Is it actually unhealthy to be overweight? (PODCAST E39)

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[@pkre707]

As a one of those tall skinny dudes, I was always told and always expected that I had a fast metabolism. I would eat huge meals and always get the “where does it all go!?” Comment. That is, until I actually started tracking my calories and realized that though I do eat big meals, over all, I don’t really eat that much. I don’t like snacking, I’m not a fan of chips and stuff like that, and I often times skip at least 1 meal a day, I don’t really like soda. So even though I can guzzle 3 cheese burgers in a go, over all, the calories don’t really add up to much. Between 1500 and 2300 Kcal a day. Median around 1900. It was a pretty shocking result for me who always thought I had this “special metabolism”.

[@sirfloppy]

I am another one of those tall skinny dudes and I am always trying to eat more to gain weight, I am not sure if it is because of my metabolism, or as you said, I just am not getting sufficient food to gain weight. I have also noticed I go through periods of unintentional fasting where my body is just less hungry, if anyone has an idea why my body wants to do periodic fasting I would love to know.

[@Steph-zo5zk]

@@sirfloppy that's interesting, it could be stress related or an underlying condition like celiac? It might be worth talking with a doctor, or if it's not bothering you at least keeping track of when it happens to make sure it's not getting worse

[@pkre707]

@@sirfloppy we’re on the same page. I call it “withering”. When I stop managing my calories in the sense that I need to meet a minimum count a day, and I stop exercising, and start lazing around, I also stop eating regularly. muscle and fat fall off me rapidly. At that point I start “withering” away, and feel like a stray breeze can blow me off my feet. It’s hard to talk to allot of friends about it, because many times they are struggling not to gain weight and to hear someone self conscious about their skinniness and struggling to gain weight, is like a “rich people problems” kind of thing.

[@zwerko]

It was like that for me in my 20s, people would be amazed at how much such a skinny person could stuff so much food into them (and, presumably, remain skinny). But if one cared to look at my habits-I only ate one huge meal a day, and maybe something small on the side, plus I was quite active, plus my metabolism was definitely considerably faster... Then I hit 30s, metabolism started slowing down, multiple meals a day + snacks + get-togethers around food and all other perks of family life, and soon enough I was sporting a belly and developing man-tits... And I frequently catch myself asking how the hell is person 'X' remaining thin when they eat just as much as me 🙈

[@sirfloppy]

@@pkre707 I absolutely feel you with the not wanting to talk to people about it, with how much people are shamed for fat it almost feels like gloating. And when I do, people say how jealous they are which isn't helpful for anyone. "Withering" also sounds familiar to me, not usually quite to the point that it feels like a breeze can topple me, but definitely when I am being less active is when I am less hungry and lose weight. Maybe being active makes me more hungry?

[@ondrejkozelsky8251]

To this debate I would add that it isnt only about your weight, but about the benefits that you are missing if you arent excercising regularly. As someone who struggled with depression I can feel the serotonin spike every time I go for a run.

[@gillianbarth5927]

The most compliments I ever got on my body was at age 20, when I was working my way through a bachelor's degree. I was trying to keep a roof over my head while taking 15 credits. I was literally starving, because a good day was when I could afford to eat two meals instead of one and I worked on my feet. You wouldn't believe how many people told me I looked good, and all I wanted to do was ask them to buy me a burger before I passed out. That experience taught me something important about what society values, and why it's not worth worrying about. Do the best thing for yourself and let that be enough.

[@curlzOdoom]

I'm sorry that happened to you. I experienced feeling super happy with my body and even compliments. Then I was feeling super lightheaded and could barely walk without needing to sit down. Being thin does not equal health, being "fat" does not equal unhealth. Eating nutritional meals and moving your body regularly is what sets you on the right track.

[@oatmilk9918]

this is partly why anorexia and similar eating disorders can be so difficult to overcome: you have your brain twisting logic and forcing you to destroy your body, and then you have the world praising those actions and complementing you for being lean and 'healthy'. there are many other factors affecting this, but societal pressure is a huge part of body image and diet issues unfortunaterly, modern society cares more about the image and not the story behind it

[@thecheck968]

I remember for all of 2020, I just didn't have the energy to eat. I was physically hungry, but no food in the world sounded appetizing. So I would sit alone in my room all day for months becoming comfortable with constant hunger. I lost 20 pounds that year without ever realizing. I've more or less maintained that weight an it feels so bad to get compliments knowing how I lost the weight and how few compliments I got beforehand

[@oatmilk9918]

@@thecheck968 thats the devious thing about starvation: it fuels itself. you dont eat so you feel tired, then you feel too tired to eat, then you sleep so you dont have to deal with hunger, then you keep not eating because you dont have the mental energy to make a decision or prepare something. regaining hunger can be hard too, its a long a quite lonely state to be in and i think its too normalised in atm. the other side of it is people praising larger people for 'being themselves' yet most also suffer from body image and mental health issues... media, the internet, and irl people can be cruel and its easy to see why becoming healthier is very hard for a lot people

[@gillianbarth5927]

@@thecheck968 2020 was a rough one! I know the feeling of getting in that poor mental health ditch and how it gets harder and harder to find the momentum to get out. Hang in there, you'll win the long game eventually. People have no sensitivity to the psychological side of weight changes and they really should. It's so tiring wading through all the opinions!

[@abracadaverous]

I was really seduced by the Health at Every Size movement. But after losing half my body weight, I'm still struggling with lingering effects of my obesity. I'm about to head to my surgeon's office to see if I just need a third surgery on my foot/ankle, or also a fourth as well. The particular issue I have is almost exclusively seen in patients who are (or have been) very fat. I didn't know about PTTD before it took my mobility. That was a piece of data that didn't make it into the cherry-picking basket. Thank you for talking about medical fatphobia as well. I can't even tell you how many times I went to a doctor with a specific issue and walked away with a diagnosis of "you're fat" and a prescription of "lose weight", which is not helpful for bronchitis or a sprained ankle.

[@bendadestroyer]

How do you propose a doctor address such a serious health issue?

[@NateB]

They’re not afraid of the fat. They just want you to lose it.

[@oliviacarolinanogueira7769]

PTTD doesn't has a bigger genetics and diabetes risk factor than obesity

[@dismurrart6648]

​@bendadestroyer not the person you were asking but tbh, i think address the reason they came in(bronchitis or sprained ankle) then after you've got the stuff ready, maybe something like "okay so we have you resting that ankle(or tests or whatever) and I noticed in your chart, that your weight has stayed the same. I'm still concerned about that and extra weight contributes to stuff like spraining ankles. Are you currently doing anything to work on your weight?" Then take a couple minutes to go over their strategies. Maybe they need to see a dietitian, maybe they need to go to a therapist. Maybe they just need the gym. At my annual pap, my Dr did all our stuff, then at the end congratulated me on the weight already lost and gave a tip for a food scanning app. I told him that by next year I intend to be below 200. I think it absolutely should be addressed but that the reason the patient came in takes precedent and at the end, reiterate the care for the ankle or whatever.

[@bendadestroyer]

Agreed, but the issue arrises when they come in for diabetes, blood pressure, and other highly weight related issues. You can't just put bandaid on symptoms, the weight must be a primary focus.

[@Funnylittleman]

Oh boy, I’m sure this comment section will be filled with kindness and level headed folks arguing in good faith 😂

[@christaylor9095]

There's like 15 comments right now and more than half of them are idiotic 🙄

[@pb2959]

I disagree.

[@Love-and-Salt]

@@pb2959 I aggressively disagree and hate your disagreement

[@CanibbalsrUs]

Alot of people commenting on the entirety of obesity on a video that's an hour long and hasn't been out for 20 minutes yet 😂

[@christaylor9095]

@Adam Sayeed why should anyone bother to listen or gather information when they already have a Dunning-Kreuger opinion at the ready?

[@belladonnaeberhardt8202]

Back in the early 2000s; I had lost about 100 pounds but was stuck on a plateau and couldn't drop the last 60. After about 6 month of utter frustration, I went to the doc; around this time they had approved a bunch of new meds for weight loss. After much research and discussion, we settled on Meridia. About 3 weeks after I started taking it, I was driving down the road one day, when it suddenly occured to me...I wasn't hungry. I WASN'T HUNGRY. It was the first time in my life that had ever happened to me. Up until that moment, for 30 years of my life, I had believed that everyone else just had better self control than I did. I had no understanding of the fact that there was actually something different about the way my body perceived the need to eat...which was constant. Unfortutanely, Meridia and the others in this class of drugs was taken off the market; whether that was a good decision by the FDA or not is another discussion entirely. What I do know is that for that brief 18 months, I was "normal", and after 2 more decades of living with my brain and body constantly screaming at me that I am starving, it would be a relief to have that feeling of normalcy again. I don't think this is understood by most "normies". Nobody wants to be fat. We don't choose it the way ya'll think we do. There's something physiological at play here.

[@mlem6951]

This. I lost a Lot of weight and for me personally everyday is a fight. People Said to me, when i loose weight i would gain a normal Hunger Feeling, my Body would adjust. But nope. I have this urge to eat, even AFTER i Just ate. Esspecially in the Moment it's really hard because of Stress which Spikes up my borderline-condition and anxiety disorder and i Just want to sit Home, eat and read books xx.

[@DrakesdenChannel]

Take a blood test on vitamin D, calcium, iron, zinc and find your issue, then supplement for it. Ut is likely there is exacerbation of hormones by one or more nutritional issues.

[@codyk1875]

I'm the opposite, I can litteraly be so calorie deficient that I'm light headed and I still won't be hungry. I have to force myself to eat and consciously try to gain weight.

[@alexandermaclean18]

Adam mentioned gut hormone medication, and I can personally vouch for that - started Ozempic 2 months ago, and the reduction in hunger is night and day. For once I feel like my weight loss (20 lbs so far) is sustainable and I'll eventually be where I want to, although I do have that "guilt" that comes from feeling like I'm cheating since it's not from "willpower" that I didn't have for the last 10 years of trying. It seems like a safe long term solution, and side effects tend to be manageable for people, so if you are looking to get back to that feeling you had way back when, I'd look into those GLP-1 agonists like Ozempic.

[@eugenetswong]

@@codyk1875 I'm more like you these days. I have to force myself to eat and be disciplined about it. If I could find a morally acceptable way to not eat, then I would do it. This is so strange, because I used to have to eat a lot to maintain a normal state of mind. I'm sure that some of the change just comes with age, but I'm confident that there is more to it than that. After all, I can eat more or the same volume.

[@loisrabies8713]

Totally this. As an obese person I didn’t feel like I was for a large portion of my life except for constant bullying and having a hard time finding clothes. Many of these fat acceptance people are in their 20’s and don’t feel affects of their weight. I’m 40 now and for the past few years I have felt like total crap. In a short span of time I have pre diabetes and probably high blood pressure too. I used to be able to almost do anything physical. Now everything hurts

[@OriSnori]

Fat acceptance has been around since the 70's. The young people for whom it is actually working are those who have actually sought out and found a weight-neutral cohort and created a world where they dont have the same baggage about their bodies and food and exercize than most older people have; consequently, the effects of fat-phobia dont touch them as much and they are able to access healthy lifestyle habits that older folk were unable to manage.

[@Zach0451]

You should see your doctor and get the weight off. You'll feel so much better, it's not even silly

[@Mr_Jumbles]

Literally watched my cousin slowly die because she didn't make changes until to late. Died slowly suffering for years. Lost feeling in limbs. Went blind. Constantly in pain. Until hospitalized and coma until eventually died after around a week. While her mother had to watch this happen. And her daughters. And not getting to see her grand daughter grow up. But hey, I guess it's better we live in a society where people's feelings never get hurt in order to better themselves, than be healthy both physically and mentally. 😀

[@jessip8654]

@@OriSnori what does this even mean

[@zwerko]

@@Mr_Jumbles You know, we don't have to hurt peoples feelings in order to acknowledge what is and what isn't healthy. Apart from some very, very fringe circles (which, admittedly, might appear not as fringe through the social media amplifier) the vast majority of people of all shapes and sizes are aware and accept that, statistically, obese people live considerably shorter and have far lower quality of life (especially in the upper part of the obese spectrum). You just don't have to rub it in their faces because, believe me, they know it's not good for them, not sure what you're gaining from telling them what they already know all too well, short of maybe actually enjoying hurting other peoples' feelings.

[@wind_traveler]

Former fat guy here. Around 20 months ago I made the choice and effort to get in shape. Since then my body weight has gone down ~100lbs and my squat has gone up ~100lbs, and I can honestly say losing the weight has drastically improved almost every aspect of my life, and I’m not just talking about the obvious social benefits of being more attractive or the mobility benefits of having a less adipose tissue. I’m sleeping better, I’m have improved focus and cognition, my sex drive and libido have improved, and I feel more motivated and driven. I wouldn’t try to change someone who truly is content and happy with themselves, but I spent a long time buying into the “healthy at any size” cope, and trying to convince myself that being overweight wasn’t making me miserable, so if you are overweight and unhappy, I urge you to seriously consider the possibility that you might be happier, with less adipose tissue. It will be difficult. It will take sustained effort over a long period of time, but you can do it, and it will be worth it.

[@LingLingFromQLD]

My dog's name is Lebito

[@wind_traveler]

@@LingLingFromQLD *Libido Cut me some slack, Bro. I’m dyslexic.

[@doctaflo]

Amazing; I had to stop listening to this like halfway through because he’d already confirmed what I’d read - likelihood of success: slim, unintended consequence: perma-hunger and starvation metabolism. Heartening to hear from someone who made it happen. Way to go!

[@basilmemories]

question, what do you recommend for someone with a bum ankle and a hamstring issue that won't go away? (on the same side so. that's good i guess?) not a "gotcha", just looking for some recs for non-gym stuff that plays nice with my body.

[@joseenriquez2027]

​@@basilmemories exercise bikes and rowing machines is pretty good for cardio

[@crackyflipside]

It is so incredibly difficult to lose weight after spending a lifetime being heavy. Whoever is reading this, try everything to develop healthy eating habits in your children. Bad habits will chase them the rest of their lives.

[@mikafoxx2717]

This is partly due to not just habit, but also biology. Those that easily put on body fat also have high insulin, which blocks fat burning. Going longer between meals, less snacking, and less sugar and empty carbs (bread, rice, pasta, etc), substituting them with more things like beans, lentils, other tubers, vegetables, whole fruit and berries. Add some fattier meat or olive oil to replace some of those empty carbs, as they fill you up for longer.

[@sonkeschluter3654]

the worst thing you can do to your kids: make them eat everything on the plate, you only train them to always empty the bag of chips, eat the whole table of chokolade etc.

[@mikafoxx2717]

@@sonkeschluter3654 I don't think that's a good analogy. People eat chips to empty because it's what they want, kids not eating everything is because they only want to eat the things that they want to eat, and none of what they don't. Never made to eat any vegetables? That's a good lesson to teach. Wasting food? Even better. They'll eat all that sugar junk food and refuse anything that they don't want. Then they'll keep eating it growing up. Then they'll be sick as ever.

[@Qwerty-jc3so]

@@sonkeschluter3654 telling them not to waste food ≠ encouraging unhealthy behaviour. You know its possible to be thin without wasting food right?

[@DrakesdenChannel]

As a former obese person, I recommend taking a blood test on vitamin D, iron, zinc and other stats, finding the issues and fixing them through diet and supplementation, then read up and learn about weight loss and diet, fasting etc.

[@Pharren88]

Don't sell yourself short Adam. Your fair and scientific approach to explaining the issues with 'obesity' could very well set someone on the path to a healthier life style, or a less stressed life about themselves, either of which could actually increase their life span. You do good work and I appreciate it.

I'm 195cm and was 73kg, and saw the doctor for an unrelated issue. I run half marathons and exercised 4 times a week, and I love eating. Just naturally thin. On my way out, the normally very good doctor reminded me to watch my weight and exercise more. I turned around, looked at them, and they kinda started to stutter. The advice was then adjusted to eat more fat and not exercise more. 😅 It's just a reflex, because they've got to give it so very often, I guess. Also I have opinions on clothing and seating etc pp that fits tall and lean people, safely.

[@666DarkTommy]

I'm only 188cm (at 78kg though) and planes, busses and lots of trains are torture. It's crazy that society just expects tall people to just deal with it. It's not like we can change that with lifestyle choices.

[@deadpie1234]

@@666DarkTommy Tall people make more money, score higher on IQ tests, are happier, and are more desired as romantic partners. Y'all can deal with your damn legs being cramped for a few minutes! Us shorties gotta be short our whole life!

[@redSUPERMAN2]

@@deadpie1234 manlets...when will they learn

[@serpentes9818]

@@deadpie1234 im 5 foot 4 (162cm) doing just fine, dont blame the shortness. life is good

[@3ducs]

You say your doctor reminded you to watch your weight etc, then you talked about "them". How many doctors were you dealing with? One or two or more? Why didn't you refer to your doctor as him or her? You must know which your doctor is. Did all these doctors start to stutter at the same time?

[@bartolomeothesatyr]

I genuinely appreciate your perspective. I was tall and fat as a kid; I was 6'1" and weighed 311 pounds when I graduated from high school, and in my mid 20's I managed to lose 109 pounds, more than a third of my entire body weight. It felt amazing, and it felt amazing to be able to truthfully say I was two-thirds the man I used to be. I managed to keep the weight off for a decade, in part by enlisting in the Navy on active duty, but I worked so hard to stay in Navy shape and keep off the weight that I damaged my joints and couldn't maintain the effort needed to keep that weight off. I just turned 44, and those 109 pounds I lost in my 20's have all come back, and they've brought a few friends. I know first-hand what it takes for me to lose massive amounts of weight, but I'm too old and broken to do that to myself again.

[@johnc5741]

you don’t need to exercise to lose weight

[@bartolomeothesatyr]

Yes yes, I understand caloric deficit. I'm also acutely aware of the discomfort that accompanies running a caloric deficit for sufficiently long enough to lose a third of my body weight, and having done it once, am unwilling to do that to myself again. It's much easier to maintain a caloric deficit when one is active rather than sedentary, and joint pain keeps me off my feet. At my current activity level and baseline metabolism I'd have to cultivate anorexia in order to run a caloric deficit long-term, and I ain't down with that.

[@johnc5741]

@@bartolomeothesatyr understand completely!

[@dawntower3011]

I’ve lost and regained large amounts of weight three times. The only way I’ve ever been able to lose weight is a combination of light exercise and low carb (and more recently, intermittent fasting). Low carb also has the benefit of being fairly anti-inflammatory, which has its own benefits.

[@affexthepirate]

@@dawntower3011 i would rate this as good advice.

[@level10peon]

I really like your point at the end about shame being counterproductive. I’ve found that, in so many areas of my life, shaming myself less for my shortcomings and bad habits has made happier *and* made it easier to make progress on these shortcoming and bad habits. This has applied to exercise, procrastination at work, setting boundaries in relationships, and yes, even losing weight. It’s paradoxical, but believing that doing X would be good for me and also that it’s not a big deal if I don’t do X makes me do X more often.

[@MayorOfEarth79]

This is the main thing anti-fat or people who are concerned about obese people don't get. Shaming doesn't work. Concern trolling doesn't work. Saying you are hurting them for the sake of their weight doesn't work. But I think people continue to think this works because of some idea that fatness is similar to addiction and needs tough love bullying to overcome it.

[@alalalala57]

@@MayorOfEarth79 I mean, tough love doesn't work for addiction either. Medical and psychiatric intervention does. Its as if science and wellness trumps being an asshole...

[@SnailHatan]

And plenty of people are motivated by shame. Your singular experience doesn’t mean anything for humans as a whole

[@comicstripvo6654]

Great listen! I went from obese to average BMI under pressure of being in the entertainment industry and a lifetime of bullying and self hatred. Blood pressure got super low, I injured my joints and tore my knee. Always hungry, always thinking about food. From one ED to another. Up and down weights for years more than that 15lb range that seems common, my life was all about food. Even when out was "less food". Got my PCOS and ADHD diagnosis, therapy for the shame and companionship associated to food. I'm overweight again but my life is mine more than ever.

[@brianahicks4805]

My weight is currently between my highest and lowest point, the latter being the result of debilitating stress and an ED. I don’t love having some of that weight back, but it’s healthier for me long term to be okay with it. I’ll continue to pursue health via exercise and good (and delicious) food choices, but hyper focusing on my weight my very well kill me. That being said I’m sure this is a super interesting and insightful video, but know dang well what my triggers are. Reading the comments like yours has been really interesting.

[@smorevids]

Your story very much resonates with mine in that I also have food obsessions. My weight loss was slow and sustainable and I managed to keep most of it off. A slight deficit and lots of exercise was much easier for me to maintain than simply dieting a lot.

[@mellie4174]

Sending hugs!

[@NoadiArt]

I'm really glad you said that people should make their own decisions on their bodies without shaming. I want to see a shift away societally from concern about weight to a focus on healthy practices regardless of size. Eating good, nutritious food, exercising at the level they are able, and better access to health care.

[@frankdevo5715]

Society looks down on overweight people because being overweight is a sign of gluttony. Fat people consume more food than they need, end up using more healthcare than others, and even use more fuel to carry them in cars and planes. It’s morally wrong to be overweight

[@NoadiArt]

@@frankdevo5715 No it isn't, take your judgemental attitude elsewhere.

[@NoadiArt]

@@trigjones No, people with chronic respiratory illnesses amd who are older begged you to. Of course people like you don't care about them

[@smorevids]

This. My friend got lots of compliments when she lost weight but she did it in an unhealthy way, bordering on having an ED. I also lost weight and people around me have been really toxic about it, pointing out my food choices whether they were good or bad, so then I opted to go back to my old unhealthy habits just to blend in with everyone else. It's hard to be healthy because people treat it as your main personality trait that you must always own up to. You cannot enjoy unhealthy stuff in moderation anymore without someone going 'I thought you were healthy/on a diet?' as a gotcha-moment. Similarly if you have an apple instead of a bag of crisps they look at you like you're an alien.

[@amybrooks4669]

love this video so much. i've spent a ton of time telling people that being underweight is just as, if not more dangerous than being obese (depending on the level of obesity). I'm trying to recover from anorexia, having lost almost half my body weight in 2021, and people CONGRATULATED me for it. I spent a lot of time in hospitals in 2022 because of that.

[@oclictis1]

I struggled with anorexia for years too, it came to a head last year and landed me in the hospital. Be strong.

[@henrymorales9584]

@william hart Thank you for your perspective. I lost a bunch of weight and my friends didn't seem to notice but everytime I mention anything about counting calories they took it as I had an eating disorder. Like hell no, in fact, if I did, I'd be on the opposite spectrum. I overate because that's what I did whenever I'm stressed or really happy. So all the time. I'm only asking about calories so I keep myself accountable and keep the weight off

[@dogblessamerica]

You can be fat, and make healthy decisions re diet and exercise. It will probably result in weight loss. Perhaps by placing the emphasis on the "health" part rather than just weight, it might make that journey a little easier for some people. Probably better for long term healthy living, and avoiding eating disorders too.

[@HRIgnomious]

I always advocate for the "healthy at any weight" motto for this reason. People misinterpret this as being a fat apologist, but I think of it as being that it's better to strive for being healthy as your goal then to lose weight. Your goal should be to get to a point where you feel good about yourself and can move well (e.g. able to run a marathon), which would probably result in you losing weight anyway but make you obsess less over the superficial stuff like your appearance or your bmi.

[@red2theelectricboogaloo961]

@@trigjones i guess it does get overused. in any case i could use more vegetables. uff.

[@oldasyouromens]

@@HRIgnomious Not every person should have running a marathon as their goal, but I get your point. My mom took up swimming 3/4 of a mile daily and smoothed out the roundness, but is and always will be a very round person. Me, as someone who is lean and hates it, I need to prioritize lymph action to combat chronic inflammation and gain muscle slowly. I was at my fittest doing 40min of yoga or pilates daily, while running totally blows out my knees.

[@maki-ey1yq]

exactly this!!!

[@HRIgnomious]

@@oldasyouromens I used "e.g." for a reason mr literal.

[@vmd4350]

I lost a lot of weight a few years ago and when people ask me how I did it and where they should start, I always tell them- "get ya mind right first". Funny enough, shortly thereafter, we moved to Europe. Most of it stayed off with only minimal effort- the pandemic hit and I gain a few pounds back. We came back to the states at the beginning of last year and all of that weight has come back. I've not changed my eating habits. I work out more now than I did in Europe. The main thing that changed was my mental health. Being here is stressful TBH.

[@cameronschyuder9034]

For real. I have also heard that food sold in the US is just more caloric than food in Europe, which could be a contributing factor

[@vmd4350]

@@cameronschyuder9034 truly it is! Everything is sweet! Even regular fruits and vegetables are just sweet. Or extremely salty!

[@doublinx2]

Stress is a significant factor in weight gain, and the US is pretty fucking stressful even next to its peers

[@P--B]

Adam your ability to put across two or more sides to the stories and insights you tell, so consistently, is really top notch!!

[@Apoz]

Hahah, in which way does he EVER manage to do that? I'll call it 'American delusions'?

[@adrianflo6481]

Youre astonished that a man has thought of both sides of a problem before speaking? you must be a really simple guy.

[@Apoz]

@@adrianflo6481 It's very narrow to think of only two sides. But perhaps that's my simple take on things?

[@adrianflo6481]

@@Apoz What other sides are there lol? the question was is being fat unhealthy, you look at yes and no and come to the conclusion that it depends. being fat is generally worse because it comes with a lot of other negative side effects and culturally its looked down on (rightfully so).

[@Apoz]

@@adrianflo6481 You're talking instance wise. This comment from @P B is talking concept wise. In concept, Adam is really not good in being objective nor has he the ability to put across two or more sides to the story and insights. So my argument still holds true, even if you are right.

[@justanotherjessica]

I've always been fat. I was in the 97th percentile for weight as a newborn and never really dropped much below that throughout childhood. My mom promised I would eventually lose the "baby fat" as I got taller but nope, as I got taller, I also got fatter. I prayed every night that I would wake up thinner the next day. I had dreams where I would just cut off the fat in big slices because I hated my body so much. As an adult, I've made two big efforts to lose weight. The first was with the keto diet and I lost about 65 pounds but then my husband lost his job and we could no longer afford to spend so much money on food and we switched to a cheaper diet that included carbs. I packed on the pounds again. The second time was with normal diet and exercise. I went to the gym twice a week and worked out at home another 2 times a week and I calorie counted, meticulously weighing every single thing that went into my mouth. I lost around the same amount but my body composition changed (due to lifting weights) so I looked much thinner than I actually was. But again, I fell off the wagon and gained all the weight back. These efforts to lose weight were year long commitments and took so much effort and willpower but somehow I managed to get derailed both times and it's so heartbreaking to see all that effort go to waste. I have a lot of emotions tied up in food and my weight. I won't give you the sob story but let's just say that my childhood was not pretty and sometimes food was the only comfort I had. I see a therapist but I have so many other things going on that are more pressing so weight loss and my relationship with food often takes a backseat in my sessions. I did not choose to be obese and I would give up so much to not be obese anymore but it's not as simple as "just lose weight." I don't really know why I typed all this out, I guess I just needed to get it out somewhere. Anyway, thank you Adam for broaching this topic in such a thoughtful and kind way.

[@Khorne_of_the_Hill]

Make sure to lift weights when you exercise, more muscle consumes more calories 24/7 and will protect you from rebounding somewhat

[@yesyes-om1po]

IMO the easiest part is just not buying the food, you can't eat if you don't have any food, if you live in a shared household that is probably not realistic but you could try and buy all the stuff a week in, and preportion it so that you couldn't gain weight even if you wanted to with the food you have lying around

[@NateB]

Wow that sucks. I hope you find a way to get healthier, and that it eventually gets rid of the fat. It can cause horrible pain in later years of life.

[@Roobah]

For sure, lots of people out in the world have this same issue. If that gives you any consolation, you are not alone.

[@joylox]

That's something that isn't often talked about. The socioeconomic side of things. I've known people in similar situations, and when you can't afford to buy better food, and have to work multiple jobs to afford housing, you don't have time to work out, cook, or garden. I'm fortunate that I have a garden, but I've struggled with similar things on both sides of the weight range. I was overweight as a kid because I had to do hours of homework because I had undiagnosed ADHD and anything I didn't finish in school time, I had to finish at home, which took up pretty much all my evenings from ages 6-14, meaning I only had two days to exercise and do things outside. Then I got very sick when gluten intolerance set in (my family has a later onset hereditary gluten intolerance), I lost a lot of weight, and felt miserable. I didn't have the energy to cook, or really do anything other than try and graduate high school, and see a bunch of doctors. Eventually I found something that sort of worked, using a couple protein shake recipes, and focusing more on setting a routine. I still don't have a routine due to chronic pain, but I'm in a position where I can work from home, meaning I have the opportunity to take breaks to exercise with some weights I have here, and I can have food cooking while I work. But I really feel bad for those who don't have the financial stability and time for self care and improvement. The housing market has been a hot topic lately, but it really does affect a lot. When half (or more) of your paycheck goes to housing, then having to pay for phone, transportation, and food, that doesn't leave much, and I know a lot of people like that.

[@evrypixelcounts]

I was obese as a kid, hit my highest weight in my freshman year in highschool. I then rapidly began loosing weight in bursts. I had undiagnosed food allergies, that suddenly developed/showed themselves. I had to change my diet entirely, and everytime I discovered/developed a new allergy I would go weeks-months barely eating. I took this time in my life to fix my bad eating habits, I swapped over to paleo, then to keto. I began intermittent fasting, and I "tried" to develop an exercise routine. I felt awful. I was unintentionally starving myself, I was shaking and cold, and my sleep tanked. My joints hurt alot, and still do sometimes. If you intend to lose weight, take it slow. Develop a support system that will keep you accountable, and more importantly, keep you from harming yourself. Don't over do it. I may have cause irreparable metabolic changes to myself, and a whole slew of other medical issues. I've been chronically ill since. I know it hurts to be bullied for your weight, but don't let one pain drive you to another. And help others if you can.

[@XXTheSadisticlemurXX]

Love the nuance and respect you approach each topic with. It's a fairly rare quality to have on the internet, and I wish more people were like you.

[@KevinJennissen]

I agree, Adam has a really impressive ability to be fair and nuanced. Which is maybe why it always feels like it hits too hard when he comes out with his "line-in-the-sand" opinions (eg disdain for religion and dog people).

[@joshuaramirez9088]

In the past year and a half I've been overcoming an eating disorder. I needed to lose weight for immediate liver health reasons at first, and so I logically went "well, losing weight is simple, take in less and expend more". For months I was losing pounds and pounds, but as it turns out, it's just as "simple" to lose too much weight, and the wrong kind of weight. If you don't lose weight the right way, you can end up with what happened to me and lose most of your muscle mass as well. I lost over 150 pounds in 7 months (I was 320 at first). The damage that was done to my body will take years to repair, as well as the damage done to my brain. I had to stop college and put everything in my life on hold to lose that weight, and even now that I'm not longer losing the weight, it'll take many months before I can resume my life from where it was. The worst part is that even when I looked emaciated and couldn't walk enough to leave my bed, and my body was failing it's basic functions, my BMI still indicated I was "overweight".... A few weeks before having to stay at the hospital for a while, there was a doctor who applauded my work and thought I could lose even more weight to be in the right BMI zone :I The goal is to be healthy, not skinny, not under x amount of pounds, not any of that. Skinny is not healthy. "normal" BMI is not healthy. Healthy is healthy. Being able to live your life as you need to is healthy. I've learned that lesson the hard way, but at least now I know what I'm aiming for. let's just hope I don't meet my end because of this lesson.

[@bossdunkz]

Doctor is wild, the gold standard I see for "sustainable" weight loss is 1-2lbs a weak and even assuming a steady rate (which it probably wasn't) that's more than double the recommendation. I suppose if the health issue really required you to drop the lbs ASAP it may be worth it but that's a brutal reduction in calories over a short period of time, I'm not surprised you didn't feel well.

[@brettmajeske3525]

My biggest problem with BMI is that it does not distinguish between muscle and fat.

[@undeniablySomeGuy]

The better thing in my experience to focus on over aesthetics while struggling to improve your body (though that is a very fun aspect) is just feeeling the physical benefits of whatever state of fitness you’re in. No matter what your body looks like and can do, there is someone who’s fighting tooth and nail to have a body that looks like yours. It’s nice to feel your connective tissue to feel how your body is becoming more sturdy and capable of free movement. It’s nice to notice that core strengthening exercises means that carrying a bag or suitcase for a long time doesn’t hurt your back anymore. Little things like that which remove a constantly moving aesthetic target and grounds you in what your body was made to do, be good at moving, seem to help me keep positive in every step along the way.

[@2pppppppppppppp657]

Agreed. When I was a bit chubby and losing weight, looking at myself in the mirror discouraged me, even as I got visibly thinner. But focusing on how much further I could ride my bike than the week before did nothing but motivate me to get out and ride even more

[@BorealSelfReliance]

I lost 60+lbs in 2016, I didn't realize how fat I was prior to losing the weight and then seeing pictures Side by Side. Going from XL shirts to medium or small shirts. Going from size 36 pants to size 28. In retrospect I think I had some dysmorphia; I didn't realize I was fat when I looked in the mirror. I remember making comments to my friends/family about the Dr telling me I am overweight or in the obese range. My friends and family would tell me that I wasn't overweight and that it was ridiculous. I wish people would have said something like "yeah, you should lose some weight". When I am heavy, I have sciatica nerve issues, I cannot do the things I love like camping, hiking, canoeing, ... When I was fat remember criticizing the BMI scale as being ridiculous that I was considered on the high side of obese. Anyway, I am on a correction currently after gaining some weight from having a bit of the long COVID earlier in 2022, then having no self-control while I was sick during the holidays recently. 8lbs gone, maybe another 10 to go.

[@bluntlyspeaking8289]

Good for you, Nate.

[@DeathnoteBB]

I mean, the BMI scale IS ridiculous.

[@BorealSelfReliance]

@william hart Yeah, I think your right about some oscillation in weight. Also, I think historically human homes have varied alot more in temperature. More calories in the winter increases metabolism/body temperature a bit - I have taken advantage of that camping in the winters of Northern Minnesota (eating a big meal to warm up and stay warm sleeping).

[@ECGProductions092]

Yes, even when you lose weight, people for some reason don't like it. I was heavy all my life until I lost weight and then even my mom was getting upset at me over it.

[@andrewwoods6689]

@@DeathnoteBB no you see shipping measurements are actually alright because now people treat them better /s

[@oliverbieser6273]

I lost 95 pounds between 2021 and 2022. I was in denial about my weight for years before that, but now I feel so much better. I think it might be a sort of cycle: eat better, feel better, move more, look better, feel better, and be motivated to work harder

[@justwhistlinpixie]

Being pregnant has made me acutely aware of how much it HURTS to weigh so much. I know it's not the same as actually being fat but there is some parallel. I started out in the "normal" BMI range, and have gained 45 lbs, which if I were not pregnant would make me obese. It hurts my feet and back to stand. Walking down the block feels more like a run. Hell, getting out of my chair is a chore. I'm just lucky that a lot of this weight will be shed in a couple of weeks because I'm not actually fat. It's a great motivator to never "let myself go."

[@lasshaley]

What makes you think most of it will go away? Unless you plan to give birth to a 40lb baby, most women keep the extra weight they gained during pregnancy and have to lose it after giving birth.

[@grammaurai6843]

@@lasshaley most women keep around 10 pounds, but most women will lose at least 20 pounds just from the baby, placenta, and amniotic fluid. Breastfeeding plays a huge part in burning "extra" calories. No need to assume what moms will or won't lose. Eat well and keep active and chances are good that unless you have thyroid or abdominal issues, most moms are able to return to their base weight within two years, even if that weight may redistribute here and there.

[@justwhistlinpixie]

@@lasshaley Hahaha, I am not assuming anything, it takes work. I know it won't all come off on day 1, but I am active and health conscious, so after I lose the initial weight of the baby, the fluid, and the placenta, I am going to work on getting back in shape after I recover from birth. It does take time, but it can be done, especially since I plan on breastfeeding.

[@Becky0494]

@@lasshaley idk how you can say that when there are so many thin and fit moms out there lol. My grandma had five kids and looked amazing her whole life. My other grandma had 3 and will probably outlive me. It takes time to get back to the weight you used to be after having a baby, but it’s possible if you’re willing to do the work, just like any kind of weight gain. 🤷‍♀️

[@CavemanCrafts86]

@@lasshaleywomen who ate like shit and didn't exercise at all during the pregnancy have trouble losing the weight afterwards.

[@Dram1984]

“BMI is bad because it says bodybuilders are obese!” “Oh, are you a bodybuilder?” “…”

[@radiationshepherd]

I don't underatand why we don't just use waist to height ratio and skin pinch test.

[@stevezelaznik5872]

@@radiationshepherdBecause BMI tends to correlate pretty closely with those metrics. There are always the Arnold Schwarzeneggers of the world who are obese according to BMI, but they’re extreme outliers.

[@seankauder9721]

That's the extreme, but it's also apparent for less extreme cases. Look at the difference between a guy who's 6 ft + 200 lbs and goes to the gym often vs another guy who's 6 ft + 200 lbs and sits around all day.

[@FFXfever]

BMI is garbage. It's terrible at seeing skinny fat. One study shows that 50% of the sample is obese despite being in normal BMI. Others shows intermediate weight lifters being absolutely obese And BMI have 0 correlation with cardio health, which is largely the biggest issue with obesity. The sooner we can make body fat measurement accessible, the sooner this garbage metric dies.

[@Fever2113]

This was maybe the best episode you have ever done. This is Adam Ragusa at his best. Bringing up to date empirical observations to a broader Audience through a consistent, clear, transparent lens.

[@creepypuppetspresents5605]

I've always been overweight , but I went through severe depression in college and inflated up to 360 lbs. I've dropped 80 pounds using mostly traditional bodybuilding techniques . When I had a high blood pressure spike and went to the clinic at the university where I work, the physician and the nurses laid into me for my weight at 280 for almost two hours, and refused to tell me what was wrong with me - wouldn't even make a guess - they just told me i had to lose weight. The refused to listen when I told them I already had (and the physician looked like she would've fallen over dead if she tried my workout regiment). What do you want from me, to work out for 4 hours a day like Arnold in his Prime? That's when I really began to understand how big a problem fatphobia was.

[@elif6908]

Yeah I got that too, and then I started to gain weight again in a depressive slump I don’t try anymore

[@creepypuppetspresents5605]

Update: Am doing a really intense cut for my new years resolution. Dropped another 20 lbs since Jan 1. 100 lbs. gone! But I still recognize the intense amount of advantages I've had in my weight loss journey-e.g. working at a university, where the gym is a short walk across the quad from my office-so fatphobia is still a tremendous problem.

[@ElizabethLazuli]

I admit I've been a little reluctant to watch this podcast episode because of the overwhelming stigma against fat people, both social and medical, that my friends and girlfriend have to deal with on a constant basis. But I know you're a smart, open-minded guy, Adam, so I wanted to give your take on this topic a shot. And I was not let down. You've made some incredibly good points, you've considered all possible angles, you've brought to light how incredibly nuanced this topic is, and you've done it in a way that doesn't step on anyone's toes or whatever. And considering how black and white discourse on the internet can be, it's incredibly refreshing to see someone tackle this so sensibly.

[@rlkinnard]

Medical people should help and not stigmatize.

Stoked you finally addressed this. Anyone who wants to learn more, the podcast Maintenance Phase covers this kind of thing often. They have an episode about the so-called "obesity epidemic" that is extremely enlightening.

[@rosiebowers1671]

Suggestion seconded. I love these guys.

[@CavemanCrafts86]

Lmao if you think the obesity epidemic is fake a growing number of volunteers for the armed forces are literally too fat and weak to meet the bare minimum requirements for enlisting.

@@CavemanCrafts86 That's not an "obesity epidemic". It's one trend. You can fall outside the band of military criteria without being "obese". That's assuming that this factoid is in fact true.

[@danielhague734]

TLDR: Being fat is probably very bad for ones health, and being severely obese will almost certainly lead to significantly worse health outcomes in the long term than someone in a normal weight range. However, a significant part of why being fat is bad for you is the social stigma and mental health struggles endured by fat people on a daily basis. For reasons not yet known, the vast majority of people who are fat will never be able to lose a significant amount of weight and keep it off, so the best option we have, on a population scale, is to be more accepting, and do the best with what we've got. As someone who has suffered from Class 2 obesity from a young age, I appreciate Adam devoting an entire episode to this topic. Being fat has been my personal hell since I was a kid, and has remained so into young adulthood. I often feel resentful of "body positivity" for trying to force me to feel better about the body I've hated for the last decade rather than actually fix it. But the way Adam explained things here has given me a whole new perspective on it. I'm still going to exercise and try to be healthier, but this conversation will remain in the back of my mind for a long time. Self love may very well save lives.

[@jessip8654]

It's hard to keep weight off because we live in a society where giant corporations spend billions to make their food as addictive as possible, and when you inevitably get obese from their deep fried chemically enhanced corn mush, the diet industry sells you snake oil "cures" that work in the short term at best and don't work at all at worst.

[@danielhague734]

@@jessip8654 I agree. I always find myself jealous of all the traditional family recipes Adam makes. My family never made anything from scratch. When I was a kid my parents just stuffed me full of Hot Pockets and Pop Tarts and Pepsi. Nothing but industrial processed garbage. I'm still trying to unlearn food addiction.

[@jessip8654]

@@danielhague734 Good luck! I know it's hard and frustrating, especially when you're trying to cook healthy meals and they taste like butt because you lack cooking experience, and the processed stuff has messed up your taste buds, but you're very much worth the journey to better food and better life.

[@hsfb4894]

I think this video has done the most in self acceptance for me of anything in a long time. And just like our brains may only deal with the negative shame for a short while, theres a good possibility this won't be long lasting against my own brain chemistry, but I shall do my best to allow it to. Thanks for the amazing content you consistently release, Adam.

[@prismglider5922]

I'm young, 21 in a few months, but losing weight still had a huge impact on the way I feel. I didn't think I was really bad, I weighed 240 or so at my heaviest. Now I weigh 150, and the difference in mobility and energy is staggering. I was literally depressed, and now I'm not. I didn't even know that's what was going on, but the way I feel about life and applying myself right now is completely different to how it was before I lost all that weight. Do not do that to yourself. You will think you WANT to stay inside all the time but you'll hate it, and the longer you do it the less you even know how to be active anymore. What you actually want and need to do is get out, get active, and just deal with any uncomfortableness that comes with it. It will be so much better for you.

[@agaricus]

Hey Adam. I'll preface this by saying this is an area I researched in a previous life, focused on inflammation changes with increased adiposity. I just wanted to say that I felt this video was a great summary of complicated and polarizing topics. I particularly appreciated covering the issues relating to medical practitioners and the often overly simplistic view of health impacts from overweight and obesity. Especially BMI uses in general medical care. Shock of all shocks, real life is complicated and nuanced. Something I'm sure you have found all people fully appreciate....

[@danielalexander8402]

Appetite suppressants are a game changer, and I have you to thank for turning me onto them. I've lived my entire life with ravenous hunger that I couldn't sate and now after about six months of being on appetite suppressants I'm able to measure my food out by the gram and stick to a caloric deficit while being comfortable. It's amazing.

[@rdtiel]

What appetite suppresants work?

[@danielalexander8402]

@@rdtiel I’m on Ozempic. It’s primarily a diabetes medication but it can be used as an appetite suppressant, at least in non-diabetics like myself. It works amazingly well.

[@rdtiel]

@@danielalexander8402 i hoped it would be pills :( . Injections seems too much for me

[@TheBswan]

@@rdtiel Hey buddy, ozempic (semaglutide) is a really great option for weight loss. It's only once a week for injections, and the needle is tiny and can be used in a variety of spots like upper leg or arm. If you've struggled with weight loss this could be a very solid choice if you can get past the injection thing

[@danielalexander8402]

@@rdtiel the injections are super easy at least. Basically no trouble and I’m terrified of injections. I normally go to shaking when I get one.

[@RitobanRoyChowdhury]

Hey Adam, especially for these more science-y videos, would you mind including a bibliography or a list of sources? It would really help those of us trying to learn more (and would probably encourage some people to read the actual papers).

[@toswingonastar]

My siblings are both doctors, and they don’t have very good things to say about body positivity. It’s difficult for me to talk about it with them, because I really, really needed the body positivity movement early in college. I was underweight in high school, and when I entered the normal BMI range in college, I thought I was fat-and I felt a great deal of shame because of that. I dieted and exercised in a way that destroyed my mental health (and, honestly, I wasn’t feeling at my peak physically, either). Body positivity got me to a place of acceptance, and to a place where I could exercise without fixating on how many calories I was burning. That allowed me to go once again exercise in a way that brought me joy, and those benefits in mood that Adam mentioned. Anyways, all that to say that I appreciate the discussion of weight here that doesn’t put body positivity and acknowledgment of the negative health outcomes of obesity in conflict. I need both.

[@HIIMPIEZ]

That hate mail is absolutely HILARIOUS. I would print it out and frame it and tell all my guests about it every opportunity I had.

[@elith6930]

Not a topic really worth arguing on KZbin over, so just a short statement: Making fun of people will not encourage them to do anything 🙂 In fact, it will probably encourage them to do nothing, or double down.

[@charlesyoung3444]

I used to stink, not good at hygiene or posture at all. Literally only got good at those 2 things because of a series of interactions I had a couple years ago. And let's just say these weren't very positive experiences

[@loisrabies8713]

Yes I was going to say exactly this. There is no point to harass overweight or obese people. Do ppl really think doing that would make someone say “Gee that person is so helpful I’m going to only eat salads from now on!” You only make them more depressed and eat more anyways.

[@pendlera2959]

@@charlesyoung3444 If studies show the majority of people respond negatively to something, that still means some portion of people will respond positively to it. That's why they do studies on thousands of people instead of just one person. Studies have shown that shame and bullying generally don't help people change. Your experience doesn't disprove those studies.

[@mondotwistedmojo]

I think it can work if the bullying is so brutal you can't even leave the house. Have you seen how fat characters are treated in movies made before the 90s? And those characters are barely fat at all by today's standards. But that's not a society I want to live in.

[@stevezelaznik5872]

It took one coworker saying to me basically “Jesus christ, you just ate and you’re snacking already?!” to get me to realize my habits weren’t normal. It was unpleasant to hear, but it helped steer me to healthier behaviors.

[@nsaad3048]

All I know is when I was fat it was a struggle to do outdoorsy stuff and get laid. Two things I very much enjoy. I also think diet culture is counterproductive, because you really have to know yourself and find the special sauce to replace the McDonald's in your diet. Salads just don't cut it for many of us. If I'm craving junk at night, and it's really bad, I'll just run to the store and buy a steak, pan sear it quickly. I know I know. Saturated fat is the devil. But at least I don't hate my life anymore.

[@user-qd3rz7fb1t]

Saturated fat and red meat are good for MOST people of common Eurasian/Neanderthal/Denisovan ancestry in extreme excess, worry not

[@stevezelaznik5872]

It’s hard to keep the weight off if one’s environment doesn’t change. If your partner, friends, and family want to eat out at PF Changs every night, it’s going to be hard for you to keep the weight off and still maintain a social life. That’s why recovering alcoholics often need to find new friends, sadly. I’m not saying people should reject their friends and family to lose weight, but the rest of us should be open to making it easier for our friends and family to live healthier lifestyles: playing sports together instead of drinking, encouraging each other to make healthy choices, etc. We all talk about the “Freshman 15,” where new college students put on weight. A college freshman has basically the same genetics and body type as a high school senior, but the environment is drastically different.

[@Dram1984]

One of the problems with the argument of “they don’t help me they just tell me to lose weight, they must be fatphobic!” Is that people who are heavy, especially if they have always been heavy, generally don’t realize how much their weight negatively effects their lives. I was 350 lbs for the majority of my adult life and it wasn’t until I lost a ton of weight (150lbs) that I realized that being overweight was a negative drag on every single area of my life and losing weight improved literally everything. It’s like being a fish in water that doesn’t know what water is. I get being tired of hearing it, but it really it does make that big of a difference.

[@infin1ty850]

I lost about 60lbs in less than a year because I started working from home and not eating fast food for lunch almost everyday. I'm still working on dropping another 10 and maintain it.

[@Ferinex_666]

On reducing obesity on a societal level via policy: Reducing obesity on a personal level *can* be relatively simple - just eat less than your TDEE and move more. However, reducing obesity on a societal level is much, much more nuanced and will require drastic changes to many areas of society, including areas that don't seem to directly impact the health of the everyday citizen. If we actually want to reduce obesity at a societal level, we'd need universal healthcare, more comprehensive regulatory powers from agencies not experiencing regulatory capture, drastically increased public-school funding and a shift away from funding via personal-property taxes in order to fund schools more equitably, free community college, the transfer of nutritional regulatory powers from the USDA to a less-lobbied agency, policing, prison, and judicial reforms, stronger social safety nets, an end to the war on drugs, more and stronger unions, stronger workers' rights, higher wages, etc. And if that just sounds like a progressive wishlist to you, well, you're right. There is a stupidly strong correlation between political ideology and obesity - the more liberal a country/state/county/city is, the less obese its inhabitants are. If we want to reduce obesity at a societal level, then people need to be able to access healthcare, be less stressed, and have more access to higher-quality foods. It's hard to stay fit and trim when you're trying to raise two kids that you weren't ready for because your state hinders access to birth control and abortion and when you're raising them alone because their father is in jail for cannabis possession, which means you're working 80 hours per week at two low-wage jobs and you live in a food desert where fast food and gas station snacks are the only options within walking distance. Etc. There are lots of reasons that America is so obese, but a lot of them could be solved if we all weren't so overworked, crunched for time, over-stressed, and lacking access to education, healthcare, and opportunities for social mobility while our elected officials, mainly on the right side of the aisle, allow large corporations to run roughshod over all of us.

[@evi6629]

Also: better city planning! Simply moving more in your daily life is a lot more sustainable for the vast majority of people than doing exercise. And that comes naturally if you can walk or cycle to most places, rather than having to use a car.

[@Ferinex_666]

@@evi6629 Absolutely. It's time to end R1 zoning and start approving mixed-use development.

[@lellinor]

I felt very happy when you passionately talked about how toothbrushes and future blood pressure pills alike are basically just steps in our evolution.. It feels like a very simple way to, at least momentarily, counteract the pessimistic thoughts I regularly have about the world changing, love that.

[@besnardlucas2922]

really enjoyed your video, but I disagree with the fact that we can do nothing on the population level to control obesity and related health issues. We can control lower the amount of sugar allowed in sodas (like it's done in the EU) for example. We can force companies to inform us better on the calories of their products. Or we can even encourage people to go to work biking by building bike lanes. It's just a few examples but you got the idea :)

[@stevezelaznik5872]

If we reformed our screwed up farm subsidies it might actually be affordable to eat more veggies and less red meat and processed food

[@zwerko]

For starters, you can enforce a food labeling standard that will be comparable across foods. People should not care what the manufacturer considers a 'portion', it should always have a 'per quarter-pound' or some other Yankee measure so that you can compare across types and manufacturers.

[@hanifarroisimukhlis5989]

@@zwerko well for one it does not make sense for certain food item (think ketchup). Second, calculating that is as easy as multiplication. Third, company can fudge up the calorie number by as much as 10%.

[@MayorOfEarth79]

Honestly the better way to do this would be to make something like gyms a public health service rather than a private one. And the same thing applies to health care too.

[@MingWar_BalGlo]

For whatever reason Adam to me resembles John Wick if his dog was never killed.

[@onodera3964]

And if his wife never died.

[@Rosskoflex]

The American Healthcare system really is a dumpster fire. From insurance to the people that "provide care"

[@BoringTroublemaker]

I have a genetic kidney disease that caused my kidneys to fail several years ago. While I’ve been obese my entire life, I’m also objectively healthy by every measurable standard. They make you go through _extensive_ testing before approving you for a kidney transplant - cancer screenings, pulmonary function testing, cardiac stress testing, an angiogram, you even have to be cleared by your dentist to make sure you don’t have gingivitis, etc. Anyway, the first transplant center I went to told me that they wouldn’t consider me for the list if I didn’t lose another 8 lbs (on top of the 70 I had already lost) to get me to a specific BMI number. I was already starving myself and literally dying and couldn’t drop any more weight. My regular kidney doctor was so angry she pulled my referral and sent me to another transplant center who were both irritated but not surprised because of the reputation of that center for doing that to people. My husband gave me one of his kidneys 4 years ago through that second center and I’ve never been in better health - but I’m still fat. What’s interesting is that I spent my whole adult life at the same weight and I loved my body the way I was. I had active hobbies like hiking and kayaking and snowshoeing. I cook every meal my husband and I eat except one breakfast and one dinner per week. Up until that point I never felt like I wasn’t worthy of living because of something as trivial as my weight. Since then, I have weight cycled and damaged my body. I have become obsessed with every bite of food I eat and developed binge eating disorder which ended up causing me to *gain* weight. So, great job, fat shaming transplant center- you really did a number on me.

[@lw3542]

Thank you for such a thorough, thoughtful and well rounded view of a very complex subject. The internet NEEDS this!

[@evi6629]

Thank you for adressing the medical stigmatization of fatness leading to worse care for fat people! It's something I barely see adressed. Even accepting the negative health effects of obesity (I am not sure if the stigma is worse, but it definitely contributes greatly to the dofference in health, that's for sure) stigma is not actually effective for decreasing obesity and increasing health, so there is no use for it. It's just cruelty with no actual good coming from it.

[@BardianAngel]

@@Methbilly Did you actually read the comment you replied to? Or were you just looking to be rude to someone?

[@evi6629]

@@BardianAngel yeah, i had no idea how to reply to that, because i quite literally said the same thing adam did (stigma contributes, but we're not sure if it's worse) I have no idea how to reply to the other person venting about how fat people told them to get vaccinated either. Like, yeah, you should get a booster, sorry your friends are annoying, what do I have to do with that? Feels like i'm being used as a proxy for people's grievances about some fat person they're mad about irl.

[@alalalala57]

@@trigjones So people should die from a virus because of it? Wow, OK.

[@Aarenby]

@@trigjones citation

[@nabilshah9184]

Stigmatization can be bad but acceptance is even worse. You can not hate fat people, but also discourage their bad health choices

[@sharksgrr]

i had an eating disorder in my teens, and as early as a year ago hearing someone talk critically about fatness would be enough to send me into a panic attack. great job talking about this issue.

[@AustinHansen]

I don’t remember where I saw it, but there was a doctor talking about how our genes play a big role in our body types (like how naturally thin people can seemingly eat whatever they want and not gain weight). She had said something to the effect of, “naturally thin people are some of the hardest to convince that they are unhealthy or have unhealthy habits, because they see no change in their body”. As a naturally thin person, I think about that often.

[@rykehuss3435]

Nobody can eat "seemingly whatever they want" and not gain weight. Yes people's bodies have different rates of metabolism, that doesnt mean that the law of calories in vs calories out doesnt apply to them. On top of that, teenagers spend a lot of calories growing up during puberty. I've seen many formerly thin teenagers who are now 25-30 and way puffier and fatter, they never adjusted their eating habits. Also its survivorship bias as well. You see a thin person stuffing their face with burgers and fries, you think well damn he can eat whatever he wants, he is so lucky. And that 'thin person with magic genes' actually eats junk maybe once a month. While the hambeast does it 4 times a day and wonders why he cant have good genes too.

[@FOREST10PL]

Well, that's not true. Our genes play a minuscule role in it. It's just the habits

[@AustinHansen]

@@rykehuss3435 I’ll have to invite you out to lunch sometime then lol

[@AustinHansen]

@@FOREST10PL 21:06 ?

[@FOREST10PL]

@@AustinHansen that's just bullshit. I've lost 80 pounds and it's just habits. I was fed too much in my home, I ate too much when I moved out. I just started portioning my food and the weight went away. You can't argue with your BMR

[@kaitlinmurphy248]

While this was definitely headed in the right direction in some areas, I really don’t think he went far enough to address all of the ableism and healthism that is so inherently baked into all of these studies. I second the recommendation for Adam to look into the maintenance phase podcast. They have several that address this issue but dive way deeper and approach it from a much better lens. Adam seems to have a lot of internalized anti-fat bias because the part about large people not having good sex and not being desirable was really weird. I wasn’t sure how that related. Also he says “calories in calories out” but if you investigate the history of calories it’s not very rigorous or validated well. Maintenance does a whole episode on that as well.

[@sol.oriens]

That's exactly how I felt too. I feel this is a good introduction to combating fatphobia for a more varied audience than something like Maintenance Phase is going to pull (Which I love dearly, but it's what you listen to once you've accepted diet culture is bullshit and now want to know more) but it's a complicated topic, and it's getting just under surface level.

[@marihi8621]

I agree with you. That part about large people and sex was off. It was clearly his very own personal opinion but he weaved it in as if it was part of his researched content and was a fact. Absolutely not a fact at all. I know plenty of large people who have no problem finding partners and those partners are of all body types.

[@f4st3r36]

Question on this topic that I've never seen addressed - if fat cells emit hormones that make you hungry and the more empty they are the more they emit those hormones, then by getting liposuction after losing a significant amount of weight could you make it easier to keep that weight off? My understanding is you don't lose fat cells as you lose weight so more empty cells = more hunger, by getting lipo you have fewer cells emitting those hormones and would be less hungry overall

[@rykehuss3435]

Yes liposuction and other surgical methods are the only way to remove fat cells from the body. You can probably look at the long term success rates of these surgeries online. I doubt the results are very good, because after like 20 years of stuffing your face with soda, chips, cookies, ice cream and all other junk, you tend to get addicted. Many obese people dont eat just because theyre hungry, but its how they deal with emotions. Bad day at work? Gonna eat two tubs of B&J. Feeling great? Could do with some coke etc So you need more than just surgery to keep the weight off. Probably a psychiatrist specialized in treating eating disorders (yes stuffing your face with chips because you feel sad is an eating disorder), combined with the help of a professional nutritionist also specialized in treating eating disorders.

[@hanifarroisimukhlis5989]

The amount of ghrelin produced is miniscule, because it's a hormone. If you had liposuction then the rest of your adipose will took over and increase production. Kinda like insulin, where there is a feedback loop to balance the signal and response to it. Well of course there is a limit to it, and if there is too much removed there could be reduction. In that case it would be like type 1 diabetes, but with hunger response.

[@cgottschify]

Probably. But you can lose fat cells. You just dont lose them as youre ridding yourself of adiposity. Fat cells are destroyed and created each day. Once you reach a stable new weight, the amount of fat cells you have will change to accomodate, as less new cells are created to replace the old ones.

[@C75903]

Although the research suggests shaming is bad for those who are ALREADY obese, I would be interested to see how the societal pressures around obesity may function to motivate people to not BECOME obese. People fearing weight increases may take better care of themselves and avoid cycles and habits that lead to obesity. Perhaps their motivation to run and eat leaner is strictly weight based, although it is likely the act of running and eating lean that is likely more important than the weight number. This could also motivate people to pass healthier eating and living habits to their children. Although this coincides with your short answer statement that obesity is a close enough metric for health in most cases. I would say remove shame, but keep the encouragement of healthy weight and lifestyle factors and choices.

[@ursusAmericanus]

With the MHO study, I feel like something to consider is how many people in those cohorts are people like Adam. People who are considered obese based on their BMI but in reality have a pretty "average" amount of body fat

[@Athalwolf13]

One problem that I have with the body positvity movement is the same one with the mental health movement : The weird dissociation the more extreme - often the ones trying to take the mantle of leadership of that movement - try to foist on themselves. The ones who actively spread a narrative about being powerless in the face of their condition and that any criticism is immediately bullying or shaming. Being understanding of perhaps their limits or problems is fine, even encouraged, but if they ask everyone to accommodate them, I see it as unacceptable . (To clarify, I am talking about people who constantly choose to blame their condition and that they never possibly could improve it(

[@bendadestroyer]

*Acknowledging someone is overweight is not shaming. A doc saying "hey, what can we do about your weight" is not shaming, it's being concerned.*

[@ajbowers44]

I’ve had a really strange relationship with weight. I was always the scrawny kid who could eat all day long and never gain a pound. And I HATED IT. I wanted to be a lineman even though I was 5’8” 117 pounds. When I graduated I was 5’10” 135 Then by the time I turned 20-21 I stopped growing at 6’3” 160-170 I did a dietary study when I was 20 (due to migraines) and AVERAGED 4300 calories a day and had days over 7,000 I stayed around 160-180 with NO Diet, NO exercise, and a desk job. Until I turned 25 then I got divorced and dropped down to 150. Then I quit smoking (started when I was 12) and shot from 150 to 230 over the course of like 8 months. Now 3 years later I’m struggling hard to diet and exercise to look worse than I did when I was eating as much delicious food as I could fit in my stomach. I still have those same hunger cues from when I was eating 5-6 full meals a day and it’s physically painful to ignore.

[@cshahbazi1220]

BMI being a trash individual metric is usually -including in this video- said in the implicit context of "for higher BMIs", but it's actually more literal than that. You can be "normal weight" in your BMI and even be in the lower end of that spectrum, as I am, but still need to lower your weight due to bad genetics giving you far more visceral fat than what's typical at your BMI range. I have to literally go into the underweight BMI territory to hit a healthy waist-to-hip ratio, or look like I don't have a huge protruding pot belly. That's my genetics, and I have to live with it. Me being "underweight" is what I need to actually be healthy, and is not comparable with being morbidly obese.

[@icedcat4021]

Did your doctor tell you this or did you just make this up? Your waist to hip ratio has nothing to do with health, that's just aesthetics. (Waist to height is the important one.) Having a protruded belly isn't an indicator of health either. You're underweight for aesthetics, which is fine, but it's so weird when you act like it's for health. Apparently narrow-hipped people are unhealthy, but a 400lb hourglass is the pinnacle of health lmfao

[@cshahbazi1220]

@@icedcat4021 I meant waist-to-height, that was a typo.

[@charlenasutherland]

I think the simplest answer is usually the best one. I spent the majority of my life teetering around a healthy weight, sometimes a little up and sometimes a little down. The best eating program I ever went on was eating fresh green veggies and measured protein (whatever I chose) and removing added sugar. I lost weight, I felt better, my allergies reduced, and my arthritis pain just went away. I don’t call it a diet because I was loving what I ate. So my come away was that sugar and additives and preservatives made me feel bad and gain weight. BUT I retired, started treating myself with junk food so I got fat, my joints hurt and I’ve become sedentary. So I hope your podcast made look at this again to change my habits once again. Thank you for such an overall look at this issue.

[@tomhalla426]

An issue is that the BMI standards are unrealistic. I am rather thin, and the standards have always listed me as somewhat overweight, despite wearing the smallest standard waist size jeans.

[@charlesyoung3444]

BMI should just be disregarded at this point, body fat % is a much better scale

[@randomuser5443]

Generally speaking when the bmi is brought up its an empirical way to say “dude we both see the belly. He’s a general idea the weight you need”

[@rykehuss3435]

BMI is useful for indicating obesity at a nation wide level. It should not be used in a clinical setting. Waist circumference is much more accurate in that instance.

[@MayorOfEarth79]

The BMI also doesn't even consider things like muscle and muscle weighs more than fat does.

[@CanibbalsrUs]

Funny all of this was directly addressed in the video we are commenting on haha, bmi has no use on an individual level but when it comes to data on a population level it's the best thing we have.

[@aktchungrabanio6467]

It's very simple: I was fat until I hit my mid-20s. When I finally lost all that weight, life started to feel whole: I could do anything I wanted, from riding roller coasters to trekking, hiking, swimming, having great sex, running, etc. My life feels complete now.

[@Brickcaster]

Types of calories are very important for managing hunger signals. Sugar easily moves from the gut to the blood and the body works hard to keep blood sugar within a range. Thus sugar easily leads to being hungry sooner. Protein takes hours to digest, so can leave one satiated for a long time. The body barely distinguishes between adipose tissue and dietary fat so excess dietary fat can cause simultaneous hunger and weight gain, but also can transition someone to a fasting-like state of weight loss without actually having to stop eating altogether.

[@shriker5969]

Your argument at 10:00 has one flaw: Your actions have influences on other people. We can have a discussion which negative externalities we just have to endure. But living my whole live in a country with socialized healthcare which yearly cost go steadily up, my wallet really cares if you take your part of the society's responsibility serious.

[@arvina94]

Then you should be mad at corporations encouraging more people to be fat for their own profits, those that make healthy food inaccessible and design food to keep you eating more of it so that you buy more food from them. They're the ones enriching themselves while you as well as medically obese people are paying the price.

[@tylerrose4416]

I listened to this earlier at work, and this may be my favorite episode from Adam. As someone who has struggled a lot with weight and body image issues, this episode made me feel a lot better about myself

[@GuantaiN]

I miss the times I was skinny, but now that I look back, maybe I wasn't eating enough. My activity level hasn't changed (near zero), but I'm well padded. While I have nothing against people of any weight level, moving is harder, and I'm always scared I'll get a heart attack. I've had to take to (extended) fasting to get my weight in check. But I agree with you BMI exaggerates a lot, as I can't consider myself to be obese.

[@mondotwistedmojo]

Sometimes I get wary about "fat acceptance," but the paradox is that you have to accept yourself as you are before you can hope to change. Shame is never a good motivation for self improvement. I thank you for capturing that point.

[@bsktballman08]

Is that contradictory? If you accept yourself, you won't feel the need to change. Everyone agrees shame is a terrible thing but I don't think a person "accepting" their obesity is a wise long-term decision.

[@kevinponce8525]

@@bsktballman08 For me at least it's more of a "I can recognize that I am overweight, and I won't let that stop me from being confident in myself, but I choose to lose weight for health/aesthetics/etc." than like denying it or saying it is a reason to hide and eventually not address it and continue on being overweight

[@Zach0451]

You do not need to "accept yourself" to "hope to change". That's bs. You can change only if you combine your desire to change with the work to make it happen. People like yourself overcomplicate very simple things.

[@nidhivaidya6485]

@@bsktballman08 its not really I accept myself so I don't need to change. It's more like I accept where I am currently and know that I need to make a change for my own well being. I spent years hating myself and it was never a good environment to try to change.

[@verylateandtired3504]

Shame has been a direct motivation for my decisions on weight loss.

[@bvoyelr]

6:15 - Or, the doctor is doing what all doctors are trained to do and eliminate the most obvious and likely source of your illness first. I just went through this with my dog. He has a skin infection. Treated it with various antibiotics for 6 months. Finally, we got the biopsy to find that it was resistant to basically everything. Sure, I could have paid $800 for the biopsy up front and saved myself a few months worth of hassle, but when 99.99% of cases are solved by the typical antibiotics, why go to the expense? Honestly, I don't even have to go to my dog to find an example. It's literally step 1 in every medical consultation -- they give you the most basic treatment for your concern first and only with persistence and/or repeated visits do they resort to more complicated treatments. Obese patients should not be an exception. We don't need doctors puzzling over the mystery of the heart and knee problems of the 1,000lb sisters. Lose the weight and see if the problem goes away. And you know what? It probably will. Basically every problem is either caused or worsened by obesity.

[@ethanphillips4356]

Came for the cooking videos, stayed for the podcast! Love what you do ❤️

[@michaelhe-himstakem7278]

100%, it's important to get good videos from home when stuck int he delta quadrant!

[@StaciaMeconiates]

I want to thank you for taking the time to put all of this together. I've always been a bit of a chubby person since being a kid. My parents cooked almost all our meals at home, school lunch was leftovers or a sandwich, and we did summer and winter sports. I was always overweight. After my mom died in 2021, I shot up to about 240lbs, which put me over the 35 bmi. I've also got a genetic disorder that gets significantly worse the heavier you are. It's the beginning of 2023 and I'm down to about 215lbs through walking more, cutting out most breads and gluten, and doing some light cardio. My eventual goal is 160lbs, and then build muscle to about 180lbs. That will put my goal bmi at 29.0, so still what's considered overweight. My goal is health though, not to hit some magic bmi number. I know that before my mom died I was somewhere between 190-200lbs pretty consistently, and I wanted to lose a little weight. To hit the magic bmi number I'd need to get below 155lbs, which just wouldn't be good for me to maintain long term. My medical team would probably like me to get below 25, but to lose the 35lbs I already have has taken 18 months and restricting my calories to under 1500 most days. Health and weight are super complex issues, and the way you spoke about this showed great care. Thank you.

[@skyhawk_4526]

Not trying to be critical, but Adam mentioned being "over-fat" and how it caused him depression, stating, "Some of that certainly due to bullshit social stigma." But I have to ask whether that is really accurate. Is it bullshit social stigma, or do we just tell ourselves it us? Could it actually be our bodies trying to tell us we need to lose weight for practical physical and health reasons, and we misinterpret those signals that manifest as our own displeasure with ourselves as stigma? Certainly, there is stigma when it comes to obesity. But does it amount to some sort of arbitrary bullying (whether self-induced or received at the hands of others), or is it (in both cases perhaps) a protective evolutionary biological response to our slippage into a physically unhealthy state that is designed to motivate us to get out of that state? In fact, while bullying in general is often viewed as purely negative, one can argue certain types of bullying are actually forms of constructive social criticism intended to change a person's behavior through negative reinforcement. Sometimes those coerced changes are for the better of the targeted individual. It's like an employee who slacks off and shows up late to work regularly. He/she will probably receive negative treatment from their coworkers as a result. But that negative treatment can result in the tardy and lazy employee changing their behavior in order to be treated better which not only benefits the coworkers, but also the employee who is now not only a productive member of the team, but is also treated as such. Feeling bad about being obese serves the same purpose. It can motivate to lose the weight and the results are feeling better about oneself and being treated better at the same time. It's harsh, but life has always been harsh. Being able to endure harshness is necessary for our continued survival as a species (as it is for all species). Obviously, as civilized members of society, we need to protect each other from cases of arbitrary and capricious bullying or discrimination, but we ought not be so protective that we cannot tolerate even the slightest bit of negativity. That only sets ourselves and each other up for failure as individuals, as a society, and as a species. Edit: Before all the critics pounce, I do want to qualify this by adding that no one should be bullied or discriminated against for immutable characteristics. Nor should we ever tolerate such bullying. Treating someone poorly due to a disability or a physical condition or appearance is inexcusable. But the use of negative stimulus to encourage positive change (albeit coerced) is not always a tactic that should be avoided. Whenever we experience negative emotions, we should ask ourselves why. If we can control and change the precursors leading to that negative emotion, we probably should. No one wants to be victimized, and sometimes it's unfair and unavoidable, but we can all prevent being victimized by our own poor decisions as long as we recognize when that is happening. Also, "Mr Lovemaker Steam" (or whatever his stupid screenname was) is either a petty and mean troll or mentally delusional - possibly both. It is always perfectly fine and appropriate to immediately dismiss such trolling or delusional rantings without wasting time or effort in considering the validity of such statements whenever overwhelming evidence against the trolling or delusional comment can easily falsify said trolling or delusion. The email Adam read certainly falls within this category and I would hope all sane people can see this.

[@mewalex3450]

The part about doctors assuming that you are just fat is extremely accurate. My friend has been struggling with losing weight and some other issues, despite the fact that she tried her best to eat healthy. She went to a few doctors but nearly all of them told her that she just has to "move more" and "eat less". Turned out she had extremely underactive thyroid and it took her multiple years to find a doctor that would suggest that may be the case. She is on supplements and meds for a year now and looks and feels much much better. Sad all other doctors belittled her problems.

[@bendadestroyer]

*Statistically, the outcome of people thinking they are not obese is better. That doesn't mean that supporting the idea that being fat is good is good. Do not conflate them.*

[@paladin656]

I’m still listening to the podcast and wanted to say thank you for the information. My BMI is like 60, but I recently got hooked up with a healthcare provider that really seems into helping and giving a plan of attack. A lot of the info in the cast about long term effects and such is just down right depressing though. Not the presentation of it, just the info itself. It’s a struggle to not just lay there and consider myself too far gone. I’m glad I managed to listen through the whole thing though. Thank you.

[@montekristo643]

thank you so much for bringing up the futility of bmi scores on an individual lvl I have struggled a lot in recent years with my weight and my weight and bmi score as a very tall and relatively strong person (no bodybuilder or anything just stronger than avg) have done a lot of work in overblowing the issue of me being a lil overweight bmi just hammering the idea of being obese into my head while most people around me wouldn't even say that I'm overweight at all just really fucks with your self image

[@june_buggi3]

(In my opinion/how I look at it) being obese is bad for you in the same way cancer is bad for, the same way having being with a heart condition is bad for you. Sometimes it just cannot be helped in a way that doesnt decrease quality of life. Shaming people for their weight is cruel, and encouraging people to be at peace and love their bodies is such a basic right that we all deserve as humans.

[@MrRom92DAW]

I think I would fall into that MHO category - I’ve been a fatty my whole life. Even since I was 5 I remember being significantly overweight. At my heaviest, my BMI was well over 40. But I never had any health issues of any sort. I was always “fine” - more of the “see you next year” during my annual checkups. I never really ate junk or fast food, in fact I avoided it pretty well. My issue was my sedentary lifestyle - I was always more into books than baseballs. Ironically, once 2020 hit and the world went down the drain, my diet got significantly worse than it ever was, junk and vaguely nutritious foods become a regular part of my diet, and I got even less activity than I ever did since I stopped going out for walks. But I still managed to drop more than 50 pounds somehow. I feel like I actively did everything “wrong” and somehow got better results than I ever did trying to live “right”. I can’t explain it any better than you can. The difference is, I also *feel* worse than I ever have. I felt healthier when I was fatter! Maybe I’m just in my 30s now and I don’t feel so invincible anymore. I dunno man!

[@bossdunkz]

If you were eating relatively healthy meals and exercising and went to eating unhealthy foods and not exercising there's a very good chance you'll feel worse even if you "lose weight". It's probably better to be overweight and physically active than a "normal" weight and sedentary, at least in terms of how you feel day to day.

[@XhumpersX]

Weight, and specifically visceral fat in and of itself causes health problems regardless of diet. Particularly with your blood sugar, pressure, and joint issues. Not to mention just moving or doing basic things requires more energy which leads to fatigue and tiredness.

[@chrisburns4297]

Another factor, as you mentioned, is age. When I was 17, I was so lean, I had a veiny stomach and shoulders. I was doing about 15 hours per week of rowing and related training and felt great. When I was 46 years old, I got lean but fatter than I was when I was 17, which wasn't easy, and felt shitty.

[@fwizzybee42]

The stigma may or may not be worse than direct health changes from being fat but can we at least agree stigmatizing being fat doesn’t seem to be working on a population level? So maybe we can stop treating people different as if that’s somehow going to help them get healthier.

[@evi6629]

Yup. Dieting is so incredibly ineffective (more than 90% gain back MORE than they lost within a number of years) and yoyo-ing weight can seriously mess up your body and metabolism, extreme weigjt loas only to gsin it back it moe unhalthy than simple permanently bejng overweight. Shame and diet culture haven't actually made anyone healthier.

[@EnigmaticLucas]

It’s just a classic case of people not understanding that the “toughest” option isn’t necessarily the most effective one

[@evi6629]

@@Methbilly I actually tried looking into this, and more people (including scientists) have wondered about it. So far the conclusion seems to be yes, of course there is more stigma. And there is some theorizing about how traditional japanese foods countain more saturated fats and are overall healthier. But the bigger contributers seem to be 1) japanese people are more likely to cook their meals themselves (home-cooked tends to be healthier and lower in calories than takeout) 2) the fast food industry is smaller and 3) they walk a lot more. Japanese people go to most of their destinations by foot, instead of by car. Turns out, simply walking a lot in your daily life is better at keeping most people healthy than dedicated workouts. So the answer is: bring back home-cooking lessons in schools, regulate the fast-food industry, and plan cities so walking, cycling (and public transit for long journeys) become more convenient than travelling by car.

[@daaishifeeling]

@@Methbilly when i lived in japan for a few months, i lost about 5kg just by living there. note that i have pcos and i cannot lose weight reliably bc of it, so 5kg is quite a lot for me, especially since i hadnt even been trying to lose weight. the options for eating out are much healthier (i only ate mcdonalds once in my 5 months there), you walk or take public transit everywhere (which also means walking to and from the station, between stations if you have to change, etc - i got at least 7k steps a day and most of the time over 10k), and its just generally much easier to build healthy habits while living there. i didnt cook a lot because i was out most of the time, but when i did cook, the ingredients were very high quality (albeit quite expensive to me, but definitely worth the extra price). the stigma exists, yes, but its the lifestyle that makes the actual difference.

[@TheReykjavik]

I think BMI has a fundamental mathematical flaw, it compares weight to the square of height, but proportionally, weight increases with the cube of height. If a body remains the same density and shape, and doubles in height, it will weigh 8 times as much. I suspect we are overestimating the rate of obesity as people are taller on average these days. We still have a problem, but a 6 foot tall person with a BMI of 25 will have proportionally less fat than a 5 foot tall person with a BMI of 25, so if the average height of a population increases by an inch, we would expect average BMI to go up a bit too. We should keep measuring it to compare against historical data, but I'd much rather see an index based on the actual geometry of the universe we live in that has 3 spatial dimensions going forward.

[@scruffopone3989]

I'm 6'5" and have spent basically years of my life trying to lose weight. I was 285 pounds, as of this morning and half a year of going to the gym for weightlifting I have hit 259 lbs. I am still overweight but I'm getting there. I think largely this idea of overweight in medicine is a bit crummy, and people who are a pound or so over a BMI calculator's liking shouldn't be shamed. And that has certainly hurt a lot of the means of testing the effects of excess weight on your health. That and the public perception of people with weight issues has probably lead to the cottage industry of literature that runs counter to medical knowledge. It is a tricky field because it seems people on all sides have demonstrated the capacity to get very personal and very cruel for no reason. Specifically all those that body shame.

[@J.D....]

I started my weight loss at the end of 2020, after being various amount of overweight most of my life (I turn 25 in a couple of weeks). I was around 235 lbs at 5'11 and im now at 156,3 lbs. This was done purely through changing my diet. My "Target" weight was 155, but i still have more bodyfat on my body than i care for, so i guess its time to start working out? Ughh...

[@randomuser5443]

Yo congrats on that. Just be sure to keep a healthy balance of strength and stamina

[@oldasyouromens]

150-ish pounds at 5'11 is not overweight. Exercising a few times a week is okay for someone at your size. Please do not become obsessed with numbers, as that can turn into disordered eating and overexercising quite quickly.

[@J.D....]

@@oldasyouromens Oh im definitely not overweight! I just meant that i still have a pretty high bodyfat percentage, which is most evident in the chest area and my stomach. Now I'm just trying to find a good balance of still keeping a healthy weight while eating a more "relaxed" diet, think im gonna start meal prepping. I appreciate the concern tho! Just gonna really have to start doing the whole exercise thing. I havent really done it in many years.

[@J.D....]

@@randomuser5443 Thats the plan, i also need to go to the doctor just to get a check up of all my micro nutrient and vitamin balances to see what im lacking - and then finding a good workout regimen that works for me (which is none really xD)

[@der_noa]

80Ibs less??! Huge W! Congrats! I highly respect everyone who manages to change their diet and stick to it as well because that's something I personally struggle a lot at. I'm a bit of a picky eater, sadly, and although I try my best at expanding my palette, this flaw of mine keeps me from enjoying lots of foods. It's especially annoying to me because part of the foods I tend to dislike seem to be my own country's cuisine. I've gotten a lot better at it now but there was a time in which I had some sort of repulsive reaction to food my peers enjoyed 4 times out of ten. I assume it's a psychological thing but knowing that only helps so much. Which is why I'm eternally grateful for learning that I actually enjoy working out. Initially, I started weightlifting only because I wanted to lose some weight but then it quickly became one of my favorite past times. Not only does it help with losing fat and building muscles but it's so much fun, it significantly improves my mood and it also changed the way I look at my body. I still want to get in better shape but I no longer have this urge inside to make the number on the scale go down. I actually want it to stay where it's at now, or maybe even go a little higher - just with a different body composition. But I'm already so much more comfortable with myself now. I'm drifting off topic but the point I was trying to make is that I always encourage others to find a sport/ fitness activity they actually enjoy. For some it's football, tennis, dancing, swimming, running, biking, weightlifting or whatever. But once you've found it, whatever it might be, you'll almost certainly have a great time whilst getting healthier. Talk about two birds with one stone

[@danielhague734]

I would be interested to see if there is any data considering a link between obesity and the fact that America is not even remotely walkable. You can't go anywhere in this country without a car, especially outside the cities. Surely this is a factor.

[@twistedalicemcgee]

Sorry for the book : I have to say thank you for talking about the shame involved in being obese. I have been treated like garbage since I became fat. I was put on steroids for 3 months because I had pneumonia (I was 7 and healthy, not overweight) I almost died but when I came out of it, I was 30 pounds heavier and 6 inches taller. I went from being normal and almost popular to being shunned, even by those who called themselves my friends before hand. I learned that it isn't okay to be fat. I was physically harmed on a regular basis, by classmates who wanted to make fun. I have an inability to feel like someone can be attracted to me, even though I have always been sought after and told I'm attractive, and by attractive people.. I can't believe anyone who tells me that unless they have a weird fetish. It has hurt me so much more psychologically than any other way, because of the way people treated me when I became fat. I appreciate you saying everything you've said in this video. I am crying because I feel validated instead of having someone tell me "you have to love yourself". I love me, just not my body. My mother fed everything she loved, you should have seen her dog. I've lost a hundred pounds, but my body will never be normal. I feel disgusted with my body. I'm awesome, but my body is just not. Now I'm just trying to be healthy.

[@skyhawk_4526]

I think being on the leaner than average side is generally always going to be healthier than being on the heavier than average side, but "fat shaming" is not productive or helpful. However, it's also absurd for certain people on the fringes to suggest that a doctor telling their morbidly obese patient they need to lose weight is somehow engaging in "fat shaming." People have had different experiences body types and BMIs all throughout history and if it's not on the extreme end, it's probably not a big problem. But extreme obesity is at least as serious a problem as extreme emaciation. And healthcare officials should be able to point this out without fear of being accused of "shaming" people.

[@SixofQueens]

I had a year (2021) where I went to see a doctor and got some needed dental work done, which was also a year where I stopped drinking and smoking and became more physically active. The trips to these medical professionals was like a dream, I told them where I'd come from vs. where I was on visits, my diet and exercise regime, and got all sorts of accolades, including my doctor asking if I'd be willing so speak to other patients of theirs about my progress. As soon as I started to fall behind, I just stopped going since my positive experiences before just told me that a) I clearly know what to do to be healthy without strict medical advice and b) that future visits when my health was declining (for reasons that I was already well aware of, given my earlier successes) would just be unpleasant without actually providing me with useful information. So I've just stopped going.

[@CF-3300]

I’d say little boys who are are very small and skinny for their age often experience very similar psychosocial effects. There’s nothing worse than being the smallest weakest kid in a room full of people the same age as you. I was small, defenseless and easy to push around. It felt like anyone could snap me like the twig that I was. I couldn’t gain weight to save my life. I’m weird because being told I’m small hurts more than being called fat. Because if someone calls me fat they’re basically admitting that I’m bigger than them. I was called fat for the first time in 5th grade and while I acted offended I was secretly flattered. I was just happy to be something other than small for once. I have felt insecure about being too heavy before too though. I felt like I was starting to get too heavy in my late teens. I’ve been on both sides of the fence and the grass usually appears greener on the other side.

[@timstevens3183]

Thank you for saying a few words to denounce the stupidity and arrogance of people like Jordan Peterson

[@creamyisdead]

As much as I love the sentiment of just giving a pill to someone for blood pressure, it's usually not that simple. Every medication obviously has its own side effects, so usually when talking about blood pressure and obesity, the preferred solution is losing the weight. There are ways to encourage healthier lifestyles without judging people, which I think we could definitely be better at, but i also don't think taking medication should be a substitute for living a healthy life.

[@LetsChat]

Im asexual and lost 114 lbs last year. I... ddont care about the sex stuff. I just like looking nicer for myself. *shrug*

[@Crazy4K]

I have a few critiques: If fat people are not being shamed, then what else should give them the incentive/motivation to lose weight and consequently become healthier and more attractive? Blissfully brushing the problem under the rug by lying to people and telling them they're good as they are and they shouldn't strive to become more attractive and healthy for the sake of mental health is a suboptimal solution (if you can even call it a solution the first place). Solving obesity on a societal level is basically an impossible task. You not only need to convince every single individual to lose weight but you also need to keep them from gaining said weight. Because of the abundance of food and the sedentary lifestyle of people in developed countries, fighting obesity this way, without addressing the root issues causing obesity in the first place, is pointless, ineffective and inefficient. Spreading body positivity in its current form and brainwashing people into accepting body standards that they weren't okay with in the first place is not only expensive and morally questionable but also will be met with fierce resistance by conservatives. The effort and time put into the body positivity movement should be spent on fixing the problem in a top-down approach instead of bottom-up, just like how the causes for a obesity are top-down. On an individual level obesity is caused because the intake of calories is higher than the expended amount of energy. if one eats too much and moves too little then he becomes fat, simple as that. On a societal level however it's not as easy to determine the reason for widespread obesity because of the amount of factors involved, but we can use the individual level reasons to approximate the reasons for widespread obesity. People eat more than they move. The reasons for that are economical. People nowadays have access to caloric dense food more often, they move way less frequently and they rely too much on cars to move around. If we address those economic factors, be it by forcing people into moving more and changing how food subsidies are distributed, we can address the diet and the exercise factors on a societal level, for example by introducing some sort of a sugar Tax that makes cheap and choleric dense food more expensive and subsidizing healthier foods like produce. We can also make people move more by reducing the reliance on cars and investing big cash into public transport to make a viable alternative to driving. These measures might not solve the problem completely, but they are very effective at reducing obesity rates throughout Europe for example. They are also way less artificial than gobbling up chemical pills that have unknown side effects and indoctrinating people to believe some things they wouldn't normally believe.

[@aiaioioi]

you're acting like those religious people questioning atheism on why murder is bad. you don't need god to tell you that murder is a sin when you can see that murder is bad for society. you don't need anyone to tell you that weight affects your health when you're seeing the effects. fat shaming usually just results in doctors disregarding fat people's complaints and blaming their issues on their weight. yes, there definitely are some problems that are prevalent in fat people and are affected by weight; joint problems (although could be from any excess load such as exercising, autoimmune diseases etc.), insulin resistance (although could be genetic), cardiovascular issues (all of the above), but when doctors refuse to run any tests because they attribute all of your issues on your weight, it sucks. and it leads to a ton of misdiagnoses too. p. s. i'm not overweight and have never been overweight but body positivity/body neutrality have saved me multiple times

[@OriSnori]

There is also lots of data that yoyo dieting (and weight fluctuation) is also really bad for you... Considering that weight loss isnt usually sustainable, that means....almost all dieting ends up being yoyo dieting. And there is emerging research that the negative effects of weight loss are primarily due to significant weight CHANGE rather than weight gain. The weight losses also increase risk exponentially.

[@Craxin01]

I gotta say, as a fat guy, fat all my life, the fat acceptance movement just pisses me off and exhausts me.

[@user-ov2fc5sd1e]

You should've discussed how professional sumo wrestlers are mostly healthy (regarding their body fat percentages). I think it's got to do with where their fat is mostly distributed in the body (visceral fat vs subQ fat)

[@onodera3964]

I think it's got to do with them spending lots of time exercising. There's a difference between having lots of fat over a solid muscular core and being fat and barely able to carry your own weight.

[@Seanonyoutube]

The vast majority of humans will resort to the lifestyle they can afford. If a peasant lifestyle is working the fields in the daytime, eating whole plants and sleeping at night with family, then that’s what the population will be. If a peasant lifestyle is cheap fast food, a sedentary night shift job, and living in isolation, well, that will show up in the population’s health status too.