Are Stellaris Juggernauts Bad?

[@A_Spec]

I really dislike thing, prove me wrong.

[@SirTimothyLaurence117]

same i just build it just to build it or use it to patrol around my empire

[@isuckatusernames4297]

mods such as extra ship components. it makes the juggernaught a massive beast capable of taking down most crisis fleets. plus I always see it as a bit of a vanity project

[@Major_Nuance]

It's a mobile ship yard. Can repair. Use it as a logistic tool and not a war fighting tool and you'll get more use out it. Did I do good ASPEC-Senpai?

[@darkner2390]

Artillery/X weapon/T weapon battleship and titan fleet plus 40% range modifier.(Also, don't fill M slots) Do I need to say any more?

[@somebodythe5th]

About the speed issue, use (t5) dark matter thrusters on the juggernaut, and (t4) impulse thrusters on the battleships and titans. This will make the juggernaut slightly faster than the battleships, allowing it to easily keep up with them. Juggernauts with the range boost aura are a vital part of my line of battle, and something I always build asap.

[@Gh0st652]

I want an origin where your empire is just a wandering Juggernaut with all kinds of unique upgrades to actually produce things

[@A_Spec]

This was an origin for last years Mod Jam.

[@TheSaival]

you basically play caravaners

[@ProvostZarakov]

Karak....is burning.. *adagio in strings intensifies*

[@cirilocuyos1832]

@@A_Spec what’s the mods name?

[@Patrickf5087]

@@A_Spec basically Homeworld

[@maxterhex]

Best use of this thing is parking it in Terminal Egress with +40% range aura and full upgraded starbase with defence platforms to catch enemy fleets trying use L-gates to teleport around galaxy.

[@DefaultProphet]

Yup 100% that’s my move too

[@stc2828]

L gate is super hard to defend if you have high level crisis coming

[@Deathsight23]

Was coming in the comments just to type this lol

[@vasheroo]

This strategy sounds great to me. A lot of times I just turn off the L gates because I find them annoying. Most of the time I don't even build the jug, but if I do, I'll park it in terminal egress.

[@nikitashilov9758]

Use it same way

[@SeaSpartan118]

I would use the jugg a whole lot more if you could disable it's shipyard. Whenever I build a new fleet of battleships from the fleet manager, the jugg always tries to build at least 2 even though it's on a different quadrant than the rest of the shipyard

[@hellpyro2385]

ah this is so annoying fleet manager should prioritize closest shipyards, also they are super slow for no reason i mean mass won't matter much, larger ships, larger engines right?

[@drongbeard3138]

just limiting juggs to corvettes and destroyers, also merging them into a small fleet with it would be good too. It also dies far to quick no matter how you set it up.

[@gallendugall8913]

That would be an improvement over what I see. I build a Jugg and anything queued just stacks up in its two ship queue ignoring all other options.

[@goldenhate6649]

Exactly. US aircraft carriers are actually one of the fastest ships in the US fleet even though they weigh more than 100 thousand tons.

[@prophetherbandderp2733]

@@goldenhate6649 Bigger does not mean necessary slower, but I am unsure if your example translates well into stellaris. The aircraft carriers have a nuclear plant, which most other ships do not. In stallaris, I think the implications are that you can use the same techs to move all ships. For example if you compare same era ships with nuclear reactors and you believe the Kirov class stats, the cruiser has top speed 32 knots, while the Nimitz has 30. about 6% speed difference, for one ship being quarter the mass of the other. In the same time I must admit I do not trust the Soviet naval tradition too much. The subs seem good, but there is something fishy with their surface ships.

[@codexaeterna]

Jugs are so useful as a forward operating station for my playstyle. Far from my empire borders, the ability to pull fleets back for refitting, repairing, and quick reinforcement is amazing. Jugs are also good for taking down small system stations while the main attack fleets tackle the citadels & enemy fleets. Also, they are cool looking!

[@skrybosaw4448]

The second thing could as well be done by a smaller auxiliary fleet, which will be faster anyway. The fact that it can take on stations is rather a lack of a flaw than a bonus.

[@adamnevraumont4027]

Repair is good, but I find burning a slot on repair tissue anyhow. Upgrades and reinforcements take too long with only 2 build slots.

[@Thenlar]

One small note about the weird aura modules. If you don't mind the micro, the juggernaut can refit itself. Fleet doing some bombardment? Refit to bombardment bonus until you're satisfied and then change back.

[@HappyFluegel]

This helps in m opinion if ou have those nasty infected worlds but no kolossus

[@maiqtheliar789]

Juggernauts wouldn't be to bad if they could actually join fleets. Maybe allow you to make a few of them up to a cap. Plus one for the federation and custodian fleets. Maybe add a couple more shipyards to them. A juggernaut should be like bringing one of your strongest fortresses you have into battle with you. Yeah if you had it in a fleet might slow down your advance on a fleet but having it there to support your fleet would more than make up for being slow. As it stands I only tend to use them to give a bit of extra firepower to my defenses in my territory where needed. Then after the battle is done can help the local shipyards rebuild any ships I lost. Makes a fine addition to any defense if you have a fully built up fortress in a system and are moving in more fleets to deal with the issue. Other than that just never have it in a position where it would make any difference.

[@jaystrickland4151]

Adding them to a fleet would help a lot. Carrier BSs and Destroyers are a must to protect the juggernaut. All to often the Juggernauts is lagging behind the main fleet and gets ambushed by a swarm of corvettes.

[@Aja-e5j]

You could just have a fleet follow the juggernaut around

[@maiqtheliar789]

Isn't quite the same thing

[@TheReal_birbwizard]

Set your position like this fleet b follows juggernaut, juggernaut follows fleet a, fleet a takes point.

[@maiqtheliar789]

Then click away to deal with something else. Forget what you were doing. So juggernaut falls behind fleet a because fleet a is much faster than the juggernaut. Fleet b just flies off somewhere because hell if I know how the AI thinks. Juggernaut gets picked off while it is passing though a system trying to keep up with fleet a and dies. Rage quit game and wonder why the hell Paradox can't just have juggernauts and colossus be part of fleets. Repeat next time you try to use a juggernaut as part of a strike force into enemy territory. Cry sadly and whine about it to random people on the internet.

[@Alister222222]

Juggernauts do feel like they need some love, but I have found the perfect use for them: use them against the Grey Tempest, mainly to hop into a system before your real fleets, so they soak up the beam attacks that will 1-shot your battleships and/or kill your titans. (This would also work when assaulting a fallen empire system). A single juggernaut will keep a grey tempest fleet busy for quite a long time, allowing your fleet to hop in and finish them off with zero losses, something that is nearly (or entirely) impossible to do without one.

[@piotrrywczak]

You need to share your secrets for having Juggernauts during the Grey Tempest. In the year of our lord 2290 I had a fleet of 30k, not a Juggernaut.

[@MegaLordBane]

@@piotrrywczak you should probably have about 3x depending on what you're playing. But you won't have a juggernaut for another 50 years for sure.

[@Alister222222]

@@piotrrywczak I tend to open the L-gates late, but it is definitely possible to be on repeatables by 2090 (not that I always achieve this, but that I have done so). I tend to play Grand Admiral with mid-game set 25 years early and late game 50 years early. My most effective build in the current version of the game was a fanatic pacifist shattered ring. Fanatic pacifist + egalitarian lets you also take the civic that reduces empire size from pops by a further 15%, for -75% empire size once you stack everything. This means you can have a huge population and barely be paying more for techs than someone a quarter your size. On a shattered ring, if you micromanage everything you can end up with a mega-powerful trade segment (outputting thousands of trade value that you can convert to consumer goods) and a couple of 3000+ science research segments. This is in addition to the rest of your empire. You can be making so much trade that you can constantly buy out the slave market even at the high prices egalitarians have to pay, for a steady stream of pops. (This works best as an empire that accepts robots, since there tend to be a lot of those on the market). With all of this you can rush late-game engineering techs pretty early.

[@staorus4047]

One time my Juggernaut absolutely trolled an entire Unbidden fleet single-handedly since the Unbidden’s ships are programmed to chase and my Juggernaut was programmed to keep distance, so it just circled around the system and picked off each interdimensional ship one by one.

[@patrickhall6253]

Honestly after listening to the vid I think that a juggernaut is best used as a lynchpin of a serious defensive system that needs to be held no matter the cost. And you just park,it at the edge to help one buff up the citadel plus station u got going on and whatever fleets warp in to help the fight etc. and to help reinforce rebuild ships in fleets in those massive fortress systems with pesky shipyards on the death station batteries.

[@matthewwilkins2205]

It would add a lot of value to a system that has to be held as a chokepoint, but then again, if you're a player with a defensive playstyle (like me), your Bastions will already be crossing 60k by the time you get a Jugg.

[@HappyFluegel]

Depending on where l gates are I like to hold the terminal egress system with one juggernaut in the back and a couple of fleets at the l gate. Goal is to limit the movement of the enemy through l gates whilst keeping it ourself. This becomes more important later with multiple parties to a war or multiple wars at the same time

[@ocadioan]

Placing it at Terminal Egress allows you, along with the other range modifiers from the Citadel, to have a fleet sitting parked at the Citadel and still manage to catch enemy fleets moving through the L-gates before they get to jump out. That is quite literally the only thing that I build it for.

[@davidchang6023]

Yeah this. Jugg is a star fortress that can reposition itself and can stack with existing citadel. It's terrible on offense due to slowness.

[@rudiruttger]

I just want to form a fleet around them

[@aleverettes2789]

Juggernaut will probably be pretty good(in terms of its alloy cost) with 3.6's combat rework since in current test build the most efficient monofleet is mass carrier and juggernaut is essentially equivalent to 3 carrier battleships Also 2 built-in shipyards is thematically pretty weak that I agree, with a more realistic approach for its cost it should instead have full 6 shipyards Also a juggernaut doesn't cost any naval capacity so it's like 50 free naval cap worth of power at least it's useful at playing the diplomatic weight game which coincidentally suits aspec's "giant white elephant" analogy

[@koyamamoto5933]

I would think a shipyard subset that's only good for repair or upgrade would be a good thing to have on a Juggernaut. Particularly if you could build say 6 or 10 of them on a single Juggernaut.

[@zaneex4043]

Niche strategy here: queue up a pair of battleships on the Jugg wait until just before they're finished then Quantum catapult the Jugg to the enemy's rear, It's a good move to draw away enemy fleets from the frontline Or cause some chaos for an enemy's ally that's too far to reach conventionally

[@darkner2390]

Weird choice of the developers to add M slots instead of L slots on a ship which is clearly meant for extremely long range. This is a ship which is supposed to hang back and deal lots of damage from afar, while supporting its fleet by building new ships and providing a crap ton of strike craft. It just doesn't make sense to use medium range weapons for this ship, as it alone won't be able to utilize them from its position. Edit: Especially when it has an aura effect that increases range by 40%. A long range weapon benefits a lot more from a percentage-based modifier than a short range weapon. Edit 2: I think that the juggernaut can be an incredible asset to fleets, but only if it has reworks done to it, such as increased speed and L slots, as well as better aura effects, because only the range modifier is actually worth getting at this point.

[@DreamWalkerVl]

You can use a swarm of missiles in a new patch in these slots now with 120 range. Not that bad now.

[@mattmunroe9905]

Doubt provided a good suggestion but I would like to add that with the new minimum range mechanic on larger slots having mediums is excellent for helping it not take excessive damage from picket ships that slip past the large weapons minimum range. Also strike craft are better with this patch and picket (point defense) ships are actually mildly useful now as missiles are a lot more spammable on different ship types, such as destroyers with a bunch of small slots or upgraded missile cruisers, and point blank torpedo boats with a few picket ships are terrifying for the older battleship only fleet comps even if they go carriers. Juggernauts are slightly better now too but still are more of a very luxury option that you should only do if you have an excellent economy.

[@AuthorOfNewborne]

I always tell myself to not make a Jugernoaut in every game i play because of how slow, cumbersome and inconvenient when invading enemy territories but the urge to build one for no reason and not use it at all always get to me.

[@squirrel_slapper]

I say you can't have a colossus without a juggernaut. They should go everywhere together. The juggernaut can provide a degree of protection should the colossus ever be "caught with its pants down". Also has the invaluable effect of letting you switch colossus weapons on the fly.

[@MediumRareOpinions]

useful for swapping out its main weapon too if you want to crack some but sweep others.

[@zeocamo]

together with the colossus and it is just a bigger target, if you can kill both then you win 25% of the war. they don't be alone

[@MediumRareOpinions]

@@zeocamo There should always be a fleet within jump range, I've never seen an enemy juggenaut go down in one fight though anyway. It's always Emergency FTL jumped before I could kill it.

[@thechazz3230]

It's still bullshit that Colossi can't at least partially defend themselves. They're death stars for Pete's sake. You should be able to deck them out in a massive amount of Strike Craft and A good chunk of L slot weapons so they can go on the defensive and fight back against immediate slaughter while nuking a planet. It doesn't need XL or any capital class ship weapons since its purpose is planet destruction not wiping fleets. But it should at least have weapons. Look at The Death Star with with its fleets upon fleets of Tie Fighters, some 15000 lasers and a ton of Turbolaser Arrays. Not to mention it had dry docks for repairing and refitting Star Destoryers. The Colossus is pathetically weak in comparison to what inspired it.

[@TheGypsyTurtle]

Straight up but I always have 2 - 3 fleets within a couple systems

[@mrfluffyhedgehog]

I use a juggernaut exclusively as mobile forward base for my fleets for repairs and refits in mid game. For this role it is quite good. In late game it is about as durable as a chocolate hammer though, loosing most of it's usefulness. In addition you have other ways to get your fleet around fast by then. At that point I usually place it alongside the weakest point in my defence line alongside a built up starbase just to buy a few more days should an enemy come this way.

[@sharifabdelal4149]

I mostly play single player, just putting that out there. The Juggernaut is amazing when you’re on the defense. If you’re not using it to project force, you can use it to defend key choke points in your home systems, or at other key choke points. It’s great for taking the L Cluster as well. It’s not going to be your entire strategy, but backed up my another fleet it can help you not need to worry about defense as you go offensive with the rest of your fleets. When using it as a checkpoint, you do need to micro your other fleets but I fight wars that way anyway. You need to be mindful of where the enemy fleets are, as well as what hyper lanes are between your fleets and the juggernaught. It’s like defending any other starbase.

[@mtgusa]

I always build one and always regret it. Once you get jump drives having a mobile shipyard is way less of a boon and the aura effects of the Titan is usually sufficient enough.

[@Guru_1092]

Yeah but jump drives push you into unbidden territory, and those guys suck.

[@thechazz3230]

Hear me out. They could fix The Jug with 3 small changes. 1. switching out its rotating XL slots by replacing them with 2 rotating Titan Gun slots. 2. Allowing you to build 1 every 500 fleet capacity instead of 1 per empire. That way you will be able to have multiple mobile star bases for all fronts on which you wage your wars and not be boned the second your only one dies. 3. Increase its speed drastically. From base 80 to the 100 Titans and Battleships share. This would allow it to roll around with its protection squad without falling behind your main fleets. Bonus round. 1. Have its strike craft aura buff be always active ontop of allowing you to run one of the other buffs you selected. 2. Add The Dreadnought in as another Colossal ship that actually acts as the offensive twin of The Juggernaut where the both of them grant massive buffs to each other if in the same system.

[@renaldoawesomesauce1654]

A juggernaut can solo most stations including end game crisis stations. That's what I use them for. I can send one solo to take out a string of stations while my main fleet goes after their fleets. Very useful in that capacity.

[@tite93]

My juggernaut usually follows my main fleets without actually engaging in combat, providing quick corvette replacements and such. Usually when I get a juggernaut I'm already rolling over the entire galaxy, so it's more of a convenience thing than a necessary addition to the fleet

[@baironbreak]

I like to use it for boosting bastions range. But I HATE the lack of an option to turn off it's shipyards

[@xstartheone9404]

Ultimate Counter Argument: It looks cool next to my actually competent fleet.

[@adamsloan5471]

It also takes build slots when trying to reinforce a fleet. It will queue up 10 battleships at the juggernaut while your megashipyard is empty.

[@cet0708]

Can you disable their shipyards? They always start building when I crank out a new fleet, and seem to take precedence over my mega shipyard.

[@solarisone1082]

Only through mods.

[@evenmoor]

The juggernaut makes me think of the Fast Fleet Auxiliaries from _The Lost Fleet_ books (great series, highly recommend it). The Fast Fleet Auxiliaries are mobile fleet factories that are anything but fast and are a constant source of stress for the protagonist, the fleet commander, as they are threat magnets for the enemy. Given that the titular fleet is trapped deep in enemy territory, the Fast Fleet Auxiliaries are the reason they can keep fighting condition, repairing battle damage and churning out ammunition. If the auxiliaries are destroyed, it's a slow but certain doom for the fleet. I agree that the juggernaut is currently not all that good offensively. It's too slow to keep up with the main battle fleet to make the best use of its aura, meaning you need jump drives to make it at all useful as an offensive tool. Defensively, however, it can be very powerful in conjunction with gateways and/or hyper relays, which negate its plodding sublight speed issue.

[@marcustulliuscicero5443]

The only use I have found for a Juggernaut is against the Crises, where it can serve as a repair station for the actual combat fleets in the territory scoured by the crisis.

[@NovaDragon]

Juggnaught only comes in handy when defending, very useful for L-Gateway or galactic wonders, and building science/construction ships during them times.

[@MrMarinus18]

If you are defending it's kind of redundant as you can use your starbases. Also the 2 ship building slots just isn't strong enough to accomplish much when it becomes available. I also have no idea what you mean with the L-gateway. That comes up long before the juggernaught becomes available and since it's such a bottleneck you can just make it an invincible fortress.

[@chrisdupuis2523]

I wish there was an option to build a "combat" juggernaut, scrap the 2 (useless) shipyards and give it much better weaponry. In my opinion it should have large weapon slots and more medium slots. Something like 2 X slots, 4 L slots, and 8 M slots.

[@isuckatusernames4297]

FP's juggernaught Super Carrier gives the juggernaught about 22 hangars and a few torpedoes slots.

[@lt-ganymed]

I think you are right ASpec. The only 3 usages I see are: - the homebase (as you said) - escort for the colossus and the option to change its weapon fast - my personal favorite but also very rare and niche is to combine the homebase with jumpdrive cooldown aura and go for a commando operation behind the enemy lines

[@samsonthemanson]

They're also mandatory to 1 system habitat playthroughs for extra aura stacking

[@DanStaal]

I tend to use them on the opposite side of my empire while I'm in war. They can typically handle smaller systems/empires and keep them off my back while I tend to my real fleet. (I also never actually build them, but tend to get one or two that I can repair up, and will keep them around.)

[@periplanetamissionary]

If it had one titan weapon along with the two x slots I'd be happy I used juggernauts for decisive battles that I've set the stage for where even a powerful enemy has no choice to to hide behind their fortresses.

[@Esifex]

I find that by the time I can field one of these things, my fleets are USUALLY strong enough to go toe-to-toe with over Empires at a similar tech level, especially if I lucked out and managed to pull out ahead with my economy. And while yes I’ve noticed - and even remember from some of your older videos when you broke down the different ship classes as full comparisons - that the Juggernaut is much slower, I find that just having one trailing along behind my fleets is typically a bigger help than a hinderance. Most of what gets churned through in my forward attack fleets are my picket corvettes, and the two shipyards can build those quickly enough that I can replenish a fleet of whatever losses it incurred in the small ships, and if I got my nose particularly bloodied and don’t yet have a captured shipyard station OR I need to hold a particular system - such as one with a wormhole that leads into my or an allies territory, and so I can’t easily leave it unguarded, parking the Juggernaut there or having it catch up to the fleet protecting the wormhole is handy. Caveat, I don’t have the Overlords DLC so the hyperjump slingshot thingy isn’t a factor in my games as yet.

[@kieransligh3204]

The thing I don't like about juggernauts is it messes with the reinforce button. Its been a while since I used one, but I feel like I remember the reinforce button queuing just as many ships there as my mega shipyard.

[@nasunothecat7499]

In my experience it still does. I don't build juggernauts entirely for this reason

[@MrMarinus18]

2:40 It's actually the thing I put on it the most often. I have it stay back from the main fleet to help orbital bombardment and to help protect the armies.

[@bronzedionysus]

I wish they could be integrated into fleets.

[@archades115]

ASpec: The Juggernaut is terrible if you do not micromanage it's movement with your fleets! Me: This is Stellaris, dear boy. Micromanaging is what we do!

[@JoeCensored]

I thought I wasn't getting it with the Juggernaut because it never keeps up with my offensive fleets. I've only found it effective sitting at a choke point system helping to prevent a counter attack through an alternate route, or holding systems from an end game crisis fleet advance. That's the only time the aura gets used, and in that case can be very effective. Don't try moving one deep into enemy territory.

[@PizzaMineKing]

I have a feeling like the upcoming cloaking tech might make juggernauts useful... It appears like that would make it slower, but perhaps having a cloaked juggernaut in enemy territorry would give you a mobile homebase you can put anywhere - and once your first fleets are defeated, you can repair them at the juggernaut, which gives away its location, but the fleets being repaired are being repaired and protect it while the opponent has to move their fleets to you, and by the time that's all set and done you might be able to cloak the juggernaut again (if it can't repair while cloaked anyways) and move it somewhere else... Edit: this highly depends on how cloaking VS revealing works - if cloaking modules are in the only one module slot, that's useless. If they can replace shields though you could possibly stack enough cloaking to make revealing impossible.

[@scifithoughts3611]

I’m a juggernaut fan. I use it exactly as you described: mothership behind enemy lines that is keeping my fleets healthy. You could be right that I should instead have those alloys in battleships and cruisers, but I’ve really liked how a juggernaut can support a fleet group and keep them in the fight. I have no hard data to prove either way.

[@AdmiralKarelia]

At a certain point you have so many alloys and so much naval cap that it's like, why not?

[@MrMarinus18]

If I have it I usually put the two 'worst' aura's on it, either the self-repair or the bombardment assist cause that is what I mostly use it for.

[@PinataFreaks]

I very much agree. I usually just build one to look at it and then never use it. I can't even set my fleets to follow it because I encounter this weird bug where the ships never jump to the next system they just sit on the edge forever and never move.

[@ДмитрийТюрин-о2с]

i usually get it when i'm out of normal techss. It can be useful against big crisis fleets because of that 40% range alfa strike bonus, but requires a lot of micro

[@Wintelburst]

For Terminal Egress defense fleet it is good and 2 extra shipyards for the region if you like. Also the aura helps. SO park it in your L-Cluster door system.

[@cookiecreep9204]

Would love this as an origin, eldar cosplay of having only Craftworlds, barely controlling space, only taking resources then moving somewhere else.

[@somebodythe5th]

About the speed issue, use (t5) dark matter thrusters on the juggernaut, and (t4) impulse thrusters on the battleships and titans. This will make the juggernaut slightly faster than the battleships, allowing it to easily keep up with them. Juggernauts with the range boost aura are a vital part of my line of battle, and something I always build asap.

[@HappyFluegel]

Interesting

[@MrMatek13]

I think part of why you dislike it is personal preference. Your main problem with it is that it is too slow, but I personally don't buy into the 'war is about mobility' idea. The Juggernaut can work very well as part of a huge but slow strike fleet. The one you just send straight for their capital and watch as they cannot stop you. Its aura bonuses can make a battleship fleet much more effective, so really those bonuses are what you are investing in.

[@overlordtrazyn861]

ive always seen it as a mobile operations base, go into enemy territory, sit down somewhere that the would like to pass through, and block the route with maybe 1 supporting fleet

[@cdr29qm]

If the Juggernaut functioned as a mobile Gateway (while retaining the ability to travel through static Gateways), I would be much happier about its place in the game. You can generally capture enough starbases to do in-field repairs, but fighting in territory far from any Gateway can be a bit annoying, especially in a multi-front war. By the time you can actually build this thing, 2 shipyards is a joke; what I want is a fast connection between my dozens of existing shipyards and the front line.

[@AdmiralKarelia]

That, or they should just merge the Colossus and the Juggernaut into one ship. The Jugg isn't a great "fleet unto itself" but a planet cracker that doesn't get scared off by two corvettes would be nice.

[@alexkatc59]

@@AdmiralKarelia Actually, yes, but there is easy solution. They just must let Juggy to join your fleet.

[@Vevvev8]

I can see the Juggernaut being good against the End Game Crisis which likes to eradicate whole swaths of space and leaves nothing behind. Then it's repair capacity in deep space starts to make more sense.

[@sirfrancis8732]

I always saw the juggernaut more as a defensive tool, given its status as an effective mobile starbase. You can use it to bolster your fleet production, you can jump it on top of any enemy fleets that enter your territory, and combined with an actual starbase backing it up, it should be more than capable of repelling an enemy advance that would've otherwise taken that part of your territory.

[@worldatwar956]

I would love to see you talk about the new meat for ship designs and fleet managments. Since we just got a new overhall for it

[@j.vinton4039]

I don’t build them unless really necessary. But they do have some great uses. That “mobile forward operating base” is the best one I can think of. Being able reconfigure my Fleet on the fly is a really handy tool.

[@lakdav]

I use Juggernauts in two scenarios, mainly. One is mid-late game L-System exploration. Churn out those builders and scientists as they go suicide-scouting, while repairing fleets without having to wait the impossible time until you build and upgrade a starbase. The other one is with the +40% range aura, baiting massive crisis fleets while my main murder-blob is one jump away sitting on the hyperlane entry point. Not much use in regular empire vs empire scenarios though.

[@Luthies]

You forgot the most important argument in favour of the Juggernauts. They're cool.

[@imanukeyourface3210]

10:45 for the record, the damage boost from torpedoes is capped at +800% for 8 size ships. Basically juggernauts (and titans and colossi) are counted the same as battleships for the purposes of the new size based damage boosts. But with no point defense juggs will definitely die to torps without a screening fleet

[@apollogamer8758]

Loved your vid. I think the Juggernought would be a lot more useful if the devs upped its speed to be the same as battleships and/or they gave us an option to embed it directly into a fleet. For me the fatal flaw of the ship is that I cant stack it directly with anything else, so if or when it gets isolated it is usually done for. In my games as a proper battleship fleet is more effective than a Juggernought I tend to stick with that. When I have built them I have used them to deploy on top of a weak choke point as I build up the system station and knock up a fortress habitat. I love the ship in terms of its concept but would benefit from some tweeks in in how its use is executed.

[@rawrou]

I have to agree offensively the juggernaut is a rare niche thing, its sometimes good to let it jump into a system and support but offensively it will almost always have the jump de buff on it because there is no other way to get it where it has to go in time. The fleet base / return point is a good thing though and can help in larger or far away wars at least partially. Overall i rarely utilize them since they are just annoying to handle, but i have to agree that they can be nice for defensive support. of key some key areas. Offensively it really just takes all momentum out of your fleet.

[@Hrolfgord]

Hey they just made the juggernaut same speed as titan and battleship

[@edwardmoore7352]

The only time I’ve used a juggernaut was when I had two fallen empires on my border getting ready to awaken. So I preemptively attacked both individually. I would gather all my fleets with the juggernaut and attack the home system to wipe out fallen empire fleet. But once I won both wars. I haven’t done anything with it

[@yoshimeier3060]

I usually use it to hold down Eternal Egress together with the Star Based. I just park it there in case I need its Aura for defense.

[@HappyFluegel]

Same, or raiding fallen empires

[@darcraven01]

i use it either as a commando unit (send it solo to capture systems while my main fleets are doing the heavy fighting) or as a means of creating colony ships behind enemy lines to caprure important planets and defend said planets until i can build strong enough starbases.. also not bad as mobile defence support or a cleanup ship to clear out crystal entities and mining drones and the like (though the cleanup job could be done by anyone, if i have the juggernaut and dont have it doing anything else i'll send it out)

[@commandershepard4235]

"more strike craft than a Battlestar" I think that's my favorite line yet from you

[@TsumeShiro]

Ok so I have been playing on the test patch with the combat update. I have a juggernaut with 3 assigned fleets that never leave its side. I also have 2 other groupings of 4 fleets each that I use to push the front in war. All of these fleets have there own titan and an assortment of other ships to have total combat coverage. Now with all the context done this is the job of my juggernaut: 1. replace lost corvettes and frigates in the other fleets by being the closest shipyard. 2. Be a mobile station the AI loves to toss single fleets at while it sits on a choke point as far from the hostile ship warp in as possible. At one point I was at war with 6 other empires and the juggernaut group was able to hold off 2 of the stronger empires by themselves when stacked on top of my station while I worked to reduce the weaker empires to fully occupied wastelands. They have a single major role that the "spam neutron battleship" meta we have had for so long is going to make it hard for some players to use. Its not an attack ship, its a mobile command center and station on a warfront. Park it on a chokepoint you cant push just yet with some support fleets and let them toss ships at it.

[@aliksanon6491]

Counter point: *Big ship*

[@A_Spec]

Point taken

[@Robb_in_Oz]

i've tried using a juggernaut with all my fleets following it, sadly they don't keep up and the juggernaut will jump into a system and get taken out before the other fleets arrive as backup

[@inquisitorthomasdefinitely536]

I personally use it as a defence tool chilling moving at one defence point or another with gates makes for a good sudden force Multiplayer plus it’s ability to build makes a useful building a quick feet on the spot if you see something coming and can’t move your main fleets to to back it up

[@zaunkonig1265]

The juggernaut would only be a good ship if you couldn't repair at captured stations

[@-18]

05:20 Have you ever looked closely at the operation of reinforcing fleet? If you do it with the button, automatically, you can't see the construction process of those ships... those ships don't exist, they are missing both when they are being created and during the whole trip until they join the fleet, like when ships disappear because they have withdrawn from combat and you have to wait several YEARS for them to reappear on the other side of your empire. You can't control or intervene in that process, and it seems that the game calculates the longest possible travel time for the ship. That's why it's much better to order the construction of each ship individually and order those ships to go where you want them to go... that makes the whole process of reinforcing the fleet much faster, you can save several years if you do it that way. That's why the Juggernaut shipyard is great as you can reinforce fleets super fast.

[@VaciliNikoMavich]

Wouldn't say they are bad. I had one that i turned into a mobile factory-repar ship (basically Dark Forces's "Arc Hammer") and it worked well!

[@Reoh0z]

I mostly just use'm as a repair point for damaged fleets rotating out from the front. An expensive service but saves a lot of time either flying all the way back to friendly space or sitting around waiting for the slow ass passive repairs.

[@supamat4]

que up ships and reorder them so they all only have one day left. Jump in, fleet within weeks behind enemy. can also do it with construction ship and or colony ship to grab the rare unclaimed territory quickly

[@palladin1337]

Personally, I only deploy it when I'm invading a distant empire and keep it a jump or two away from the front lines to repair my fleets and protect any invading armies I've deployed. Probably not the most efficient strategy for invasions, but it's the one I've settled on for this particular ship.

[@13g0man]

Its good for creating the initial beach head for invasions - push it into enemy territory and capture a station. That station instantly becomes a citadel for as long as the Juggernaut is located in system, providing a stable point for fleet repairs and replenishment and a hard target to neutralise. As it is already a high priority target for defenders you can use defensive fleets and the auras to their maximum capability, and it also provides urgent ship refitting if they change ship loadout to counter yours - switching to laser/armor to counter your kinetic/armor.

[@Quintus_Fontane]

Two simple changes that would make this thing way more viable - Remove its two shipyards and give it 5 special repair/refit-only slots, and make its base speed that of a battleship.

[@cjsouza72]

I rmemeber using this as the crisis to spam menacing corvettes endlessly through every war so it was always surrounded by it's own swarm, i think it was very useful.

[@rasser80]

I only use it with jump drive installed so it can move fastere around, and use it mostly as defence ship to cut of flanks or sit and hold a system from being retaken all the time.

[@MG_Steve]

I actually tend to use them a bit, but only by camping on a gateway with a stack and jumping everything into the target system at the same time, so that the aura effects can take, erm, effect. Very useful for defence and why I always get chokepoint systems setup with a gateway. But otherwise - I wish you could put afterburners on them to speed them up, at least that way they'd keep up a bit better, at least make the same speed as a battleship, if you choose to fit 4 burners and forgo the other advantages you could have, such as field generators or so forth.

[@AnelorGalor]

I always build it and station it at my most likely attacked choke point. 40% more range means I can hold any attack forever. Also my shipyards are never close to the front lines, so that gives me refit and repair options without a retreat. when wars last longer, pushed on me and i need that ugprade right now, not in 3 month, than those juggernauts are amazing.

[@TheGmodkilla]

Alternate options for the Jugg would be cool. Like replacing the shipyards with repair yards and a mini version of the quantum catapult or a gateway instead.

[@ThePrisoner881]

I'm with you on this @Aspec. I almost never build a Juggie unless I'm bored and have tons of alloys with nothing else do build. The speed of the Juggie is what makes it so useless. Nice tip about using it as a rally point after a defeat though. Didn't think of that.

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

Due to how production queues are (mis)managed, it can completely mess up ship construction, stacking far more ships on it than would be time-efficient when ordering a massive amount of ships at once (autoreplacing ships after a huge battle for example). Better not have it at all and focus more on securing supply lines to your systems, to have your mega shipyard pump ships as fast as possible and getting them to your fleets.

[@HappyFluegel]

It can aid ver much as an offensive ship within a war. Especially one scenario comes up often with my playstyle and the first time especially it really can help having the 40 increase in range. Raiding a fallen empire that usually has one big fleet sitting around. Park outside, declare war and have all fleets travel there at the same time or jump in.

[@leakingamps2050]

I love the jugg with arty battleships. Best way to take out stronger fleets, or repeatedly take on multiple similarly sized fleets back to back, with minimal casualties.

[@xenoplayz4524]

Honesty they should boost the speed of this thing allow us to put boosters on it. However its useful for reparing ships on offensive wars on a choke point if the ai hasn't put a station in a key area. I like to block an area as i use fleets to clean up the area then repair and move on to prevent random ai ships attack from behind. Can be useful for defensive operations because of its aura simply use it as another starbase in a key system and leave it there.

[@korimiller379]

The only thing I really use Jugs as a 'forward base' in cases where I have my fleets outside of my territory. A place to repair fleets between battles and re-enforce minor loses in locations where there isn't space stations. Though I will grant they only really get use during Scourge and other 'wipe out all structures' like Fanatic Purifiers/Exterminators/Khans.

[@jasonballinger530]

I still think they need to add alternate weapons technology once you unlock Titans, so you can make Titan guns in different weapons technology, but you have to research them first. The Juggernaut should also have more modular fitting like other ships, so you can customize the makeup of what weapon sizes you want to equip. The Juggernaut should have a special module in the "A" slots that speed up the build and repair/refit time of the two hangars by ... like 20% so you can really turn the Juggernaut into a useful remote shipyards.

[@FlorianBased]

I use the Juggernaut together with my fleet for big battles and then get everything repaired & let it take the stations with 1.6k defense or something while my main fleet advances. through the well fortified ones. Especially if I'm playing tall (so my Territory is very small) the station for those late mid game upgrades is mostly far away because my Federation is attacking some dude on the other side of the Galaxy...

[@tyrongkojy]

Since it can NEVER keep up with the rest of my fleet by the time I get it I use it like I use Bubbles, but with more utility. While my main fleets hold a junction system or otherwise attack, my juggernaut moves off the "main" path to take those smaller systems, as well as, obviously, providing front line (or as close as its slow ass will carry it) reinforcement support. It can easily hold its own there, and if the attack isn't TOO far from wherever I had it stationed, it may even provide an additional 30k power to a battle. Not usually, though.

[@tidusffx1147]

Look its a fairly good defensive vessel set it up near an escape point on your choke points and embrace hitting the enemy when they enter the chokepoint rinse and repeat as needed using the shipyards to repair and replace attrition as you can eventually it will fall but its use is strong for that its essentially anchoring one end of your defensive line while your war fleets swing around and bring the hammer down

[@csongor242]

My juggernaut pretty much saved one of my games once. I played with (maybe) 5x crisis and they spawned pretty early and right next to my empire. I was building the Aetherophasic Engine, so all I had to do was hold out. I parked my juggernaut on the opposite side of a choke point system with my fleets and they were able to annihilate the crisis fleets from across the system, while they were busy with my space station and get repaired, without me having to micro my fleets back and forth from the station to the edge of the system. But even than I was barely able to finish the Engine and blow up the galaxy, but they held out just long enough.

[@davidthorp01]

The only time the distance modifier really would work is defensive posture. Set it in a large system, with other supporting fleets (like Terminal Egress) and boom, instant range modifier to make every single craft alpha strike capable. You then initiate. Otherwise? I don’t see much value in it, hence why I rarely build it. I use it to flex my economy muscles from time to time, but it’s ultimately not that big of a deal. In addition, I don’t ever ever want it’s shipyards active. It does nothing for me, and provides me with none of the bonuses star-bases have. At current it’s underwhelming and not worth the investment.

[@Dealve]

The way I like to use them is basically parking it in some strategic system in an invasion so my fleets will regroup there as well as basically being an additional starbase in that system

[@diegoakadisciple8336]

Its pretty useful when fighting a crisis like the pretorhyn on high crisis strengths. Those shipyards are invaluable when trying to actively invade crisis conquered space. also the weapons range buff is great.

[@alexkatc59]

Does not right now Juggernaut have the same speed as battleships and titans?

[@A_Spec]

Ye, they patched it after this video came out.

[@keitadarkwolf2591]

I always build them... but I can't say I have ever used it. It's too fragile to be useful on its own, and since it can't join a fleet, it's just one more thing to manage. I usually can't be bothered, so it just sits there. A giant power-projecting white elephant.

[@SupCom78]

i agree its specific if the Juggernaught is usefull but i always build one if i can for 3 reasons. 1 to expensively conquer star bases (yeah i know but its so cool looking) 2 to defend my ubgraded Starbases and Defence Fleet with extra fire power and the Aura Bonus and 3 to avoid ships fly all the way home i set the Jugger as the home base and can repair the fleets that survived. and mebe a 4 reason as a prestige object.

[@blake7297]

I've found with some amoeba regenerating hull augments, the Jugg can literally tank a fleet almost its own size infinitely and like others said, its great for absorbing alpha strikes because it can survive them and by default your fleets which jump in after will still end up closer to the front taking pressure off the Jugg in the middle of combat.

[@Nomadic_Gaming]

juggs have built in armor that isnt displayed in the design screen click it and check its build or just look at its stats youll see even w no armor parts it has armor also given its range and range mod its great to sit on a bastion station where u want max defense modules vs ship yards and it plus the station will be able to engage enemies at range and just be a wall that is insanely hard to get to and take the point about a jugg being used to snipe stations is also the other use ive had for it its slow so i just send it to take stations as my fleets hit enemy fleets as itll just trod along sniping any stations on its path

[@kaligath6616]

Its a auxiliary ship that you leave in the previous system as a means to fall back to not a ship that should be used in direct combat unless left with no option this is a good method because you can jump ships to it and still benefit from the cooldown bonus

[@lukegranato7457]

The juggernaut is essentially a parade float, looks awesome, but yeah, by late game, it's particularly defenseless by itself. I have used it as a trailing fleet behind my vanguard to overtake outposts and small planets with an accompanying fleet of armies to storm the planets. All in all I was really hopeful that the juggernaut becomes more powerful in future updates bc it's still a cool show piece, but if it becomes a standalone power house on the battlefield, I'd be ecstatic. What would probably be overkill and awesome would be if the juggernaut could be a world destroyer/ pacifier/ assimilating war machine.

[@limontree476]

granted I only play single player and not even on GA, but I tend to slap the jump drive aura on it and if i need to quickly relocate to an unexpected spot the reduced jump CD means they'll be at full power again quicker. It definitely needs more than 2 shipyards to do what it was meant for.

[@KrisHunter216]

Juggs need more love, at least with the giga structures mod you can repair random ones around the map, so when im invading i mean saving my neighbors i have a jug and a small fleet (usually corvettes/frigates/cruiser mix) parked in each system with a planet/chokepoint until my armies arrive