The Most Hated Role in Gaming | Asmongold Reacts

Tank.
by ‪@Akshonesports‬ • The Most Hated Role in...
► Asmongold's Twitch: / zackrawrr
► Asmongold's Twitter: / asmongold
► Asmongold's 2nd YT Channel: / zackrawrr
► Asmongold's Sub-Reddit: / asmongold
Channel Editors: CatDany & Daily Dose of Asmongold
If you own the copyright of content showed in this video and would like it to be removed:
/ catdanyru

[@Seb_Falkor]

I love playing Tank and Healers in any games, but holy shit some people make it insufferable to be tanks and heals.

[@NotMikey437]

same.

[@kizzagaming6523]

Ran a 19 atal dazar today, none of the dps moved for the adds spawning except our ranged player, so it was constantly healing through 3 stacks of the dot. Died to spider typing trying to tell them to do the mechanic and move out. You know what the little fiend said to me? " Let's try again, this time do some actual healing " (I was on 168k hps). It's usually a pretty thankless job and people don't know what's going on lol.

[@MrRafagigapr]

i play games for 21 years and playing tank in dota 2 is the best feeling in any game i played , likelly because its a optional role , not every offlaner is a tank , but if you pick a tank in the right match it can be insane to feel immortal while annoying everyone who ignores you because you take so long to die , i think forcing people to be a tank everytime is the shit part

[@camedarus]

It's way worse as a tank imo. As a healer I just have fun when people fuck up and I really have to start healing for real. But as a tank, it's so annoying having to go pick up mobs because the dps aren't respecting the threat meter when engaging a pack and the hunter is multi shotting before I've even reached the mobs.

[@ryan--]

I wonder why 🤔

[@inan5445]

As a person who play supports & tanks in online games i think the most annoying thing is then a teammate who make tons of mistakes starts to blame you just because you play a supportive role and in their mind you should prevent any their mistake for them. Also: if you play tank/support/healer and your team loses/do not succeed - you are a bad tank/support/healer no matter what you do. Its a rule of modern online games it seems.

[@XxSpiffxX]

I feel this in Overwatch so much lol

[@_Trash_Goblin]

God, so much this. You can only do so much to keep the baby out of the fire - sometimes the baby needs to take responsibility for its own actions.

[@Slushcams]

overwatch supports in a nutshell: "dps is out of position, gets killed, blames the healer for not keeping them alive, then gets even more mad when the healer dies trying to save the out of position dps by calling you a feeder" Cycle repeats ad nauseum

[@xStoertebeker]

"because you play a supportive role and in their mind you should prevent any their mistake for them." - THAT, absolutly THAT is WHY the support role exist btw, well its true you shouldnt prevent EVERY mistake, but the more you can prevent or smoothing out as support the better you are as suppport

[@_Trash_Goblin]

@@xStoertebeker Unfortunately I cannot mind control my team into *not* diving face first into a wood chipper. You can't fix that.

[@Melurem]

I think DPS is the most popular role because it has the least responsibility. If the Healer/DPS dies the Tank gets the blame. If the Tank dies the Healer gets the blame. The DPS has to do something very stupid and easily avoidable to mess up. For Tanks/Healers there is a ton off stuff that can wrong that you have no control over, but you will 100% get blamed for it anyways, even if no one was at fault. One bad dungeon/party can very easily turn someone off Tanking/Healing.

[@dustincatherman4085]

imagine a long time ago a man standing in a dark candle lit area ,tries to make his invention the light bulb and someone walks in and says your so stupid why would you make that now i cant use these candles i love so much ,so this person instead stops making this light bulb so that this other person can use his candles ,would you like to be using a candle right now or a light bulb ,stop letting what other people think control your life ,if you wanna tank ,just tank,if you wanna heal ,just heal ,if you fuck up a group,or if someone blames you for a fuck up that is not your fault,1 ignore them ,2 argue with them and prove them wrong if thats your thing ,or move on to another group ,look it over figure out what you could do better and be better become better ,dont pack it up and give up because you messed up once ,you think everyone else was perfect the first time they started tanking or healing hell no,you know how many times i have messed up on all 3 roles ,so many too many to count and i have played this game for years WOW,you know what i do ,think about what went wrong ,take a mental note ,and run it back ,be better the next time not the best the first time. this give up mentality now days is so horrible ,do what you wanna do but put some effort into it ,if your literaly shit because you dont care and put no effort in ,then yeah your gonna get shit on by everyone for not trying ,the best thing you can do if you fuck up is acknoledge it ,its respectful and better then just ignoring it and not trying to improve ,shit earlier today i lightning bolted a group on my shaman on accident and pulled a group into a group we had just pulled and wiped are mythic +,first thing i did said im sorry i accidently lightning bolted a random mob sorry for wiping us all,everyone said np man its cool it happens. and im not saying your saying it would turn you off from those specs so this is directed to you ,this is just a general statement to those that would feel that way. do some research try alittle ,learn from your mistakes and dont just give up.

[@Dangerous1939]

And solo players usually prefer dps because they are better soloing stuff, questing, farming, etc. Dont rely on a group so much

[@kyoai]

@@dustincatherman4085 That's a really long sentence.

[@Lowlightt]

@@dustincatherman4085 So that guy made the lightbulb and then had the idea stolen and marketed by another dude who became rich off of it.

[@Lowlightt]

@@Dangerous1939 This is the sad fact. Tanks and healers generally need each other for regular play, dps don't if they can farm mobs fast enough. In addition because tanks are slow killers they level slower not in parties. DPS just speed through content solo.

[@sugarhighwhoo]

Asmon makes a really good point about healers. Healing difficulty in raids is heavily dependent on DPS not standing in mechanics. If you have an actual good group, you don't have to heal that much and can predict when you need to heal based on unavoidable damage that stays constant each fight.

[@Abysslz]

DPS still has little they have to do, yes I understand it’s a tanks job to tank but at the end of the day we are humans,DPS has so much to say for literally sitting there doing damage and nothing else, there are so many times a boss will do an aoe that’s completely avoidable but the dps will sit there die and blame both the healer and tanks for it happening, at that point it’s not worth being a tank or healer.

[@sitnamkrad]

I don't really agree with his stance on difficulty. But really it's more a question of what exactly is difficulty. While he is correct that as long as nobody dies, you have a good tank/healer. And DPS can always be faster. There's the other side of difficulty, which is what is required for failure. As DPS, you will rarely be responsible for failure, especially in earlier games. In more recent games/expansions, you have bosses with rage mechanics where you need to kill a boss within a certain amount of time or it's an instant wipe. Personally I hate these because they always feel so arbitrary, discourage good and methodical playing and encourage "stand in the fire for more DPS". In other words, if you suck as DPS, most of the time the run will merely be slower. While if you suck as healer/tank, you will fail.

[@Patrickf5087]

​@@sitnamkradDPS is about rotation and gear. That's it, and not standing in mechanics. A healer has to keep idiot DPS alive if they screw up with mechanics. Because if you don't have enough DPS alive it makes the fight that much longer when you OOM. A run with smart DPS and a smart Tank is super easy, outside of unavoidable damage by bosses, you can almost sleep though fights. However a bad tank that can't control agro, or DPS that takes unnecessary damage makes the game harder

[@ambrosiogiovanni6952]

That's exactly the problem. Most DPS players are dumb. So they will fixate in their rotations and forget about the fight mechanics. Those mechanics will make the Healer/Tank life difficult, because they will need to save them.

[@somethingsomething8511]

A DPS who doesn't follow mechanics just dies, they usually get killed before a heal could be cast on them. Most of the difficulty from healing is from trying to find who the hell is getting targeted by random unavoidable damage and prioritizing heals during raid damage. DPS have 1 target to pay attention to, heals have 25 targets to pay attention to. I flip from heals to DPS in raids and DPS is by far the easier role.

[@Balto678]

In my experience as a tank, I have found it to be the most fulfilling role. Until you step into those sweaty challenging levels, most players don't throw you under the bus for a mistake and most mistakes you can recover from. As long as you're keeping the boss's attention and you're not dying, A+.

[@guillaumerattaire290]

been playing a DK in lich king expansion as a blood dk tank...each time i see one of those sweaty dumbass, i done one single thing to, i like to says this :"ho? you want to go FASTER?....okay then, go first, im gonna regen my aoe and let you die cause you're not my problem anymore"....and like 50% of the time they rush with one or the 2 other dps...and the healer just stay put cause he is either out of mana or is smart enough to see that, if im not there as a tank to help them, he is gonna die too..and they always die, they may kill 1 group of ennemy along, but when facing a boss or forget that ennemy patrol well...they die and it's fun to watch, i wait for a sorry then goes back to tanking

[@tainicon4639]

@@guillaumerattaire290yeah I hate that so much… but I would always be smart about randoms. As a Paladin in wrath classic I knew that I could solo half of the pulls I did and just moved at a pace that kept the healers mana constantly at like 75% health. Granted this all required me having the dungeons memorized haha When I kept at this pace I would just ask the healer (good pace? Or faster?). This way if any dps were stupid the healer could save them and I was petty much fine. A few times the “group” wiped… but because I kept this pacing I could actually self heal through the packs. Which was very funny when the whole group was walking back and got back to me still fighting after like 5 minutes haha.

[@Oni-Joshu]

The most fun I've ever had tanking was playing fury prot in vanilla classic. Your basically dripping in threat gear and you just pump. Miss tht shyt. Blood dk in cata is a close second though.

[@PiotrSkladzien]

I was always having tons of fun playing DK in... TESO.

[@claytonfenton3207]

In Neverwinter, almost all the extra "challenge" dungeons make it so you can't use potions or have a heal over time, which removes about 50% of what a tank needs for sustainability, as most healers and DPS are still subpar.

[@lessthan3vi28]

Tanking: When they die, everyone knows and shit's gonna hit the fan Healers: When they die, rest of the group gonna be feeling it, but can still be managable. DPS: When they die, aint no one even gonna notice/care unless you hit some sort of enrage.

[@blakeduckly2875]

What I've noticed bouncing between all 3: DPS: When they make a mistake, nobody will notice/they get credit for kills. Healer: When they make a mistake, only tanks or entitled DPS will notice/they get credit as the most valued support role. Tank: When they make a mistake, everybody notices/they aren't recognized by anybody except healers.

[@d.optional3381]

Good dps love a decent tank

[@queenbrightwingthe3890]

Just too many entilted dps mains these days.

[@Redd_Nebula]

​@@queenbrightwingthe3890this is the biggest thing. Entitled dps players blaming other people for their deaths. You get toxic players being tanks and healers sure...but nowhere near as common as toxic dps players

[@KillerBee300]

The healers knows when the dps make mistakes

[@royceblack6752]

I disagree about being credited as a healer/support. This is just wrong. It used to be true but nowadays everybody is expecting a way higher level of skill from their supports/healers than what they're playing on. They don't consider that healers/supports are gonna make the same amount of mistakes as DPS do. And I also experienced way more praise for tanks than for supports/healers

[@aero4856]

The criteria for deciding "who is a good tank/healer/dps" is different. As you said, tank and healer are binary, but thats because their roles are the most important since they're the ones that lead to a clear or a wipe. Having a bad DPS is still salvageable. Having a bad tank or healer is generally not salvageable.

[@leemay3097]

Yup, which is why they are always being blamed regardless of how badly your DPS do in any giving circumstances(unless it's Lost ark or similar with instant team wipe). I'm 95% of the time a healer class because no one likes to play the babysitter micro managing my cooldowns, aoe heals, healing over time, instant heal, revives, debuffs/cleanse, my mana, avoiding over-healing for boss aggro, while dodging AOE attacks. Then, whenever I get tired/bored of it I make a DPS class only to find out how easily it is just to learn the optimal combo casually or just watch videos of bosses's attack pattern. Basically, a DPS class is so simple people actually just make a script for bots and you couldn't tell the difference unless the game has intricate mechanics.

[@koo1770]

The thing is as a tank you just need knowledge of dungeon/encounter to be seen as good. If u suck at mitigation people wont notice (unless ur super trash) because you cant track it on a meter, the healer will get blame or dps. Healing can be tracked but its not as a reliable indicator of performance as checking dps. Also like asmon said, dps performance is compared against the best of the best (parsing) Tanks only get blame when they fail mechanics of a fight, not if they dont use their buttons right.

[@Bezijenkins]

and that is why baldy only plays a dps.

[@MrBeetsGaming]

@@koo1770 Not really true, you can know the mechanics of a fight like the back of your hand and still do poorly... If all you needed was knowledge of the encounter/dungeon that implies someone who has never tanked before could hop on someone elses character and do it no problem.

[@MrBeetsGaming]

Completely depends on what you're doing... Dungeons with a bad tank are very doable if the rest of the group is good and/or OP unless it's one with fights that are very dependent on the tank being good

[@Aelethil]

I've been a tank for almost 20 years now. There are three rules 1. Know everything 2. Everything is your fault 3. Protect your healer

[@LuisGustavoBD]

As a main healer/support: thank you for your years of service :P

[@jaytrox4599]

I thought this will turn into a long rant list but as a fellow tank... ALWAYS protect your healer! I live by this rule even as dps

[@ValeRay2]

Tanks are unsung heroes in video gaming Asmongold:"NO, because in wow-" Is basically the whole video

[@TheMatthardyv1]

I like his videos, their very fun. Sometimes it feels like that in some of his videos

[@reiryghts639]

In a lot of videos not few

[@MrShadowtini]

As a Tank myself, I think the the main reason new players dont want to play Tank is, you have so much more responsibility than the others. You are the driver of the car and the others just hop on in and enjoy the ride without much preparation. You however have to know the hole dungeon/raid and have the courage to lead the group. For me, I loved tanking mythic raids with my tank buddy and in M+ I just enjoy leading the group through the dungeon.

[@shibomi1]

Something that Asmon said a little later in the stream was that new players should play DPS first to learn the mechanics of the Raid. Then, they could choose whether or not they want to level up a tank

[@Kasper0822]

True.. As a tank i used to lead the party, pick up mobs while the damage dealers just clicked the assist button and maybe some skills if they got bored. Only the healers did some real work.

[@boblounar]

The thing with tanking is you have to know all abilities of the mobs AND know your mate's class AND know what to do with your CD and possibility for kit the mob to not die with the pull you are in and the next ! Thats why new tank are bad, they just know what the mob they have in front will do. But when you play tank good, your DPS AND the healer will tell you. And thats feel nice. But for me, play tank is only really fun in M+. In raid is not fun its boring. (as i say,as a super casu DH tank, its my just my pov)

[@kizzagaming6523]

I always laugh, people are so terrified of tanking and it's honestly easier than DPS'ing, lol. Healer is the worst job as you go higher and higher as it has the most buttons with the most stress and need to be monitoring everything. Definitely think you're right that people are scared of the responsibility of leading people, Personally absolutely love tanking especially on pally because the skill ceiling is higher for your utility even though holding threat and picking adds up is mindless.

[@dustincatherman4085]

@@shibomi1 i have played wow for a long time ,and i do enjoy tanking but anytime new content comes out that im not 100% confident in knowing the mechanincs or the best route i take my dps classes through the content until i have seen it and im confident in my ability to lead the group and tank it ,then i will tank it ,i know not everyon has this luxury someone has to be the one to take the lead until its figured out ,i just prefer to not do that ,i think people who dislike tnaking do this the opposite way they just say im gonna try tank today. and they do it so fucked up because they have no prior knowledge of the dungeon alone or content at all and wanna try tanking ,and then say its tanking that sucks ,one of the biggest reasons i like tanking is because of what was said in this video good tanks are hard to come by. so often doing like mythic + ill see a tank pulling 1 mob at a time like its classic wow all over again.

[@tyfighter015]

I really enjoy playing heals in MMO's for one big reason. No fight is ever the same no matter how many times you do it. Sure the mechanics are the same, but the other factor (your allies) have the potential of making the fight far more exciting or frustrating. I really enjoy that challenge. Therefore, the game doesn't get stale as fast which is fun

[@phachaves]

Exactly! Not to mention the fact that dps’s are usually just following the same strict rotation over and over again to the point where it’s not only repetitive but your basically playing a single player game with other player doing their own thing in the background. Meanwhile healers not only get the freedom to pick and choose which ability they think is more appropriate for a given situation, but when your healing you HAVE to keep the entire party in mind at all times. So basically healing feels a lot more strategic, makes you feel like a part of a team, and it even gives you more “freedom of expression” to play using your own style. But to be fair, if everyone else in the party is playing perfectly, healing can get quite boring since all you do is spam dps abilities.

[@BullDogBreed75]

Agree 100%. I exclusively played healer during my time in WoW and no two runs were ever the same, as the team was always the deciding factor on difficulty/ excitement. You know within the first pull if it's going to be a run you are going to have to work your ass off or just relax and join the dps. That said I was not a raider, 5-mans only and all of them pretty much as randoms. It never got boring for me because of the team variables, I even went so far as to have multiple alts xp locked at certain levels so I could "shepherd" new tanks through various dungeons to help them learn/ gain player experience in a more "friendly" environment as I had witnessed the abuse tanks got even in RFC, when it was obvious they were new players going for their first run....put me off ever trying to be a tank if I'm honest.

[@asdem5844]

Oh then you'll love ow2

[@DA_4568]

Once BC was released, I rolled ally shaman and never looked back. Not only were the healer dynamics in place as the other commenters have described, but shaman was a very control-oriented class. Tracking the enemy mobs to anticipate enemy spells to either shock or ground their spells, running in to drop slowing totem to help kite when u know ur tank is losing aggro, tracking the mob that you frogged, and omg those moments when the taunting totem would actually save ur stupid mage from that last hit before the mob dies. Shaman was so fking fun.

[@ThahnG413]

As someone who played tank a lot in Overwatch, I can say that it was both the most fun role and the least fun. When you have a decent team that follows up with you and the game balance is good, it feels great. When the game balance is poor, your hp gets melted too quickly and there's almost nothing you can do.

[@MrBreakdownx]

Had I guy yesterday who spent the whole game trying to counter pick me.

[@Blacky_ljb1]

When asmon said he thought tanks were popular in overwatch I almost spit out my water 😂 Tank in ow is just smacking your head against a wall hoping not to get counter picked to oblivion

[@alalalal5952]

@@Blacky_ljb1 Yup! Add one tank in the party and from 5-15 min queue you go to intant-1 min queue! Ha and without using priority token!

[@somethingsomething8511]

As someone whos done all 3 roles, DPS is definitely the easiest. It requires the least amount of situational awareness and reactivity since you only have to care about yourself and the mob you're attacking. Healers have to be constantly ready to drop heals onto 1 of 25 people randomly getting nuked down and tanks have to make sure each mob is held onto them.

[@lightworker2956]

I agree. Everyone has to do mechanics, and on top of that dps just pretty much do their rotation and that's it, and their rotation is pretty much the same every time. Whereas tanks need to know when to press their big defensive buttons, manage the fight, hold aggro, have the boss in the right spot and facing the right way, etc. And on top of that, at top-tier play tanks and healers ALSO need to maximize their dps so long as that doesn't interfere with other duties. Though if you're playing WoW with damage meters, then if you're an average tank or healer your guild spot is probably secure (not a lot of competition), whereas if you're an average dps you might get booted one day in favor of a better dps player.

[@yukkimura]

I love how Lineage 2 did certain tanks, some had a stacking system where after certain amount of hits taken they could pop a self/party buff that would basically turn them into a DPS and allow them to life drain but reduce healing received by like 80%, that made them viable in a solo setting as well as being desired in general party play (for the steroid party buff) even if said content didn't require a tank in particular.

[@EckoUntitl]

THAT game has the best tanking and not Lost Ark,Gunlancer is a dps not a tank,he cant even aggro raid bosses. Lineage 2 aside all it's flaws is still to this day my most favorite mmorpg,lets see if Throne and Liberty scratches that itch.

[@ProffessorDrPatrick]

Tank might not be the hardest but whenever I'm playing tank I feel the most stressed out because the success if the raid is entirely in your hands and your duty is to be the most tryhard and knowledgeable player in the room. Sure the execution is easy but by comparison DPS is a cakewalk. You just hit whatever the tank is tanking until it's dead.

[@pancakerzzz]

I think this is why I find DPS to be the most boring. You just hit your buttons and don't get hit yourself. but as a tank/healer you need to have an overall awareness of what's going on all around you, and have control over the battlefield in a meaningful way.

[@MFTomp09]

As a blood dk main and raid tank for my guild.. I’m the least tryhard we have in the raid team.. we joke that I can just ignore mechanics because I just deathstrike through all damage. And they’re not entirely wrong. I can mess up so badly and still come out fine in the end. As long as my boss positioning is reasonably manageable for the rest of the raid, it’s all good. It’s the same in dungeons.. I take forever to learn mechanics because I can just stand in fire and out heal it

[@romanjohnson75]

@@pancakerzzzyou find dps to be boring cause you’re turning off your brain and not being aware of the encounter and are dead

[@ProffessorDrPatrick]

@@MFTomp09 Might be the case, idk I only play Vanilla. At 60 as a tank the raid's success is imo entirely in your hands.

[@jacobtridef48]

Tank in many MMO's have a kind of low skill floor(as long as you know the content a bit), but some of the highest skill ceilings. for example Gunbreaker in ffxiv for ultimates/savages is actually one of the sweatiest jobs in the entire game, if you are actually trying to parse high at all.

[@BragginRitesTV]

Tank has responsibilty to keep the pace and needs the most knowledge. A healer, however, has the unfortunate responsibility of saving players who make mistakes, and players make many mistakes.

[@JesiAsh]

Technically... not everyone have to be saved

[@XenosImplyer]

The tank manages the battlefield, the healer manages the party and the DPS manages its ego.

[@fabiusque4266]

Healers also have the responsibility to keep the tank alive, whether he is a good one or not. And a bad tank makes you struggle, a lot, because all of them think they are invincible and never at fault.

[@DoylePTB]

Tanking: Easiest to execute, requires the most pre-knowledge of the content. 1 Fail is a wipe or deplete. Healing: Scales in difficulty based on how shit your group is. DPS: Easiest role to carry. You are compared to others in the run, but others also do your job for you if you suck.

[@colonelfalseflag1219]

There would be a lot more tanks if people would just STFU and stop blaming them for everything (even if its the tank's fault). Its all about respect.

[@ChosenPlaysYT]

I play every hero on Overwatch. Tank is the most frustrating because your performance is the most dependent on other people. Making space and doing your job is just feeding if your healers and DPS aren’t good enough to capitalize on having space. So you either look good or noob based on your teammates.

[@TheBecke1983]

I have played all 3 roles over the years, but got more serious in WoD and onwards. I play healer mostly now because it has the most challenge, I play tank when I want to still have a challenge but relax a bit more, I play DPS when I want no stress and just do the raid. DPS has always been the easiest role in raids and m+ for me.

[@Thugblader92]

Back in 2005 I played a warrior tank leading raids for both BWL and AQ20/40, and nobody 'dared' to be sassy because the status of a tank was comparable to the guild leader. In 2008 TBC when raid sizes started to shrink from 40-man, that coercion started to diminish. I remember tanking Kara enough times to become exalted 10 times over. Gruul? Every week for years. TK & SSC? People finally started to become annoying. By the time Black Temple was on the agenda, every issue that wasn't a healers fault, was the tanks fault. By then I simply stopped playing my warrior as it wasn't worth the trouble. I liked leading raids though, so I swapped to mage and led raids from a DPS perspective instead. I quit in Cata as the Death Wing fight was just too bloody obnoxious for everyone involved. That tanks are getting shit is a question of comfort really. A good tank, as the video mentions, is practically invisible - all things go comfortably, mobs are where they should be, bosses can be attacked freely, tactics are followed like an oiled machine. A bad tank though? "How hard is it too Sunder Armor? How hard is it to just STAND there and hit taunt on cooldown? Bloody useless, trash tanks!" All a tank needs is two things; Positioning and Timing. Have it? Good tank, nobody cares. Don't have it? Bad tank, useless trash!

[@petefrancisco3267]

In shaiya (i think that was 2008), a warrior is from the dark side! So everyone has a character on both factions!! The dark side looks cool!! Lets play again without the old ones!! 😁😁😁

[@josephritchhart998]

I've gotten complements as a tank. On one specific occasion, the healer told me I was the best tank he'd seen all playthrough(lvl 55). I find tanking can be very rewarding. I never felt like an invisible cog that either works or doesn't.

[@nerfedmann]

A tank is a bridge.. you aren't amazed when it works. Now imagine if it stopped working when you're in it

[@Abysslz]

The first comment people should respect the tank and not give them any flac, because you need a tank /healer, at this point more so than a DPS

[@Brotection_]

I actually enjoy tanking and healing the most since it's reactive and requires different solutions for different situations. It's an adaptive play style. As a result of mostly playing these two roles I've developed thick skin to overly harsh criticism, while still accepting valid feedback from people I play with. But I can understand the pressure probably gets to be too much for most people so they just opt for DPS, not to mention big numbers = easy dopamine hits in a much more black and white way.

[@jeremymullens7167]

I like playing tanks and healers because I hate being dps with bad ones. Bad support(tanks and healers) cause team wipes. It also hurts because I see a tank or healer do a bad job. I do think things depend on the game and level of play though. I hardly play online at a high level. I did like playing druid in classic wow while leveling because I could flex rolls. Once had a shaman that didn’t want to heal and said he could tank. We ended up swapping roles because he couldn’t keep Aggro. I’ve jumped out of a druid dps roll to heal or protect the healer from Aggro. It’s just kinda sad that the flexibility isn’t supported or useful later on.

[@parko246]

I really enjoyed the cool light armour tank that was in SWTOR. Where you relied to dodge and shield generators instead of heavy armour. Was a great concept that I think needs to be implemented in other games.

[@MorrowProduction]

Anarchy Online had some off-tanking classes like this as well. Martial Artist class was able to dodge tank quite well, but the game was so unique with its implant systems and Attribute/Skill point system you could actually make a SUPER TANKY MMA and tank it like an Enforcer. Then you had Fixer tanks who literally just wore Grid Armor that made physical attacks miss like 95% of the time depending on what quality of suit you had. (Generally if you where a fixer with a suite it was a high quality because fixer toons where people who had deep pockets lol.) There was also Metaphysicist class who could tank using his 3 pet system, CC ball, Healing Ball, and Demon tank. Keepers where a new kind of DPS style tank that was just a better enforcer in my opinion (at least for pvp anyways). They had the same HP, better armor/sheilds and way more DPS. Adventurers could tank in Cat Mode using HP implants as well as dodge bonus being in cat form or dragon form. Agent tanks using the miniature form and the shroud of tourin cloak or using Enforcer engrams through agent spells to tank... Engineers could tank with their 158 white scytheclaw bots if you twinked it low enough, never saw raids done with bots tanking though. I think AO had such a great community because it was a game with insane item/stat/twinking depth. You could have a level 90 Agent beat a 220 soldier, or a 150 enforcer destroy anyone he felt like it because you twinked on the best 2handed weapon in the game for him to use lol.

[@007whiterussian2]

same, i enjoy the class identies in swtor where some classes can perform jobs in different ways like Mercs having tons of defense and self healing which frees up heals for the more squishy dps classes and stuff

[@BunnyHoppin-]

I played tank stalker in wild star. A cross between health regain skills, high aggro generating attacks, and most importantly- stealth. Can run a raid then go be a chad flag carrier/kill securer in 50v50 pvp matches with the same build and gear.

[@AndrewTheFrank]

The most hated role in gaming is anything that isn't DPS. It doesn't matter how important the other roles are or how much they might carry others because at the end of the day the DPS feels like the hero. Most people want to feel like a hero.

[@Pilvenuga]

in what content do DPS get to feel the hero, though? in their headspace, of course. dps are just number pushers, they are the extras in a movie. the tank is always the main character, the healer their sidekick and the dps are the hired goons

[@bennify1]

@@Pilvenuga haha thats pretty funny i like how you called dps hired goons

[@AndrewTheFrank]

@@Pilvenuga in their head is all that matters. You might want to see it as tank is the main character but I dont think most see it that way. People like viewing themselves as the main character. They also like playing dps far more often, in just about every game without exception, than any other roll.

[@Nephale]

@@Pilvenuga Action rpgs without tanks exist and good players can play without healers too. Passive mitigation is inferior when the game has active defences like dodges, parries or blocks which require inputs instead of a passive stat.

[@Pilvenuga]

@@Nephale yes, and in those games there are no role classes, there are only players

[@jacobtridef48]

Worst thing about tank is that its a support, so group mistakes get blamed on you, and the healer, even when it wasnt a support's fault at all. and also in high-tier fights, they give tanks a lot of extra responsibility in many MMO's, yet like 90% of DPS players seem to think tanking is "braindead" even though they don't play it in anything other than normal/easy tier content. Tbh in endgame/high tier content i actually think playing DPS is kind of easier mechanically (not rotationally though). usually less group responsibility/role mechanics.

[@joeywang4638]

I think Asmon's opinion on Tank's difficulty is generally not true when it comes to team based PvP games. Since you can't effectively aggro enemy players without decent dps or crowd control, and these 2 aspects can easily be imbalanced, either not effective to the point your team gets sweeped because you're not killing nor healing enough or you're so strong that the meta becomes GOAT like

[@Sindrella.]

He’s full of bad takes it’s pretty insane given how much he plays

[@brain_tonic]

In LoL tanks are evergreen, but because it’s pvp the tanks actually do good damage on top of being tanky and having a lot of CC. Healers are the optional role, you can just have tank or utility supports that don’t heal or shield allies.

[@evangelosvasiliades1204]

You are right that he is 100% talking from a WoW experience. But in turn you are very much so talking from a OW perspective. In LoL for example tanks are very much so not hard (saying this as a tank enjoyer)

[@joeywang4638]

@@evangelosvasiliades1204 It's funny cuz I havn't even played OW

[@daydreamdirty]

If anyone is curious, it’s incredibly fun to play as a “Tank Assassin” in Dark Souls 3 where you equip heavy gear to defend and help the newer players when they’re in a fight and then sneaking ahead to clear the guys you can take out with one backstab or parry

[@patrickmacvane5725]

As someone who healed all the way through naxx classic. The amount of time you have to put into being a tank definitely seemed like a huge investment and seemed pretty daunting especially in the raids. I’m gonna be tanking hard core so wish me luck lol

[@bryanm498]

Some of my best memories of multiplayer games (a type of game I don't play much) are supporting the team until victory. Not exactly a role-playing game, but I remember a match in Battlefield 1 where I was practically the only doctor reviving people on the front lines and turned a practically lost Grand Operations game into victory. Running from one side to the other amidst the shouting, explosions everywhere, shots going everywhere and my squad celebrating. One of the most immersive games and one of the most immersive match in my gaming history.

[@ratzelbarreto2070]

Healers are the true unsung heroes of any game ever.

[@axlespelledwrong]

Medic was so fun to play in BF1. If you were sneaky and used your tools right you could keep choke points held up indefinitely and players really appreciated it. They also had the best arsenal of guns overall in my opinion. Not only could you be the backbone of your team in most game modes, being able to pick people off with the RSC in a few shots or storming a trench with barrages from the Federov was so damn satisfying.

[@JemuzuDatsWho]

I love tanking personally, once you get out of the "ahhh the responsibility!" headspace it just becomes an easier DPS rotation with fun bonus situational buttons for defense and such! Plus, you get the satisfaction of tanking the way YOU would want others to have tanked whenever you played a DPS lol edit: this is my experience playing *extremely casually*, not at all speaking to any actually difficult content lol

[@MrRafagigapr]

also while you have lower dps you can ignore lots of weaker attacks that other classes lose time dodging so you can dps the whole time , this applies even better in games in which the tank just mostly disables enemies and people ignore you due to the fact you take so long to kill , and as a tank you can just control the most dangerous enemies

[@toji6476]

@@MrRafagigaprtrue whenever i fuck up a mechanic i just laugh it off cause i can eat it

[@joelmcknight9995]

@@MrRafagigaprALSO, stuff like blood dk actually had a decent aoe in their rotation and could always put out middling dps. Was regularly out-dpsing the dps while leveling

[@boing5106]

Yes i also liked playing casually as a tank until i became quite good at it and wasn't able to progress because of my incompetent teammates cus as a tank no matter how good you play if the others don't do thier part you cannot do anything. You can't deal damage you are entirely reliant on the teammates but then again when i try playing other roles I can't bear the amount of trashy tank players i get

[@dayne0987654321]

In my experience, a good tank is extremely noticeable and get hella praise, but a bad tank gets equal and opposite hate

[@JesiAsh]

Real tank dont give a fuck because he will have next queue in 1min and any angry boy is getting a vote kick.

[@nahthravan]

but to become a good tank you have to practice and invest time in it, which is hard when you get flamed for (little) mistakes

[@fabiusque4266]

Agree, but tas a healer, the issue most of the time is that a good tank will know hes good while a bad tank will also think hes good and play like he is a world first raider. Its insane how much of a difference this makes in m+/raids. I've had runs where I was struggling so hard that I thought it has to be my fault and literally the next run I got a tank that knows what hes doing and it felt like I could actually do dps on top of healin.

[@alexis1156]

Yea, saying that good tanks don't get any credit is just bad tank propaganda. A good tank is a night and day difference. And it's certainly noticeable, and noticed by people.

[@MC-nt7jz]

only took me one day to become a great tank in classic wow, its ez

[@sorenlampe951]

in wow the reason is really responsiblity. tanking a raid is scary. if you fuck up as dps, the kill just takes a bit longer - if you fuck up as tank, the whole raid wipes.

[@jovanstojanoski3274]

2:59 so true

[@asitallfallsdown5914]

A proper tank shouldn't just be hard to kill, but also provide a compelling reason why the enemy should focus on them. Such as having a slow build up pocket nuke or debilitating effects, or hard to ignore support effects that don't tread too much on the healer or other support branches.

[@hado33_]

LOL what

[@FaceD0wnDagon]

I've thought this for a while, and a few games here and there have agreed. Tanking is better if you design it for PvP first, and PvE second. The Warhammer MMO did a decent job of this, with the backward-facing mitigation cone, for just one example. "Initiator" tanks are another functional type: they're tanky because they want to get in and deploy a big CC effect without dying, which lets everyone else get into position and do their own thing, giving your team a huge momentum advantage. Real players don't have aggro mechanics, and competitive players will always build to balance their survivability with their utility for maximum effectiveness.

[@Kxadd]

The reason enemies focus on me as a tank is becasue I keep insulting their family members, including their pets, so they have a personal conflict with me and try to end me first.

[@Kasper0822]

I think Lineage 2 did tanks right. It was fun to play since they had pets and with some skill and item preparation they could go hard on damage dealing too. The only thing that sucked about them was fighting them and getting hate when the boss just doesn't catch aggro and skills are on refresh.

[@MATCHLESS789]

Honestly, in PvE L2 tanks never felt like tanks. They felt more like a support character with taunt which didn't really work. In PvP though, now that felt like a TANK.

[@xxoticgaming]

> "Tanks" > Show clip of Garen AINTNOWAY

[@keinen.0824]

What? Why? he's a tank atleast used to be.

[@xxoticgaming]

@@keinen.0824 Garen hasnt been played tank for dare I say almost a decade already. At best he's played as a split pushing bruiser that suck up the farm of the entire map and split push. At worst he's played as a full glasscannon assassin with crit. In fact, tanking itemization on him is probably the worst build you can get on Garen. And With tank item he fucking sucks ass at tanking. No CC, no aoe crowd control, no reason to target him in fight if he does no damage. If you look at a champ to make a tank, even Diana make more sense than Garen. She is sticky and can get to the backline reliably. She has some damage and scaling built into her kit. She has an Ult that provide some CC and damage. If you look at a champ designed to be a tank, Ornn is the carry traditional tank with massive AoEs and Ccs. Leona has like 3 fucking seperate CCs in her kit and can stick to whoever she wants and be unkillable.

[@JuanCarlos-qr9gd]

When i got into wow i began as a healer, my friend (who already played wow for a long time) played as a tank, at first i didn't have to heal that much, but as time passed, my friend started pulling more and more enemies, so i had to be really careful to not let him die, it was a challenge for a begginer like me, but it was amazing how we would tell us our cooldowns so he would know how much he could pull, and i began to understand the role more, having to also heal the dps from time to time cause they would take some damage.

[@a_rock_or_something]

A good tank knows he's a shield. A bad tank thinks he's a sword.

[@DW-lx9wt]

usually i enjoy asmons takes as they are correct a lot of the time. i played all three roles in my time playing wow and dps is by far the easiest and least stressful. dont stand in things and know your rotation. tanking is more knowing the encounter and game knowledge. heal is more reactive and you have to have quick responses. it depends on the content youre doing whose role is hardest. 5 man its usually harder for healers, as theres only one. raids its tanks as now timing is everything, weak aura type things lessened this a bit, but, not in proper classic and holding threat is harder than most thought. it was easy for dps to surpass you on threat if you werent top of your game, all while surviving. the game made it easier to hold threat as time went on because of this. asmon is speaking here from a later perspective of the game when they dumbed tanking down. dps couldnt shine without a good tank and a healers job was only lessened slightly if the rest of the team knew what they were doing. mana management, which they also dumbed down later, was a massive issue for healers. this was also exasperated by dumb dps standing in stuff. its like hes forgot there was 39 people to keep alive, minus yourself. yes, there was group assignments, but, what if another healer went oom or died. this is one of the worst takes by asmon yet.

[@Darkstar614]

Yeah, spot on. I usually like all Asmon’s takes but I think he needs to think about this a bit more. This video was illuminating the SOCIAL pressure that comes with tanking, and he just glossed over it. Tanking becomes infinitely easier when you have a dedicated group that trusts you or simps for you (like a streamer does). So that social pressure is COMPLETELY gone. “Being compared to the highest dps player in that encounter is what makes it hard”. Yeah… in like the top 5% difficulty content meant for hardcore players. The guy is talking about the general population. I would love to see Asmon take a more serious look at this topic and slow down. Not rush a 15 minute content video out.

[@jacobtridef48]

yeah hes objectively wrong in this vid. hes taking all his tank opinions from WOW and applying them to all other games. which tanking is actually one of the more stressful/hard jobs in a handful of games.

[@AzureGreatheart]

As someone who mains DRK in FFXIV, and couldn’t get into tanking in WoW when I tried it later, the difficulty of playing tanks in PvE games is *heavily* reliant on how much the game emphasizes having to go out of your way to maintain aggro: if you’re having to actively try to keep the boss on you or closely watch the aggro things have, it’s going to be *significantly* harder than if you can just focus entirely on the boss and mechanics. FFXIV does the later, WoW does the former. Having effective ways of maintaining aggro across a group is also extremely important for this, with FFXIV giving AoE rotations (with no damage reduction for hitting large groups) to tanks, and WoW giving Vengence Demon Hunter’s Glaive Toss a cooldown, and pretty small target caps to both that and their other main souce of AoE, Soul Cleave. I’d rather a tanking class be harder than others because it has a higher skill ceiling, not because the devs simply neglected to give it a proper AoE toolkit. Also, “DPS are the hardest role” is one of the worst takes on gaming difficulty I’ve ever heard. The whole take starting at 14:34 is complete garbage, actually, for the reasons stated above, in addition to the responsibility of it, but the DPS one is *especially* bad. The take is an argument against parsers, except it’s _somehow_ intended to means DPS is the hardest, when that’s *just* other players being obnoxious. Just do your rotation right, and don’t stand in the fire, and unless there’s a specific mechanic you end up needing to take care of, you’ll be fine.

[@ishae3198]

The "other players being obnoxious" is a great take on class difficulty because what else is there to base failure on? Especially in your own preferred design like FFXIV, where a tank can fall asleep on their keyboard and still maintain boss aggro - so the only measure anyone has of anything they do is their DPS.

[@Filthy_Casual5]

Goated take. I've played FFXIV and am currently tanking WOTLK Classic in a HC guild and you summed it up perfectly IMO. Saying DPS is the hardest role is false when it comes to WOW imo.

[@AzureGreatheart]

@@ishae3198 Even disregarding aggro, the tanks have to deal with being the focus of the boss' attacks, and healers have to keep the party alive, while the DPS have to do fewer mechanics, and focus on doing damage. Even in terms of other players being toxic, healers and tanks get it worse: if anything screws up, the healers and/or tanks get the blame. That is such a well known phenomenon that _it's used as a minor story element is FFXIV._ Meanwhile, DPS getting the brunt of toxicity is largely relegated to games where parsers are widely used (mainly WoW, with FFXIV going having a "don't ask don't tell" policy on add-ons likely _because_ some people are obnoxious about them), or failing a mechanic in a way that also takes out other raid members. As for what to judge failure on, it's not necessarily obvious a DPS has done poorly unless it gets themself or the party killed, while it can be *really* obvious when the tank or healer fails.

[@ishae3198]

@@AzureGreatheart I suppose it really depends on what kind of content we're talking about. If it's in leveling dungeons or whatever, then yeah, no one really knows or cares what the DPS is doing. But the story's a lot different when you start talking about endgame raiding.

[@SaintSchield]

Gotta agree. If healer and tank can be oversimplified to binary, then so can DPS. Did you do enough damage to beat enrage or not?

[@denzelherrman]

I was a tank in ESO and i was flabbergasted when i saw the dps queue length like i always waited like 30 seconds dps have to wait for like 10 minutes lmao

[@burrzie8446]

ikr? I had to wait for an hour one time when queuing up as a DPS, but as a Tank I don't even need to wait for a minute

[@denzelherrman]

@@burrzie8446 yea i guess not much people play tank bc its kinda boring in ESO except when you have a really good team

[@doczoid-]

Tanking in the group finder is miserable. Even on the random vet finder, you frequently get newer and lower DPS players to aren't ready for the content, or selfish pvp players who take 45 minutes to clear the dungeon. I'm sure any tank who has landed vet Scalecaller Peak as a random understands this 😂

[@CabreraAparicio-xm1gs]

Whenever I q in tank, I always get the shit dps that barely does over 50k damage and not position in front of the healer and behind the tank. I wouldn't mind waiting a while more to avoid that.

[@greylatern]

When I play multiplayer games I play the 4th role. Support and utility. Which is a multiplier for the rest of the group. As well as the possibility to step in into other roles temporarily. Hense why I play Druid. Usually end up saving my group multiple times and Drastically increasing group speed and efficience.

[@AIIXIII0]

Hated Tanks in Moba. Almost always the 1st to leave. Unnecessarily baiting opponent. Invade at unfortunate timings. And still have the audacity to cry "where team?"

[@Lelouch-Vi-Britannia-]

Ngl jungler is harder than tank role for me .tank will be good only when team is good.

[@burner_boi]

I just started tanking for the first time the knowledge you need to know feels more vast with routes etc making up for % in mythic plus, adjusting for extra packs pulled, its been a lot of anxiety but i understand that goes away the more and more you tank this will be my first time trying to achieve KSM instead of dps. looking forward to the ups and downs of this new journey and hope to be competent.

[@Lv6_Esper]

At the end of the day every role has their own responsibilities and will call out on those people not performing properly, although dps not as much. From what i see the dps has it easier since their measure of usefulness is separated from the tanks+healers. I've always been one to play around with all 3 roles to get a better understanding of how they operate in a specific game. Edit: I love tanking in league, new world, and albion the most

[@BrutusMaximusAurelius]

I love tanking. You always get into groups, no queues, you decide the pace. And I just love when we have a smooth run. I've been a tank since wrath, always on my DK and I'm pretty comfortable with it.

[@rhydondaddy]

But as a tank, you hold the ability to fuck everyone's day whenever you want.

[@leoncoben6983]

I guess it's because I've only ever played Tanks in League of Legends and never played a game like WoW ever but I've always loved being a Tank. The concept of taking a fuck ton of damage and never dying has it's obvious appeals and we you play Tanks that excel at either being a wall in front of your squishies or someone with offensive cc designed to pinpoint a target and have everyone dogpile on is super fun. Champs like Ornn and Sion fulfill both of these concepts and when you're playing them it's awesome when the team properly positions around you and you effective halt the enemies' advance because they can't get past you without losing half their health. It's fun and it's super fun when you're trying to get around the enemy tank because effectively, it forces you to think better on how you engage the enemy team. Wherever the tank is, that's where you're *never* going to attack from. Course that would require your team to be patient and control vision which is why Tank metas are so hated, it demands you to actually manage more concepts of the game instead of just going ARAM.

[@Exilum]

I do think that by denying it Asmon kinda proved the video right. The thing about tanking and healing is that people think it's easy. You might think you "only need" to do one thing, but everyone else makes that one thing harder. That one thing does not allow any mistake to be done, and thus not making any mistake is considered a matter of course. The expectations put on you are stellar high. As a DPS, if you stay within 10, or even 20% from the top DPS, you're fine. You can make mistakes, nearly die a few times, maybe get resurrected if the game allows it, and no one will blame you so long as you keep these DPS high enough. In fact, if your DPS are high enough, people will be fine with you blaming the tank or the healer for your mistakes. They'll even agree it's a matter of course that the consequences of your suicidal gameplay are the fault of the tanks or healers, whose one, "easy" task should be kept up. Tanks and healers are roles that are too easy to blame, when no one will ever admit they are at fault. You couldn't see a DPS being accused of wiping the team by not killing the enemies fast enough. The tank has to adapt to the rhythm of the team, the healer has to follow the rhythm of the team, and the DPS don't really care about the rhythm of the team they dictate.

[@xomox5316]

Tanking and healing is easy unless DPS is very bad all MMOs I have played 20+ years. Tanking is the easy once you learn fights all games.

[@NightFoxx99]

In almost every game i play that requires a tank, the role starts off challenging but rewarding. As said game grows older, it inevitably becomes a role dumbed down by developers. Or the other inevitability happens: more players start playing the game and the quality of skill goes down. Or both happen simultaneously, which makes it unrewarding and miserable to play

[@MATCHLESS789]

True. Vanilla/BC tanking was fun, the rest was boring crap.

[@boing5106]

Yup and at one point you can't progress anymore because no matter how good of a tank you are it is entirely dependent on your team whether you win or not that is unless you are playing with friends cus with friends you can trust them and be confident whether you lose or win

[@TheCurbHunter]

I remember back in 2006 leveling my first warrior in WoW to play with friends. I had re-rolled so many times that my re-spec cost got to be too much and so I leveled as a tank. Was absolutely miserable because questing took forever as I did little damage (at least you could slowly aoe groups) so I sat outside of cities calling in global for my services to level in dungeons...

[@billy65bob]

People don't play tanks because they find the responsibility scary. As a tank in an MMO, you're expected to lead the group (this is extremely uncomfortable for healer/DPS mains), set the pace, keep them safe, and handle the mobs and the boss in such a way that they don't wipe the party, etc. All legitimate concerns, but once you've done it a dozen times, you quickly realise these concerns are simply a paper tiger. It's the same when playing healer: when you start out, you're 100x more paranoid about people's health bars than you should be, and that overwhelming fear is why people are adverse to playing it. Once you get over that hurdle, both roles are easy-peezy.

[@edgewizz862]

I like playing tank but it’s more the responsibility that I’m not keen on. All good if I team with mates.

[@martyrofgrenth2136]

I've played all 3 and while I do think each one of the roles has its problems to face, responsibilities and pressure etc., this is what I feel: -Tank has the most responsibility and pressure to set the pace of the instance, they usually need to know most if not all mechanics to avoid deaths and get criticized a lot. -If it's not "the tank's fault" it's the healer's fault because they didn't heal you enough, they get shit on if a DPS dies standing in the fire(from said DPS) or if they run oom and other things like that. -DPS get shit if their dps is underperforming or if they do stupid shit like standing in the fire. There are some variables to this which depends on the content, some fights require DPS to do some mechanics, some fights require healers to be cautious of debuffs etc. that need to be cleansed, and yes sometimes the tank just needs to stand there and soak the damage and do absolutely nothing.

[@mx-gaming87]

I think it depents on that game . Because i see a lot of games that dont want to play supporters or healers .

[@alexis1156]

This is one of the most balanced takes on this discussion. And it's frankly far more true than people saying that dps have "no responsibilities" said by people who likely never did the role, or are just garbage at the game.

[@martyrofgrenth2136]

@@mx-gaming87 Personally I always loved all roles, but unless I play with friends I usually tend to go DPS to try and avoid toxicity and such in case I make any mistakes. With friends I feel much more comfortable to play tank (which is my favorite) or healer :)

[@martyrofgrenth2136]

@@alexis1156 Thanks I appreciate that! And I would say it just usually depends on the encounter (or the game entirely if not talking about WoW), DPS can be in charge of many things and can have lots of responsibility in some fights. So as I said in my original comment, sometimes the DPS needs to do lots of stuff while the tank "tanks and spanks" and sometimes the DPS can focus solely on damage while the tank shifts around etc. as required :D

[@zurcarak]

I would say positioning as a tank is the most important one and the one that shows who's good at tanking, as dps or healer you can appreciate or realize how much better a run can go in any game if the positioning of the tank is good on bosses or mobs-routes, pack grabbing

[@Flamius23]

Miss having a pocket tank. Was always nice.

[@reckless5834]

I love tanking so much, the idea of just taking all the hits and shrugging it off is super enjoyable for me. My only struggle is I'm really not a leader so that makes it pretty hard for me.

[@MorrowProduction]

Anarchy Online had some classes that completely redefined the idea of tanking and off tanking in MMO's in SUCH A GOOD WAY. Martial Artist class was able to dodge tank quite well, but the game was so unique with its implant systems and Attribute/Skill point system you could actually make a SUPER TANKY MMA and tank it like an Enforcer. WHILE ALSO being your own teams healer! Enforcers as the generic high hp/high armor class pop big shields on 5-7 cool-downs for burst spikes. Then you had Fixer tanks who literally just wore Grid Armor that made physical attacks miss like 95% of the time depending on what quality of suit you had. (Generally if you where a fixer with a suite it was a high quality because fixer toons where people who had deep pockets lol.) There was also Metaphysicist class who could tank using his 3 pet system, CC ball, Healing Ball, and Demon tank. Keepers where a new kind of DPS style tank that was just a better enforcer in my opinion (at least for pvp anyways). They had the same HP, better armor/sheilds and way more DPS. Adventurers could tank in Cat Mode using HP implants as well as dodge bonus being in cat form or dragon form. Agent tanks using the miniature form and the shroud of tourin cloak or using Enforcer engrams through agent spells to tank... Engineers could tank with their 158 white scytheclaw bots if you twinked it low enough, never saw raids done with bots tanking though. I think AO had such a great community because it was a game with insane item/stat/twinking depth. You could have a level 90 Agent beat a 220 soldier, or a 150 enforcer destroy anyone he felt like it because you spent 70 hours buffing and item boosting and gear swapping and implant stacking to be able to twink the best 2handed weapon in the game for him to use lol. SHIT i totally forgot about Soldier tanking as well... using reflect sheilds... WTF man there where so many ways to tank in that game. Edit #2 SHIT I forgot about SHADE TANKS, god damn there are SO many tanks in this game...

[@KushDragon420]

Im ALWAYS a tank. Before i even knew what a tank was i built tanks. I even tank games like dark souls, where you cant be a tank.

[@mauriciogomes1091]

I think tank and support the harder ones in general. You have to know all the mechanics and you are always very dependent on your party.

[@andrewcross5918]

I used to really enjoy tanking but I would play with my partner who was a healer and since we were both pretty good we could carry most dps. Also I guess the fact that if a group ended up being toxic we could just go find a new group really quickly was a big bonus.

[@thatsneakyneenja2595]

Why find a new group? If you are a tank and healer you should have party lead, some moron hunter pulls a pack of mobs and whines when they go down? Boot the guy. In my experience people like that are doing terrible damage anyway so not a real loss especially when there's always more dps to join.

[@whataday443]

- DPS is by far the easiest role. You don't have to care about anything except your rotation and maybe interrupting casts from time to time. - Healer can be hard, but it's mostly dependent on what team mates you have. If you have good team mates, then healing is easy. Especially in WoW, where you just click frames to heal. - Tank is hard. Because success rests entirely on your shoulders. You have to actually learn shit. You have to make decisions. You have to correct other people's mistakes, while micro managing aggro, kiting mobs around, and keeping an eye on what each enemy is doing in order to use your defensives properly. You also have to do good dps on top of that if you're not a scrub.

[@alexis1156]

That's just tank ego talking.

[@whataday443]

@@alexis1156 Nah, I've played all roles in all content in this game since 2007. Tank is the hardest to play. you'll notice that plenty of tanks are fucking trash and the reason for that is precisely because it's hard to play.

[@alexis1156]

@@whataday443 Or maybe they're trash because they are just not good players? The reason why you notice tank failures more is simply due to how many tanks you have in your group. You only have 1 or 2, so if they fail, the mistake is immediately noticeable, instead for dps, if one fails it might not be a big deal, as long as he wasn't doing a crucial mechanic. But that doesn't mean that tank is harder to play. It just means that the mistakes are more visible because there are less tanks. Ultimately if you have enough dps you can pretty much ignore mechanics. Having high dps literally makes everything else easier. Have good damage? The group doesn't have time to take damage, therefore the tank and healer work less, and if your tank is bad, and the healer too, as long as you have crazy damage you can somewhat mitigate that. If you have bad damage, but a good tank and healer, you're likely gonna complete the content, but certainly not in time, you're either gonna fail the key, or hit the enrage on a boss. All these people talking about how dps have the least responsibility, easiest role etc, that's just your tank/healer ego talking. All roles are important, if you say otherwise, you either don't know what you are talking about, or you're just a bad player, and you're putting your experience as a bad player as the experience for everyone.

[@Phoenix-ie6iy]

​@@alexis1156 woa. That is a lot of yap bro. Ofc dps is important. Nobody said it isnt. But among all others its definitely the easiest role. All you have to do is maintain your rotation and dont stand in fire. Thats it. At least it was like that back in Cata and Pandaria. I raided like DPS and like tank in both expantions btw

[@Fujtajblus]

Actually, I remember when I used to play LoL ranked back in 2011, people were always screaming "WE NEED A TANK".. just like they did 2 years later with "NEED SUPPORT". So I picked tanks, I was not that bother about it. And very soon I realized that the tank is the deciding factor very often. Because I choose when the fights happen, who I initiate on. I lost games because my carries were too stupid and were trying to force me to initiate in bad setups. But I also turned around many many games because I was the initiator, the zoning tool, the CC. Also carries were fairly brain dead at that time, they just attacked whatever moved and was near. So given this singular objective they, I knew what I can count on from the plays of my team mates. So, yea.. tanks were fun.

[@ZenoDovahkiin]

>Tanks do no damage and are hard, even worse in PvP Not if you're a right proper basher.

[@mdem5059]

I was a tank in FFXI for about 10 years over multiple jobs that all play in a different style, and I loved every one of them. Tanking was always a ton of fun, although I was in a end game group for a lot of that time, so I guess my time was skewed a bit.

[@ChrisPrestonemperorkursan]

Tanking in FF 11 is one of the funnest tanking experiances. You can really show off your skill.

[@fr3akyniv3k]

For PvE, Tanks and DPS don't have to deal with variables, as long as they study the boss patterns and their damage rotations they're good. Healers are all about analysis, they have to adapt and sometimes take split second decisions to the only variable of a game, the PLAYERS. Of course if you have a very consistant party it reduces chaos and healers work best in a non-chaotic environment. (On the other hand, in PvP, the assassin class thrive in chaos and disruption) Depending of the game of course, I think DPS are usually the most demanding mechanical intensive class and tank is the easiest role but also the most dependant role by far. I also understand that different games have different nuances about the holy trinity. Great video! 🙂

[@robinhoodrs]

Tanks in Albion Online are super popular and a massive role in PvP, it's hella fun to play and super rewarding.

[@tfk2328]

You may not remember this but you've once commentated a match where I killed the 2 members of a bombsquad with my demon armor and resulted in our guild's comeback. I'm not playing Albion anymore but that was the coolest thing I've ever done in that game

[@robinhoodrs]

@@tfk2328 And that right there is why Albion's PvP stands out the most to me, even in the biggest of battles, a defensive play from a tank turned the tides of the battle and you came out victorious. Love it. Btw, in early Jan there will be a major update for Territories and the Guild Season if you ever wanna come back and check it out 👍

[@iframe1]

Really depends on a fight, sometimes tanks get absurd amount of mechanics to keep in mind to keep themselves alive and have proper positioning, sometimes healers get blasted with pressure whole fight white having to dispell and dodge stuff nonstop on top of mana issues, there are also fights where dps has to do the dancing and also ensure they keep dps uptime. WoW tbh is pretty well balanced that none of the roles feel like overly easy to play,

[@handsomebear.]

I've been maining Healer and alting DPS _(and Tanking low to mid keys)_ since Legion...mostly played DPS before that. Been doing higher keys _(up to 20~)_ as a tank in DF. I exclusively play PuG groups. And tbh, I find it way more common that DPS players who are underperforming are getting shat on in PuGs. Usually when a Tank/Healer is below par, people just request smaller pulls _(or leave if their competence is so low that you get stuck obviously)._ Also the only time I've received praise in several different groups within the span of a week or two was while pushing myself to tank higher keys...and all I really did was plan or find a route and practiced using all the utility my spec had _(interrupts, stops, movement, etc)_ and tried my best to not pull more than the group could handle lmao... ...that's a pretty low bar compared to what you need to do for anyone in a PuG to really notice and give your praise/compliments as a DPS/Healer.

[@handsomebear.]

...also the only time I can remember getting several people being really nasty towards me in a PuG was when I joined my first low key _(I think it was a +4)_ as a Guardian in Legion and was completely overwhelmed by it haha _(I had only played Druid as Balance in MoP and Resto in WoD/Legion before this, just did some WQs and maybe a HC dungeon or two as Guardian. And had only really tanked dungeons in general while leveling on other classes)._ So while they were being unnecessarily nasty about it, I wouldn't say that I didn't deserve some shit for not practicing in appropriate content first. To be clear, I'm pretty sure I had decent gear _(except no tanking/melee DPS trinkets)_ from playing Resto...unless they hadn't introduced multi main stat gear already in Legion(maybe that came in BfA?)...but tbf even dog gear on that keylevel should be fine... It was purely me just getting overwhelmed due to not knowing how to tank in general, not knowing how to tank the particular dungeon and not knowing how to either DPS as a Guardian nor what def buttons to press and when...on top of not having played a melee spec, beyond leveling alts for fun/mount farming, since Enha Shammy in WotLK ^^

[@derisgaming9773]

After years of dealing with Toxic DPS, I now enjoy being a Toxic Tank. If I'm pulling fast, staying alive and managing to also keep up with your DPS. I'm going to straight up call you out on it. If you try to pull for me instead of letting me dictate the flow of combat, I'll let you die and then call you out on it. It's a good time and I know that leaving a group means I'll still find another group fairly fast, whereas the shit DPS will be stuck in queue for a while.

[@cantran7119]

What about your healer brother man :(

[@Vastatio]

i'm literally the exact same. sucks that the reason we deal with a lot of shit is because other tanks let DPS get away with the things you mention, glad there's someone else out there putting them in their place.

[@LawfulBased]

I don't hate tanking. I'm just not doing it cause of my good old introverted social anxiety roots. The tank is the wierdo standing right in front of the mobs that everyone is looking at, so basically almost always in the center of everyone's attention. This stage belongs to the indifferent or extroverts. 😏 Especially after a wipe.

[@Dead_Goat]

Tanking is the introvert role. You just take aggro and let everyone else dance around controlling the run. You just keep the healers alive and mock the dps players for being stupid.

[@LawfulBased]

@@Dead_Goat A dude once told me that he does not feel anyone's glances on him as a tank but as a DPS he would. Cause of the DPS meter addon. 😏 So funny to think people associate the toughest roll only with how much people might see them as embarassing.

[@Vastatio]

@@Dead_Goat tank controls the run.

[@shadowmaster335]

i suspect the reason why ppl dislike tanking & healer roles is cuz it doesn't give as big a dopamine hit as seeing big number's pop off, and let's be honest, dpsing is in most cases for lack of better word "braindead" jobs, no need to care about mechanics, just need to see big numbers pop up, that said, not all dps jobs are braindead as "mash x skill till enemy is dead" but alot are

[@IamDirtyDan]

I actually LOVE playing both Tank and Support. Those are always my favorite roles in any game. Problem is, with team based games, I have serious distrust and outright bad experiences with teammates who don't know how to do anything other than DPS (and not even good at it) so they leave me to dry constantly. It's unfortunate that people don't understand how to work as a team or play their roles but that's the risk you take with matchmaking. The flashy roles get all the attention and the wannabes who try to play them blame everyone else with the lack of production. Rinse, repeat.

[@bigcali173]

I would love to tank but I see how people trash them constantly. Especially if it’s the first or second time a person has ever ran that instance. They never give him/her time to learn. Same with healer. I see some tanks/Dps run and run and never give the healer a mana break. Then they trash the healer. People suck. Low level dungeons are the most fun because nobody is expecting anything spectacular. Everybody is relaxed and having a laugh. The higher you get, the more uptight and snobbish people are.

[@shadowlight6084]

@@bigcali173 I would personally reccomend Final Fantasy XIV. The community there has been heavily understanding from all the time I played it and learning bout the three different roles using the duty roulette...hell more then that they been encouraging. Honestly how people like tanking and healing or support in general could be on the community more then just the devs and how they make the roles interact with the game.

[@solareiusdeiu]

Tank is support

[@Abysslz]

Yes and that’s why most people only play dps, no one wants to give a tank or healer a chance

[@miloradmickovic2831]

Yep, totally agree with you Asmon. As a healer, the difficulty the game presents to you is directly corresponding to the level of skill (or lack thereof) from all other players in your party or raid. I haven't healed in raids but in some heroics and such did and it was a breeze because my friends that I played with were good at the game, but I can easily see how it can be a nightmare for healers unless you are in one of those no-lifing hardcore progression guilds where every player knows all the mechanics of a boss fight and knows what his job is and how he is to avoid as much damage as possible.

[@Frustinator]

14:50 Bit to much cherry picking, simplifiy either none or all the roles because "All dps has to do is get the enemy health bar to zero" is also true. You're point is that DPS has a meter which can easily compare them to other DPS, while the meters for healers and tanks doesn't say as much - that is true. That doesn't make the dps role harder to play, it makes the role more competitive.

[@WhyDaRumGone]

This is facts

[@Swerg20]

I love tanking but often its a difficult role to get into compared to other roles despite often times being the easiest overall. DPS and Healing are oftenly more reactive roles, where tanks often have to take a proactive role and know mechanics or routes ahead of time.. In a new game/patch/xpac this is less of an issue but older content other players expect you as a tank to know a lot of things ahead of time so that they can just follow behind. Mostly an issue is pugs but you get the idea. New players make mistakes and get flamed then they switch off to likely never return.

[@oatkungar]

The difficulty of DPS is the most static and does not depends heavily on the performance of other roles in the team. For example, healer is the hardest role if the party is full of braindead zombies, but is the easiest role if everyone knows what they're doing. This does not apply to a PVP game obviously.

[@paulsaguto9563]

You can tell Asmon's experience with variety of MMOs and endgame content from him thinking all healers need to do is keep the team alive. Most endgame-level content in games (other than WOW I guess) requires the healer to manage mechanics, cleansing, placing DOTs, AND keeping your team alive. I have never seen someone as a DPS be compared to the highest parse when doing high-end content in my experiences. I HAVE seen DPS be properly diagnosed for not dishing out enough damage to clear mobs, or interrupting, but that is the base gameplay mechanics of a DPS on almost all RPGs. Being DPS shouldn't be only standing in one spot trying to deal the biggest possible number with the best gear, you should have to engage in the fight mechanics like everyone else too...

[@absolutefolly2011]

Completely disagree with this take. Healers are by far the most hated role. And it's really obvious why. Most people just want to do damage. Most people just want to be the hero archetype. And the hero archetype is always the one that does the most damage and dishes out the most punishment to the bad guys... A k a d p s. Healers are seen as support roles like medics in war, thays your girlfriends job. Tanks are at least still smashing the enemy and taking hits in melee like a badsss. You can feel cool tanking

[@TheWideMurloc]

The switch up on the holy trinity works well in gw2, but it was hard to adjust to early on. Nowadays it’s easy to get filled in through osmosis of just playing, on how the “roles” work. Tanks and healers are basically rolled into 1 role, where tank abilities focus on protecting teammates from incoming damage, which is practically healing Meanwhile parse culture isn’t really a huge thing for dps cuz addons aren’t technically allowed, but they don’t crack down on it unless you use addons to be toxic Then for both healers and dps, there are sort of “sub roles” based on the buffs you give out. Quickness for attack speed Alacrity for cooldown speed And power or conditions (dots) for raw output, which is only for dps obviously ie quickness healer, qheals. Alac dps, adps. Condi dps, cdps

[@Trapp_]

When raid groups get bigger it gets really impossible to track individual performance. It's not too hard for a tank to position the boss correctly, so it's expected. But only himself and his healer can assess each other performance. Everybody else can rely only on damage meters.

[@saeedatenzi]

Typical pug player

[@LEWIS1992]

How the frig is DPS difficult?! In games like FF14 you can't even see how much damage they've done!

[@_Jacks_]

Well.. I've got bad news for you 😂

[@Bruh_but_why]

​@_Jacks_ To be fair it isn't exactly allowed to have dps meters

[@jantjedoedelus8079]

Ive maintanked in casual guilds and in raiding guilds ( lets exclude dungeons for now ). I really liked tanking in casual guilds, there is no pressure we all had fun and i never felt the initial blame went to me. Raiding guilds on the other hand i am the first line in the blame game, the pressure is high and i didnt like it one bit. Now come the dungeon part.. i hold a piece of power.. people complain about the pace of the dungeon however i can just say : Dont like it ? Goodluck finding another tank and 85% of the time that was the end of it. I healed in classic and ive seen the tank role... and now with the knowledge of both of those roles im going dps. I dont like the pressure, people are rude and impatient. Its time to pass the torch.

[@Adam-wt5id]

I think it depends on certain games tank mechanics and how it serves that role. In certain turn based games, once you start min/maxing tanking just doesn’t make sense to eat damage at high levels when you can potentially end the threats before they ever get a turn. It all depends on how the endgame content turns out. Ive never struggled or didnt enjoy tanking if i was playing through a campaign or story mode in a more casual setting. Whenever you play competitively tensions are going to be high and the margin for error is smaller

[@HebiSnake]

Sounds like a WoW specific problem. I get plenty of love as a tank on FFXIV.

[@baragoth]

I was a MT in those elite hardcore raidingguilds in vanilla up to and including Ulduar, and I loved it. I commanded so much respect. If I accepted a pug I would get lovebombed the whole run. ;D My solo capabilities was nerfed, sure, but I was always the first to get that phat loot. But I guess my story isn't really comparable to most.

[@despare8198]

Okay so I see a lot of comments about "why people play mostly dps, why more popular ?" "why does asmon say tank is easier ?" "why is healer less difficult then dps ? huh ?" 1 - people mostly play dps, not because it has less responsibility in terms of how important the role is in the group, contrarily to what I saw in a few comments. It's just because people like flashy moves and big numbers, plain and simple, don't make it complicated. 2 - "Tank is easier", now I am not 100% sure what I'm saying is what Asmon meant, but from my understanding, tank needs more knowledge on the game, but less effort once you do have the gear + knowledge, it is a difficult upwards slope, but once you're on top it gets flatter and you do your job well, which is to not die. Just take aggro, don't die, and you're good. (I know I make it seem very simplistic, of course it depends on the game itself and the way each player sees it, but this is a general assumption from mmo experience) 3 - Same as with tank, healer just needs to make others not die this time. Now I will say I am not in total accord with asmon on this one. In many games the healer/support has to be very careful of position, and has a good view on which players need help and how to help them. Although I do think dps can (not is) usually be harder, but that depends on the characters and the game system thus comes number 4. 4 - Depends on characters/classes, some are easier to play, some are harder, kind of regardless of the role. But dps do tend to have characters that require specific combinations of skills to maximise their output, and if they do one fuck-up on the order or timing in which skills are used, they lose consistant effectiveness. So yes they *can* (not do) tend to be more difficult, but not always, that is blatantly wrong. Each role is very important, and has its difficulties, but also advantages. Losing a tank or a healer can easily lose you the battle. Losing a dps will less often make you lose the battle, (but a lot of time though, which is a pain when you do lose them). But in the end, the healer, tank and dps all support each other to make a team. One makes the passes, one stops the opponent from scoring, and one scores points. I think you need all of those to make a team, am I wrong ?

[@Entolexeia]

T'parle trop.

[@soleriassowilo2103]

Le bro il a tout di.

[@despare8198]

XD@@Entolexeia

[@ramezhachicho1777]

Honestly can't really agree there asmon. I've tried all 3 roles fairly extensively and I'd have to say that by FAR healers have the easiest role. In fact it's gotten so easy these days that healers are EXPECTED to put out decent dps in addition to all their healing. Wouldn't be room for that if the actual JOB of a healer wasn't piss easy. And in my experience people generally fellate healers pretty heavily. If the Tank dies it's the tank's fault doesn't matter if the healer didn't heal the tank once over 10 seconds of taking dmg that's STILL the tanks fault. Not gonna say there's not garbage tanks but there's garbage healers too. And the tank usually gets the blame.

[@eldenarmortem975]

I guess It depends on a game, I was main holy priest in whole TBC classic and must say the healing was hard, maintaining mana troughtout fight was art form. But in Wotlk I ve dropped the game in middle of Naxx phase, I was bored out of my mind, 99logs with disco DPS tho...

[@ramezhachicho1777]

@@eldenarmortem975 Healing was very different in classic/tbc. I'd agree it was a more difficult role then too. As a general rule of thumb that can NOT be applied to every situation. assuming that other people are playing at least competantly. If people other than the tank dies .. It's probably the tanks fault. But if the tank dies and he's playing okay and not horrendously undergeared. It's probably the healer's fault.

[@Zeppathy]

Every fight is a dps check. Your healers mana bar is your fight timer. If your dps can not kill everything before your healer OOMs, everyone dies. Every time a dps stands in the fire and the healers have to spend extra mana healing you, that costs you a time penalty. Every time the tank faces the boss the wrong direction and cleaves the whole group, that costs you a time penalty. Every error means the dps has to work faster or the healer will OOM and then everyone dies.

[@davidhurcombe6505]

The mmo I play most is eso. Tanking and healing in that are about more than just holding agro and keeping everyone alive, both roles are considered support because in end game content they're EXPECTED to hold agro/heal AND buff the group. Then as mentioned at the start of the video, the tank is meant to be leading the group so know mechs. The only thing a dps has to do is get their rotation down so they can maximise their damage output which they get increased thanks to the tanks and healers.

[@slayerhuh404]

I always thought healer was the most hated, or at least the most blamed.

[@Ceronia]

people hate PLAYING healer, not the healer themself.

[@denzelherrman]

nah that was years ago they are kinda acknowledged now

[@AnonningAnon]

Tanks usually have healing alts anyway, so healers and tank players overlap regularly in the hate zone.

[@johnlinks]

​@@Ceroniathis is not true. Healers hate people that expect the healer to bail out those who make mistakes

[@Ceronia]

​@@johnlinks i never said anything about healer themself. But rather the majority concensus of playerbase is "Playing healer is stressful and unrewarding, so we hate playing them". Not once i ever saw a person hating healers. They only hate having to do the healing.

[@BrotherBlackBoltz]

I love being tank cap

[@Madjiitensha]

Same, imo one of most fun tanks were in Terra, with visual changes in blocking.

[@Thejigholeman]

if im playing alone, i choose a dps class if i play with friends, i choose a healer or a tank. (healer is more fun than the other two.) Healer: If HP

[@galactick3816]

"If you know what you're doing it's easy" - asmog Tanks in most MMOs are knowledge and positioning dependent they have simple rotations but the attention required is much higher than DPS. Tanks may be easy mechanically but the expectations are pretty high. I've never seen DPS compared to anyone, they only get shit on when they pull what the tank didn't tell them to pull

[@conanruisi]

Tanks can do tons of damage especially when they scale with hp or defense stats. Some champs in league have this feature, and they are high dps tanks. There is also bruiser role.

[@bartofii]

I think the issue is that healers dont determine the way people advance through an encounter the way a tank does. Tanks can often get stuck with the entirety of positioning and handling incoming adds... Before it was horrible because the added survival tools came at the steep cost of literally all your damage potential. Now, however, tanks have just as much damage as the average dps before factoring in cooldowns and the finer minmax themes. At some point i got surprised at how tanks got ape that surpassed my dps builds (cause at times not all tools were available)

[@jeremymullens7167]

I had a talk with my brother about tanks in overwatch 2. You can always go to the roots of gaming and build from there. In DnD fighting men did the most melee damage and had the highest defense and health. Magic users could out damage them in short bursts but would run out of steam and also brought utility. Clerics are a melee fighter that brings support and healing. They have armor as high as the tanks but less hit points and damage. Thief is a support character made for opening doors and chests. They can play support to the melee group but don’t want a direct confrontation. They work off of tricks and ambushes in combat. In DnD there were 3 damage classes. They were just variable. Fighting men get reliable damage. Thief gets high damage backstabs. Magic users get limited hit damage nukes. Being a fighter was a lot about controlling space and making sure enemies couldn’t get to the back line. Clerics could be in the tier 2 melee line to attack from the second row and heal/buff and swap out with an injured front liner. Thief would do best to try and flank if it is safe or try to provide other support. Maybe keeping lookout on the rear. Magic users do nothing(ranged attacks if possible) unless spells are needed. At low levels thieves can’t really succeed at their abilities. And magic users have limited spells(I think 1 cast at first level). Fighting men were the superior class with clerics providing support. At later levels magic users pulled ahead as they got more spells. More spells in number of casts and powerful spells. I don’t think any game(I could just be unaware of it) has recreated old DnD combat mechanics. Any one in melee gets stuck there till it’s over(you can try to leave but it can be dangerous). You can reposition the fight and fall back or move but you can’t walk right by someone itching for a fight. You also run the risk of shooting someone in the back if you fire into a melee fight. There’s one last thing fighting men got that is often overlooked. Cleave. They can kill multiple lower level enemies in short order. Think of action hero heroics killing multiple foes in one smooth motion. When you get to final fantasy, the cleric lost their armor and fighting ability. The thief lost a lot of the utility from the table top game. I think the warrior mostly works but the system is very different. Tanks should do damage in a limited range. Mages should do damage with a limited resource. I think the match ups are fighter beats thief. Thief beats magic user and magic user beats fighter if prepared and at range. If you get in the tanks zone of control, you should die. There should be somewhere they’re limited but it doesn’t have to be damage.

[@Aerroon]

I am the complete opposite of Asmongold on "it always worries me when a game doesn't use the holy trinity, because I assume it will be bad." I look at a game and if it uses the holy trinity system I will assume it's bad. And they almost always are. Even the very best examples like WoW have massive issues that are caused by this trinity system. It's just endless amounts of waiting. If I'm playing a tank I'm sitting there twiddling my thumbs waiting for a support. If I'm playing a support I'm sitting there waiting for a tank. If I'm playing a DPS I'm sitting there waiting for a tank or a support. It's always like this. It introduces a lot of gatekeeping and unfun interactions between players. After Lost Ark I'm starting to think that it's not even worth trying a game that includes Supports. Tanks are dependent on what the game is like though.

[@HorusHerotic]

Everyone blames tank first, then healer

[@DeadHandDominator]

tanks are fun as hell, just its actually impossible if you are not playing with people you can work good with, as asmon said it is the easiest role, i mean the whole point of a tank is to sit there and do nothing but draw aggro, should note im talking about pve mmos not pvp. imo tanks in pvp games are almost impossible to make a tank