U.S. and China: Edging Toward the Brink?

Niall Ferguson, the celebrated historian who predicted Cold War II in 2018, has assembled the sharpest minds from both sides of the Bamboo Curtain for a discussion on the future of U.S.-China relations.
David Daokui Li
Andrew Erickson
Niall Ferguson
Keyu Jin
Matt Pottinger
Now in its 20th year, the Aspen Ideas Festival is the Aspen Institute’s signature summer public event. From June 23-June 29, 2024 more than 300 leaders and innovators gather in the Rocky Mountains to engage in deep and inquisitive discussion of the issues that shape our lives and challenge our times, spanning politics, business, science, the arts, education, and more. #AspenIdeas
For more information about the Aspen Ideas Festival, visit www.aspenideas.org.

[@davidlai399]

Yeah China is building up its capabilities because it is being surrounded by 300 US bases in the Pacific. Google search is free.

[@ryanwalters6184]

Google searches show those bases brought China their freedom. 😂

[@lynnelee4390]

B.s. bet u don't say the same about Russia being surrounded. China is the enemy. China is laying claim to the entire South china sea, and that's just the beginning. They intend to control the waterways, and assuming u live in the u.s., u can kiss ur lifestyle goodbye, prepare for the stone age. Or u might be part of the 50cent army

[@tonym842]

​@@ryanwalters6184Complete lie

[@accountantthe3394]

​@@ryanwalters6184freedom...from degeneracy of the West 😂

[@GeoScorpion]

Google search is free... except in China.

[@kaimingraymondchoi9909]

In the heads of the Americans:- "As Americans, we could do that and that. But it does not mean Americans would allow other nations such as China to do the same. " They said Chinese are rapidly building up their military power.....Obviously he has not spent time to check the total military spending of the two countries in the last ten years. A nation with 300 bases surrounding another nation expects that nation to refrain from military spending. No wonder that there are conflicts.

[@onetwokaafour]

Found the Chinese bot

[@yaoliang1580]

​@@onetwokaafourdispute with him n prove which part of his speech is wrong instead of barking aimlessly

[@ssuwandi3240]

Well when the head of CGTN preached in WEF that China has been the sole buyer of Iran's oil since 2018 and a third of oil is also outsourced from Iraq, then casually continued with "out tech is so amazing to help green energy'😊 Thank God Uncle Sam ain't that stupid esp listening to this Prof "Japan's submitted". Abs ridiculous at that level of degree

[@Wunderpus-photogenicus]

Last time we checked, that hegemony regime has installed over 700 military bases globally.

[@sportsonwheelss]

Nicely displayed the American education system and the quality of people to complete on the international stage. ​@@onetwokaafour

[@lwty]

Keyu stated that young Chinese are highly influenced by Western culture. That’s true. If you visit Chinese cities, Starbucks and McDonalds are flourishing, Shanghai Disney is packed with people. But these young people are not naturally will be friends of US politicians as one panelist expected. Many of these young people do not like CPC, which is natural when there are so many restrictions. But, when they break out of the Great FIre Wall and find out so many misinterpretations and distortions of the facts on China, most of them gradually become strong supporters of CPC. Irony…

[@snowwhite9790]

The same logic can apply that CCP are highly influenced by the west since Xi is wearing western suits.

[@user-wn4qx6jx5x]

So true.

[@lagrangewei]

if you go to mcdonald in china, they sell chinese food. rather than Chinese turning American, it is American that is turning Chinese.

[@pardeeptandon]

Chinese are wise people.

[@simonnilsson5356]

Interesting… any material I can read more about this? Essays, books, interviews or articles? Thanks

[@mayerrathore8132]

The Chinese and Russians leaders are successful in improving there country economy, so why you are moaning

[@thecomment9489]

The US regime hates that. If your country is improving your country basically has to pay extortion money to the mafia boss the US regime.

[@friedhelmschroter8124]

What is your criteria for "are successful in improving there country economy"? And more important than a look onto the past, which actual activities do you see to continue such "success" into the future? On Russia the economic future is very difficult to predict, yet being cut off from the West will have negative consequences. In my impression also Russian mentality has not really followed developments in the West like for example same gender marriage resulting in a greater cultural difference Russia - Europe/the West than in the past. Also on China I think recent US actions like blocking the access to the most advanced Semiconductors will show their full negative consequences only in future and Europe is at this moment undecided if to follow US in fully blocking China (all media/politicians are working hard to built up the negative mood for this) or if to continue current level with China. Yes, in the past China advanced extremely, yet THE PREREQUISITE for this was US positive mood and this has changed in the last 10 years first to negative and if I do understand recent actions even to a certain level of hostility and this will give China larger headaches, yet again the end result is not clear yet as China progresses to issue many new well trained students and in how far these will be able to catch up to the West under the condition of US being hostile on China needs to be seen. In addition Asia is a natural market for Chinese products as long as China does not make too much enemies with for example the 9-dash line causing countries like India, Vietnam, Philippines, Thailand rather to side with the West against China.

[@mikef6399]

@@friedhelmschroter8124 If you only have a second grader's intelligence, you will be able to acknowledge China's success in the last 4 decades to advance the country's economy and more importantly improve its citizen's living standard. The US political elites certain sees that. That's exactly the reason why they are coming out with all kinds of shady policies trying to slow or put China down. Guess what, they won't be successful because China has competent leaders not criminals or old guys with dementia running the country in the US.

[@dfsdh432v9]

by invading other countries,

[@AntonDev-cw3kc]

In Russia, GDP has been stagnating for 11 years and industrial production for 17 years. Of course, this is the main reason for the state’s internal and external aggression. The main hoax that the Chinese are trying to preach is the uniqueness, peculiarity of their nation and misunderstandings by Europeans. In fact, all economists and historians see is an attempt by the aristocracy to maintain its power and privileges (state rents, castles and mistresses) through military rhetoric. It happens that this leads to wars and the current war is just one example.

[@samliew6610]

Looks like the other side is just too obsessed with the Chinese leader, not all the good things he/government had done and still doing.

[@friedhelmschroter8124]

Yes, from a Chinese perspective absolutely correct/possible to state. Yet from a Western perspective the point is to avoid WWIII to start at all and sorry to say, but Xi Jinping has given not a clear proof (this would be the start of WWIII), yet such strong signals that US has decided to change its long term positive mood on China within rather short time by 180° first to negative and I think now even to a certain level of hositility. From my side I cannot understand why Xi Jinping dared to do this (may be mutual misunderstanding, yet he got clear US warning and despite this continued!), yet as a European being quite neutral with my background I do side 80% with US against what China does want or has done/is doing, while only on 20% I side with China against US. You can use here the word obsessed, yet I think it does not really match as the US is taking permanently new firm positions (reacts on changes in China) and fills this new position case after case with actions where for example the recent 100% tariffs on electric cars (including Chinese production in Mexico!) can only be interpreted as hostile. On the somehow positive side: US announced it is willing to continue issuing Visa's for, if I remember correct, up to 300.000 students and would also like to see more US students to go to China (this shrinked recently to only 800).

[@geopoliticsfan]

I wish Kishore Mahbubani was in this panel. So tell these two Americans their reality. Every American question is answered with facts. Only Kishore Mahbubani sir tells Americans their real times. Next time when discussing the subject of China and America. So Kishore said to Mahbubani Sir. These two Americans will know.😅😅😅

[@slowtine]

Kishore’s assumptions are based on China becoming a democracy…

[@donaldjoseph3903]

Kishore has no credibility with a serious audience. He is just a good entertainer singing China praises 👏 🙌 😅

[@lagrangewei]

@@donaldjoseph3903 Kishore has more diplomatic experience than any of these monkeys. if he has no credibility, what are these guy which are only deputies with a far shorter career in governance?

[@geopoliticsfan]

@@donaldjoseph3903 When Kishore Mahbubani starts speaking. So in front of them western analyst journalists behave like American expert pet dog. Whenever these so called western experts start speaking in front of Kishore Mehboobani, Kishore Mehboobani would rebuke them with full facts. Because they have answers to all their questions.😊😂😂 Dumb

[@kirkhoo7456]

This panel (or circus) and its ignorant moderator do not deserve Kishore’s wisdom.

[@liewkinglim]

Enough of the century of humiliation. Enough of bullies.

[@Ping-cg6qi]

Enough of warmongering. Enough of industrial-military complex promotion.

[@SonuDR007]

Here is the CCP Chinese Bot

[@veronmath3264]

For calling the whole Country CCP doesn't make sense or it's showing that the Westerners still racist about other Countries's eternal issues

[@friedhelmschroter8124]

I see 99% beeing CCP (People's Republic of China) and 1% being democratic (Republic of China). Insided the People's Republic of China there existed also the special case of Hongkong, but Hongkong got crashed down and in mainland nobody dares to object CCP (this is not healthy/good).

[@dss2mtm]

Hi @Veronmath. I think what the US speakers were trying to say was more nuanced in that they meant "the whole country is CCP (govt led)" which would be true.

[@friedhelmschroter8124]

I think you know what democracy does mean (every few years all population will select either a party and/or a new president to guide it into the future - for this the party/potential presidents does need to present its/their thinking/ideas and everybody like you personally do take a decision who looks to be best for next few years and all decisions are counted to determine who will actually be the winning party and/or the new president). As Western people we do understand that the way the rulership is determined in China is working in a completely different way. Not ALL PEOPLE (as in a democracy), but just the CCP delegates do determine who will be the new leader. Such completely different way to determine is described by the rather neutral wording "CCP leadership", other may exaggerate more as "CCP dictatorship" and mostly exaggerated would be "1-person Xi Jinping dictatorship", but in reality we just express by such wording a feeling of how we believe China is ruled and decisions are taken, yet it is quite impossible to understand what is really ongoing inside the CCP and how the several persons ruling China do interact, can and do control each other. I cannot see any racist intention at all in such wording, but rather the try to describe China's system as exact as possible in comparison to Western systems. Please note, democracy is not democracy but you have a wide range of differences when looking into the details. A first 3 major separation could be basic democracy (all people taking all decisions together, an ideal, a dream reached best by Switzerland), parliamentary democracies (the most prominent example is UK, but also Japan, Germany, ...) and presidential democracies (2 prominent examples are US and France). You knowing much better than Western people how the rulership system is working in China are welcome to propose better wording for China's rulership system, yet I believe you will fail to find better wording than the rather polite/neutral "CCP leadership" or the critic expressing "CCP dictatorship" (for Western people dictatorship is generally considered to be bad seeing the extreme experience of Hitler Germany and Military Japan around WWII, but also many other like italian Mussolini, spanish Franco or several countries in South America at certain times, ...).

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

So strange listening to these adults that apparently represents their countries views yet it’s like school kids arguing about who is friends with who who said what to whom and who is to blame for what! Can’t we please for god sake have grownups at last in humanity? Seeing that we apparently evolve and we have so many with so much education? Humanity is sick and tired of warmongering

[@friedhelmschroter8124]

US has positioned itself to maintain a global order. And US has created this new global order after it won WWII. In the context to maintain this global order US needs permanently to adjust and fine-position on existing or new conflicts. A recent hot spot of adjustment and even completely new positioning is China. In this adjustments a lot of discussions are ongoing where people are asked to present their private opinion or the opinion of the organisation they are working for. The country position can only be expressed by people authorized to do so, like president, minister or official spokes persons. I do not fully agree on "Humanity is sick and tired of warmongering". I think there is a very small percentage of warmongers (clearly visible on Ukraine) and there are quite a lot of people who are willing to fight for what they understand is their advantage or right/justice or global order or .... Having different views depending on your history, education and experience/own thinking the result is in worst case just contradictory views which again in worst case can result in gun fighting/war. I personally believe any person as strong as it claims to be peaceful can be brought into a situation where this person will fight. In this sense the correct target is to mimize fighting as much as possible, yet it is very difficult to see how this can work (Germany having lost after WWI also WWII and similar Japan having experienced the lost WWII and the power of atomic bombs are such case having established quite a strong sentiment against fight, preferring discussion/compromise, yet on Ukraine politicians/media worked hard to change this peaceful German mood and I understand similar is ongoing in Japan with growing fear on China becoming a giant -quite the contrary in US where people think the might of US military in both, attack as well as protection allows them to do whatever they think is appropriate).

[@Wunderpus-photogenicus]

The two non-Asian guests know in their heart/mind that they are lying, however they are skilful in hiding that, very skilful.

[@Hina749]

On the contrary, the two Chinese guests are lying through their teeth. The non-Asian panelists enjoying free speech and speak their minds. t The Chinese panelists have more difficult jobs They cannot low straight out since the audience would not believe them but they cannot tell the truth either because they still want to go back to China and operate there.

[@user-yw4rx6kb3r]

I've noticed the trend of think tanks talking about china and it's flaws. Nothing about itself at all.

[@aihong2971]

Afghanistan was not a war game. It was war. America lost.

[@tonym842]

It was an illegal war of aggression by the US empire.

[@robbrown4621]

Nonsense. We got Bin Laden and then we should have went home. Trying to help the Afghan people was a mistake but hindsight is always 20/20. The very same policy seems to be winning in Ukraine.

[@camerond]

@@robbrown4621what’s happening in Ukraine is “winning” to you?

[@calicalibre1999]

America won the battle fight but lost the ideology and overall mindset of a backward country. America also made billions in Afghanistan and gave away 65% of it back mostly to Afghanistan governments and warlords. Many in Afghan governments and warlords got rich ( including Taliban leaders). That country will forever be a basket 😂

[@robbrown4621]

@@camerond Yes. They are fighting for their lives and the life of their nation. They are holding their own and have prevented Putin from taking Ukraine. Yes, that is a huge victory, so far. Also Ukraine has large defeated the Russian navy and that's without Ukraine even having a navy. :)

[@waynegore5291]

Kurt Campbell said chinese student should study humianity and social science only. Tom Cotton said Chinese student should study Sharkspear only. I have to say those americans lost their minds, became dilusional.

[@GuzzarAwan]

But Chinese govt and parents think otherwise 😂

[@ssuwandi3240]

The Uniparty got no clues in Geopolitics. The Russians prob lit the fires here and there😊

[@friedhelmschroter8124]

In my understanding US has developed over long time something that I would call "a responsibility for a global order based on its power". China, thinking it is as powerful as US, but not entitled to do same as US as well as how Americans discuss about global order/how to use their power for this may get resolved by Chinese thinking American are delusional. Yet in my thinking the situation is vice versa. China is economically already a giant and will grow up militarily also, yet China thinking in the sense of "global responsibility" is a novum for China (China never had to do it in its long history, but China only knows it has to serve its own interest. Reckonising that size/power means also global responsibility is a point where China lacks a lot of the development US has done/gone since the French Revolution fixed LIBERTÉ, EGALITÉ and FRATERNITÉ as key cornerstones.

[@mikef6399]

@@friedhelmschroter8124 By "responsibility for a global order based on its power", did you mean the responsibility to launch countless wars and killing millions of innocent peole all over the world and responsibility supporting genocidal government?

[@friedhelmschroter8124]

@@mikef6399 NO, by "responsibility for a global order based on its power" I do mean a kind of global police that is arranging/acting all over the world to i) let the world function and ii) get the world more peaceful ideally by deterring the start of wars but also by being able in case a conflict is already ongoing to arrange a decisive decision in favor of the global order (one can claim this may be a dream wish, yet in my view I can see quite some elements for this dream wish present in US actions/decisions in the last 80/90 years). The US could have easily decided on WWII, OK let the Germans and the Japanese go ahead, we are keeping out and do just enjoy life. You may imagine how our world today would look like if US would have taken such decision. US decided to engage and stop/defeat these 2 powers. In next step they had to decide "What to do with defeated Japan and Germany", after WWI the winners UK and France put high yearly reparations payments on Germany and in addition military recovery was hindered greatly. In my view THE REASONS that Germany elected an extreme character like Hitler by 1932 which ultimately led to WWII, because after his first successes Hitler saw no reason why not to continue his until 1941 for Germany extremely successful way. And here I see one great point of "responsibility" because the US decided to transform both countries into democracies and even kick-started an economic recovery which by the internal strength/power of the Japanese as well as the German society/mentality led to what we can see today, both Japan and Germany in size and population rather small, but well known globally by their products, still occupy position 3 and 4 in global GDP ranking and both are extremely peaceful countries which had a positive influence on all their neighbours. Another key point of "responsibility" was the US will to crash down the concept of colonies which brought many many people on this globe the freedom to determine their own way. What you are speaking about are rather the negative effects, because beside of arranging and maintaining the global order, US got so impressed by its power that it misused it and nobody had the power to stop US from doing this. As you claim such misuse caused death and pain to many millions. Yet about 1 billion Western people do enjoy a rather confortable and safe life and if I could continue my dream expresse above I would be quite happy for China to become similar powerful as US, as this will add a completely different view of 1.400 million peopley with a many century long history which could result in one hindering the other power to do bad things. A global hegemon is basically a DICTATOR (exactly what US does hate), yet US sticks to be a single hegemon/dictator and I am not sure China is ready/willing to become a 2nd global hegemon in long term (for me it looks China is emphasizing only on its own matters, but rejects to bear global responsibility completely). By the way by counting all the people killed by USSR, all the people killed by China mainly in China's cultural revolution and all the people killed by USA, I am not sure which order would result (my gut feeling would say USSR is highest and China may be lowest, yet still in the millions and the way of counting is especially on US quite complex), but I may be wrong on USSR because its most terrible actions happened before WWII.

[@haolanzhang4665]

Andrew and Matt have no idea what they were talking about. They don't have any concrete statistics. What their opinions are based on assumptions and ideologies instead of facts. They performed so badly like naive high school students. Is that the intelligence level they can achieve?

[@Wunderpus-photogenicus]

My friend who got fired for doing unethical things at work constantly displays grudges against his previous employer, and openly makes up false accusations too. We understand you, Mr. Hawkish guest (Andrew?).

[@bohsu182]

Those two American guys just BS... they're not same scholars as these two Chinese... they're not in the same level...

[@friedhelmschroter8124]

Yes, there is quite a difference in the way of speaking between the 2 Americans and the 2 Chinese. But this is not BS (look at the titles of their books), but quite exactly and well showing the conflict between US and China (if both Chinese would be replaced by Americans having the subject of social interaction (Keyu) and economy (David) and both Chinese would represent the subject of warfare (Andrew) and China's stance on Ukraine (Matt) I would guess your wording being an American would simply reverse to "those 2 Chinses guys just BS". And looking at this conflict from the outside I am not able to decide, is the Chinese thinking correct or is the US thinking correct (in my view on this world I am coming to mixed results, on certain cases favorizing US, but on other cases favorizing China's view). Is the diplomatic and military terror China applies on Taiwan just a peaceful sign of China wanting to have the full re-unification (oppressing CCP rulership on Taiwan by peace) or are these as US understands early signs China will make war against Taiwan, China will revolt against the global order imposed by US? (on this item I side with US, yet I support China as no progress on Taiwan to proceed on separation is allowed/supported) Is China's insistance on the history based 9-dash line for some border disputes a clear revolt against the US imposed order that after WWII only rational reasons should be used to clarify border disputes? (on this item I also side with US, because history based reason could lead to re-emergence of colonial system, many European countries could again claim rulership as exercised in history) Do the NATO activies in Ukraine match to the US imposed global order? (on this item I side with China, NATO activies in Ukraine are mainly to get huge advantages for NATO and weaken/harm Russia strongly, which did not only risk the ultimate goal PEACE, but acutally resulted in a war on which I see 80% of the responsibility lying in US based on their stubborn insistance to get Ukraine/Georgia into NATO which is for me a clear violation of the global order as US has imposed as part of it a thinking that US fixed for themselves in the Monroe doctrine -no adversary military on US border!) Do US imposed tariffs match the global order of fair free trade? (for me clearly no and therefore I side on this item with China, a major goal of the tariffs is AMERICA FIRST, the target to contain China, to stay economically No.1. Yet in contrary to some Chinese understanding the danger of losing economic No.1 position is THE REASON I think it is only a major part of such US actions, the other major parts are the conflicts around Taiwan/Ukraine and other conflicting items all getting intermingled.)

[@dfsdh432v9]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@ml2k8]

Lmao. What two incredible war loving people fighting two incredible peace loving Chinese. Sad.

[@user-ln5pi6zp2t]

General MacArthur underestimated the Chinese in the Korean war. Looks like history will repeat itself

[@davidlai399]

“Don’t worry what China is doing wrong, but worry about what it is doing right.” Western pundits obsess over the same recycled bad news and then one day wake up to find their industries methodically taken over one by one.

[@yaoliang1580]

Besides the Chinese, they underestimated the Vietnamese, the Afghans n now the Russians. The reason why the US keep repeating the same mistakes is bcos they profit from their endless wars as whether they win or lose, those elites who have huge investments in the MIC are laughing their way to the bank. As usual it's their brainwashed public who have to bear the brunt of the burden

[@philipwong895]

Anywhere in the world, if there is a border dispute, it is usually the result of a line drawn by an Englishman; if it is an internal dispute, it is usually the US fueling it. Difference in implementation of divide and conquer strategy. The 'Arsenal of Democracy' produces 40 percent of the world's weapons. It is a very profitable business model in which other countries buy these weapons to fight each other. The key is maximizing profits without shedding US blood by inducing conflicts between and within countries outside the USA. One client is eager to spend AUD 368 billion to buy a few high-quality used nuclear-powered submarines. This business model's critical components are NATO, QUAD, ANZUS, Five Eyes, AUKUS, and MCC (Mutual Cross-Service Agreement). The US makes the rules, and the US and their friends do not have to follow them. Since WWII, the United States has started 201 wars, overthrew 36 foreign leaders, killed or attempted to kill 50, dropped bombs in 30 countries, and interfered in 86 foreign elections. To make the world safe for democracy, the US has caused the deaths of tens of millions of people in its conflicts in Korea, Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria. The CIA was involved in covert operations that resulted in mass killings of communists in over 22 countries, 500,000 to 2,000,000 Indonesian civilians disappeared in 1965-1966.

[@friedhelmschroter8124]

True, in some part of the Europe colonized world arbitrary border drawing caused later stress. This border drawing is however simply a fact of the past that can and should be criticized, but that cannot be corrected any more by Europeans/the West. And how the border disputes got and get resolved later is in most cases outside of the influence of the West, but rather a matter of 2 countries who had/have to decide if they solve such clearly by Europeans caused conflicts in a peaceful way by discussion and mutual agreement or by war. I fully agree, too much money is going into military especially in the US (this does motivate US somehow to use such expensive military for their advantage and it slows down the extremely important and mandatory effort in CO2 reduction), yet for general global peace it is nice to have some power that is such powerful that it can be considered to be the global police. It is not clear to me how China does like to position into this global order while it is growing up now militarily or in how far China wants to be a second global hegemon, this means reform the US created global order radically. The US made rules of global order are largely followed by all countries, yet you have specific conflicts where US fails to act as global police and rather targets its own advantage and countries may reject this global order as US takes the right to adjust/change rules again rather to its advantage or they would do better on different rules. Can you please provide the source where most of the global conflicts are listed (I think 248) and judged for the initiator. I understand this list was prepared by China and I would like to check if my knowledge base does match to China judgement. I have read some summary here english.news.cn/20220902/735703a45cfd458791179d4c0a80e727/c.html and my general impression, China's summary has a strong bias to select the words/write the sentences so, that US can be claimed, but several key facts are not mentioned (in general it is just acceptable to me). It is well known that US did and is doing bad things, yet the scale may be exaggerated and in my impression US improves/reduced their activity in recent times quite a lot. I was watching how US would position on Israel counter-attack on Iran, after Iran had retailiated on Israel with some 300 attack objects and I was strongly surprised to see just an radar got destroyed in Iran which is for me clearly the result of strong pressure of US on Israel. Many bad things/major wars were related to US will to contain communism (and were responses to communist war or rebel revolution), while the middle east looks to be dominated by securing oil supply and safety of Israel. Communism is mostly gone, Europe is peaceful (I consider Ukraine to be an exception), South America is also getting more and more stable, Asia is quite stable and Africa is at this moment not important enough to engage. So the key potential conflict everybody is looking on, yet nobody is really understanding is China - US. On Yugoslavia I have quite some details and the killing that was ongoing there needed to be stopped in some way which I would consider as a police action to re-establish global order, yet it was clearly against the interest of Russia who had a close realationship with the Serbs and in this sense to the advantage of NATO. By its engagement in Yugoslavia however, NATO lost its right to call itself peaceful (an organisation doing an active military attack cannot be considered as peaceful, independent of the goals it intended to achieve).

[@slly4276]

China military built up is mainly for defensive purposes as US military bases ,from Pine Gap and Darwin in Australia to the Phillipines.Jeju island in S.Korea and Okinawa in Japan form a noose around China . 80 % of China trades passes through the South China Sea and the straits of Malacca. An ambush on this region will strangle the Chinese economy. One wonder why the US which is thousand of miles away from this region should shamefully dominate this region by coercing countries to stand by their sides. America is notoriously famous for saying either “ you are with us or against us.” If this is not bullying, I do not know what it is.

[@friedhelmschroter8124]

@@slly4276 "China military built up is mainly for defensive purposes ..." ==> NATO does claim the same, but looking into past attack onto Yugoslavia and especially actual Ukraine and what is ongoing there why, you can come also to the opposite conclusion (at least Russia does). Most defense military is also usable for attack. Anyhow, if US has built up a super military in my thinking US has no right on China to claim built-up of military. "One wonder why the US which is thousand of miles away from this region ..." ==> US is the global hegemon and it has allies in this region it is willing to support. Natural US allies (same language) are Australia and New Zealand. Important allies are Japan, the much smaller South-Korea and the most difficult and smallest Taiwan. In my understanding also Philippines and Thailand have some kind of closer relationship with US and US currently checks with India if there is interest. As global hegemon US has an essential interest to avoid any kind of sea traffic block and this is especially true for the South China Sea (same goal as China). In contrast to the dead USSR US had never a need to coerce countries to be an ally. The key reason for this is, the ally status does provide quite a bunch of advantages like US good mood, being protected by the US maintained global order but also by US directly to the extent agreed or US considers necessary to maintain the global order. Required to carry the responsibilty (and cost) to maintain the global order (I see no other country able and willing to carry this responsibility) US needs to act on certain behaviour in a determined way. However, I agree on certain activities it is difficult to see the global order interest, but an US interest is clear (sometimes US is misusing its global hegemon status/power for its personal advantage). If China has found a way to act friendly on countries rebelling/fighting against China maintaining the global order I would be happy if China would apply such way to teach the West. In my understanding the global standard is some kind of police to keep the system running, to maintain the order and this police is required occasionally to apply force IF .... -if you continue to act to disturb the order, yet the applied force should be reasonable and not excessive.

[@jsyo9639]

Oh, Matt is exactly that frenetic hyperventilating self, this guy is so far down the rabbit hole paranoia if ever there’s one. Needs to see a psychiatrist with mental

[@olderchin1558]

2 Economist vs 2 Warmongers

[@anwiycti1585]

More like hypocrites vs genuine brave souls 😂😂

[@ssuwandi3240]

All are hypocrites except the past US President didn't need to crawl to WEF or cry about sanctions to access NATO markets

[@Wunderpus-photogenicus]

Matt: if all of your neighbors are armed to the teeth surrounding your home (military bases) and constantly displaying serious hostility (disguised as “freedom of navigation”, or “protection of democracy”), what would you do?

[@laminpapan2650]

Matt is a disappointing Chinese hawk. Kept quoting Congress as his basis when the American congress are the root cause of the world's problem. He can run for congress. To even quote Pompey shows his competency when the world know Pompey is a liar and he openly admited.

[@olderchin1558]

Pottinger is CIA. Pompey was probably his boss. The cover of reporter is a favorite for the CIA.

[@GeoScorpion]

Pottinger is a CCP hawk not a China hawk. Most of us like China and the Chinese people, but rightly see the CCP as a threat to the world as well as a catastrophically oppressive and incompetent force against the Chinese people, themselves. It is as Feudal as the Manchu Q'ing and all other empirical dynasties that ever existed. It became what it rebelled against, but with none of the restraints and with no moral compass.

[@GeoScorpion]

@@olderchin1558 lol! Potinger is a pain in the butt for the CIA. I hardly doubt they cut him a paycheck. If the CIA had the budget to pay everyone who is accused of being part of the CIA (I've been accused many times and WISH I got paid!) they would have a bigger budget than the US military.

[@zhanwenchen9238]

Ideologue be ideologuin’. Or should I say, operative be operatin’

[@GeoScorpion]

@@zhanwenchen9238 I think y ou should lay off the alcohol before you hit the send button...

[@veronmath3264]

Let's talk about national security instead of attacking China

[@Jeffrey2323]

China has stand up, America. Get used to it.

[@pardeeptandon]

What makes the host have the right to tell others how to live and conduct themselves publically.

[@franciskenyi3139]

Where are the Chinese in this topic, when you're talking about yourself in this topic then don't mention the Chinese. What you need to know is, if Taiwan is not part of China then come and fight for it, but if you can't stand the Vietnam Afghanistan Somalia and now at this moment you said or we will not fight the Russian it will be bad for the world, today the power of Chinese is not what you know in Korea war what is it like today.

[@LaBambaCL]

there are two people who do not talk about what's wrong in their own country, what needs to be improved, they only talk about more war, repeat propaganda words.

[@friedhelmschroter8124]

Please note, the subject of this video is China - US. To find out how US thinks about their internal problems you need to find another video.

[@LaBambaCL]

@@friedhelmschroter8124 please note: who is the next US? what is their agenda? it's quite related. talking in isolation is peeing in the wind.

[@friedhelmschroter8124]

@@LaBambaCL I do not think the outcome of the US election will have a huge influence (but one never knows seeing the erratic characteristic of Trump -suddenly coming up with completely new idea). My critic on your comment was related to the fact, that you do request/claim something that is out of the scope of this video. Another example to make my point clear: If the subject is "US Dollar" and you would claim "but why is the Euro not talked about" your comment is simply nonsense (does not help, give any useful information), because it should be talked about the USD and not about Euro.

[@LaBambaCL]

@@friedhelmschroter8124 i was making a direct reply to your comment. perhaps you are not listening to all the speakers of this forum. i believe my orig post stands...two talk war, two talk relationship. two sections of the talk are titled xi, trmup/biden.

[@friedhelmschroter8124]

@@LaBambaCL Sorry, may be some misunderstanding in my side, yet I totally fail to catch what you want to say. Going back to the original, I think to comment "there are two people who do not talk about what's wrong in their own country, what needs to be improved, ..." (despite not saying I understood you mean the 2 Americans) Is nonsense, because the subject of discussion is conflict US-China, how it started, why and to look into several aspects more in detail and everybody brought his or his organisations points/thinkings and there were several details given that I was not aware of despite trying to understand better what is ongoing between US and China since months. The lady did bring a lot of good general trends/info on mood existing in China by well understandable concrete examples and her goal was obviously to soften the hostility that got built up by advocating for speak to each other quite often to understand each other better. The first American gave several examples of how US does see and interpret the situation in a neutral yet clear language addressing the point. The 3rd man like the lady did bring up many good arguments and facts to soften the conflict. The 2nd American did frontally attack China on several points suppressing the fact that US has already done same. To claim on China a massive military buld up while US has already built up a probably more massive military is nonsense, the same the claim on Russia with Cina setting up some space capability to destroy satellites -I am sure US has or will set-up much stronger capability- and one of his main attack points was Xi Jinping to Putin relationship and its effect on Ukraine. While the 3rd man stressed in his softening goal the fact that China supports Ukraine by being its largest trading partner, the 2nd American stressed China support to Russia by many materials does enable Putin continue to fight in Ukraine. He also stressed the fact that except of 1 American ALL US journalists have been expelled by China. My personal ranking on most neutral is exactly as they were sitting left to the right, with the most right (2nd American) being a quite distant class by its own. I think also your "revised" comment as "two talk war, two talk relationship" is not really matching what they said, as for me none was speaking about war, but two talked with target to reduce the hostility, the first American talked about WHY the situation is as hostile as it is and the second American claimed strongly on China what is not correct out of a very weird perspective which becomes nonsense/a way to push America First when US has or is doing the same or is targeting something bad as I personally do assume is the case on Ukraine (this war is absolute nonsense, for nothing, but pushed by US in its NATO eastward expansion and as plans did not work out as planned US is now putting pressure on China).

[@unreliablenarrator6649]

Answer: USA has gone off the deep end grieving the loss of its unipolar moment and could stumble into a war with China, Taiwan being the proximate cause if not the actual cause. Viewers should note that both the PRC and ROC constitution recognize the principle of One China and claim sovereignty for both the mainland and Taiwan province. China is a sovereign country with a right to maintain a defensive military. That Xi has set a target for readiness for a war over Taiwan in the face of US meddling is reasonable. Furthermore, China is the only nuclear armed nation with a no first use doctrine, while the USA is the only country to have ever used nuclear weapons (twice, in East Asia) and continues to maintain a nuclear first-use doctrine; in that context, what wouldn't China position itself for a position of strength on MAD? Edit to add: Niall Ferguson is still a pompous ass, it is comforting in a time of global instability to have that constant.

[@pardeeptandon]

In 2019 alone, Nato dropped 26,000 bombs on 7 Sovereign countries without UN sanctions, killing thousands and making millions of refugees. Was this done to further Democracy or human rights?

[@yaoliang1580]

The real reasons for this unimaginable cruelty is to replace the existing leader with a corrupt puppet that can be easily bribed to sign very favourable trade agreements that provides huge benefits to their corporations to engage in ruthless exploitation n plunder of their resources

[@LennethSim]

The 2 Americans in the panel are certainly out of the league. Their understanding of China is appalling and what they actually knew were so outdated. Enough said!

[@user-dq4lk9es8v]

其實我剛看了其中一個在台灣的節目，他是個極端反華者，當然目的是為了推銷軍火

[@agrippamarcus6533]

It’s hard to talk to a guy like Matt Pottinger when every other sentence is a lie

[@tonym842]

It's obvious who is moving towards the other.... Crossing an ocean to provoke...

[@pardeeptandon]

Who has paid for the tariffs imposed by Trump? Obviously, Americans paid and are still suffering from the inflation caused by these tariffs.

[@GuzzarAwan]

Lodey u r follower of that Tansmale Meghnad . That tells how much hold on geopolitics u have 🙄

[@phil20_20]

China's governance appears more unwieldy than the U.S. Even though we have our 50 States and several protectorates, we have large ideological consensus groups. Primarily the conservative vs the liberal ideologies. China may have a much more complex provincial society. We were talking about China as a threat in economic and financial terms long before either Xi or Trump came into the picture. This is much more than simply miscommunication. We have very different ambitions for the human race as a whole.

[@jameschen9570]

Misinterpretation of China will lead to miscalculation that will lead to the possibility of conflict between China and U.S., especially in the issues of Taiwan and the South China Sea. 30:22

[@geopoliticsfan]

Zero percent facts Only arrogant double standard people 😂

[@GeoScorpion]

What do you do? Copy and paste this CCP talking point on every geopolitics-related site you can find? Kinda lazy even for a wumao...

[@thecomment9489]

@@GeoScorpion LOL. What an intellectual rebuttal. Are you a product of US educaiton system?

[@ssuwandi3240]

The Chinese tech doesn't come with standard regulation required. Because the Uniparty only works w surveillance tools and high supports for IP THEFT

[@ssuwandi3240]

You should know that's the missing element in the CHEAP solution. But they would weep Poor Me and critical_race rubbish theory and so on. .

[@sed9406]

@@GeoScorpion cope

[@winstonsheng1936]

China does not need the USA market but the basic Americans need cheaper Chinese Goods!

[@chunmuhe4860]

opposite. China import food and oil, export shoes and electric toys.

[@yaoliang1580]

​@@chunmuhe4860enjoy your ignorance.

[@mikef6399]

@@chunmuhe4860 It appears you lost your memory 20 years ago

[@friedhelmschroter8124]

Oh, in my understanding this sentence expresses an arrogance Chinese like to claim on Americans concerning their military might/actions ?! Americans do enjoy cheap Chinese goods, but if their government would decide Americans will live some time without these cheap Chinese goods and set-up new factories in Mexico, India or whereever convenient and as a consequence the Chinese having produced these products will get unemployed. You can surely state China does not need employent by US purchase, yet I believe your colleagues suffering unemployment will think/state different. You may also think in my view wrongly that China does not need US products, yet when the US block on the most advanced Semiconductors will start to act fully, let's see if you are still able to have access to the most advanced smart phones or China does advance to a 2nd or even 3rd world country on smart phones. The US having on same land area just 350 million people while China with less good soil has to feed 1.400 million people can enjoy a quite good life on their internal ressources only. Even with same distribution on ressources US would have huge advantages, yet I believe China has less key ressources than US, the most prominent being oil where US can export, while China needs to import.

[@chunmuhe4860]

@@yaoliang1580 have a look at china 2023 customs data: as value top ten import products are fossil fuel, chips and bean etc. on export, are electric devices, such as phone , computers. car parts etc.

[@dasgupta9288]

if money turned out to be the key factor, then it is not democracy

[@aihong2971]

As of 2024, the United States maintains an estimated total of approximately 5,044 nuclear warheads. This includes around 1,770 deployed warheads, 1,938 reserved for operational forces, and an additional 1,336 retired warheads awaiting dismantlement . In contrast, China has approximately 500 nuclear warheads. While the exact number of deployed warheads is less clear. Really America is the pot calling the kettle black.

[@samliew6610]

Always the Hypocrites

[@mayerrathore8132]

Guys country economy is like a football league , it is time for china and Russia to lead the world

[@onetwokaafour]

Fk that

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

China and Russia in BRICS and their borders that’s why they have lots to meet about

[@arnostmarks2853]

😂😂

[@lynnelee4390]

And because u.s. drove putin away, and into xi's arms. Leave it to our overlords to continually do the wrong thing

[@AlexLi8]

What the girl said was most close to reality. I talked to a lot of Chinese people and what they told me mostly corroborate what she said. Much more US Chines students return to China these days than before. I had a lunch with a recently immigrated Chines couple (via investment so you know they are wealthy). What they said was exactly as the girl said, they applied for immigration to the US during covid restriction time, if it was now, they would not do it. And probably they would return to China after hanging out here a little bit. Main thing is they could not find anything to do here. The guy on the right is a joke. typical no substance but only hot air type.

[@chaebeatz8696]

Your absolutely on point on this this is crazy. We’re watching everything unfold in front of our eyes… the end is near. Is this going to be all out bloodbath after this? 🤷🏽‍♂️🤷🏽‍♂️🫡🫡🤝🤝

[@mikef6399]

Gold observation!

[@friedhelmschroter8124]

In my understanding US (not only government, but also individuals) has currently a mood toward China/Chinese that can be called hostile to some extent. It is clear that in such environment more Chinese students return (or are forced to return) to China than at times when the US mood on China was positive. However, please note at least for the time being US decided it will not reject Chinese students completely, but rather continues to issue up to if I remember correctly 300.000 student visas and one key target of this you can easily imagine is to show how different US is organized in sense of free speech/personal freedom/etc. and bring some knowledge about this to China as an alternative for the Chinese way which is drastically different (I believe the couple you refer to had specific reason which caused them to try to emmigrate to US, this means they were not completely happy about their situation in China).

[@abe1863]

but the point andrew made repeatedly is that the voice and influence of the "chinese people" is limited so we should focus on Xi and the CCP, and it's hard to disagree with him. but keyu made a good point - and this is a simple game theory analysis - china has a right to self actualisation but unfortunately for them (everyone) it seems this geopolitical struggle is zero-sum (especially where it concerns taiwan), so one cannot blame the US for trying to pursue its own goals. to avoid conflict, one party would have to make painful compromises and it looks like neither is prepared to do so (nor should they).

[@friedhelmschroter8124]

@@abe1863 Fully agreed, the influence of 1.400 million chinese people for geostrategic points like Taiwan, the 9-dash line, some kind of relation to Russia is not existent, this is solely decided by the few CCP-Chinese if not mainly by Xi Jinping alone. Keyu's point that the young generation has different opinion and especially in fast changing China this may/should/will lead in future in China to a different thinking of CCP and the successor of Xi Jinping is for sure valid, but such time in future cannot be waited for, it is permanently necessary to take decisions and the just already and soon still to be taken decisions can take into account only today's generation behavior of ruling China. I do not really understand what you understand under "zero-sum" as a result on current conflict. US has decided to block China's access to the most advanced Semiconductors and this block alone is not a zero-sum, but will become a huge MINUS for China, because in my view China has no chance to compensate or to get on par with the West on advanced Semiconductors. US has blocked any access to US market for Chinese electric cars, one field where China at this moment just got on par with the West and additionally has quite a large price advantage where it is not clear what this advantage originates from (lower labor cost is a clear factor, but this get partly compensated by the shipping cost, control of the batterie material processing cost?, .... -a very unclear situation). This specific block is a zero-sum block, because China has never exported cars to US (China does not lose any USD turnover), but it takes China the opportunity to compensate advanced Semiconductors. And China should expect additional measures to be taken by US and not underestimate the danger, that Europe will join US in the hostile attitude on China. All what I can see is not at all a zero-sum, but rather a huge huge loss for China, yet not fully clear/decided by today, because development is still ongoing/processing. China's behavior around Taiwan is indeed one key, if not THE key point (9-dash line is much less important). This is especially important also for the mood change in Europe, because diplomatic and naval/air terror against Taiwan is such a clear logical reason every European will immediately decide on THIS IS NOT OK, we need to engage and protect Taiwan like we decided on Ukraine. I am still trying to understand why the situation US-China did become as hostile as it is at this moment. At this moment I can believe there is a little truth in the point of mutual misunderstanding as proposed in this video, yet for me this is not sufficient because except on the special case TSMC I cannot see the importance of Taiwan (and the major problem TSMC is already decided to get get reduced, because both TSMC and Intel do invest huge amounts in US and Europe) to run into a conflict of current size. My additional point is therefore, the US did a huge huge mistake NOT to revise opinion on getting Ukraine/Georgia into NATO. The war Russia-Ukraine is not at all running to the pleasure of both US and Europe and this results in US doing the next failure, apply pressure on China to get China aligned against Russia. I believe this is the major motiv and the situation is nearly impossible to relax, because US pressure on China did push China to look for support and the only available is Russia. Is there really any need for painful compromises? I don't think so, but US has to learn that it cannot proceed such dangerous item as NATO eastward expansion according to their pleasure will (all pain/dieing is on Ukraine) and China has to learn that it is better to accept the global order US established after WWII, because for a long long time (if ever) China will not be able to rebel against such order successfully. This applies to Taiwan, where the only global order allowed solution is peaceful integration (and please note in my understanding global order does not completely forbid, yet there is quite high resistance/hurdle to allow separation and this means Taiwan has few chance to succeed if a mad mood in Taiwan would result in such try) and this applies also to the 9-dash line where instead of history, actual facts should be take as a guideline for fixing the border disputes (opening the global order to history as China wants on the 9-dash line could mean Europeans also demanding their colonial rulerships to be established, an absolute NoGo for US maintaining the global order).

[@albertl623]

what is the point of having these conversations? not informative at all

[@albertl623]

I am surprised that you even invited these two here, what do you expect, of course they are gonna lie, they are gonna change narratives, dodge questions. The so-called facts they give have nothing to do with reality in China.

[@thecomment9489]

Yep specially when two warmongering propagandists are part of the panel.

[@qingzhou9983]

This guy just refuses to listen to other's point: that Gentleman said very clear every US technology went to China was approved and executed by US Companies themselves. This technology for Access is just like the extra high price everyone paid to US technology: price for Goods. There is no "Steal" here and those CEOs are not stupid. They earned huge profits from outdated technologies, sometime several generation/decades old. By the way, this Technology vs Access is the game all Developing Countries play all the time.

[@SHW5010]

They’ll steal your children’s future: As proven at trial, Sinovel stole proprietary wind turbine technology from AMSC in order to produce its own turbines powered by the stolen intellectual property.

[@GeoScorpion]

Well, what to do with the CEOs (and the boards of directors) who gave access with their eyes open is another conversation: The Select Committee on the CCP should definitely be doing hearings on them. That said, you can't apologize for IP theft with "well, everybody does it." If dealing with the PRC means having to put up with theft, then maybe the solution is to take our bat and ball and go somewhere else where people play by the rules...

[@qingzhou9983]

@@GeoScorpion Your arrogance is amazing. You are assuming all these Western CEOs and business leaders were not as smart as YOU are when they decided to invest in PRC.

[@GeoScorpion]

@@qingzhou9983 My 'arrogance' is come by honestly and it isn't a question of intelligence. The 'Western CEOs and business leaders' are now doing exactly what I've been saying they were going to have to do for the past 5 years. Even Blackstone, BlackRock, Goldman Sachs, Elon Musk, Tim Cook are scrambling to get out AFTER doubling down and the only thing slowing them down is "Sunk Cost". If you don't believe me, walk down the street in Shanghai in the formerly bustling 'Foreign District' or compare the traffic (truck and ship) of ANY of the Chinese ports from 2019 -2023... and note the empty cargo containers stacked 7-10 high. Sorry buddy, but you whiffed on this one.

[@jliang70]

​@@GeoScorpionGiving technology in exchange aa part of joint venture was pretty common not just in China but also in countries like Korea. This was aldo happrning eith Korean automotive industries whrn they had this type of joint venture with the US and Japanese company. There was never any type of accusation when Korean gain their technology with this exact practice in 80s

[@patrickvernon4766]

Don’t have to be. But USA liberal capitalism can’t just mind its own fucking business

[@leebarry5686]

Of course each side is doing propaganda, but still there is the fact of justice! Invasion is evil, persecution is evil, suppression is evil, hegemony is evil!

[@tonym842]

And the US does all those evil things, persistently.

[@kennyy3085]

Being sick of Anglo-Saxon lies

[@lynnelee4390]

They lie for sure, but for once this is not a lie. China is the enemy. And America is in big trouble this time.

[@ssuwandi3240]

Well NATO is Globalists just like WEF these Chinese are kidding up their behind

[@randomdude7384]

Keyu Jin's days of being able to travel to the US are numbered.

[@onetwokaafour]

Lol no. That's how china operates

[@liubang9375]

The US has no capability to fight China in Asia as it was proven in Afghanistan against the Taliban where the American troops pathetically ran away from the battlefield in the middle of the night 🤣🤣🤣

[@NorCalMoDo]

If the china crisis hype is gone, what could these hawks do? lost their jobs...

[@MS-ce8nr]

The basic problems is that the two countries are quite opposite in terms of ideology. One is freedom, democracy, and rules of Law. The other is a totalitarian and authoritarian country.

[@ascoaptwwasmqx2840]

Why is USA so concern about human rights in China when most Chinese is doing better comparable to those in Africa, India and many other poor countries? USA must first sincerely exemplary resolve human rights and poverties in these poor countries first.

[@lynnelee4390]

Human rights are not measured in dollars

[@lagrangewei]

@@lynnelee4390 it seem to be with the US... Israeli are rich so they have more right, Palastinian are poor so they have less right...

[@lyttlebee]

Who noticed that Keyu refilled some water for the moderater first and then herself...that's real Chinese etiquette. By the way, Keyu and David obviously made more sense than the other two American panelists, well done!

[@raymondjackson5499]

Taiwan is a part and province of China China has the sole absolute right to defend and exercise its sovereignty and territory Why should the USA get involved in the internal affairs of China it’s not about democracy or totalitarianism

[@tracyli5201]

As a Chinese, I will say the two Americans paint a more realistic picture of China than the two Chinese scholars although I cannot support any decoupling and cold-war containment the two American gentlemen were pushing for. BTW, can you keep the volume any lower? Can barely hear it.

[@jiahan3849]

I had a preprint which address this problem. The root cause is philosophical. I quote one passage from a book "A band of heavily armed thugs could take over a territory and establish by force procedures for exploiting its inhabitants. … Since it is easy to make ethical claims without doing anything to substantiate them if you are powerful enough, it is unlikely that my thugs would not engage in the process of rationalizing their oppression. So, it may well be difficult to identify the genuine article. Such hypocrisy, however, is, …, the tribute that vice pays to virtue. Also, words have consequences: some people may believe them and start acting as though they were true. " John Charvet, Liberalism p.110. You can never understand CCP unless you understand the above.

[@henli-rw5dw]

Haha. Not true. You can never understand CCP unless you understand the history of where they came from, what they've done, and what they are doing, and what they intend to do. So basically nobody in US understands the CCP very well. Your understanding of the CCP comes from what Uncle Sam is doing, to pave the ground for what it intends to do, but unfortunately, it's based on a very poor knowledge of the CCP, so not going to work.

[@NoohCee]

What you are saying is exactly what US is doing.

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

I think the men of the world has played too many war games online hence made them lick their lips for real war.

[@yuchiaju]

There were many discussion around Taiwan. Why there’s no voice from any Taiwanese but only people from China and the US? Is the talk representative enough regarding voice?

[@lamrof]

I love it. US hyperbole on display right here.

[@ericphua2359]

The pretty lady humiliating Xi to said 900 million are still under middle income. Xi already said all Chinese are arrived at middle income, and there is no poor person in China.

[@jliang70]

I think this guy from naval academy talked about Chinese people not being able to express their opinion on their government and the US policy but how many Chinese people has he spoken to in reaching this conclusion. What I see from this guy is pure warmongering which is hardly surprising giving this type of guy have their livelihood depending on the country going to war and having military complex filling their bottom pocket. Talking about the Chinese population but does he know Chinese population is 4 time of that of the US, its work force is about 4.5 times of that of the US, it has a highly skill worked force numbering almost 200 million ( which is about 1/7) of the population, comparing to about 27 million in the US. Well, it sounded pretty good if you agree with someone but you need to reach an agreement when you done your own study of the matter. This Peter Zeihan theory of Chinese declining work force never mentioned the real figure of labor force, what is also failed is the fact that for a country like India it will take at least another 30 years to have a work force of equal number to China. Another angle we can look at is the above 65 population currently both US and South Korea are with 16% of their population above that age bracket and China is at 14%, with Chinese population the median age is around the same as US at 38. Chinese people also has a retirement age of 60 for men and 50 for women that is about 7 years lower for men in the western world. When Pottinger said that it would be not expensive to deter China on Taiwan, then we must remember that this is the guy that said the US military spending needs to be around 50% higher than its current level, it actually reflect how contradictory his comment really is. Is another 450 billion dollars in the coffin of US not expensive? Consider this 450 million is around 10% of US budget revenue and almost 1/4 of the US federal deficit for the coming year. The other thing is about getting Japan to be the front soldier to fight with China, there are two things now with Japan, Japan is now one of the few countries with a declining economy for decades, Japan also has a population with median age of 50 that means almost half of its people is older than 50, in all seriousness does Pottinger actually expect a country that lost 0.8 million people per year with 37% of the population above 60 will fight a war for a foreign country. It does not take a politician to figure that out regardless how religious he or she is about the 'democracy'. As for the uighurs just which guy did naval academy guy spoke ? I mean if he is reading the archived file from state department then my question why is the US State Department not being brave enough to go to UK presenting their evidence on Chinese suppression of Uighurs, was it because they have low level of confidence on their evidence much like Covid which Pottinger lied about to cover up for his chlorine injecting Mr Trump, for his idiotic policy and lies on Covid.

[@henli-rw5dw]

Well, it's usual media tactic to dismiss the opinion of target population and focus on the guy at the top. Iraq was about Saddam, Syria was about Assad. It's just a better story to say that you are bombing a country for their own good.

[@lyttlebee]

Talking about TSMC, i would say the US is not really caring about democracy in Taiwan, but its own interest to stay on top of the tech war. By the way, TSMC is not really owned by Taiwan, it's "owned" by the US, technology wise.

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

Xi talking about chaos was chaos created by western governments he referred to

[@Time4Peace]

In the hand of spinners, it's Xi wanting chaos!

[@user-sq2ts2hd1z]

USA and China both in difficult situation .. The world focus to see which party persist with its goodwill, that will be the winner ..

[@SHW5010]

Chinese Experts: Nothing to see here, it’s all a big misunderstanding. USA Experts: The forest is on fire and we need more water.

[@shu-longhe4048]

CCP doesn’t have ideological big difference from US. China against class struggle and dictatorship of the proletariat. CCP is accepting the capitalist membership since 1990s.

[@Time4Peace]

Taiwan keeps coming up as an issue. The two war mongers lied that Xi's position has changed as Xi is more aggressive and impatient. These arguments were demolished as Xi's position was proven to be consistent since Deng's days in the 80's. Xi too said that it may take generations for peaceful integration and reunification. However, when asked the question whether US's policy and practice have changed. That question was deliberately side-stepped. Verbally, the US claims to abide by the 2-China policy, which recognises China as the sole government and Taiwan as its province. In practice, it has not abide by the policy by (1) arming Taiwan, (2) sending US officials to Taiwan, (3) stationing US marines on Taiwan and its Kinmen Islands 5 km away from China, (4) making provision to recognise Taiwan as an 'independent entity' in the 2022 Competes Act. Yet, when China reacts angrily to each of these infringements, it is said to be aggressive and ready to attack Taiwan. According to UN Charter, Taiwan is a province of China. The civil war was unfinished as the US's Seventh Fleet blocked the Chinese from crossing into Taiwan. Do you see how the two war mongers lied? The justification is always that Taiwan shoukd decide. Should China fund and arm the separatist movements in stolen Hawaii to decide on their independence? Military deterence is always given as the reason for US interference in Taiwan. Why not use dialogue instead of selliing more srms and weapons, with mediators acceptable to China and Taiwan to guarantee the peaceful status quo? Americans have been lied to create a situation for more war funding of the weapons industry.

[@user-dq4lk9es8v]

美國人不斷改變台灣政策，然後迫使習近平做出反應，接著就是美國人抹黑中國政府合理反應的過程，讓自己的改變合理化，繼續讓事態惡化，讓對手在輿論上成為壞蛋，美國最終成為英雄，我是說這是美國人的劇本😂😂

[@mayerrathore8132]

American days are over

[@Wunderpus-photogenicus]

The panel of guests is utterly imbalanced, with serious and extremist hawks on the western side while the show deliberately avoided to invite any hawkish guests from the east side.

[@NoohCee]

There are hardly any hawk in the East.

[@observer2333]

If China is so concerned for neighbor like guy said concerned with neighbor RUSSIA than why China is making fight on border of India

[@ianthesiow3013]

😢🎉😂🎉❤.. 👉🏻👉🏼👉🏽 America calls it "Liberation" instead of "Invasion". That was what US call it in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia and the list goes on... Why the double standard? Confused... Please enlighten. Genuine question... Instances of the United States "liberated" or overthrowing, or attempting to overthrow, a foreign government since the Second World War. (* indicates successful ouster of a government) China 1949 to early 1960s Albania 1949-53 East Germany 1950s Iran 1953 * Guatemala 1954 * Costa Rica mid-1950s Syria 1956-7 Egypt 1957 Indonesia 1957-8 British Guiana 1953-64 * Iraq 1963 * North Vietnam 1945-73 Cambodia 1955-70 * Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 * Ecuador 1960-63 * Congo 1960 * France 1965 Brazil 1962-64 * Dominican Republic 1963 * Cuba 1959 to present Bolivia 1964 * Indonesia 1965 * Ghana 1966 * Chile 1964-73 * Greece 1967 * Costa Rica 1970-71 Bolivia 1971 * Australia 1973-75 * Angola 1975, 1980s Zaire 1975 Portugal 1974-76 * Jamaica 1976-80 * Seychelles 1979-81 Chad 1981-82 * Grenada 1983 * South Yemen 1982-84 Suriname 1982-84 Fiji 1987 * Libya 1980s Nicaragua 1981-90 * Panama 1989 * Bulgaria 1990 * Albania 1991 * Iraq 1991 Afghanistan 1980s * Somalia 1993 Yugoslavia 1999-2000 * Ecuador 2000 * Afghanistan 2001 * Venezuela 2002 * Iraq 2003 * Haiti 2004 * Somalia 2007 to present Honduras 2009 * Libya 2011 * Syria 2012 Ukraine 2014 * 2014 - 2022 - 9 countries yet to verify. Pakistan 2022 * Haiti 2022 * Israel 2023

[@afterlifewelcomesyoutofore2992]

During the school year China has 290,000 military age students in the US studying at US colleges. Guess China figures that for them to go to Russia to study would be a waste of their time. It has been that way for the last 40 years. Any show down between either country is out of the question. What is likely to happen is that a third party will force both sides into a armed conflict by sinking either ones nations ships.

[@jameskelley3365]

So PRC not CCP?

[@dfan8432]

It doesn't matter it is China, Japan or India. The US will not allow any country to overtake it's no.1 position in the world. Asia is a peaceful region since Vietnam war. Don't let the US starts a war here. I hope all the Asian countries understand that.

[@aprofromuk]

china respects international org, ask phillipines about it :)

[@lynnelee4390]

Oh yea, that's why they are attacking and provoking the Philippines every day. Ur uninformed

[@kennyyap9745]

​@@lynnelee4390...NO ONE IN ASEAN GROUP BELIEVING PHILIPPINES CORRUPTED FAMILIES...

[@peterl545]

Those 300 bases, by number or total composition, in the Pacific were already there when all China could export was flip flops. It ensured the freedom of navigation in the sea lanes over 70 years. But you had to get greedy and paranoid, conducting warfare in all domains except kinetic.

[@AntonDev-cw3kc]

The speakers were unanimous in one thing: “Don’t mix the Chinese and the Chinese Communist Party.” I would add that we need to ignore the hoaxes from the Chinese aristocracy: the Chinese are unique, they are so different that they need a dictatorship. Chinese character traits have more in common with the British and Dutch than the latter do with Italians or Scandinavians. Just because of a similar history (economics, demography) in the 16th -19th centuries..

[@Ragerian]

italy just seized chinese military drones bound for benghazi libya.

[@rolfts5762]

Interesting talks. Thanks for sharing. (,,though just a small personal rant, apology for that: ,,Not feeling trust towards people that sugar-talk-smiling-andTappingPanelistsOnTheirShoulders,..in a mission to 'recruit' the audience.) ,,Hope the intelligent people on this planet will come up with some solutions regarding these geopolitical issues.

[@Erik-rp1hi]

Trade with China should be 50/50 even split. No trade deficit. Source the balance from others.

[@PhiloSurfer]

Try to learn how economies and trade work. The problem is that the US is consuming more than it produces. It is not saving enough. If you consume more than what your national income is, there will be a trade deficit. You can balance the trade. Even if you cut off China completely, you will have your deficit with Mexico, Vietnam, Japan and a hundred other countries. Bottom line - balance your own budget and account - don't live beyond your means.

[@wenling3487]

the problem between US and China is structral conflict. it is waste of time to argue with each other. Chinese officials and US officials understand about this. so much less communication right now. the peace between thess two is because of MAD.

[@leebarry5686]

Be true and conscientious, and stick to the principle of justice.

[@Ragerian]

if western countries have to pay penance for the british historical wrongdoings, china has to accept it benefited from qing imperialist policies

[@pardeeptandon]

If America stops poking its nose in the South China Sea Taiwanese parliament will unilaterally pass a resolution to become an autonomous region of China like Hong Kong has become. 90 % of Chinese trade flows through the South China Sea, so they are vested in keeping the sea lanes free for international navigation. America has no such interest, in fact it still needs to rectify the international navigation law.

[@buxi9428]

Matthew Pottinger is a caricature, a pathetic political hack right out of Dr. Strangelove. I take comfort in the fact that he will be remembered poorly by history.

[@alesh2275]

We already were decades ago …

[@truthsetyoufree104]

The US has been in the middle east for the last 70 years and has not solved the Palestinian problem. Now the US is blaming TIKTOK on the Israeli-Palestinian problem. This view is ridiculous.

[@joethao2161]

Honestly, China needs a Chinese Julius Malema because I’m sick of these China hawks!!! They think they can jus say anything they want.

[@andilemxotwa8356]

😂😂😂

[@Antiwumao]

Welcome to free media and freedom of information. You can also say what you want here in support of chinas and Russias crimes against humanity, as you may be using a vpn to bypass the Chinese censorship firewall. Weird how that works isn’t it?

[@jaybleu888]

So it is OK for the West to talk tough and when the Chinese talk back, they're hawks?

[@aftdel]

The US tolerates politely and respects the pro-China side represented by their two opponents. Would China tolerate politely and respect (or even allow) two pro America panelists in a debate on this subject ?

[@jaybleu888]

@@aftdel Have you seen how Karin Jean-Pierre replies to journalists lately? She's hardly "tolerated".

[@Vicky-Blue]

Great discussion

[@anthonyyoung6489]

1:22:34 he is wrong. It’s 23 million people

[@ronaldphoong]

If Taiwan falls, it makes no difference on supply of semiconductors. There will be another supplier. Get real... Technology change doesn't sit on TSMC only. Life goes on...

[@fajarliong]

From opening remarks it is very clear "the empire hegemony is just never to be touched, I can do anything I like as the world belongs to me. I am the righteous, and so you are all my subjects"

[@anwiycti1585]

Projection 😂😂

[@codrinvechiu2832]

I can't stand Ferguson. Reminds me of lord farquaad. His self importedness can fill the colosseum.

[@paulmatters2641]

Every time he opens his mouth cash registers are ringing

[@wilsonfu1258]

He is opportunist, has no principles, this kind of guy is most dangerous character because he pretends to people he is either left or right, inside his mind all he cares about is his personal gain, he is a fake character trying to confuse people when he opens his big mouth!

[@tonym842]

Because he's totally behind US hegemony and a total hypocrite.

[@johnwhoo6194]

This guy lived in China for 10 years, still has no idea about China what a shame!

[@gz6x]

It is amusing.

[@ashfaqueali555]

招募選拔過程已停止

[@klarkewang]

Is this world orderfair? That's the question you ask yourself. If not, sure, China has a right to challenge it to be better, later India and any developing countries should. Not by invading west but changing rules of economy and trade.

[@tomcullen8367]

Wow, do you think there are a few CCP accounts commenting on this video? Are we all going to be Harmonized? Is the Great Rejuvenation of the Chinese Nation soon to be realized?

[@lynnelee4390]

Definitely ccp accounts here, or some ignorant Americans. Harmony is not what's about to happen tho

[@sysxtem]

they started flooding IMMEDIATELY...

[@GuzzarAwan]

U seem to be quite late to understand this. On KZbin if any channel is discussing china , Chinese bots will always flood it

[@shuili666]

Is ‘CCP bots’ your last defense? Your mind is easy to penetrate.

[@sed9406]

@@GuzzarAwan if u disagree, that is a bot. that's a delutional world view

[@ponuni]

tiktok users trend younger and guess who are the ones protesting against israel in American cities? THE YOUNG PEOPLE. The guy that pointed out Tiktok lost all credibility with that one. The younger demographic in America are definitely way more pro Palestine and Tiktok users being Genz/younger reflects that sentiment.