"Ask Ed": Ed Ward on Mow Tips

[@AprilVokey]

Ed!!! Amazing to see you! My question is... when can we get you on an Anchored episode? :)

[@fishduckdog]

Please 🙏 do!

[@OPSkagit]

We will ask him and get back to you!

[@dixonmak]

That's great info. I was confused before, now I have a better understanding of MOW tip. Will you be following up with iMOW and 3D MOW tips? The difference between the three types. Cheers.

[@tommytatham4649]

Awesome information Ed. It definitely helps me understand how best to utilize different tips based on the water and structure at hand.

[@OPSkagit]

Glad it was helpful!

[@robertwest7197]

Thanks Ed, always love seeing your informative videos.

[@OPSkagit]

Glad you like them!

[@rowdymacd]

I come from an Atlantic salmon background. Been living in the Fraser valley for the past 6 years and got into swinging flys for steelhead. I was out today and on the walk out I asked myself what’s the best tip to use and when? What’s the purpose of the mow? Then I get home and I get a notification for a video explaining just that. From Ed Ward of all people! Great stuff! 👍👌🍻

[@OPSkagit]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@WhiteDogs-f5z]

Ed, It is great that you are providing insight into the usage of sinking tips, unfortunately, I have made those mistakes you spoke of. But is always great to get your take on these details. What I would like to know is the history of the evolution of the Skagit method and intruder. The evolution of the creative process to Skagit, sinking tips, intruders, the individuals responsible, dates, and how the Alaskan Guiding, with your associates. influenced the techniques. It would be great for general interest but also for the history of fly fishing!!!!! I know that there are a number of individuals involved in the development of this steelhead method, but it is very hard to get a handle on it, especially when you don't live in Steelhead Country. You were a central player in this process. Let "to the best of your memory" be your guide. Thanks for making the instructional videos - they have been a great aid!

[@michaelcarter5345]

Excellent video, thanks!

[@johnparrish336]

SO….That’s how those work?!?! All kidding aside…much needed info. Thanks Ed!!!

[@OPSkagit]

Any time!

[@Ryan-jz2hc]

Hi Ed, I live in Colorado, with high gradient, choppy water loaded with large boulders. My rivers are on average not as wide as in PNW(I lived in Oregon for awhile). Do you recommend any MOW tips/setups for Colorado water types (trout fishing)? I’d be using 4-6 wt rods…

[@OPSkagit]

Interesting! The 50/50 IMow in the Light configuration should serve you well

[@Nrussell11]

​@@OPSkagit As someone who also lives in Colorado I'm certainly going to pick up a handful of these tips and give them a try, too!

[@Nrussell11]

Just out of curiosity, where are your home waters here in CO? I swing on the South Platte and Ark, and hardly ever see anyone else do it.

[@jasonpullan488]

Why hasn't someone done an actual, how where and way video on how to use mow tips, actually get someone on the river fishing the mows how they meant to be used and the types or locations where to use them PLEASE 😊

[@OPSkagit]

Good idea!

[@michaelkborozan4121]

Terrific explanation.... some more discussion on leader length with weighted fly would be appreciated.😂

[@OPSkagit]

Thanks for watching!

[@coltrevolver6212]

What lengths of a leader should be used in combination of these Mow tips when fishing guts and structures?

[@OPSkagit]

3'-5' of straight tippet in the appropriate pound test is best.

[@coltrevolver6212]

@ Thanks!

[@robertwest7197]

I have a question for Ed if it’s ok. My question is for the circle C cast. I see Ed has his arms crossed after the anchor set, while others have the hands on the non dominant casting side. Which is better , is there a significant difference or is it just preference? Thank you in advance.

[@OPSkagit]

We'll ask him!

[@robertwest7197]

@@OPSkagit I believe I did and in a polite way.

[@robertwest7197]

@@OPSkagit I believe I did in my initial comment.

[@OPSkagit]

@@robertwest7197 No offence meant by the !

[@robertwest7197]

@@OPSkagit no worries, I’m am and will always be a huge fan of OPST and Ed.

[@academicmailbox7798]

To differentiate from sinking tip, the dual density and triple densities that sink over longer length. The term they use often is sinking head or sinking belly lines. Which can be both integrated or non-integrated line products (skagit switch type line products, intermediate or slow sink skagit head). The eleven foot switch, mid west guys just aren't dealing with a water force or velocity like an Oregon river angler does, not to mind Washington State or any more north. With calmer running water I guess, switch is really gentle in presentation (but then the sink tip attachments, and belly to carry those, become too heavy for a switch rod to handle in high water). So they look to non-integrated, intermediate density heads they can change to (changing what had been straight 'floating to sink tip' arrangement, to a more complex, non-integrated, triple density solution). Fishing the same lighter tips in front of their slow-sink head, or belly line component. And achieve more depth by that way, without ever changing the eleven-foot switch rod. But I agree, it's a compromise, and it probably only is possible as a compromise. Because the flow velocity is not agressive (and boulders are not a thing, vast erosion of bed is not a thing). Mid western river channel can be more about deposit, than erosion. Western rivers had erosion, and erosion will move a lot of rock, or expose it.

[@academicmailbox7798]

A weight 4mm or 5mm tungsten bead which is ridiculously heavy (a dumbell almost twice that), won't sink in the true sense of the word, is very fast flow. Rather what it does is slow the fly down (and that fly weight combined with slightly upstream cast, with the upstream mend, or the rod tension manipulation). Together 'that mathematical equation' produces not only depth as necessary, but necessary de-celeration too. I have to admit, I didn't know what effect that short piece of sinking tip would have. In that arrangement. I had no idea it would be that useful in that way. But the one thing that folks who've never in their lives stood in steelhead rivers don't understand, is how rapidly water can move. The amount of kinetic energy it can muster. And in the face of all of it, how very little weight will account for in that situation. Even in 'slow' moving river, the larger tungsten fly won't really sink. Where there is current of some kind. Water has unbelievable amount of kinetic energy in it (which is probably why the engineers favored it as a medium around which to build their dam projects so much). We're used to occupying fresh air and gaseous mediums, so we don't intuitively understand what happens to mass in water very well. We're a bit like infants learning to crawl in that sense.

[@academicmailbox7798]

I've fished rivers with lots of erosion (and not a whole pile of 'classic' fly water). Cut banks have always been the bane of my existence. And situations exactly like where two rivers are joined with the mid-river seam. None of us ever understood how to approach fly fishing these places, and gave them back to gear anglers. So this idea is super interesting to me. I didn't know that detail about fly rate of fall, being approximate to the tip rate of fall either. And in those cut bank situations in makes sense. With the perpendicular cast.

[@MichaelPhillips-jw4bj]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding but LINE OR ROD WEIGHT/strength DOES NOT MEAN INCREASED DEPTH . The density of the line does.. I’m saying . A 11 foot SWITCH ( or a SHORT single hander) can properly fish THE NIAGARA RIVER the strongest FLOWING trout/charr/salmon water in the world. The depth is 130+ feet and 10 feet is where your flies need to be. there’s just no real visible depth advantage to Spey/ having a more grains and if it does exist it’s microscopic. Im just confused as why you think a 11 foot switch means gentle or no dredging

[@academicmailbox7798]

@@MichaelPhillips-jw4bj I must re-read what I wrote, but essentially reading it at a glance. It's the shape of line in profile, in how it sinks (fat floating skagit heads, combined with fast, heavy sink tip and weighted fly produces a right angle in the profile). Of the line as viewed from the side. What the Great Lakes switch rod anglers on slower rivers did, was not to use floating skagit heads, but intermediate slow-sink heads. Instead of a right angle, they have more like a straighter, sloping line (the set up slopes downhill gradually from where angler is standing to the fly at the end). What the north western anglers seemed to have wanted was that 'right angle' in profile. You can get down to ten foot with either way. Except that Great Lakes anglers because of their slower rivers had the luxury of time, to allow their set up's to acquire depth more gradually. North west Pacific river anglers did not (they had to achieve sink rate in a different way).

[@academicmailbox7798]

The other side to this is, your guy in Great Lakes with the switch rod and intermediate density skagit head, is more 'in contact' with his or her fly. Versus the fat skagit full floating head, which has the right-angle hinge point in it's intention. That angler is in contact with the 'full floating' part of that set-up, and that is basically all. The sinking tip, leader, weighted fly etc. Is all basically free to do with it likes. Except for the minor degree of adjustment which Ed talks about (where you can influence the fly elevation in a round-about way, by tension imposed on the floating head part). But itis very much, one stage removed. The mid-west guy with the intermediate density shooting head is in more direct contact with their fly.

[@kickthephase8750]

I assume this is relevant only to say the 5&5 or 2.5&7.5 tips, the 10ft t8 that comes with the tip is the same as any other normal sink tip right? And does all of this apply the same to the MOW 3d tips?

[@brockkluver9785]

Legend

[@everythingflytv507]

I have to ask, was OPST designed to be possible to fish with an indicator nymph setup as well? Is there a way? Would you guys be interested in making a similar video with information on how it would be setup?

[@OPSkagit]

Thanks for the question. So, our system wasn't specifically designed for nymphing, however, the system is very versatile and can be set up to nymph. Here's a video that we posted in the past: kzbin.info/door/hOk0JCdNfrE_1w4qRjTzag

[@michaelmayer2430]

Now can we get Ed Ward on 3d mow tips?

[@OPSkagit]

We'll ask!

[@blairwhitaker3078]

'promosm' 🔥

[@busterbuffalo5554]

Should of said it 15 years ago, ja ja