Ashes of Creation Tank PROBLEM 🛡️

[@Nyce-Gaming]

One like is all it takes to keep tanks from filing for xp bankruptcy

[@jhedges8301]

Tank here, always die first, always get less total exp from a grinding group, never leave with glint, always leave with a huge repair bill. Feels bad. The grapple chain skill is so fucking buggy.

[@Blathnaid_AOC]

100%

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@jhedges8301 i mentioned in description I think, but considered putting this in the video: we are so much more vulnerable to xp debt as we rely theee most on our teammates. Our repair bills and Xp debt a lot more frequent and we need gear the most

[@jhedges8301]

​@@Nyce-Gamingliked and commented for the algorithm, hope they see this

[@Erumyr]

Well, they can’t do shit without u so.. at lvl 50, nobody is soloing 3star mobs. Also, a guild will gear you first, unless it’s sucks

[@Cerxen]

​@@Erumyr both are true to an extent, but a group can run without a tank as long as the healer is good. Not a thing you normally see in mmos.

[@auronchernobog7460]

I might be in the minority but I'm gonna keep saying this until i'm blue in the face. I want tanks to have more control over the battlefield. Give them auras, control abilities, etc and stop making them taunt/aggro focused. Yes, I know they need to have aggro but this can be baked in to those auras and control. This at least gives them more viability in PvP.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@auronchernobog7460 I like tank in PvP but yea I agree in that I want to see more control. Some snares and immobilization for sure

[@DT-hb3zu]

I don't play tank, but it's my understanding (and what I like about pvp tank) that tanks who taunt an enemy will take full damage from that enemy, and if that enemy attacks someone else, they don't do full damage. I thought that was a great approach. Is that not how it works?

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@DT-hb3zu correct. that’s how it works

[@auronchernobog7460]

@@DT-hb3zu I haven't tried Tank yet so I can't say for sure. In either event, that's fine for PvE but still does little in PvP which is where tanks have little control in.

[@lolcat5303]

Well as long as they're not also doing high damage, near or comparable to dps, on top of having very high base survivability and lots of control. Seen that problem with tanks in other games and it's just not fun, so hopefully intrepid will get the balance right.

[@EZeast1]

The most unpopular opinion is I wish active block was gone. Doing test this block does nothing. If I block or don’t block I still have a chance to block the damage at the same rate. Fighting anything that debuffs I still take the effect if I block or don’t. I understand it’s an alpha but I feel like I do more dodging as it’s more beneficial than blocking.

[@dylonnichols539]

Just played tank in the little one day stress test they did yesterday 12/18 as I have decided I’m gonna tank for my guild in phase 2. (Was Cleric in Phase 1). Got to level 8 in about four hours (1PM - 5PM). I’ve seen people complaining about pre level 10 leveling from the tank and also complaints even about pre level 5 solo leveling. I managed to get to level 5 in under 3 hours and was about 75% of the way through before I hit lvl 6 all solo just doing some aoe grinding, early quests and commissions. The only groups I hopped into were to kill the goblin mage and the tormented spirit for the Samia’s Hope commissions. So only two groups in total just to kill those two mobs. Honestly, the aoe grind was very satisfying. As long as I was fighting mobs my level I was able to clear 3-4 mobs by myself (avoiding things like arsonists and what not that have huge magic nukes). At lvl 6 some of my guildies came on and we started farming bears, then zombie invokers, then Minotaurs before finally catching the Minotaur event. I’m not sure what everyone’s gripe is about with early tank leveling. I have no experience with higher lvls of tank gameplay so I’m not going to speak on that but so far the pre level 10 experience has been incredibly enjoyable. Even more enjoyable for me than the cleric which I had a ton of fun with. I participated in last nights lvl 25 boost PvP test they did at lions hold and had a similarly fun experience. The lack of gear was rough because I ran out of mana incredibly fast but the CC and mitigation I was able to provide was awesome. Didn’t die a single time and made plenty of ash piles. Obviously the experience will be different when I and everyone else is properly geared, but I have found the tank very fun. I do agree with the damage numbers a little bit in regards to vengeance and incinerating strikes. I basically decided to just not even bother with incinerating strikes as it is useless. But, you gain courage so fast that popping vengeance here and there in the rotation feels ok enough. Especially with shield assault granting basically a free vengeance. It’s not the go to ability of course but it helps with the dps a bit. And it splashes too. Also, as a dwarf, I quite like the immersion of it being some angry little dwarf head butting and bashing my enemies’ kneecaps. I’ll keep feeling out the class as I level up in phase 2, but for the day that I played it I thought it felt fine and the leveling felt on par with everyone around me. I found very few people more than a level or two ahead of me throughout the 6 hour playtest.

[@dylonnichols539]

I did die a few times but that was mostly due to limit testing. The first death was me at lvl 4 seeing if I could handle two lvl 6 highwaymen. Definitely could not but that’s ok. Died to a one shot from the tormented spirit but understandable because I don’t have much mitigation yet aside from grit and had all lvl 1 gear. Other deaths were just me being really dumb like at gemspring I kept running into the poison from the Mycellites and ticking to death. Even with the xp debt from this I still leveled just fine in a short span of time.

[@definitelynotadam]

7:40 I actually like that knee / headbutt attack from the fantasy perspective, but the usability, the cost / return ratio doesn't check out. The temp HP shield generated is barely anything.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

Understandable, but yea if they keep it ; it definitely needs quite a buff for sure

[@this_smitty23]

Hate the animation and the sound effect annoys the hell out of me. I only use it prior to shield slam if at all. It needs a significant buff or complete rework. It’s not worth the cost of courage in pretty much all scenarios outside the one he discussed.

[@thatAKredneck]

I figured the reason for tomahawk was for PVP as a defense for getting kited or people just running away to heal or escape. Great insights, I have only played Tank

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@thatAKredneck yea that’s my thoughts on tomahawk too. I just wish it wasn’t another trip. Snare or immobilize will feel better here considering the other trips 😕

[@MrSpetzz]

@@Nyce-Gaming Bola instead :)

[@relhaz4326]

The behind thing is also kinda weird. If you are being kited, chances are they aren't 100% back turned to you and running. They are probably half-turned and shooting

[@TheCopiumClinic]

Agreed, the early leveling experience seems catered for ranged DPS right now.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@TheCopiumClinic yea I don’t feel like a tank having to s key with a bow

[@MissManslayer]

im pretty sure ur supposed to trip them, then roll to their back and tomahawk to stack the trips....at least thats what do. stack the cc and adds damage, toma is a slept on skill.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@MissManslayer I wouldn’t say it’s slept on. You definitely works that way to stack your second trip. Essentially same thing I do with reflect trip into tremoring trip. It’s a decent ability but there’s too many trips in the kit imo

[@MissManslayer]

@@Nyce-Gaming right because i don't think you can reflect, into tremoring, then toma? it will give CC immunity after the second. if they allow 3 CCs so you can do the full chain TOMA value goes thru the roof.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@ you still get the 2 trip cc limit. Tbf the trip into tomahawk flank trip is more dependable. I’m just a sucker for reflect lol

[@MissManslayer]

@@Nyce-Gaming trust the reflect parry is my fav skill in the whole game xD

[@relhaz4326]

@@Nyce-Gaming Reflect trip -> grapple makes the grapple much more reliable :)

[@Mr.Nubtastic]

Cleric here. My feedback for cleric is to give it more DPS options that they'd have to give up some healing to obtain. As it is now, there is only one real role with very little in the way of variation in how to play it - same as can said with all of the archetypes in general. Yes, secondaries and the like will help give us more options, but the base kits themselves should still have more variations to build through. I mean, it is the 1st half of our leveling experiences after all. I want to be a cleric who is focused on being the wrath of the divine one. Whether that's through more DPS options in the tree, some actual weapon abilities other than just procs to add to basic attacks, or some other way that the creative devs at Intrepid can come up with. "And You Will KNOW my name is the NUB when I lay my vengeance upon thee!!!"

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@Mr.Nubtastic well said haha. I agree and would like to see the death side of cleric. Maybe the wave that does damage and healing gets an optional upgrade that allows for more damage at expense of healing capability. Little things like that so they aren’t all weapon combo dependent

[@apollyon23456]

I agree with you on most of these points, with the exception of your take on supernatural grit, and tomahawk. S. G already takes a skill point, and grit itself already has a built in way to reduce the penalty to damage. Generally speaking, as a tank you're in plate, meaning the bonus from S.G, while nice, isn't ground breaking. It doesn't need more incentives for us not to take it lol. And tomahawk, while at first i was also questioning of, is just ridiculous. Combined with Tremoring strike, that's 6 seconds of hard cc (though it ends up being more like 5.2 with diminishing returns) which gives you plenty of time for a pretty much auto crit pulverize, and your bard friend to roll in and silence your unfortunate victim, locking them down even longer. This is usually a death sentence. I would add as a wish list, Slam, just doesn't feel good atm. Visually, its such a slow animation, it feels so weak. Like my character is just going, ehhh. Add on to it that the knockback it gives when upgraded is basically nothing, and as the tank, ends up just being a waste of a point, since they're right back on you a second later. Also, charge, while an awesome ability i love, the upgrade to it when i tested it really feels lackluster. I get the idea, but we just don't see player density to the point i need to knockback people to charge through them, i just kinda bounce my way through them as i glance off of their collision.

[@yoggisen]

The note about the shake it off skill - YES YES and YES :). Great review of the tank.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@yoggisen thank youuu !

[@Mionikoi]

Mage main here. I feel like a lot of mage abilities are very stand alone and as far as I am aware, don't really compliment other classes. I feel like it could, just that it doesn't at the moment. Perhaps because I haven't yet specced into 'enchant weapon.' I hope in the feature, even if mages are mostly pure damage dealers we set up for other classes to really take advantage of our command over the elements.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@Mionikoi yea besides it’s raw DPS and elemental weapon it doesn’t bring much in pve

[@lolcat5303]

Would be cool. Should at the very least have some utility to empower other casters.

[@allthatishere]

Every time I hear Shake it off I think of the shout skill from GW1 and 2. And I remember in the Heart of Thorns expansion people thinking the Dragonhunter elite spec was a terrible name, tho I had no issue with it. "Tank" is just too on the nose for a class name.

[@Ca11eponken]

Great video Nyce! Happy to see that you nailed some of the thoughts I have had as well as a player that usually mains a tank class in MMOs. I saw someone else write about vengeance animation being cool but overall being a crappy skill and I agree with that, I kind of like "lore-wise" how the tank refers to dirty fighting when acting out his vengeance is alright though. Something else I'd love to see in the game with the tank is something similar to WoW's revenge or Sword and Board skill: whenever you dodge, parry or block you get a proc of a skill that is otherwise not available. This could for example be combined with vengeance where each tier/stack of vengeance increase a damage reduction of the enemy's damage. An upgraded version of vengeance could then be that you have a stun/trip on the third tier/stack. This would of course not make it a good level one skill but I think it would be an awesome addition to the tank which makes the gameplay more interactive woth breaking rotations in favour of reacting to a proc. Keep up the good work ✌️

[@Nyce-Gaming]

I love this suggestion. Vengeance was my favorite bread n butter skill of prot warrior

[@flamingyeti]

I am an avid tank in all MMOs i play. I think the current way the tank plays feels pretty good for a base level. It definitely needs 1 or 2 more mitigation tools (a short duration long cooldown invulnerability ignore everything would be good sauce), it really needs some more hard CC the CC "status" effects are very lackluster and dont have much impact as they stand.

[@randomtvninja]

I'm finally getting to play the game this Friday, and I'm really excited for the tank class even with its negatives I'm excited, i hope they give the tank some more love but i honestly can't wait till i can spec into being a cleric tank or maybe a fighter tank.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@randomtvninja it’s truly a fun archetype to be honest. I enjoy it, just wanted to highlight some areas of improvements. I’m looking at tank-cleric for immortality! Lol

[@randomtvninja]

@@Nyce-Gaming yea tank is one of my all time favorite builds along with fighters/berserkers and the like. I wish I bought into testing earlier like when they were selling cosmetics ( been following this for a while now) but better late than never. I've alpha and beta tested so many games growing up this will be a nice slice of my childhood.

[@nivar9458]

As a Cleric, I love having a tank in the group and I do feel that the tank is a good strong class. Watching my wife play a tank I was impressed with the hate generation and the ability to keep multipole monsters off me in almost every situation. A lot of the math on the skills of a tank make no real sense, the wording is odd and the .01 stuff feels overly complicated. Since I don't play the tank I cant say much about the overall problems but I do agree that Iron will should be put back to 10% it was nice to know the tank was helping to the overall mitigation of a group. Another area I would like to see adjusted is the protect, not sure if it is a bug but if you move out of the 10meter range and then back into range a lot of times the buff does not come back and has to be reapplied. This is terrible when the tank is also the puller or one of the pair move a bit to far. Even increasing the range to 30m as you can do does not fix this problem of the buff just being gone.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@nivar9458 well said. Honestly as far as iron aura I wouldn’t mind if they reduced the effect range if they brought it back to 10%

[@veil1792]

*The Tank PProblem, it's so good everyone wants to play it!*

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@veil1792 SHIELDS UP ! 🛡️

[@Cerxen]

Honestly had a thouyabout exp debt, and that is it should be spread evenly across the whole party/raid. That should help mitigate the excessive tank exp debt they deal with if they die and get combat ressed multiple times per fight.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@Cerxen I lowkey love this suggestion

[@MFTGShane]

I really want a tank build that doesn't need a shield. Like block chance becomes lifesteal or something. Threat is based on damage dealt, and I want a low health increased attack speed/ damage. Makes Aegis a big deal. Still want a lot of HP. I would rather prefer this that would make the use of a sustain/dodge tank.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@MFTGShane totally understand this. I see a lot of 2h tanks wanting something of the same

[@MFTGShane]

@Nyce-Gaming yeah I tried 2h tanking but giving up block sucks

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@ that autoblock chance is so clutch

[@this_smitty23]

They should just remove the shield from vengeance, give it a short cd, and make it do respectable “tank” damage. It makes sense for the ability name and the trade off is reduced mitigation. If you want to go the boring route, make it worth pressing and up its shield value or remove the courage cost and give it three charges. Even then you’re probably better off auto attacking for finishers. Fix reflect, it has plenty of issues but is a fun button to press when it works properly. More CC options, we don’t bring damage, our aoe team mitigation is often a death sentence, we should be heavy on the CC. Good tanks should be calling targets and gripping for kill pressure, a more robust CC lineup just makes sense. They could possibly do something about the fact that tanks are forever broke due to deaths/repairs and are usually behind the xp curve as well. We die way more than others, it’s going to happen whether it’s piloted properly or not. I’m not sure how the class name hasn’t changed this far into development. Guardian, Protector, Myrmidon…. plenty of better options.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@this_smitty23 real. And yea a bigger shield to compensate for the damage mitigation loss would be great

[@strantheman]

Nyce your channel has been growing and I've enjoyed the content. But did you have to copy Narc's thumbnail style?

[@Nyce-Gaming]

LMAO thank you. Its an obvious meme / easter egg ny using the same font style. He even put the font on it for me. It's to coincide with his feedback for the cleric LOL

[@jefferycraigen1935]

"Tank" is just the name of the "base class" the archetypes have their own names. yes maybe Cleric should be called a healer and Ranger be called an archer. the damn knee attack kick headbutt combo is actually quite awesome in use and makes good sense with the armored melee type character. its basically free as courage builds up pretty fast. Also it does pretty good damage if you wait. I agree tomahawk is useless and doesn't make any sense.

[@Ides385]

Tank should really have some armor debuffs against enemies. I feel it's really lacking from the tanks I've played. You don't do a lot of damage but you can help the group do more damage. The tank kit doesn't have anything like this. I found it disappointing. Something I'll definitely be looking for when we get secondary archtypes. Love reflect as well but it bugs out on me a ton as well. Goes on cooldown, doesn't animate and I don't get the block. I have to make sure I'm doing nothing for a second before I activate it to be sure it goes off. Leash is a mess but if they get it working consistently it would be great. Those pulls that pull someone 5m out of 25m and puts it on cooldown are the worst. I hate vengeance as well please just completely rework it. I don't even put it on my bars. Tomahawk is pretty bad. If it at least built threat it would be mid. It's just subpar for now. Also get rid of the knockback specs. Knockback is rarely useful and usually detrimental to what a tank wants. Lot of gripes here but I'm actually loving the class. It's my main without a doubt. Just some things that need work.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

Some work needed indeed. Its interesting that the fighter has the shaken debuff and tanks dont unless they go mace. This reduces the targets physical mitigation. This should go to tank in my opinion.

[@Ides385]

@@Nyce-Gaming I said the same thing when I went through the Fighter skill tree.

[@prumbis]

AoC tank main and WoW prot pally main. Big +1 to the xp debt and other issues with frequently dying first. I'd really like to see some kind of solve for that. I think moving power out of the aura/passive effects and into active skills (eventually) is good, actually. Assuming every archetype has a limited power budget, and AoC is a very skill-expressive game, then more of your mitigation coming from intentional gameplay will feel more rewarding. Devotion aura is like 3% DR and part of why it's there is just to communicate to players "Hey, you have a paladin in the party. Neat right?" than to actually turn a fight or meet a threshold. Still, players will diversify raids even just for those tiny bonuses, so they always serve a little purpose.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@prumbis yea tanks getting the most xp debt sucks. I plan on discussing this in a stream or video. I’m wondering what can be done. Tanks are seldom in MMOs as is. I think they’ll be even more seldom in AOC

[@hivemind3247]

I'd like to see a vengeance rework to grant courage not spend it, and give a 5% hp overshield on like a 12s cd, would make low lvl tanking much better and people would actually use the ability after the first few levels. Also absorption field having a 2 second cast time is horrible when most mob casted abilities have the same 2s cast time. Tanking definitely feels all risk no reward right now, you're the first to die, if no one dies you get the same reward as everyone else with all the risk. Definitely need a grapple vs ranged fix asap, nothing more annoying than casting it 3-4 times just to pull that one ranged mob or player in.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@hivemind3247 I AGREE WITH ALL OF THIS 👏 there’s so much more risk as tank rn too. Will discuss in detail in the future cause it needs to be said

[@GS-el8ll]

no mention of tank getting xp debt reduction?

[@Nyce-Gaming]

originally did, but removed for a later discussion. Mentioned in description, however.

[@gary3669IFH]

I’m I the only one who thinks that Ashes needs Ultimate skills? Hopefully this is something coming close to lvl 50

[@Nyce-Gaming]

Ooooh that would be cool. I'd love it

[@gary3669IFH]

@@Nyce-Gaming ultimates just make stuff so dynamic. I remember in Lineage 2 there was an ultimate for the healer, where he spent an extremely expensive and hard to craft item, that would allow you to res your entire alliance within range. Even talking about some more simple ones from the tanks in L2 the “Ultimate Defence” would 3x your P.Def and lower almost all other stats (except for HP) AND root you for ~30 seconds. Great stuff btw, keep it up!!

[@outdoorsnevada4138]

Mage and Bard I have really enjoyed! Tank and Fighter I have not.

[@DJTMB]

Just found you recently and I’ve been getting all the updates from your channel. Would love to join your guild!

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@DJTMB join VoV discord and DM me

[@Auld17]

The Tank archetype name is a fuckin joke. They ABSOLUTELY have to change it before release.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@Auld17 yea I got a feeling it’ll turn a lot of tank enjoyers off upon looking into the game. Like they’ll still try it maybe but I expect them to have the same reaction as SodaPoppin lol

[@lolcat5303]

No idea why they don't go with the obvious pick of warden.

[@kevinmeyers9213]

Replace Tomahawk with a shield throwing skill that hits the target with a debuff effect of slow the target or something. This is my favorite class and it sucks balls right now in my opinion.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@kevinmeyers9213 agreed lots of improvement needed

[@unibob215]

Completely agree with your vengeance take. The shield value is so negligeble that I'd rather stay on 100 courage than spend 33 pressing this button. Quick math tells us that by pressing vengeance one is losing 3.3% of mitigation that 33 courage otherwise gives, wich in turn deals mediocre damage and sheilds player by 0.3% at best (for better understanding: level 20 tank at 4k HP will be shielded by 20+(4000*0.003) HP which is 32). Useless button in my opinion (from a pve standpoint of cource). Currently tank is pretty demanding on your skill but my suggestion is to redesign vengeance as damage mitigation buff that can be maintained at 3 stacks (similar as it is now) (1 stack - 3%, 2 stacks - 6%, 3 stacks - 9%) . Yes, it will be the similar mechanic as courage itself but it will make "rush of courage" more optional skill than it is now. Maintaining the debuff by pressing vengeance will no longe be so pointless + it'll add players more mitigation options Or it can be just a 5% shield as much more simple option

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@unibob215 yessss ! This ! 🧠 there’s sooo many better ways design this skill. Players shouldn’t feel bad spending courage

[@LiamAlt-c3k]

I believe all the class trees need alot of work to make them more diverrse, the bard tree would have to be the best, allowing you to spec singleor group focus, most of the other trees u get emough points to pretty much spec into every spell in the tree making it boring

[@Nyce-Gaming]

Yea I want to see more sacrifice and opportunity cost. I shouldnt have almost 24 skills slotted

[@Cimarb]

I was going to go tank/cleric (paladin), but after playing tank for a bit - solo mind you - it is lacking quite a bit. I tried a few others, then tried cleric and absolutely fell in love with it. So I will be going cleric/tank (apostle) most likely.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@Cimarb that sounds like a much better experience ESPECIALLY while playing solo. I’m going to try paladin first but may eventually settle on Tank-fighter Knight

[@Cimarb]

@@Nyce-Gaming I am really excited to see how the subclasses/augments work. Hopefully they are impactful enough to feel like actual different classes. Very glad the first two will be cleric/tank, as those are my preferred choices anyways lol

[@MocharaidThree]

I 100% agree about the archetype name. Why not call it, I don't know, Guardian, Sentinel, Vanguard, Knight, Protector, Sentry, Keeper.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@MocharaidThree literally any of these!

[@tokenoperator1983]

Tomahawk: I am fond of this ability and I want it to be viable but no one runs it because it's too situational. Give it a slight damage buff and instead of another trip give it a slow that rapidly decays off. Reflect: This ability is very fun to use but I wish the ability would be an animation cancel so it always works and you can be rewarded for good timing. Vengeance: I don't mind the headbutt, knee combo. The animation I feel like needs some work. Give it more impact if that makes sense. The numbers on this ability are dreadful though please buff. Inciting strikes: I like this ability but it needs more. The damage is lacking. I would like this ability to interact with melee weapon combos somehow or if that is too complicated or whatever give it armor pen, fire damage, something. Ground Pound, Wall, Aegis, Intercept: *Chef's kiss* Shake it off: Too complicated for an "oh shit" button Slam: People use this less than tomahawk I think. Give it a bigger knockback and if I slam someone into terrain or my wall they should get slept/stunned.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

great feedback/. I agree with all the above

[@Sun_Sioux]

Vengeance definitely needs a complete rework. I've leveled to 25 twice on Tank during Phase 1 and never used the ability as I see it as hurting me more than helping me. Give us a completely different level 1 ability. But don't get rid of my Tomahawk! I don't see the Tank as the CC machine in Ashes - that belongs to Bard. Sure, we have CC in our kit, but that isn't our primary identity. The primary identity is to absorb damage. CC is our secondary identity and we still have multiple capable tools to do this compared to other classes. I also feel as though our damage is fine. We have a couple of damage abilities, but this should probably be our worst trait for class balance.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@Sun_Sioux I actually agree with all this. I guess I’m used to tank being the cc machine but with this mmo having a bard I have to concede. And I’m sorry tomahawk is sooo random lol. I hope it becomes a shield and/or immobilize

[@Ludullu]

Also, I don't have the same takes on the tank. Soloing was too easy, even on lower lvls. Name is appropriate. Abilities are amazing, even when you're soloing. Tank is real fun 😊

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@Ludullu tank is definitely fun

[@MFTGShane]

Yeah. Too much so if you ask me. Even book tank misses out. It's so much a large part of your survivability, especially for group content that it makes it almost not viable for an alternative. The shatter effect is strong, but the added pressure of missing auto block (unless I am missing something) is arguably not worth it. I'd argue that an ability like pulverize needs a massive AD scaling and much more threat generation to allow it to function like a better taunt. Effectively that's the goal of a skill like that is to be a more damage oriented taunt. Overall though, I have my criticisms but I rather like the tank class. The taunt like you called out is a very great PvX ability

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@MFTGShane it’s a fun class imo just needs some work which is fine

[@CruxGamingMMO]

is the game worth playing in this state?

[@Nyce-Gaming]

I personally feel so especially if u have the right expectations

[@CruxGamingMMO]

@Nyce-Gaming and what should my expectations be

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@ barebones work in progress alpha with bugs, but fun gameplay and potential

[@michaelemard6350]

I think the main issue tanks find them selves in is being lvl 16 with no gear. everyone needing all gear feels bad. tanks need gear much more then other classes. most classes can get by with a alright weapon, a tank needs full sets and seeing mages need roll plate armor every time xD

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@michaelemard6350 yea maybe I’m bias but tanks definitely need gear more than other roles and archetypes. It only makes sense

[@rihards496]

I've only played Tank thus far in P1 and all these minor tests. Agree on everything, Vengence is boring and the gains from it are lacking, most of the skills are visually boring and don't provide enough valuable usage beyond spamming them as fillers.

[@Santanico9839]

tank already has one of if not the best skill tree's in the game, they have more mobility than a ranger, and arguably the most cc in the game, and their damage is pretty insane for how tanky they are, i agree there are things that need to be tuned, but more cc/heals does not feel like its big on the list lol

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@Santanico9839 I like the mobility via their charge, but idk if I feel they are more mobile/evasive than Ranger. I also feel bard cc is MUCH better as I’ve shown in two recent streams. Its cc is pretty good tho tbf. Just needs more variety as I mentioned. What would you say needs to be tuned?

[@Santanico9839]

@Nyce-Gaming hard to say I definitely agree tank is missing something, but I'm not quite sure what it is, in pve ranger definitely has more mobility, but in PvP a ranger has a 0% chance of escaping a good tank, to be fair I think all classes need another tune, tank bring probably last on the list, I think they are in a great spot and most of their faults will be fixed with secondary classes, this may be bias though as I have not played a tank past level 6 lol

[@relhaz4326]

Aegis needs to be a little bigger and also needs to turn off when you hit a certain health percentage lol Wild that tank skills do less damage than other classes and then grit makes you do a ton less on top of that Vengeance is so weird even if it wasn't terribly tuned. Sacrifice damage reduction (through courage) to get damage reduction (via temp hp)? If you are getting targeted by two tank busters (Smite in carphin), reflect will only stop one. But if you press block, it will cancel reflect. And theres still too much lag to reliably wait for reflect to block one and quickly get block up before the other. Did you do any group pvp? Tank felt pretty bad. Grapple is good, if it worked. Wall is good but has a 60 second cooldown. Ground pound is TINY and has a 60 second cooldown and requires stagger (bard stun also requires stagger but is 25 second cooldown with like 5 times the effective area). Absorption field is handy but the animation is long AF, and has a 90 second cooldown to shield dances 25 second cooldown. And you lose the shield if you leave the area. Tanks can be support-y, but they should also be getting in the thick of things. Charging in, leading the fray. Theres currently not really a good reason to do that. You don't do damage, and your aoe cc sucks. Its better to just go fishing

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@relhaz4326 thank you for this. Yea I did group PvP. It feels out of place sometimes besides grapple which is buggy, absorption field, and wall which has too long of a cd imo. And I agree, with grit already lowering our cds so much, you’d think they’d up the damage on skills like inciting strikes

[@Sovereign_Senpai]

you right nice Tank should be a CC master and where is my shield bash cc's at? also I wont to have better damage

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@Sovereign_Senpai preeeeeach

[@keith4776]

I think the problem will be casual tanks being non-existent. If you are in a solid group, the tank feels good. If you're not in a solid group, you're better off solo farming with a bow.

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@keith4776 yup. The added risk of being a tank in an already high risk game is a tough task many will pass on

[@Ludullu]

TANK IS TANK!

[@anaximanderification]

I think their fixation on knockdowns for the Tanks is cause that's how tanks work in Dungeons and Dragons / Pathfinder, at least the 3.5 edition which is what Ashes was original conceived as, a Pathfinder Campaign. As for Heart Strike, that is a terrible, TERRIBLE spell to bring up, at least for the purposes of a self-heal.That spell is broken in so many ways in WoW, and it would be more like a Summoner secondary option for the tank would modify a skill, maybe Inciting Strikes, to do 100% HP return from damage, since that is what Heart Strike is, a Cleave + Self Heal.. A better alternative for Shake it Off would be Word of Glory from prot paladins in WoW, but that would be under the Cleric secondary for Tank, as Word of Glory behaves how the Cleric's Deliverance works with the upgrade that makes the healing scale based on how much HP you are missing (plus you can heal someone else with it, as a Paladin would use Lay on Hands in D&D).

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@anaximanderification idk what heart strike is, but just referring to death strike from WoW DK but maybe it’s the same thing. Healing for a percentage of your recent damage taken doesn’t seem as TERRIBLE as you emphasized especially if you balance it properly via an appropriate cooldown.

[@unibob215]

@@Nyce-Gaming Nah, Blizzard had very hard times balancing this skill. Lets not give Steven bad examples

[@BattleBorn13]

It's mandatory to have them in a group , yet they are the worst class to play. No one I know likes playing a tank, but feel they have to because no one else in their group will. Their damage shouldn't be has high as DPS, but how about at least match the Cleric or Bard?

[@ashesofcreachawn]

Woot!

[@rajaraza]

Primarily tank 23, mage 15, ranger 10, cleric 8... played a bard for level 5 and deleted to okay a fighter. First complaint give me more slots, atleast to match all the archetypes. Secondly tanks first ability is useless, I agree but why does grit take damage away, that's also not right, tank class abilities don't do too much damage, so turning grit on in pvp is useless, game being pvx, make it so dmg reduced is also 1% or so, not 25%

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@rajaraza i think grits negative is ok for balancing purposes. U don’t want an archetype being insanely tanky but also high dmg like other games. Plus it adds variety and choice with gameplay especially once u learn to toggle it on and off depending on the situation. I personally PvP with grit on for example cause I value the mitigation. But I agree 25% does indeed seem ridiculous

[@willthedingo]

Just a heads up man, looks like you're accidentally exploiting in your fights. Your longbow Deadly Finisher at 8:00 - 8:02 this is an annoying exploit/bug that needs to be fixed. You're proccing Wounded, Staggered, Bleeding, Chilled, and Snared all in that one single Deadly Finisher, this means you're stacking Deadly Finishers from multiple different weapons you do not have equipped and it's triggering them all. Very exploitative to have in PVP - if they haven't fixed this in Phase 2 and you find yourself with it again, just make sure you RESPEC your weapon skill tree to clear it before you dispose of them and this won't happen. Went through a very in depth testing of it and reported it in a very detailed /bug report, because you could essentially have one person trigger every element for a Mage to then nuke someone. Absolutely not intended, because at one point I had EVERY weapon available all procing their Deadly Finisher in my testing. Definitely not fair to use in PVP.

[@Tulcas_Anathar]

As a tank level 10... ...my opinion has no value yet. 🙂

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@Tulcas_Anathar it does! How was your early game leveling or experience?

[@Tulcas_Anathar]

​@Nyce-Gaming Bad obviously. Players start almost equal so no feel of tankiness. Core skills are required for basic rotation, so class is not online sooner than level ~10. Lot of skills have negligible values until scaled and combined later in the levels. Seems like they are just scaled down arithmetically, not polished. Quests are not a serious option, artisan is too complex for starting players. Game is hard at first for new players. First ten levels should be much more "tutorialish" imho.​

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@ 👏 thank you for this

[@Tulcas_Anathar]

@@Nyce-Gaming Nevertheless, it was still a "blast" as you guys say. It was exactly as I expected. I would be disappointed if they spent more time on it in this stage of development and I am excited for the finished state. On the contrary, lot of my worries were scattered. They are able to actually deliver and not only fantasize. 💪

[@tilnation14]

7:18 As someone who's leveled a tank from 1-5+ 9 times, I do in fact feel *somewhat* tanky even at level 1.

[@DoingFavors]

Sodapoppin -"Cries incoherantly and quits in the tutorial" Always remember to quote viable sources.

[@Blathnaid_AOC]

I hate the "tank" name it's so trash

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@Blathnaid_AOC immersion breaking too somehow. Comes off lazy

[@Nyce-Gaming]

Or out of place rather

[@SteakSauceIceCream]

nope i like the name Tank

[@Nyce-Gaming]

@@SteakSauceIceCream blasphemy!!! lol

[@jerrylong891]

SCAM