Elite Dangerous presents: Pay to Die

What a collection of bad ideas ...

[@seryvouk4966]

FD has two main problems in my opinion: 1. They don't play this game themselves, so they don't know how and what works. 2. They do not communicate with the community, do not listen to gamers, do not read the official forum. It looks like they don't like what they do. And it could lead to the collapse of the whole business that they inherited from Sir Braben. Maybe I'm being harsh, but that's how I see the situation.

[@kefallos8442]

On the surface, you may be right, but if you take a closer look, you're wrong. Playing the game, yes but there are so many ways to play this game, which one should you choose? Yours or mine, or one of the dozens of others? Respond to the community? 3 players and four different opinions ;-) I know all about it from my professional experience, a path that is impossible.

[@Jadriam]

@@kefallos8442 How is any of that 'impossible'? Playing the game a little bit every day or every few days isn't difficult. You can choose multiple gameplay paths. Plenty of players have done so if the Triple Elite decals are any indication. If you genuinely think listening to communication and feedback is impossible, I just don't know what your professional experience is worth. Listening to customers is how you turn profits. The customer may not be right, but they are the ones with money. Fixing issues with the game is a normal process for MOST dev teams. Cooperating with the community to find new ways of turning profit is entirely reasonable. None of this is an insurmountable challenge - unless FDev continues ignoring ALL advice given.

[@enrogae]

They could've added visual customizations that players can see. They could do HUD colors, ship interior colors and customization, they could do more carrier interiors, more carrier paint jobs, more ship paint jobs (less so visually seen by the player often). The fact is that they haven't added anything new to the game other than the Python Mk II, and now they want to charge MORE for the same and also charge Arx for things already obtainable in-game. The whole issue I have is that they want to suddenly get an influx of new money without doing or adding anything new to the game. These decisions aren't being made to better the game in any way, but to please the wallets of people who probably don't even play the game. It's more than a slippery slope, it's a predatory business model in the vein of EA, Activision, etc. In the case of the pre-built ships, they made the grind the terrible experience it is - and now they want to charge us for the solution to the problem they created. I appreciate your calm and collected viewpoint. I think these changes will only hurt the game in the long run. I've spent a goodly amount of real money on the Arx store, but with these changes - I won't be spending another dime on this game while these practices are in place.

[@godofm3tal1]

HUD colors are free using an editable config file, interior colors couldn't be seen on most ships because of the lighting inside. Nobody spends nearly enough time at any carrier to give a fuck what it looks like. Unless the one I land at is some hot pink abomination I'll never care or remember it. And even then it'll only be remembered for making me physically ill to look at.

[@MarcoAmadori]

I would personally buy an "AXI Certified Alliance Chieftain" for 69.420 ARX today. Frontier I think, should leverage more the communities, they are in fact free workers, high quality content producers. I would also buy: An "INVI Certfied Imperial Cutter" sampler. An "Inara themed" jumpaconda Probably also a "Hydra Killer Mechan Approved" Sidewinder.

[@Astyrrean]

Hehe thank you. I can give you an Eagle in Live! Or a Sidey in Legacy, with some bugged hammergauss.

[@CMDR_ALNASL]

New ship, same old Instrumentation. Yes, every car has a steering wheel, but not every car has the same dashboard. While I appreciate and participate in additional exterior ship cosmetics, I never get the chance to see them when piloting my ship. As someone who spends 99.9% of my time in the pilots seat looking at the same old tired dashboard, offering different, or upgraded instrumentation as a cosmetic is something I would support. Buying pre-built ships, not so much.

[@AndyFirebladeMuza]

I feel sorry for the players that bought the Lifetime Pass. They have been forgotten about. The Chieftain AX Build was definitely not designed by anyone who has done AX Combat. I am all for supporting the game, that is why I bought the game and all it's expansions and Beta's. That is why I have bought ship kits, paint jobs, Cockpit Accessories , Covas Voices, Engine and Weapon Detailing, Vehicle Extras, Suit Extras Etc Etc. That is why I will buy into the Python 2 early access. Like you I am worried about how far it will go with Pre Build Ship sales and Early Access. At the end of the day I have put over 7000 hours into this game. I have had way more than my monies worth but, I have also invested a lot of money in purchasing PC's, GPU's, Monitors to improve how the game looks and runs. I have also invested a lot in accessories to play the game such as various HOTAS, Mice, Keyboards Etc. At the end of the day I will continue to support the game but, if they start to get greedy, I will stop. Oh, hang on, Price increases all over the Store = no more cosmetics for me.

[@hanswichmann5047]

Welcome to the 7000 club! Similar history, and yes, no more ARX from me...

[@FluxOrbit]

​@hanswichmann5047 HOOOOOLY hell just looked at the new Arx prices. What the actual fuck are they thinking??? $16 for a single suit skin? Are they insane? The greed isn't hidden anymore. It's front and center. They don't care about Elite anymore, they care about your wallet and nothing else. Pay to play ships is so awful. Star Citizen should have been a fucking warning to them, not a leader to be followed.

[@goby1000]

It still doesn't matter if you pay real money for a pre-ship. You still have to learn to walk before you can run. You can have the strongest ship in the game, but if you cant use it, it doesn't matter. And still you can get knocked down by a sidewinder. As you said that the ax team have taken down the hardest ax ships in a sidewinder. I have over 2500h in Elite. I have all the ships in the game and a carrier. I have most of them engineered for different tasks. And still haven't managed to take down a interceptor by myself. But have done a lot of exploration, mining and even more engineer grind. And still havent been to Colonia. But you still have to do the legwork, if you want to get good. Even if you use real money to buy pre-engineer ships.

[@zeazevedo]

As always, a thoughtful and measured view on the state and direction of our game. Players' frustrations are not, never have been and I doubt that they will be a priority in FDev's view... proof of this is the recent change in prices in the Elite Dangerous online store, with increases in the order of hundreds of percentage points! Another thing that I honestly think happens at FDev is that whoever makes the decisions probably doesn't play the game... if they did, many of the things that frustrate and alienate players would be easily and quickly rectified. See you soon cmdr, o7.

[@hibiki54]

I agree that they could do a monthly pass and call it "Pilots Federation VIP Permit". It would include: a) Monthly ARX stipend b) 2-3x shipyard module and on-foot storage (assets, goods and data) capacity. c) The ability to do remote experimental effects and pin 5 addition engineer blue prints regardless of Engineer limit. d) 10% more EXP e) 10% Rebuy Discount

[@alz722]

All good ideas.

[@danielrdotcom]

I’d pay a sub for “any station engineering”, “any station material trading”, and halved material requirements.

[@Helxas]

I wouldn't mind seeing something like this alongside pre-built ships, but not this INSTEAD OF pre-built ships. Nobody can pay to increase their gameplay skills, and Elite is such that a skilled pilot in a bad ship can destroy an unskilled pilot in a good ship. So, what the Pay To Win argument boils down to is "pay to skip some of the game". What we have here are two methods for that: pre-built ships, or a monthly resource injection (battle-pass). Both fulfill the same "pay to skip some of the game" criteria, so arguing in favor of one over the other doesn't seem right. So why offer both options? Well, pre-built ships (THAT ARE PROPERLY MADE, FDEV needs to fix their current pre-builds) are immediately good for noobs, while a battle-pass is immediately good for veterans. Noobs don't know what to do with engineering mats, and don't have the credits to buy high-grade ships. This monthly resource injection will do little to keep noobs in the game, who want to see spectacle and not the grind, but it would certainly please veterans who are willing to pay for less grind.

[@silentjay3272]

It just further proves they don’t play the game they designed. They have no clue how to build or engineer a ship. Embarrassing really.

[@hanswichmann5047]

Pretty sad state of affairs when the players are brainstorming better ways for the developer to make MORE money... Buying $$ pretty ships/suits/etc is one thing - subscriptions quite another that I feel most of us will not stand for...

[@thepathnotfound]

I would buy a new dedicated Exploration ship in a heartbeat, I’ve already got a fleet of ships and a carrier. Been sitting in the black scanning systems for over a year.

[@captainyossarian388]

The changes made strike me as the results of a brainstorming session at Frontier that went something like this: "Our financials are coming up and we need to make additional money with the least amount of effort in only a few months. What are your ideas?"

[@VerticalBlank]

Those prebuilds are clearly put together by somebody aping the meta without understanding it, cargo cult style. Aha the meta has a single beam laser, on it goes. Completely ignorant of the fact that it is there for its thermal vent mod. Classic FDev, they have zero clue how to play their own game.

[@Tecnicomando]

I totally agree.... I feel happy to have new ships, but I feel sad (disappointed) with this turn of events. I don't understand what the idea is of angering your player base... I don't understand.

[@gubernator46]

If Frontier doesn't listen to it's Player base we have to demonstrate for our needs in a way Frontier cannot deny. We should create a special "Give us the right AX Pre Build Ship" (or another favorite of mine: reduce PowerPlay/BGS effects made in Solo) event in a certain system at a given day. If that dosn't get their attention, we should take amore drastical aproach and create a "don't log into Elite in week XY" event. I'm pretty shure that that will do the trick!

[@Jadriam]

FDev has had questionable ship and ship design choices since the Cobra mk4 IMO. I just don't think they watch/play the game enough to understand what's wrong or what people enjoy doing. It'd be easier to find a monetizable compromise if they listened to player feedback and/or played their own game for an hour each day for a month.

[@simcoe8157]

Personally, I'd be happy to pay a little extra to get a jump on a better-than-D-rated ship. I played for years, went through the exploration and mining grind to get a couple good upgraded ships. Then my buddies wanted to jump in to ED with me! OK, let's drag them through the grind too so they can get something survivable. Even went out to get Guardian unlocks to do bug hunts. After hours and hours, night after night, they never did get back in to take on the thargoids with me. I get it. Some players would like a small boost to get them going smoother at the start and are fine paying a small price for it. And others don't. At least you have a choice.

[@Tenken77]

Give us a monthly battle pass that rewards engineering mats. This would be an optional subscription for those with a life and can't no-life engineering.

[@jayloopgamingchannel4926]

FDev said they were going to adjust and modify how engineering works... Based on the recent events, I suppose they're going to make it even worse but , miraculously, you're going to be able to buy pre-engineered modules from the store for "JUST" 10.000ARX each .

[@kempo79]

I think that the best way of earning on Elite would be releasing new DLC packs - not as large as Odyssey, but regularily. One of ideas I had was to add new earth-like (or water worlds, or methane worlds etc.) landable planets BUT (bear with me!) not as proceduraly generated worlds but singular worlds hand-made by FDev. People who bought particular world-DLC would have access to it. That way FDev would add some new planets - with many technological restrictions ommited.

[@AnontheOP]

I think you're right on the money when you say that this ship will end up making players quit, which will end up making Frontier less money in the long term. You want to hook in repeat customers, not drive them away by setting them up to fail. It's like pointing people toward a quest in a game and not telling them it's impossible to complete.

[@user-gt6xq8il4w]

if they need more income maybe they should look back at things they've added previously. I am referring to the holo adverts for the fuel rats. Ok that's a free service but its noninvasive enough that i wouldn't mind seeing something stupid like a monster energy poster or multiple different companies advertising in say sneak in aliance space, monster in pirate space, liquid death in imperial space and whatever or make more like this station is a mining station you have adverts for a high energy chocolate bar the next station is a farm so it has an ad for green giant sweetcorn. Dont forget your limpets, limpets at this station brought to you buy Volkswagen; they have so much untapped advertisement potential!

[@_chirp_6108]

I think everyone is forgetting that you can earn a weekly ARX in the new powerplay 2.0 care package

[@chris746568462]

Everything modern video game related now is about greed and corporate arrogance. Always vote with your wallet.

[@sorenravn7175]

What upsets me the most is actually the amount of effort put in the monetisation model so far. It's like they don't even try... Just looking at Odyssey, the options are pitiful. Not a single custom gun model. Gun skins that look like they took a wallpaper pattern from a library and slapped it on. Very few suit models, and not all that interesting. Now look at what other games are doing, I won't name them, but you know what big FPS titles I mean, their shops are bustlin with content. A lot of it may be kitsch, some even bad taste, but it's making those franchises money. The spaceship category is of course much better, but still not what it could be. How do they expect to make money with MTX when overall, their shop offer is so poor?

[@kunimitanaka1079]

Thank you CMDR Mechan. I'm a little confused that you chose not to comment on the 100% to 300% increases across the ARX store that FD just put in place which severely devalues ARX held by CMDRs, either earned in game or paid for. To add my 2cr to this conversation I would say 2 things: 1. Frontier Developments obviously needs to make money from this game for it to have any kind of future and we ALL want that I'm sure 2. Frontier Developments current approach to this doesn't come across as changes being made to "save Elite"-if they were then the changes would be from a nurturing the community angle-instead all of their current actions come across as "The ship is sinking quick grab all the valuables and get in the life boat!". The monetary changes they have made feel abusive and not at all constructive.

[@Astyrrean]

Honestly I am not too fussed about the price changes per se. As far as I’m concerned, if they want to price the Chromed Anaconda at a million dolllars … and someone buys it … good for them. That’s how conspicuous consumption works and for pure vanity items, if someone else is willing to pay that much to fund the game I play for essentially free, well great - thank you sir or madam! “Whales” are a good thing for non-whales (so long as what they buy doesn’t confer gameplay advantages.) As typical though the communication around it all was exceptionally poor, and that part is honestly infuriating as usual.

[@kefallos8442]

I have worked long enough in game development and support. Elite Dangerous cannot survive without regular income. Good programmers cost money, and a game that is supposed to offer good content in the long term has to be solidly financed. Now you have to think about how the whole thing can be financed, so that it can continue to be fun for a long time to come.

[@cmdrstevemcmaru7417]

This is a good and without a doubt a valid argument, I do work in software development myself, but Elite is 10 years old and just now FDEV found out, that this game has to make more money to stay afloat? I am fine with providing starter ship builds to allow people to get up to speed, but Cmdr Mechans point is absolutely valid and understandable. But they also have to do a rework on engineering. Just increasing the price of paintjobs and other cosmetics by in some cases 200% is not the way to go. Especially if people now decide to not buy cosmetics for that reason, FDEV will not make more revenue with ED. I hope, they find a way to keep this game alive and to provide more fun game play. This is the game we obviously all love to play. o7 Cmdrs. @Cmdr Mechan, this is a great video outlining your stands on the topic.

[@ShinigamiAnger]

@@cmdrstevemcmaru7417here here ✋🏻I was willing to buy a lot of cosmetics, and I don’t even use them since I prefer vanilla ships by a long margin, and also the early access to the new python, even though I genuinely think that it’s not worth it, all to give my support to the game that I love, I was just waiting for the ‘shop rework’. In all honesty I feel insulted and have changed my mind, I won’t spend a single cent.

[@wolff6592]

I agree this is a good compromise that fdev has come up with. I've put the years of grind and work into getting my game experience to a decent level. This model doesn't affect that. It's not a pay to win update. These pre-built (for those of you cmdrs who don't remember) are to get fresh blood into the game. When I first started I almost quit cause I was constantly getting attacked by gankers and trolls (you know who you are bastards) for no reason whatsoever unprovoked that is tasteless incredibly ignorant to attack a noob then they quit the game forever. That's why they are losing to NMS SC or SF. You trolls are destroying a almost perfect true limitless open game. This is a compromise which works. I think.

[@ShinigamiAnger]

​​@@wolff6592how is selling ships going to solve the ganker problem? 🙄 If anything it's going to encourage the gankers even more

[@wolff6592]

@@ShinigamiAnger anything is better then wtf your doing now. It destroying new players from coming into play. N I do mean you not them cause you've probably done what I've just said. I've known many ex players who left or never had a chance to play because of idiots destroying the game experience. If your like pvp combat that's why they created a whole freakin separate section for ppl who like that. But the gankers n trolls never use it. Am I wrong? Fdevs made a section just for gankers n trolls n they would rather pick on noobs. Prove me wrong!!

[@Ephiji]

My biggest fear is that they would use the money to fund other failing projects like f1 manager, but if they actually spend the revenues to improve the game I wouldnt mind this kind of P2W. I would even consider to spend some money if they actually release a good ship, I wont pay for python mk2 which is an improved FDL and I won't probably use it anyways, but with a new anti-thargoid ship or a sick exploration ship with nice cockpit view (I value this more than 5-10 extra ly of jump range) I may even open my wallet.

[@Astyrrean]

Let me tell you about our lord and savior, the hollow ViperMk3

[@Ephiji]

@@Astyrrean I dont think I'm skilled enough to do combat with a Viper. If you mean for exploration purposes nothing beats the imperial courier, I have one with 45~ish ly with enhanced performance thrusters that makes it boost to 850 m/s. Downsides are that is quite hot and fuel scoop is only class 3, but it's a super fun ship and when I look up in my cockpit I can only see the stars, by far my fav ship.

[@nrogado]

My thoughts on Frontier: FDEVs are great! They did an amazing game! The real problem @Frontier is Senior Management / CEO! Receive their big pay at the end of the month and are simple responsible for TOO MANY, TOO MANY, JUST TOO MANY bad decisions for the game and for their clients (gamers). What I don't understand is everyone (not you, but many others) complaining about FDEVs WHEN WE ALL KNOW WHO RULES A COMPANY AND MUST BE THE ULTIMATE RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING WITHIN A COMPANY: SENIOR, TOP, CEO, MANAGEMENT! Whatever you want to call it! As a manager myself I know I'm responsible for everything. They should also know and they are simply destroying FRONTIER as a whole! Not only Elite Dangerous! At the end of the day there is 1 responsible! He/She does not care, probably when leaving receives a big compensation! LOL

[@stevenboughner7255]

I don't know about giving a somewhat Engineered AX ship to a CMDR who is having trouble landing at a station. That's not pay to win. Now if a Veteran AX pilot can buy this ship then that would be pay to win. Piloting a ship in Elite is not so much about the best but about skill. Buying the best ship won't replace the seat time to learn how to stay alive. Frontier isn't going to advise new players of this So I guess those of us who know will have to speak up about the Pro's and Con's of a ship. As far as free to play go's I have spent a ton . Long ton of my hard earned cash on weapons and most of the time the item you buy isn't the best for several reasons and most likely make changes to it, if you can to improve your survivability. I assume that the ships will have a buyback cost or would that be considered real money. The bottom line has to say in the black so expect more of this. I hope they do this in moderation and not tip the potato wagon. Having said this they still have a fine line in that they have to keep from getting OP.

[@y_ffordd]

Thanks for the well thought out analysis, so good to hear a rational voice in the maelstrom of anger (reddit). Imagine flying that Chief all the way out to do AX combat and discovering that its not fit for purpose, or even worse, assuming that its entirely your own fault. AX is difficult even with a decent ship, rebuy is thy teacher, they should first run these ideas past somebody who actually plays the game, or element of the game that is relevant.

[@sasairsoftde]

I think they should sell new ships like Digital Combat Simulator do it with their Aircrafts. And probably it should be only a unlock. After purchase you buy the unlocked ship for ingame money.

[@fishstix4209]

Everyone up in here writing novels...

[@fishstix4209]

The* pythons early release is a pay to test for 3 months on live servers to help tweak the final release. Pay to test new things is alright. Not everyone is gonna be a good tester, but if you're willing to pay to test, it shows motivation.

[@AtlasGaming4k]

{directed at commenters not mechan} The game you paid for has ended a long time ago... You are now playing a game someone else is paying for. Expecting a FREE live service game with no source of revenue literally shows you have no clue about how business works. Go to your boss and suggest you stop sending invoices to your company's customers for work you do and see how that goes. Everyone should be very HAPPY that Frontier has decided to NOT SHUT DOWN the servers by raising more money from WILLING buyers who are happy to give them some $ beyond the $35 price to keep the game going in the future. The quality of ships you can buy is mid tier... and still requires tweaks... Alternative could sell ALL ships or all pre-engineered goods sold for $... that or they should just shut the whole thing down after trhargoids are all defeated because the players have no appreciation for what it takes to have a live service game!

[@sennemaa5976]

Agree 💯 this 👍

[@alz722]

Agreed

[@godofm3tal1]

I think they should give people ways to buy progress. Period. It changes nothing for anyone. It gives them nothing anyone else can't get for free. But what it does do is generate income, give new players a means to skip grinds they don't want to do which will increase player count and make people happier with their time in the game. The thing I think that deters people the most from a game like this is the hundreds of hours of grind it takes to even become relevant. And that's fine. Grind is life. But some grinds are unbearable for some people who would happily pay to skip them to begin other avenues of adventure. I don't think they should sell in game currency. But engineers is a perfect example. Pay to skip that shit. Pay for materials packs so you don't have to spend hours scouring the galaxy for stuff to synthesize your ammo and other things. Some people just want to go out and blow shit up. Not have to deal with the other crap. Elite is a horrendously time intensive game and some ppl love that. Others want to experience it without the need to kill their experience for dozens of hours or more first. Consider exploration. The new player that just wants to experience the 1:1 universe in ED. What do they need.. at minimum a ship with a good jump range. Probably engineered. Likely a dbx at the minimum, probably more like a aspx. Fully A rated. Fully kitted. And a full hold of materials to synthesize everything they'll need for the journey. In the current state of the game, how many hours do you think that would take to achieve? For a new player who doesn't know anything about the game, for them to Even Begin doing that they wanted to do in the game?

[@markbooth3066]

I could see flying the AX Chieftain jumpstart ship as a newcomer being incredibly demoralising.

[@DarthCalamity]

Fighting any Thargoid as a newcomer would be demorlaising! It's taken me some time to become anywhere near average at killing them.

[@markbooth3066]

I am a newcomer @@DarthCalamity. I'd only ever fought Scouts before I built a Titankiller 2.0Bomber, and it only took me a couple of hours of practice in it to get comfortable with the Titan bombing run game loop, and help with the war effort. With only a single Caustic sink launcher, and a 26% resting heat level though, I would probably have given up long before I got to do my first dive.

[@evasuser]

07:12 no no no. I didn't say that in reddit. What I said is that after the 2nd year a subscription could be charged in order to keep playing the game. The subscription could be £1 pcm or £10 per year if paid upfront. Make the just £1 £2 if the numbers don't add up and the £10 £15. I don't like subscriptions but it's the lesser evil. The other is what FDev does now and what they will be doing next year. Of course I want the Elite to exist and I dread the idea that sometime in the next year the Elite will be in just maintenance mode or shutdown.

[@user-kl4pw6mn5d]

LOL, who are YOU!!!!

[@victoryeung2844]

I find that zero rebuy is too much, at least zero rebuy but longer wait time for zero rebuy, or pay rebuy at once

[@WaveEchos]

You missed Station defense AXCZ. That's where 100% prebuilt AX Chieftain in a beginner hands would absolutely excel at. If they die they respawn in the middle of the fight with zero rebuy. This is especially useful if they start with almost zero credits. NPC ship would exert the heart. All they have to do is shoot the glowly bit. And the Gauss cannon should still be good for that. If they manage to poke a cyclops and it explodes then they get millions fast. Incredible jumpstart when you have near zero credits and your other ship is a sidewinder. In the mean time they get to experience the spectacle of an AXCZ.

[@daltonzart6581]

After this Thargoid focused phase of ED the only thing i want to know is only thing only: there is any plans from fdev for a sequel or this franchise is already dead? I would only pay for a monthly fee or continue contributing to ED if there was an expectation of launching a new game in the franchise created from scratch. Otherwise, ED will suffer a painful long death until his end.

[@delfimmarques5014]

Odyssey was launched in 2021 I dont see a problem in paying for premium expansions every 2 years if there is good content. Quality MMOs do so and even charge subscription. You want quality you have to pay for it. Now the problem is that FDEV launches something new and then forgets about it, content is normally shallow, that is my main complain.

[@urbanscopez5582]

Seasonal battle pass would require new content

[@R3dmanactual]

3rd person view option!!!

[@rollingwithbreez6324]

They definitely need to bring Odyssey to Console versions and new updates to Console content. That offers new players and new revenue.

[@raghav1026]

Never happening. Consoles are abandoned sadly

[@rollingwithbreez6324]

@raghav1026 Yeah, I heard.. But that's a loss of customers, We love this game too.. They just didn't promote it well for consoles..

[@adiedri38]

No one is forcing anyone to spend IRL money. FDev need money if the game is going to carry on. The “pay to win” was dreamt up by whiny internet people. If any of these ships went in open or even solo they would die. So, there is no pay to win. There is still a grind to make these ARX ships viable. So, pay for the ship or don’t. Those that do will realise the steep curve that still needs to happen. Also, if these ships help newer players get into the game. Play in Open and make the galaxy feel populated. Then go for it. Pay or don’t. Fly dangerously cmdrs, and glory to mankind

[@OGmujrim]

Saying P2W in a game where actual piloting skills are required is funny. Give a noob a fully engineered AXI build chieftain or krait mk2 and pit them against a cyclops and see how far they get 😂 You're absolutely right about the steep learning curve, they may eliminate the grind completely, but the steep curve isn't going anywhere. Even if they sold these ships optimized and fully engineered, it's still not P2W.

[@vincent_dumont]

"which is expected to to powercreep existing ships in a pretty substantial way, in particularly in regards to pvp" Rendering all other PvP ships obsolete.

[@hanswichmann5047]

All part of the master plan! All your ships are now shit so buy this one!

[@jirikrajnak9047]

big deal, i suppose. now excuse while i go sacrifice 10 quid on the altar of 🐍 mk ii

[@Youda00008]

In my opinion the best monetization model for Elite Dangerous is to sell gameplay packs. Want to do exploration with landing on atmospheric planets? Buy a DLC. Want to explore ship interiors? Buy a DLC. It's not pay to win, everyone pays only for what he wants to do, and it incentivizes creating new interesting gameplay.

[@hanswichmann5047]

Are you craazy? DLC's suck.. I bought a game to learn/grind what I need to in order to build the ship I need..

[@seryvouk4966]

This is the problem. The problem is that the FDs in this case have to develop different DLC, but they are unwilling or unable to do so. They want to collect money and do nothing. If they were not envious of various projects like zoos, then maybe ED was a more exciting game. More qualitative and interesting.

[@Youda00008]

@@hanswichmann5047 Then what's your alternative?

[@puppeteer4916]

Hey Mechan! You are right on point with arguments. Its a slippery slope but a necessary "evil". That being said, one of main game play loops is gathering materials and upgrading ships, right? How ever its one of most chore like for both ships and on foot armor and weapons. Fdev selling shortcuts, and making gathering materials and upgrading easier, will get more players in Milky Way. I have so many friends who tried E:D but, couldn't get the hand of mechanics, sandbox game, and on top of it swallow the steep gathering loops, that are gatekeeping the high end content both PVE and PVP wise. Big however now, if that becomes a case, that getting to an "end game point" becomes easier, what is left? Hopefully more gameplay loops, in both Powerplay and Thargoid war etc.

[@user-kl4pw6mn5d]

I have no problem with selling pre-built ships as they are built right now, I have no problem with paying for early access ships (for those who are willing to buy it).....but...DON'T!!!! take an old ship and just re-skin it with the EXACT same shitty cockpit, with higher hull mass but smaller and less internal compartments.............AND TELL ME ITS NEW CONTENT. The game has become stale in content for a number of years now already and the ONLY thing they can come up with is a re-skin and to sell the same !@#$ as before just at higher prices. DON'T piss down my back and call it rain. I WILL take my wallet and my 4000 hours somewhere else...THANKS!!!!

[@SergeyMihailov]

I'm sorry, I didn't quite get that. Have you actually flown a Titan with a Chief assembled like in the store ? Or is it just a theory that he's so bad. I've seen videos of not super great pilots trying it and they didn't really die, but they were only playing in single player mode.

[@Astyrrean]

kzbin.infoSU6X--0g12E?si=ISVHkAwxdsNOpETY

[@zeazevedo]

You're clearly not familiar with Cmdr Mechan's profile. Unlike many content creators and commentators, Mechan's opinion is, as a rule, very considered and always based on facts, not theories. Mechan doesn't make videos of the game, but rather plays the game and makes videos about it. It may seem like the same thing, but they are actually two completely different things.

[@saffieification]

FYI cmdr Mechan is one of the finest AX pilots in the game. perhaps you should research things before you let that kbd warrior out

[@SergeyMihailov]

@@Astyrrean I apologize if I offended anyone. English is not my native language and maybe the translation of my phrases will seem rude, but I never want that, I'm just a technical person and unfortunately missed THIS video. But it doesn't mean that I agree with any arguments of another person at once, I like to check everything myself.

[@Astyrrean]

@@SergeyMihailov no offense taken. And independent verification is the basis of all factual statements, so go for it! On the topic of the pre-built Chief, note that the point I am making is that I reject the argument that “it is viable”. Even the E-rated chieftain is “viable” by that definition, and in fact it is even more viable than the pre-built one. The fact I can survive in both around TitanSpace doesn’t mean that newcomers will. We’ve had beginners try it, and they didn’t last long at all.

[@zoki.to974]

lets be honest, whatever they offer for real money, one group of the players would be unhappy. there is no perfect solution. also, economy of the country from where player is will drive issue further. for you $5 is nothing, for someone its food for couple of days... on the end, even if they offer fully kitted conda, why would that be a pay to win? to win what exactly?

[@fartex1]

ooooh... youre a beta backer? did you start playing in the spehere, or was it the pill already? referring to sphere and pill as those were the rough shapes the accessable star systems were located in. i was lucky enough to be around since the sphere shape, so yeah... been around a bit. in regards of monetisation: there is not really a lot FDev can do these days as they have missed the boat a long time ago like you stated. battlepas would be one of the few options they actually have, rewarding engineering materials would be one of the better options to do. maybe some skins? however like you said, whats the point of skins if you cant see them as a player that equipped them? as to prebuild ships, your chain of thought is totally on point. sell a ship that at least can do what they intend for it to do, but make it a G3 with room to go to G5 and let new players learn how the grind for engineering mats works if they want to upgrade. ive said this before: thank you so much for your effort on these videos.

[@Astyrrean]

I've played since launch day actually! Or even sooner if you count the Beta. I did miss the cutoff for the CobraMk4 in that I took a break and bought Horizons a month too late ... which is, I argue, the only reason why CobraMk4 vs Hydra is one of the only two remaining "feasible" Hydra solo fights :).

[@fartex1]

@@Astyrrean such a shame mate, really :/ i played the F out of the game during beta, even broke my FFB microsoft hotas because of it ( force feedback just broke lol). oh and i went to a spire for the very first time today with that conda build... the only thing im not really fond of is them burst lasers, they are engineered, but i have to be so close to hit anything, appart from that, it was well worth the grind to get it to full G5, and i thank you for that... went broke because of it, stopped at 1.2B vouchers as im getting to tired. again thank you so much!

[@MrGrownman455]

Let's be honest . With the success of Star Citizen's business model. FDevs could benefit from borrowing some elements of Star Citizen's pledge store which allows them to fill the game with more ships than any one player will ever get to fly and create this 600 million game. So why wouldn't FDevs take a look at SC and start selling new ships for real world money as well? I mean nobody has to buy these ships.

[@unalive_feline]

I built the AX starter for myself and flew it to do both titan bombing and AX CZ around a station. its perfectly adequate with room to grow.

[@Astyrrean]

kzbin.infoSU6X--0g12E?feature=share

[@lorcon8907]

You could look at this the other way as they have not invested anything since odyssey the money raised from this wont be reinvested but just used as a money grab until the point where the revenue drops off and management just let the game slowly die off.

[@alz722]

"Haven't invested anything since odyssey " is completely false. There has been regular updates and bug fixes, regular live streams, new game content in titan rescue missions, titan bombing, titan destruction and spire site on foot and in ship content. They have developed and released new modules, weapons and engineering. New ships with more on the way. They are overhauling powerplay and are going to re-balance engineering to make it less of a grind.

[@josephwales5973]

The only thing is Odyssey never came to Xbox Series X or any of the others. It just came out for p c and that was it which was not cool

[@Nighthawk1983]

For me personally, I dont think this is pay to win, we need to remember these prebuild ships are not meant for us veterans to go buy, i think they are more aimed at new players.. The ships are crap and the engineerd modules cant be used on any other ships. The pythen Mk2 aint gonna be dominating PVP it comes with gimballed weapons. Hawkes gaming put a video out with a fully enginered version and thats not even gonna do well against a good veteran player with a desent weapon load out. To avoid the Pay to win aspect, the yput ships in to boost new comers in the game, most of them are not for veterans in the game. And then again with the pre enginered modules that cant be moved on to other ships, I think this is a very slippery road the game is going down on, and for me atleast its not really Pay to win. You wont avoid the grind in the game, you only get a small boost to get startet. Im happy they dont put out really good ships that actually could be overpowered. :-) I just think they need to take these steps in a slow maner to avoid making it pay to win

[@RayHorn5128088056]

Fdev can sell credits for ARX, if they wish.

[@wolff6592]

I think this is a good compromise that fdev has come up with. I've put the years of grind and work into getting my game experience to a decent level. This model doesn't affect that. Giving noobs a decent prebuilt fighter xeno fighter or hauler brings the younger gen into the game. It's not a pay to win update but a way for them to survive the bastard trolls and gankers who kill them for fun. These pre-built (for those of you cmdrs who don't remember) are to get fresh blood into the game. When I first started I almost quit cause I was constantly getting attacked by gankers and trolls (you know who you are bastards) for no reason whatsoever unprovoked that is tasteless incredibly ignorant to attack a noob then they quit the game forever. And yes i know there is A SAFE PILOT FEDERATION ZONE but I know some you bastards create new game to get into that region just to terrorize cause you can't fight the real OGers. That's why ED are losing to NMS SC or SF. You trolls are destroying a potentially almost perfectly true limitless open game. This is a compromise which works. I think. If you don't understand wtf I'm talking about... your the problem n chances are the bastard ganker/troll

[@RigorMortis666]

their business model and communication is utter garbage elite ISN'T attracting new players. From the start of Odyssey, with every update this game is sadly going down the drain trying to monetize a nearly dead horse like that is not the way imo they refuse to listen to good ideas, many core players of ED have them, me included, i've whole setup on how to implement different specialist npcs as your crew, with bigger the ship - more specialist, limited to max 4, those are for instance : astro miner, xeno biologist, trade specialist, smuggler, powerplay agent just to name a few, abilities of some : miner - operating drone-like fighter to ease prospecting and with better skill - better yield of asteroids he choses or navigates player to biologist - also operating drone but on planets or in space, helping to scan, could also have better yield bonus trade specialist - workaround of fixing the bloody galaxy map for trade routes, he could have his own database similar to inra poiting you out for markets with profitable sales smuggler - black market related, for him i've no specific idea, but maybe some scan scrambler when attemtping to land, bonuses for seling in market where you've grinded up pirate reputation etc powerplay agent - if they do something relevant in PP2.0 there will be ideas for him too there also was a cool guy who did ship interiors for ED, but sadly he had took his own life, just wanted to send respects and maybe for this someone will remember his work good video, i mostly agree with Your piont of view Cmdr Mechan. o7