Ask Adam: Why is European food bland? Are closed mussels actually bad? Career advice? (PODCAST E19)

[@aragusea]

Thanks to Shaker & Spoon for sponsoring this episode! Go to shakerandspoon.com/ragusea and use code ragusea to get $20 off your first box! Thanks to 80,000 Hours for sponsoring this episode! Start planning a career that is meaningful, fulfilling, and helps solve the world’s most pressing problems: 80000hours.org/ragusea 00:28 Why is food of Northern European origin so bland? 33:31 Advice on starting a career in creative work? 51:34 Are mussels that don't open during cooking actually dangerous? 2004 Australian government report indicating mussels that don't open during cooking are just as safe as any others: www.frdc.com.au/sites/default/files/products/2002-418-DLD.pdf

[@Rasayana85]

Could you explain to a friend of mine how to leave a comment on YT, without responding to someone else, in this day and age? I just wanted to say that lutfisk is basically the definition of bland. Surströmming is a kicker -it is however endangered, because catches of strömming has been down to 10% the last two years. At least on saltery in Sweden is closing down, and those people blame large scale trawling.

[@KongQuestCo]

Hey Adam if you put 0:00 as the first time stamp they will make chapters on the video!

[@kennethoneill4176]

A lot of food trends around the world have their roots in what rich and royals ate. Someone would find a new spice add it to the food of rich people andifit became popular among the rich it would make its way to the poor But i don’t even have a microphone just the comment section

[@danny80268]

Boo sheetz, go wawa!!

[@mishmashbyElmanAli]

hey Adam, with my wife's advice, i listened to some of your content, although i cant cook that well, nor that i will repeat those cookings :) Just i liked your content. 33:31 was particularly interesting for me. Now i understand why am i spending hours editing my friend's videos, although I desperately need to do them on my channel too. I have no deadline, no commitment... but If I promise her, the guilt, the pride kicks in, so i deliver :) Have a great day, keep up the great work !!!

[@yuvvrajkperson]

Im an indian and have found myself in Poland this year. One of my biggest realisations of simplicity is fish. My mom in india cooks all fish in a similar way. The same few masalas, the same few ingredients. Here i was served a fish with salt and pepper, and fried with a bit of oil. Thats it. I tasted the fish. I understood the flavour of the fish. I had a different fish. I tasted the difference in the fish. I could never do that in india. I like this simplicity too

[@vespasiancloscan7077]

I LOVE that about food and especially fish. One of the reasons I value a nigiri so much more than all the Western sushi rolls that might be made with different fish, but they all got some cream cheese or other ingredients obscuring the differences between the fish.

[@meowmeow5973]

@Túrórudi Just a Czechia and Slovakia in between.

[@Minecraftrok999]

@Túrórudi that is true of course, but there are broader, discernable traits and trends that do make it sensible to group certain countries together. Compared to India there is no country in Europe I know of (and I've been to 25 for at least a week each) that comes remotely close to the richness/intensity and variety of spices that they use in India. Well I say India, but the country is so huge and diverse that the same point you make about countries in a continent applies the same to them.

[@Dosadniste2000]

@araeriferiu Numbing hotness that kills taste buds is neither rich nor tasty.

[@radicalpaddyo]

This guy gets it

[@filomenaa]

I feel a lot of the perceived "blandness" comes from how Americans were taught to cook in the 40s and 50s. If you read what Mark Twain has to say about American food, it is radically different from what we associate with the post-war period. It's also worth noting that there used to be strong prejudice against ingredients like garlic which are used liberally in various European cuisines.

[@raybod1775]

Julie Child started the big change

[@raven3moon]

It's not just Americans that say it, though. People from all the other inhabited continents also say it. Also, that argument doesn't take culinary fashion and tends, class and social status into account. It also doesn't account for the historical medicinal use of food and herbs in food, as well as post-war ingredient shortages.

[@ShnoogleMan]

What was pre-war food like?

[@raybod1775]

@@ShnoogleMan Root vegetables and lots of fatty meats. Spices were usually salt and pepper. Foods in season were better. Desserts had more intense flavors than what’s usually around today, very rich with butter or lard, and sugar. Personal experience from my mother’s cooking and ethic German neighborhoods which carried on pre-WWII foods. I greatly prefer Asian cooking, though occasionally I’ll make a food, especially deserts from my youth.

[@AmandaFromWisconsin]

The person who was asking the question was from Scandinavia, not America.

[@motoristan7707]

As someone of Asian origin I can say some of the strongest and most intense flavours I ever had I found in traditional German cuisine don't let cliches cloud your vision. from traditional Rouladen, Ox cheeks in a black beer sauce to a warm hot nice intensely flavoured mushroom pan or a horse meat based Sauerbraten or a wonderfully braised Rehrücken. just amazing

[@melanieenmats]

I agree. I think the more relevant aspect is why they eat spicy food in hot countries. There are plenty of flavors in northern cuisine. But there aren't such spicy foods. Now that spices are available still, people in the cold regions still prefer less spicy food. I live in northern Europe, and if you would sell Indian or Thai food here with the normal amount of hotness as I experienced in those countries... People get angry and demand their money back. All Asian cuisine in Europe is way less hot than originally, and you can see that in restaurants there is much information about spiciness to avoid clients getting angry. They want Asian food but with only a tiny amount of chili.

[@Sundara229]

@@melanieenmats I think it's that cultures have a habit of persistance. People aren't willing in adapting different habits, especially if there's no pressure in doing so. Hence why "foreign" foods all over the world will be more or less altered to cater towards domestic taste buds.

[@corinneskitchen]

That's interesting because I so much can't relate. I love trying things that are totally new to me and prefer when they aren't catered towards American taste buds, but I also like foods that are such as American Chinese food.

[@shinnam]

But do you think that is because those German foods were unfamiliar flavours? In the 90's in Korea, I would make salsa and Mexican food for my students, thinking they would love it, but they thought it was very strong flavoured. Now that younger Koreans are familiar with the flavours they love it. I like to think I had a bit to do with introducing Mexican to Korea. (Couldn't be Koreans moving back from California and Mexico 🙃)

[@jcl5345]

@@shinnam Funny, my mother who was Korean (she's passed) loved Italian food - not cream sauces, but did not like Mexican foods. She ate these foods at restaurants and sometimes cooked them at home. She loved pastas with meat and red sauce, lasagne, olives, basil, etc. Maybe she didn't like Cilantro? Don't know

[@barbarab9375]

What seems to be forgotten in this spices/spiciness discussion is fermentation/ pickling. Strong flavors are brought in with vinegar, pickles, and other fermented items.

[@just83542]

He absolutely mentored acid and salt, which is vinegar and pickling. But you're right in that he mostly missed intentional fermentation, though he did indirectly allude to it by mentioning lutefisk and kraut.

[@monikaarbogast9239]

there is also horseradish and mustrard

[@Xeno1798]

@@just83542 But also he mentioned the coloquial usage of black pepper out of habit and I have a feeling it has something more to do with pickling so I think it does need its own seperate in depth video

[@mordekaihorowitz]

@@monikaarbogast9239 Love horseradish

[@notsoreverendbecca2308]

We're also missing things like the creative use of seasonal greens that also have strong flavors (watercress, landcress, sorrel, etc), and seeds like dill and caraway. A slice of dried ginger with crushed mustard can make you sweat, and caraway is hard to miss even when whole.

[@ocatwam5890]

Funny story about salt: we have a folk tale where a king banishes her daughter because she said "i love you like people love salt", and then gets revenge by arranging for a feast where no food was salted. After all the food predictably tasted like nothing, the king realizes his mistake, welcomes her back and gives her his greatest kingdom

[@hhiippiittyy]

I like that one.

[@jabariwiththebois5765]

We tell that story a lot in Portugal

[@auricia201]

I remember that story! I'm also from Portugal

[@hannahseling1513]

Oh I loved that one growing up. Are you also German? In the version my mom told of "Salz ist wertvoller als Gold" people also started growing sick, because there was no more salt around for food preservation before the king called back the princess.

[@mlem6951]

Ohhh, i know this story :D. I'm from germany and my grandma told me a lot of these old storys. Nostalgia~

[@mygetawayart]

As an Italian, southern italian, the whole notion of "European food = bland" has always seemed strange to me, because of the food i'm used to. As you said, you can call Italian food many things but bland isn't one of them. That being said, as i grew up i started expanding by gastronomical vocabulary and realized that up north, things are much different, even in northern, mountainous Italy, things are vastly different, where there is a stronger emphasis on cheeses, meats and hearty vegetables. Thing is, that's not what i grew up with. I grew up with Calabrian chili peppers, Arab-Sicilian couscous, Sardinian sheep cheeses, Roman pastas and all manners of scrumptious and delicious goodies from Naples (aswell as other food items from other parts of Italy) and i bet people from Greece, Spain, Northern Africa and the Levant can share this experience. It is also true that, like other parts of Europe, Italian food emphasizes simplicity and genuinity of the main ingredients, although the reason why it's so simple it's not to be researched in the Nouvelle Cuisine movement (apart from really the last 30 years) but more in the fact that Italian cuisine developed from poor people, who didn't have access to tons of ingredients and just used what grew in the fields or what was available at the local market. Yet our food is not as spiced as

[@SarionFetecuse]

We get it you (The italian) are a darkie🤮

[@corinneskitchen]

Same, as a descendant of Sicilians in the United States, whether it's a traditional Sicilian recipe or Italian American restaurant food, it's not bland.

[@NikoBellaKhouf2]

I identify as a Palestinian but my DNA is Sardinian, Greek, Armenian, and Canaanite. I agree with you. Our experiences with food are very similar or sometimes nearly identical. The Mediterranean has the best food in the world.

[@farrex0]

But one important thing she said, "compared to the rest of the world". I would say Italian food is the least bland food in Europe, or among them. But most of Europe uses way less spices and herbs than Italians. And she specifically said "A lot of Europe", so I do not think she had Italy in mind, when saying that. But even then, if you compare Italian food to Indian, Chinese, Mexican, or any other famous non-western cuisine. Usually, the other cuisines use way more spices, flavors and is generally "less bland". Now Italian food is among my favorite cuisines, so I wouldn't describe it as bland, but it is bland if you compare it to Mexican food, for example. And that is what she is doing, she isn't saying it is completely bland, she is comparing it to the rest of the world and wondering why European food is blander than the rest of the world. It might not seem like that to you, since you live there. But as a Mexican myself, I often have Italian food when i want something simpler with more delicate and subtle flavors. But then, I wouldn't call it bland, just blander than what I am used to. And Italian cuisine, is one of the least bland European cuisines, and notice that she is talking about most of Europe, not all of it.

[@corinneskitchen]

@@farrex0 If you actually look at which cuisines are bland, the less bland cuisines are near the equator while more bland cuisines are farther from it. Has nothing to do with the continents themselves.

[@zverlibre]

One funny thing to consider is what flavours we perceive as strong. As a Russian, I use dill a lot, and to me dill is a fairly neutral, subtle flavour. From the various (derisive) foreigners' accounts of dill-heavy Russian food, I get that it's not how they perceive it at all. Conversely, I could never understand rosemary (virtually unknown in Russian cuisine) which to me just smells like a hospital.

[@maskaliki]

IMHO, dill is really mild stuff, and a typical borsh should be served with a spoon of sour cream and some chop-chopped dill (укроп), no other way round! I hear coriander leaves are more a point of contention. In Russia, it comes more from the Caucasus cuisines (кинза) and people really argue, either hate it or love it.

[@spindriftdrinker]

"Rosemary smells like a hospital". What the hey ? Rosemary is the finest spice there is - similar to thyme and sage. Oregano is farther apart from those three. I use it in all kinds of things : bread, potatos, meats, eggs...

[@ibarskiy]

@@spindriftdrinker You take the concept of "let me listen to the point you make and try to understand it from your perspective" and just chuck it out the window. Well done. To reiterate what the poster was saying: your perception of certain flavors is highly cultural / based on what you are accustomed to. To someone unaccustomed to it, rosemary is a strong and somewhat medicinal flavor.

[@MMMHOTCHEEZE]

@@spindriftdrinker you are missing one. Parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme.

[@kiliang96]

I think if you use a lot of just one thing, even if it's mild, it just saturates your palate eventually and that may be the case for dill in those recipes, never tried them but I've seen them online and there's a lot of dill hahaha

[@josephsullivan7645]

I've eaten bland food all over the world. They don't serve us the plaint white rice and plain boiled chicken in the asian, african, or middle eastern restaurents we get in the west, but that kind of thing is eaten extensiviely throughout those regions. So our perception of world food is skewed

[@bryanboone7363]

I agree. I have eaten over at my Chnse friends house and we had plain whte rice, oven baked chicken wings, and boiled broccoli. No spices at all. They didn't even have salt in the house. In order to make it taste like anything, I mixed it all together and poured soysauce all over it. One of the favorite foods of the daughter is Spanlsh rice and it makes the mother so mad that the daughter doesn't like just plain whte rice like the mom does.

[@lifeofabronovich7792]

Yeah, I was in Korea a few months ago and I actually was surprised at how I didn't find the food there as spicy as what I'd get in Korean places here in America. Some dishes were straight up bland, in fact. My parents are from India though and what we eat at home is generally as spicy or even spicier than what you'd get in restaurants. Granted, the dishes we eat every day are a lot simpler and usually just consist of some vegetables sauteed with some spices to make a curry, and we usually eat that with rice or rotis.

[@lifeofabronovich7792]

@@scrooglemcdoogle Yeah, you are so right lol. One of my favorite things I ate in Korea was this hamburger roll sort of thing that was filled with sweetened cream cheese and dipped in garlic butter before baking. My sister and I shared one and I felt like crap after eating it since it was so heavy, but it was 100% worth it. I'm guessing these kinds of foods stem mostly from American influence, which if that's the case, I think it's safe to say the Koreans have beat us at our own game.

[@Ty4ons]

My favorite part of living in northern China was tasting bland ordinary food. Some of the dishes reminded me of traditional Norwegian dishes. This is amplified by northern Chinese cuisine being a lot less spicy than the southern styles we're used to like Sichuan. I feel like Chinese mantou is peak blandness. If you like good European style bread you'll be really disappointed in China.

[@vitriolicAmaranth]

I commented about this in a reply elsewhere in these comments but Mexican food is an interesting example. Real mexican food is often unspiced or light on spice and even heavily fermented like a lot of traditional European food, but because most Americans only know tex-mex, they think that's what all Mexican food is like- Heavily-spiced meat and beans rolled up in a soft tortilla.

[@jrd33]

In British cooking, spicy elements are often added to a meal at the table, rather than being incorporated during cooking. Salt and pepper, vinegar, horseradish, English mustard, pickled onions (and other pickled vegetables, such as Branston pickle) are by no means bland. I assume this is done to accommodate people who are eating together but have very different tolerances to spicy food (such as families with young children).

[@bramstokes7156]

That is really great.

[@Ohnoitswomp]

In the US that’s typically why diner food is bland, but it’s also “insulting” to the chef to add anything and not how it was intended. I feel adding what I like to the dish for my own taste is better than not eating it because it’s not salty enough for my palate

[@rw4025]

Few things are more annoying to me than people saying British food is bland. In my fridge I generally have English mustard, Branston pickle, and some kind of blue cheese. They might not be to your personal taste and that's fine, but nobody can persuade me that any of those 3 things are bland.

[@Not-Ap]

Meaning people who act like your trying to shove rat poison down there throat by making them eat something that's even remotely green or not meat looking.

[@brightmoon7132]

I think it depends on what people think is "bland." My heretige is mainly Irish, Polish, German and Swedish, and I learned to cook from my mother and grandmothers. Nearly everything they made had onions, garlic, celery, sage, thyme, summer savory, mushrooms, rosemary, etc. Maybe I'm hoplessly Western, but this is not bland to me.

[@redacted_vombat5742]

@@hhjhj393 I get what you mean but "fIgHt mE" and "mInOriTiE" sound like you got triggered because a poc said "wht food bland". Of course, I'm not white ( tho I do cringe and think it's goofy to make their whole identity based on the skin they were born with, case being you I assume.) But cheesy food, Italian food are tasty and salt does add a reasonable flavor even as a stand alone seasoning.

[@Sundara229]

@@hhjhj393 Yet you're grumpy about it.

[@itsmederek1]

@@redacted_vombat5742 Bro if u aint white you aint right, is what ma daddys daddy always said. JK haha. It does sound very strange to use 'minorities' in that way like he is being 'attacked' by non-whites constantly. Must be a very stressful life.

[@Warmaka]

We can also turn this argument around and claim that Europeans have just a better sense of taste and thus can savour the complex aroma present in the ingredients xD

[@19throse40]

@@hhjhj393 ok whitie

[@red2theelectricboogaloo961]

i don't know, i think the question about european food is kind of unfair. me being someone who personally loves indian and middle eastern food, i can say that it's not bland really at all. i mean, the first thing to get over is that spices are not the only way to flavor things. herbs, fermentation, searing, reduction, roasting, smoking, brining, it's all pretty common in western cuisine too. so, asking the question of why they like "bland" food is kind of loading the premise there that the only way to flavor things is by use of spices. it'd be like going in the other direction and asking why [insert group of people] doesn't do what we do and let the flavor shine through. they do, but they sometimes use spices as a component of that. in the same way that we in the west don't often use spices but do use various methods to flavor things. i mean, i also like plenty of supposedly bland foods from northern europe/north america. there's no indication they even have less flavor as the caller said.

[@rdizzy1]

Not really, they are just using a different definition of bland than you are, and only speaking in terms of spices.

[@red2theelectricboogaloo961]

@@rdizzy1 well that's exactly the thing i'm criticizing here: the attitude that spices and ONLY spices make things flavorful.

[@jaimepujol5507]

@@red2theelectricboogaloo961 thank you, it's almost like we are ignoring lemons here, which add a very strong flavor by themselves

[@red2theelectricboogaloo961]

@@jaimepujol5507 yeah, certainly. and things like cheese, or pickles, or pepper, which as it turns out, is also a spice. once again i should stress: these other cuisines out there are also great! but it's not based on the facts if you try to prove one is better than another, since food is something that is really subjective in the first place.

[@rdizzy1]

@@red2theelectricboogaloo961 No, I mean they are saying that the food is bland in terms of herbs and spices, not in totality. That is common usage of the term bland, when it comes to dishes, referring to herbs and spices. And bland does not inherently mean "bad" either, there are no negative connotations behind "bland". You can have great food that is "bland".

[@sudazima]

im fascinated by the fact that tomato is now seen as quintessential italian when it only came to italy like 300 years ago. or potatos in mainly north european dishes. a local old product here (netherlands) is a super strong mustard, not very bland when the rest maybe is.

[@corinneskitchen]

I agree, turns out there are a ton of Sicilian dishes with potatoes and dishes like pizza and pasta and others without tomatoes lol

[@ericktellez7632]

Tomatoe is seen as italian by Europeans or white people only, most Latin Americans do not associate it to Italy since it is from here, idk about africans or asians though but i doubt they do the same

[@corinneskitchen]

@@ericktellez7632 I've barely used tomatoes on my Sicilian cooking channel so far.

[@OndraUrban]

Here in czech we have famous tale "Salt above gold" by Božena Němcová. The storry in nutshell: King asks his daughters how much they love him. One of his daughters answers that she lovs him as much as salt. King gets angry and banishes his daughter telling her to come back when salt is more expensive then gold and diamonds. Some time later salt in his kingdom magicly melts and none of the food he is served tastes well since cook cant use salt. People and animals start to get sick but luckily his daughter returns with salt saving whole kingdom.

[@MissDatherinePierce]

We have that tale in Germany too. It is often called The Salt Princess.

[@TheMelopeus]

In Romania we call it "the salt in your food"

[@NapsAndNoodles]

An old English version is called Cap O' Rushes (because the exiled princess disguises herself by dressing in rushes), and it has a Cinderella-like ending: after sneaking into the ball and dancing with the prince for 3 nights, and cooking him salted gruel when he's lovesick each of the next 3 days (and slipping a golden spindle, thimble, and ring into the bowls of gruel), he figures out the kitchen girl Cap O' Rushes is the princess at the ball and marries her. She tells the cook to put no salt in any dish at the wedding feast, and invites all the nearby royalty, including her father. Her father tries a bite of every dish and starts weeping, saying it all tastes bland and horrible, and he now realizes that the salt princess loved him best of all. Then the princess reveals herself to him and forgives him, and he gives her his blessing, and they all live happily (and salty?) ever after.

[@metalblind95]

I’d like to add that, being from France, the cuisine here gets its flavours from herbs, salt, and also, -that’s important-, fat. A sauce based on cream or butter will enhance any flavour that you put in it, be it lemon, pepper, parsley etc. And I agree about Japan having in common with the west. A lot of their cuisine philosophy just resonates with what I learned growing up, emphasising season, the product itself, the terroir… and as a matter of fact, Japanese chef and french chef tend to cooperate often with great success in recent years.

[@wiseSYW]

wwhich is why michelin loves to give stars to japanese restaurants

[@vhawk1951kl]

you no doubt bear in mind that the word cuisine is simply the French word for kitchen. Very few kitchens "get flavour".

[@ipsman2011]

All peoples of the world ate seasonal and fresh, except the Europeans, who had to preserve things for winter. In Asia, foods change as per season and all year round fresh seasonal produce is available. Prior to refrigeration, no one ate stale or out of season. In fact in homes in India, they still don’t inspite of owning a fridge.

[@vhawk1951kl]

@@ipsman2011 how do you know that"All peoples of the world ate seasonal and fresh, except the Europeans, who had to preserve things for winter. "? Exactly how many peoples are there in the world and exactly how many of them have you canvassed? I would try to avoid universals if I were you for rather obvious reasons in a small child could explain to you.

[@metal_monocle7334]

That’s simply not true. Preservation due to harsh winters is mostly an issue in northern Europe and Scandinavia especially. In Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Bulgaria etc. you’d preserve because of flavour; not winter.

[@bmanpura]

Funny Alena asked that : As a Chinese descent in Indonesia, I found out during my trip in China that.. 1. Northern Chinese cuisine is kind of bland. 2. The further south you go, the more varied added spices get. Also, they do tend to get saltier, with exceptions. 3. Chinese inland and Chinese over here disagree on dried chili pepper vs. fresh chili pepper. Chinese inland prefer dried, at least those I met. EDIT : Dude, thanks for the really good things you say at 40:00. Thank you for sharing the wisdom..

[@benedeknagy8497]

Maybe those who live in the south in hotter climate sweat more, and lose salt. So their body craves more salty food to replace the loss.

[@roflcopterIII]

Yeah I was going to say, it's def not limited to northern Europeans. I think there's just less northern Chinese and Mongolian people in the english speaking parts of the web, so it's not covered in discussions that much. Cold climates just suck for decent spices

[@corinneskitchen]

@@roflcopterIII Also far Northern & Southern (Indigenous) American food....blander. Historically I believe, it's part of a tradeoff - colder climates are safer from outside attack but less desirable to live in.

[@TheThreatenedSwan]

Yes, there is a North-South cline in Europe too, though it is less pronounced than in China. Wheat vs rice is also in a North-South cline to the genetic level. Southern Chinese don't have as good a sense of taste due to less stable conditions, food rot, parasite pressure, etc.

[@michaelcoletta4547]

The further north you go (at least in the Northern Hemisphere) the less spices were necessary for anti-spoilage measures. It is somewhat intuitive, whether in Europe or Asia.

[@Goldtiger927]

People who say Northern European food is bland, are just straight up taking for granted good quality ingredients they have easily available. That was for a long not to so easy for most people to afford even in Northern Europe. In the UK at least, any dish made with offal or meat from an animal that is old when slaughtered that most people ate is far from bland. Very strong flavours.

[@vhawk1951kl]

I wonder who might describe the taste of mustard as "bland".

[@philipe1502]

In Northern Europe most of the food are highly processed, frozen or simply not fresh. That makes ANY dish bland.

[@vhawk1951kl]

@@philipe1502 Who told you that and why do you believe them? Northern Europe being north of where?If in doubt go for vague sweeping generalisations, and at all costs *avoid* specifics

[@hux2000]

People who say Northern European food is bland are ignorant and usually bigoted people.

[@hux2000]

@@philipe1502 Complete nonsense. Every country in Northern Europe has wide access to fresh, unprocessed food. And what does "highly processed" even mean anyway? Cheese is inherently "highly processed". Wine is inherently "highly processed". It's as if you're trying to imply that everyone in Northern Europe eats frozen, pre-prepared microwave food and nothing else.

[@kricku]

I've seen foreigners open cans of fermented herring. They don't seem to think it's _bland_

[@oskarileikos]

Hahahahaha yea that stuff makes your eyes, ears and nose bleed

[@GuyWithAnAmazingHat]

This is in the same vein as the Darwinian Gastronomy topic mentioned in the video, a lot of cultures developed fermentation as an accident and those fermented food "survived" past being rotten and became edible.

[@vitriolicAmaranth]

I'm pretty sure the asker is Swedish and Sweden has a strong culture of self-deprecation; it's impolite to be proud or even self-confident, and it's a kind of virtue-signaling to show people that you loathe the things you or people like you do. May or may not seem weird to you, but most cultures have things like that which seem weird to other cultures (an easy one to explain and a very common one is eye contact, which almost always has heavy social connotations, but in some societies looking someone in the eye is seen as incredibly disrespectful and in others avoiding eye contact is seen as both disrespectful and suspicious- this small, possibly subconscious bit of cultural mismatch can also lead to prejudice and cultural tension when, for example, an American keeps meeting Middle Eastern people who avoid their gaze, and thinks they're up to something, or vice versa, when a Japanese person keeps meeting American people who show aggression by staring them down (ie trying to maintain eye contact because it's polite in America)).

[@yunoletmehaveaname]

Fermented herrings are dope

[@kricku]

@@vitriolicAmaranth I'm swedish and the asker sounds Dutch or something to me, but whatever, I can give my take on the self-deprecation thing. It's like the two things you get to take pride in is being ordinary and struggling. But it's more like an ego boost, really. Like, "That doctor-philantropist think he is something with his degree and giving to the poor. Well I'm a factory worker that doesn't think highly of himself and that makes me the better person, so there!" Now, white collar people that are better off CANNOT do this and therefore have to invent special ways to get some ego boost. (like tanking the whole country, _some_ _would_ _say_ ) And just today I met a co-worker outside who asked "How are things?" I replied "Pure hell" with a big smile.

[@Croz89]

I think in some ways we approach what kind of foods are "bland" from a western centric perspective. An excellent example of this is dairy, particularly cheese. Thanks to pervasive lactose tolerance, europeans have gotten very used to consuming dairy. We don't tend to think of dairy products, save for the most pungent of cheeses, to be particularly strong or flavourful. But to a Chinese person, as was explained to me, a lot of european food has this strong "dairy" or "cheesy" flavour that most europeans just don't notice because we are so used to it. Even when it comes to bad breath, while a european may complain that a Chinese person's breath is too garlicky, for example, a Chinese person will complain that a westerner's breath smells too "milky".

[@boh365]

"Thanks to pervasive lactose tolerance, europeans have gotten very used to consuming dairy." It's actually the other way around: Thanks to consuming dairy, Europeans over time developed pervasive lactose tolerance.

[@Croz89]

@@boh365 Well yes, evolutionary speaking, but I think the meaning is obvious here. Lactose tolerance is what allows europeans to continue consuming so much dairy, otherwise it wouldn't be very pleasant.

[@ivanivanovic5857]

@@boh365 Yeah, and then all the great nutrients from the dairy allowed us to grow big and strong, then we went and conquered other places and stole all their spices. Just like when the Mongols ate a load of yoghurt and then invaded the rest of the world lol. If you look at militarily dominant nations across history, you'll notice most of them were mostly populated by lactose tolerant ethnicities.

[@Dosadniste2000]

we approach blandness from ppl envious of US whites.

[@Croz89]

@@ivanivanovic5857 Yoghurt is low in lactose mind you.

[@Nesque]

The generalization of "European" food is absolutely nuts... Europe stretches all the way from unlivable wind and cold to warm oceanside paradises. Even going "Northern Europe" encapsulates so many different countries, some sharing cousine and others not. It's likely because I live in Sweden that I find it strange that I get lumped together with Germany which is firmly in the south. There are ~7 soverign nations north of Germany, while Sweden and Norway share history, even our cousines are not interchangable. Adam rocks, but I'm certain he didn't expect this ire to grow from taking such a question :)

[@ratoh1710]

And then you can include us here in Denmark, where while also sharing a deep and intertwined history and culture with Norway and Sweden, our food is far from yours. We share more in common with German, French, and British food but still, our food is very different. So many different climates birthed vastly different food cultures and cultures more broadly. So often Europe is treated as one big unified block of culture but there is no such thing as a united European culture. In fact, this happens to almost every culture. The biggest one possibly is Africa which most people know so little about they think of it as a single culture, but it is absolutely not.

[@gtw1200]

@@ratoh1710 Danish pork steak with potatoes and betroot is a banger, just love the chewy crispy fat crust on that steak.

[@MissDatherinePierce]

Even as a German, there is a big difference between the cuisine of the North, which is known for many fish dishes, and the South. And then there is also the East and West divide. Food is extremely regional.

[@Nesque]

@@ratoh1710 I'm sorry, I don't accept Danish sovereignty. So not really sure what you're on about there... You mean that speck of lack between sweden and germany? The land most reasonably people see as Swedish, that land? Hehehehhe

[@ileutur6863]

@@Nesque what

[@momoogge4289]

European food? Ever eaten something Polish, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Spanish, idk everybody's favourite Italian??? It's still Europe ya know?

[@lifeofabronovich7792]

Agreed, it's mostly northern Europe that has the stereotypically "bland" dishes and even then, there are some good things to be found

[@novisun]

Yes, but it was made by the dreaded "White People", so she no doubt hates it.

[@thesupreme8062]

@@lifeofabronovich7792 and calling it bland is to be honest plainly wrong, it's simple food, I find simple meals to be comforting.

[@lifeofabronovich7792]

@@thesupreme8062 the simplest dishes always taste the best. My parents are from India and my mom makes a dish called rajma chawal which is basically just kidney beans cooked in ground up tomatoes and onions and served with rice. It doesn't sound like much but it's absolutely divine

[@jaimepujol5507]

@@lifeofabronovich7792 Spanish omelette, potatoes and eggs, is as simple as it gets, and we have cult-like veneration for it

[@audgepodge381]

Smoked salmon is popular in Finland and it’s mostly definitely not bland! Pickled anything are my favorites. Japanese cuisine also has a dish (an early one) of fermented fish. I don’t remember what it’s called. I love spicy food, however I tend to prefer more earthy flavors like mushroom, savory, rosemary, sage. you know !

[@qutdam2022]

Roasting as well as Smoking are used in northern Europe to develop complicated flavors instead of seasonings, like roasted vegetable soup, and roasted meat.

[@hypothalapotamus5293]

IMO, they had a lot of spices in India and Africa. They cultivated the hell out of nightshades (tomatoes, peppers, and potatoes) in the Americas. However, much of East Asia is not well endowed with spices. Removing the Columbian exchange ingredients, most complaints about European cuisine can also be made about Cantonese, Japanese, and Korean cuisine.

[@junahsong130]

You mean the original sushi

[@shinnam]

Salmon is "not bland" but that is a quality of the fish meat, not from spices. Just like goat isn't bland compared to lamb.

[@iNeverSimp]

Smoked salmon is bland. Go back to your bowl of boiled potatoes. Just kidding.

[@philpaine3068]

I grew up under the impression that "Canadian" food was without spices --- even French Canadian cuisine, which I grew up with, relied mostly on black pepper and herbs like sage and rosemary. Then, while hitching through an Alberta town, I found an old local cookbook, the kind put together by one of those "ladies' associations" normal in small Canadian towns. It dated from around 1900. Most of the dishes were for ranchers or cowboys, which composed nearly all the population. So what did these cowboys eat? Fiery hot chilis, spicy spicy curries (good recipe for curried buffalo stew), and all manner of foods that a 1950s Canadian would have been terrified of. No shortage of Chinese dishes, either. Cowboy chow would have challenged the most daring of today's foodies. More recently, I came upon an old French Canadian cookbook. Again, most of the recipes dated from before WW1. Same thing --- hot hot hot, spicy spicy spicy. Curries like crazy, middle eastern dishes, gut-renching horseradish, goulash as strong as any in Budapest, hot peppers everywhere. I realized that the whole "peas and carrots and potatoes boiled until they are white" thing was something that took over after WW2 and there was nothing "Canadian" about it. It was probably the result of millions of young post-war wives, inexperienced cooks, living in the suburbs without the grannies and other relatives nearby to pass on their experience ---- combined with the mass-marketing of industrial packaged foods. I asked my mother what she ate in her childhood in the 1920s. This confirmed my suspicions. Her family was big, poor, and working class. But she often ate Malpeque oysters and plenty of spicy food that you would pay big bucks for in a fashionable restaurant today.

[@Longlius]

Also can't forget the influence of the Great Depression. Fresh produce and spices became very rare and the generation that lived through the depression carried the habits for a long time and passed them off to their kids (the silents and boomers).

[@bcpr9812]

I'd love to see Glenn And Friends Cooking try to recreate some of those recipes. That's right up his alley.

[@philpaine3068]

@@Longlius A good point. Another thing was a desire to "integrate" among first-generation European immigrants and their children. Spices and strong foods were associated in peoples' minds with immigrant life in the urban ghetto. As soon as they got suburban homes, all the old peppery sausages and and spicy recipes vanished from their minds, something from the bad old past that should be forgotten. What did "real" Americans like? Oh, I guess fluffy white bread with no taste, bland factory hot dogs, and mashed potatoes with maybe a daring touch of parsley. And since that's pretty much what was available at the early suburban supermarkets, that became the national cuisine of a whole generation in the 'burbs. I knew a lady who told me that she remembered being a young wife in the fifties, and the thought of letting her parents' pumpernickel sit on the dinner table was.... well, unthinkable. This phenomenon was much less prevalent in Canada, where immigrants are not as vigorously pressured to conform, but it did have at least some influence. In the U.S. it was a real ideological thing. N.B. ---- for some mysterious reason, none of these social forces applied to Italians.

[@ruthanneluvsvacuuming6653]

My mother was raised in Placentia Bay Newfoundland in Canada and she grew up on Cod Fish, Lobster, Potatoe, Bread and Molasses and Beans for the main foods eaten. Seasoning was mainly salt as a lot of the fish and meats they ate were salted to preserve them. They also canned/bottled meats and berries and made canned jams to preserve them to be stored in the root cellar because the cellar stayed cool and dry. Her mother got meat on Sunday for their Sunday supper when the meat truck came by if she could afford the meat that Sunday. They also preserved food by hanging it on a rope in the cold waters of a running stream near the house.

[@matheuroux5134]

Yes, from what I've gathered even Bland English food has it origin in recent years, especially WW2 and the great depression

[@oliwia497]

I have a friend from China and her cooking is not bad, however it is sometimes quite bland which surprised me, since asian cuisines are thought to be loaded with flavour. The thing is, the food you are going to get at a restaurant is going to have so many more spices and so much more dimension, it’s different from what regular people cook at home. Im from Poland and theres this soup made of fermented rye, if you try it at a restaurant it is going to be soo flavourful, but f.e. when my grandma cooks it, well… not so much. I guess grass is always greener at the other side.

[@GuyWithAnAmazingHat]

Chinese cooking is extremely diverse because of their huge population and widespread culture, Sichuan for example is known for extremely spicy cuisine and they have it for all 3 meals.

[@Ash_Wen-li]

Some regional cuisines in China like Cantonese have comparatively simpler food than others

[@JakubRosman]

I lived in Poland for a year and I understand your observations on Polish food. Great food but the concept of spices and salt wasn't there. Lots of dill and pickled vegetables.

[@stultusdoesstuff8017]

i think most cuisine’s home cooking is simpler and more “bland”. I’m Chinese and my mom does not always add many spices bc she says to enjoy the flavor of the food by itself without heavy flavors. It’s a 清淡 (light) flavor. Still very valid and delicious but in a different way. It’s light and doesn’t weigh you down after eating

[@dojokonojo]

The complex and flavorful food from East Asian cuisines are typically not cooked at home since they they longer and more ingredients to prepare. That is restaurant or street food. Rice congee it's often made at home for breakfast or brunch and is considered fairly bland. (I cut in green onions and add fish sauce and pepper for flavor). Dinner is typically a base of blanched vegetables over white rice and whatever meat you feel like cooking.

[@ZekeMe0ut]

I grew up in south America where my grandma thaught me to season the meat when we weren't going to use it immediately after buying it so it would spoil slower. I like to believe the theory of preservation have some truth to it.

[@juanitacanon3120]

Lol my mom used to do this and it used to piss me off because sometime the flavours of the adobo were too strong for some recipes I wanted to do.

[@ANSELAbitsxb]

I get the thinking but in reality its only to make the meat smell better and make you think the meat is still good to eat when its not.

[@nidohime6233]

It is, spices where often used as a way to preserved meat in warm climates.

[@beactivebehappy9894]

Ithink that’s not really required in 21st century where we have the luxury of ✨refrigerator ✨

[@liamsmith4018]

@@ANSELAbitsxb unless you are upping the acidity as many marinades in fact do. Or alternatively adding quite a bit of salt. I guess peppers, herbs and spices may have some effect but without the citrus, vinegar, or salt it would be very minimal.

[@Darkasasin80]

As someone who has grown up extremely poor, I can attest that I have used spices to help cover food slightly past. It works and has helped me eat when I otherwise would not have. To discount this because you don't like some insinuation is ridiculous. Life is hard and those hardships shape culture and ways of life. Getting offended over this is sad.

[@paulblichmann2791]

I do the same thing when I have to buy a "Family Pak" of pork chops. The first ones will get salt n pepper. At the end of the week...the full spice rack will be in effect. And probably less pinkness.

[@vitriolicAmaranth]

I know, right? I grew up poor with similar experiences, and low-class restaurants and fast food places do it as much as they can get away with, too. Really rubs me the wrong way when a moderately wealthy, educated modern person says something like "people wouldn't be stupid enough to eat something that was rotting, so there's no way they'd just use spice to hide the flavour and wolf it down," either ignorant of how much that _still happens today_ or convinced that ancient man was smarter than modern man, and seemingly ignorant in either case that the choice isn't "eat rotten meat" or "don't eat rotten meat," it's "eat rotten meat" or "fucking starve."

[@JohnA...]

@@vitriolicAmaranth I'm not sure there is a specific term for it, but its basically a social version of the Dunning Kruger effect. And I agree its probably someone that has never experienced such circumstances and/or is playing the game of not wanting to "insult" another culture because of something that might seem to be negative, as well as wanting to pretend that ancient people were far smarter than they likely were when you only have to look out the window (or online for a few seconds) to find modern people who it is surprising are capable of walking and breathing at the same time without tripping on their own feet. It only makes sense that people would either not understand the issues with eating food that is going bad OR knowing quite well that they doing have anything else to eat, so a little cheap potent spice can go a long way to not starving that day.

[@ThreadBomb]

Vinegar is also good for reviving old food, getting rid of sliminess and othe bad flavors, and probably killing off some potentially dangerous microbes/mold. I suspect this is why salads in German food tend to be very acidic.

[@grantflippin7808]

@@ThreadBomb vinegar is a popular dressing in many cultures because many varieties of field lettuce are very bitter and acidity helps cut that back quite a bit.

[@buxeessingh2571]

FWIW, Let me give you the explanation on my Sikh grandmother from a farm village. They only ate animals when they were at the end of its natural life because they were needed on the farmland. They also eat every part of the animal -- some parts of which are less palatable than others. They spice meat depending on how palatable the base food is.

[@rowanyt1816]

I think to say any cuisine is bland or over spiced is just ignorance, every culture has food that is bland and food that isn’t. I’m from North Wales and many of our dishes will include multiple hers like mint, rosemary, thyme, sage, tarragon, parsley or savoury. We don’t use many spices in traditional food because we haven’t had access to spices until recently. In my hometown you couldn’t buy cumin,coriander until the 80s or even chipotle chillis until the mid to late 2000’s.

[@gholland5840]

Eh, this is talking about Northern Europe - Wales has a climate conductive to herbs. Norway for instance doesnt. Norway does not have a climate that allows for any real aromatics. Ambergris is one of the only real aromatics in that region and that is illegal now for most intents and purposes

[@rowanyt1816]

@@gholland5840 Wales does have a climate that is conductive to herbs, but is still a part of Northern Europe.

[@SviatoslavDamaschin]

You can also add dill in to the mix which has an awesome/unique flavor

[@kennyholmes5196]

Look for Joseph Sullivan's comment as well.

[@Schmuly]

@@SviatoslavDamaschin dill is absolutely fabulous one of my favorite flavors especially on carrots or potatoes and if you mix it with cream your really doing something fantastic

[@Thedarkknight2244]

As an indian, I love indian food and its deffo my core palate. That said, European food is a nice way to mix things up in my diet. If I was to sum it up. Indian food almost forces food to taste a certain way. Euro food has an appreciation for the natural taste for the core ingredients themselves. I think of the roast, english breakfast, the Italian dishes, and the texas style grilled food when I think of these foods.

[@somerandomguy84]

I’m with you. And some of the most delicious Indian food is some of the most simple, like curd rice with a little salt. Or just plain farm fresh cucumber while waiting for food.

[@otakumangastudios3617]

Not to mention, as someone who recently moved from northern United States to southern United States, oh my gosh, do people have much more of an appreciation for flavor down here than in the north! Hot chili‘s are used a lot, so, in the heart of the most white of white foods, or white of white people, whom apparently can’t handle spiciness and think mayonnaise is spicy, I now live in the birthplace of Tabasco sauce, which is by the way spicier than Sriracha. I love Sriracha but Tabasco? That stuffs way too intense for me. Again it’s about climate, and people down here love sour and savory flavors along with spicy. Also people of okra down here, and again may be part of it has to do with bordering Mexico but still, apparently the whitest of white people are from southern US, and apparently white people can’t handle mayonnaise, yet it seems like people here can consume a Carolina reaper and not bat an eye

[@jayteegamble]

Gotta say that i'm a bit appalled that you throw Texas into Europe. Texas is almost twice as far from Portugal as India is from Greece!

[@stapuft]

"texas style grilled food " its called "barbecue" (BBQ) and its only FINISHED on the grill, most of its almost 10 hour cook time involves decently low heat, and LOTS of smoke. a better example of "grilled food" is "korean grilled food" (erroneously called "korean BBQ") which is ENTIRELY cooked on the grill, in a quick amount of time, under high amounts of heat, with virtually no smoke.

[@Thedarkknight2244]

@@jayteegamble lol I mean the people of Texas originated from Europe. And also I was using Europe food as a collective term for what this guy calls white people food

[@thisguyaa63]

I think black pepper became so ubiquitous alongside salt is just the fact that it's a way to add a little bit of almost neutral heat to food. Not as strong as chilies but enough to be a flavor enhancer.

[@reginaromsey]

Try some Nigella (grains of Paradise well known in the Roman Empire) or Long Pepper, different from regular round pepper.

[@michaelcoletta4547]

Pepper also has antimicrobial activity and has health benefits separate and apart from that characteristic.

[@janetmackinnon3411]

Western Europe pioneered the Industrial Revolution. One of the results was to cut many people off from their traditional food-sources. And often factory-work left people too tired to cook---so was born fast-food. Two world wars didn't help. But if you go back far enough you will find the use of all available herbs in traditional cooking.

[@ids1024]

Good point. People may no longer have been gathering the same herbs their ancestors did when they were working in urban factories.

[@jasonmaguire7552]

Yes, Britain's culinary knowledge was deeply damaged by generations of rationing between the wars and the depression.

[@MahiMahi-yu5jo]

The opposite happened in India. During the famines of the colonial era, people stared using whatever edible plants were growing around them because they couldn't get food from regular channels. That is how we get ingredients that are very area specific. In South Karnataka, we use a berry, Usthikaya or Turkey Berry, for our curries that imparts a special sort of flavor that is hard to describe. But it makes me want to eat curries I don't eat otherwise.

[@decimusdrake5791]

@@jasonmaguire7552 Do you know any research that's been done in this area? I had the same idea but not looked more into it yet. When looking at 18th and 19th centaury English cooking there's extensive use of spices like ginger nutmeg, cloves and cinnamon so heavily spiced food was very much part of British cookery. Rationing during and after the wars makes sense as an explanation for the blander tastes of those who grew up with it.

[@vhawk1951kl]

Very few people would describe mustard as bland.

[@Nekromant1513]

Traditional northern European food is pretty awesome. Old north German and Scandinavian cuisine uses dried fruits (backed plums for example) in pretty creative ways and Eelsoup from Hamburg for example is a treat. Also the many kinds of mustard and raddish.

[@xboxgamerhr]

So basically what you're saying is that it's bad

[@azael1474]

The question is biased against "what actually is a spice?". Any strong flavoured plant should count. As an italian who lived in german, you use a lot of flavouring, even too much. Tons of mustard, horseradish, dill and other herbs, and the sweets are loaded in ginger and cloves. Maybe not a ton of variety but they definitely bold and strong spicing. But ask any ordinary american, he'll say Italian cuisine is spicier. When in reality many Italians have little tolerance for chili, knows little herbs except basil and parsley, and straight up fear "foreign" spices. It's fucking sad at times.

[@dr.doppeldecker3832]

And basically all Mediterranean countries use lots of spices and herbs^^

[@CharliMorganMusic]

American white cuisine is absolute garbage. European cuisines-not you, England-is fairly flavorful.

[@mahzorimipod]

yeah its actually really bad

[@LanceLovett]

37:50 As a former restaurant person, I totally get the glove thing. I was talking to someone yesterday about the very thing you brought up! I made the point that when your bare hands get greasy/dirty, you wash them cause it feels gross. With gloves? The motivation is not so much. I was a supervisor for a large chain and owned a restaurant for a short time. As the supervisor, I more than once caught someone after cleaning a bathroom come back and try to start handling food and forced them to wash hands/change gloves. I hope people will but know they won't think about that when they go to Sheets or wherever. Karens and Kens think about how you may be received by being a jerk to the staff making your food. Some things might be hard to detect when you take a bite.

[@Emil-sh6sq]

I occasionally work in the fruit & greens section of a supermarket/grocery store, and every time I handle a fruit/vegetable that’s gone bad I put on a new pair of gloves before I touch anything else. It just feels so wrong to keep the same pair on.

[@DaZebraffe]

Hey, let me weigh in on the "spicing things to cover tastes of spoilage" argument: As somebody raised by a mother who did this, I can guarantee you it's a habit that continues to this day, even post-refrigeration. Like Adam said, it's not like people are dumb enough to eat meat that's literally started to rot to dangerous degrees, but if it's just gone a little off, even to this day, it's still a practice (particularly among those who can't afford to replace meat frequently) to just use extra flavorings to cover the slightly funky taste. Heck, I've even heard of people who inspect the meat carefully to tell which bits are actually turning and which are still salvageable, cut off the parts that can't be saved, then use the still-salvageable bits with extra flavoring in a dish that requires meat chunks/ground meat, instead of whole cuts.

[@Great_Olaf5]

I've done it. I notice meat smelling just a bit off, I usually don't have the option to pull something else out and start from scratch, so I cook the meat a bit more aggressively, and season it more.

[@LikaLaruku]

If your pork & chicken repeatedly suffer from Boar Taint & Woody Breast, & your fish is Muddy, you're really really gonna need those heavy herbs.

[@Tina06019]

Grabbing my salt shaker…

[@scootertron8332]

It makes me think of how if I have a really good quality product, I don't want to obscure the flavor of it as much as is the case with fresh berries in the summer. If the berries are for a recipe that will add a lot of sugar, spices, cooked, or whatever, to use high quality berries, for me, isn't ideal. Or take vanilla that's going to be cooked vs going into a pudding as another example. I want to taste the quality of vanilla. If it's going into a cookie, I probably won't even note that vanilla is there when tasting it, but if it's going into vanilla ice cream, or creme brulee, well it will be apparent!

[@ominousbiscuit]

In my college years I quickly learned the life hack of just dousing that old ground beef in extra taco seasoning when you cooked it, you could barely even tell it was out of date

[@achilleasmanousakis4622]

You cannot put European food on the same basket. Each country is different

[@Stalkingwolf]

for US there is only (old) Europe and for them we are all the same. US is Dunning Kruger Effect over a whole country

[@lifeofabronovich7792]

Right, people forget that places like Italy and Greece are still part of Europe and I haven't heard anyone complain that their cuisines are bland

[@vincevvn]

You shouldn’t put anyone in a basket. People just accept racist remarks when it comes to white people. That’s why I hear this BS all the time

[@doryinflames9120]

I absolutely agree, I am from the Balkans the cuisine from this region is very much different from e.g. Central European cuisine.. and looking at "Europeans" as homogeneous group e.g. in the case for food, doesn't make any sense to me

[@milkyrocc8510]

@@lifeofabronovich7792 Northern Europe. I don't think Greece or Italy could be considered that in any definition.

[@greg2kdotcom]

41:00 I've never come across a message as powerful as this one. 30 seconds prior I was scoffing at how dependant content creators are of sponsors. But then you slammed my mouth shut with that message. Thank you Adam for such an incredibly enjoyable and educational episode

[@iKhanKing]

I take issue with the idea that black pepper is “bland”. It’s a native Indian spice, and a fundamental part of Indian cuisine. Indeed, it might be one of the single most flavorful spices in existence. We consider it bland mostly because it does its job so well on its own that it’s part of western canon. But try your food w/o pepper. It’s a different experience

[@515aleon]

Compare FRESH black pepper and sweet paprika to stuff sitting on your shelf for 6 months. :)

[@UBvtuber]

@@515aleon Adam uses freshly ground pepper, so he should know this.

[@515aleon]

@@UBvtuber I'm sure he does.Also sure he is talking about the just adding to everything or the tasteless stale pepper. I don't quite get the adding to everything thing either. But I recall when I first ground my own pepper, and was thinking how amazing it smelled.

[@UBvtuber]

@@515aleon Yeah I agree, the aeromatics of fresh ground pepper are a totally different monster from pre-ground.

[@515aleon]

@@UBvtuber There's a German cookie called Pfeffernuesse, actually made with white pepper, not black. You use about a half teaspoon. They are very good and spicy. (Chef John has quite an easy recipe and I make around the holidays--does use preground but I'll have to buy a new bottle next year--never use white pepper.)

[@Ash_Wen-li]

Less spices =/= bland And this is coming from someone that loves Mexican, Sichuan, and Indian food

[@sjajsjsja4523]

That's LITERALLY what bland means.

[@Ash_Wen-li]

@@sjajsjsja4523 Bland mostly refers to a lack of salt. It's why you can just put salt on some meat, grill it and it'll still taste fantastic

[@Ferrousbull]

Mexicans don't necessarily love spice. Many of our dishes have sauce on the side, and if they are cooked with spices it's generally only one or two and not in large quantities. There are exceptions like mole, but that's traditionally a special occasion dish. Most Mexican dishes get their flavor by layering cheese, salsas, pickled vegetables, and herbs. Most do not rely heavily on spices. Our flavorful stews and such incorporate chilies and lay or flavor by browning, adding rich ingredients like tomatoes. When spices are usually just an accent in these dishes, rather than a big part of the flavor.

[@Machodave2020]

To some extent, you're wrong. This obviously isn't true for all dishes but if a dish does not contain seasoning (and yes I'm calling it seasoning because not all seasonings are specifically spices) other than some form of salt (I don't really claim salt to be a seasoning, I say it's a flavor enhancer because - at least to mean - it enhances the flavor of the actually food without adding extra flavor other than the salt, while in my opinion seasonings add flavors that are "naturally" present in the food), then it either taste very bland or pretty salty, and neither one of those are good (because salt by itself in some dishes taste disgustingly salty and food tasting bland is abusive and I would say someone should call DHS if someone is give food that taste like water). Like I said, it depends on the dish, but in some cases, less spice does equal bland.

[@Machodave2020]

@@Ash_Wen-li yes but there's big gray area because that technique mostly only works for meat. You can just though salt in some dishes and call it a day.

[@Darkdragon5544]

The Salt and black pepper thing apparently started with French king Louis XIV who, for quality control of his food (he was king and wanted the freshest) ordered his food to only be seasoned by salt and pepper. It took on as a "you can't hide on the quality of your food with just salt and pepper"

[@igelkott3522]

There's actually a pretty funny saying in Swedish when you want to tell someone to get lost which is "go where the pepper grows".

[@TheLeafcuter]

I prefer the simple but effective "go to hell" :P

[@randomjapsi]

we have a similar one in finnish

[@direct.skc.2]

That pins down to 'Kerela' a southern state of India, aka "God's own country" which is also the hot spot for western tourists flocking to India 😀

[@danceandmore88]

Same in German!

[@berlineczka]

Polish has it too!

[@DerekHarkness]

I have spent nearly two decades living in East Asia but I'm originally from Scotland. Aside from the quantity of spice used, I also notice differences in how they are used. In my North European home, spices are always ground and herbs are always chopped finely. In much of East Asia, spices are used whole and herbs are whole or coarsely chopped. It is not unusual to get peppercorns still on the stalk, whole cloves of garlic, and bits of chilli pepper big enough that you can pick them out. You can see all the spices. Whereas, since Europe uses ground spices you can't see them. They are just dots of brown in the middle of brown gravy. Conversely, many green herbs are unknown in East Asia. I find it very hard to find staples of European cooking such as basil, thyme, rosemary, marjoram, oregano, and sage in general supermarkets. I could get them in specialist imported food markets in the larger cities, or nowadays, online, but not at my local supermarket. When I did get them, they often just sat in my store cupboard, since my wife, who is Chinese, didn't know how to use any of them. (That is until recently when she started putting rosemary on everything.) I hypothesis that in the past, since eastern spices were expensive in the west, and so only to be used in small quantities, they were always ground to extract absolutely all the flavour possible for them. Since they are ground so finely, it is difficult to see the spices in the finished dish, and so the layperson might think there are no spices in the dish when in fact there are.

[@turonov]

you're saying we can't taste food/ the spices in it

[@Dosadniste2000]

read up, and learn

[@melanieenmats]

Funny about the rosemary for me. I'm often in Spain where there is wild rosemary and thyme growing every few meters. They are often used together here because they literally grow together. When I'm cooking I'll just pop out of the house and pick a fresh branch from the garden. Conversely one of my favorite dishes is anything with coconut chutney. But you have to use really fresh coconut meat. It has a wonderful flavor. But it is nearly impossible to make in Europe. I once got reasonably fresh coconut which was imported by plane I believe. But to make the really silky chutney you need them almost right off the tree I think.

[@Sundara229]

I don't think that's particular Western or far Eastern, but more a developed and developing nations thing. Like, you generally find more refined and "distilled" foods/spices in richer countries. In Poland people used and still use whole herbs, garlic, pepper and rock salt. My parents and I lived for about 25 years in Germany now, but my mother still swears by using those above mentioned ingredients, as well as harvesting certain herbs in her own garden. Sometimes it makes a noticable difference, other times I'm unsure if it's just placebo or not.

[@Dosadniste2000]

@@Sundara229 i think you're wrong. while in Europe every food needs months or years of planning and thinking in advance (fermented dairy, dried and smoked meats and sausages, aged cheese and wines). NO need for spice in foods that are so heavily tasty by these processes: In South-East Asia you forage littoral shellfish that tastes like what they eat which is MUD, you mask it with garlic and hotness, add artificially add taste to it (sugar to be sweet and something acidic to make it feel fresh) and there's your lunch.

[@mase65]

Black pepper is genuinely my favorite seasoning. I obviously use other spices in addition to pepper, but pepper is above salt for me. Paprika is a honorable mention on my favorite spices list

[@h.eli.tachan5406]

Hello again Adam and all, I have been giving some thought to the theory of spices conserve foods ever since I watched this episode and I have the following comments: * There is no direct relation between the perishability of the type of food and amount of spices applied. For example, at least in the Middle East, meat is not spiced while rice and veggies are to a much larger extent * Also in the middle east, diet is traditionally composed of grains, legumes and veggies. Meat is consumed in small quantities and often quickly after slaughter. * There are some pretty cold areas along the Silk road like in the Caucasus mountains. Armenia for example uses spices very heavily (look at how much garlic is used in pastrami) while Armenia is colder than most populated regions of Northern Europe. * All cultures adopted spices to a certain extent as soon as they got access to them. So it's just natural that you use it if it's available. * Middle Eastern food would be much blander than a simple natural North European food without spices. Try eating a dish of rice and chick peas without any garlic or spices while beef meat is naturally rich in flavor. * Beef and chicken were almost non existent in the Middle East before refrigeration. Lamb was consumed on special occasions.

[@Austin25254]

I feel like Europeans make up for a lack of spices by their large variety and sophistication of cheese. Many of the cheeses have strong taste compared to ones find outside Europe.

[@Mr_Foeko]

I definitely agree, also the dried meats like jambon, chorizo and panceta do a lot for flavour complexity in dishes. I think european quisine in many ways makes the ingredients shine more in their dishes.

[@Rafael_Fuchs]

That's a bigger part of cooking to me. Selecting interesting ingredients more than making everything taste samey by drowning it in spices. A lot of things have very unique and complex flavors that get lost easily if you pound on the garlic, chilies, ect. Light seasoning to accent flavors is fine, but when all you can taste is the spices used, that's where I draw the line.

[@somerandomguy84]

@@Rafael_Fuchs As someone who loves all types of cuisines, I'll also add in that oil quality matters a LOT, speaking of unique and complex flavors. A high end olive oil is a total game changer and makes many other additions less necessary. You could even argue that the star of aglio e olio is the olive oil, not the garlic.

[@blablup1214]

As far as I watched this video this is just utter bullshit. Why should our food be bland ? You don't need to put a lot of spicies on you food to have some taste.... Yeah, India uses more spices. But mainly because there food would spoil a lot faster without them. We used salt for this very reason in the past. But nowadays we have freezers...

[@grabble7605]

Somebody should tell them that cheese and spices aren't the same thing.

[@titikay4real]

One Question Adam and I hope you see this. Have you explored subsaharan African cuisines? I think particularly west African food is wonderful and we use a lot of “uncommon” spices in our cooking. Africa also has the climate to grow diverse spices and plants. It’s mostly not part of these kinds of conversations and I just wanted to point it out.

[@ommk9650]

I've lived in Asia and eaten plenty of unseasoned / low seasoned food. This women eats at fancy restaurants in her city and they almost certainly present food that is much more seasoned than the average person would eat in the country of origin.

[@johnscape2297]

I've explored multiple world cuisines and it's unfair to put a cuisine over another, all cuisines evolved to serve the geography and the people within it, European concentrates on natural flavour or little spice additives (yes the big joke about European colonialism and spice is funny but we must remember the only people seeking those spices are the bourgeoisie and Rich people wanting to show off, most the common people used the spices but nowhere near our Mediterranean and afro Asian brothers). Not everything needs spice in them, far from that. I'm an Arab Lebanese and my favourite dishes are of the two extremes, "bland" British food which I adore, and Indian food in all its forms. I myself now am mastering my skills in making ramen and its many soups, and it's very interesting how little spice goes into it. It's mostly aromatics and combu mushrooms and soy, almost no spices in most of them.

[@ElJosher]

True, no spices in ramen, but you said it, aromatics. I think people don't appreciate aromatics as much as spices. Smell is the primary conductor of flavor and good use of aromatics can make food taste delicious.

[@MrMichealHouse]

To be clear, spice is not just something that adds heat, but is an encompassing term that refers to pepper, garlic, rosemary, basil, thyme, cloves, etc. I think that word seasoning is better as to avoid confusion.

[@ThreadBomb]

@@MrMichealHouse Rosemary and Thyme are not spices! They are herbs. If you're going to say that every ingredient that adds flavor is a 'spice', then you might as well add tomato and coconut to your list.

[@MrMichealHouse]

@@ThreadBomb I'm talking about colloquial use. Things you would keep on a spice rack or in a spice drawer. But if there was some version of dried powdered coconut extract or tomato powder I would probably keep it with my other spices and Seasonings. Not in refrigerator with other vegetables.

[@Minnakht23]

@@ThreadBomb When Adam instructs us to add "a little squeeze of tomato paste to the pan, fry it for a moment then add other stuff to be a heatsink before it burns", I absolutely consider that tomato to be a spice.

[@DanielRedgrave]

the channel "tasting history with Max Miller" is a great example that something strange happened close to modern times in some regions, a lot of the classical recepies he showcases are definitely not bland! yet they come from places now considered awful in regards of flavorful cousine

[@joshw.2739]

I am a black pepper *enjoyer*. Not just the relatively mild spice in it that it has but the actual flavor of it aside from the heat. There’s a surprising amount going on in just a normal peppercorn in terms of flavor.

[@controltestsubject7372]

You described my love for black pepper exactly! I am passionate about the stuff. I can taste the differences brand to brand, the grind is something I play with too, depending on the dish. I don't know if you've tried that black pepper, but my goodness!

[@redacted_vombat5742]

Black pepper ftw

[@the11382]

I switch between black and white pepper, its amazing what simple pepper can do. Pepper can do more for flavor than salt. There is also a special kind of "Black Pepper" that is sweeter and fruiter that I sometimes use.

[@proverbalizer]

It IS good. I almost forgot... living in Nigeria it's not a normal spice that you commonly in local markets... Red peppers forever, yes!!! Garlic and ginger yes, thyme and curry yes, Maggi and other seasoning cubes, definitely, salt of course....those are the commonly used spices.... But I should go to a supermarket and grab some simple black pepper (like I did for cinnamon)

[@corinneskitchen]

@@controltestsubject7372 I've been trying to find a brand that sells white pepper in a grinder or even just 100% white peppercorns but I've only found it ground or mixed with black peppercorns. Any advice?

[@mediumx3241]

There are huge differences in cuisine even between different provinces in a country. Now compare traditional spanish, french, italian, german and scandinavian dishes and tell me something about "european" food being bland... Anyone who thinks like this simply hasn't been exposed to the huge variety of "european" food.

[@janetmackinnon3411]

And have you tried haggis?

[@poom323]

Even Vatican food and Italian food are quite different in flavour profile.

[@GAshoneybear]

I personally think when people say "European food is bland" they probably are referring to English food. I doubt anyone is meaning French or Italian food when they say that.

[@OnurB...]

Video is about northern european food.

[@khaddy72632u]

dutch and scandi dishes that arent desserts are horribly bland. german has a few good cured meats and fermented foods and thats it. portugal and spain are different realms of cuisine, southern europe generally fares better in general

[@gamestory2834]

Whenever people call something bland, I also suspect that they have desensitized to more subtle flavors. There's a certain snobbery in it, which often tries to demean things that aren't in the extremes. Our taste buds are always adapting to new flavors, and if the expectation of intensity increases then things will feel relatively bland. Like I've gotten so used to chili that I won't even notice it in amounts that will have my friend sweating. And I also remember how terrible beer and coffee tasted, but now I love it. There's a Norwegian cheese, Norvegia, that some call tasteless, but I certainly recognize that it has a clear taste and while it isn't intense, it is certainly still there. So I feel like arguing about tastes is an overall unhealthy thing, and that it will often lead to cultural nationalism and unnecessary antagonism.

[@biancamlf288]

On the topic of it leading to nationalism and "unnecessary antagonism" I can't help but sit here and think "well, it has already." Colonialism affects every aspect of life. Bare with me. The oldest Chinatown in the world is located in Intramuros (Manila) Philippines and though there is a clear anti-Chinese sentiment within Filipinos, especially of the older generation, it is ironic that so much of our food is Chinese in essence. Noodles aren't Filipino, not really. Lomi (thick egg noodles, coated in an even thicker sauce) or Pancit "long life noodles" (stir-fried noodles of varying varieties cooked at a lower temp) are staples today but, are they "truly" Filipino? "Anything with tomato (sauce) we got from the Spaniards" is what I was once told. (333 years of Spanish exploitation and all we got was Kaldereta and fake names.) Sinigang (sour tamarind soup) is incredibly similar to Vietnamese soups. (Though this might be how Lugaw (congee) is present in practically every SEA country, it's our "chicken soup".) Kare-Kare (sweet peanut butter ox curry) is something (iirc) South Indian immigrant workers brought with them. Not to mention, "Tasting History with Max Miller" has a wonderful video on Adobo (national dish). I also can't help but think of how Max's (fried chicken, hearty Filipino food joint) was opened in 1945 and if fried chicken and its popularity had something to do with Americans stationed in the Philippines. I wonder how much food is truly "ours" as opposed to an amalgamation of being forced to cook a certain way, and conform, instead of eating for pleasure/sustenance. I think a lot of "bland food" has to do with people being pretty scrappy in the past, as many have mentioned the Great Depression has played a significant role. Industrialization and convenience foods too. A lot of "traditional" meals have been forgotten that were more pungent, preserved, fermented, and otherwise deeply enjoyable/shelf stable. I mean, ask any German, they'll rinse/cook their Sauerkraut too. I also think that it isn't about "being used to it", anyone who has grown up their entire life eating rice knows there is a significant difference in flavour between white rices, not to mention soy sauces/tofu among other "bland food". I think when it comes to jokingly making fun of bland food, it's a mixture of reclaiming the power to say that this perceived stinky, smell, "lower class" food is actually really fucking good. Not to mention those people who don't have the palate to stomach a lot of food i.e. picky eaters are the exact same people who would sneer and make fun of differing cultures through their cooking. So often I have seen people recoil at Balut when it has and will continue to sustain people. So, get with it or shut up.

[@annaclarafenyo8185]

English food has a lot of interesting spices, Rosemary, Thyme, Black Pepper, and Nutmeg are just as interesting as Cardomon and turmeric.

[@gagamba9198]

England was once an important grower of saffron as well. Its safron was more highly regarded and costly than that coming from the East.

[@vhawk1951kl]

Don't forget mustard which very few would describe as bland.

[@Iri5hman]

00:28 Alot of people say "oh lol Europeans make bland food" dont really know anything other than "what my parents made at home" and "that one Indian restaurant i went to when i was 13." Just off the top of my head I know that japan has lots of dishes that would be considered "bland" by the standards set by these critics of "European" food, yet they are never thought to have "boring dishes" in the popular conscientious. I understand that it is Adam's "job" of sorts to engage with these kinds of questions, but for me I dont even give the idea the european food is bland because i try my hardest not to take anything for granted. Just my two cents.

[@dibsdibs3495]

Exactly, have these people not had Italian food lol.

[@lipsontajgordongrunk4328]

Europe is honestly too diverse to stick under a single “label” when it comes to food culture. What you eat in Italy versus France versus Spain versus Sweden versus the UK are all very different. The UK has a lot of Indian transplants so there is actually a diverse food scene there it’s not all just fish/chips and bangers/mash. Eastern Europe is generally cooler and dryer in climate so you’ll see more hearty stuff involving potatoes/cabbages and things like stews etc. My parents came from a country that at the time was communist so even though they raised animals they only ate fresh meat on rare occasions, so the geopolitical history of a country can impact common cultural recipes too.

[@stapuft]

nope, LITERALLY NO ONE says that, people do complain specifically about the BRITISH PEOPLES fondness for nothing but bland mush.....but NOT the entire continent of europe, ONLY the small country island of bthe UK, has bland food.

[@oliwia497]

I have a friend from China and her cooking is not bad, however it is sometimes quite bland which surprised me, since asian cuisines are thought to be loaded with flavour. The thing is, the food you are going to get at a restaurant is going to have so many more spices and so much more dimension, it’s different from what regular people cook at home. Im from Poland and theres this soup made of fermented rye, if you try it at a restaurant it is going to be soo flavourful, but f.e. when my grandma cooks it, well… not so much. I guess grass is always greener on the other side.

[@Iri5hman]

@@lipsontajgordongrunk4328 I pretty much agree on every point, but i would even say the "traditional" food in alot of these countries is also very diverse and alot of them can have strong flavours. Like Adam mentioned, dried sage and garlic sausages.

[@AnthyUwU]

adam this podcast is from 10 months ago and you might not even read this, but I want to let you know that I am struggling highly to decide on a career path and everything you said about excercising the muscle with something you don't care a lot about was a piece of advice I never heard along with the way you put it, and I feel it helped me a lot and will definetely remember for a long time. Thank you

[@raptor4916]

Most of the perception of modern western cuisine is due the aftereffects of the world wars and the mass shortages those wars caused plus the UK got particularly screwed by rationing that lasted until 55 and the director of rationing was a guy whose tummy ached after he ate spiced food (Im serious) so he didnt think spices were important but look at dutch czech and hungarian cuisine and european food can be spiced

[@azael1474]

I agree. People used to eat much more herbs and aromatics in the past, but with urbanization, industrialization and the world wars, people cut off what could be see as "extra" or "nonessential". If I can't go in the field and get some herb and I don't have extra money to supply it, I guess I'll do without.

[@tcm81]

Industrialisation and greater contact with the new world brought importation of drugs like tea, coffee and sugar. The British seem to have taken more readily to these things than spices. Ginger, mace, cinnamon and nutmeg are things you put in your cakes!

[@raptor4916]

@@tcm81 and if you read pre 1939 cookbooks you see a ton of spices in cakes

[@tcm81]

@@raptor4916 I think the real problem with English food came much earlier. England had no peasant cuisine of the European variety because it was a society devoid of true peasant smallholders, containing only prosperous farmers and wage labourers. It is difficult in such circumstances to create a distinctive national food culture.

[@HydroSnips]

@@tcm81 Bit later perhaps but Orwell in Down & Out and Wigan Pier - both books from post-1929 Wall St crash & depression - writes of workers in the cities whose one meal a day is a slice of bread, a blob of margarine and a mug of tea. Cheap and plentiful and affordable to people on low wages (if employed…) and paying out rent & bills. Hard to develop a food culture in such circumstances, class certainly had an effect.

[@globalforce]

"Hurr durr white people foodz iz bland" is a tired-ass meme perpetuated by people with a myopic worldview who simply cannot understand the simple truth that spices don't equate flavor (or people who just want another way of bashing white people, as if there aren't enough ways to do that already). For instance, kimchi is a dish that's not really accused of being bland, but the spices that goes into kimchi(well, at least, authentic iterations of it) really aren't anything special; the flavor mix can even be described as one-dimensional. Most of the flavors come from the fermentation process.

[@globalforce]

@@godfreyprotectoroftheholys9622 O hail, liberty bell! True freedom for all men!

[@thehiddenyogi8557]

Interesting ideas about spices. I have heard some other theories. For example: Spices common in hot areas are 'hot' spices which facilitate the blood to radiate closer to the surface of the skin and to induce sweating, all of which helps cool you down, while colder areas like salt more because that helps bring the blood inward toward the core and away from the skin, thus helping to preserve heat. I have also heard that in the case of Italy, Romans were using lead plates and utensils, and they had an epidemic of chronic lead poisoning. One of the symptoms of lead poisoning is that one loses one's sense of taste to some extent. Therefore they would spice their food with lots of flavor, more than others without lead poisoning would do, in order to actually taste their food.

[@govindakeshavdas]

Interesting theory . But occams razor makes more sense . Tasty Spices grow in hot areas . Spices are good . Roman senators gave speeches about how much of the countries wealth was being sent to india for spice . Europe wanted spice , it’s not their fault that the climate doesn’t support growing it

[@marcomcdowell8861]

When I got stationed in Japan, I found a lot of the food bland. It actually wasn't. My American palate had been accustomed to over salted and sugared foods. Japanese food is seasoned/flavored, but it's more subtle and balanced so you can taste the components. After my first year, I found myself getting sick whenever I ate on base. My body had adjusted to less sodium and sugar and fewer processed foods from in town, and found food prepped on the base overwhelming. Even eating BK in town (although expensive) vs BK on-base is vastly different. The burgers and fries have a much cleaner taste than the greasy and salty version I get on post. I'm going to go out on a limb and say foods aren't bland, people have just grown accustomed to over saturating their cuisine because flavor is enjoyable and the stronger it is, them more your body craves.

[@ThreadBomb]

Yes, trad Japanese cuisine is all about simplicity, the best ingredients allowed to speak for themselves. That said, some Japanese dishes are incredibly salty! (e.g. most ramen)

[@the11382]

I got the reverse on a holiday in Texas as a kid as a European. I ate some hot dogs with some water in a local snackbar, and I had to throw up. I still wonder if it was the water(Europe largely doesn't chlorinate, and my country doesn't fluorate) or the hotdog. No one else had that reaction.

[@johannesisaksson7842]

Not relevant but I grew up Finnish and fortunate enough to eat smoked salmon enough to get tired of it, but it really is one of the most flavorful things I’ve ever had. Despite that, we do have a notable lack of variety in our flavors, to the point other cuisines sometimes have trouble breaking through in Finland. A notable exception to that is, funnily enough, Japanese cuisine. You can find good sushi in most big supermarkets here.

[@travelertime4382]

... sushi with smoked salmon ? 😁

[@johannesisaksson7842]

@@travelertime4382 I think I might renounce my finnish citizenship if I find any :p

[@travelertime4382]

@@johannesisaksson7842 So as bland food explain Finnish licorice.

[@johannesisaksson7842]

@@travelertime4382 I don’t think our food is bland :p but Finnish liquorice is pretty simple like other Finnish foods. Just super strong

[@travelertime4382]

@@johannesisaksson7842 I asked because I love to try some but I'm sure I'll not find any in on my Island

[@nicoskefalas]

Another great pod Adam! I really loved your response to the “white people food” question. It is an unfair generalisation to put all these very diverse food cultures in one pot (sorry for the pun). I love the discussion in the comments section too :) May you all have a wonderful day

[@tyghe_bright]

Right after the Velvet Revolution, I worked for a few years as a chef in Prague. Many foods had simply not been available, and I knew more food words than my native Czech employees, who had never seen an eggplant. I also found that Czechs were suspicious of spicy food--because spice -*-had been used to hide bad meat-*- in recent years of shortage. There was one traditional dish that was "deviled" -- aka, made spicy--but that was what they did with meat that was on the verge of spoiled.

[@teacherdude]

There are culinary traditions where meat and diary is central and those where it is auxiliary or non-existent. In places where plant based foods are at the core of the cooking tradition, there is definitely a need to 'spice up' the essential blandness of the raw materials. This also overlaps the idea that poverty and class plays a role as the poor has always had far less access to expensive animal products,

[@fn8772]

Interesting approach. Conversely, it also happens that some cultures that have meat and dairy at the center of their cuisine came about as an adaptation to climates where the terrain did not lend itself to agriculture, and in order to make use of the present biomass a pastoral way of life had to be adopted. I am talking about Central Asian and Siberian societies in particular, which are not known for their wealth. North Europeans, though meat and dairy are very dear to them, do not inhabit such climates.

[@petterbossum4716]

Dairy and fish depend on location as much as money. A dirt poor farmer on the Norwegian coast had access to both. The butter and most cheese was probably sold off tho. And he was eating cod liver oil. Cod liver is definately not bland 😂😂

[@adolfhipsteryolocaust3443]

@@fn8772 europeas are litterally from the places you described

[@adolfhipsteryolocaust3443]

@Mahima Bhat actually the ancient aryan castes in india we NOT vegetarian, they even ate beef, vegetarianism is for the lower class, now those upper class of old basically missegenated to exitiction and most of you are vegetarian and none of you eats beef

[@SarimFaruque]

One thing I appreciate about western cuisine is that it focuses on making food taste good without having to use too many ingredients.

[@urbanfrog]

Agreed, i am from a more eastern country and i find myself prefering to use less and less spices. I prefer to have the dish speak for itself

[@trex1448]

I don't know about 'good'. Less ingredients yes.

[@sarzootashoota351]

*Breathes deeply in Twinkies*

[@withnail-and-i]

@@trex1448 Most 3 star Michelin restaurants are in Europe. In that uniquely quantifiable metric, they do indeed happen to make the best food in the world, like it or not.

[@Cweets]

@@withnail-and-i for sure, maybe a bit biased lol but I’d say that everyone across the world can make some amazing foods

[@howdy832]

17:32 Adam! You just described dialectical materialism! Materialism in that our minds and actions are shaped by the material conditions we live under, dialectics because we then synthesize our thoughts and actions with our conditions to create tomorrow.

[@DerMaflon]

I'm from Germany and I often get annoyed by people calling German (or European food in general) bland. I love spicy food from mexican to chinese, thai to greek, turkish and arabian, still I think German food is great. Sure, it doesn't use as many spices but it uses other stuff instead. Meat is one of these things that brings lots of flavor even with little spice, smoke and fat also adds flavor, european cheese often also has a much stronger taste than cheese from outside of Europe, think about Gruyere or Parmiggiano. Some foods also just don't need to be spicy. Italian food is a great example. Most people enjoy some good pasta with a sauce just made of tomato, onion, salt, pepper and butter/oil. Add some parmiggiano and you're good. Traditional Pizza is the same, dough, tomato sauce and mozzarella is enough to make many people happy while it seems bland using no spice whatsoever. I think many people are so focussed on "OMG WHITE PEOPLE DONT KNOW SPICES LOL THEIR FOOD SUCKS" and they ate some bad food made by white people so they think white people can't cook, which isn't much more than a stupid stereotype. It's the same as people talking about asians eating cats and dogs - which is true in one way but it doesn't define their cuisine in any way. It also depends on what food you focus on. Germany for example loves Bread and has the most diverse Bread culture in the world. If you don't eat much bread, obviously a huge part of German cuisine isn't for you. It's just like not eating rice with asian culture, it's not for you then.

[@PippetWhippet]

German cuisine is one of my all time favourites. Because English is a third language in my country and German is a forth or fifth, I don’t hear people calling German food bland as much as British food (my second favourite) and I cannot imagine it, it’s amazing, flavourful and as complex as almost any cuisine outside of India.

[@4skintim962]

I’m Irish but German meats, breads and pretzels are impeccable.

[@craigdines7604]

German food is really underrated. It's super hearty and warming but there are also pickled cabbages, mustards, etc. that bring brightness. I'd like to try more German food, I had a German friend who took me to some places and cooked for me as well and I really enjoyed it.

[@ANSELAbitsxb]

I lived in germany for a couple of years and all I can say is thank god for the turkish people otherwise I would have starved.

[@bored588]

people in colder climates learned food stayed good longer if it was kept cold, thus thats one way they preserved food, that combined with crops is why colder climates use less spices in history, they could preserve the food better, where as lets look at africa, you kill a boar, or whatever, it sits in the hot sun, so either cook it immediately after killing it or even just an hour later it will have started to degrade, thats science, so you can either throw spices on it to attempt to preserve it, which is smart, or eat it immediately. also salt has been used as a preservative for thousands of years, which lends to the theory of over spicing foods was for preservation, its common sense, use spices to preserve food and to make it last longer, with the added benefit of tasting better. that shouldnt hurt anyones feelings, preserve your food and you are less likely to get sick from eating it, its smart, its common sense, your ancestors figured something out that helped the human race survive, dont be upset about it.

[@RayF6126]

I'll disagree a little bit, one of the favors we have lost is floral and salt. I really like white fish in clover. Apple pies in my area used to be made with rosehip. Fermenting went out of style. Tasting history has a lot of not bland recipes of western Europe.

[@Splexsychiick]

I think I agree we don't eat a lot of floral in my country. I guess the closest of floral flavoring would be rosemary. Not even sure what things I could think of as floral flavor. Vanilla?

[@Earthstar_Review]

Tasting History and my own research into ethnobotany have combined to perceive hints that culture has orphaned and forgotten ancient herbs and spices that used to be cooked with and used for medicine in northern Europe, as it has in North America. I would love to see someone more educated in the field comment in this line of thinking.

[@acebaker3623]

A Scottish friend of mine used to call those foods that were a little "off" as "on the turn." She said that her family would never consider throwing out something that was "on the turn" and would just cook it well and spice it up. Anything else, would be a waste.

[@proverbalizer]

there's on the turn, and then there's all they way round the corner and down the next block, lol

[@DomR1997]

Idk, I feel like finding a way to salvage partially spoiled food and make it edible and tasty again would be a great example of human ingenuity. That should be a claim to fame. I also don't know why people wouldn't use it just because it tastes good though. Maybe they used it because it...tasted good? Like, that's not wild. Tending to eat more of what you enjoy? Sounds pretty human to me. I'm also kind of annoyed at how often people will reject a possibility because of some totally unrelated historical baggage.

[@sakamotosan1887]

I was thinking the same thing. Like, if it grows there and it tastes good, of course people are going to eat more of it. People will eat what they have access to. I grew up in Northern Michigan and I'm as white as any Northerner, and I love all sorts of spices and herbs. They are more available than ever to me, so of course I'm going to use them. I made a chili that had garam masala in it (because I had some) and it was absolutely incredible. I also tend to make things up on the fly and not follow recipes very often, or only loosely. I have a decent sense of what will taste good. And I know enough not to boil chicken. You won't get any browning that way, and that's where all the flavor is at.

[@annarboriter]

or you can tell me that you've never owned a working dog

[@DomR1997]

@@annarboriter what...are you talking about?

[@Archihuman]

For me the most concerning thing is that scholars would discard an hypothesis just because it's offensive to a handful of people, that they would shape history and science around people's sensibilities. Really makes you question everything

[@DomR1997]

@@Archihuman Exactly, very disconcerting.

[@choudhury9265]

Just on the India part - china India interaction was fairly limited historically - the Himalayas kept us separate. India did benefit from the silk road though and interacted a.fair bit with south east asia.

[@grantflippin7808]

There was a robust naval trading route between the two.

[@heehokuzunoha7757]

They came to the subcontinent for spices and traded things like silk and paper. One food we got from China was Mooli/Daikon radish. I grew up eating it and was surprised when I learned that it's also very heavily consumed in Japan. It's like the only thing our cuisines have in common 🤣

[@harukrentz435]

Thats not true at all. There was healthy trade relationship between ancient India and ancient China since the first century. And most of them conducted through sea route instead of land. Srivijaya the ancient Budhist Kingdom in Indonesia was a transit port for chinese monks and merchants who wanted to go to India and vice versa. How do you think Buddhism spread in east asia? Reason why sea route was prefered in ancient time is because you can carry more people and goods and much much safer from bandits.

[@choudhury9265]

Thanks. I was not suggesting there was no interaction - just not to the extent which was being suggested. Our central Asia influence is far more because that boundary is porus which has led to invasions and interactions. Buddhism went through the silk route and some suggest kung fu originated from yoga. I did mention we traded a fair bit with SE Asia ? What am I missing here.

[@zeitgeistx5239]

There was the horse tea road to Myanmar and also to Tibet. The Tibetans and others helped to facilitate indirect trade.

[@ShintyShinto]

36:31 Your description of working at Sheets is exactly how I felt working full-time at a city centre noodle bar for a year. My manager joked to me once about how walking home at the end of the shift, he'd think about leaping onto the train tracks ending it all. It was a jest of course, but deep down I think everyone felt that way closing shop. On my route it was the 15-storey hotel (the train tracks bridged over me). At least after a morning shift you'd still have the day ahead of you to make up for the lunch rush. Evening shift you're getting home at 1am, slamming noodles in the microwave, washing off the grease in a cold shower (the smell sticks to your skin) and crashing on the couch to some Netflix show you aren't invested in, then waking up to do it all over again for minimum wage. Quit once I started looking up at the hotel on the way to work. Truly sucked the point out of life (as does doing anything for a 'living' that you don't have your heart in, especially when your life outside of work is just spent recharging from the shift).

[@HARRi81_UK]

The European food question is ignorant and inaccurate. I don't know the culinary experience of the person who asked it, but there's loads of flavoursome and spicy dishes throughout the many nations in Europe. We do have plenty of milder foods too but why should that be a bad thing?

[@tomhalla426]

If one counts alcolic beverages, gin, brandy, or beer are all quite strongly flavored,

[@Duke_de_Plata]

wrong, its a proven fact that original European food is bland. Adam did a great job of explaining it.

[@ramnozack]

Its just a typical modern european who has been brainwashed to hate themselves.

[@DunkeysLongLostSon]

@@Duke_de_Plata did you watch the whole segment? He literally says that the idea of bland european food probably comes from more modern cooking practices, probably popularized by France

[@Mordadigsjalv]

I'm wondering about your culinary experience Alex. Have you ever been anywhere else? Because Europe is indeed pretty fucking bland, and if it's not it's immigrant's cuisine, which is still bland so Europeans can handle it

[@axelhopfinger533]

Simplest explanation: the higher quality the main ingredients of food available, the less spices you need to make it palatable because it has enough flavor on its own which only need to be intensified perhaps.

[@khanhtran8772]

I really like the theory about flavorings as a way to preserve food. As far as I know, some food have a funky odor even when they are fresh, especially fish. In Vietnamese culture, masking fishy odor with spices is widely practiced, with the exception of some salted fish brine

[@Splexsychiick]

That's not the theory....its a fact (BBQ, pickling, dried meats and fish, packing fruit in sugar and spices, etc) The theory was that spices was used to hide taste....

[@SiddharthS96]

Interesting video! Also, here in the Indian subcontinent, eating fresh food is almost always preferred to eating leftovers, even today with refrigeration. So, the use of spices here is more for flavouring and not to preserve it for longer. And the spices and degree of their usage vary a lot depending on your region, social background etc.

[@majorlazor5058]

I’d wager left over rice is not popular in India

[@hayapatel_]

@@majorlazor5058 Honestly depends, my family sometimes kept leftover rice but if you're making fresh rice daily then there's really no point. Leftovers go to cows and dogs more often than not

[@aap9490]

As a Bangladeshi I second that. Eating leftovers is not a common thing in my country also. If my dad hears this, he will snap in fact. Cause he has a habit of not eating refrigerated food and leftover even from the same day! So in our house and even a lot of the people that I know, our meals are literally cooked 2-3 times a day and that too with fresh bazar brought ingredients! But of course, the westerners would say that we use spoiled food as a means to demean our culture and cuisine, it’s always being arrogant and superiority issues in them. Even if someone from the Indian Subcontinent says that having leftovers or frozen days old food is not in their culture widely, they would use their condescending tone in explaining why their bland food is better and why our flavored, delicious and in fact made with fresh organic ingredients are way beneath their frozen super shop packed or artificially engineered food culture! I know what huge difference they have with our cuisine now that I have come to the US for studies. Even what they claim fresh smells real bad or has some strong artificial or chemical flavors to it that you get only in heavily industrially processed food. Any south asian can not live off this food for long to be honest.

[@Daniel-jm7ts]

@@aap9490 but what do u do with leftover food if u dont eat it? do u throw it away even if its still safe to eat?

[@aap9490]

@@Daniel-jm7ts As I said, in my family my dad has a habit of eating fresh rice and curries every meal. So for him 3 times the rice is cooked, and that's why it's cooked in such a way so that the whole family can have it just 1 time(in appropriate portions). And if there are still leftovers the rest of the family members would just eat it in their other meals (usually in the same day or may be the next day, not beyond that) cause unlike my dad the rest of us are not that strict to have freshly cooked food for every meal hour in the same day. But my point was that, we do not have the months or weeks old frozen food culture in our country, no matter how busy our daily lives are. And no matter how much this ridiculous video tries to demean our food culture here in the East.

[@oskarileikos]

Less spices doesn't mean bland. The opposite of bland isn't spicy and flavour comes from many things, not just spices. And it's not like people in northern Europe only eat porridge.

[@georgH]

> Less spices doesn't mean bland Well, for people that is used to have many flavors with varied spices on each dish (like my Chinese friends), they do feel it bland precisely for that reason. It all depends on your point of view and what you are used to.

[@lawlitachi]

Watch your words friend, Porridge is absolutely scrumptious!😋💖

[@Kokorisu]

In Spain, where I'm from, lemon is often used as a condiment to fish and seafood in the landlocked center, where fish took days to arrive in the days before refrigeration. Lemon wasn't used in the coast, where I'm from. I wonder what quality lemon gives to the smell of seafood that made it appealing there? Hint: it may have to do with smell.

[@aiyanapleasant9699]

Hi Koko,pnw native here eating fresh fish with lemons is a very aromatic experience you’re correct but the two flavors complement each other in a way you’ll have to experience yourself one day

[@Kokorisu]

@@aiyanapleasant9699 I've had it plenty of times! It's hard not to when you travel around Spain!

[@the11382]

The reason people use lemon is because lemon easily separates the skin more easily. Salmon is the best example of this.

[@illwill1991]

The way I've always seen it is that if you grew up with northern european flavors then it's flavors that you're used to. So therefore it's not that the flavors are bland, it's that you have grown used to these flavors and therefore you perceive these flavors to be pedestrian/bland.

[@vhawk1951kl]

I think that is an excellent point, but very few would regard or describe mastered as bland

[@petterbossum4716]

Yes! I wonder how much of this is "spices do really well in the competiton of the global cuisine". Once your tastebuds are used to the boom of spices, then those are the only way to go. People talk about the boiled potato diet. Eat only boiled potatoes for a few weeks. Suddenly you appreciate and Apple, and chocollate seems like the calory bomb it is

[@m1g4s]

"a salted piece of fish needs some prucing up"? My portuguese genes are boiling up. Salted codfish is the food of the gods and doesn't need anything other than olive oil to be percect

[@otakumangastudios3617]

I understand spicing up other foods, but I honestly feel sorry for anyone who thinks they need to severely douse fish and seasoning. Fish has a lot of great flavors all on its own and to me it’s the food of heaven.

[@petterbossum4716]

Norwegian just back from the cabin up north here, agreed! We salt the cod lightly overnight sometimes, as a specific dish :)

[@TitaniusAnglesmith]

As a Swede a feel your pain.

[@Suger5zero]

When people say this suff they really mean is India versus Norway. They exclude the exceptions. I think it is sometimes motivated by resentment and I don't agree that we should call it justified. I certainly understand it, it's human nature yes, but we should never encourage thinking of a people as a lump sum group, especially in the context of resentment. Especially when no one from that time is alive today. My favorite spices are Salt, pepper, Thyme, Dill. I really love Dill.

[@manuelcoelho7559]

This "european food" question is very inacurate. Maybe that is the case where she is from in northern europe but definately not in southern europe. With such a variety of awesome cusines in Europe and in particular in the mediterranean, greek, italian, portuguese (where I'm from) you can't possibly say they are bland. You simply put much more emphasis on the individul ingredients rather than the spices. A slice of tomato with nothing but salt and olive oil, or olives and bread, or a grilled sardine etc. (all produced where I am from for example) is so much tastier than a lot of the complex meals I have tasted elsewhere, including northern Europe.

[@JamEngulfer]

I’ve heard the term “produce focused cuisine” used before and I think it’s pretty apt here.

[@MeowjinBoo]

imagine calling greek food bland. also as a greek i find my neighbours italian cooking to be quite bland. They make me ragu with 4 ingredients, and im like where's the cinammon, allspice, cloves, oregano?

[@rodrigomunoz5270]

@@MeowjinBoo Italian food is not bland at all. Quite the contrary.

[@demoniack81]

@@MeowjinBoo Cinnamon in ragù would be grounds for immediate execution here in Italy. Ragù needs just meat, carrot, onion, celery, thyme, MAYBE a couple cloves, red wine, and tomato sauce. Nothing else.

[@kiliang96]

@@demoniack81 Are you sure? Cinnamon it's super popular in old catalan cuisine book, for stews, it's hard to think that it wasn't happening in Northern Italy too since we were highly connected regions back then, we even cook paste because rich people only hired italian chefs in the 1800s

[@mrgallbladder]

20:00 there are 18th century recipes from early US and England that specifically use spices and flavorings to "mask" spoilage in meat, beer, etc., So it's not too farfetched to believe this had also been regular practice by aforementioned cultures.

[@David-ys4xb]

People get offended very easily these days. Over things they weren't even alive for. Like using herbs to mask the fact that refrigerators don't exist yet and your ice block has melted.

[@grantflippin7808]

spiced beers were also really popular until European countries put a tax on it.

[@synthsol5522]

I don’t know if I agree with the “rubbing” food theory, Japan and France have the most popular food and they aren’t exactly sharing culinary diverse borders

[@mariatheresavonhabsburg]

There has been a great success in cooperation between Japanese and French chefs in the last few years.

[@ZacharyBittner]

Covering up food with spices isn't really an argument to make western civilization look superior. There are a lot of early American cookbooks that had recipes dealing with "food recovery" which was basically how to make spoiled food taste like food that wasn't spoiled. It wouldn't be a jump to assume that everyone did that before modern society. Townsend and sons did an episode about it

[@The_Yukki]

Absolutely, I remember being taught that the reason Polish nobles were so high on spices was two fold. A)because it was show of wealth B)because if the food was slightly off, they could mask the off taste.

[@TheGodYouWishYouKnew]

But then you lose the opportunity for feeling like a victim and saying “wypipo. Am I right?”

[@kailash4799]

But here's the thing. Westerners think because spices can be used to cover up minor rancidity which doesn't harm, that's the reason why ppl started using a lot more spice. Which is absurd at the least. This is like saying a solid metal spanner can be used as a murder weapon, and more industrial a place is the more murders happened. So obviously spanners are murder weapons (and as proof show atleast one documented event of murder by spanner). Absolutely crazy theory coming from the wrong side of argument. This is just a projection of how western society used spices. Totally irrelevant to how eastern societies actually use spices. And most preservation techniques here are sundrying, salt, hot oil. None of these actually require spices. That's just an added flavor. Nobody preserves meat with spices even, that's just European idea. So yeah, that's why this whole thing sounds slightly racist. Not calling anyone racist, just saying this whole thing is not entirely relevant to how Asian and others use spices and why it's so prolific.

[@nienke7713]

Even more so, to some extent (Northern) Europe embraced spoiled flavour by using all sorts of safe forms of spoilage (fermentatation, edible mould) to prevent potentially harmful forms of spoilage.

[@otakumangastudios3617]

Not to mention, during the colonial days of the US, herbs salads were very much a thing.

[@Christopher_Gibbons]

Europeans don't prefer bland food. The culinary history of Europe is basically explorers encountering foreign spice pallets and asking the deranged question: "what if we add way too much?" That's how we invented fra diavalo, and vindaloo. Have you tried German food? It is more herbs than actual food.

[@EnigmaticLucas]

It's a recent-ish phenomenon. In the 19th century, spices became accessible to the average person, so the upper crusts (no pun intended) decided to switch their attitude to "if your food was actually high-quality, it wouldn't 'need' seasoning" so that they could still be pretentious.

[@Christopher_Gibbons]

@@EnigmaticLucas no actually. Traditional European food has always been highly spiced. Exotic spices were only available later, but spices found in the Mediterranean have been available since recorded history. Most people have never eaten real European food because people stopped cooking during the industrial revolution. Most modern Europeans barely know how to cook at all. What people think of as European food is really just broke food. Herbs are the most expensive ingredient, so they are the first thing to be cut out of prepared food.

[@AnimaRytak]

@@Christopher_Gibbons Might re-read his post, it's not disagreeing with what you just wrote.

[@ElJosher]

@@Christopher_Gibbons Very true. Industrial foods have play a big part in all this. Also herbs go bad quickly so people who don't cook often/don't know how to cook won't buy or use em.

[@Christopher_Gibbons]

@@AnimaRytak Ah, I think you might be right about that.

[@rafalobo5308]

From left to right of the map, Spain, Portugal, France, Italy, Greece,... all of them European countries, bland food? Really?

[@cmbeadle2228]

The combination of English mustard, Worcestershire sauce, horseradish and ginger mean that I think it's quite dubious to say that British food is particularly unspiced.

[@dillonhogan7052]

Your point about paralyzingly difficult creative decisions really resonates with me -- I am an audio engineer and when I tried to work in recorded music production, I was broke, dissatisfied and never able to call something "finished". Now I do live sound, there is no real permanent "end product" most of the time but I know when the band, audience, and I had a good experience and it is incredibly satisfying.

[@Tempo_Gigante]

What she calls a "jerk" is what makes him so unique and entreating. And I love it! Don't change Adam.

[@jonathannumer5415]

“And that makes me cringe” then goes on to do exactly what she says makes her cringe.

[@siobhanelysia8852]

I’d love to see a more in-depth discussion on the history of black pepper and why it’s prominence is so mysterious

[@lettersnstuff]

short answer is colonialism

[@alexrogers777]

King Louis XIV of France is the one who popularized black pepper so much. He made it be seen as a spice for royals, and much like how people try to imitate celebrities today, people back then really got into pepper because he was into it. It could have been any other spice, King Louis just happened to really like pepper

[@robwyyi]

Black pepper is the story of white colonialism. White ethnocentric history. Example two of the largest producer of black pepper hardly use the spice. Brazil & Vietnam

[@brandonofthedead]

@@lettersnstuff short answer, it's delicious

[@LordRaptor]

Why is European food bland?! what a weird question, I've been to England, Italy and Greece and the food there was really good and sometimes less familiar than food I've had in the US, furthest thing from bland, I've been to the Czech Republic as well and while a lot of restaurants there offered almost the exact same menu as each other, the really good places were pretty exciting to eat in, also, I'm pretty sure French and German food is unique and delicious judging from the experience of other people who I know really well.

[@ziyad1809]

Bland in this case doesn't mean bad, it means "no spices and seasonings"

[@blablup1214]

@@ziyad1809 in my kitchen i have at least 28 different spices or seasonings. Why do you think we would not use them ?

[@YodhrinsForge]

@@ziyad1809 "Bland" has explicitly negative connotations, that's how language works. It's like the difference between describing something as "scented" and "stinky", the intent to denigrate European(especially Northern European) people and food culture is obvious.

[@KevinUchihaOG]

@@blablup1214 what are you talking about? Nobody is talking about your kitchen. Get your head out of your arse. Its a FACT that people closer to the equator uses more spices, both in terms of quantity but also variation. Im from Sweden, the spiciest "swedish dish" i can think of is "kassler och grönpepparsås". Its not really a swedish dish, but its common. Its french green peppar sauce. Its the SPICIEST dish i can think of, and it basically only uses ONE spice. 95% of what i cook is asian or "asian infused", the recipes use ATLEAST 10 spices per dish. I dont think there even exist a swedish dish with that many spices. Northern European food is SUPER DUPER HARDCORE bland. Southern european is not really "bland", but its also not as explosive and "all flavor encompassing" as latin american and asian food. I feel like especially chinese cooking has alot of emphazise on triggering all 5 flavors. Thats why they have the '5 spice' thing. Asians have long used umami flavoring. Whilst southern european food iams to trigger maybe 2-3 flavors at once. Its not a "full flavor experience" in the same way.

[@blablup1214]

@@KevinUchihaOG I am a white guy from nothern europe, so he spoke of the cousine of my country. As I cook a lot of tradional meals he also spoke about my kitchen.... Hope I get everything tight, it is not the normal english vocabulary I use. Just because ou can't think of dishes doesn't me there are none. For example the normal potato soup uses : salt, pepper, bay leaf, clove spice, kummel , mustard seeds, rosemary, allspice grains, juniper, nutmeg and ramsons. Potato soup is a tradional cheap meal here in Germany. Thats more than 10...and there are many more dishes ...

[@KaiaKooking]

I am German and I realized that instead of spices we use roasting aromas for pretty much everything to give it flavor. Roasting, Toasting, Baking, a lot of dishes need the right level of smokiness ess to taste right to me, even soups and salads aren’t complete without and You haven’t had sauerkraut until you had some prepared in a pan. No need for a lot of spices and herbs except for some fresh foods in summer.

[@br4mble]

Going back to Alina's original question. One of the types of plants that grow very well in western and northern europe is grass. Not often directly edible to humans but it means you can feed livestock easly. So meat and cheese being the focal point of foods makes a certain sense. from one monkey with a keyboard to another, i hope everyone has a nice day.

[@ftorresgamez]

Hello, Adam! A very long time ago, I believe 20 or 25 years ago, I was watching a documentary about an Amazonian tribe (I think it was a group of Yanomami), their social structure and, of course, their eating habits. The men would venture to the forests with their young male children to hunt for birds and small monkeys and could go out for days until coming back with monkey meat carried in makeshift baskets made of big tree leaves and twigs. The documentary film makers mentioned the awful smell from the already-rotting meat. yet the men, women and children found no problem with it, however the women did season the meat profusely before putting it in the pit. My guess is that there is a combination of things that attracted early human societies, especially hunter-gatherers, to the use of herbs and other strong-tasting berries or fruits (like chiles) to mask the taste of already-rotting meat or maybe meat that was a little too funky or because they liked it or because females who were better at using herbs were the most desired by male suitors - nobody can say for certain, but at least there is a case to be made that rotting monkey meat tastes better with some spices. We have to remember that many societies in the past were conquered by nomadic tribes who likely contributed their culinary preferences to those of the local conquered people.

[@Pinkie007]

I’m from Ireland and I love how this British girl is calling our food bland. She’s dead wrong. Our food can’t be bland if we don’t have any ;D

[@alantaylor2117]

She is not British

[@Pinkie007]

@@alantaylor2117 I think you’re right

[@alzer6467]

You're Irish but you can't tell that she's not British? Also Ireland has some of the best meat and dairy produce in the world but the history of forced exporting of such produce by the British and extreme poverty did not lead to a food culture.

[@ルナチャイルド-q1m]

@@alzer6467 Bro calm down theyre just young

[@seiwarriors]

She's definitely Dutch or Scandinavian form her accent.

[@xxxenricop]

I keep hearing this complaint (euro food is bland) from people with burned off taste buds...tasting the actual food you are eating rather than spices is a sign that the ingredients are fresh and good. Places with habits of spices is them originally because the meat they'd eat was off...

[@ThreadBomb]

Yes. Also, people who have a bucket of salt with every meal seems to become unable to appreciate pure or natural flavors. It is not a mark of sophistication to pile up every dish with a combination of the most extreme flavors -- if anything, it's quite the opposite!

[@fsen1999]

I reject the notion that european food is bland- it is misguided. dousing your food with 100 different spices doesnt neccesarily make it taste good, and it certainly doesnt make you a good cook. Good flavour comes from finesse in your cooking, whether you be using lots of spices or not. Lets not forget the vast number of strong flavours used in european food, to name a few- smoked fishes (kippers in england), aged smoked meats (pinnekjøtt in norway), strongly reduced sauces (demiglace in france). and regardless, western cuisine uses citrus, rosemary, thyme, worcestershire sauce, maggi and the list goes on- these are seasonings in every sense of the word. people just love to hate Europe, especially Europeans themsevles (speaking as one myself).

[@515aleon]

The difference between typical French and Italian vs American food in 2022.

[@grabble7605]

"Good flavor comes from finesse" No, it comes from cooking and seasoning. You can make a bland bit of nothing with all the finesse in the world and it will be a bland bit of nothing.

[@ThreadBomb]

@@grabble7605 That's pretty limited, to think that food that isn't saturated with (natural) additives is bad by definition.

[@fsen1999]

@@ThreadBomb indeed- people with laugh at americans for dumping shit loads of sugar into everything, then say things like that.

[@janpavel1441]

@@grabble7605 I'm sorry to hear that your taste buds have been completely eroded away because you've been eating oversalted chemically processed garbage all your life.

[@kcStranger]

When I was in grad school, one of my Indian professors claimed that spicier (especially hotter) food was more filling, which matters when you don't have a lot of extra food.

[@bobburgers4302]

I love "traditional" danish food, but the funny thing is, that there is one dish, that you wouldn't call danish, and yet it's almost a national dish, Boller i Karry med ris, translation; Meatballs in Currygravy with rice. That was my favorite dish as a child, and I still love it. And I think that the curry, made a "break" away from the traditional dish's. Our national dish is a simple one, Stegtflæsk, med persillesovs og kartofler, Translation; Slices of pork, dipped in egg and then turned in breadcrums, then seared crispy on a pan, with a white gravy with parsley served with boiled pealed potatos. It's such a simple dish, but SOOOO tasty. In the end what makes food great, is to eat food from all around the world. Only eating danish food, would get boring in the long run. If you ate wague steaks every day, you would end longing for something else. I love italian food, it's so simple yet so tasty, also love east asian and "mexican" food.

[@connorspiech309]

The national side dish of Scandinavia is boiled, peeled, unsalted potatoes which directly plays into the stereotype discussed here

[@ewetoob1924]

In case you were not aware, curry sauce or curry gravy, is an English invention. The spices may be Indian, but it was the British who made it into a sauce.

[@mumimor]

Wait, you bread your pork?? That is completely new to me. Anyway, the pork should be well seasoned with salt and pepper, and so should the parsley gravy, which should be made with tons of strong (garden or field grown) parsley, which in itself has a peppery taste.Potatoes should be new in season and obviously cooked in water as salt as the sea. In season you peel them after boiling and turn them in butter and either dill or parsley, out of season you peel them before boiling.

[@mumimor]

@@ewetoob1924 The curry used in traditional Danish food is an English invention, but the different Danish curry recipes, meatballs in curry, chicken in curry and celeriac in curry all seem to have originated in seafaring communities, like Marstal, where the men brought home spices and spice blends, and the women adapted their existing stew recipes to make use of the import. Food has always been about the meetings of cultures, like Adam says. Maybe people don't know enough about those meetings in the North of Europe because many have lost their food-roots because of industrialization.

[@Komatik_]

"Stegtflæsk, med persillesovs og kartofler" This reads like a funny mix of Swedish and German to me.

[@JackDespero]

Very good point about salt. People who say that salt is not their favourite taste have never tried to reduce the amount of salt that they consumed. I tried to do it and it is literally like a switch for ALL the flavours. "This doesn't taste like anything. Maybe more ginger. No, that didn't do it. Maybe some more black pepper. No, it taste like nothing still. Maybe a pinch of salt? Oh my goodness, this tastes amazing." Salt makes all the other things taste more, for a lack of a better phrasing. That is why you even add salt to very sweet things like ice cream or cake.

[@rambi1072]

I think it's because in the video the asker of the question and Adam described it as a flavour. But of course it isn't a flavour it's a taste as you say, which is why it is so much more important than flavours. It's sort of like how you could make a fruit pie and have Apple in it, or strawberry, or blueberries etc. But you'll always have to have at least a bit if sugar in there even if it's only from the fruit. If you tried to make a fruit pie with 0g of total sugar (and assuming you didn't use sweeteners) it would taste quite terrible. Like if you tried to make a savoury meal with 0g of total salt

I’ve been on a very low-sodium diet for 20 years and to me most salty foods (i. e., foods with added salt) taste like sh*t. PS: BTW, today, salt consumption (and not exclusively what is considered by MDs and dietitians as “high”) kills millions of people every year.

[@matthewkopf6243]

Hi Adam, funny thing about your explanation for Hungary’s spicy food origin, is that the Ottoman Turks were from Central Asia only a few centuries earlier, and the Hungarians take their name from the Huns, who settled there. The Huns also being from Central Asia originally. So both cultures were from Central Asia and thus most likely had experience with spices from contact on the Silk Road or their near proximity to the Near East and India, or contact with China to the east, long before moving to their current countries. Enjoy your content!

[@blubaughmr]

My mom's mom was from Hungary. My girlfriend is from eastern China. On a couple occasions we have eaten Chinese dishes she made, which were dishes I grew up with as Hungarian. The amazing thing is how, across hundreds of years in Hungary, the flavor didn't change at all!