Why Halo Infinite Removed The Carbine and Many Other Weapons

[@AscendHyperion]

Twitter and Discord Purists agree. Ascend Hyperion is ESSENTIAL! twitter.com/Ascend_Hyperion discord.gg/2fDjeYs

[@Sn8kDr]

1st

[@busychickens4299]

i like what they are doing with halos sandbox, but i feel like these old weapons should return for forge

[@BattleBrotherCasten]

I don’t want another UNSC weapon though...H5 making the carbine a power weapon was the right move. Take the commando out...

[@Perroden]

I love having all kinds of different weapons and I don't see ppls issue... So what that this gun is similar to that one? It's like I never cared for the br but loved the carbine and then the light rifle even more. And iv never really cared for the beam rifle but love that it is there. Even if this was human vs human, yes they are similar but they operate ever so differently. Iv always wanted a bigger variety of weapons. Different pistols assault rifles ect for both factions.

[@Perroden]

@@BattleBrotherCasten why not just have both?

[@ScaleTail1101]

I'm less worried about them removing these weapons in particular, and more worried about them UNSC-ifying the sandbox. Cuz there's a high chance that means less enemy weapon variety in campaign.

[@2Potates]

My thoughts exactly. But at least we've already seen that the Banished in Infinite will at least have more weapons than the Covenant did in CE.

[@cataclysmicdelta1828]

Interesting to see how some of this aged after the stream today, banished seem to have their own flair and elements with weapons based around electricity and I’m sure some kinds of covenant and forerunner weapons will make a return

[@skettinbutter3635]

Thank God they'll have more weapons than the game released 20 years ago

[@CranyUm]

I started to get this same feeling watching this video. I think part of the thing that made halo interesting was having different weapon variations for the different factions, even if those weapons had little to no differences between.

[@angrytwxgaming8423]

This was my thoughts. The carbine was never intended to be functionally different it was a world building tool. But he legit believes that this doesn't matter. Well now every brute is gonna have the pistol thing or the pulse because the ravager is a power weapon as is the skewer. They just shafted the oppositional light weaponry. Halo 3 you'd see brutes with spikers, maulers, brute shots, hammers, carbines and needlers The jackals and grunts had diverse weaponry. But now it's very limited because function over world building. Yea sure there's a few new guns that are coming. But objectively they're not as good. The only non power new weapon that stands out is the stalker rifle and I'm pretty sure it's actually considered a power weapon anyways. I'd take the binary and beam rifle over the stupid shock rifle any day.

[@Windjammer19]

The Carbine, to me, is a worldbuilding tool. Functionally, it was barely different from the BR, but it wasn't meant to be. It a Covenant equivalent that was meant for the Arbiter's missions and the AI to shoot at us. If 343 wants to make it a unique gun, they could give it a bleedthrough effect. The Carbine fires radioactive rounds. Maybe these could allow them to cause extra passive damage. Or maybe even shoot the floor for AOE. Just a thought. I'd like to see the carbine come back.

[@melodinumbra]

I really like this thought. Maybe like a damage over time effect? They’d have to be careful balancing that though, because we wouldn’t want to have another situation like Destiny’s “Thorn”.

[@blizzardgaming7070]

The DMR as accentually a lighter sniper could have a piercing effect, going through multiple opponents

[@robint361]

Honestly that's all the reasons I don't really like the carbine. The other covenant weapons felt truly alien with weird designs meant for alien hands and are genuinely fun to dodge all these brightly colors blobs of light. The carbine is still easily identified as a long barrelled rifle like they took an actual real carbine and asked themselves "how can I make this look Covenant", its no fun to be shot by this since its hitscan, and its even named like a human weapon. That being said I actually preferred the carbine over the br since I always found the br to be inconsistent, which is probably the fault of the net code rather than the weapon's design but the net code didn't really effect any other weapon for me.

[@hikaru4866]

Just a throwing a thought out there, what if they were explosive rounds? Ya know, because they're mini fuel rods? That could have some effect on game play.

[@blizzardgaming7070]

@@hikaru4866 that’s a good idea but we could have it stop momentum from slides and sprint so it isn’t to close the the brute shot and concussion rifle.

[@JediRalts]

I always thought the "variations" made sense at least lore-wise cuz it's like...well obviously the Covenant would have their own precision weapon and later the forerunner enemies would have their own as well, that's why we have the Carbine and the Lightrifle. And I don't see a reason to remove them cuz them being in the game really doesn't hurt anything. If anything cutting down the number of guns has made Infinite feel more...barren? Maybe. Can't really think of a good word to use. Doesn't feel as diverse. Even if the BR, Carbine, DMR, and Lightrifle are all similar, it just felt more diverse to have options like that. We're also missing interesting guns like the Fuel Rod cannon, Railgun, Saw and some classics like the Shotgun and SMG. I think it's just nice to have variety personally.

[@thebeatleswin1]

Variety isn’t the same as quantity. Having 4 guns that all function the same with very small differences isn’t variety, And it drowns out the weapon sandbox with weapons people won’t like. I get what your saying but having a collection of 40 guns isn’t some how better then having 18 guns just because the number is higher, If everyone thinks half the guns all feel the same, that will lead to a lot of people not using those guns, You might not feel that way, But a lot of people won’t have fun with guns when they think a lot of them feel the same.

[@SnackbarTheAdmiral]

@@thebeatleswin1 I don't think anyone is going to not have fun because a gun is too similar to another few guns, that just doesn't make sense to me. I understand if every single gun felt exactly the same that would be uninteresting and boring, but if there are 2 guns(even as many as 3,4,5 honestly) that are similar and fill the same role in slightly different ways, while the other 20-30 guns are vastly different than them, that just gives the player more choice and opportunity to express themselves when filling that particular role. Personally, I don't like burst weapons in any games, but i do like fighting at the long-mid range distance that the BR excels at, and I really like the aesthetic of Covenant weapons, the Carbine, in particular, is my favorite, so it's particularly sucky that it got dropped for Infinite. I'm aware the commando exists, and do enjoy using it in those long-mid range engagements, but I'm still not happy that one of my favorite weapons from the series got dropped.

[@isabellajustice2910]

@@thebeatleswin1 Yeah but not having these faction specific version of weapons hurts campaign by limiting what enemy weapons you can pick up in a pinch

[@XTheCrystalBeastGuyX]

The shotgun is literally a Halo Classic. The fact it's taken out is ridiculous. No SMG or LMG either is ridiculous.

[@averagemage6038]

@@thebeatleswin1 the guns arnt there for you. Infinite feels barrwn game play wise when grunts and elites use unsc rocket launchers instead of fuel rod cannons. It makes no sense and feels like an unfinished game, it also looks like shit

[@Vargas3499]

I think the clone weapons should be allowed in the game. They’re guns that look good, feel good, and sound good. Thinking of it like skins at this point. Their omission is definitely blown up by a vocal minority, no doubt

[@Zynet_Eseled]

I think that they could have reworked some of these weapons to have special roles. For example: the incineration cannon. Give it the river of light properties, as a low damage but high splash yield burst launcher. Heavy damage to vehicles with hard light detonations. That's a unique role. Covenant Carbine: Fores corrosive rounds that, on a shielded headshot, will ignore shields and start chipping away at health. Requires 3 headshots to kill a fully shielded spartan. And, if fired at the ground, it will leave a small aoe damaging pool that has low radius, but high damage. That's its role. Surpressor: Medium range lock on automatic. Very low damage, but the tracking allows it to be a nice counterpart to the pulse carbine. Will explode targets it kills. Similar to the light rifle's dying star variant. That's a unique role. SMG: Low damage, high rate of fire, fast draw speed and has a suppressor to prevent being seen on the minimap when fired. Close quarters automatic with low range and major bloom. That's its role. Fuel Rod Cannon: Similar to the covenant carbine, but with some tweaks. Medium Blast size, high AOE damage, and has dead mans trigger. Being killed with it equipped will detonate the loaded ammo. Which could kill nearby teammates. Risk/Reward as it has a medium to fast projectile speed and no distance falloff. That's a decent role.

[@kyle360123]

You worded it perfectly. I wish they would bring back the old weapons maybe even just for one game mode or playlist.

[@leftwardglobe1643]

@@Zynet_Eseled The TTK on the carbine sounds a bit absurd, but other than that, yes, it's a great idea. You could also add weapons like the Spiker by giving it a slower fire rate and slight knockback ability, allowing you to slow enemies and throw lighter vehicles like the mongoose off balance. Kind of like the concussion rifle, but full auto and direct fire. I'm thinking something like 400 RPM. Ultimately it needs to be there for lore reasons if nothing else because the Mangler is just a really stupid downgrade lorewise. You had an SMG, now you have a revolver. A Brute shot could be reverted to its Halo 2 days with bouncing nades, giving it good area denial and dps when used in close quarters. The blade also pairs well with this, as was intended.

[@Zynet_Eseled]

@@leftwardglobe1643 yeah. Then return the reach launcher with its ricocheting variant so you can send it far and emp a wasp out of the sky. The balance on the carbine is you gotta lead your shots. It's not the beam rifle. It isnt moving at the speed of light. It's actually rather slow. You miss, and theres a vapor trial leading straight to your face. That's the balance. And that corrosive idea is key. Think of it like the mangled crossed with the disruptor, minus emp and it does DOT that requires you to land those headshots. Body would require 6. And you have 12 shots in a clip

[@leftwardglobe1643]

@@Zynet_Eseled I suppose, but you'd need to drop the fire rate or make it a higher tier power weapon, which it really isn't. The carbine also doesn't have that much travel time. Hell, it doesn't have any in Halo 2 to my knowledge. So that would also be a huge change.

[@NewbHunter7235]

My two biggest gripes are taking out the standard shotgun we've come to love and getting rid of the emp on the plasma pistol. To me those things are as important to Halo as the warthog and ghost. And in a way getting rid of the eml is like if they took the lunge from the energy sword

[@isaiahrawlinson4885]

I've been wondering why they removed the standard shotgun as well since the bulldog is nothing like it. Maybe due to overlap with the sword?

[@MammothMorals]

Plasma pistol is now redundant.

[@silisrobert6950]

both the pump aand plasma pistol got nerfed pump is know a semi and less damge rip both wepons

[@MoptopTofer]

@@isaiahrawlinson4885 Even with the overlap with the sword it's one of the only hard counters to the sword/hammer.

[@megueno]

I thought the point of the plasma pistol was to be able to take down vehicles and shields.. now they have throwable grenades that do both which I feel is less skillful and more luck based. Kinda sucks and was hugely disappointing when I first got on and tried to emp a ghost just to get shredded instantly for trying

[@dandan7478]

I'm still sad they removed the DMR, literally one of my absolute favorite guns in the entire franchise. The carbine always had a sweet spot in it's game play in Halo 2 as the arbiter.

[@Banana-Boi]

Im hoping its added back atleast to customs.

[@idontlikesand7246]

I mean I guess that makes more since than removing the Carbine. But then again it's only different in fire rate and damage. So it makes sense. It's still very sad to see it go.

[@EliteKnight97]

I like pretty much all weapons in bungie era halo as well as the rail gun and promethean grenades from 4&5. it’s nice to have the variety and even tho I understand the need to cut out the chaff it’s still a shame to remove fun weapons

[@samuelzuleger5134]

I am sad to see the DMR go, too. I get the idea from a PvP functional argument, but many of the cut weapons were so much fun in the campaigns, firefight, and custom game modes.

[@F-aber]

i think they could just a the option to change firing mode on the commando so semi auto so it functionally works the same as the dmr

[@EpicGameChanger]

I never understood the mentality of people not wanting multiple versions of one gun, like I mean I like variety, I think it's great to have multiple options to choose from and it makes the world seem more realistic because in real life you don't just have 1 pistol or 1 rifle. And on maps you would only have 1 or 2 types of weapons on the map anyway to use so its not like u have to include every weapon on 1 map so you will get overwhelmed. That's just my take anyway, great video as always Ascend.

[@fabiovargas7802]

Yeah i don't see any issue with there being duplicate weapons, it has no impact on gameplay and it just makes the world feel more immersive. It doesn't make sense that weapons are unique irl

[@alexanderrobins7497]

Halo: CE had the least amount of redundancy which worked well for the multiplayer, as well as the campaign for the time. I am fine with redundancy if they are for different factions. I felt the carbine/needle rifle or beam rifle were unique enough and gave the Covenant more weapons to use against you. A bad example of redundancy that should be combined would be the missile pod and rocket launcher in Halo 3, or *glares at “halo” 5’s sandbox*.

[@AscendHyperion]

Well it's sorta one of those arguments with no "right" answer. When done right there is nothing wrong with variety and when done right there is nothing wrong with purity, and like any topic where there is no true moral right or wrong, you will always have dispute between the two haha.

[@noakuu393]

Games don't need to seem more realistic. They're meant to be balanced

[@-galm4-lonefox857]

The issue with some of these duplicate weapons they under perform the weapon they are suppose to duplicate making them just board line useless much like the plasma repeater from reach that was suppose to be between the AR and PR but was weaker compared the 2. So if majority of the community doesn't pick up this weapon or instantly pick up a better weapon from their own category what's the point of it being in the sandbox? I think if these weapons had their own uniqueness in game play other than just it just shoots plasma or bullets maybe the damage would do more to shields or vise versa or the projectiles would bleed through, bounce etc, would be enough to some what stratify both parties.

[@MuscledRMH]

The Covenant Carbine was one of my favorite rifles in Halo, simply of how iconic and cool it was. Didn't really care if it wasn't unique enough in the sandbox. It's part of the Halo world.

[@silisrobert6950]

ikr

[@FireForged_Music]

I do personally believe that some overlap should be allowed, even just for the sake of variety. Granted not every weapon should be a copy-paste of another weapon, but similar weapons which are stronger in certain ranges or certain tactics offer more variety and make the less stale. One example i would like to propose is how the Plasma rifle could work in infinite. I think it would work best if it overlapped with the AR as a mid-range gun. But while the AR is a kinetic, closer ranged option, the PR could fire slower but deal more damage, making it better for engaging in the longer half of the mid-range. Another could be a return to the classic shotgun. The bullpup is a weak shotgun, but is faster, allowing you to miss a shot and not be as hardly punished. If we brought back the classic shotgun and made it hit harder, but fire slower, it rewards hitting the shots perfectly (maybe even as a one tap if you hit a perfect headshot), but punishes you heavily if you miss this kind of overlap gives the game variety, without making the game feel redundant. Sure some people might prefer one gun to another, but thats the point. The guns should reflect different strategies, differing playstyles. It makes the game a lot more fun when you have that level of variety.

[@VokunVulonPrivate]

Except that the old shotgun was a 1 tap if all pellets hit even without headshot, that was kinda its thing, just stick it in their torso and blast them, bringing back the OG shotgun and making it need a headshot is making it worse than it ever was, what it needs to do is function at about 2/3rds the range of the bulldog and be a 1 tap if you hit them dead on, which balances the engagement of bulldog vs OG shotty, as its a case of can you hit them twice before they are close enough to hit you once, and they need to put its max ammo on the low end, say 2 or 3 full tubes at the most including the currently loaded shots, and raise the max ammo for the bulldog a bit, that would then give reason to pick one over the other, are you in closer ranges, or longer lasting engagements? This is what needs to be taken into account when adding overlap with guns, but as shown here, it's rather simple if you put thought to it to bring anything back to the game but balanced.

[@doesmoes]

I loved the Needle rifle from Reach. It was colourful, precise, and forgiving. The latter helped a lot with giving newer players a chance to enjoy the game while also improving their aim with a precision rifle. I wasn't new back then, I just enjoyed not having to focus too much and see my opponents turn into pink explosions

[@HuhJuhWuh]

much to my chagrin i dont think we're ever getting the sticky detonator back, that was by far my favorite weapon in Halo 4, very fun interactions in multiplayer, does a great job of letting you use the environment to your advantage

[@wolfdragox5563]

Never say never 😉

[@autumngottlieb3071]

I'm honestly convinced the Sticky Detonator would hold up in Infinite's sandbox, just because the ability to use the environment to your advantage like that is something no other weapon really does as well, at least not in the same way. Even the Reach Grenade Launcher still bounces off stuff.

[@AscendHyperion]

The constant rejection of the Sticky Det from new games really is a mystery to me.

[@HuhJuhWuh]

@@AscendHyperion riiiight!? arguably the best feature 343 has added to Halo IMO also thx for the reply dude, love your content, i always look forward a new video where you discuss halos weapon design philosophy, i would love to see you cover unique weapons like the sticky det and ones with comparably outlandish designs.

[@neumo5005]

The sticky det is an awesome and unique weapon, and we need to see something of the sort in future halo

[@nanokapp7794]

Still interested what the stalker rifle is gonna look/act like to separate itself from the sniper and commando

[@AscendHyperion]

Me too! It's going to be edging in on one of the most exclusive weapon classes in Halo. Big shadows to step out from!

[@andreavivi1841]

Bet is going to be a charged sniper. Similar to the bots snipers in gears 5. So in legendary jackals will give you warning before oneshotting you

[@ElMarihuaneitor300]

My guess is that it will function something like the binary rifle or the focus rifle, I don't know how else you can make an sniper type weapon without copying the UNSC one

[@Windjammer19]

Could be cool if it's a combo of the Carbine and the Beam Rifle. Hip-fire is (fast firing, single shot, headshot capable (5-7 shots), plasma based) and ADS is (slow rate of fire, single shot, very powerful headshots (1 to head, 2 to body). Both modes would share heat, so firing in one mode affacts how much you can use the other. Also plasma weapons can vent while pocketed (at least they used to before 343 added the "vent" function... *whispers* which is just a glorified reload).

[@Birbucifer]

@@andreavivi1841 So a linear fusion rifle from Destiny?

[@jackcolson4745]

In my OPINION, I think a _small_ amount of redundancy should be permitted because without it, balancing the role of the precision weapon will be more difficult because the precision weapon role design philosophy tends to be the meta in halo. I also think that if there was some redundancy it would take away uniqueness, but if enough identity is intact in the weapons, it would break the stale sight of seeing the same precision weapon all the time.

[@carlossalazar478]

No, the more weapons there are, the more you have to balance them with one another and the more difficult it becomes the harder it becomes to have a well balanced meta. Redundancy is acceptable if the redundant weapon adds something unique to its role that really changes how the gun is used in comparison to its cousins, but if its just a semiauto version of the BR (covie carbine) or a BR but in orange (light rifle), is just stupid to have them on the game.

[@jackcolson4745]

@@carlossalazar478 I generally agree with your first two points, but I disagree with your comparison at the end. I still stand by what I say; it will be hard to balance regardless of the amount of weapons in the sandbox because some roles just have the jack-of-all-trades, fast and reliable killing power as their role identity, namely the precision meta, which makes them hard to balance the entire sandbox around. In order to have sandbox competition, the weapons must be more similar to each other.

[@Perroden]

Iv always wanted a bigger weapon pool. I love uniqueness but i don't mind some redundancy. Like why dose it matter if the br and carbine or the snipers are similar? Like I would hate it if in Halo 3 the carbine was removed or heavily change it because "it's too similar". I never cared for the br but I love the carbine. And the the light rifle came out and I feel in love with even more. Or even removing the beam rifle. I never liked it but It should never be removed.

[@SASJinno]

But we do have *some* redundancy, but with core differentiations. The Assault Rifle and Needler are both automatic weapons primarily designed for close range - the AR focused primarily on damage and the Needler focused primarily on triggering an overload. I highly suspect that 343 is focused on making weapons that *can* fulfill a role, but are better suited to a more niche usage.

[@Gabe7Gal]

@@jackcolson4745 But precision weapons in Infinite are already balanced from the get-go, your entire point is moot here.

[@TheSeamonkeyBrigade]

I’ve been so bummed about the carbine. I never really used it when I was younger but then it was my absolute work horse in ODST and I fell in love with it. Oh well :/

[@Kruegernator123]

I used the Carbine all of the time in Halo 3. It's much easier to make headshots at longer range and doesn't have as much spread as the BR. Plus the reticle gains a dot in the middle when you acquire your target which helps with headshots like I mentioned.

[@Masamune-JGb215]

I love the points raised in this video, but there’s another side to the removal of the carbine that would be a bigger issue if the campaigns were brought into question, it’s gonna be strange seeing a lack of certain counterpart versions for the banished that weapons like the carbine and beam rifle did for the jackals, and the maulers and brute shots did for the brute. They added a bit more depth and variation to the sandbox as their strengths were taken into account with the species that wielded these weapons. And the discovery of these new enemies in tandem with new sandbox weapons to utilise was always the best part about halo 2 and 3 for me

[@Higher-Ground]

They could have reskinned the needle rifle.

[@neerGdyahS]

Don't forget the brute spiker. It feels startling to face brutes using primarily the mangler or UNSC weapons instead of spikers or carbines. Can't arm their own troops too well.

[@autumngottlieb3071]

I'm still banking on the Stalker Rifle being some kind of evolution of the various alien snipers. I only think that because it came with a Jackal Sniper action figure, but that's pretty much all we have on it so far.

[@jamesdiaz8439]

I think it'll act like a Destiny 2 linear fusion rifle. I think it'll be a sniper that needs to be overcharged in order to fire

[@CallumMcCartney]

@@jamesdiaz8439 wouldn't that just be the railgun though?

[@SoIstice]

@@CallumMcCartney Similar, but closer in execution to say chargers in Splatoon.

[@odinulveson9101]

The look of the stalker rifle which I assume is from the mp 4 spartan mp picture is very similar to a weapon I dreamt about after I knew H2 would be released. I was at the Halo level, standing to the left of the crashed escape pod with sniper on the ground and warthog with marines on my right. I held it and it was very similar to a red hue, maybe more purple glow than orange but shot orange bolts ... it was strange because both the carbine, stalker rifle and to a degree, the plasma repeater reminds me of my dream weapon...

[@BattleBrotherCasten]

@@PathtoMidnight No,it’s a Banished version of the Covenant Beam Rifle...

[@InnocentBlaze686]

I could care less about redundancy of weapons and vehicles; each one brought its own special flavor to the Halo table. If you slapped the Covenant Carbine and the Needle Rifle in the game, I would be all for it. Sure, they have the same function, but they execute their functions differently. Rapid Fire vs. Long Range needles

[@Ricardo2-dsm]

Thank God you don't work at 343

[@Major_Zephyr]

exactly, they added variety. It makes no sense removing similar weapons because they are "redundant". Halo 2, 3, 4, 5, Reach all had similar weapons types for each faction and guess what, it was fine. Having more options in the sandbox is NEVER a bad thing

[@Wylie288]

Redundant literally means that no. No they didn't bring their own flavor. They don't execute anything differently. The only difference is in your head.

[@Ricardo2-dsm]

@@Wylie288 couldn't have said it better myself

[@Major_Zephyr]

@@Wylie288 That's ridiculous, of course they bring their own flavor. The smg and the plasma rifle may fit the same archetype, but they function slightly differently and having both of them only enriches the sandbox. Not to mention it makes sense for both factions to have a full roster of weapons for each side, which makes fighting enemies with a wide variety of weapons more interesting. There can be more than one sniper, one smg, one precision weapon, ect. If we only had one weapon per weapon type, then why not remove all covenant guns from the game entirely? They're all redundant compared to the UNSC guns. Oh and the AR, the sidekick, and the Commando are redundant too because the BR can do everything better anyway, so just get rid of them all. See how dumb that sounds? Just removing shit by labeling them redundant is counter to building up the sandbox and giving players options for weapons. You're advocating for less options and variety.

[@lumpeistbark3]

We're probably not getting the railgun back, due to the skewer taking it's entire concept similarly to the spartan laser. This concept of redundancy always irked me when discussing halo, I enjoyed the variety and slight differences between the weapons. Why not just change map design to accommodate the weapons you place on it instead of removing weapons whole sale.

[@brad6501]

atleast add everything to forge

[@drolemem]

@@brad6501 forge ain't gonna be here in for a bit though, the latest leaks around forge show off something closely resembling the blueprints from unreal engine. If its gonna be that in depth its understandable why they need more time on that.

[@smac2394]

Rail gun go hard and it sucks to see it get left out, yet it does make some sense.

[@Commander_Neyo]

@@smac2394 I liked the rail gun, it felt powerful and good to one shot players.

[@viktoriyaserebryakov2755]

Exactly, we're told that redundancy is bad but nobody ever explains why it's bad.

[@josephmontanaro2350]

the carbine functions as a hybrid of energy and projectileweapons, it features great shield damage and good flesh damage, it's really noticable with the tilt skull on

[@dareal6861]

The 343 spook didn't take this into factor.

[@Zynet_Eseled]

@@dareal6861 they're focusing on getting the sandbox right. From there, once the game is in a good place, we can all collectively give suggestions on bringing back some of these old weapons, but make sure to give ideas on unique elements for them, to let them have unique roles. Heres an example of this: Rework the incineration cannon to be a river of light variant, with small explosions, medium to long range with drop off, and burst fire. 5 round burst. And to balance, you need 3 of the 5 bursts to hit to kill a spartan. Also, these explosions will do increased damage to armored vehicles like wraiths and scorpions. That's a unique role. Just hoping that the art team can come up with a wonderful design

[@neerGdyahS]

Workhorse of the covenant weapons. As a player the more enemies had carbines the more concerned I got because I couldn't dodge most of the covenant fire anymore.

[@EquestrianKatz]

It was my go to weapon in most of the series. Then 343 crushed my dreams in Infinite.

[@notjaller]

This is what happens when you listen to competitive players over regular players

[@autumngottlieb3071]

I think the answer to making the regular Carbine unique is actually in the weapon's lore. In the lore, the Covenant Carbine fires radioactive bolts, kinda like smaller fuel rods. It's described that the radiation poisoning from being hit by that can be lethal on its own. I think if you added a damage-over-time effect to the weapon to represent that, it would unique enough for my tastes. Obviously, there's more thinking to be done about that, and I have thought more about that, but to explain my entire thought process would be outside the scope of this discussion. Unless people want to hear it.

[@alexanderrobins7497]

One reason to keep Covenant version of UNSC weapons is if in a situation without the UNSC weapon. Levels like The Arbiter/Oracle, Gravemind, Uprising, or The Great Journey did not have any/many. Imagine going through those missions without a Covenant Carbine or Beam Rifle, in addition to the lack of UNSC weapons.

[@cynicalfox190]

I mean it could work, but does it bleed through shields? I could see it working on a % of max health. Say 2% of full health per tick with 5 ticks per hit, so if you only get hit with 1 shot you only have to deal with 10% of hp loss over time of course as well as the direct damage. The main thing is if it dosnt bleed through shields it’s not gonna have much affect on the gameplay as it’s a precision weapon and you want a headshot on an unshielded opponent anyway. if it does bleed through shields it could be very powerful in combination with a auto weapon, tap em a few times to get some bleed through and switch to the AR for a quick shield takedown and finish off what little health they have left. Honestly I don’t see it returning in the form of a precision rifle, maybe in some form of plasma weapon but then we have the issue of having to make a whole new weapon within the lore but that’s doable I guess.

[@Windjammer19]

Commented the same thing. Personally I felt H5's Light Rifle was even unique enough to stay. It had a "alt-fire mode" that basically turned it into the HCE Magnum. Which was cool. And yes, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

[@Windjammer19]

@@alexanderrobins7497 This. The second a BR isn't available because of the context of the level, people are gonna be annoyed. 343 needs to keep the campaign in mind too, not just the multiplayer.

[@thejfoshow1320]

@@Windjammer19 I think you’ll always have it though based off the base mechanic in campaign

[@dud5606]

Some guns will definitely return in the future due to Infinite being a live service game. I wouldnt even be suprised if at the end of its life cycle Infinites weapon sandbox became more bloated and oversatured with redundant weapons than any other Halo game before it simply because they will have to constantly introduce new weapons/maps/skins etc. every 3 months.

[@tr3ntn821]

I think you are on to something

[@derblitzspieler9577]

That could actually be the reason they cut so many weapons. They just don't want use all their options at the beginning

[@tehswordninja4915]

It really makes sense too, if they trickle in returning weapons slowly they can balance a slow trickle of content better than having EVERYTHING in the game at the start.

[@whitephillip6997]

I seriously hope so man... otherwise I'm gonna have a hard time sticking around longer than a week or two.

[@alastor8091]

@@derblitzspieler9577 makes 0 sense. None of the past Halos had that problem. I'm tired of this live service crap. If you get an idea later, add it. Cool, but don't strip out content just to give it back later.

[@chair6313]

this game is gonna be supported for the next 10 years, i’m sure they’ll bring it back at some point.

[@wolfdragox5563]

Interested to see if they’re planning to give the weapon somekind of twist to avoid redundancy or it will be added exactly a it was we’ll have to wait and see

[@Baytuh]

Remember 10yrs for a game is a long time anything can happen between Dec 8th 2021 and 2031.

[@RoachCatJr]

this is why im not worried about the classic magnum not being in

[@andrewmeyer3599]

All I can say on the matter is that only a few games actually get longer than likely 3-4 years of support. Don't let the thought that they have years to really make it be great take over because that could backfire if they don't

[@shangothunder1055]

It's redundant; Infinite's Sandbox is aiming to be more refined.

[@doesmoes]

Is the Brute shot ever going too return? Seems like the perfect time now that we have to face the Banished. The staggering effect it had on players and vehicles while not completely overpowering them was pretty unique and the aesthetic just goes perfect with the Brutes. And remember we could use it to get to higher grounds? Amazing tool

[@jkruse05]

Pretty sure the Ravager is replacing it for Infinite.

[@sirisrex7542]

@@jkruse05 thats legitimately retarded on 343, its a fan favorite. Only 343 is so incompetent as to not reuse the wealth of assets halo has built over decades that fans actually want

[@ddsjgvk]

Brute plasma rife too

[@nooralamgir3703]

my fav weapon, gone :(

[@7thhokage87]

Covenant Carbine has been my favorite halo weapon for a very long time. It's sad to see it go after the countless hours I've spent using it

[@thornetf91]

I hope 343 don’t get too caught up with “functionality” that they make the game for competitive players first. Older Halos have some fun and whacky tools to mess with in their sandboxes. The maps too. I don’t mind competitive play, but I go back to older Halos to have fun.

[@rdowg]

Well, the skill ceiling was definitely raised with a lot of the equiptment and weapons, but (imo) theyre juuuuuust whacky enough to enjoy casually

[@thornetf91]

@@rdowg 100% My concerns went away with playing the flight.

[@corvusvocatio]

"for competitive players first" you mean halo 5?

[@kylereddy9910]

exactly; that can stay in fiesta doesn't have to be in ranked but it would be nice to have

[@NekosForever]

And here’s me crying about how they took my favorite thing Weapon Variety A weapon type for each faction Battle rifle needs a covenant counterpart, story wise these weapons have to still exist, right? I hope that this stuff stays in multiplayer I’ve thought for years that forge should have *all* the weapons ever While the main game has few and the campaign a good mix Anyway I’m still sad they took my DMR away, since I started on reach and 4, to me the DMR is the classic so, it hurts Anyway that concludes this long comment of giving my opinion while trying not to shoot an incineration cannon at you for having the exact opposite opinion as me

[@kapthas59]

pulse carbine is the covenant counterpart that actually does plasma damage instead of green skinned kinetic damage. I love to see carbine comeback but they need to do something unique about it. Maybe add a poison effect since it shoot radioactive shots by lore.

[@rinnekojin2813]

@@kapthas59 or just keep it the way it was. It was fine. It was simple. It got the job done. But no I get it, no reason at all for each faction to have a similar weapon. Not like each army needs a sniper, yep.

[@kapthas59]

@@rinnekojin2813 as I said, pulse carbine is the battlerifle counterpart. It has its unique use unlike carbine.

[@rinnekojin2813]

@@kapthas59 Pulse carbine is too flashy. It doesn't fit in. The carbine was useful and unique among the covenant weaponry. I'd rather have a weapon that has a specific use, rather than a tri-blob firing super weapon. Wich is pretty much all the covenant weaponry in infinite so far. Also no the pulse carbine is not it's counterpart in the slightest. It's not supposed to be precision, it fires globs of plasma instead of condensed. It's not a counter part to anything.

[@kapthas59]

@@rinnekojin2813 so what? Plasma rifle is too flashy? Plasma pistol is too flashy? They shot blobs too because that is actually plasma damage which the covenant, now the banished use. Carbine is not unique. It is reskin battle rifle with single fire instead of burst. From ttk, damage type to rrr, all same. No only plasma weapons in infinite shoot plasma rounds are just 3. What do you mean pulse carbine is not precision? What you even mean by precision? It is 2 burst to the head and 3 burst to body. By your logic plasma rifle was not ar counterpart? Plasma pistol is not magnum counterpart? There is no precision class anymore. Almost weapons do precision damage. And now there is kinetic damage and plasma damage. Tldr Pulse carbine is a long range plasma weapon while br is long range kinetic weapon. That is why they are counterparts, one covenant and one human. If you are trying to claim carbine is unique, then it needs its own unique damage type.

[@armstronggaming8566]

Yep, we can't have overlapping precision weapons, we can't have two shotguns, but everyone is fine with more than one sniper rifle. Sandbox purists are weird AF.

[@armstronggaming8566]

@sly dankass so they did NOTHING else right? As you said, people fail to think critically, as you seem to be doing. The reason they took out the magnum and the shotty is because 343 wanted to solidify their role in the sandbox without making other options useless. How do you design the magnum without making it useless,while keeping it from being overpowered, while also keeping the identity of the magnum. Same with the shotgun. So while 343 ponder that, enter the newer guns. Since they have no identity prior, they can be whatever 343 needs them to be. Note: the bulldog is semi-auto (but it's secretly automatic).

[@armstronggaming8566]

@sly dankass and 344 is interested in making halo good. They listen to their community. They take on feedback. And the entire premise of the new game is a return to form, something like CE, but 50x better.

[@armstronggaming8566]

@sly dankass just in case you read this, I will try to keep it concise. I don't defend 343, I try to make people see reason where once they may not have. I'm more or less impartial to 343. Anyway, sure they take out weapons, but for good reason (except for the H5 rockets). And they do care about the AI and armour, because they introduce toggles. Anyway, my last point, halo infinite being free isn't bad, give the game one last try before you give up on it.

[@armstronggaming8566]

@sly dankass MCC was built to bring all the Halo's to the Xbox one in a nice and convenient way. And at a net discount.

[@katzlover321]

@sly dankass did you even play Halo 5? It is almost impossible to make a Halo worse than 5.

[@franzgroegerrodriguez1422]

Honestly I want redundancy, the function the carbine had was giving me the option to change things up, even if only statically, so I don't get bored. Playing Infinite was a pain not only because the weapons that are there feel bad and clunky but because at every point I wished I had the cool weapons I grew up using. In the campaign I had an armory in every base, and in it the same 5 weapons, so if I'm gonna use the same ones every time, why not just pick the rocket launcher and scorpion every time. Sandox purists can go play CE for eternity if they really want their options to be barebones and limited, but halo has to grow.

[@theroguenob]

Man if the sandbox purists are so miffed about precision weapons not being unique why the fuck did they lie the heatwave, bulldog, and mangler through. They are all 1 shot then melee to kill and are all extremely strong weapons in ranked(except one isn't a power weapon)

[@Jormyyy]

Needle Rifle >>>>> Carbine any day all day As for a weapon I doubt will ever make a return; y'all remember the Missle Pods from H3? Those will likely never come back. They're just a brute shot and rocket launcher combined into a heavy turret that can be carried. As a heavy weapons enjoyer myself I rather like this weapon, but it's not gonna bother me if it never comes back.

[@mhmtakeyatime9000]

I'd like to see the needle rifle make a return with how ruby of blue rebalanced it in his mod. No bloom but slower projectile + reduced accuracy.

[@itsthemumu8585]

343: Infinite is a celebration of all the halo that came before Also 343: cuts 70% of the existing weapon sandbox

[@starmangalaxy2001]

Yeah, a halo game without even really an equivalent to the Plasma Rifle.

[@gietpudemee9155]

Honestly I rather have the Br being removed than losing the Carbine. The BR at least to me just looks and sounds boring, it's basically a gun I could see fit in any game. The Carbine sounds and looks better. It being Covenant also means it would be completely out of place in most other shooters both sound and design wise (again my opinion). Or we remove both and just bring back the Plasma Rifle and it's stun effect in full glory!

[@zavagezealot1187]

Tbh I'm sick of the Br. It has been in H2, 3, 4, and 5. And in halo 2 and 3 it is only weapon anyone uses besides the snipe and rocket. It has grown stale.

[@rendered3090]

Take care, What you say is heresy!

[@zavagezealot1187]

@@rendered3090 "is it?"

[@boogie1434]

Sadly 343 has a massive hard on for human weapons

[@zirzeus2645]

and then instead of adding a covenant presicion weapon they added the commando to the unsc

[@syjak9067]

Your comparison of the Battle RIfle and the Carbine is spot on. That's exactly how I felt about it when Halo 2 came out, and why I personally liked the Needle Rifle in Halo Reach much better.

[@MrJara1018]

But I like the carbine because it’s fun….. so I don’t give a shit about functions and sandbox balance …. Let players have fun

[@legendarymasterchief7620]

It’ll probably come back. Sooner or later after launch, it’ll probably come back like a lot of weapons.

[@LauncherSpiderMk7]

While I agree with the decision to remove a lot of these redundant weapons, it feels like the alien arsenal is going to be very lacking in comparison to the UNSC arsenal. I hope that by the actual release of the game, there'll be more alien weapons that pack a serious punch and aren't just a gimmicky version of something else.

[@DeltaNov4]

we still have to the Stalker rifle, Shock rifle and something that was leaked called dynamo grenades so we may have a decent selection.

[@eliavita]

I think they have almost the same amount of weapons with the unsc having: ar, br, commando, bulldog, sidekick, sniper, hydra, roket and frag nades as far as we know while banished have: plasma pistol, pulse carabine, sword, hammer, stalker rifle, skewer, ravager, disruptor, mangler plasma nades and spike nades.

[@LauncherSpiderMk7]

@@eliavita Didn't know about some of those. Guess I haven't watched enough gameplay footage.

[@coggnus9656]

@@LauncherSpiderMk7 Gameplay from that last flight didn’t include weapons like the stalker rifle or the disruptor. Hopefully this next flight will.

[@screech-screecher536]

@@eliavita the problem is that so far every alien weapon is a power weapon. I liked that the covenant had non power weapons for the basic troops just like the UNSC.

[@cynobi4696]

Love this. Awesome breakdown of 343's intentions for the sandbox. I will say though, part of me likes that not every weapon from older titles served a significant purpose, and not every weapon felt powerful. Like your beam rifle v binary rifle comparison, just because multiple weapons serve a similar purpose overall, doesn't make them the same and doesn't mean then player would use one in the same situations as other ones. Having more weapons that felt less unique/powerful/useful put more emphasis on map design knowledge and rewarded you for knowing where all the BRs or Snipers on the map were. I get the idea of the commando being a huge weapon class combo, but I feel like having a gun that can "do it all" removes the possibility of taking advantage of intricacies based on your unique encounters and personal play style. I would never bring a carbine to the same gunfight I would bring a BR. Maybe I'm better at rapid single fire at certain ranges than burst fire. If the commando let's everyone have every notable trait from the majority of the precision class, that feels like it's oversimplifying the sandbox to me. Of course, I know we haven't seen everything yet and there will be more weapons to come. Those are just my thoughts on subject of "sandbox purity".

[@Hifcrea]

Stated perfectly.

[@toybonniesfm]

the thing with everything being unique is that it's really boring now. even if it was redundant sometimes, there was enough small variations and changes to the point where the guns feel fresh while still being in the same weapon class

[@InnoVintage]

I don't think the SMG will come back, unless it's in its ODST form, with a focus on being a long range full auto gun. The normal SMG is mostly a holdover from halo 2, the lack of dual wielding really takes away the only unique feature of the gun.

[@SackMan039]

God I've been wanting the sticky detonator back for so long now. While a lot of H4's weapons don't interest me on a versatility/function level, the SD felt like it gave me so many options to use however I wanted to. Be it popping it on an objective, using it as a quicker stronger grenade, or turning a mongoose into a damn bomb. Would LOVE to see it make a return in some form.

[@Determ1nat1on]

It makes sense that since the dev time had been limited, 343 had focused on delivering us quality over quantity. Literally every weapon we've seen so far is quite unique in its function. Plasma Carbine is literally a Covenant version of Battle Rifle, so it makes sense that they decided to omit it for the sake any new, much exciting and unique weapon. Ascend, you made a good job at easing my pain over the loss of it.

[@JustSippingTea]

Don't forget that the plasma carbine is like a shotgun br hybrid, preferring short to medium range rather than medium to long amd the side arm as a perfect way to get a easy 1 hit headshot

[@xROJANBOx]

I'm going to miss the DMR, I loved everything about that rifle.

[@VickTijuas]

I personally hate how it breaks BTB maps by being too effective

[@bean1an143]

Me, too. Not for BTB, but I don't play BTB, so yeah.

[@Leo.23232]

its probably my least favourite weapon

[@bean1an143]

@@Leo.23232 BR fanatic.

[@Banana-Boi]

Same.

[@Leo.23232]

The plasma rifle needs to come back and work like its halo 1 version, it would be unique among the current sandbox here especially with the stun function

[@ghostney]

I'm fine with the game launching like this. If it's gonna focus on our conflict with the Banished, it makes sense that you'd see primarily UNSC and Banished weaponry. And, if Halo Infinite truly is meant to be supported for 10 years, I'm sure we'll see plenty of returning weapons over time like we did with Halo 5.

[@CyanTeamProductions]

No no no please I can’t give up hope, I am just telling myself they haven’t showed them to us yet. I can’t wait to see the plasma rifle and classic shotgun again. Please please please god.

[@wolfdragox5563]

Plasma rifle might have a chance, but for launch at least, don’t expect the classic shotgun to return, its not gonna happen.

[@CyanTeamProductions]

@@wolfdragox5563 NO NO NO PLEASE HAVE FAITH!!! WHAT DO YOU MEAN MAGIC RINGS WILL KILL US??!! I WILL GO TO HEAVEN!!

[@eanmcfarland6339]

@@CyanTeamProductions they already said the bulldog will take its place for a while

[@CyanTeamProductions]

@@eanmcfarland6339 SILENCE HERETIC!

[@wolfdragox5563]

@@CyanTeamProductions don’t overdose yourself in copium bro ✋😓

[@henryalberts539]

This is ironically why, while I love the H2 Carbine most, I think the H4/5 Carbines (as well as the DMR and the 4 LR) actually have the best-defined roles in the sandbox. I know you talked about how they compare to the BR, but I’d argue those games actually made subtle alterations to ensure each was best at a certain range. Carbine at short-mid range, BR at mid-range, DMR at mid-long range, and LR at long-extreme range.

[@Pine0wlple]

I’ve always loved the Carbine the most out of all the Mid-Tier precision weapons, but I also understand that it is the black sheep of the family. Do I want it to return? Yeah, of course! Do I think it will return? No, likely not. Same with the SMG, the black sheep of automatics, while automatics are the black sheep of the sandbox. I love it and want it to return, but I don’t think it will and I understand and accept that.

[@optiTHOMAS]

Yeah I love the SMG too! I really love the old one with the caseless side mounted magazine! Good stuff!

[@wisecrack3461]

Maybe they'll get added as Assault Rifle variants? There is a system currently in place for getting different models for your weapons

[@starhammer5247]

I like ODST's SMG. Alongside its Magnum.

[@SeventhPlacePace]

The carbine was God tier in halo 2. Factions having guns that are similar but different makes sense.

[@asddsdsssd]

Id rather have 3 weapons doing the same job but with a different twist and asthetic. Freshens up the sandbox in a way that isn't purely centered around functionality. Carbine was fun to shoot, looked good, sounded good, and was a nice change from using a BR 95% of the time.

[@yetticuda]

Carbine has always been my favorite weapon. It’s always been the fasted single shot weapon. When using a trigger stop it was deadly. Yeah I know you touched on this. But I feel it was a viable weapon.

[@theundeadriot4362]

From a sandbox perspective, I completely agree, there are too many guns that overlap each other when it comes to roles to be played in the sandbox, but from a world-building perspective, I love the amount of variety of firearms that are in the world, but to call myself out I love games with too many firearms as it is, because it allows no two firefights to ever be the same and it keeps you on your feet while playing.

[@CMTechnica]

You don't get that latter part with Halo though. It's a competitive shooter, throwing more weapons that have the same range is just going to co fuse players when trying to figure out what they're getting hit by It's why Reach and the original trilogy had *every* weapon sound unique, for sound recognition.

[@DeltaNov4]

This video shows how how I argued with people about the classic magnum how it was just a dmr with pistol skin and people only care aboyt snad box purity only with weapons the dislike and how anything with nostalgia gets a free pass from criticism in their mindset.

[@11ducksinatrenchcoat76]

Yeah, the sidekick fills a much better role and works way better as a starting weapon.

[@DeltaNov4]

@@11ducksinatrenchcoat76 yeah plus people said to give teb side kick the lassic magnhm model for it but it legit feels weird having a weapon model that's used to be a god canon for something functions the opposite of that.

[@Orinslayer]

The needle rifle is basically the halo CE magnum but with needler detonation and a slightly higher zoom. Just hold the trigger down and melt people, but we all know they both fire faster tap fired anyways.

[@DeltaNov4]

@@Orinslayer Yeah and even though I love the DMR and Needle Rifle over the BR and Magnum I still have to accept the fact they can't coexist with the BR without redudacy or result changing them entirely so they may never comeback in Infinite, that's what I hate that my favorite weapons are gone but I have to accept that it's not healthy for the sandbox and might create redundancy problems.

[@rinnekojin2813]

The CE magnum fired 12.7×40mm M225 Semi-Armor-Piercing High-Explosive rounds. That's higher than a .50 cal magnum. I see no reason for it do any less damage than it did. The BR and DMR fired weaker bullets. The Magnum was great but limited by it's small mag and slow reload time. Halo two then proceed to have a low dmg speedy Gonzales. Kind of like the Sidekick but it does decent damage.

[@domvasta]

Fuel rod gun should make a comeback. we need a faster firing lower damage version of the rocket launcher, the ability to put 5 rounds on target super quickly was fun, either that or bring back the charge fire version of the Hydra.

[@reaperoes9545]

im a huge fan of the carbine even if its considered redundant. A gun that i think wouldnt be redundant that was scrapped for now is the og shotgun. The bulldog is not the one tapping close range anti melee powerweapon destroyer that the og shotgun was and i think it has a place in this game. The shock rifle is borderline powerweapon though so idk how theyre gonna mess around with that.

[@Graveminds]

Yeah, but the old shotgun in this game wouldn't work. Players are too fast, the maps arnt designed for it. It would be useless.

[@stupidflandrs4856]

FIRST Great stuff as usual. 343's chewing of the fat in Infinite should make the multiplayer sandbox a lot more interesting than ever before

[@AscendHyperion]

Yeah I do think it's going to be some years before people really start to appreciate how fleshed out Infinites gameplay experience is. There was so much meticulous decision making poured into this sandbox.

[@cheeseman6016]

You weren't first lol

[@stupidflandrs4856]

@@AscendHyperion A part of it might be that in previous Reclaimer games, 343 was too focused on putting the extended lore and universe first (hence why you needed like 10 different books to understand H5's campaign), so they insisted on making 3 types of each weapon (1 human, 1 Cov, 1 Promethean), but now they're remembering that Halo is a video game first and a sci-fi universe second, so having redundant guns for every faction is no longer a priority.

[@AscendHyperion]

I dunno if that is the reason, especially not in Halo 5, which has one of the most well-curated and balanced weapon sandboxes of any Halo game, almost in-spite of itself. I think they just took all the energy they put into developing Halo 5's really flat power-curve into developing Halo Infinites function vs power relationship. So to say, Halo 5 had so many redundant weapons because the power balance supported it, which in a way is an achievement. We've seen COD get this wrong for nearly two decades.

[@sage_thunderleaf487]

You are very quickly becoming my favorite Halo content creator. Everytime I see a new video, I know I'm not going to be disappointed

[@AL4RC0NR4MO5]

I think you're definitely right about 343's philosophy. In terms of pure gameplay, it's a good thing because it really focuses weapons down. However, I definitely think many classic guns will get added back, even if they are just "the BR but for the Covenant" like the Carbine. This is just because of the long content roadmap 343 have. They've started with quality, by streamlining the sandbox to its core. Adding quantity after that, just for nostalgia is a win-win, because people like me love it, people like me enjoy the design differences, and very subtly different strengths and weaknesses. For example, I prefer using the Needle Rifle in Reach's campaign, because the supercombine effect (which is redundant in MP) really makes a difference when dealing with enemies like Brutes

[@AscendHyperion]

I will confidently assert that if 343 wanted to actually "tough-it-out" and only add back weapons with the most unique function, the two that could get the golden ticket are the Needle Rifle and the Halo 4 Light Rifle.

[@Windjammer19]

@@AscendHyperion I'd argue that the H5 Light Rifle is more unique because of its empowered "alt-fire". You basically have a HCE Magnum when zoomed in, but can lose it because of de-scope. In fact they can bring back the burst fire for hip and keep the stronger single fire for ADS.

[@rucianfirefall489]

I thought the SMG was made rather unique with the silencer in ODST, it still has a place in the sandbox to me

[@TheLastArbiter]

I don’t want the covenant weapons to feel like human weapons. I want them to feel like Covenant weapons! GIVE ME MY PLASMA RIFLE. Not these stupid storm rifle or pulse carbine AR clones.

[@hulkbustermark5830]

Halo CE version should return as it’s the only unique variant

[@hiwrenhere]

The DMR as a standard load out weapon was a MISTAKE!

[@eodyn7]

I hate the DMR

[@wolfdragox5563]

@@eodyn7 i love the DMR

[@Leo.23232]

@@eodyn7 agreed

[@SoulessBeard]

I truly believe there needs to be weapons of the same class or role for all factions (unsc, covenant, banished, promethean). Yes, they're redundant, but wouldn't all factions have those weapons to fill a niche in war?

[@torb-no]

Why? It’s a game. Variery and uniqeness is fun, sameness is boring.

[@SoulessBeard]

@@torb-no My point exactly. I want a variety of weapons to choose from instead of being forced to choose the same gun every single time my play style.

[@torb-no]

@@SoulessBeard I feel like having equivalent weapons for factions (having it such they're able to match each other) is how we lost the Plasma Rifle for the Storm Rifle (an uninteresting version of the AR) or how we got the entire promothean arsenal which are just orange versions of human weapons. Contrast that to either CE or the upcoming Infinite where we have true *gameplay variety*. The weapons are truly different. Making the sandbox designers make sure every faction have equivalents distracts them from creating truly unique weapons in my opinion. I an appreciate the wish for aesthetic variety on the similarly functioning weapons, but can't that be better done with weapon skins?

[@sirisrex7542]

@@torb-no weapon skins don't contribute to the worldbuilding aspects variety provides, which is important for immersion and makes the game more fun. i don't get this purist need to keep halo's sandbox so rigid, some overlap is necessary to keep the game interesting. it's like 343 constantly caters to the autists content with using the BR only, theres nothing wrong with adding a needle rifle, carbine or a selection of weapons in the same class in case i want to switch my style up

[@Loansome_]

I feel like maybe they could bring back most if not all of the weapons from the past, whether they impact the sandbox or not. Realistically, in game, we may only ever see a handful of weapons used in multiplayer, but for sandbox and forge/custom game modes, I could see there being at least some use to bringing nearly everything back. It would be fun to play gamemodes in Infinite where you play on Halo 2 maps with Halo 2 weapons for instance, but for regular gameplay I also wouldn't expect much deviation from the approach we're seeing now.

[@amithabraham2224]

Here's my thoughts about the weapons: The one thing Halo 5 has over any other game is the fact that (for the most part) it had the most weapons and variants, giving each faction a weapon with a utility with their own flavor and sense of identity. Edit: my comment was getting more attention recently, so i wanted to add this: I know it's a huge ask for any company to do this, but if 343i added all the weapons, equipment, vehicles, and powerups from all the games and put it into infinite, i feel like there is more variety to become the spartan you always wanted to be. A/n and/or personal request: i hope they bring the military police helmet, the nightfall helmet and armor in infinite, that would be amazing! I also feel the military police armor is long overdue for it's own unique armor too ngl

[@wesfoster1178]

I understand what you're saying. However I like variety. Sometimes I want chicken on my nachos instead of beef, but it's still nachos. Sometimes I want a Coke instead of Dr. Pepper.

[@ClaytonMathisVO]

I miss the SAW. Yeah yeah it's kinda redundant but it was just so satisfying to shred enemies, especially in MP.

[@SSGLGamesVlogs]

Jesus, what's left?

[@ClaytonMathisVO]

@@SSGLGamesVlogs nothing from Halo 4 is returning from what I've seen. No nade launchers too.

[@phlemtaco6623]

@@ClaytonMathisVO we've only seen the tech demo though, how do we know they're not returning?

[@Leo.23232]

its not redundant, wdym, it doesn't serve the same role as the assault rifle, its meant to be a power weapon

[@badbirdkc]

Halo fans: "You see, variety is actually a bad thing."

[@darkharder6190]

I understand the concept of being a purist but was always annoyed when guns were removed or added, not for multiplayer but for the lore. Like why are elites and hackers using these needle rifles in reach then all of a sudden using carbines in the 2 and 3. Just the lack of consistency annoys me. Same with the lack of the most iconic weapon (the AR) in halo 2. If it were up to me I’d have every gun that we’ve ever seen in any FPS halo and out it in infinite. Maybe not in matchmaking but at least have it for customs and maybe even a special fiesta playlist. But for sure have everything in campaign somewhere

[@bean1an143]

You called the Sniper Jackals hackers XD!

[@sirisrex7542]

straight up, so annoying how this series constantly makes amazing assets then ditches them the next game. ive been getting edged by halo for decades, just lemme nut 343

[@SamanthaLaurier]

As someone who doesn't care about multiplayer and only plays campaigns... I really miss the Carbine. It was always my favorite weapon to pick up, I loved using it.

[@bagofdoughnutsvinny1574]

Carbine and light rifle were two of my favorites. I don’t see how more options are not better than less? They both also function alot different from the BR witch seams to be the only precision rifle left since the DMR is gone too. 😪

[@m_hall]

Wait they actually removed the carbine? It"s supposed to be equivalent to the BR but just add variety and some nuance. I'd like to see it return as dlc if it's not in the game at launch.

[@VickTijuas]

I personally don’t care about weapon redundancy I welcome all Halo weapons coming back they just have to balance which weapons go where in Infinite maps

[@sterlingarcher74]

I always loved the carbine rifle. I love how all the covenant weapons have that “sci-fi” feel to them. It was a solid weapon in PvP and it was the perfect weapon to use in Campaign/Firefight to mow down the grunts and jackals with 1-2 shots. From a lore perspective, the gun has a place in the game as an alien DMR and it should be interchangeable with the BR from a player perspective. That being said, if they do plan on adding weapons in the future, it would make sense that they wouldn’t include the Carbine at launch. They want a variety of different weapons so it doesn’t FEEL like we’re using the same 2 guns every match. In a few years, I bet they will have added the Carbine, the classic Magnum and the old SMG from Halo 3 into the multiplayer.

[@Jebus678]

Weapon roles is imo a detriment to an enjoyable sandbox. The game has factions. Each faction should have equivalent weapons. If you dont like the look and aesthetics of the Battle rifle, having a choice to pick something else with essentially the same function Is objectively a positive thing. This would also ultimately mean we wont get the SMG, because a lot of people falsely assume it carries the same role as the AR. Which is a crying shame.

[@johnpertwee9121]

Out of curiosity what would you label as the primary differnces between the AR and SMG?

[@Jebus678]

At the top of my head the SMG has: Shorter effective range. By extension of that less accuracy and larger spread. Also higher rate of fire and larger magazine size. Saying they're filling the same role, to me, is the same as saying the turret and the AR fill the same role. Theres clear performance differences. Really the only similarity is being automatic.

[@ThelVadam7777]

Me sad because caebine is one of my most favorite weapons of all times

[@tr3ntn821]

Something I would love to continue on is the grenade launcher, this thing was awesome with taking out troops and disabling vehicles. But you needed skill to use it. Maybe it will be in Infinite soon, but I was proud when 343 brought it back in Halo 5

[@gfyGoogle]

The Grenade Launcher really was an outstanding addition. Versatile and required skill to use. I’d love to see it come back but the Cindershot is kinda similar in some ways.

[@Visual217]

I feel like you've missed a huge point on why some "redundant" Covie weapons came to be, like the Carbine, come Halo 2. Given that you could play as Arbiter, you would need your own set of somewhat similarly functional weaponry so you weren't confined to just the plasma pistol/rifle & needler. I think you're arguing against opposite ends of the spectrum regarding the sandbox: the people who were upset that Halo 5 made every weapon a hyper lethal CoD gun are not automatically the same people who are mad that lore clone weapons exist that function similarly. It's really nice to have some close variants of one another, it would just be best if the weapon sandbox actually had clearly defined roles given to the weapon types like it did in the past.

[@joshpaulson9607]

Hyperion is great, but my problem with him is that he labels everyone as one thing. For example, I like Sandbox Purism but I also like the Beam rifle. That’s not hypocrisy, because I didn’t form my option entirely on purism. I also like beam rifle because it makes sense that the covenant would have a sniper weapon, because it allows me to hold two sniper rifles at once (a Beam and a UNSC). Also, I grew up with Halo 2. In my eyes the positives of having a beam rifle over weigh it’s redundancy. The Promethean equivalent doesn’t do that because I didn’t like how it looked, and the purpose of having another sniper to hold had already been filled and I wasn’t a fan of Prometheans in general. That doesn’t make me a hypocrite, that just means my opinion has been formed by several different factors. Just because my ideas don’t seem perfectly consistent to you, doesn’t mean they aren’t or that I’m dishonest.

[@geoshark12]

My only worry it it would be weird seeing alien races wielding human weapons because heres only one sniper

[@gcwishbone]

Carbine (reworked) or DMR should appear as a semiauto longer range option than BR. Good sniper counter. I think the DMR was sufficiently different regarding range, carbine could be reworked if we want another banished weapon. Although it'd have to be renamed.... While a lot of weapons aren't necessary hopefully they're integrated over time for slight variations forgers could choose from.

[@WozViral]

Well i'll miss the carbine because it's one of my favorite weapons in Halo, but I'm glad that 343 take out all the redundancy in the sandbox Since Halo 2 I was always asking myself "what's the purpose of the carbine beside being a Covenant equivalent of the BR? why should I pick it up on the ground when I'm already spawning with a Battle Rifle and have all the supply ammo I want (does not apply to normal slayer tho I can understand the purpose of picking it up there)" And I can say bungie tried to fixed that with Reach by adding some supercombine stuff into it, but then Halo 4 came out and... 4 precision weapons? What's the purpose they're all doing the same stuff? 2 shotgun? 3 automatic weapons? 3 Sniper rifles? 3 Rocket launcher? I like the fact that they're equivalent of weapons for each factions but in game it doesn't feel different enough, so I'm glad they're on an other path for the weapon sandbox

[@alexanderrobins7497]

They do seem redundant unless playing missions like The Arbiter/Oracle, Gravemind, Uprising, and The Great Journey which had little or no UNSC weapons. I don’t mind redundancy in the campaign, and it is pretty easy to NOT spawn with or have certain weapons in matchmaking maps.

[@Windjammer19]

You answered your own question. Factions. Covies need snipers too. The problem is that the Carbine wasn't unique enough. It should have been a plasma-type that "never has to reload" or it's radioactive rounds should have cause passive damage or something.

[@WozViral]

@@alexanderrobins7497 yeah don't mind in campaign too, was talking multiplayer perspective, like pulling up in BR Slayer on Guardians in Halo 3 and just see the Carbine here and i'm just watching it like "why?"

[@alexanderrobins7497]

@@WozViral I agree. Simple solution: don’t add redundant weapons in matchmaking.

[@Windjammer19]

@@WozViral I think the solution there is to forge out redundant weapons for team BRs and replace them with a different, more specialized weapon or just another BR for ammo's sake.

[@tannerhoke]

I’m confident Infinite will have a plethora of “legacy” weapons in certain multiplayer modes. But I’m glad 343 is cleaning the sandbox.

[@Mark_Aaron]

Well given that the carbine is my favorite primary weapon in halo, I'm pretty upset. Plus I don't like the feel of the pulse. I feel like the carbine would've fit nicely in infinite since it wouldve been the only semi automatic primary weapon. We now have 2 fully automatics and 2 bursts. Not to mention the sheer amount of UNSC weaponry that dominates the sandbox now. Also, this will likely hurt the campaign. What are jackal snipers supposed to use since it seems the carbine and the beam rifle are gone? You can see the pulse shots coming a mile away. Enemy variety in general is going to severely lacking.

[@KO-i343]

shock rifle or the red beam rifle one w/e it's called

[@thorveim1174]

I think the carbine was replaced more by the stalker rifle than the Commando...

[@kingjyk]

I agree with having this ‘purity’ for a more streamlined game but honestly I love the carbine for its looks. One of my favourite guns aesthetic wise and would love to see it in this game. The pulse rifle sadly doesn’t compare as it doesn’t have the same capsule reload

[@h0gheadS]

I really hope there's no spartan laser. That thing ruined vehicle combat in every map it's ever been implemented.

[@imza5535]

Yeah it's hard to play when there is tank on the other side of Valhalla getting a running riot. And there is no Splaser.

[@h0gheadS]

@@imza5535 There should be anti-vehicle options like rockets, grenades, mines and EMP weapons. Pardon me if I don't find a 1-shot, anti-everything weapon with unlimited range very balanced.

[@bflet]

@@imza5535 they should remove each splaser, and replace it with two rocket spawns. More power weapons, and it doesnt feel cheesy because they actually have to aim/predict the rocket to kill you, as opposed to hiding behind a rock, charging, then popping out for one second and insta-killing you.

[@imza5535]

@@h0gheadS you are pardoned

[@imza5535]

@@bflet that actually sounds like it might work. Now it just comes down to trying to get it which is pretty much every halo match.

[@creepyclown7547]

This has been my thoughts on the sandbox. 343i finally understands that faction equivalents aren’t the way. It was nice to have a covie precision on H2 of course. But that’s not the current case and I’m glad it’s not being treated as just needing an equivalent. Every weapon has played so uniquely and I’m excited to see what else we get to play with in the next flight. This is going to be one of the most profound Halo Sandboxes yet

[@ScaleTail1101]

The reason faction equivalents exist is for campaign enemy variety. Notice how H2 had much better Elite encounter variety when it had the Carbine, over CE which only had the Plasma Rifle.

[@thecookiemeister5374]

alright, answer me this question: Does the Covenant, use the Commando?

[@ScaleTail1101]

@@thecookiemeister5374 It is confirmed that Brutes will use human weapons, probably including the Commando, but I personally think there won't be that many of them.

[@thecookiemeister5374]

@@ScaleTail1101 and guess what? It’s gonna look kinda dumb. alien weapons are made for alien hands, human weapons are not. Remember the brutes have like 5x our mass. It’ll be like they’re shooting us with toys.

[@Iridescent_Astraea]

@@thecookiemeister5374 To be fair, Brutes aren't exactly weapon purists like the old covenant, and it makes sense that they'd use whatever they get their hands on. Now, I would like it if it was varied and included vehicles too, but I'm not gonna bet on it

[@joshcarson2879]

I know functionally it was replaced with the Skewer (and I am absolutely loving the Skewer), but I really do miss the Spartan Laser. I've had some crazy moments with the Spartan Laser in previous games.

[@3OHT.]

Hear me out: weapon specific maps. Not every map needs BRs. Not every map needs a sword. You could have maps with a sniper spawn, and a _different_ map with a beam rifle spawn. I have no idea why they haven't capitalized on this already.

[@Ricardo2-dsm]

Maybe because the beam rifle and sniper rifle are the exact same thing with barely any difference?

[@3OHT.]

@@Ricardo2-dsm I think you replied to the wrong person, they _are_ almost identical weapons

[@ishitrealbad3039]

I just want my OG one handed plasma rifle back, fuel rod cannon and the brute spike pistol..... I really do not care about any of the other new guns....

[@midoripeco]

I really gonna miss the carbine. It's my favorite halo weapon of all time and was always my go to weapon in each game it was in so I'm sad to see it go

[@corbettevans7483]

Despite my love for it, I don’t think the concussion rifle is coming back. The Ravager is already a pseudo grenade launcher like it and we are most likely going to be getting the Brute Shot back, so bye bye Concussion Rifle.

[@Darren_Xero]

There's also plasma caster, no? It might come back in some form, since the Banished use both that & Brute shot

[@corbettevans7483]

@@Darren_Xero True, it might. That is a possibility. But I never played Halo 5 so I don't really know much about the Plasma Caster gameplay wise.

[@randomtslur]

Different guns from halo in the past overlapped too much I'm glad infinite is taking this step.

[@Ricardo2-dsm]

Me too!

[@DeltaNov4]

its shows how people think nostolgia gives everything a pass.

[@F-aber]

i miss the dmr so much

[@justinscozzarro1165]

I always loved the spiker as kid. I know it has a slow fire rate, but man does it hit like truck Melee damage wise

[@enriqueestrada3456]

Yes! More fresh baked quality content.

[@nathankryder7967]

I’ve noticed how they’ve made the weapons unique in their own way, but there’s some that I’m concerned about not being in the game since they are unique in their own way from past halos. The first that I thought of was the brute shot. It was special since you could use it for its knock-back to make the enemy stumble from attacking back. The second that came to my mind was the Mantis vehicle. It may seem like another version of the scorpion, but unlike the tank, the mantis succeeds where the scorpion and wraith fails. It dominates indoors or in caves with more mobility while a tank may be too big to fit. It also has its stomp ability which can counter getting swarmed on. My last one is the hologram decoy for equipment. It works to confuse the enemy while stealth is used to straight up ambush someone. This is just my opinion though. Anyone else got a weapon they feel is actually unique but missing in the game?

[@TheUnseenSoldier]

Ummm, Wtf is wrong with weapons from different factions having similarities? “Redundancy” is not an excuse for ditching the covie carbine. From a military perspective, different weapons from different military forces are going to realistically have similarities. Development of those different military doctrines are going to lead to the production of different weapons that more or less fulfill a similar role. Bungie executed this perfectly with the BR vs Covie Carbine in Halo 3. They both were crafted in a way that made them functional in the same role, yet unique in the way they operate. What other bad news are we going to get? The M7 SMG is getting cut because it’s “functionally too similar to the Assault Rifle” and therefore, “redundant”? Smh

[@EFSpartan]

Absolutely agreed man. What the fuck is OP on about?

[@masoclevine836]

because this whole issue is not looked at form a lore perspective you people LMAO, i really don't get people who try to apply real life military concepts instead of discussing the sandbox with sandbox concepts

[@EFSpartan]

@@masoclevine836 because...halo has a Campaign...and that's what I give a shot about. If they made just a multiplayer only game it isn't halo, it's fortnight.

[@TheUnseenSoldier]

@@masoclevine836 Halo is a STORY. You should always apply some degree of “real life military concepts” to any story depicting military conflict, because it gives LIFE to that story. To make a story engaging, it must me relatable, and to make it relatable, it must have some layer of reality. If all you care about is the “player sandbox” and avoiding even the smallest level of “redundancy” gtfo of my halo and go play some Fortnight. I mean ffs, with that logic, We already have the banshee, the wasp is too similar! It’s redundant! It’s bad for the sandbox! We better get rid of it! God forbid two different military factions have doctrines that lead them to having similar assets! You can’t argue my logic, if you follow that same line of reasoning, then there would be a long ass laundry list of shit getting cut from the game.

[@Cherub-vl9bc]

Carabine and needler Best weapons of all videogames