Ask GN 114: My AIO Will Explode? Tubes Down Don't Reach? Cavitation? Custom Loops?

[@GamersNexus]

It's been so cool to hear from so many of you about how flipping your radiator to tubes down fixed your noise issues! Thanks for the awesome questions! Lot of newer or mainstream viewers in that previous one, so we took some time to sort of re-walk through some stuff and answer new ones here. First video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJOqoKCsZp5oqc0 Grab a high-quality GN Wireframe Mouse Mat for a desk-sized mousing surface and support our testing directly: store.gamersnexus.net/products/gn-wireframe-mouse-mat Or a GN Medium Modmat for PC builds: store.gamersnexus.net/products/medium-modmat-gpu

[@bryanlue721]

Gamers Nexus hi

[@Carrotsalesman]

You guys did nothing wrong with the last video, it was fine. Everyone seems a little high strung these days with human malware. Just ignore it and push on, it's a very, very small percent of your viewers, very small. Don't sweat it.

[@tbthegr81]

19:54 I was actually missing some pictures like that in the previous video. It makes it relatively easy to show a bunch of correct and wrong orientations that folks can then compare too. Was surprised ya only went with video showing a few positions.

[@DarkZenith]

Great Follow up Steve, Thank you for the detailed info, always great watching these.

[@TheOriginalFaxon]

Hey I just wanted to say thank you for doing this content, i've been catching up on my own knowledge and have never used an AIO before so I didn't know a lot of this stuff at all and found it really useful. Also my large modmat arrived yesterday so thank you for that, you guys should see it featured on my channel soon when our first series of DIY videos go live.

[@megaglowz8540]

Watching Steve trying not to call peoples comments stupid/lacking common sense, is the best part of this.

[@tasilium]

This seriously needs more likes

[@corwinwhitehorn7759]

I don't understand how he manage to do it... I did facepalm a few time reading the questions 🤦‍♂️

[@dragoonsunite]

I was looking for this comment to see if I needed to make it... It's incredible the fact that he has to explain a 90 degree rotation on the horizontal access changes nothing about the results he talked about... It reminds me of when I was like 2 or 3 years old and the concepts of object transitivity were still not entirely 100% concrete, or I was realizing that some words were root words to other words... It's just such strong evidence that people aren't even trying to think about what is actually going on at all, and just looking for a perfect visual representation of their system with big letters that say "BAD" or "GOOD" next to them...

[@SparkY0]

I love it when KZbin celebrities visibly hate their fans. It really makes me want to keep watching and buy their stuff.

[@daryltownsend]

Short Version: Sit down, be patient and learn. Not everything can be explained in a 5 minute video. Great job as always Steve.

[@Bassjunkie_1]

Side mounted. No one is taking your information in lol, are the tubes at the top? Then it makes no difference if its side, back or front.

[@KeppyKep]

Love this comment

[@hugevibez]

Can someone TL:DR this comment for me?

[@sirmyself]

@@hugevibez tl:dr : no tl:dr for the video.

[@georgemorley1029]

Really short version - use an air cooler.

[@TriccyViccy]

Ok, so TLDR: watch the damn video?

[@iankemp2627]

It's difficult enough to get so-called enthusiasts to do so, or read an article from start to end... do you really think mainstream users will?

[@Kaelygon]

@@iankemp2627 If someone doesn't care to hear/read the whole story. Do they care enough if their pump is going to last a year or two longer?

[@Lordosvk]

TLDW

[@shawnpitman876]

@@iankemp2627 If you consider yourself an "enthusiast" but won't watch or read the entirety of something are you even actually an enthusiast? Or just a poser who wants to act like they know things when they really don't understand any of it and just use cookie cutter settings/setups?

[@Amgine37]

Can always watch at 1.25 speed if normal speed runs on too long ;)

[@JarrodsTech]

2:20 I'm going to intentionally use the worst possible setup so I get heaps of these comments and more engagement, big brain moves

[@potatosmasher1072]

I wonder how you plan on doing so with a laptop

[@quasar9882]

The Verge did it already.

[@ArturoTabera]

You shameless TheVerge copycat!

[@potatosmasher1072]

Jk love ya reviews

[@cmja09]

Free publicity

[@chocochook]

"Engineers, there's some really good ones and there's some new ones" As a newer engineer I both laughed and felt personally attacked. 100% agree though, great video.

[@andrewt.5567]

I know the feeling. I would probably be bad at marketing too though. I get in trouble all the time for putting too much detail in my plant reports.

[@jhall8319]

The problem is, there are thousands of completely different jobs engineers do, and hundreds of degrees and jobs with "engineer" in the name... That in my opinion should say tech ( nothing wrong with that at all BTW). Also just beacuase you can complete even an ivy league course doesn't mean you have the ability to use that knowledge well.

[@jameslaine2472]

@@andrewt.5567 that's because "the devil is in the details" as the saying goes, and everyone knows that the devil is bad right, therefore the details must be bad by association. ;-)

[@afrog2666]

The same goes for any profession or skill really, nobody is great day 1 ;)

[@Chris-ji8jw]

So,as a smart math guy, or gal, is it best to push the fluids uphill, because of science and their related equations. Pump should always be at the bottom, if possible, right. Does this apply to open loops. Look dude; I suck at math, okay. Be thankful you're good at it. Not everyone can do that! Basically, what I got out 9f this video is, pump at bottom, and do not put a radiator at the bottom. And it is better to push water uphill, rather than downhill, because air tends to go to the highest point. Lol, if I am annoying you, please don't answer. I just want to place components, the best way possible, and you gave the ability, to understand those complex equations, that they talk about.

[@secondclasselitist4568]

Them: We NeEd A sHoRt AtTeNtIoN VeRsIoN!!!! Steve: Then mount it *this way*. Them: BuT..BuT WhY???? Steve:

[@robertnees9781]

Damn it people, just turn your case over, problem solved 😂

[@nogravitas7585]

easy access to the bottom dust filter since its now on the top

[@lenscapes2755]

Bravo! Might as well mount it onto a spinning stand so that you can easily turn it.

[@rosterdam7198]

Oh man, yeah, what if I just lay it on it’s side??

[@greenanubis]

@@rosterdam7198 Oh, man, oh, man, we need another video.

[@sijedevos2376]

Robert Nees but my nzxt h500 has the power button and USB port on the top

[@omegaelixir]

I want to see more Beve Sturke

[@GamersNexus]

No one wants more of that!

[@omegaelixir]

@@GamersNexus No more outrage, just Beve!!

[@scottyhaines4226]

@@GamersNexus we want to see him sabotage Jayz2Cents when he does ripGN.

[@JusttheEdge]

@@GamersNexus need more hype

[@bromazepam781]

@@scottyhaines4226 YES!

[@nitebleu]

I know this will get lost in the flood of comments that I was just reading....but coming from one of the mainstream viewers that really just got turned on to your channel - thank you. I haven’t built a system in over a decade, but thanks to your content I am almost through my midrange build. This video (and the one that necessitated this one lol) provided exactly the information I needed to not only do it right - but to know WHY it’s right. That’s in addition to the ones I have watched from you covering the rest of my build. Thanks for catching me up and helping revive an old addiction.

[@StubbornProgrammer]

Here's the real TL;DR: Marketing people shouldn't be allowed to "talk" to the public without engineer supervision.

[@elus89]

Or "How not to sell a product; Allow the engineer to talk".

[@buetzelsen]

It kinda goes both ways. Both shouldn't be allowed to talk to customers without hearing, accepting and regarding the other ones expertise. But so far I found no company that really had a good interface between marketing and engineering people (I'm on the engineering side of things) and thus marketing is usually hot garbage.

[@shanehebert396]

I was the head software guy for a product we had at this one company. I got sent on site and to some "very technical" conferences. People using our stuff would ask questions and I could tell them very detailed answers. In one case, I answered a question and someone said "are you sure that's the way it works?" and I replied "yeah, I wrote that bit myself" or the equivalent. I could also tell them stuff like "yeah, it doesn't quite work that way." or "don't do it that way, this other way is faster". They seemed to really like that. Marketing found out and weren't happy. My "marketing" trips became fewer.

[@TheChudoviste]

@StubbornProgrammer Dude,the problem was that 14 year old kids were trying to show off their "computer knowledge and expertise" and "interpret" Steve's lessons to other 14 years old without computer knowledge. Did you really thought anything other than this would happen?

[@TheChudoviste]

No,HERE'S the REAL TL:DR: MARKETING people don't "talk" to the PUBLIC. But an eager 14 year old's "know-it-alls" just love to represent as "experts" and pass their "knowledge" to other 14 year old's with less knowledge....

[@uss_04]

People Misconstrue the contents of a video: Linus: Apologizes GN Steve: “It’s free follow up content”

[@thorscape3879]

It's not entirely Linus' fault. He had no control in being born Canadian.

[@UNSCPILOT]

Not gunna lie I watched a bitwit video before this, I now can't stop staring at how the cooler is mounted in his system, it's the worst case scenario XD

[@TheVillainOfTheYear]

@@UNSCPILOT Bitwit Kyle even had a cooler die in an evolve shift with a bottom mounted radiator in one of his HTPC videos.

[@Pakulia]

Hey, as a 'main stream' audience member I just wanted to say this: Thank you for this explination. I am building my very first PC with a standard AIO watercooler and the first video was clear enough. It made me check my stuff and I actually already mounted the cooler the correct way, but now I know why it's correct. The AIO manual doesn't say anything about it (Corsair H100i). Anyway I just wanted to mention that mainstream audience is layered into 'new enthousiasts' and others :) I suppose I belong to the 'new enthousiast' group and that is entirely thanks to KZbinrs like yourself and people like Jay and Linus. So I want to THANK YOU for everything you do, keep up the good work! You've helped me discover a new passion which might actually turn into a new job opportunity, as I am currently unemployed. Thanks again, from a fellow curly-head.

[@nocturnal0072]

Bold move using an aio for your first build. FYI check it every so often for leaks. Just a water cooling thing. Doesn't matter if it's an aio or custom loop.

[@coredumperror]

This is the kind of comment I love to see. :)

[@bookworm8415]

Isn’t GN a goldmine? I keep trying to subscribe to other places and outside some really specific instances, just end up arguing with other channels. If you have not tried them yet, HardwareUnboxed (upside down steve) is equally knowledgable but in their own way and not much actually overlaps between the two channels (GN & HUB). De8auer is pretty good but more for educational or random extreme stuff though he has some build videos that are ok to watch. Another really fun channel for more of a beginner flair is JayzTwoCents. He orients his channel for that kind of stuff. Good luck!

[@Pakulia]

@@bookworm8415 Thanks! I actually already follow pretty much all of them haha, Paul's Hardware too. But GN and Jay2C are definitely my favourites :)

[@coredumperror]

@@Pakulia Same here. GN gives you the hard and fast, *reliable* numbers, while Jayz brings a good second perspective and a nice bit of levity. They make an excellent combination.

[@kintustis]

I appreciate your patience in dealing with these questions

[@Heinz76Harald]

true dat :D

[@BloPsy__]

People with bottom mounted radiator **Panik** Steve informing them, that it won't explode overnight **Kalm** Steve adding "most likely" to the sentence **Panik**

[@nigelwilliams449]

"It hit a really mainstream audience" "They don't understand what we were talking about" - Just say it as it is, we wont be offended.

[@Adromelk]

You can seen him trying to keep his cool and smile while seeing the frustration in his eyes. Keep going steve, you'll get through to them eventually.

[@316whatupz]

But Steve, I paid for a full water bottle and not a 10% air water bottle. 😜😂😉

[@GamersNexus]

It won't be long before that air is valuable!

[@jimiscott]

@@GamersNexus Air-X

[@The-OGRE]

Perri-Air

[@Lordosvk]

@@GamersNexus funny and sad ath the same time :D

[@rednammoc]

@@The-OGRE Eau! I see wat-er you did there

[@MoraFermi]

"The engineers in this industry, there are some really good ones and there are some really... new ones." Perfectly dodged! Chapeau bas!

[@longjohn526]

Experience counts ..... All Engineers make mistakes but the good engineers learn from them and never make the same mistake twice ..... If you can't admit to a mistake you'll always be at the bottom tier .... There are several politicians that could learn from these facts too ......

[@georgf9279]

@@longjohn526 Those who were able to learn from these facts didn't become politicians in the first place.

[@astramolly]

I don’t know if I dug this comment. This is totally true, but a big company will have a big team of engineers, both experienced/good and inexperienced/not as good. So the overall product shouldn’t have key design flaws unless literally the *entire* engineering team was bad.

[@ElGuerreroMaya]

@@longjohn526 from an engineering student I can tell you this is very much true

[@valkyrie067]

Engineers design the parts, they don't always get to decide how it's used.

[@trentonbennettVO]

Both of these were worth the journey, and I really appreciated having the visual that shows me the water flow inside the AIO. For those of you wondering how well various pre-builts do, I thought it's worth mentioning that in 2010 Alienware got it right: my overclocked Area-51 ALX is still running great today. I had a brief hiatus using an H80i and then went back to the stock cooler - which was always top-mounted, tubes down. I just fixed one of my DIYs after watching the first of these - thanks again for all the effort!

[@gavelkynde4837]

I was panicking - trying desperately to rip side off my system unit - I could hear the pump whine rising - the acrid smell of burning plastic choking me - blackness closing in... just managed to get the side off in time - there I could see it. Mounted correctly - everything was fine. I told the lady on the phone (I had called the fire department shrieking at them I was going to die) to get lost, settled back in my chair, and breathed a long, deep sigh. Then my house fell down. Thanks a lot Gamer's Nexus.

[@Marcelis]

That was good🤣

[@ashleyjaytanna1953]

I think that this is a issue that creates voids and eventually pops ....there is an air gap ...

[@christenlanger]

Love that one part: Don't pester YTers EXCEPT THIS GUY

[@muhschaf]

That's trolling among a bromance. ^^

[@WyRmiE]

Its just a joke? Coz i thought bauer is top guy. Even though i think hes more OC guy them water cooling system guy

[@christenlanger]

@@WyRmiE Yes, it's a joke. Steve and Roman are bros.

[@tombudd1281]

"I can fit it that way so how is it wrong?" - Try that reasoning with your partner and let us know how that goes :)

[@thomasfields2749]

I did 9 years ago and we're still together and spoiler alert it wasnt wrong lol

[@Gretchen_Trouble]

@@thomasfields2749 r/ihavesex material right here.

[@aranya_das]

@@Gretchen_Trouble r/ihavereddit material right here.

[@rosen9425]

That is the black hole of youtube comments right there. Respond and you're past the event horizon of "it will never understand" :D

[@Owl90]

How can it be wrong if it feels so right?

[@aaronpettit3813]

"Instead of fixing my problem, I've compounded it." Can that be the next GN tee shirt? That's my whole life in one phrase lol

[@hobbes2234]

Yes, please.

[@Kolzigstudio]

Steve, thank you for this. Did my first build with a 3 fan radiator and mounted it in the front of the case. There was nothing in the documentation with the cooler to make sure that the barbs were at the bottom. While my pump is not at the top of the loop, I am still in that sub-optimal category. I will look into flipping the rad this week, I appreciate this amount of information. It is super important to not only know the how, but why. I had no idea that the entire system was not filled 100% with liquid. TDiL

[@CookieDLX]

Does this issue also occur with the hair mounting kit that is sold separately?

[@docferringer]

I bet Steve's hair gets in his face when he bends over the pump. Same thing happens to my girlfriend...for different reasons.

[@g00gleminus96]

Steve has a custom hair mounting solution.

[@code-dredd]

-"How is it wrong if it fits?" *Set of Possible Responses:* 1. That's like hearing someone else ask: _How could chlorine be poisonous if you can drink it?_ 2. That's what she said. 3. That's what I told her. 4. ???

[@MazdaChris]

I can fit my underpants on my head. Do we believe that's the correct way to wear underpants? If you answered 'yes', you probably shouldn't be installing a CPU cooler without responsible adult supervision anyway.

[@ramshead7379]

I had a NZXT X62 Kraken front mounted in a NZXT H510i, so you could maybe call this a joined up solution where they have been designed to fit together. I had it tubes up and it all fitted very nicely top and bottom of the radiator (...and it matched the NZXT photos...) I flipped it round so the tubes were at the bottom. It fits but not as nicely. You have to use all of the available tolerance on the radiator bracket to get it to fit and even then the tubes look uncomfortably tight to the bottom of the case. The 'mainstream audience' would i think draw the conclusion from all of this that the AIO has been designed to be installed front mounted, tubes up and that tubes down is wrong. (1 day in and the clicking noise the pump makes has not gone...)

[@ValkyrieStarTV]

@@ramshead7379 I've had my 360mm aio front mounted with tubes at the top (but pump/block is at a slightly lower level) for a few years now (think this unit has a gen3 or gen4 pump), the pump speed is low enough that it doesn't pull air through from the radiator and make noise unless the system is really hot where the fans are going balls out and a slight occasional air bubble noise is of no concern.

[@johntniman]

This should be on a shirt with Snowflake sitting in a case.

[@theangryhog]

I can pour water in my car's gas tank, so it must be ok to use

[@tyber_roman313]

Bold of Steve to assume that I don't use a 20 ft impeller as my pump and actually have to worry about cavitation

[@nocturnal0072]

I prefer a briggs powered trash pump.

[@CMDR-V-UncleJ]

i see no problem in DYI 4 core alum rad for say a 77 nova( example) and electric Hi flow water pump :-) from Summit racing

[@nocturnal0072]

@@CMDR-V-UncleJ Heater cores were a thing in the 90's.

[@CMDR-V-UncleJ]

@@nocturnal0072 i have a welder i thot about doing sheet metal rat rod build with a small Atv rad paint it copper sticking out of the case on the front.. some mock sparkplug wires.... but i need a new desk for that.

[@nocturnal0072]

@@CMDR-V-UncleJ I was about to just buy a transcooler kit. Comes with fans and mounts. But finding a pump to go with it that doesn't suck 10amps.

[@anonamouse2144]

Thank you for explaining in detail, again. I did watch your whole "Stop Doing it wrong Video" but wasn't confident I knew for sure how to correctly install an AIO. Now I'm confident to not put the water block at the top of the loop period. I'm a noob about to build my first pc, and a high end AMD at that and you cleared up a lot including how to install and the normal life expectancy of a water cooler when installed correctly. Again Thank you for all the great diagnostic and detective info.

[@khandagod]

I will say I saw one manufacturer video/install instruction that demonstrated what your video said was the "ideal" configuration for your AIO. Only one. All in all your video was very informative. Thanks again. This also allowed better utilization of the space in my case lol.

[@WTP_DAVE]

When Steve makes a 33 min video on coolers because people asked for a tldr. legend.

[@Ss-tt9pp]

Nothing legendary about it

[@Carrotsalesman]

He put out a half hour long video, in calm and vivid detail, explaining benefits and setbacks of various orientations. And everyone panicks!? The world is so tense right now, wow.

[@arbalestt4590]

So many idiots can't process simple information.

[@KDub57]

@@arbalestt4590 not everyone has the patience to watch a half-hour video. Most youtube content is much shorter than that. Many people aren't interested in learning all the details and nuances of a topic and just want a quick and dirty explanation. And if there's something they don't understand, they just want that one specific question answered in the comments rather than sitting through a half-hour video to see if their question happens to be answered. It's just how people are. They're not idiots for it.

[@whtalt92]

@@KDub57 (near) instant gratification. The bane of modern society. Maybe more relatable, understandable analogies (like, in this case, how the cooling system & radiator in your car works) might help with this subject matter, but I suspect most people barely know where their coolant reservoir is when they open the hood ;)

[@lanycera]

@@arbalestt4590 Some people had to start off somewhere. It was hard for me to digest all the information too in that 30min video, and the second video helped. Maybe just be happy that there is ever-growing interest and people actually want to learn :)

[@XenoksPL]

Steve: "it's not gonna explode overnight... MOST LIKELY" So what you're telling me is, there is a chance

[@peterpain6625]

**facepalm** ;)

[@allmybasketsinoneegg]

Technically, everything could explode overnight.

[@Drubnubjagr]

@@allmybasketsinoneegg Everything except the sun, if it explodes it will be during daytime

[@melzy0146]

@@Drubnubjagr due to its orientation in space the sun doesn't register whether it's day or night time 😜

[@xXDeltaXxwhotookit]

There's always a chance... like the probability of being killed by a duck is low, but never zero. . .

[@tucci06]

"How's it wrong if it fits?" 27:28 Ask this company, who fit 12 useless fans into this case.

[@paulie-g]

You can fit a screwdriver into your earhole with enough pressure applied, with very unsatisfactory results. That's besides all the dirty analogies that are available.

[@UncleButterworth]

@@paulie-g Bowling pin in bumbum

[@tomasnadion]

I've bought some AIOs over the years and I do basically the same. I'll take them apart, put the coldplate in vinegar into the ultrasonic cleaner. Clean pump, tubes and radiator. Then I fill the loop and before closing it I will put radiator into hot water. So theoretically it can work at 70°C without the tendency of water to leak by expansion.

[@thedeleted117]

"AIO Explodes overnight" DAMN IT, STEVE!

[@bigal2688]

OMG! That Thumbnail!! LMAO! 🤣🤣🤣

[@GamersNexus]

Good to see you back in the comments, Al!

[@KarrasBastomi]

@@River_Miles i can read, on 5" phone

[@nocturnal0072]

@@River_Miles "PANIC! AT THE AIO!"

[@Florian.K.]

32:08 I laughed so hard at this, i spilled half my coffee over my GN Mouse Mat (store.gamersnexus.net).) Sadly this is a problem you come across quite frequently when trying to explain technical things to people on the business side of the company.... Where sometimes it would be enough just to pay attention throughout the whole explanation instead of waiting for a "simple" conclusion at the end. Some things just aren't simple enough to be understood with a 2 sentence conclusion. Really speaking to my heart there Steve

[@rrnaBo]

"it's not gonna explode..... *underbreath " most likely""" - Steve

[@selvinmateo1957]

I am new to AIO so seeing both videos helps me a lot to understand about them. when i decided to build computer in the future i will make sure to review both videos again when purchasing parts.

[@LordBattleSmurf]

This was actually helpful I still had 2 questions after watching the first video and this answered both in crystal clear fashion. Thanks!

[@jojobobbubble5688]

"Panic at the AIO" :Nice!

[@hafidbagaskara8109]

High Thermal 😂

[@myraidmyst2536]

Meanwhile me looks at the noctua and raises glass: "to you"

[@ravenshrike]

The only reason for an AIO is aesthetics, or in an SFF case where the cooler height isn't there for a decent air cooler.

[@GamersNexus]

@@ravenshrike That's not the only reason. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYfdiXuLidZ4bac

[@tillbot1651]

High five noctua gang. I for one do not regret my purchase.

[@ravenshrike]

Less than 10 degrees C(between the x72 and the Deepcool and Noctua) when noise normalized means that unless you're hotboxing the CPU those better thermals are largely irrelevant. But I suppose I should amend my initial statement to cover all the bases. Aesthetics, form factor issues, very poor case airflow, or bragging rights. In terms of everyday performance the difference is a negligible. While Ryzen technically improves it's clock speed at lower temperatures, for a actual significant difference you need to drop it farther than an AIO can.

[@TheOneTonHammer]

@@GamersNexus Are we talking steady state, because my PC runs for days at a time, doing workstation stuff. Steady state is irrelevant. The Noctua does a great job and cools the VRM's to boot. My install is nice and clean. I don't really want a couple of tubes hanging down from a radiator. There's also 0.0% chance my D15 would ever spring a leak. I remain unconvinced.

[@MunyuShizumi]

*If you're planning to flip your rad* I highly recommend reading this wall of text/PSA (tl;dr on bottom). I actually had a quite bad (AIO will literally explode!) issue with the vertical tubes-down vs. tubes-up rad configuration where the pump is somewhere around the middle to the side, as shown at 9:30. Technically, the pump isn't at the top of the loop, but shuffling the AIO around while (re)assembling everything somehow got most of the air into the pump. Once I turned it on, the pump was producing a very loud and disturbing gurgling noise, and "liquid" temperature got to 50°C on idle CPU within 1-2 minutes (except it's not liquid temp of course, it was just the dry pump overheating, the probe can't really tell what it's measuring). So much air got into the pump that it couldn't push it all the way down the tubes to the bottom of the rad, so even though the pump technically wasn't at the very top of the entire loop, it was effectively a second top in a U-like configuration where air accumulated and couldn't get out, which prevented the pump from pushing any liquid to the rad as well (hence the rapid rise in temperature). Running the pump at maximum did nothing to resolve this. What I had to do was run the pump while holding the case in mid-air rotated by 90°CCW with the pump at the very bottom of the loop so gravity can do its work. This resolved the issue within seconds, but I kept it running like that for another 10 minutes, then slowly rotated the case 90°CW back into its normal upright position so the air would accumulate at the top of the rad. Flipping the case on its side for a few minutes might not sound so bad, until you realize it's a wall-mount test-bench-like Thermaltake P3 (carrying it to the wall without disturbing the loop was impossible), and holding it with 1 arm while SSHing in with the other to check temps and adjust pump speed is a bit of a hassle for those of us with less testosterone. AIO is a 3-y.o. NZXT Kraken X62 if anyone's interested. Note that this is something that could never (and never did) happen with a tubes-up configuration, as the pump doesn't have to fight buoyancy through 10" of tubing to get the air out. Air bubbles might get in, but will never create a huge pocket of air in the pump. I'd say that tubes-up is a lot safer for inexperienced users in this regard, and would recommend it over tubes-down for prebuilts or builds for your muggle friends. *tl;dr* If you're going to flip the tubes down, make sure that air didn't accumulate in the pump, cause it might just end up permanently stuck in there while your pump commits suicide. Ideally, run the system with the pump at the very bottom of the loop for a while so all the air gets out, then slowly and gently move it back into its original pump-to-the-side orientation while keeping the rad at the top of the loop. Or for Steve's sake, install your rad horizontally at the top if possible.

[@treyreece3948]

Thank you. I had the same problem.

[@Marandil]

This is why I disagree with the comment that cooler tubes orientation doesn't matter. If you have cooler tubes exiting at the bottom, it's more likely that air pockets gather inside the block instead of "bubbling up" into the tubes. If the tubes exit from the top (or maybe from the side if the outlet is at the top, but this may vary), air pockets will bubble into the tubes instead and get pushed into the radiator (regardless of its orientation).

[@cosmicclayton4399]

Got a water cooled 2070 from EVGA today and they actually had a little card in there with an infographic showing where to properly mount the radiator 👍

[@Jay-ik1pt]

Same on my 1080Ti so EVGA's been on top of this potential issue for at least a few years now.

[@AshStorm09]

As a veteran builder that still enjoys learning new things, I absolutely enjoyed this and the last video. You going the extra effort for clarification with a 2nd video is admirable.

[@NetNeelsie]

I low key want to see a Patronizing-Steve's "how water works" video.

[@madmax2069]

It's pretty much why a cars engine cooling system it set up like it is. The radiator is the highest point and the pump (and the coolant passages in the engine) sit lower than the highest point of the radiator (yes the radiator in a car is set up slightly different as the radiator inlet is at the top, and the radiator outlet is at the bottom). It's pretty much to avoid air being trapped in the engine. I understood your video pretty clearly.

[@kasuraga]

also the inlet to the engine is on the bottom and the outlet from the engine is at the top, ensuring the engine doesnt suck air as long as the radiator has some water

[@christophervanzetta]

@@kasuraga Water coolant mixture. Pure water will freeze in the winter and cause issues

[@kasuraga]

@@christophervanzetta that has nothing to do with what i said. of course you put antifreeze into coolant. it lowers its freezing temp and raises its boiling temp but that has no relevance to what i said

[@JusttheEdge]

Lots of new cars have complex bleed systems so the radiator can be mounted lower for a smaller frontal area.

[@nocturnal0072]

@@JusttheEdge That is mostly true, but even than, the pump is never at the top.

[@technerd5489]

Ever since the other video people think their an AIO expert. I do have my tubes up, and it’s like Steve said, it’s mainly for noise, but can effect the pump over time with permeation. My pump is whisper quiet right now so I am happy where it’s at. When it does start to make noise I will top mount the AIO in a new case. People need to pay attention more. I don’t even like posting build photos anymore since everyone is an AIO expert now and says move your radiator lol.

[@thecasualdad84]

Mine is front mounted with tubes on top. My pump is a lot lower than the radiator. I don’t hear anything at all and my temps are really low.

[@eltorocal]

Every system I have built for someone who requested a certain all-in-one liquid cooling loop, I have recommended and suggested a small reservoire be spliced into the loop to get rid of air in the system and for visual inspections... Easy fill and replecement. The loop is airless... 100%.

[@floydsimpson9008]

"That's not how it works! I'm not trying to be condescending ..." I feel this statement so much!

[@noodled6145]

TDLW: Cooler will burst into flames, explode and burn down your house.

[@nocturnal0072]

In that order.

[@andrewt.5567]

@@nocturnal0072 No. It will burn your house down prior to bursting into flames. Because it is cooler.

[@center4nerds]

before your last video I had just taken my computer apart to add a few fans, re arrange them all, and give it a deep cleaning. I was front mounted hoses up... I wish your video had been out AFTER i had redone everything LOL. I had noticed a slight gurgling when I booted it up but I figured it just had some air in the system after being moved around so much in the detailed cleaning. I have since flipped the radiator upside down and the noise to 0 and I gained 2.5C° at idle. I had installed the AIO per the manufactures instructions (and yes i did read the manual) and installed it per their instructions. So thank you for making this video and the one before it. I consider myself computer proficient but didn't have any knowledge on this topic. Going forward i'll probably go back to air coolers though.

[@emreugrasiz5564]

I have bought a 4000D airflow case and H115i Platinum AIO. Although I have watched some reviews, it requires short RAMs like Gskill to be mounted on the top, I did everything I could but it does not fit. Now I had to mount it in front. Surprise, it does not fit in front with tubes down, because of the PSU shroud’s hilarious length. A corsair aio with a Corsair case, which officially supports(!) it. The compatibility(!) is all documented. There is 5-year warranty of H115i, now it is their problem if the tubes are up or down. TL;DR: Warranty is for when the engineers and designers fail. Don’t freak about it and game on.

[@Supervhizor]

"But how is it wrong if it fits?" At this point, these people deserve to be made fun of.

[@adblockturnedoff4515]

Unless you are a cat - snowflake the CEO. If it fits it sits.

[@Owl90]

That's what I told my gf. jk

[@crowdemon_archives]

Just shoot them back with "just because I can technically fit [a dangerous object] into [something said object do not belong, or an orifice even] doesn't mean it's right."

[@ppulf968]

@@crowdemon_archives I belong to the HBQWERTY+-*/ community, i feel offended by your words

[@TheSynrgy1987]

"It's not going to explode overnight.... Most likely".... They mostly come out at night... Mostly...

[@pieking4]

would it make sense for AIO manufacturers to start offering coolers with longer tubing to fit the needs of different use cases? to me it seems very odd that there are situations where if one wants to install a 360mm AIO front-mounted that there's a chance the tubes won't be long enough to install the cooler in the optimal orientation. I personally use a Lian-Li Lancool Mesh case which allows the use of a front-mounted 360mm AIO, but only up to a 280mm AIO at the top. My GPU is a Sapphire Nitro+ 5700xt which is an exceptionally long card. That puts me in a position where I would likely have to sacrifice the performance of the 360mm AIO as the tubing likely won't be long enough to make its way from the bottom of the radiator, around the GPU, and up to the CPU socket. I'm pretty much playing the devil's advocate here, as for my use case a 280mm AIO would be more than sufficient to cool my CPU efficiently, BUT for those who use a much more power-hungry chip, why are they put in a position where in some way, shape, or form, they need to sacrifice cooling potential or commit to a much more complicated and expensive solution in order for everything to operate in its optimal configuration?

[@LiquidFoxDesigns]

I would disagree with this because you are now just creating two high spots for air to build, both pump and rad. It makes more sense to have the tubing always traveling uphill from the pump so water settles in the pump and any trapped air can travel away from the pump while not circulating.

[@akiraic]

@@LiquidFoxDesigns that can easily be avoided by NOT MOUNTING the radiator. Mount the pump, put the rad in the correct position outside the case. Let it run for a couple minutes/hours, shake a little bit. After that, you can be sure that there is no bubbles in the pump. Now you can mount the rad in the front panel, slowly and making sure you don't turn it so the bubbles are kept at the rad. At least that's how I always did.

[@antoine6338]

I'm in the same case I have a Lancool II Mesh and I don't know if i should take a 240 AIO to put at the top of my case, or a 360 and take risks to put it with the hoses/tubes at the top and not at the bottom because tubes are too short...

[@ChronSyn]

I know this video is a couple of years old, but it's important to address that hot air doesn't rise in the strict sense of the phrase. Heat energy attempts to reach equilibrium - a stable state. What this means is that heat energy will transfer from a hot location (high energy) to a cooler location (low energy) in order to reach an equilibrium and create a consistent temperature throughout. It will also follow the path of least resistance to get there. For example, if the lower part of your case is cooler and you don't have fans, the heat would naturally attempt to move towards that location. Both GPU and CPU are producing heat when operating (also RAM, SSD's, etc), and that heat will attempt to relocate wherever is cooler, but the energy potential of the components isn't high enough to overcome active airflow in a closed case - the path of least resistance is to follow the path of airflow.

[@Liqtor]

The basic of water cooling, both AIO and custom loops. The pump need to be below water level. That's why people use a reservoir to get the water level higher, and make it practically easier to fill.

[@avivlab]

22:13 - As a physicist/engineer, I approve this XD This channel is amazing! Keep the good work! I remember seeing a comparison between front and top-mounted rads*. I think it can really depend on the ventilation of the case**, as there are several factors that come into play here. Might be interesting to see you doing a comparison of your own between mounting positions***. Anyway, as you said, this is not nearly enough as important as the acoustic/performance issue caused by mounting improperly, so if you can't mount it properly at the front just mount it at the top. * Assuming top means as exhaust ** Won't matter as much in a well-ventilated case (hypothesis) ***** Will also be more informative if replicated between different cases. (sry had to do this)

[@alexatkin]

No warning that results may vary between manufacturers, designs, or slight variation if your 12V line is slightly lower/higher? ;)

[@elus89]

Heat rises is absolutely a factor though. If CFMs matter, contending with natural air movement tendencies matters by default. Hot air will more naturally exhaust at the top, so if the radiator is slowing down the air movement at the top (and it does) then the case will trap more heat. It depends on how much intensity your system is driven to overall of course, but if you're pushing high frame rates at 4K and maxing out your CPU and graphics card, you're probably not going to want them to throttle. Nowadays, CPUs will react not just to high temps, but perceived head room. Small clock differences can matter a lot, as Jay's review of the Ryzen 3000 XT series showed and as Intel benchmarks show.

[@pushyrummble8625]

You don't even need to study for anything to understand this tbh, hot air goes up and if it's in a closed system it will try to go to the highest thing. So make sure it stays trapped instead of it always being moved around within the system.

[@dycedargselderbrother5353]

"PANIC! AT THE AIO!" Great reference, though I wonder how many get it at this point.

[@nocturnal0072]

Is it wrong that I immediately thought of glowing genitals?

[@skatterpro]

Barely any people from that generation have died or gotten alzheimer's yet, you're not that old. Wanting your shame buried doesn't make it so.

[@Assasinato2]

Thank you Steve for this follow up, after watching your video yesterday i imminently changed my orientation but was scared, but this video helped ease my mind about my aio lol

[@raze4789]

TLDR: As long as the physically highest part of your radiator is physically higher than your pump, You're ok. If not, you'll get bubbling noises on startup and possibly reduce the life of your pump. If the pump does fail, it's ok. Your CPU will protect itself in most scenario's. (Suggest corrections if needed.)

[@Gretchen_Trouble]

Thank you so much Steve for taking the time to re-explain it to to an audience at a different level than your regular viewers. Really shows the caliber of your character.

[@SaxaphoneMan42]

"Stop pestering KZbinrs" ... **Me, about to ask Steve again when RAM timings explained part 2 is coming out**

[@logwhitley]

I love the thumb nails on GN

[@loonie5468]

Really looking like a mental breakdown in this one.

[@brainfriiz2351]

Sounds like we need representative engineers in marketing departments with absolute veto power over marketing misusing products.

[@philczternastek8760]

The conclusion is one of the reasons Steve is amazing. Thanks. Short version: The entire hunk of aluminum that is the radiator should be placed above the pump with an aio cooler. To me this is pretty much saying that radiators should exclusively be mounted at the top of the case. Please let me know if I am missing nuance.

[@joost1183]

You are missing a nuance. Tubes down on front mounts with radiator top above pump is also good. 360s often dont fit in the top.

[@EndUser-yu7gg]

Still glad to sanity check and sure enough fellow I got system from had this orientation wrong as they put it in the front of the system vs on top... I was swapping other items and noticed this and just shook my head Of course it's run like this awhile before I got it a few months ago and first power on gave me noise where an air bubble was keeping stuff from going pegging my temps ... Pushed the system on the side and moves it a bit and it shifted to the radiator as the sound went away 👍 ...

[@imnotusingmyrealname4566]

TL;DR: Just buy an air-cooler lol.

[@GamersNexus]

That's not always the right answer. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYfdiXuLidZ4bac

[@imnotusingmyrealname4566]

@@GamersNexus Ahh I was looking for that.

[@connectronbuilds9960]

@@GamersNexus Of course it isn't...

[@whattf3924]

Your thumbnails are getting rediculous Steve, tone down the Linus twat tips clickbait vibe 👍

[@ericisbananaman]

Hardware Jesus demonstrates infinite patience with his flock.

[@gordo1701e]

Ok, I'm really late to the game on this one, but, I've gone through just about EVERY video I can find on this, both from here and Jay over at Jayz2Cents and NOBODY addresses the AIO where the pump is actually IN the rad? How the heck am I supposed to mount that one? Right now I have it mounted tube up top on the front of the case because I have to. The tubes aren't long enough to mount it tubes down as the GPU is in the way. Also that would then put the pump as the highest point of the loop which is what everybody has been complaining about for the last 10 months! I really wish there was a way to answer this directly but well here we are...

[@Azeos_s]

Yeah it's what I wonder too I always mounted my aio rad top but the last one I got have the pump in the rad so I wasn't sure if I had to put it front (or bottom but not sure with gpu in the way) because of that

[@lazypizzaguy]

08:27 was my excact question after the previous video so thank you so much for explaining that further.

[@h0h0h0h0]

"The computer's literally just a space heater. That's all it is." - Steve, 2020 Honestly, my old 2008 build definitely is just that at this point >_>

[@DrMoo91]

At one point in late 2011 I had two GTX 480s in SLI on a custom loop with an overclocked i7 930. I really don’t miss the heat output of that system!

[@klarahfenderson1374]

I had a core2quad 9650 and GTX275 that was like that. 95W CPU + 250W GPU...

[@doughoward8411]

"We reached a wider audience." is the 2020 version of the eye dee ten tee user error.

[@KeppyKep]

"I've learned something new, I need to go pester someone and belittle them for not knowing it." This is such a common attitude on the internet, and it's mind-boggling.

[@martinarscott3524]

I guess it's how you approach it, I see nothing wrong in passing on info that might help someone else avoid unnecessary expense

[@Speedy.V]

Short version :if your getting an AIO coller don't mount the reservoir below where the pump(cpu block) is located. Look for a case that has a top mount for larger AIO coolers if your getting anything bigger than a 120/140mm. Last but no least:do a custom loop without if you really want to have longer life span of your water cooling loop.

[@NicoDsSBCs]

Haha. You've said my line. "A PC is just a space heater". ARM is the way to go. Performance/Watt is more important than highest maximum performance.Cheers, NicoD

[@carwynvan]

"If it fits then how is it wrong?" I can technically fit a screwdriver in the wall outlet, like hell am I going to though

[@z0lid]

8:59 That was the nicest way of saying "thats really stupid and not how fluid works" ive ever heard :D

[@TechyBen]

"There are lots of... questions" KZbinrs watching a Gamers Nexus video on AIO coolers: "Where do babies come from?" "We hit a mainstream audience".

[@ejonesss]

i think the best way to install it is pump below radiator with tubes coming out the bottom of radiator like the 4th tile showed so any air would be trapped in the non connection of the radiator. in that position you would lose cooling power over time as the radiator is only half full but you wont have air getting into the pump

[@brookefore4618]

Seems like if you flip a front mount rad to have the lines at the bottom of the rad, you now have created TWO high points. One is the top of the rad, the other now is the pump. So some air may make it to the pump and not be able to migrate to the high point of the rad.

[@Leijon83]

Shortest summary: * Pump below highest point of radiator = good. * Pump above highest point or radiator = bad. * Pump Way below highest point of radiator = Best

[@MaxWorthAMillion]

Thank you so much for the follow up. This cleared up a lot of the user questions after yesterdays video. Really good work as always!

[@carsonc1272]

Summary: Air rises so orient your system so that the air collects at the top of the radiator and not at the pump....

[@user-kk4bq7mb8u]

More technically, it's because air is lighter than water that causes the air to be at the highest point in the loop.

[@jpthsd]

@@user-kk4bq7mb8u now when you said this ,,,I understand why he said front radiator needs to flip the loop at bottom because the air will be in the bottom of radiator while the loop inlet/outlet will fill with water without air!! Great comment ,,,I will try this weekend for my front mounted Corsair H80i v2

[@mr.cooldad3441]

@@jpthsd Are the tubes long enough with that model?

[@jpthsd]

@@mr.cooldad3441 yes long enough but it didn't work out very well,,,the noise of the pump indicated it didn't like the tube down in the front mount position as well as top position,,,my front mount has the tube up but lower than the pump and works very well. I had to remount the same orientation as I have for 3 years and works well! That's why my answer for this, "IT DEPENDS" !!

[@neth77]

@@jpthsd That's the air escaping the CPU block, give it an hour. You turned it back around and just filled it with air again.

[@DaidSS]

This was awesome! I thought the original video was very clear, but i am glad to get clarification about the loops coming out of the pump.. :D

[@ronochow]

8:28 it has to deal with pressure. I think a visible demonstration is easier but essentially, the highest part of the system/loop is where the air will tend to go as there is circulation here as well.

[@Scamperor]

"AHHHH! IT'S GONNA EXPLODE!" 💥💥💥 Died after reading that timestamp. I think we all panic like that sometime in our lives XD

[@TrebleSketch]

Thanks for the AIO video before, very helpful and great resource for reference in the future! :D (don’t think I’ve ever been this early before, haha.)

[@SirGambs]

CONCLUSION: The pump wont be hindered as long as the pump is not above the highest point of the radiator. Having tubes down on a radiator intake in front of case will solve any noise issues and potentially will solve some small life span issues with the system. The worst thing to do is have your pump higher than your radiator as even the companies that sell these cooling systems strongly advise against it. Please refer to the video for a more in depth explanation and pictures of orientation.

[@floydian022]

I think the misunderstanding/misinterpretation that a lot of people had was that they thought the pump needed to be lower than *the point where the tubes connect to the radiator*, and didn't realize that they were fine so long as the pump was lower than *whichever end of the radiator is facing up*.

[@nathanwhite617]

You did not compound your issue. This video cleared up all the uncertainties I had after the first one. Great job, great hair!

[@LazerDon271]

99% of advice online is that topmount should be exhaust, typically citing hot air rising. However I have conducted numerous tests with a very hot Intel processor and 360mm AIO and TOP MOUNT INTAKE with fans in PULL configuration, seems to be superior. Lower CPU temps. GPU Temps are totally fine. I keep front mount intake too.

[@Kirinketsu_]

11:30 this might had been clearer for people to understand if you had taken like 1 minute to show all of the correct ways vs incorrect ways the CLC should be mounted in a case at the start of the video, and not spaced apart throughout the video. What seems basic for someone can be rocket science to another.

[@digitalsutoraido]

This isn't Tic Tok, you have to be willing to listen to the information and make the appropriate adjustments (if needed/possible).

[@ram89572]

Yeah that's because your intent is to be the quick fix "do it this way. I am the authority and you should just do what I tell you without explanation" whereas the way the video was actually presented was in such a way for the viewer to be educated on why the incorrect ways are wrong and the correct ways are good. That's the difference between actually teaching and what it seems just about every other teacher wants to do which is just say "do it this way because I said so."

[@bromazepam781]

"She can't take much more, Capt'n! She's gonna BLOW!!!"

[@senjuro2731]

When you say Asetek targets 98% is that just for their own AIOs or all AIOs that use their pumps?

[@malphadour]

All the ones they make - that is their standard for all their OEM models.

[@_GntlStone_]

@@malphadour Do you know who they manufacture for just for future reference? I'd rather have 98% water than 90% to start with.

[@northwiebesick7136]

@@_GntlStone_ basically, if I remember correctly, anything Asetek, will have a pump and a rad, whereas if it isn't an Asetek model or licensed by Asetek, it'll be a pump-in-rad design... The reason they do that, is that they are forced to comply with Asetek patents and to avoid copyrights, they add the pump into the radiator, not that that's a good idea necessarily... I think Steve has taken apart a few pumps of that design, and he states something to the effect of the different design being because they want to bypass Asetek's patents... So, TL;DR anything with a separate pump and rad, at least in an AIO, will at least be licensed products of Asetek's designs, if I'm not mistaken

[@ram89572]

@@_GntlStone_ This list is some of the OEMs that use their coolers. Not necessarily all of them. www.asetek.com/gamingenthusiasts/diy-partners

[@BritneyStinson]

the air up there is a grossly underrated film 15:05

[@jpthsd]

Let just top mounted the radiator....I just installed Arctic Liquid Freezer 2 240mm, works just fine!!!! (yes I did have temptation to front mount but gave up,,,not worth it as I wanted cool air intake to cool other components NOT just only the radiator! :) (I have two radiator, one for CPU and one for GPU Evga Hybrid 1080 Ti, workign great for me!) For all people asked about the pump position vs the radiator/loop,,,,wherever you mount your radiator, keep in mind there are always little air bubbles in the radiator, the radiator mount position matters where the air bubbles resides...:) My 1080 ti's radiator , I mounted in the back of the case while the tubes pointed down ,,,mean the air bubble lives up in the radiator so water comes in and leaves radiator the air bubble still lives up top in the radiator , thus 1080 Ti's pump doesn't have air bubbles in the pump (prolong the life of the pump!) Same for CPU AIO :) just sharing my thoughts!

[@bensessions3753]

No tldr or newbie misunderstanding here, I watched the full first episode and the message I heard was if you have hoses up you'll be damaging your AIO. Maybe not an immediate failure but damaging nonetheless. Then you spent this entire video making condescending remarks about how could somebody have that takeaway when you were soooooo clear on the last video. You wouldn't need another half hour video if you were so clear in the first one. Surely the reason for the reaction doesn't lie solely with your viewers. I usually like your videos but hot dang.