At the Foot of Lead Mountain #4 28mm Thirty Years War

[@thekrausecollection15mmmin53]

Davvid, as you well know, I’m not much of a skirmish player😂 I much rather build to feel like I have real armies on the table. I think Ralph is right you start off with the skirmish game get a field forward and build from there, but I can tell you if you look at my imperial army and my Swedish army that I enjoy large presentations. I loved the Armati rule set. I have his expansion covering the Renaissance but seeing a more in depth version would be very interesting. I play pike and shotte with some house adaptations to reflect MY own perspective of the 30 years war. My shorts is more integrated to the unit. It’s not separate. But I love playing 30 years war. It’s a change in warfare and rock, paper and scissors but to be honest, it’s even more than that if you based the rules on the constraints of the imperial armies versus the opportunities of the Gustaf Adolphus version, you can have a really very interesting game that really requires much more thought and approach to the battle and then just mainly lining things up and seeing who can smash each other with better die rolls. I find this period fascinating and at the same time deadly. Bad blood, religious heretics and national passions all boiling on the battlefield

[@dw5723]

I agree with you when you say that the small round multibases look similar to a group of reenactors coming together, it doesn't give you this sense of an overwhelming formidable force gathered together. I also share an interest in doing 30YW but also like you I've found it quite difficult to find people with a shared interest. I have only heard good things about Osprey's systems like Lion's Rampant and The Men Who Would Be Kings so if you went with Pikemen's Lament you would most likely be marrying a good ruleset at least.

[@ZenMiniPainting]

I think I am coming to terms with the idea of getting these 28mm figures based up for Pikeman's Lament, and then "doing it properly" with 15mm or 10mm at a later date. I may have to concede and adopt the Sharpe aesthetic in this case.

[@Corvinuswargaming1444]

That Imperial infantry regiment is a big pain to glue together. The metal accessories especially the musket rests are frustrating especially if you’re trying to build a large army

[@ZenMiniPainting]

I’m honestly not sure that I’ll do a large rank & flank army in 28mm. The more I think about it, the more I think I might just go for the 3,2,1 round basing system championed by Pikeman’s Lament. I think Khurasan’s 15mm offerings are far nicer, and the effect of Tercios and massed Pike & Shotte would likely look way better in the smaller scale.

[@Corvinuswargaming1444]

@@ZenMiniPainting I agree with making the units look more impressive which is why I switched to 15mm for the most part. As for rules I like Pikeman’s Lament. You don’t need a lot of units to get a game going, but I prefer to use less pikemen and more musketeers and horses to get that small war feel.

[@RalphAstley]

We all go through this. I have never wargamed this period other than a few games of By Fire and Sword (Eastern Renaissance rules) but my own collection of unpainted 17th century minis is way too heavy to lift on its own. Most peoples' plans far exceed their capability to complete and the end goal is so far off that enthusiasm wanes. A solution might be to plan steps towards the final destination, rather like a settler crossing a continent and spending a year or so in a particular area before boarding the wagons again for the next stage of the journey. So aim to play a skirmish game such as Pikeman's Lament to begin with and gradually increase your forces till the point where you can play a larger game either using movement trays or rebasing your figures. That way you can keep the momentum going whilst getting some joy out of the figures. The one downside is rebasing, which I hate doing, but you can moderate this by beginning to base for larger games at the point where you have sufficient figures singly based for a skirmish game. If even Pikeman's Lament is difficult to reach, how about En Garde which requires a small group of figures?

[@ZenMiniPainting]

I suspect the problem I am facing here is that I do not know what that final destination is. I don’t think I really want at large 28mm rank & flank TYW army. I’ll probably go for 15/10/6mm for large battle games, if I ever develop the taste for it. I will say that the Rampant engine games, like Pikeman’s Lament, seem quite popular and easy to pick up and teach. We played Xenos Rampant at a club I attend the other day, my first game, and by turn three I had the hang of it. I think if I can throw together a pair of 28mm forces for Pikeman’s Lament, I could use that to encourage some historical wargaming amongst the more sci-fi and fantasy crowd.