technical point but respectfully you're missing the point from a game design

[@treetoptown]

i wish i knew this video existed earlier because people really had me thinkin I WAS BUGGIN

[@witheesoul]

tysm for putting all this work in. i appreciate your content so so much

[@Gleapgoogleplusisgone]

Well you are right. But I don't want you to be right.

[@RushG]

Whilst I hear the points raised nobody should be asking for the screen freeze to be removed, it's the way inputs are managed during this time. Raw Drive rush also pushes the input window back x amount of frames so where you say are jumping and that jump input doesn't register "during those frames", if you are not still holding up during the screen freeze you do not get a jump at all. Yes it's not eaten but the way the interaction feels and plays out feels awful to the defender vs DR. Solution would be that during DR screen freeze the input you enter still registers but occurs after the freeze. This would essentially fix the "situation" (let's not call it an issue) Whilst I agree adapt don't fix, the way this situation plays out doesn't feel well designed and does make it frustrating to play. I believe it's all by design by Capcom. For those of us who are not pro and are not super casual, in the middle, it's a nightmare to play the game this way. Reason for this is reactions and counter plays feel inconsistent and janky. You're better off just doing raw DR yourself, fight fire with fire which IMO ruins the best elements of a SF game; spacing, whiff punishing, footsies

[@BigNastyKail]

Respectfully, again and again people say “yea but inputs should register during the screen freeze”. I feel like this is my fault for not explaining well enough: Inputs DO REGISTER during the screen freeze. But time STOPS. When time RESUMES, your inputs come out. The issue is (as you stated) the buffer window while you’re in block stun gets pushed back. That’s for drive rush cancels. But raw drive rush if you press… it comes out when time resumes. So you’re saying “don’t get rid of the screen freeze but make it so inputs are read”. They are! Your solution is LITERALLY how the game works right now. The issue is when during a drive rush cancel you’re still in block stun so your inputs are invalid (how the game works in all games).

[@RushG]

@@BigNastyKail we must be playing two very different games. The input is not stored and released after the freeze, maybe if you're holding the button it does, maybe you have negative edge on causing this to happen. But on my setup (PC, high refresh rate yada yada), if a button is pressed at a particular time during a raw DR, there is a chance for nothing to happen and I get smacked in my face (no counter hit, no punish counter notification). There's been times where I'm literally pressing up to neutral jump, and I anticipate my jump to happen (so naturally I would not hold back to block whilst in the air), however there's no jump and I'm not blocking, taking a fist to the face

[@BigNastyKail]

@@RushG jumping isn’t bufferable as stated in the video. Same with moving back and forth or ducking. You cannot queue those actions up. Screen freeze? Gotta have been inputting on the first frame available like any modern street fighter (unless canceling from a move like Juri FSE chp). Any time where a button is not input during drive rush happened during a cancel trying to check a drive rush BEFORE the screen freeze. So cmk xx qcb mk to check an incoming dr. Drive rush goes out same frame as cmk, I input qcb, screen freeze. Game goes “oh you wanted to queue qcb? Gotcha” and cmk doesn’t happen. Can’t queue 2 inputs so it gives me the last. Cmk never happens. Again… same as any other game. The biggest issue is how sudden, short, and uncontrollable the screen freeze is. All my solutions make sense… but you don’t control when that 10 frame freeze is gonna happen.

[@RushG]

@@BigNastyKail I am not talking about DRC the main culprit here is raw DR, I can't see why a jump is not buffer able. A single jump input (up) should function in the exact same way a normal does, you can press both for 1 single frame and the start up begins. My experience is all to do with a single input, not button into buffer, not multiple buttons. I "feel" the 10f of screen freeze occuring during button pressing in neutral leading to nothing happening because of the timing of my press. Nothing to do with trying to check it, nothing to do with pressing before the raw DR. But it's difficult for us to discuss as you're saying this doesn't happen for you and the input is queued, releaseing after the raw DR

[@truerefuge5227]

I'm with you on the "middle" group crowd ("enthusiast"?) thing. SF6 in Masters feels viscerally unsatisfying, and some elements of what make it feel that way get more and more calcified as one moves up the immense skill gaps in Master/tourney performance. I think Capcom's made a game that's very easy to burn out on and hard to suffer through plateaus unless you are either freakishly in love with the game's uniqueness, play it for money, or don't care at all.

[@pablo.G28]

Nice video... I mostly agree. Also I wanted you to mention that parry input cannot be registered in some extremely tight strings including drive rush. It'd be great if you could make a video giving your opinion on Mike Ross Lilly grab inputs after jumping, that was a phenomenon the world needs to figure out too.😂

[@BigNastyKail]

Do you mean jump canceled command grabs? Parry can always be entered as long as there is 1 frame of a gap. Example. Cmk drc Lp for most characters doesn’t have a gap big enough. That makes sense.

[@pablo.G28]

@@BigNastyKail kzbin.infoUgkxdS84T73ptRj0CuXXfWpx7yW-tc5jXOMR?si=B58JvuYcEWGI4geu

[@pablo.G28]

@@BigNastyKail I clipped it from sonic sols channel. Share your thoughts.

[@BigNastyKail]

I thought it was a different clip, so I deleted my comment. You know...Can i say something mean? I kind of expect these 2 to decipher this situation and come up with a hypothesis. 2 things stick out. 1 they cross over the opponent (so inputs get reversed..forward is now back/etc) and 360 doesn't need to actually be a 360.

[@pablo.G28]

@@BigNastyKail if I can figure this out and find some absurd way to abuse command grab without doing the proper inputs, I'm going to abuse it til Capcom takes it out 🤣

[@LOLcheeseORZ]

One of the biggest problems of the FGC today is that some players won't even consider the possibility that they messed up and won't take accountabilty for it. I don't care if they are the best players in the world, they need to get off their high horse.

[@tiguilherman_plays]

Doesnt change the fact it feels like shit and makes gameplay super inconsistent. Is the code working as written? Sure. But is the game being played as intended by design? I doubt it. Who the f. would design something like this and think it would be well received by players?

[@BigNastyKail]

How it feels wasn’t my point. (Walk with me). My point was when we talk about inputs getting eaten, it’s important feedback to state the issues correctly. The game doesn’t invalidate your inputs when you do them as long as the windows open. But they diagnosed the issue and increased the window. That was the issue, NOT “my inputs were just ignored”. That’s important. Now. I said in my videos “I know it feels bad”, but my big issue was the blowback I got from my first video explaining why a different bug worked and how they could fix it. (They did). Everyone instead of taking the information gave me shit for just making the video while there was a lot of misinformation on things. Rather than test and figure it out, they rather just complain. Simultaneously people kept saying “sf6 too easy sf6 too easy”. So we have two sides. “Game eats my inputs” and “this game is easy” when the answer was “I have to be more precise with my inputs” and “omg that’s too hard”. So this video tackled two issues. Why inputs work the way they do and the hypocrisy of the players. Trust. As a Juri player that has no anti fireball moves my options are to jump, or parry and drive rush fucks with them both rofl.

[@Traverswoodward1]

Am I crazy or would an increase in the input buffer during the drive rush freeze frame fix the issue entirely

[@BigNastyKail]

They did exactly this in a recent patch.

[@harry_hydrogen]

Why is there a pattern of modern fighting games dissuading empty buffers. If I know my OPnis going to cr.mk ont DR and i am buffering a super on every blocked DR why should I be punished when I am right, by a delayed window with no compensation?

[@Theheartless99]

Awesome vid! I been trying to tel people if the execution is there the moves will come out

[@javianbrown8627]

The main issue comes into play when I train the execution and then even I get online the introduction of lag and inconsistencies has these weird input instances get worse and honestly that's frustrating. Some systems just work better offline

[@vmichial]

I'm someone that doesn't lab in practice for hours. I call myself a battle labber, someone who tries new things in matches and just gets blown up for it. So i have a very terrible win percentage. Over time I've been noticing I'venaturally been trying to delay my inputs more frequently. This adaptation to drive rush timing reminds me of trying to get the delay throw tech timing down. Trying to throw at the back of the active frames instead of the front. Thinking about it this way has helped me a ton and i have more moments that "feel" like old street fighter reversals. I think you're completely right about a year from now we'll just be used to the timing. You can really see how stuck in our ways we all are. I'm still trash tho.

[@Mrkrillis]

Yeah I’m gonna sub after this video

[@BigNastyKail]

I really appreciate that homie. Talking about the game is very fun to me. Glad you liked it

[@CVE]

The issue here is that your tests & results are not done in live online matches. Your tests shown in this video are being done in an offline setting and in training mode which are both sandboxed and controlled testing environments which are not influenced by lag, server issues or an opponent’s connection type like Wifi. I am yet to see anyone say that the game eats their inputs in training mode it’s always when they’re playing online so testing an online issue in an offline setting will not yield accurate results. If DR delays inputs by roughly 10 frames, then lag or an opponent’s connection type can cause further issues with inputs and moves coming out and this is what I believe people may be meaning by “The game ate my inputs!” Strictly speaking about online and my own experiences here… I have had either lag, server connection or an opponents connection type (and perhaps a mixture of two or more) cause delays to spectating matches, match start times & in-between round load times, win cutscenes from starting up and more so if those types of things can affect the organisation of how the game generally runs then those types of things can affect a player’s inputs, regardless if they call it eating my inputs or not. The issue here is not to argue over what the issue is called but for us to accurately diagnose the problem, test it, and then send our results to Capcom and/or to help players in the community by making them aware of how they can get around or stop these types of issues that they are experiencing from happening. For your tests and results to be truly accurate here I would suggest you do all these tests in a series of online matches (perhaps 25-50 minimum) where there is no ‘action timer’ for things to help you from training mode, with your audience present so they can witness your efforts and give any feedback concerning what they notice and to help with testing0-to see if you get the same results you have found in this video.

[@BigNastyKail]

Dawg.

[@fpagliarde]

This man deserves more than your like and subscribe. Everyone standup and Clap your hand in front of the computer. 👏

[@sheikhu1039]

Driverush without screen freeze looks scary AF😂, but to be fair people were checking 15 frame dashes like Ken's in SFV, although in this game where mental stack is insane it would be impossible to check it while looking for other things

[@olimphus26]

Effectively, you are proving that the screen freeze “screws up my timing” meaning, basically eating your input. Bruh… Edit: “you input at a time where your input was invalid.” Again, the screen freeze ate your input.

[@Wulf_YT]

Brian F better make a vid about this

[@BigNastyKail]

I wonder what his views are. No one ever really agrees with me I feel gaslit. Haha

[@Wulf_YT]

@@BigNastyKail I'll try my best to let others know its a skill issue, I genuinly never felt like my inputs were eaten, like it seemed way too logical

[@fifonefifty]

However there is another issue that I have seen when input’s disappear. I think it happens on console when the frame rate dips

[@Nocturnehell]

Preach it brother. I never once actually felt like it was eating inputs. At least not to the magnitude people assumed.

[@saintvallen123]

Can't they just let move input be buffered during this time? And if you input one move which buffers, but you get to input a different just in time the later will come out. But thank you for this video, this is really helpful for why I've missed inputs!

[@BigNastyKail]

Time FREEZES during this time so literally no frames are processed during the screen feeeze BUT they are queues up to come out as early as possible. The issue is the inputs are being put in BEFORE the buffer window and while you’re still in block/hit stun. So no, Inputs can’t be processed during this time.

[@saintvallen123]

Yeah this is clear - I meant to say that they could give a little extra increase in that window so it would fit better with peoples timing or at least be a bit more forgiving (I believe this is also the fix you mentioned from chat in the video). When I started playing sf6 I already found the timing window setting first day and started to play with it to understand when I can input. I never felt it was as bad as people make it sound, but watching this video makes me much more aware and intentional with my inputs. @@BigNastyKail

[@nomaschalupas2453]

the only thing is that it seems to happen way more often with juri. barely miss a flash kick againts other characters but with juri, its almost 50/50 if i get my move on time.

[@soramercury7074]

really only juri? not with Dee Jay too?

[@RooK_X8]

4:17 "The game freezes for a few frames, and as the game is frozen, it screws up my timing." 4:47 "What you're doing is that you're inputting things early, but it's within the same timing that you expect to be in the window." The fact that you can delay the input and then get the move to work is technically correct, but beside the point. The freeze from the Drive Rush makes the "usual timing" for a reversal "invalid" (as you put it). Translation: "Drive Rush eats your inputs." Or, "the usual timing is invalidated because of the system mechanic." However you want to look at it, it's a problem, period. This whole argument is semantics, because the video actually demonstrates and explains in detail that Drive Rush eats inputs, and how it happens... but then says it's not happening because you can account for it. Not convinced.

[@khdo12346]

18:30 What is that "most of the time" about? Are there moments where the game does eat inputs?

[@zerumsiru5204]

The drive rush input stuff never bothered me, it's that I've actively had inputs not work at all from standing neutral and not in blockstun. I've tried multiple controllers, screwing with the settings, testing my timings, I just don't know why it's happening, but it is. Is there a chance the game might not read certain inputs (not eating it, just not getting the information?)

[@BigNastyKail]

I have never seen that. Can you replicate it in some way and share it?

[@zerumsiru5204]

@@BigNastyKail Just noticed the reply, I'll try to replicate and record it when I have some time to.

[@BigNastyKail]

@@zerumsiru5204 @bignastykail on Twitter or discord. Hit me up!

[@zerumsiru5204]

@@BigNastyKail been trying to recreate it, but haven't been able to. Either it was in my head or it was fixed already. My only issue now is some inputs reading as DP instead of fireball and vise versa but I think that's due to me holding certain directions/motions too long.

[@fifonefifty]

Yooo this blew mind thank you for this video

[@michelpetrus]

Valuable information here. Thank you.

[@YoshiSenpaiii]

You know I was in your stream when you did this and I told someone the other day pretty much a short version of what you were saying and they told me I didn’t know anything about the game because of my rank lmfao

[@hanpanBR]

Wow... so this is why I find it WAY more difficult to wake up dp on drive rushes... Isn't "adding 10+ frame buffer" possible when game freezes (for DR)? Edit: I WILL SURELY start doing the "DP into Parry" to try take less hits, hahahahaha

[@karanpatel8996]

Nice video but what's the issue with larger buffer window making the game easier? Good players will still make better decisions anyways. It's just that new players will start playing the game as it should be played a lot earlier. And this is the direction that capcom wanted to go with anyways with modern controls.

[@BigNastyKail]

I just meant the hypocrisy of people. “I want the game to be skillful. The buffer windows are too small”. “Okay let’s shrink the window down”. “Omg why are my inputs dropping!!? Game broke!!!!” Likewise people complain that the game has too big of a window where your inputs are stored. So which is it??

[@felipeborges830]

You got it wrong! Its not about taking away the startup frames, it's about removing the entire screeen freeze and then letting this same amount of frame that had in the screeen freeze (you saing about 10f) only for the startup of the character doing Drive Rush... Kinda like GG Strive does for air dashes. and preferebly with another visual clue, like the ink effect + glowin the character.

[@ObeyaCorpsArmory]

what they could do is make the screen freeze even longer then make it change color as it gets closer to the window that you can reversal.

[@bustinmayo6595]

It literally eats your jump inputs tho. Like, factually, tested, if you press up during the screen freeze you are going to sit there and take a hit. My complaint was never it eating attacks, its jumps. I've had this happen several times and it drives me nuts. I want to do a jump in neutral, they happen to DR there, and boom.

[@djbowlz2128]

I can't check DJ with the screen freeze lol. I agree tho. DR should be checkable IF you are looking for it. Just like DI

[@BigNastyKail]

It should be checkable but it shouldn’t be weak. That’s why the screen freeze is a clever middle ground, just with some severe ramifications

[@kodaiyoung]

You wanna use it on neutral? The defender must be able to ckeck it properly. Use it as a combo extender only, if you don't wanna be checked. It's already bad enough that it's a universal mechanic where some chars get the short end of the stick while others basicaly goes god mode for a second.

[@raphaelnavarrette8156]

Why remove the freeze and add the 10 frames to 1-bar/neutral drive rushes and keep the freeze on drive rush cancels? Doesn’t that solve most problems? It makes neutral Yolo DR the same/weaker, makes DR Oki less oppressive (that could take a ton of adjustment on gameplays tho) and doesn’t mess up combos.

[@PxGRez]

He explained, that wouldnt be an overall fix - that would ruin combos. You cant just add it to neutral DR - because a lot of combos use neutral/1 bar dr. The reason DR combos work is because of the freeze. Youd be also adding 10 frames to the combo

[@raphaelnavarrette8156]

@@PxGRez that’s true, but then you can just keep the freeze if the opponent is blockstun or hitstun and do the 10 frames in neutral DR maybe. It keeps the cancels and raw DE combos working, doesn’t make DR pressure any different for good or bad, and makes raw DR weaker. IDK I’m not paid for this but it seems like some variation of this idea can work.

[@LeeZard27]

I've learned to counter DR without understanding how. It comes out now almost on demand. What I don't like is the lack of options for defenders in the corner. It's sickening sometimes, but I'm gonna try to find ways.

[@chibuikeodibeli2232]

most characters can get a lot of damage when they check a drive rush

[@EeleyeDD]

Ok but like, you do see how the drive rush putting a 10 frame freeze on what it reads as an input is still just the game eating your inputs, right? End of the day, the timing of your own inputs is being screwed up by drive rush freeze frames that your opponent has control over, causing a move to not come out that you intended to execute. It's effectively the same shit.

[@BigNastyKail]

I'm so tired. I'm very...very tired. As if I made two videos on this, spent countless hours testing this...making the video..editing it...delivering it...responding to youtube comments (who didn't watch the whole thing, respectfully...dunno if you did or not), seeing countless twitter posts about it and when I explain it they go "NUH UH!". Imma be real...im one of the most knowledgable people on this topic... And I still get comments like "dont you see its still eating your inputs technically?!". No. If you input correctly, the move comes out. Thats a player issue. Be better. Stop inputting stuff with Street Fighter V timing. Especially on 1/20/2024 when they've made adjustments to the buffer window to alleviate this. No one is complaining about this anymore. But even if this was still a problem, I tell you how to fix it. Does it suck, yes...but over time I got better at it and it was less of a problem. I get its frustrating, but practice it, you'll be better off for it (its no longer a problem). But whats tiring is just: "Dont you see?!?!?!?!" take. Of course I see, I see it from all angles, and I still have this take. If you input correctly, the game doesn't eat your inputs. Except jumps, cant tap it. That shit sucks...but follows logic for all fighting games and that will probably never be adjusted.

[@EeleyeDD]

@@BigNastyKail the point is that fact that a 10 frame lock out on your inputs going thru is a problem that doesn't need to exist. You cant just say 'get better' and then in the same video go 'ok jump inputs do get eaten'. The input is still being eaten in SPITE of the buffer being able to get around it with better timing, and saying it isn't is disingenuous. And the solution is simple, just make it so that drive rush slows time on activation rather than stops it like Xrd and GGST does. That way it can read your inputs like normal instead of just not for a blink. The activation of drive rush shouldn't be considered a mid screen hit stop as far as input recognition is concerned. And I generally don't have a problem with it skill wise, I still win most of the time at the end of the day. But I don't like how it feels. I hated MvCi active switch for the same reason. It just don't feel good.

[@BigNastyKail]

@SerenDDT jump inputs are not bufferable. Should I be able to tap up while in block stun and get a jump when I’m recovered? Should I r able to tap back and get a 1frame back input out of block stun? It’s not disingenuous. This is the nature of fighting games. In the videos I make I specifically take the stance of “you can’t give your opponent a screen freeze that’s so short, that’s just not reactable and fair to the player”. We’re on the same side on this. But the game is working as intended. It has to be a screen freeze or else combos stop working as intended. Comparing GG and Sf… they function completely differently. I feel your responses are unfair because you make it seem like I’m standing up for the drive rush freeze. I’m not. I’m saying (in this video) there is no time where you input a command during a proper buffer window and it doesn’t come out (movement aside, that’s not a bufferable command). That’s not a thing.

[@spooky4223]

I thought that if you throw a normal into DR cancel you gain frames? So even though your saying you have a window to counter wouldnt you still lose that trade since shes gained frame advantage? Edit: ultimately I this is an issue of of language/perspective; people are saying things in different ways. Most people are saying they input a move to stop an DR pressure and because they cant stop it they say theyre input are being eaten. While it seems your saying that there inputs aren't being eaten just the window to counter is reduced due to DR. Ima be honest I think your observation is more correct, I think it aligns more with the topic of frame advantage. It would also explain why the farther away my opponent is the easier it is to stop DR pressure, ive assumed based on what ive heard and seen that DR cancels give your opponent frame advantage regardless if there minus, so your at a disadvantage when it comes to using a ex move to counter; better to go for a parry, or drive reversal or wait for the next block string to end. Distance seems to be the biggest factor in my opinion and if you pair that with subpar connection quality things appear worse.

[@touchao]

Hey, I'm a plat noob but I'll ask this : In the case of a drive rush, what are the consequences of presenting a 'fix' that extends the input bar's threshold by an amount of orange frames equal to the amount of freeze frames of a drive rush? What I mean is that if the move would've come out on time without the freeze, it still comes out when the input bar turns green. Edit: I just got to the point of the video where someone suggested it 21:30 :P

[@KAMAKAZE_ZC]

Now that I know it was my fault I can start getting better. I just thought the game was eating inputs and thats the way it was going to be forever. I just have to get good now. Thanks for this explanation. 👍

[@giggasmirnoff]

Fighting game inputs that have u gliding all over ur dpad are outdated. Them mugs do not register

[@axelfuryofficial8459]

I react when I see I see movement, as I do in my real fights, butnif there is a freeze of any sort it will absolutely mess up your timing becaus it is not supposed to be like that according to how human reflexes work. I do not input incorrectly, it is the concept of messing up the natural human timing that is wrong: the fact that Capcom intended this, does not mean that they did the best thing. Adding to this Dee Jay and Jury have an OP drive rush. The screen freeze is real, but just not let these character basically teleport in your face, and we are fine. No I do not habe to adapt to an unnatural thing, it is the messed up thing that needs to be fixed.

[@VoyivodaFTW1]

They gave us option selects stealthily and people are mad about it.

[@bamboogamingtvsnap]

Wow youre so well spoken 👏

[@BigNastyKail]

I have a stutter, do I cut out a lot of the really bad impediments. 💪. Still. That means a lot to me as a person who has fluency issues. Haha

[@bamboogamingtvsnap]

Still got my sub ❤ hope this video reaches the masses