The Controversial Genius of the Mangler in Halo Infinite

[@AscendHyperion]

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[@dr.steelworth5775]

I personally love having the halo version of a Bolt gun.

[@braydoxastora5584]

i just hate the design. but it also makes sense that brutes would be the ones to make this

[@jestr8958]

People seem to forget that it's still possible to whiff shots with this thing and can be easily be punished by the faster fire rate sidekick if the enemy player knows to spam shots close range. the mangler still needs precision and with no strafe inertia like other games, it can be tricky for some players. i like the mangler. it's fun.

[@TheGirthwormJim]

This is why you have some people saying its OP and some saying it's not.. if you have decent aim and know how to use it, you let the bullet magnetism do the rest of the work and abuse the shit out of it. If you don't you miss shots and wonder what all the hype is about lol. This is why the best solution is to just make it a tier 2 power weapon in ranked and leave it as be in casual. That would have 0 affect on the casual player's game. If anyone is lower rank and looking to climb, hop into training mode and learn to use the mangler and abuse the hell out of it. You will win a lot more gunfights and be able to translate that enemy down time to the objective to win more games.

[@Windjammer19]

This. The slaps (literally) in CQC but at range, assuming you aren't perfect, it gets out shot by a lot of guns.

[@senecauk8363]

Apologies, but what is strafe inertia?

[@jestr8958]

@@senecauk8363 it's probably the incorrect name but in the classic Halo games, when you strafed you didn't immediately move. You subtly built up to top speed. In Halo Infinite, it seems like you're at top walking speed almost instantaneously, which is why constant back and forth strafe in Infinite is the difference between who wins a 1v1 gunfight

[@TheGirthwormJim]

@@Windjammer19 it's sweet spot is close to mid range. It gets trickier at longer ranges, but once you get its firing down a 2 tap + drop weapon and headshot is nearly unstoppable.

[@cocotheix2664]

If it gets nerfed stats wise it will result in the same thing that happend to the commando and ravager. Changing the spawn time and what not is fine by me!

[@Cheezmonka]

It depends on which stats are nerfed. Nerfing damage is rarely a good thing, but a tiny change to fire rate is a great way to balance a gun in most shooters.

[@connorcampbell5274]

This is halo. There's only supposed to be one useful weapon in the sandbox, and it's the BR. /s

[@dominicscarlato326]

What if they just made the aim assist lower at close quarters? Making it take more skill to aim with up close. Just a thot.

[@satvikvinod882]

@@dominicscarlato326 that'll Nerf just the console players

[@scorpiowarrior7841]

@@connorcampbell5274 So. Let's just nerf all weapons into the ground and buff the BR into the stratsosphere instead of having a diverse and intresting weapon sandbox.

[@wojurera3131]

It's such a beast weapon, it's also interesting when people on the other team aren't using it much, because as soon as I get into a groove, I can Dominate with it!

[@hiwrenhere]

Bruh you're literally the guy I talked about on the enemy team in my comment 😂 You've probably killed me with it quite a few times 😂😂😂

[@jacksonrelaxin3425]

People just don’t want nice things

[@c.k.a286]

I dont use it because the groove is almost impossible to acquire

[@chef4025]

Yea you dominate because it's a really fucking good gun

[@jacksonrelaxin3425]

@@chef4025 all the guns are good. I’ve recently discovered how good the commando is. I hated it at first but when you master it you can early take down a Mangler.

[@tango6793]

They should make it it's own "Hand Cannon" class weapon rather than have it spawn with the shotguns or pistols, and move it to a red weapon rack. I really hope they don't nerf it, its such a fun weapon to use

[@phil_postcrisis]

If they make a new "Hand Cannon" class, I'd love to see the OG Magnum in that class too

[@orielsy]

Single shot + melee = kill. A bit too quick. IMHO.

[@tostie3110]

@@orielsy I don't agree. But too many weapons have that quirk. I don't like bleedthrough alltogether

[@gavo7911]

@@orielsy The Bulldog, Heatwave, and Hydra can do that too.

[@andrewa7614]

Yeah I really wish they would’ve just made it a hand cannon with a blade, instead of slugs

[@sage_thunderleaf487]

Serious answer to the viewer question, I think that putting the Mangler in the teir two weapon racks would be a good compromise between both parties. My meme answer is that we should have ranked pvp have all mangler starts instead of all br starts. I'd love to see the chaos that solution would cause

[@sam_overthinks9931]

The nightmare vision i got from that, convinces me that it would be rad as all hell

[@GTAVictor9128]

What truly makes it OP is it's 1 bodyshot+melee kill combo, as it's almost instantaneous between firing and meleeing. The best way to balance it would thus be to introduce a small delay before you can melee after firing a shot to give the other player a chance of fighting back at close range. As for the regular shots, I think the damage is fine as it is.

[@lammyjammer6670]

@@GTAVictor9128 You can one shot and melee with almost any weapon in this game. I do it all the time with the assault rifle and even the sidekick.

[@scorpiowarrior7841]

LOL YES.

[@iancrowley420]

also make everyone spawn with infinite grappleshot and spike grenades

[@alexfrost2799]

The Mangler seems to combine the aspects of the CE Magnum and Halo 3 Mauler into one. Not only is it capable of one-tapping into melee, but it can also three-shot a Spartan at range. When people complain about having the Sidekick and not the Magnum from CE, Reach, or 5 as well as the Mauler that hasn't been seen since 3, _this_ is where those weapons disappeared to

[@archangel4868]

and it is honestly for the better. making this... weapon (reffering to ce magnum and mangler) a commodity rather than a loadout weapon is really good for the game and balance. though i think it may just be too common in campaign.

[@ChezzyKnytt]

I think the CE magnum disappeared into the Battle Rifle in Halo 2 and basically stayed there. The Mangler gets a lot of comparisons to the CE magnum and I think they really only apply thematically, whereas the Battle Rifle is actually a hitscan, scoped weapon given at spawn (in ranked) with similar time to kill as the magnum.

[@zachedelic1293]

yea it is pretty much the mauler bt the brutes have grown and upgraded it to this god weapon over the years

[@ultramario4309]

The mangler is a lot of fun to use and is extremely useful, can even counter a sub optimal gravity hammer swing. It doesn't need to be nerfed, and if it will be nerfed, all it might need is it spawning in a little slower.

[@sangheilicommander1056]

i think its fine as is BUT if they do change anything i would say make it either the spawn or the ammo. down to 6. so missing a shot or 2 is allot more punishing

[@--...--...--...]

The solution: git güd

[@SamHoward-l9q]

@@sangheilicommander1056 ooo Actually, I think that would be pretty fair.

[@seanbrennan5192]

Why use the plasma pistol? That’s the problem with the mangler lol

[@Kelastris]

@@seanbrennan5192 this isn't a problem with the Mangler, it's a problem with the plasma pistol. The plasma pistol needs a buff to make it more reliable, not the other way around. I don't want two worthless weapons taking up sandbox space, I'd want a plasma pistol that could do a little more DPS on both semi auto mode and charged shot mode to make it competitive with the Sidekick. The simple fact of the matter is if you miss your first charged shot with the pistol, you're often dead before you can switch weapons or charge a second shot. Let's not even bother mentioning that a Spartan's piss stream would do more damage than the plasma pistol on semi auto mode.

[@mdioxd9200]

I swear if they touch anything other than his spawn-rate I swear I'll literally drink water 😡

[@doubledoinkd]

permission to use this threat myself? this one's really good

[@hiwrenhere]

But what about the ravager?

[@milkshakedraws6944]

That’s too far, don’t drink water, it’s not worth it.

[@FranklinThe1]

😱😱😱

[@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial]

@@hiwrenhere kinda sucks tbh

[@S1erra107]

The more I think about it, the less sure I am about moving it to a higher tier. It’s prominence on the battle field ensures it’s a constant threat to be aware of, and increases tension. As long as the gun is equally available to both teams spawns in symmetrical maps/modes, I’m almost okay with it staying as is

[@voidkirb5477]

Mhm. I love the pacing it brings to the games.

[@danielclemens3477]

Agrred

[@theXEN0KID]

That's a good point. The Mangler is currently available to both sides because of the rack it spawns on (on symmetrical maps). That gives both teams equal access to it. if its moved to a shotgun rack, those usually spawn in the centre of the map and there'll be only 1 in play, giving a huge advantage to the team that holds it

[@Joeru510]

That’s very true, now noticing, if it wasn’t for the spawn times of the manglers we would probably see way more BRs being used more often throughout the match. Rather than the guys jumping in now and then with the deadly mangler.

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

​@@theXEN0KID So having 2 on your team because you won the first fight isn't an issue? The huge advantage is now gigantic.

[@Nailfut]

After almost two months, I can safely say that I keep dying more to a Neelder than a Mangler, people are just afraid to use it properly

[@BLOODKINGbro]

Yeah. Needler smg owns at mid range

[@browe091]

Needler has almost no counter play without equipment or cover nearby. That gun is so damn strong and I don’t see people talking about it much.

[@danksaucegaming]

I think the mangler should stay the way it is now. Having the spawning reduced just means players don't get to use a fun gun as much. The whole point of video games are to entertain and have fun, a d the mangler is both of those. As long as both teams can have access to them, it is equal number wise, but skill will determine the outcome.

[@TheGirthwormJim]

The fact it outclasses the tier 2 power weapons as a tier 3 weapon doesn't concern you for sandbox balancing? IMO, with how quickly it spawns, it lessens the need to pick up other weapons like the Needler and Sentinel beam which are actually finally good in this game, and it actually completely trumps the plasma pistol making it a redundant, pointless weapon. It also can take the role of the Pulse carbine and more consistently pop shields at mid-longer range targets. The Disruptor still needs some love, it's too underwhelming as is. I like its use case in theory, but it's so niche of a scenario, and the mangler can kill in basically the same time as landing the 3-4 shots with the disruptor. I think it just fills far too many roles, which pushes it into OP territory and more importantly makes other weapons in the sandbox less impactful. I don't think the gun needs a nerf, but it should be treated like the tier 2 power weapon it is.

[@danksaucegaming]

@@TheGirthwormJim I've never played Halo before so I don't care about those things. I play CSGO where everyone uses the same 4 guns. I still use the weird ones, but in Halo the guns are so different I enjoy getting good at a certain few. The disrupter and mangler are my favorite because of the gameplay mechanics but also because of how they look. I like having a big revolver and an electric style handgun and I use them because I feel cool holding them. That's the stuff that matters to me in games I guess

[@Cheezmonka]

@@danksaucegaming And that's totally valid, but would you suddenly use the cool giant revolver less often if it got a small fire rate nerf?

[@tarantolopictures481]

The needler is better

[@danksaucegaming]

@@Cheezmonka not really, but that's because I like the gun. I don't like game companies nerfing everything when they could buff other guns to their level

[@psychofroggy8062]

The weapon for me took a while to really master. When I first tried it the mangler felt very awkward. But now it’s easy to use 1 shot followed by a melee gets me a kill but at a distance from an enemy it takes 3 shots which can be hard to do at times The gun isn’t overpowered it is simply a powerful weapon anyone can pick up on the map that’s great at close distance. Whoever complains about this weapon are either bad at the game or want BR to dominate.

[@hiwrenhere]

Viewer question response: that's tough. The heatwave DESTROYS vehicles. Some of the tier two weapons in Halo infinite feel a lot more powerful than previous halos. In this sense yeah, the way the heatwave can dominate vehicles and struggles a little bit with players is similar to how the mangler dominates players but has literally nothing for vehicles. I'd say put it alongside the heatwave.

[@kapthas59]

Just put mangler in tier 2 for ranked and leave it in tier 1 in social.

[@hiwrenhere]

@@kapthas59 yeah, for social games it really doesn't matter I think

[@TheFlyingPilgrim]

@@kapthas59 I wouldn’t care if they did that for ranked, since ranked already sucks ass. I dislike having it be a BR start.

[@kapthas59]

@@TheFlyingPilgrim mangler starts would be interesting 😉

[@seantrevathan3041]

I think I have been using the Heatwave the wrong way because of this. It felt like the successor to the Halo 4 Forerunner shottie( not sure if 5 had one as I skipped on that game) because it has the spread of a shotgun). But, aside for enemies in a group, where it can pass through players, it seems more effective at vehicles. Is that correct?

[@SlipspaceEntertainment]

I think it’s funny there’s all this controversy about the Mangler because I pretty much suck with the mangler I can only kill people by Melee with it I can’t hit people from afar. If you can kill people from a range with this more power to you cause it take some skill with it being a projectile weapon

[@marcello9476]

your inability to use it effectively is more about you than it is about the weapon. Pretty much everyone can use this weapon effectively, especially in the competitive scene

[@milkshakedraws6944]

One time I was playing a game and I got the final six kills, all kills were with the mangler. I got five kills by shooting someone with the mangler once and grappling to them, before hitting them. I got a five killstreak(you know the awards you get, I got one for five). I really hope this gun isn’t nerfed, super fun to use if you can get into that groove.

[@sneeper1301]

I love the design of the Mangler. It feels so good to use but it may be a bit too good. I don't think the nerf should be stats wise though. Maybe it is less common or is moved to a higher tier of weapon?

[@LloydsSky9]

It's a pistol...why would you move it up a tier instead of re-balancing it with the Disruptor and Plasma pistols. All the Pistol class weapons should have their own strengths to equal out in kill potential. The Needler and Sentinel beam are considered SMGs in game... The Mangler should remain as a Pistol class weapon.

[@Windjammer19]

@@LloydsSky9 "It's a pistol." Bold to say in game franchise where the CE magnum exists. Just because it looks like one doesn't mean it's supposed to be treated as one. And if "It's a pistol" is the reason why it's on a 30 second timer, then maybe the visual design of the gun is in question. Heck they have the exact same gun but make it a scopeless rifle. This could even fix the melee combo since a bigger gun means they need can slow the melee down.

[@sneeper1301]

@@LloydsSky9 I think the utility of the mangler is in a good spot to be a higher tier weapon. Just because its a pistol doesn't mean it has to follow the same rules.

[@archangel4868]

@@LloydsSky9 bruv. pistols can be just as deadly as any other weapon. listen to the other blokes replying to you. the idea of hierarchy based on weapon class is entirely imaginary and can be deviated from to make more impactful and stylish weapons.

[@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial]

@@LloydsSky9 more of a hand cannon

[@Motoboo_Marine]

I find it funny how everyone was complaining it sucked too much at the beginning lol. To me it's the balanced version of the CE magnum. I'd like for them to keep the function how it is, and any nerfs be based on weapon pad and/or max ammo.

[@colbyboucher6391]

Yeah, the mangler definitely started with 343 trying to figure out how to bring the CE magnum back, since the whole game is kind of a throwback. Still, I'd love to see the CE magnum exactly as it was originally as a power weapon

[@archangel4868]

i think max ammo or the ammo economy of it would be the better nerf since you can usually only carry around 4 spare mags but the mangler gets 6. i also think the mangler is just too common of a weapon in the campaign.

[@hiwrenhere]

Commenting my thoughts before I have watched the video, will update after I've watched it. I like the mangler, quite a lot. I'm not good with it and I mostly leave it on the rack, BUT it comes back to the diversity of the sandbox. I like that I can see people playing DIFFERENTLY when they have the mangler. A dude is charging me holding a pistol and I'm just laughing like "bruh you're gonna die" for me to get shot once and then die. I like this experience, not just because it's funny because of the momentary cockiness I have that gets crushed by such a tiny weapon. I like the mangler being in the sandbox because it also diversifies my interaction with the other team. I can't just continue using the same strategy of circle jerking the Halo 3/reach "Everybody use the dmr/br all the damn time at short to long range because nothing else is viable besides the sniper". I have to learn to adapt! And that's great! In summary, I don't personally like using the mangler, I just don't feel good with it and it doesn't match my preferred personal play style. But I love that the mangler exists as is in the sandbox because it allows my team mates and the enemy team to diversify their interactions and express their own styles of playing the game. Like, isn't it awesome that you can have the pansy who only long ranges/widdles down shields AND the aggressive "in the enemy's face" play styles both validated by the sandbox?!?! Come on people, this is beautiful poetry! Anyways, thanks for reading my Ted talk. Edit after watching the video BRUH YES. THE DIVISION OF THE SHOTGUN IS IT. But when you divided it into 3 instead of 2 like I was thinking "But wait? Whaaaaaaat" I was thinking this but did NOT consider the mauler in the shotgun division. You made really great points, thank you for the video.

[@Madrex13]

Ngl ascend halo has been pretty demoralizing as of late for me. but whenever I see your videos and I see the in depth analysis you do and the passion you put behind your vids it really gets me reinvigorated to play infinite again. So thanks for being that consistent ray of positivity

[@TironsLegend]

On your point regarding the shotgun being split into different weapon roles, there are several single loading weapons that fulfill that niche the shotgun once held. Notably the Forerunner weapons and the Hydra. They use the same mechanic of reload management so that the player can decide how much time spent reloading vs. ammo preparedness for their next fight. The Hydra in close-quarters is almost like a repurposed shotgun, in this way six rounds that need manual loading, and instead of getting close-range spread damage, it's impact/splash damage. This of course changes when switching to the tracking mode, but the functionality is certainly there.

[@sirluzalot2000]

I'd love to see how infection would play with the heatwave or sentinel beam the reload along with their other unique mechanics would make for some really fun intense moments similar to the ones infection is already known for

[@nrsvoid4855]

Mangler is probably my favorite gun in infinite it’s so much fun it shouldn’t be nerfed it just needs changes in spawn rate/times

[@soeivjockey3526]

I think it's important for there to be power crossovers with the tiers, it enables teams on the back foot to stage comebacks against teams controlling the stronger weapons and forces those in the lead to perform well or lose control.

[@ClonedGamer001]

I like how the revolver system is so reliable and easy to use that multiple species on different planets developed it

[@Mystic_Chizu]

Thing is though, having a mangler availabl for both sides at the start of the match means the initial clash becomes that much more high stakes as whoever wins potentially gives the other team two manglers. The main issue tbh is just not enough players respect its power to prioritize taking out the mangler user or picking them up from racks or on the ground. Because of that players that do know how to use it tend to hold on to it for longer and end up dominating more since theyre not being hunted as much as a sword, heatwave, or shotgun user is.

[@StreakedSilver]

I can't use it, its drop off and my lack of aim right now means that I can't really snipe or engage mid range, only close in one tap one slap. But it IS powerful and good. I think it should be on a higher tier, but not touched stats wise. I just need to get good.

[@UpToSpeedOnJaguar]

This is the unfortunate truth for less reasonable folks not good with it. They hate it because they can't use it, or feel it's cheap it has that one-shot-melee ability. Most of these dudes don't realize the bulldog and heatwave also have this ability, while the mangler has a slightly longer viable range. I almost never feel like I've died to a mangler that wasn't my fault. I'd say the only nerf to consider is slightly reducing its pickup ammo reserve.

[@nickq8093]

@@UpToSpeedOnJaguar that's kinda the point. the heatwave and bulldog are tier 2 weapons, and they are respectably powerful. the mangler is a tier 1 weapon that is almost as powerful as them in their role, while also being an only mildly sub-par mid ranged weapon. the other two have no mid ranged capabilities to speak of.

[@aidan8473]

I love the Mangler, I really hope it isn't nerfed.

[@LloydsSky9]

Nerf it to where the other pistols are just as viable on the same rack or Buff the Plasma and Disrupter up to the manglers level.

[@MatthewTheSplendid]

Everyone except a few pro players love the mangler.

[@mhmtakeyatime9000]

@@LloydsSky9 buffing plasma pistol and disruptor sounds better tbh

[@REALMARCHINADER]

@@mhmtakeyatime9000 Yes please. Buffing weapons to be more viable should be the norm. Instead of nerfing.

[@nikisepps]

Haven't seen the video yet. Mangler is the new Magnum.

[@nikisepps]

YEP 100% AGREE WITH THE VIDEO

[@Yrrzy]

It's always felt to me like the CE magnum but as a projectile instead of a hitscan sniper, and I love it for that

[@TheVengefulVadam]

Pros are just mad people are getting kills with guns that aren't the Battle RIfle 😂

[@Reyma777]

I never saw the Mangler as a shotgun substitute. The mangler doesn't have bullet spread like a shotgun. The Mangler to me is a "hand cannon" pistol. It hits hard like the classic Magnum, however it can't overpower precision weapons at longer ranges.

[@AscendHyperion]

Well I too never said it was a substitute . I just described how by my analysis it carries and changes a concept FROM the Shotty. That was to counter the sentiment I've seen that claims it to be a shotty sub.

[@TheeJasonReyes]

I just want the Spiker back 🤷🏻‍♂

[@jacoblesterud9000]

to me, in functionality it is just a CE magnum that's for the first time in halos existence properly balanced (you don't spawn with it, aim takes skill, reduced mag capacity, fire rate and bullet speed and added bullet drop with but with more melee damage.) it's a perfect weapon if it needs a nerf then it needs a slightly longer spawn only but I think it's quite fine

[@MintyLime703]

>dies to gun once REEEEEEE GUN IS OP GET RID OF IT GET RID OF IT GET RID OF IT NOOOO

[@sibsart2039]

I know the nerf is coming, and making it a tier two weapon with shotguns and heat wave is a good nerf. That way the gun functions as is.

[@Wortwort-Spooderbat]

Dont nerf it

[@Scout339th]

This video explains it perfectly. And at the end, I feel a good balance would be to place it with T2 spawns, not pistol spawn locations. That's all I.think it needs. No buff, no nerf, just a change in spawn level.

[@51TD0wN]

If they're gonna do anything, I would prefer if it shared weapon pads with the other shotguns. Like you said at the end. I am concerned though, 343 has a bad record buckling to suggestions from competitive players.

[@LloydsSky9]

🤯 Perplexing assessment, it is a pistol class weapon. It should within the confines of what a pistol is. Either nerf the Mangler or buff the Plasma and Disrupter to the same kill potential.

[@nolanpeters5462]

I wholely disagree. The shotgun balance is fine right now. Shotguns in this game are left weak at CLOSE range, but strong at medium. Mangler doesn't fit this weapon pool. It does however fit the super gimicky pistol pool. Everything in the pistol pool has some way of killing you REALLY QUICKLY.

[@51TD0wN]

Except the disrupter, which has utility. All I'm saying is I don't want it nerfed, and they should do whatever they have to to justify its existence. But ideally they should do nothing. It is a weird gun, but ultimately, is it that much better than other guns? No, not really. And raising it's shots to kill by one would just make it useless. 4 shot kill, 2 shot beatdown is just the BR, but with slow projectiles. Halo 5 nerfed half the weapons in the game so badly that there was no reason to pick them up, and in my opinion that lead to a much more bland, magnum spam experience, and wasted Halo 5's potential. Now the mangler is "controversial" because it's good at something? Why not let it be good? It's a pickup weapon. When I was growing up, and a gun was good, that's just how it was, and people dealt with it. Now we have all these spoiled "competitive" players whining on social media until the devs cave.

[@nolanpeters5462]

@@51TD0wN lol I forgot about the disruptor outright imma be honest. That being said it still has kill potential just in unique ways. 4v4 I'd agree it's pretty useless, but if vehicles are in play it's a game changer. I think you think I want to nerd the mangler. I say buff the mangler and make it a 2 shot kill at close range anywhere on the chest or head. Make everyone fear the mangler

[@51TD0wN]

@@nolanpeters5462 Yeah! I legit want to see them do that just to see the complaining xD

[@beaumoss3424]

One of my first thoughts about it was it was a nerfed Halo CE pistol. Can still 3 shot, but reduced mag, bullet drop, and slower. Definitely looks like the mauler and plays like one up close though.

[@NotSoMax]

Honestly I don’t have much of an issue with the mangler, I love to use it, it’s been one of if not my favorite guns since launch and I never feel like it was unfair when I die to it, I feel like I always had the opportunity to play that situation better. I think changing its spawns might be a fair compromise but ultimately I don’t mind where it is. I’m always wary of changes being made because of competitive when it’s making a major change for a minority of the community.

[@bigbadbox6023]

The last thing the game needs is to start nerfing guns. IMO, there needs to be a round of buffs for some of the less useful weapons. Bring the ones that are struggling up rather than pull the good, or even just ok down.

[@stefans4562]

Mangler should be tier 2. No nerfs, please

[@loonynine22]

i dont think it needs to be nerfed but i think it really defeats the purpose of the other shotguns when a lower tier of weapon is way better than both of them lol. They should probably swap the weapon pads in Baazar its crazy to have 2 manglers and 1 bulldog.

[@matthewtanous7905]

I find the Bulldog to be “better”, in that it is easier to use in most applicable situations. The Mangler requires a lot more skill outside of near-melee range.

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

The issue is the Mangler is that it is best described as a jack of all trades power weapon which takes the Sword's melee, Sniper's accuracy, and clip size to reflect a rocket handling multiple people which gives it very little flaws with 8 shots. It needs to be a higher tier AND reduced to at 4-6 shots before reloading because it does simply too much. As is someone has to miss 6 shots before they are forced to consider coming into melee range which lets it easily counter melee but still can compete with melee. The shot + melee combo lets this counter long range enemies if you close the gap via cover or land 3 shots. Make it so missing your shots is an actual issue. Every gun can miss shots, the reload frequency is what makes missed shots in a balancing feature. If you miss 2 shots with a 4 shot Mangler then you're forced to reload or close in on melee range while a 6 shot Mangler requires missing 4 shots which is the same as a Sniper.

[@stupidflandrs4856]

I think the point you bring up about the Mangler sharing a rack with the Disruptor and Plasma Pistol is a good one, and I think it really shouldn't be in the same place as them. They're lumped together on the same racks because they're all "pistol-type" weapons, but that description doesn't properly express the radical differences in their function. A shared-rack system might work for the Bulldog/Heatwave and Commando/BR, but that's because their functions are very similar, just interpreted in different ways. But with the Mangler, Disruptor and PP, their functions are entirely different on a base level, and the unpredictability of which gun will spawn where on social maps can have massive negative effects on balance. The main example that comes to mind for me is the defender spawn in One Flag CTF on Launch Site. In that area, there are two weapon racks that spawn pistol-type weapons; one of them is even on the best power position on the map: the bridge overlooking the rest of the main road, making it perfect for vehicle watch. If there's a Disruptor on that high-ground pad, then the defenders automatically get a massive boost, because they now have a gun that they don't need to abandon a good position to get, that can EMP the attackers' most powerful tools, and that respawns on a very short timer. In my ~200 hours on Infinite so far, I can't remember losing a single defense round on that map when there is a Disruptor. But if there isn't one, if the two pads have a Mangler and PP, then the defenders are suddenly at a disadvantage. Their EMP utility is gone except for a couple dynamo grenades that are in a VERY risky low-ground position. This makes it much easier for the attackers to roll up with a well-coordinated vehicle push and win the round quickly. Another example: the pistol-type spawn on Bazaar. If there's a Mangler in each of those houses, suddenly the whole dynamic of fighting for OS/Camo changes, because the small rooms on either side of that pad are suddenly much easier to camp due to the tap 'n' slap, which slows down gameplay on a map that already encourages passive play way too much (especially in Slayer). You could camp in it with a plasma pistol and do an EMP punch, but that consumes battery power and emits a sound cue to have the same effect (yes, the Mangler is objectively better than the PP in all metrics, but that speaks to the PP's weakness, not the Mangler being OP). One might say that this variation is a good thing because of how it creates new gameplay situations and keeps maps fresh, and while that is true for other rack variations, pistol racks and their unpredictability tends to disrupt balance and map flow in a negative way more than anything else.

[@LoridaMan]

Something I haven't seen mentioned that I think is a positive side effect of moving the manglers spawn position is that it frees up those slots for a plasma pistol or disruptor to appear in the same game. Those 2 weapons both kind of counter the mangler with their longer range, with an overcharge plasma pistol + melee being just as effective as the mangled, but requiring more ammo. I personally think it should be moved to the shotgun weapon rack, making it a neutral weapon to be fought over. I could see an argument to put it where the needler and sentinel beam spawn, but those are usually 2 per map, which is part of the issue with the mangler: its prevalence.

[@Wolfgang-j4u]

I definitely think it should be promoted to a higher level weapon pad, in my opinion the mangler is almost better than the heatwave and bulldog

[@rookie4582]

Could you give your thoughts on the energy sword? Besides it looking pretty awful texture wise. I feel like the lunge range is a tad to forgiving since we have the grapple shot now. I feel like he Halo 3 Energy Sword range would be perfect, encouraging the Energy Sword to be used a defense weapon more, and add risk when using offensively. Balance?

[@soccergoku24]

The normal Energy Sword distance is trash compared to any other Halo game. But second version is closer to Halo 2 Energy Sword.

[@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial]

Ngl I just hate how it looks, and how it sounds. Gameplay wise the only gripe I've got is how there's no shotgun that can act as a counter and how the lunge feels inconsistent at times

[@daddysempaichan]

Making it a Tier 2 weapon or lowering it's spawn rate should be fine. Alternatively, lower ammo reserves to make each shot more valuable and makes missing feel more punishing. I had an idea of slightly nerfing it's damage so it takes 4 shots to the body to kill, but 3 if you can land a headshot after dropping shields, basically mimicking the Mozambique Drill, but with how slow it shoots it's probably best if we don't nerf it's DPS.

[@Joeru510]

The reason I fell in love with the mangler is because, like you said, it fixed everything the mauler didn’t do and I loved the mauler. But this weapon is such godsend it’s like I want my own plush of it haha. I hope 343 doesn’t need cause damn this gun is perfect the way they made it ;-;. Hope they only change it to a different teir so the spawn rates aren’t absurd. Edit: also I feel 343 are avoiding something so easy which is, if the bulldog gets outclassed most the time in matches by the mangler, just take the bulldog out of the maps that the mangler plays better on. You don’t ALWAYS have to have the entire sandbox in the map. Same argument goes for mangler too. Personally I think that one outdoor academy map should keep the bulldog, and maps like the one that looks like bazaar should keep the mangler cause of the long distances. Easy fix

[@vesselbros_]

Huge fan of buffing instead of nerfing, would like to see its sister weapons the heatwave/bulldog brought up a bit more in power to justify the higher weapon locker tier placement. Having the mangler share a locker would feel kinda silly if the other two weapons arnt as strong

[@zeldosan5138]

Buffing instead of nerfing is a good general philosophy, especially for fighting games and mobas, but I believe you may have to nerf guns sometimes in Halo, or it might build up to a ttk issue where everyone dies way too fast. But in this case I agree with you that the other shotguns are less than stellar. The bulldog in particular doesn't feel great.

[@infiniteclips-5325]

The Mangler is my favorite weapon, i get sick clips with it and i love its design, its like a portable skewer.

[@dannywayne311]

Right, it doesn’t take up half your screen for the damage output

[@effjay8970]

I want one of two things to happen, either make it a 2 shot melee, or delay the ability to melee after the first shot to at least give the opponent the slightest chance to get a shot in on the mangler holder. The one shot melee combo is so damn fast I don’t even notice that I’ve been shot prior to the melee. It’s a good weapon but there’s no question that it is somewhat broken.

[@LloydsSky9]

Nope, the Mangler is setup in game to be on the same level as the the Plasma pistol and Disrupter. It is far better an option than the others are at all ranges.... That's a balancing problem. Either you give the Disrupter and Plasma pistols the same type of kill potential of you bring the Mangler down to their level.

[@AscendHyperion]

What is your reasoning for that mindset? They are all "pistols" so must be equally weighted? That's not only needlessly limiting, it's not even "Halo". Halo CE, Halo Reach, Halo 4 and Halo 5 are all games where "pistols" have prominent places in the sandbox. It's literally the meta in two of those games. Halo is about usage, not title.

[@LloydsSky9]

@@AscendHyperion I'm talking about balancing, title goes along with balancing. I'm a purist when it comes to balancing, I should be able to pick up the Disruper or the Plasma pistol and have the same or similar kill potential as the mangler in certain aspects. Look at the Needler and the Sentinel beam... Perfectly balanced in my opinion, and they sit on the same rack.... These assertions about changing the rack the Mangler sits on or limiting its spawn time isn't fixing the issue of balance.

[@AscendHyperion]

Rhe Tier 2 weapon class has always been highly varied in power. In fact traditionally some tier 2 weapons could instakill, which Infinite removed. This has always been the weapon range of greatest dynamics. The raw performance of the Mangler is far from unheard of

[@Jirwemthegreat]

Personally, I don’t see the Mangler as a shotgun, though I did assume it was for quite a while. Then I started playing the campaign (where the purpose of many weapons became more clear to me), and noticed it wasn’t so much a newer version of the Mauler, but an alien version of the *CE Magnum* (more so than the Sidekick) with the Mauler aesthetic. It has the stopping power of the Magnum, the range of the Magnum, and is dropped about as frequently as the Magnum was in CE. This is a sidearm worthy of a Brute the same way the CE Magnum was a sidearm worthy of a Spartan. In short: No nerf, pls keep!

[@themainman8754]

The problem with splitting weapons is removing a pretty essential part of halo. It's like cutting off donkey kong from smash bros and expecting fans to enjoy it. I still enjoy the diddy kong version which is the bulldog but it isn't the same ya know? But if they added it back in it might get oversaturated compared to bulldog... so idk its up to the devs.

[@Shuriblur]

The mangler is certain a fun weapon, and I think the learn curve with it is what currently makes it one of my favorite weapons. The transition from trying to use it like a pistol, to starting to take in the projectile’s fall arc is incredibly satisfying. Kind of reminds me of the reach grenade launcher.

[@adamthompson9388]

The mangler, like you said, is really strong. It's a CE Magnum, a Plasma Pistol, and a Shotgun all rolled into one. It has no business spawning as often as it does. As you said, Halo's sandbox is about trading up and trading out, but you're supposed to have to work for that power. You don't have to work for a mangler, it spawns on a 30 second timer with loads of spare ammo. You don't have to be judicious with ammo, you don't have to plan ahead or win a fight to get one like power weapons, and it's hardly situational, only really being outclassed at long range thanks to its travel time. I enjoy using it and would probably prefer not to see its functionality nerfed, but something definitely needs changing.

[@RapidActionAnimations]

I find the mauler really good! You need good aim and practice with it, from a far distance you need to aim a certain amount above the target. Great video and breakdown

[@maybeharold]

I'm ok with the mangler being in the tier 2 spawns, however they either need a new pistol then, or for multiple weapons to be able to spawn throughout the game. Instead of the tier 1 drop near spawn always being the plasma pistol that game, allow it to change into the disruptor at some stage in the round.

[@adrianneosa1490]

I like the mangler the way it is. It's not too OP and requires the user to know how to use it. Once you figure that out, you now can figure out how to fight against it. I've never felt like the mangler was too op while playing.

[@sebastianhalosaur5684]

The mangler can still have it's one shot, one punch combo; however, the time between shooting and melee needs to be increased. It's literally almost instant

[@LloydsSky9]

Logic☝🏿☝🏿☝🏿

[@scorpiowarrior7841]

I think the best move is to move it's spawn. I LOVE the mangler and don't want it nerfed however if we go with both routes, the biggest nerf I could see (aside from just nerfing the damage into the ground) is upping the recoil and making it take longer to recover from a shot with the mangler, thus reducing accuracy and it's effectiveness at longer ranges since it isn't a one shot one kill weapon.

[@KouD3Graw]

you wanna know what's also a mangler? Spray the assault rifle for 1-2 seconds and melee. Mangle don't need to be nerfed, but the melee does. I die to it way too much. It's a shotgun in your fist and doesn't take much damage to allow it to kill you. A bee sting comboed a melee will kill you. The mangler TTK is like 1-2 second faster than just assault rifle + melee, yet you'll die to the assault rifle combo more overall. Mangler is just the plasma pistol + Melee, but quieter and less CHARGING forever for the chance someone will come around the corner. Yet the plasm pistol + melee combo on a sword player is so damn satisfying lol. In my opinion the damn melee needs to be nerfed or reworked. 1 melee completely pops shields and the other melee comes out like 2 seconds later with the exact same level of strength. So many combo's in this game yet that melee with no damage increased weapon is as bullshit as the Call of Duty knife. When you see players literally killing eachother at the same time with punches majority of the time you know it's dealing too much damage. It's barely a roll of the dice. It's mostly a certain kill.

[@nickjackify]

Mangler: •Tier 2 weapon •With more ammo •Longer despawn timer I think that could be a viable fix. Make it a tier 2 to spawn it less on the map but also make it have more ammo and a longer despawn timer so it can be passed around by multiple players when they get killed. It can be used until it runs out of ammo or the timer runs out for it to despawn if not picked up quick enough.

[@sabinekine2737]

I always felt like, with the Sidekick, Commando, and BR basically making a Magnum redundant, that the Mangler did a great job of being a Magnum stand-in. A fusion of the Magnum and Mauler. Great weapon.

[@XSniper74184]

I could see moving it to the shotgun pool. My only thing is that the shots have travel time and drop so it takes skill to use at longer ranges, I like that. A powerful slow firing weapon that takes some extra thought to aim. I don't know enough about high level play to firmly say it but if the pros are butthurt about the shoot n' slap part specifically, just play around that. If you think someone has a mauler, don't close on them, backpedal and strafe.

[@gabrielarocena3074]

I think that the main problem of the Mangler is that its spawns on the utility weapon racks (Plasma Pistol/Disruptor) that have are really close to spawn points and is more frequent in the maps (6 racks on utility and presicion weapons while 2 racks on cqc and long range weapons on standard maps)

[@Aram1313]

Melee range needs a nerf on all weapons or desync is extending the range of melee? The Mangler doesn't need a nerf but it does need to be higher teir on the spawn pads, it should at the same level as the shotguns

[@colbyboucher6391]

Still think it'd make sense to make it a tier 2 weapon. Just don't mess with the gun itself. Like you said, it'll always define any engagement it's in, so lean in on that by making people fight over it more rather than letting it just spawn on a timer.

[@thirdwordbird3011]

I think that the real issue is that other tier 2 weapons aren't consistent enough tbh. Bulldog feels... off. I feel like sometimes it just misses shots because it feels like it. Heatwave is very fun but still feels inconsistent. It's incredibly hard to use right. Sniper is fine. The shock rifle still feels rough though.

[@SnapDaddy96]

Back when the game first came out I was of the same opinion "guns bad because it's super hard to kill consistently" but I did what a lot of the critics aren't, played the campaign messed with the sandbox more to learn how the weapons worked, I came to find out a lot of the guns aren't as bad as people like to make them out to be. Do some of them need reworks? Yeah I feel like guns like the ravager could use a little bit more tweaking because it's not as effective in multiplayer as it is in the campaign, but I feel like it does have its niche something that it does better than every other weapon. They should lean more heavily into that the Mangler is that run and gun beat you down weapon and it should be that, the bulldog needs to be that mid-range shotgun the ravager needs to be a mortar. In the end these weapons were designed with purposes and people need to experiment and not just try and change the games entire core mechanics because a different game does it differently. That takes away the identity of the game you are currently playing and feels very disingenuous.

[@iKiwed]

Personally I want to keep it as it is, period. I can eventually accept the idea of upgrading to a higher tier like the Bulldog, but I don't want any nerfs or buffs, and according to a KZbin poll, everyone likes it the way it is. Also, I want to point out that the Mangler reminds me of the Halo CE Magnum for its effectiveness, but now it's perfected and more kill oriented. Overall, I believe it's a fantastic weapon. A bit sweaty, but at the same time not as the Halo 5 Magnum.

[@sheahon1179]

Definitely should be up shifted but it's prevalence shouldn't change. I love this thing!

[@josephclassi5719]

Epic conversation peice here for everyone to build off and a well formatted video too. Halo especially infinite needs more encouraging shit like you man, you give me act man vibes of harsh and balanced critiques based solely on personal passion for the topic, you've got some serious unique shit to provide keep working man 👌👌

[@MindfulPersonalGrowthop]

Dude I was having a long day (not so good), randomly clicked on your video suggested. I laughed so hard in confusion at your intro. Instant subscribe w/ notys man. Nice one & thanks.

[@HannyaHalo]

I think either keep it unchanged or if they keep it a tier 1 weapon they should give it some stat changes. 1st of all nerf the damage to be on par with the stalker rifle. It's still a 3 shot if you can land the headshot BUT it's 5 shots to the body. Combined with a slight nerf to all banished melee weapon damage would help too. Just enough so you can't instantly kill people with the melee and would require at least 2 shots but not too much to lose that same feature on other guns where it should be kept since all other weapons capable of instakilling like the Mangler are higher rarity weapons. My goal with the nerf is to keep the satisfying 3 tap potential of the weapon but lose some of its versatility by not having shields drop just after 2 shots and by removing its lethality up close. I love the gun and want to see its uniqueness mostly unchanged without breaking the game or reducing spawn rates because I love using the gun.

[@GTAVictor9128]

Answer to viewer question: Since the only aspect that makes the Mangler so OP is it's bodyshot+melee combo that can generate a kill almost instantaneously, I think introducing a small delay before the player can melee after firing a shot would be the best way to balance it. That way, the opposing player has an actual chance to fight back at close range. In regards to mid-range engagements, I think it's damage output is fair as it is as you need to be accurate to score a headshot for the third shot, thus requiring skill.

[@Jaiden1028]

Side note, I never realize the bulldog was an automatic

[@warbrand2]

IT should be upgraded to a poll position in the sandbox, think of it like this you want map control to get it not putting it on just one sides spawn like it currently is. A central location is good enough. another problem with the mangler, is its main "counter" in the tier one weapons is strangly enough the assault rifle, which can out play a mangler more often then not, but in comp they don't have the assault rifle on all but one map... where it spawns for the team with the mangler.

[@raulz1lla]

I definitely think moving up a tier would be the way to go. Don’t change anything about the way the weapon performs, give players the option on how they want to play their shotgun-esque weapons.

[@shadowmarine9706]

There should be an achievement where you kill someone at long range with this weapon . Side note: one problem about the mangler is that you cannot afford to miss with this weapon, if you miss the 3rd shot in a dual you can lose easily especially in ranked which why I like to use it as a substitute to the plasma pistol to strip shields

[@HerrDerpington]

6:48 - Make it take all 3 corners of Halo's Golden Triangle. We need to yeet it when it's all out of ammo for a 1 shot kill.

[@cerebralcloud92]

I'd honestly move the Mangler to Shotgun Pads in Ranked, but I also feel like the Plasma Pistol and Disruptor should be buffed in some way to compensate for the Mangler being removed from said weapon pads.

[@BennyPress]

I think it should share with the pistol pads. But the issue that needs fixed (in social at least) is that the pads need to give the same weapon. they can rotate that is fine, but each side needs the same. Plasma pistol on the enemy team and a mangler on my team should not happen imo

[@archangel4868]

i see quite a few people in this comment section comparing the mangler to the ce magnum and i am so glad i am not alone. the only two differences i see between the mangler and the ce magnum is the projectile drop-off and the melee damage.

[@Multifireturtle]

Perfect synopsis, important to mention that you can only kill quickly with it if you're good at the game and can aim. I have friends who won't even pick it up because they just can't hit a target with it.

[@Nintendan95]

Really hoping the stats aren't nerfed, or if they are I hope they're sliiightly tuned. Would rather see spawn locations, respawn timer and/or ammo changes instead.

[@evmarekaj]

Honestly I'm not opposed to the mangler being tier 2, what I really want though is randomized weapon platforms, I'm not a big fan of playing btb and not being able to use a weapon becouse 1 or 2 people are monopolizing it, a lot of the time who gets a weapon is determined by spawn positioning not to mention if you are playing with friends you can't effectively cooperate since the squad mechanic isn't actually a squad mechanic

[@babayaga20000]

I know what you said but I loved dual wielding maulers in halo 3. Shooting both once is an instakill just like the regular shotgun. And you can still melee if you need to

[@Baytuh]

Can we not nerf guns in multiplayer in Halo Infinite, i don't want the sandbox to turn into Halo 3 or Halo Reach.

[@Divergent-ym3py]

Honestly I’m surprised people don’t find the heatwave just as annoying. I love using the long range mode cause it only takes 2-3 shots for a kill. It’s not as egregious as getting killed by the mangler at close range but. when you have somebody running close to you, switching to spread fire is perfect for spamming thanks to the mag size.

[@emilylefebvre646]

For the record: The Mauler was far more common than the shotgun on maps and was almost exclusively a slightly worse shotgun albeit more common. The Mangler on the other hand is a precision weapon, an interesting one at that given it *feels* like a revolver - not that I think the Mangler needs a nerf, just that looking at weapons in a vacuum without considering the context in which it's used isn't the best way to discuss these things especially when discussing an arena shooter, especially since one of the most popular potential "nerfs" competitive players have isn't even touching the weapon, rather making it a rarer pick up. If you wanted to dig the Mauler's grave, I'd bring up the fact that the Plasma Rifle is able to soften shields for a melee far more effectively and is about as common in Halo 3.

[@calebacosta959]

Encountering mangler users isn’t usually stressful for me. It not hard to outduel the mangler with the sidekick and some strafing. The low fire rate makes it tough for 1on 1 duels for me. I usually only use it when I’m following a teammate. That way I can drop shields quick for him or help clean up his kills. 1 on 1 i find the sidekick more useful.

[@omegawolfbrony]

I saw this gun as the second coming of Halo CE's magnum. With the mangler and sidekick, we have a choice in how we want to fight: heavy or light?

[@oliverdowning1543]

I think in response to the viewer question, no. It should not. I mean I can see it maybe saving the weapon if 343 did that because then people wouldn't want it removed necessarily but by having it on lower tier, less conspicuous weapon pads it creates an added layer of skill in keeping track of the mangler and making sure you know it's there rather than say a sword or a Spnkr where it's in view for all to see and if you happen to miss it there's a bunch of HUD good and 67 announcements that it's coming.

[@cubetamalvada893]

I don't know why people hat the Mangler. I know is an OP weapon, specially in Slayer but it takes a good amount of practice to perfect the playstyle of this weapon. The other day I noticed this, you see, I usually play the campaign with mouse and keyboard and I suck at usong most of the weapons with those controls, but the Mangler is another story, basically everytime I could in the campaign I used the Mangler, the first time I used it I didn't liked it and found it way too dificult to use, but the longer I used it, the better I got with the weapon. It is an OP weapon but it's really hard to use and it punishes you A LOT if you don't hit 3 out of 4 shots for example and it also has a heavy bullet drop that makes you think you are going for a headshot but you hit the torso or the legs. It's a good OP weapon, it can kill you on 2 or 3 shots depending on the game mode, but it surely takes a lot of time to master it, and with the wide pool of weapons in every map, I understand why you don't use it. I play online with the xbox controler but once we get this weapon in Slayer I change to mouse and keyboard, it amazed me that nobody on my team or the enemy team knew how to use the weapon, my teammates and the enemy were almost on par when it comes to their K/D during the match, I was the only one that died less than 5 or 6 times and had 20 to 25 kills.

[@nexuslord6831]

. . . The Mangler has damage falloff? Huh. Didn't know that. Good video as always homeslice, unlike school I've learned something. As for my answer to the viewer question.. From the way you make it sound.. Yeah, it needs a promotion. Not only is it consistent, but it also provides a huge damage buff and melee bonus, it takes three shots and you yourself even describe it as better than 2A tier power weapons. So.

[@dieterhorvat5176]

HEADCANNON: after dealing with the UNSC magnum, Banished forces just made new slug ammo for their maulers

[@Darth_Supaku]

I think it should stay as a pistol not only because I'm biased as fuck towards it but also because I feel like they're still needs to be something that can somewhat challenge a shotgun on the map especially whenever the opponents have near complete map control

[@thedoncjg6263]

Mangler can easily stay as a pistol class weapon - you’ll just need to increase the length of time it takes to spawn. This essentially makes it a mini power weapon of its own by making it less common on the field. Still keeps its great functionality but takes away the stress of constantly being in fear of the weapons existence in the field.