Ashley's Analysis | Blind Overtake - Hesitation Causes Danger!

In this episode we have a look at a viewers clip where hesitation leads to some dangerous overtaking. Thank you so much to all who have sent clips in.
Please let me know what you think in the comments, and don't forget to send me your clips to analyse in future episodes. By sending me your clips, you agree to me using them. You must be the owner of any clips you send in. Thanks, Ashley
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[@TheFingerman37]

After watching the video, yes the dash cammer was maybe slow, but was dealing with multiple things -a) road conditions, b) country road with national speed limit (well at the point where the tailgating van turned was a national speed limit sign),c) tailgating van, d) poor light and of course the wobbly slow cyclist. I think the cammer did the right thing. The vehicles that overtook, overtook on a road that looked to me like it had a dip or crest so traffic couldn't be seen coming the other way. The cammer let the idiots overtake and go away and when the position was right overtook the cyclist and got away. Impatience is probably the biggest cause of accidents on roads like this and I have seen many near misses on the lanes near me because of impatience (p.s. I get impatient too and some idiotic near misses in my younger driving days makes me take stock and let it go). The cammer also may have local knowledge too and wouldn't overtake at that spot as they know the risks on that road.

[@David-sw2fn]

TheFingerman37 Yes agree and good points. As I posted earlier, the dip/uneven road is key to this. I’m really worried to read some of the comments on this thread. A vehicle could easily have been hidden by the dip (or at the very least that was a reasonable risk to consider). The cammer overtook when this was appropriate. The other drivers bet their lives on no car coming up the slopes on the other side. They got away with it. Good for them. That’s not a bet I’ll be taking in the future.

[@RickP2012]

Yep, I would have gone wider where the turning lane appears at the first corner. However, to be fair the van behind was far too close and you can sometimes be more hesitant as you don't know whether they are going to do something stupid.

[@piciu256]

Ye what the hell, when I read the title I thought it will be on a blind corner or something, but it's a long straight with good enough visibility...

[@user-ue6iv2rd1n]

Maybe the dashcam distorts it but there is no visibility because of the crest in the road.

[@grahamlong6870]

The possible problem here could be that the cammer knows the road, and is fully aware that this stretch is used by many cyclists. I have on numerous occasions come upon cyclists displaying zero lights on such roads, and dressed from head to foot in dark clothing. In fact I did today (09/01/2021). Went to pass one cyclist in high viz (and showing lights) through a dark local woodland, then hesitated, only to find another without lights, and dressed all in black, approaching only twenty yards further on. He was invisible! Had I passed I WOULD probably have had a close call.

[@davidrumming4734]

....I actually initially thought that tailgating van behind at the start (which turned off) was going to overtake on the bend - that’s the sorta thing I’ve come to expect 😮

[@TheFluffii]

I drive down country lanes a lot for work, so I come a cross this situation a lot. I think it was a timid driver not used to driving down country lanes made worse by people tailgating. the driver probably was more panic not to overtake than thinking clearly about how much room they had to overtake the cyclist.

[@Jon-1919]

People so close behind completely blocking the view won't have helped them either. They're unlikely to have been able to see back past the van behind them before pulling out onto the right. If an impatient motorcyclist was overtaking they could wipe them out.

[@marklittler784]

Or missed their Specksavers appointment 😄😃😂😅

[@hikaru9624]

The driver could have pulled out a little to see if it was clear but it’s easy for me to say that on here. It’s always harder in the moment and lack of experience certainly doesn’t help! And neither does panicking. This was a valuable learning experience for the driver and no one was hurt.

[@5uper5kill3rz]

Actually don't understand what I'm watching? that's such a simple overtake?? straight road and nothing coming the other way, Cammer needs some serious help with their confidence behind the wheel

[@yodaslovetoy]

Probably didnt help with a van up their chuff

[@DeCeptioNeC]

It's got to be a piss take surely...

[@SPTSuperSprinter156]

A straight road with a crest on an NSL road where oncoming vehicles could easily have been coming at the speed limit. Not actually as simple as it sounds and while I wouldn't have hung around like this a person with less confidence and a slow vehicle might have been wise to wait a bit. That said they did hang around until way after the visibility improved but its not as bad as some here are making out.

[@cogidubnus1953]

The van tailgating must've been a factor here...and indicated a right turn very late...the cammer possibly felt that the oncoming junction to the right precluded him moving to the right to get a better view and pre-overtaking position, lest he was perceived as potentially turning right himself (over-thinking?)...however, following the van turning right, then he was indeed miles too hesitant, though again, the clear tailgating/ impatience of the second van certainly didn't help either...

[@diversionbob8482]

It's driver who are full of confidence that cause problems.

[@afreeman1980]

There was one massive benefit for the cyclist with this, however, he got a full cars width with the overtaking from all the other drivers. I think he would have had some close passes from the tailgaters and less patient vehicle drivers that were there. The camer (nice term) was slow but we all get to our graves on way or another and although it can be annoying to the followers I would prefer a cautious driver to an impatient one every time. A much lower accident risk and a lot more predictable.

[@scoobyru84]

dont agree with this at all being over cautious and hesitation can also cause many accidents esp when changing lanes etc this is same

[@andrewnorris5415]

@@scoobyru84 I think the van right on the camer's tail distracted him. Must have wondered if the van would put out to overtake at the same time.

[@hikaru9624]

I largely agree with this but being over cautious can be as dangerous as impatient drivers, a good example of this is in the video. But it’s tricky getting the balance of being a defensive driver and knowing when you just have to make the attempt. I know a road near me that has nothing but obstructed bends meaning that if I have to overtake a cyclist I might have no choice but to attempt it while approaching a corner. I’ll hang back for a better section of road if possible but you cannot stay behind a cyclist (or slow vehicles) forever. As for single track roads? You either make do with being behind a cyclist or stop and let them pass you.

[@jhferu]

@@hikaru9624 "you cannot stay behind a cyclist (or slow vehicles) forever" You absolutely can. It is called patience and actually, it isn't a limited resource. In fact, of you find your patience is beginning to wear thin, it is sign that you aren't actually being patient.

[@MK-1973]

Felt sorry for the viewer there - feel you're right that they were intimidated by the other vehicles following too close. We need to be able to deal with that as drivers though. A very fair analysis I thought.

[@GretatheEvilGremlin]

First thing I noticed, 26mph on a derestricted limit road. Something very wrong?????!!!!!!

[@w.e.s9711]

This was painful to watch and if they are this bad on a simple road like this, God knows how bad they would be in a busy city centre or... Anywhere really.

[@skylarius3757]

sometimes it's just not worth the overtake in london. As the cyclist will only catch you up and be back in front at the next set of lights.. As it is most areas are 20mph to" keep people safe"

[@garywhite6241]

Or at night???

[@DT-hg7te]

I would definitely have waited for the cyclist to round the bend before trying anything, and with the driver doing 30, we don't know what the conditions of the road were at the time (just because it's 40, doesn't mean 40 is safe). I think the driver was probably intimidated by others overtaking so soon to be honest.

[@groomys67]

That poor cyclist must have been thinking "FFS I'm peddling as fast as I can".

[@KunaevNS]

bratwurzt 67 hahahahahaha

[@michaelhampton6388]

I've been this cyclist and I'm actually thinking this muppet is such a poor driver he's going to get me killed.

[@user-ue6iv2rd1n]

Looks that he needs to go up a few gears, I don't know how he makes 8mph look so labored.

[@ChrisCoxCycling]

That's actually a really good point. When you are cycling and you can hear a car right behind you, and you don't see why they're not passing you, it actually does start to make you worry. I'd probably consider signalling with my left arm and bailing out of the road to let them go in this situation.

[@Antonhein]

Pedaling! But yes.....

[@fullsizedwarf]

I was once on an unfamiliar country road at night and a police car decided to drive 1mm from my back end for about a mile. It was a 4x4 so his lights were blinding me as well. He then overtook me on a blind bend. What hope do new drivers have if the police are driving like utter maniacs.

[@Strider9655]

You can drive faster at night down winding country lanes, because you can see the headlights of approaching cars even through the hedges/etc.

[@Xtravia9]

At the start of the video the camera car was only doing 28mph in a 40 and when passing the NSL signs instead of simply overtaking he slows to 15mph. It is understandable that the van driver (and everyone else) behind was a bit frustrated with it.

[@SPTSuperSprinter156]

just past the NSL signs (only a matter of seconds if travelling at the speed limit) is a crest in the road. Now imagine pulling out onto the opposite side of the road to overtake the cyclist, giving a squirt of the gas to get up to speed and meeting a vehicle suddenly appearing over the crest doing the speed limit. That's a closing speed that will probably kill all involved. Yes, the driver hesitated far too long after the road cleared but to overtake at the NSL signs, unless you have a sufficiently quick car to do it, is risky. I can understand why they waited.

[@johnkeepin7527]

@@SPTSuperSprinter156 Yes; it’s possible to count the centre lines, thus calculating the visible distance clear (roughly). It’s not much more than 100m (the units in DfT standards are metric), which is nowhere near enough on a 60 mph road. Worse for cars compared with vans etc with higher driving positions as well, on account of the ‘blind’ summit ahead. That said, if it was a manual gearbox car, it would have been wise to change down early, then once it was clear, full power straight away. Whilst I am used to the way dash cams calculate the speed, it does seem to have been a slow move, with a risk of it’s own.

[@DigiKunt]

40 is not the target speed & gps speed around trees is inaccurate

[@johnkeepin7527]

@@DigiKunt Many “dash-cam” devices drop out of co-ordinate/speed display when there are not enough GPS satellites visible (I think 3 is the absolute minimum to determine where one is). The other point to be aware of is that the speed is usually calculated over the previous second, by co-ord rate of change, so the figure on display is a bit odd during rapid braking or acceleration. The other thing is that it’s weird around sharp curves, as it only uses a ‘straight line’ around the earth. That said, along steady straight lines it’s better than any built in speedometer.

[@David-sw2fn]

Cal yes I really think most commentators have missed this. To me the cammer was the only one to come out of this with any credit. My perception was that there were inclines here that might contain a hidden car. Assuming the oncoming car on the opposite side could be driving at 60, that’s a hell of a bet to take that there’s for sure nothing below your line of sight. Even watching a second time, I think the cammer was prudent and I am pretty sure I would have done the same.

[@alanhindmarch657]

My impression is that the driver of the dash cam car is a novice or elderly. But the drivers behind didn’t help matters and probably made the driver more hesitant.

[@andrewnorris5415]

Agreed, and it's right that in this situation (over taking) novices do hold back until they gain more confidence. I would like to see elderly licences limited to certain types of road (speed limits) if possible. Or even certain routes only the yare used to and pass a test on, like to the shops, or a relative's house, to allow them to keep their lifeline. Put them in unfamiliar situations and they could panic or misjudge it. Regular tests too.

[@marklittler784]

Didn't get the impression dashcams are on the usual elderly drivers shopping list though.

[@owencook2332]

I think that the driver did the sensible option, and patiently waited. Better be safe than sorry! The drivers behind obviously influenced the drivers opinion, as the scenario was highly pressurising.

[@Rhythmeister]

That tailgating twat in the van must've unsettled the cam car but that was FAR too much hesitation, I'd like to think you'd fail your driving test for that. Did any of the overtaking drivers even bother to indicate as well? Crazy driving in blighty abounds!

[@ketchup5344]

Hard to tell given degree of visibility being limited on video. One things for sure you need time to overtake and confirmation via good visibility of the entire road ahead. Dont be bullied by drivers behind!! Drive safe!!

[@m2ger8]

you can call me slow but when i am stuck behind someone and waiting for the right moment to pass the slower vehicle (not a cyclist) usually there is someone a whole lot less patient than i am to ruin my attempt and overtakes the whole "train" at once. they start when i still consider the situation not safe enough. Seems to be the culture in my country. the first to start the overtake is the last car in the "train"

[@HoppyTheRobot]

NEVER overtake out of turn. It's very dangerous. The person in the front of the queue will be concentrating on getting past and not looking at what's going on behind him. He is quite likely to pull out as you are passing him.

[@m2ger8]

@@HoppyTheRobot that is what i am saying, the moment i see a straight with no traffic coming towards me there is already a car passing me in my mirror.

[@Ethankeenan02]

Why dident they overtake sooner when it was a clear straight road

[@SSC0002]

Perhaps a new driver

[@hikaru9624]

SC123 or good old hesitation. We’ve all hesitated at some point when driving.

[@andyowens5494]

Spot on analysis again Ashley (not 100% sure on the final car as the road looked visible on my small screen, but as you say, can judge too much off a wide FOV dashcam). I’ve had folks behind hoot me for not overtaking when I can see oncoming traffic and its close enough that an overtake would be dangerous; many drivers perception of risk can be way off, in both ways. It does make you wonder whats going on in some peoples heads. I thought that cammer must have been about to take a left turn, so rather than overtake and cut in they were holding off. No wonder the others overtook.

[@chloederias]

I also would of held back abit just coming up to the corner (Depending on how open it was) just to be safe with cars coming from the opposite direction. However, once I could see the road was clear as the cam shows, gone straight around. I think they got themselves in abit of a pickle there.

[@piciu256]

Not a very good driver, that's for sure.

[@chloederias]

@@piciu256 me or them? 😂

[@piciu256]

@@chloederias video

[@MrSapps]

Yeah makes sense, you get people doing like 80+ on some of these roads veering into the oncoming lanes on bends

[@hazariabrown9025]

I had a situation with multiple cyclists a few months ago, there were at least 8 of them in a group, sometimes they were cycling three abreast, first time I saw them was going through a small village with a 20 mph road going past the village school, then a sharp bend with limited visibility followed by bends, parked cars on the left, bin day, more bends, I could not see a safe spot to get past them. Eventually another car appeared behind me and got himself in a right strop at that point we were going round a bend and through some traffic calming posts, then a big rise in the road so you could not see any cars coming along on the other side until you got over it, it wasnt worth the risk but the car following kept beeping his horn and just made it worse, once over the hill I could see It was clear for a good distance finally and managed to get round all the cyclists. One is bad enough a herd of them is interesting lol. I think I did the right thing, it wasnt worth the risk of hitting an oncoming car head on. I wish now I had saved the dashcam footage and sent it but I didnt think at the time.

[@petyrkowalski9887]

Three abreast? You sure? I run a cycle club and we are out in groups all the time. We go 2 abreast max and that is the advice from British Cycling..and only if the road is wide enough for cars to get safely past..it makes the peleton shorter for cars. If the road narrows then we all go single file to let cars past.

[@MrSapps]

If it was me I would have waited until after the bend as it seems less risky when you have a complete clear view of what is going on. On a 30mph road I left a gap doing about 20 mph behind a cyclist because there wasn't a big enough gap in the oncoming cars to overtake while leaving at least 1.5m of space. As I went for the overtake when it was clear the guy behind also floored it overtake me forcing me to brake and move left almost hitting the cyclist. He continued on way over the speed limit almost hitting a car in front as we got to the lights. So that is one learning point I would take from my situation - always double check no one is about to try to overtake you as you are overtaking a cyclist!

[@ChrisCoxCycling]

The best way to find cyclists less unpredictable (more predictable? what's the more positive way to put it...) is imagine a small car size "bubble" around them and they're in the middle of it. If you do that, then if they do have to go around an obstacle/hazard on the road, or dodge an opening car door, or adjust for a pedestrian who's about to step onto the road, it's not an issue - they really just move towards the "driver" position in that small car and you're anticipating that. If you're just looking at the right elbow of the cyclist and thinking that's the point I need to move around, and that's the line they're going to maintain, then that's when things can become scary. Particularly since, as you've said in a lot of videos, people are notoriously bad planners. They can't plan their own movements, and they're not good at anticipating what the person in front of them is going to do. Yes that's as true for cyclists as anyone else, though I will say that once you've been on a bike for a while your sense of self preservation does improve your awareness and planning compared to being in a reinforced metal cage. When I started riding again about 10 years ago, it totally changed how I drive around cyclists. I was able to see a cyclist ahead, and look at the hazards ahead of them that they might be considering dealing with - parked cars, pinch points, disappearing bike lanes and so on - and then I can anticipate how to drive around them (or stay behind them) safely. But if you haven't ridden a bike in years and you don't have that lived experience, then the tip I said about considering the cyclist in an imaginary small car "bubble" can help. In fact that's basically the whole idea of the 1.5m passing guidance in the highway code (in Australia, it's an enforceable law, 1m at speed limits under 60kph, 1.5m at speed limits over 60kph). Apart from the physics of air drag when a large, fast vehicle passes a cyclist, it's also to give that breathing space in case a cyclist has to negotiate an obstacle, or wobbles, or slips, or hits a bump etc.

[@peebee143]

The cammer was a 'pootler'. You can well imagine them also being the one to enter a major carriageway from a slip road at 30mph, or to be the one who slots their vehicle into the last place causing a total grid-lock situation.

[@Lauren_B]

Ashley I want to send a clip to you but I haven’t figured out how to blur the person’s face in it 😶

[@ashley_neal]

I can do that if you let me know who 👍🏼

[@highdownmartin]

I’d probably indicate right briefly to tell the vehicle behind I have a need to overtake Then take a controlling position on or slightly over the line. Indicate again and move past. With a proper wide berth

[@dickhelling3529]

As a cyclist as well as a driver, I agree completely with what Ashley said about the 'unpredictability' of cyclists - as he says, there are all sorts of obstacles on the road which car drivers don't even notice but cyclists have to avoid (especially in slippery road conditions like in the video when even an odd camber can cause your wheel to slip sideways), so please do give moving cyclists a wide berth. But sitting for ages right on the cyclist's tail like the cammer did may have put the cyclist in more danger - he would have been constantly aware (through his ears, a sense rarely useful in a car!) of something close behind and have been expecting an overtake any second, and therefore feeling obliged to keep well to the left even over poor surfaces he would prefer to have moved out to avoid. And if the cyclist had hit a serious bump and fallen off into the car's path, could the car have stopped in time? Either get past, or sit well back please. I'm not sure if I agree with Ashley's comment that the cammer 'led to some dangerous overtaking', the cars behind didn't have to overtake, and anyway if it was 'dangerous' to overtake a car going at cycling speed, then it was not safe to overtake a bike either (given the need to go into the opposite carriageway in either case). But I don't think it was dangerous anyway - the drivers of later cars could see that the cars ahead remained in sight well down the road, so they could be confident of seeing an oncoming vehicle just as far away.

[@Ethankeenan02]

The first mercedes van was your usually delivery driver inna rush or needs a poo

[@m2ger8]

the renault after that did not hold back much more either

[@RhynoProductionsDE]

haha

[@Keithbarber]

If he needed a poo, he would be a shit driver

[@grahamnutt8958]

Before posting this comment I went back to review Ashley's footage called "How to deal with a Tailgater" (posted 12th December 2018). Having clarified that the viewer was in fact travelling along a 40mph limit it would not surprise me to learn that they (viewer) had in fact slowed down to lower the risk from the Mercedes van that was clearly tailgating. Having cleared the left hand bend, bearing in mind that vehicles by this time should be travelling with their lights on, I think that the viewer should have gone for the overtake before the Renault van was up his/her rear bumper. The hesitant manner of the viewers driving made a poor situation a lot worse than it should have been. I would very much like to hear from the viewer that submitted this clip to hear what he/she has to say on this matter. Without "hating" on the viewer (I tried to be fair and balanced here) I am sure that they have learnt something from this experience and Ashley's words of wisdom. Thanks for sharing this (viewer) and to Ashley (as usual) in the hope that it helps make our roads a safer place to be 👍.

[@Javadamutt]

When driving a 1.4L Vauxhall Meriva I often hesitated when overtaking. Simply the car lacked acceleration (to the point a lorry could almost out drag it) and small hills would drain speed unless you revved the nutts off it (3.5k - 4k). So often waited until I was certain the road ahead was clear as overtakes could take what felt like days. Vans and SUV's had the advantage in height and often could see down the road much further and other cars often had power. Now a cyclist shouldn't pose that much difficulty compared to another car that has some momentum, but I can understand someone hesitating in what seems a small car on a fast road.

[@broadsword6650]

I don’t think the Cammer can be blamed for hesitating. Remember, we don’t know what they were driving or how quickly it can accelerate. Was it a heavily-laden van, or an older, slower city car or whatever. They encountered the cyclist in bad place (approaching bend and junction) with a bullying van driver behind whose intentions were unclear. We know Road conditions were not good (cold, wet, bad light). The other drivers were a conspiracy of dangerous idiots who all made things worse and the Cammer had to try to manage their bad driving , which made it more difficult to overtake the bike. So, the Cammer has my sympathies. If someone doesn’t feel confident that they can safely overtake then they shouldn’t overtake. It’s their decision and they will have to live with the consequences. The unlit bloke-in-black on the bike could have helped by pulling over into that driveway, too.

[@richardharvey1732]

Hi Ashley, the thing I most noticed was that after the first part of the sequence when the was a good space thereafter the cammer was so close to the cyclist, not leaving an appropriate space in which to accelerate before passing, a very common and dangerous habit, another form of tailgating. Cheers, Richard.

[@alexandrafreeman8135]

It was a clear enough to overtake

[@sameyers2670]

I agree about the positioning of the car, I would have overtaken as soon as the road straightened.

[@madcyclist53]

I am going to defend the chap in the white Volvo. Whoever it is obviously know the road, and knows that the broken white line (rather than solid white line) means there might be a summit, but it is very slight. It is possible to see the tail lights a long way ahead, so it is possible to see obstructions and oncoming traffic much farther than it is possible to see the tarmac. Yes, it is cutting things very fine. Yes, the cammer should have got up speed and overtaken immediately after the junction, where one can see the road is clear a long way ahead.

[@IToohat]

I feel the most dangerous part of this clip (although others contributed to the increased danger) was the mini playing follow the leader, the mini commits to overtaking the cammer while the van is next to the cammer and the visibility for the mini seeing the road ahead must have been near to nil. The mini was also cutting it fine with regards to leaving enough room before the blind crest (at least it looked that way on this camera). I'm assuming the van had good visibility past the cammer and over the crest due to the higher seating position. In all overtaking cases I would have beeped my horn before committing to the overtake of the cammer.

[@Rory241995]

As a cyclist I agree that going wide is preferable. In this situation it causes people to assume that the cyclist is causing all the issues with traffic. This then causes issues for the cyclist later on. If you drive be confident overtake wide and quickly. I often with a car driver like this stop and let them go allows me to proceed without someone behind me pressuring me and frustrating cars behind. It certainly seems to be a confidence issue and I hope this video helps the cammer!

[@Otacatapetl]

I think you pretty much nailed it in your comments. The cammer made the right call by not overtaking at first sight; it wasn't safe. But I would've gone at the bus stop; the cammer hesitated and then the moment was gone.

[@dankshiz69]

As a cyclist if I had taken the situation in and seen the other driver's struggle, I would think about letting the cars past and then proceeding. Also a great accesory to your bicycle is a little mirror on the right side that just clips onto your bars.

[@keith6400]

I do not think there are drivers who are wary of overtaking cyclists. I believe there are a significant number of drivers who simply avoid overtaking any vehicle to the point of stupidity. They have a follow the target vehicle and wait until it turns off strategy. If you have no intention of overtaking a vehicle you need to follow it at a distance which allows other drivers to overtake you and then move back in and then overtake the lead vehicle as a second move. I have known drivers on a 70 mph two lane dual carriageway with fast moving traffic observe a 20mph agricultural vehicle or other slow moving vehicle with an amber flashing roof beacon in the so called "slow lane" not change lanes and draw up very close behind it. They cannot overtake by pulling out at 20mph as everyone is overtaking at 70 mph. Their perception is that they were unlucky to get stuck behind a tractor due to circumstances completely outside of their control.

[@WaldoBC]

moving to the right would also give people behind a better view of the reason why he is slowing down to 6 mph

[@RajR96]

There's being cautious then there's that! Bloody hell!

[@Back4RoundTwo]

I do think on the bend they should have stayed in their lane but there was ample time after the bend to over take so could have overtaken so much sooner

[@shaunw9270]

Hesitant ? That's an understatement . Once again another fine example of a cyclist not understanding vehicle lighting....

[@ctclothbagco]

From the camera perspective when they first caught the cyclist it looked like they were on aproach to a crest with long right bend. Personally knowing how people speed and don't pay attention I wouldn't want to risk it not knowing what's coming the other way and no clear view of the road after the crest

[@MrUltimate124]

Even though I passed my driving test 2 weeks ago, Still find these videos helpful :P

[@Duncan94]

The only reason I would understand the VW pickup overtaking at 9:42 is if, because they're higher up, can see clearly see that the road ahead is clear.

[@paulcuthbert]

Very useful as a new driver, thank you. As a cyclist, I'd point out that the cyclist's position was too far left. Recommended practice is to ride more centrally on narrow or bendy roads, to discourage close passes.

[@kandykush4204]

"Drivers" like this need to hand their license in. If you cant overtake a cycle on an empty road you should be on the bus!

[@gordon861]

Considering the driving of the car doing the overtake I also expect they were in their normal cruising gear, so even if they had put their foot down they would have no acceleration available anyways. Also by holding back and sitting further to the right they would offer protection to the cyclist if it is dangerous to overtake and actively discourage anyone from pushing through and endangering the cyclist. Regarding the flashing of the lights, I read the flash as "come on, get on with it" and not "I am coming through", perfectly illustrating the problem with relying on the flashing of lights and the views of other drivers to determine what you should do next when you are unsure.

[@Edvard.Munchkin]

1:23 is where I would have gone, can see plenty into the distance, just accelerate briskly and it's all over in 3 seconds. The Volkswagen Amarok driver in my opinion wasn't flashing to say he was going to overtake, he flashed to say go on to fuck, and to be honest I can't blame him for that. Cammer had plenty of opportunities, so in my humble opinion, and no offence to the cammer if you're reading this, I think the cammer caused the issue to escalate. You need to be able to move briskly and not cause delay to keep roads safe.

[@dickelg]

The first van was driving appallingly the camera car was in a 40 zone driving to conditions

[@w.e.s9711]

It's a little wet, no reason to not be able to do 40 on a road like this. You don't know how long the driver was doing less than 30mph in the 40 which would annoy anyone stuck behind. The driver clearly has no confidence with any kind of driving and really shouldn't be on the road, unless they are a brand new driver.

[@handsoffmycactus2958]

No they were going far too slow. They were doing bloody 27mph ffs

[@sept1ne]

I know the road well, and just before the video starts there is a sharp corner followed by a steep hill. I think the cammer just wasn't driving 'positively' and didn't pick up much speed.

[@Mrhullsie2]

Some unkind comments here. We have no idea of the experience of the driver. They correctly did not try to overtake at the junction and had the pressure of vehicles tailgating behind and the cyclist in front. The driver was possibly unsure if the first van was indicating to turn right or overtake and then the other vehicles behind didn't give much time for the driver to overtake before they did themselves. None of us are perfect. Give the driver a break and use his mistakes as a learning experience for ourselves.

[@ThatRandomGuy20]

It's safe to say that van was putting the pressure on. Difficult to tell how experienced the driver is, but provides a good teachable moment

[@gavjlewis]

As I can't see anybody else addressing it. I wouldn't class the Volvo overtake as "ridiculous". As the VW overtakes he straddles the white line even as he reaches the crest and the road bend to the right. A clear indication that there is nothing in the opposite lane. By this time the Volvo is past the cam car. So while I think the Volvo should have waited for the crest of the hill for a better view, with the view of the VW ahead and the speed (lots of potential acceleration available) I wouldn't class it as "ridiculous". But that is just my view.

[@MR2perfectable]

The only reason why I could think the driver hesitated was because the road was going slightly uphill.

[@QuentinStephens]

Rule 169 of the Highway code states 'Do not hold up a long queue of traffic' . First we have the cyclist who had ample opportunity to pull in and let the traffic past, and did not appear to check for traffic queueing behind. The Highway Code applies to cyclists. Then there's the low visibility of the cyclist - he should put on a something bright and visible like a high-vis jacket - very easy to miss against the background of the trees and the cyclist's rear flasher isn't exactly noticeable from a distance. Second, Rule 169 also applies to the cammer. Doing 28 mph in a NSL zone is not usually a good move. If you're not driving at a reasonable speed for the conditions, pull over and let traffic past. Now, maybe they had a load of bees in the boot of the car (BTDTGTTS - put a sign on the back of the car!) so were driving slowly for a good reason but they still need to let traffic past.

[@zivkovicable]

There is no obligation for the cyclists to pull over here. There was plenty of room to overtake, & in fact the cyclist had every right to take the whole lane on the bends, & there would still have been plenty of room to overtake as the other cars proved. It was the first car driver who was holding everyone up & breaking Rule 169 if anyone..

[@AlexanderWright1]

I think a big problem in this situation, and others where you approach an obstruction, is the lack of appreciation of the momentum of the car. Cars can usually slow down a lot faster than they can accelerate. By keeping back, and forecasting where you can pass, you can build up speed, and make the decision to pass or not with speed built up. You can slow down again quickly if needed. That said, I'd not do that with someone tailgating me.

[@markhamilton7289]

plenty of opportunity from 1:24 to overtake quickly and safely so utter dithering. the first van driver (who turned right) was a total knob and right up the can car boot and the 2nd van was super impatient too.

[@rayleighcc]

I'm sorry this is awful driving in every sense...

[@MK-1973]

Viewing this again I think another thing that maybe didn't help was, ironically, the cyclist was actually being too submissive and cycling too close to the kerb. This creates added pressure on drivers, especially those who may be apprehensive, to either pass when its not safe or hesitate. The cyclist was slow but they weren't that slow - 10mph isn't too bad on a slight uphill on a damp winters' day. Had they been further out from the kerb as they and the cammer approached the left hand bend might he have held back sooner? Another thought on the cammer's overtake. Top marks yes for giving the cyclist lots of room. But yes could have accelerated more briskly and I think steering back in to the left afterwards was a bit laboured - should have taken a straighter line to keep the car stable. That would have helped with the brisker acceleration too. I say this as someone who's (a) a cyclist myself, and (b) has made a hash of overtaking cyclists in the car many times. Thankfully I think I'm a bit better now.

[@steamhammer2k]

Not sure if this was a learner driver or new driver. The clip suggests this by the way car is driven and the attitude of the other road users. I don`t think you really learn to drive until long after you pass your test. We were all new at one time, cut them some slack. Tailgating helps no one, as a driver of a large vehicle it just intimates and causes bad decisions/mistakes by those around you, then you can have big problems.

[@FlavourlessLife]

On the one hand, yes, the van was tailgating. On the other hand, the cammer is doing 27 mph on an open country road.

[@jhferu]

This driver was perhaps hesitant, but, if you are not sure that it is absolutely safe to over take, don't. This may have been a "poor non-overtake" - however this is much better than the much more common "poor overtake". When I cycle on country roads, about 50% of motorists will happily overtake on blind bend. Sure there are things that the cammer could have done to get a better view of what was approaching, as Ashley has pointed out, I really can't criticise the cammer for erring on the side of caution. We all make mistakes, and erring on the side of caution is preferable to the alternative.

[@tgk300xx4]

What the hell was the camera car doing? He had literally ages to do it.

[@shamwaghmare7288]

Love all your lessons and eagerly wait for new tutorial . Can you please make tutorial or suggest on approach with below scenarios. 1. Approaching and driving on uphill with cars moving snail speed but not stopping - I caught on this situation couple of times. I was driving in 3rd gear and moved to 2nd gear as I approached to uphill and traffic speed went from 20 KMPH to 5KMPH as moved forward, I kept car in 2nd gear but car was lugging and stalled. In other same instance I moved to 1st gear while car was lugging in 2nd but RPM was near 800, car did moved but due to low RPM it took a while to gain momentum to speed up. This whole time I was scared that car will stall any time and may roll back. My query is with how to move in uphill traffic with speed less than 6 KMP and how to approach and keep the correct gear and RPM in check. 2. How we can prepare the car and overtake quickly in situation 1 when there is a slow moving loaded vehicle(Bus, Trailer) which will take time cross uphill. There is safe to overtake but I feel I may stall the car while overtake or it will lug, hence I am not confident with overtake give pass to others to go ahead and I keep speeding behind slow moving vehicle. 3. Keep car steady and in control on BAD pothole roads and speed breakers - This situation I can experience on country side or the road with construction going on . I slow the speed and put car to 2nd gear but still the car feels to wave/ wobble. 4. Judging the front of the car while parking. - Need a help with correct way to judge front of the car while front bay park in tight spaces with any reference point. Pls help with this situations with show and tell method. Advance thanks

[@forbiddencrisis4149]

Number 1 thing to do is indicate your intentions and then road positioning. The VW flashing lights was just about intimidation and being a road bully

[@hikaru9624]

Don’t flash your headlights to indicate you’re overtaking, that’s what indicators are for. They indicate your intention!

[@chrisb_rc]

Awful driving fed by awful forward planning

[@mattwoolford]

I would imagine that this entire situation was provoked by the cammer more so than any tailgating driver. Admittedly, tailgating is unsafe, however the couple vehicles that are doing this suggest that the cammer has been frustrating the drivers behind with their speed. Additionally, only this would cause a queue of traffic to build up behind the cammer. Under-speeding provokes drivers. Under-speeding provokes tailgating, and then comes the chain reaction explained in the video. Arguably, the cammer was driving with precaution to the conditions, however the conditions are only damp, and 4 vehicles managing to catch up is a big sign that the cammer’s driving was disproportionate. This is a massive presumption, but I would imagine that such a road is anywhere between 40-NSL. In fact, at the bend where the cammer approaches the driver, the speed limit does indeed change to NSL, so I can’t be far wrong. The cammer was driving around (and mostly under) 30mph. The speed limit is not a target, but if a driver can not maintain a reasonable speed I would question their competence regardless of the aftermath surrounding the cyclist. I imagine in this situation that the drivers in the queue of traffic were, by this point, identifying the cammer’s vehicle as the vehicle they needed to overtake, as much as the cyclist. Under-speeding is nearly as dangerous as over-speeding. Especially on these roads, an under-speeding vehicle is as dangerous as a stationary vehicle. Consider the bends and brows of hills on rural roads. An accident can ONLY occur in a single lane of traffic when there is a difference in speed. Controversial opinion, but I also think cycling on these roads is very hazardous and risky for the same reasons and should be avoided, however that’s a separate debate, they are still nonetheless entitled to use these roads. I honestly think that drivers who cannot drive to a reasonable speed need to go on a driving course to improve their driving standards as much as those who dangerously over-speed. When in charge of any vehicle your driving standards need to be to a competent level. By “competent” I refer to the confidence, knowledge and ability in operating the vehicle you are in charge of. If a driver is not confident in their driving, how is a passenger or any other driver around them supposed to be? Would you board an aircraft if the captain announced he wasn’t as confident a pilot flying it but reckoned he could still give it a shot? I for sure wouldn’t. On a personal note, I also think to drive so far under the speed limit is inconsiderate driving. This is why you get penalised in your driving test if you drive too far under the speed limit, as “unnecessary hold up of traffic”. One thing is being late, and that’s your own fault, another thing is being on time but being made late because you are caught behind a driver who fails to drive at a reasonable speed for the length of your journey. This is all too common in the UK, and most commonly with people who drive 40mph everywhere, regardless of the speed limit. Ashley, I’m interested in hearing your opinion on under-speeding and the risks involved. It’s not often talked about as much as over-speeding.

[@retroonhisbikes]

How long were the drivers delayed? The camera car was only delayed a few Minutes. Yet the over taking van risks everything for a few seconds

[@LoadingGames.]

Where is the risk??

[@keith6400]

If the cammer had stayed behind the cyclist and moved half a car width wide at around 1:14 his view ahead would have improved enormously and reduced the possibility of him being overtaken. Changing down to second gear would give him an enormous amount of potential acceleration. He would still have an opportunity to abort and move back in left if oncoming traffic was an issue. The speed differential between cyclist and car if huge and an overtake could be completed in seconds if the road ahead was clear.

[@mingiasi]

i had similar situation on one of my exam days. what locked me up and failed me was the space requirement on overtaking cyclist by law. I was afraid of "not giving him enough sideways clearance" and to make it worse I was facing blind curve going downhill (limited view) plus solid line in the middle of the road also.

[@computerpro5341]

An important point with the slow acceleration past the cyclist is the gear. They could've been in a high gear which meant that flooring it would do very little. A lower gear should've been used for the acceleration.

[@RushfanUK]

I get the feeling that the speed limit prior to the NSL signs was probably higher than 30mph, it doesn't excuse the van drivers tail gating but does possible explain that and why they have a bunch of drivers behind on a relatively quiet road. Everything that then happens is because of the drivers actions when they get to the cyclist, this was a simple overtake that could have been executed quickly and safely, you would expect a competent and careful driver to have made this overtake without any issue and certainly without what actually happened. In reality pretty awful actions by the cammer driver.

[@TimRsn]

If you’re being tailgated by vehicles that want to go fast, aren’t you supposed to go slow and let them pass? The cyclist offered the perfect opportunity. Then when they’ve gone overtake and carry on. I was nearly hit while out running by a 4x4 tailgating a van. The van left it far too late to pull out and drive past me and the 4x4 didn’t see me until it was too late. Tailgating is crazy.

[@CyclingUpsideDown]

If this camera car is unfamiliar with the road, I can understand why they didn't go at 1:25. It might just be the camera skewing the view, but it isn't obvious to me that there's a clear view ahead at the top of the hill. However once the van and other car go, and show that there is, then there was plenty time and space to overtake even before the VW flashed.

[@josephmarsh8235]

So far Ashley the scariest overtaken I've seen this year near me is what I call impatient Volvo lorry. It over took at about 61mph me, lorries and even terribly made drivers brake and sound horn. It was too far ahead of road for me to capture on dash cam.

[@PaulL42654]

Damn the beard looking hella fine with this 4k quality

[@VFRrider]

They don't know how to use a gearbox. That was appalling driving, and they need some lessons. The hand at the mirror was an apology for such incompetence. .

[@marklittler784]

I didn't notice a signal given by any of the vehicles behind that they were going to carry out an overtaking maneuver, not one, to the driver in front or those behind maybe that's a reason why the driver hesitated to overtake in case those extremely close behind started to overtake them without a signal mind you some were so close you probably wouldn't have seen it anyway.

[@diversionbob8482]

It's up to the camer behind the cyclist when they overtake the cyclist, not a democratic vote of the vehicles behind the camer. The camer was not impeding the others, it looks like he had decided to let them all past, as they seem in such a rush. The title of this clip should have a question mark not an exclamation mark at the end of it. The camers driving was safe at all times.

[@colinjames5643]

They got too close to the cyclist and therefore lost speed making a quick overtake harder if your vehicle lacks acceleration. By hanging further back, you can have a little bit of a run up to the overtake when it becomes safe. You see this on motorways where drivers get too close to a lorry then can't overtake easily because they are suddenly going much slower than traffic in the next lane meaning they need a much larger gap. I suspect the cammer didn't know the road and possibly overestimates how much clear road they need to overtake safely.

[@EpicThe112]

If he were to do this on a curvy section of the Country Lane he or she could have gotten into an accident since they didn't check in front of them if there is an oncoming traffic coming at them. Speed limit on the first section was 30 miles per hour then increased to 60 miles per hour when the restrictions ended. In the United States where are roads like this it has to have a broken line on your side in order to proceed otherwise you're stuck behind a cyclist if there is a double solid yellow line that prohibits passing on both sides

[@ClimateObserver]

that hesitant drivers caution was protecting that cyclist from multiple close passes. the 1st might have been a safe pass, the 2, 3rd and 4th each getting closer and taking ever greater risks with our safety. the visibility is poor and the cyclist isnt well lit but, the oness is on the overtaking vehicle to keep clear.

[@J.L.K]

Honestly i understand about the hesitation with the van so close behind. However, when the guy flashed his lights that was a prime time to go past and yet hesitated again. Suppose hesitation was better then just charging by and causing an accident with behind but looks very poor on first viewing

[@desubtilizer]

I would have floored it at the junction where the road is the widest, get it over and done with and move on

[@Strider9655]

Just incase nobody has noticed, before the cyclist is in view the cammer is dithering about doing 28-30mph in what appears to be an NSL.

[@TheLinkoln18]

My first thoughts, other drivers were tailgating, this would not have helped the drivers nerves.

[@James-xr7pb]

No excuse for hesitation that bad on a straight clear bit of road. xD

[@andywilliams7323]

I think you've been a bit too nice & lenient on the cammer driver. The driver is clearly on a national speed limit road and travelling at just under 30mph. That's 30mph lower than he/she should be travelling at. That's dangerous. The driver then slows right down to 8mph and remains right behind the cyclist for absolutely no valid reason. The driver couldn't ask for a better view or better room to overtake the cyclist. Then when finally making the overtake, they do so at just 10mph and then eventually get back up to 30mph and again remain at 30mph, still 30mph below the speed the driver should be travelling it. I feel the driver's, driving throughout the entire clip is both appalling, careless and dangerous. It falls way below the required standard of a competent motorist. The Police are allowed and obliged to give people driving too slowly or hesitantly, either a verbal warning or a full prosecution of "careless driving" which results in a fine and penalty points. This example would almost certainly be a valid case. Furthermore, if this poor display of driving happened on a driving test I believe it would likely result in a fail. As you can fail for driving too slowly and/or with too much hesitation.

[@grahvis]

"still 30mph below the speed the driver should be travelling it." Speed limits are just that, limits, they are not a target to aspire to.

[@BatsAndNights]

Actually, it could've been 30 initially as you see the speed limit changed to a national right before the cammer was behind the cyclist. Cammer's driving was definitely not as confident as it should've been and they need to improve quite a bit, but it's worth mentioning.

[@BatsAndNights]

@@grahvis Right, lemme travel at 30 MPH on a motorway, in rush hour. I'm sure that won't utterly ruin traffic flow. Speed limits are normally where they're at for a reason. The whole idea of the speed limit is to minimise risk and maintain good traffic flow as much as possible. Obviously, that phrase does work when risk is increased (such as flooded roads, an accident further up ahead, etc) and if there are legitimate hazards and increased risk, then no, don't make driving the speed limit the absolute goal. But if there is no added risk, i.e. no reason to drive slower than the speed limit, but you are driving much slower when everyone else is at least trying to drive at the limit? You're increasing risk and making the situation more dangerous because you are hindering the flow of traffic in the name of the moral high ground. Simple as.

[@grahvis]

@@BatsAndNights . I was simply pointing out that where the speed limit is 60 mph, a person driving at 30mph is not automatically driving 30 mph slower than they should be. The speed limit is the absolute maximum - it doesn’t mean it’s safe to drive at this speed in all conditions.

[@BatsAndNights]

@@grahvis True but I'm also saying that just because it isn't safe to drive at that speed in all conditions, neither is driving 30 MPH slower. What I am also saying though is that if there is no adequate reason to be driving 30 MPH slower, then yes, they are driving 30 MPH slower than they should be for the sake of traffic flow.

[@TheUkdan02]

That was poor driving in my opinion. As soon as the 30mph limit opened up to national speed limit, there was absolutely no reason why the driver couldn't have overtaken the cyclist. I can only imagine that there are two answers to this - 1) The cammer was trying to prove a point to the tailgating van, which I doubt in this case as they remain behind the cyclist after the van has overtaken, or 2) they seriously lack confidence and the ability to safely control a car and should not be on the road as they are a danger to other road users. Might sound harsh but this is the kind of driver that joins a motorway at 40mph then stops at the give way line instead of getting up to speed to merge safely.

[@hellenstaithes6131]

SalesDriven Totally agree. This type of driver whom lacks confidence and constantly doubt themselves are the most dangerous and annoying on our roads. Appalling driving from the camera car.

[@sept1ne]

As someone who knows the road well I think I can add something here. Just before the video starts is a sharp corner followed by a steep hill. I think the cammer just didn't drive 'positively' and didn't pick up speed until the hill begins to level. The stretch of road after the NSL signs has several blind dips. Yes, it turned out that there was space to overtake safely but until the van demonstrates this it can be tricky to gauge. You don't know how quickly the road falls away after the crest. I think the cammer was aware of these dips and was extra cautious. Finally I disagree that the mini overtook well. Most of the overtake was performed with the driver's view entirely blocked by the van in front!

[@sept1ne]

Also some trivia - the stretch of road at 1:50, and the manor you can just see behind the wall at 1:48, featured in the film The Omen

[@David-sw2fn]

Septine Interesting, thank you for your local knowledge. As a stranger to those parts, even on repeated viewings I personally feel the driver was careful and not outrageously hesitant. You’re right that at one point the van makes it clear one of the dips is shallow and safe to navigate. Unfortunately I think sight of a bend ahead appears just at that moment. This probably deterred the driver moving at that point. I remain really concerned that so many people commenting have not noticed the apparent blind dips and think it would have been a good idea to just put their foot down. I’m in complete agreement with you that it would have been very difficult to gauge the dips and the extent to which they might have been hiding oncoming vehicles. This incident probably cost this driver 45-60 seconds against a risk of meeting a hidden car at a combined 100+mph. All of the other vehicles took that chance and, as I have mentioned elsewhere, were fortunate to get away with it. That may not be the case next time.

[@grahamclark4518]

THAT was painful, many many safe times to pass GO for god sake

[@bazzacuda_]

I agree @5:17, but possibly the speed registered on the camera also had a little bit of lag on it?

[@petyrkowalski9887]

The cammer was being overly cautious for sure but the cars behind were dangerous and disgraceful getting so close and taking a big risk in their overtakes. In situations like that I put my right indicator on to show the cars behind I am planning to overtake and as soon as I can see safe space…pull out and get past.

[@David-sw2fn]

I can only go on my initial look and would for the most part support the driver. Firstly, and obviously, I’m not going to overtake around a bend. For the second part there are very noticeable dips in the road. My first look perception was that these could hide an oncoming vehicle in the other lane. This is a 60mph road so a hidden car could be on me very quickly indeed if I moved to the right. I felt that the driver overtook when they could be certain the road ahead was clear and they had space and time to overtake. If others want to take the risk of colliding with an oncoming vehicle at a joint speed of 100 odd mph, that’s their risk assessment. I do feel some of the overtaking vehicles assumed rather than knew for certain the road would be empty. Perhaps my perception of the depth of the incline is way off, but I wouldn’t have risked it.

[@averyboringusername]

10:40 You say, "Make sure that you're always gonna overtake and can complete the overtake in the distance that you see as clear." That should really be something along the lines of, "complete the overtake in at most HALF the distance you see as clear." Vehicles appearing into your observable space are travelling towards you, using up that space.

[@marklittler784]

Yeah that's more like it.