Atheist STUMPED By How MATH Points To GOD (Epic Conversation!)

In this video, Stephen Meyer and Michael Shermer discus the perennial question: is Math invented or discovered? And if discovered, whose mind did it come from? Enjoy!
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[@JaylLaf]

Did you know that the Bible tells us _when_ these laws that govern the universe came to be? In Proverbs 8:22-31, Wisdom is speaking: _“The Lord acquired me at the beginning of his creation, before his works of long ago. I was formed before ancient times, from the beginning, before the earth began. I was born when there were no watery depths and no springs filled with water. Before the mountains were established, prior to the hills, I was given birth - before he made the land, the fields, or the first soil on earth. I was there when he established the heavens, when he laid out the horizon on the surface of the ocean, when he placed the skies above, when the fountains of the ocean gushed out, when he set a limit for the sea so that the waters would not violate his command, when he laid out the foundations of the earth. I was a skilled craftsman beside him. I was his delight every day, always rejoicing before him. I was rejoicing in his inhabited world, delighting in the children of Adam._

[@donthesitatebegin9283]

It must be true because you read it in a book and if that book wasn't true, you wouldn't believe it (!?).

[@cameronturner7077]

@@donthesitatebegin9283 How about over 2000 fulfilled prophecies in that book? How about the hundreds and hundreds of millions of life transforming testimonies coupled directly to the book? How about all 4 types of evidence admissile in a court of law supports the Bible to be documented historical fact? The truth is...... ignored, creating ignorance. In the mighty name of Christ Jesus I pray He bestow upon you, the Holy Spirit to give you eyes to see and ears to hear. God bless

[@cameronturner7077]

Praise be to God

[@almightyzentaco]

This scripture does not say anything about when the laws of physics and mathematics came about. Its talking about wisdom existing before the foundation of the world. I suppose these might be thought to be the same as natural laws but I think that's a leap.

[@JohnSpencer90]

@@cameronturner7077 How about the claims of genocide committed by the biblical God, how about the biblical conclusion that God decided to commit suicide, and used humans to assist him in this act?

[@d.d.7287]

Every time I hear Stephen Meyer having these sorts of discussions with people of opposing views it stands out to me how gracious and complimentary he is towards the person on the other side of the argument. That's really refreshing in our modern combative culture.

[@justingary5322]

Stephen Meyer speaking FACTS 🔥. AMEN 🙏 ❤️ 👊. New Atheism heralded by Richard Dawkins, Matt Dillahunty, Aaron Ra and others has failed and Michael Shermer is speaking nonsense clinging to questions rather than seeking answers. I've been wanting to study Euclidean mathematics as I'm a 24 year old Christian Apologist working as a teacher and counselor so yeah I see unhealthy information being spread through secular and religious beliefs in families and people all of the time which is why I don't always attend church because I'm studying The Bible alone in DA ZONE 😂. I've been watching Christian Apologetics videos since 2020 so these channels are really helpful especially on KZbin and social media. This has nothing to do with the video but please listen if you want to otherwise leave it alone and ignore it. Hello my name is Justin and I'm a fellow Christian and Apologist but I'm also a college graduate. I'm not a closed minded Theist as I have nothing against Atheists or unbelievers as I speak to them often to understand their reasons for unbelief but we as Christians are convinced of God's Existence due to many real factors). I'm not trying to convert anyone or convince anyone to become Christians as that's The Holy Spirit's job to help people believe but only explain why I believe in Jesus Christ. There's actually evidence of God's Existence in Christianity. First of all there's proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed in history since the writings of Tacitus, Josephus Flavius, Pliny the younger and other historical documents prove that He was living two thousand years ago that even scholars both religious and Atheists agree with historically speaking but not that He's The Divine Son of God because obviously they don't. I'm going to give you historical and archeological evidence for God's Existence as The Scriptures have prophecies that predate the events recorded in them by several millennia including Matthew, Hosea and Zechariah which prophesy accurately of the people of Israel becoming a nation again after over 1900 years of being scattered around the nations since the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. spoken of by Christ in Matthew 23:29-24:3 and returning to their homeland after The Holocaust with Jerusalem as their capital in 1948 exactly as Jesus The Christ said. The prophets including Daniel spoke of the time where several world empires would arise and fall including the Babylonian kingdom, Medes and Persians, Roman Empire, and Saladin and the Muslims which went in consecutive order for the past few millennia. The people of Israel becoming a nation after The Holocaust in 1948 (ironically the melting point of gold as God compares Israel to gold that's tested in fire in Zechariah 13:8 and Jeremiah 16:15) exactly how Jesus The Christ said would happen since God us everything to come in The Scriptures and not just because people were working towards as Atheists claim which are impossible for any regular man to predict. Just before anyone says Christianity is a white man's religion made to oppress blacks during slavery you obviously aren't aware that the first Christians were Jews in The Middle East and that Christianity just like any religion can be used by evil and corrupt people to oppress others but you forget that the first Abolitionists/Civil Rights activists were Christians who sought to abolish slavery, racism, segregation, injustice and prejudice throughout American history. Jesus The Christ loves you enough not to give you what we all deserve which is God's Wrath by His Own Blood. Charles Darwin didn't originally come up with The Theory of Evolution over 200 years ago as it is mentioned in the writings of Ancient Greeks who believed in Demons that gave knowledge to philosophers. Evolution makes no sense when nothing has evolved after thousands of years of human history and supposedly the first creature came from primordial sludge several millions of years ago funny how they won't believe that God an Eternal Almighty Spirit Being created us from the Earth) which came from a supermassive expansion of matter at high temperature that inexplicably created everything in the known universe that supposedly came from nothing billions of years ago. How did the organs evolve before there were bones, skin, substance and how did any creatures see before eyes evolved? I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" and I'm not convinced of macro Evolutionary biology whereas I accept micro Evolution like speciation and adaptation but not macro Evolution because there's no evidence of it nor clear observable examples of it where living creatures evolve into other kinds of species plus the fact that fossils don't show evidence of evolution and genetic entropy rules out evolution. The question begs how did two genders evolve from a common ancestor with a perfectly hospitable and sustainable environment with breathable oxygen and resources to survive on inexplicably? Atheists have the burden of proof to explain how everything came to be and why our existence is possible without the Existence of God from an godless perspective just as Christians have to provide evidence of God's Existence and the validity of His Word. Evolution requires life to already exist in order to take any effect in living organisms so it doesn't account for the existence of Life and reality. Also evolution is impossible because it goes against The Law of entropy and the second Law of thermodynamics because evolution makes things better whereas nothing continues to get better but decays and turns to absolute destruction in the end. Mark Ridley an Evolutionist said "No evolutionist whether gradualist or punctuationist uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of The Theory of Darwinian Evolution as opposed to special Creation". God's Existence is made perfectly known and observable in the universe as demonstrated in His Handiwork in the intelligently designed manner that Creation was made, human consciences and consciousness historical and archaeological evidence of God's Word being valid history, fulfillment of Bible Prophecies God in His Holiness and Righteousness could give us what we deserve in Hell for our since but He's merciful to give us free will to choose to accept or reject His gift of salvation by grace through faith in His Son Jesus. I don't mean this is any condescending manner but if you'd like to discuss The Scriptures with me or have me listen to your view on anything my instagram account is Savage Christian Kombatant

[@therick363]

Indeed mature conversation is a lost art

[@therick363]

@@justingary5322there you go lying again Justin. Will you run away like always?

[@RodMartinJr]

*_Yes!_* That truly is refreshing. It's something that is growing easier and easier even for me -- a sinner with a Huge ego. There is quite a contrast between Meyer who remains humble but intensely hungry to learn, and Shermer who remains certain of his own viewpoint and indifferent about learning. 😎♥✝🇺🇸💯

[@StudentDad-mc3pu]

Gracious, Complimentary and utterly deluded.

[@seankenney7756]

I’m convinced Michael Shermer, and atheists like him, don’t want to believe in God. It’s not about evidence for him, he doesn’t want God to be real.

[@katpoohtoo]

Truth. There is too much evidence that God exists, but atheists DON'T WANT God to exist, so they deny, deny deny, and they have to keep explaining the complex mechanics of the machinery within the cell by pushing time back into deeper time as if creation can be explained by time without an Intelligent Designer . Back in the '90's Rush Limbaugh told an atheist caller about the symbiotic and engineered perfection of DNA that could not have happened by a mindless nothing, and the caller admitted that he hid behind the Theory of Evolution only because he didn't want God to exist, not because there was proof that God didn't exist.

[@RS54321]

I agree. You can see the wall come up.

[@richardgregory3684]

@@katpoohtoo _There is too much evidence that God exists_ What evidence? Which god? _Back in the '90's Rush Limbaugh told an atheist caller about the symbiotic and engineered perfection of DNA that could not have happened by a mindless nothing_ What did Rush Limbaugh known about molecular biology? What's symbiotic about DNA/ And DNA is very far from perfect. It contains all kinds of leftover junk and errors. if you looked at human DNA and concluded it was designed, you'd also conclude the designer was an incompetent bungler, or an idiot, or both.

[@metodalif4770]

Interesting observation.

[@dylanpark4144]

Just not enough evidence

[@robfielding100]

I was a mathematics teacher for 4 years and then a lecturer for 33 years. The more mathematics I learnt the more I realised just how much more there was to discover. I am not particularly religious but as time passes I see more evidence of a creators handiwork in the universe (or even universes!).

[@davegaskell7680]

Can you give a couple of examples of recent things that you have seen that make you think those things are evidence of the creator's handiwork?

[@BigKWS]

@@davegaskell7680 If the universe isn't evidence of a divine creator, then what is it evidence of? And how would you know?

[@davegaskell7680]

@@BigKWS Ah, the classic argument from ignorance. Just because you can't imagine any other possibility than "God did it" doesn't mean God did it. And even if it did mean that God did it, you have no idea which one.

[@BigKWS]

@@davegaskell7680 Sure I do. But you still didn't answer the questions.

[@rodbrewster4629]

If the universe operated adverse to physical laws that would better evidence for a God. However that's not what we observe.

[@calebaronhalt3242]

I love this channel because you make me slow down and focus on a small portion of a big conversation. I've probable watched all the full conversations that you've posted but forget 99% of it. Thanks for what you do. God bless.

[@christopher_ecclestone]

Most mathematicians agree that Math is discovered, not invented. They see themselves as kind of archaeologists uncovering more information the deeper they dig.

[@joshua2707]

Very descriptive and thought provoking analogy!

[@billjohnson9472]

no, they don't

[@vulgarresponse7080]

I love the way that athiests believe that they are experts in all Scientific disciplines even though they are not qualified to speak on such matters, such arrogant fools!

[@godswill2260]

@@billjohnson9472nature points to math existing before pen and paper did. Try again

[@billjohnson9472]

@@godswill2260 no, math was invented by humans. It is like saying that all conceptual thoughts must have been transmitted to us by gods.

[@ingaz6565]

“Mathematics is the language in which God has written the universe” ― Galileo Galilei

[@DM-dk7js]

Didn’t the church HATE him???

[@TyrannosaurusRex1997]

​@@DM-dk7jsCatholic Church *

[@saintmalaclypse3217]

Yeah they started saying that to look good after mathematics disproved a bunch of the garbage in the Bible. They had a good PR team who tried to get out in front of it.

[@TyrannosaurusRex1997]

@@saintmalaclypse3217 Source?

[@nauticalmiles8752]

​@@saintmalaclypse3217 " mathematics disproved bunch of the garbage in the bible " that's very interesting so what exactly mathematic disprove in the bible?

[@donn07]

The atheist man is really a nice guy listening to the explanations and doesn't just interrupt like many other atheists do.

[@say10..]

The Christian guys were nice too and did not threaten anyone with eternal torture like many other Christians do.

[@PrivateSi]

I think you mean aggressive, ignorant Christain mass debaters.. Thick, loud, abusive, obtuse, deluded liars.

[@Robert-ct6bc]

@@say10.. Stephen C. Meyer is a demonstrable liar and as such a sock-puppet in the service of the Discovery Institute, an anti-science creationist cult. Where they do no research at all and of which one of its founders Howard F. Ahmanson, Jr. openly wants to replace democracy with a fundamentalist theocracy. How nice of him.

[@moreplease998]

I'm a scientist who leans more towards atheism than theism. I've been in a prolonged discussion with a young earther about several things to do with the idea of an infinite god and one thing he noted to me was that I was nothing like he expected me to be (he knew of my atheistic leanings and complete dismissal of young earth before we met). He thought I'd be more dogmatic and assertive about what the truth is, but there's huge unknowns in this topic and anyone honest will acknowledge the uncertainties. In my experience most atheistic scientists are honest in this way. I've had the pleasure of having a drink with Laurence Krauss after a lecture he gave and even he is like this, and he's well noted for his atheistic leanings I think people sometimes mix up being strongly anti religion with being anti gods in general.

[@Robert-ct6bc]

@@say10.. He keeps up a "nice" fassade..yet, he is a professional liar for a right wing propaganda mill. Meyers Boss Howard F. Ahmanson, Jr. openly wants to replace democracy with a fundamentalist theocracy. He told the Orange County Register in 1985: "My goal is the total integration of biblical law into our lives." He stated since that "I may have had 'a plan to change American society' once....Now I'm just trying to be faithful with what I have." 1) The fact that the Di attempted to teach ID in schools and the vast amount of money he pumps into his propaganda mill, tells a whole different story. 1)"Avenging angel of the religious right" By Max Blumenthal Published January 6, 2004 The wedge paper, outlining a strategy a strategy is aslo one of his "actions" in this regard...a paper signed by Meyer and many others with no scientific integrety. Which that states and aims for, among other nonsense: “"To replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God" Is this what counts as unbiased inquiry to you? Does that sound like people who are interested in the truth about how the world works, seriously? Or does this sound more like some frauds who are only interested in their fundamental Christian Agenda?

[@offthematrix5310]

I have programmed FM synthesizers for years and noticed that the frequency ratios that are needed to emulate acoustic instruments like a French Horn are ratios that correspond to the Fibonacci Sequence. The sequence can be found in the proportions of biology through out nature. I use the sequence as frame work for when I program instruments. The realism of my sound programs for the DX7 go way beyond any of the patches I find for the instrument. So what I discovered supports Stephen Meyer's points.

[@creationistynj9382]

If you don´t know, *The Bible is codified with advanced mathematical patterns known as GEMATRIA.* Find out what has to do the number 73 with the Bible and how this number is UNIQUE in mathematics. To my knowledge, the number 73 represents de Holy Father YHWH and the number 37 represents de Son Yeshua (Jesus). *Numeric patterns of 37 and 73 in the Bible* kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWjYhmakf5qUd7csi=0Ti6QxRsncIMVHjc

[@MrSlovanprofessor]

it does not support anything - the law of nature that's all what you can reasonably say.

[@NoThankYouToo]

“At some point, I don’t even know what I’m talking about. …” The single most intelligent thing Michael Shermer has ever said.

[@hllymchll]

he should've realized that sooner 😂 even when I was deep into atheism I never liked him lol

[@RodMartinJr]

Sad, but true. Shermer seems to be an intelligent fellow, but he stumbles far too often on *_Logical Fallacies_* and remains ignorant of his muddy thinking. Certainty will do that. One's own certainty clouds the vision, narrowing the focus so that all the evidence which *_could_* prove him wrong remains invisible to him. 😎♥✝🇺🇸💯 Reference: *_Dumb Genius: How intelligence is sometimes its own worst enemy_*

[@craigwillms61]

Sometimes they say the quiet part out loud. We all get there Michael, some just get there quicker...

[@Krillian777]

I would love for Shermer to go back, watch this video, and park on that statement, "At some point, I don’t even know what I’m talking about..." b/c I truly think it could be an epiphany for him. If you think of nothing as the origin and foundation for everything, then it logically follows that you should believe that language is superfluous given that all words are stripped of any grounded meaning. That is, it's all nonsense emanating from nothing. But deep down, Michael and just about everyone, know this isn't true.

[@Kube_Dog]

Shermer is making a living, making a name and fame, out of being a skeptic. He's not even good at it, because he ignores evidence and proof. That's not a skeptic. That's a guy protecting his career.

[@jacobembry6709]

Callen was so proud of himself for remembering the pythagorean theorem lol

[@scottshanahan3827]

I'm curious about this because I don't know much about him (Callen). Is he a believer? It's just interesting that he's hosting this

[@ron88303]

It's pretty low-hanging fruit.

[@jacobembry6709]

@scottshanahan3827 Right? It is weird for such a discussion to take place on his podcast. As for him being a believer he's not quite there. He's one of those "Religion is good for people" " When you look at things there's gotta be more to it than what it seems" but won't take the leap and become Christian. ( yet)

[@justingary5322]

A squared plus B squared equals C squared DUH 🙄

[@justingary5322]

@@jacobembry6709 So he's like Jordan Peterson

[@dm4728]

I had Stephen Meyers book about 10 years or more ago called 'Signature in the Cell'

[@undercoveragent9889]

Explains why your IQ got stuck at around 10.

[@johandupreez4693]

That moment of realisation is absolutely precious, that the mathematics exists and is clearly recognised in your brilliant minds implies that there must be a mind of origin and its not yours. So recognise the opportunity to believe and delve into the word of God and expect revelation that you never thought possible, dare to believe.

[@mshakespeare]

We should all delve into the Word of God indeed! It is a mathematical mastery of impossible complexity in itself. The 1611 King James Bible is packed to overflowing with unbelievable numerology, like the following; •Genesis - First Chapter OT - GOD speaks exactly 343 words (7³) • Matthew - First Chapter NT - GOD speaks exactly 49 words (7²) • Mentions of JESUS/Jesus in both Testaments = 980 (7 x (70+70)) • Total number of words in First and Last Chapters of the OT combined = 980 =(7 x (70+70)) • First New Testament mention of uppercase LORD = 777th word of the chapter. • Mentions of first and last words in the Bible (In + Amen) in the first and last books, (Genesis & Revelation) = 777 • Mentions of God + Jesus in books Genesis & Revelation = 343 (7³) • All words starting with the letters A & Z (Beginning and End) in the first and last books, (Genesis & Revelation) = 7777 • Mentions of God + Spirit = 7 x 707 = 4949 • Mentions in the four gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) of, the Lord + Jesus + Christ = 777 • Every uppercased mention (Both Testaments) of the name of the LORD + Jesus combined = 7777 (LORD/GOD/I AM/JEHOVA/JAH/BRANCH/KING/JESUS/Jesus) • Total mentions (Both Testaments) of the first and last words in the first and last verses of the Bible. (In + earth + The + Amen) = 77777 That's just a small sample of the ones relating to "7", there are thousands of others, including many based around the numbers 666 and 153. My favorite one of all is; If you count every single word and number in the entire of the 1611 KJV, the grand total comes to 823,543 - which is 7 to the power of 7 (7x7x7x7x7x7x7) The long-running arguments over the translation, the original languages, and the "root" meanings of words are now all completely irrelevant. God knew the end, right from the beginning. He had to personally give His guidance in the writing of this incredible Book for all this to happen. I highly recommend looking up the channel "Truth is Christ", it is where I first stumbled across these amazing revelations. This is but a small sample. God bless.

[@creationistynj9382]

If you don´t know, *The Bible is codified with advanced mathematical patterns known as GEMATRIA.* Find out what has to do the number 73 with the Bible and how this number is UNIQUE in mathematics. To my knowledge, the number 73 represents de Holy Father YHWH and the number 37 represents de Son Yeshua (Jesus). *Numeric patterns of 37 and 73 in the Bible* kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWjYhmakf5qUd7csi=0Ti6QxRsncIMVHjc

[@hankhooper1637]

I like Meyer so much! He is both super intelligent and super gracious to the other person. And he always seems ready to answer objections with that grace. Not defensive or haughty.

[@Robert-ct6bc]

And jet..he is a demonstrable liar and as such a sock-puppet in the service of the Discovery Institute, an anti-science creationist cult. Where they do no research at all and of which one of its founders Howard F. Ahmanson, Jr. openly wants to replace democracy with a fundamentalist theocracy.

[@hankhooper1637]

@ScienceNow- if that's true, why doesn't Michael Shermer (MS) say that? I mean MS clearly disagrees with Meyer about God but he isn't calling him a liar or saying he is wrong about the science.

[@Robert-ct6bc]

@@hankhooper1637 You have to ask Shermer that....still Meyers Boss Howard F. Ahmanson, Jr. openly wants to replace democracy with a fundamentalist theocracy. He told the Orange County Register in 1985: "My goal is the total integration of biblical law into our lives." He stated since that "I may have had 'a plan to change American society' once....Now I'm just trying to be faithful with what I have." 1) The fact that the Di attempted to teach ID in schools and the vast amount of money he pumps into his propaganda mill, tells a whole different story. 1)"Avenging angel of the religious right" By Max Blumenthal Published January 6, 2004 The wedge paper outlining a strategy a strategy is aslo one of his "actions" in this regard...a apaper signed by Meyer. Which that states and aims for, among other nonsense: “"To replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God" Is this what counts as unbiased inquiry to you? Does that sound like peole who are interested in the truth about how the world works, seriously? Or does this sound more like some frauds who are only interested in their fundamental Christian Agenda?

[@Paul-id2zt]

Fractals and the Mandelbrot set are mind-blowing, showing that there's infinity in a finite universe through mathematics

[@blchamblisscscp8476]

You should pick up a copy of The Black Swan by N. N.Taleb, a professional (non-academic) mathematician. He discusses Mandelbrotian expectations in his book - bell curves are pointless most of the time, misleading usually. I mean for risk analysis and prediction.

[@-----GOD-----]

Wow! What a discovery! I had no idea that the universe was finite. I'm going to call everyone I know to give them the news!

[@JediYutu]

Pi too.

[@Anistasia5]

I myself went through the same thing. I was a staunch atheist at the start of my science career. I then went agnostic. Now through colleagues and working in the field I can say that I finally understand how God works through us and have found religion. I find these conversations interesting. Thank you for posting.

[@hirenumradia7970]

I would be interested to know what changed your mindset and what evidence you have seen that supports your new worldview.

[@dentonhahn2907]

Good video! I like how respectful the discussion was, i dont think i have ever seen Shermer so respectful and quiet. Interesting discussion. Thanks again for all the great work!

[@snaphaan5049]

He always is but he doesn't like personal confrontations. He does reveal he's true feelings in pen though.

[@undercoveragent9889]

Yeah. Never interrupt a m0r0n when he is making an a$$ out of himself.

[@roryharvey2727]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Stephen Meyer!!!!!

[@CommKommando]

It’s funny how the man with faith seems to be happier than the man without. Just based on his physical composition and the way he conducts himself.

[@samuaa]

Yeah because he s living in an illusion

[@19037vinny]

Or is he coming across as arrogant. He's sounding super wise, while talking gobbledygook. The truth is hidden from the wise and revealed to mere children. Says scripture. In the Beginning was the Word. That takes precedence over Maths.

[@David-ps1rz]

“Not everyone agrees with that” and “that’s not necessarily the case” are not very compelling rebuttals.

[@ron88303]

Everyone can have an opinion, which is what they're really debating: opinions.

[@justin10292000]

​@ron88303 Nope. They are debating Truth and error.

[@justingary5322]

I mean yeah 👍

[@SDsc0rch]

in the beginning was the Word LOGOS

[@marksnow7569]

... or Tao

[@mirandahotspring4019]

Wrong! The universe and earth were around for billions of years before the evolution of language.

[@Yuyup7334]

Yes, actually the apostle John was substantially saying, "In the beginning was The Mind". And now, mathematicians are saying the same thing. Isn't that amazing?

[@kos-mos1127]

The Cosmos was around before there was a mind or any language.

[@otallono]

@@kos-mos1127 Proof?

[@ArielIsaac8111]

I love how though there’s so many different opinions being discussed there is still a large amount of respect and calmness in the air !

[@user-fp4dr1ne7z]

“If you’re right, I guess I’ll find out” famous last words

[@joshua2707]

I’m not much of a mathematician, so this is new and fascinating to me. Thank you for sharing it. I’ll add my two cents as I grasp the concept! Edit: So I got mathematical Platonism, that wasn't too hard! And if I'm understanding this correctly, this idea mentioned in the video (can't wait for this book Meyer mentioned) is so astounding is because mathematics provides descriptions/predictions for natural phenomena that are apparently unrelated to abstract mathematical concepts made _prior to the phenomena being discovered._

[@marksnow7569]

All mathematical concepts are abstract, but all reality can be described by mathematics.

[@user-ww4uw9ro6d]

@@marksnow7569 But not all mathematics describe reality.

[@marksnow7569]

@@user-ww4uw9ro6dPossibly, but the point is that any given piece of mathematics *may, sooner or later,* turn out to be useful for describing an aspect of reality.

[@user-ww4uw9ro6d]

@@marksnow7569 thought you’d say that. That’s a HUGE burden of proof on your part to support that assertion. And before you say “the same applies to you”, there are plenty of things that in reality that can’t be captured by maths including emotions, consciousness, aesthetics, etc.

[@joshua2707]

@@user-ww4uw9ro6d Couldn't have said it better. All reality being describable by mathematics is demonstrably incorrect.

[@lemonwatersalt]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...All things were made by Him, and without Him was not any THING made that was made. ✝️✝️✝️

[@kos-mos1127]

This is made up.

[@ron88303]

Each person has their own opinion. You are entitled to yours.

[@lemonwatersalt]

​​@@ron88303fact, not an opinion. Watch again.

[@justin10292000]

​@@ron88303The post is Truth, not opinion.

[@kos-mos1127]

@@justin10292000 This post is the opinion of man.

[@ericallen3006]

It was a long time since I was taking a calculus class, but I remember the teacher showing us a bunch of examples of the Fibonacci Sequence being found in nature. It was mind-blowing.

[@joaquinaround8477]

This is the best conversation I've seen in a long time

[@nightwng19]

Your videos are great please keep them coming I enjoy your commentary!

[@circumnavigator8177]

Michael Schirmer really does not do credit to the scientific community. Being a professional cynic is not being a professional scientist. Schirmer refuses evidence that slaps him in the face and then gaslights those who oppose him. Thinking specifically of his stupid interaction with Bill Napier, a leading comet and impact scientist. Refusing his studies and evidence for no reason and then smearing his critics. Platforming him is like having all the establishment present at once. He is the hive mind of "the experts". This particular performance is amusing, the soul crushing immutability of math leaves no ambiguity for him to gaslight through. Great video

[@drillyourarguments]

athiesm + human = intellectually dishonest Psalm 14:1 human.

[@houmm08]

What evidence???????

[@RodMartinJr]

Shermer has 2 main problems: 1) He has a BRAND to protect, so he has a conflict of interest in *_any_* discussion. His brand is the *_potent, Negative BIAS of Doubt_* called "skepticism." 2) He has arrived at CERTAINTY. And a funny thing happens when anyone achieves certainty on any topic -- *_they STOP Looking!_* This is sometimes called "hubris" -- a narrowing of awareness which cripples intelligence. Because of #1 and #2, Shermer finds himself perpetually using *_Logical Fallacies_* to bolster his position on any topic. He's a master of it. When I called him out on it, with regard to a _Scientific American_ magazine article, the publication revoked my commenting privileges. Such are the times in which we live: When a scientific magazine becomes anti-science and anti-logic. 😎♥✝🇺🇸💯 Reference: *_Dumb Genius: How intelligence is sometimes its own worst enemy_* (hardcover, paperback, ebook)

[@sinjinbritt3371]

You DO realize that Meyer isn't a scientist, right?

[@untoldhistory2800]

@@sinjinbritt3371you don’t need to be a scientist to see evidence of God’s existence

[@petersiska7510]

We discover laws of universe such as laws of thermodynamics that exist independently from our mind but that does not prove that they were created

[@gchristiansenUT]

To the creator of this channel. I just want to take the time to thank you for all the work you are doing. I've watched so many of your videos and commentary. These discussions are bringing me back to God and wanting to live a Christian lifestyle. I'm sure you are making a bigger difference in the world than you can imagine. I say this in part as I'm just now taking the time to thank you and I'm sure there are many out there like me as well.

[@maybejack247]

I know that a lot of your ministry is focused on apologetics specifically surrounding the existence of God, but I've seen how passionately you've set forth the cross of Jesus Christ itself in certain videos and would love to see more of that! I want to see that passion. It puts me on the edge of my seat, and I want to know more of your thoughts on the reality of this first century Jewish teacher who calls himself God in your life today. You've helped me more than you know, and I think the greatest moments for me have been those in which you've shared the gospel at the end of a video because you simply couldn't help it. I can tell you mean it, and it's almost infectious. I'm not there, but a growing part of me wants to be.

[@kos-mos1127]

Passion and emotion has never moved me. People always tell me I am not emotional or never get excited. I can get the worst new ever and no one would know I received bad news.

[@maybejack247]

@@kos-mos1127 Nobody I know knows I feel this way. Emotion itself is an entirely different thing to the expression of that emotion. I hide many emotions from the eyes of the people around me. I've also hidden my emotions from myself, and it's taken me many years to even recognize that fact. Do you ever think that your emotions may be in the darkness?

[@steeziooo]

@@maybejack247ur literally being fueled by emotions to write the comment, cuz if not you wouldn’t have felt the need to make it. Simple

[@PraisetheLord771]

Hi Jack - if you have any questions about the gospel or would like to learn more, feel free to reach out! I know what it's like to be learning about God and wanting to know more. Praying for God to fill your search with wisdom and to guide you in the right direction. Jesus has changed my life for the far, far better and given me much purpose and direction

[@pebble100c]

I hope that DailyDoseOfWisdom replys to your comment. I don't see anything particularly emotional in it, instead it's a honest self-examination. Jesus said that we have to be born again to enter the Kingdom of God & ultimately an eternal relationship with Him in heaven is what He offers to every one of us. Rather than give you more intellectual arguments for receiving & believing in Him, I will give you my personal testimony. First as a researcher & engineer, I think that this video's 6:57-8:00 was a better explanation of what I believe of God & the universe than I could have expressed myself. But before my occupational pursuits, I was a child with the most wonderful grandad ever. He was a product of the Depression- who first lost everything in the bank, a wannabe lawyer who never got to law school, a teacher then real estate investor then Santa Fe Railroad employee. He lost his leg in an accident at work then ended up a rancher at Portales, NM. My mom was his older daughter & I was her oldest son. But at 5 years old, he was my hero. From being around him, I intuitized that he knew who he was & that he knew God. I remember hopping on him while he was in bed, him saying, "Bring Napoleon over here," me bringing his prosthetic leg from the corner of the bedroom & watching him strap it on. He fed me & my siblings cow cakes & peanuts. He gave us Wrigley's chewing gum. One time, my sister & I even got to ride on the SF Railroad to Clovis with him & I got to eat a Almond Joy candy bar, which my mother never allowed. But, he suffered a series of heart attacks & died on my 6th birthday. Fortunately, I also had Christian parents & grandparents in my life who were supportive of me. Before I continue, please realize that God will meet you exactly the way that fits your needs. Finding God is a process that each person must work through. He already knows everything about you. You need to seek your own unique experience(s) & assurance from Him. I hope that you can & will relate to mine. To continue, around 12-13 years old, I really read most of the bible & was seeking to know God. Jesus said that "Everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin." I looked at myself & found I couldn't go for a single day without telling a lie, or another lie to cover the first. So I realized I was a slave of sin. He also said that if you put any other relationship before Him, you were not worthy of Him. So, the bible teaches that Jesus is Lord & for us to be His disciples, He must become our Lord. As I kept seeking, I found my greatest struggle was to give up control over my life. I was completely depraved, fearful & self centered; but, when I looked at Jesus I saw a sacrificial life of healing, love & mercy- a life of resurrecting Lazarus then dying for humanity & being resurrected. Was I willing to commit to Him, or not? Was I willing to forgive those who had trespassed against me, or not? For several months, I struggled. Then there was a Billy Graham Crusade on TV that summer. I listened, then went to my bedroom, laid down & prayed once again to God. Suddenly His presence, Agape' love & forgiveness swept over me. He came into me. I cried, because in that moment it all made sense. I said, God you are real! I felt completely clean inside. At that moment I became a new person. It turns out that my sister, who was one year younger, also received Christ about the same time. We were both baptized within a month, which itself was another spiritual & powerful experience for me/us. So, a couple of points. It was easier for me to seek God, because I saw first-hand a spiritual love, peace & godliness that my grandfather had from his Father. Second, realize that Christian disciples are different & attractive because they have a relationship through Jesus with their spiritual Father in heaven, Who is their only source of power. They are simply vessels, He gives them freedom & life. I hope that there is a family member, a friend, a teacher, from your past, someone you knew or know, that you can say is a true Christian disciple. It all boils down to this- are you willing to confess your sins, humble yourself as a child & receive the gift of faith in Christ as Paul taught? Then, "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God & His Righteousness AND ALL these things shall be added to you."

[@LightYagami-rz6su]

Marcus Aurelius- "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

[@peterbassey9668]

Sadly, that's hardly the algorithm that confronts us as humans. If Marcus Aurelius lived the life he advocated and met God after, he would find to his sore chagrin that NO MAN is good, no matter our effort to be so, and that for this cause another was sent to do the heavy lifting for us and only when we believe in Him is our despondent and decrepit lives merged with His and a gift of eternal life is handed over to us. We only gain merit of God when we come to Him under His own terms and not under ours.

[@LightYagami-rz6su]

@peterbassey9668 well we shall see. I do know this for a fact. Your Christian "God" doesn't exist. Especially if he created nature. His morals are anti nature. It's slave/heard morality. Your God morality was created by the weak for the weak. This is why religion gods don't exist. It goes against the laws of nature.

[@realitywins6457]

If AI gets to the point where two of them are debating whether they themselves self-assembled without any external intelligent agent creating them, we’ll be able to view the absurdity as an observer.

[@joshuavd5194]

if two AI are debating, its likely humans would not understand what they were saying.

[@albejaine]

You need to also suppose that your god has a source to his/its intelligence. Otherwise you could as well suppose that the universe always existed. The problem is that you are so brainwashed in your belief that you become wilfully dishonest with yourself.

[@josevasquez2220]

This is the greatest comment I’ve ever read. Thank you.

[@xchump]

lmao I was not expecting bryan callen to be on the other end of that table haha I cracked up when the camera switched to him

[@theplowman_11]

I really enjoy your videos. Thank you brother. Godbless.

[@chrisavila1501]

Good evening, I just want to ask, what books do you have on your bookshelf? Do you have a list of what you have? Thank you for all you do..GOD Bless

[@noelsajenmathew5472]

please its a request always try to mention these papers and books name so that people could read that would be helpful, Thank you.

[@murrayedgar4791]

Atheists do NOT try to disprove god. Theists try to prove it. Big difference.

[@baldbutton1983]

If math was invented we’d be able to change the formulas and make them mean whatever we wanted to, like we can with language. We can change the meanings of words, but we can’t change the values of golden ratio, Pi or even 2+2=4. These values exist outside of us

[@canchadhandlethat872]

Interesting video. Thanks for airing this clip

[@TheMARKofBLADEz]

he says we will hit a wall where you cant know.... nope. you either go with common sense or choose denial.

[@ron88303]

Everyone can have an opinion, which is all these are; opinions.

[@justin10292000]

​@ron88303 Nope. There is Truth and there is error, and THAT is what is being clearly presented in the video.

[@TheMARKofBLADEz]

@@justin10292000 lol probs gona say thats your truth 🤣

[@hyponomeone]

Hey! Would love to see a video where you cover some of the evidence of the shroud of turin. Its been amazing in my coming back to the faith. Cheers and blessings

[@ketovore1272]

What podcast is this from? I want to see full episode

[@Crazy__Canuck]

I used to get frustrated with people living in an echo chamber... I still kinda do... But I was the one really living in an echo chamber. I used to only watch "Atheists owning Creationists" but I would never watch the "Creationists owning atheists" videos. That has changed immensely.

[@kos-mos1127]

Creationist have never owned atheist. I have watched a full debate of this video and Meyers’s get destroyed to the point when he sounds like a broken robot. Brandon stops the video before the kid clothes came off.

[@somersetcace1]

Just keep in mind that if multiple videos can be made to appear reasonable, even though they take opposite positions, chances are it's because they were made with that in mind. In other words, no one is going to make a video that says "Creationist destroys atheist" or visa versa and put something in it that contradicts the claim. The sin of omission is strong in these videos.

[@hllymchll]

​@@kos-mos1127 I REALLY hope that was a typo. it's kid GLOVES lololol

[@saintmalaclypse3217]

Same here! And I come to these videos and see...Creationists OWNING strawmen. I've never found a Christian video without a LIE in the title. How ironic. But, they've been lying for 2000 years just to keep you profitable for 2000 years, so why would the internet be any different?

[@drillyourarguments]

@somers Me using athiest 'logic': "you have no evidence of omission so therefore you are making omission up. you just have faith that theres omission."

[@blackswan7568]

9:06 As someone who recently read Krauss's book, I enjoyed this quip😁

[@tylerc9206]

How about a link to the original (full) interview?

[@TheAntiSmug]

Shermer looked like he had a fire under his seat.)

[@somethingrandomyt8367]

Probably he looked upset

[@kos-mos1127]

Shermer was restringing himself so that Meyers’s can make his point.

[@justingary5322]

@@kos-mos1127 Dude stop

[@TheAntiSmug]

@@kos-mos1127 It's the look of cognitive dissonance, which can also come in the form of your excuse.

[@sidklem6645]

How how how do guys like Shermer keep the facade up? You can sense it, he knows he's wrong but just clinging to what gives him "relevance". It's really really sad to see all these guys like him shout louder and harder to keep their relevance even though they know they're wrong.

[@thomasmanfreda6145]

Seems like they have to try so hard.

[@lancep4164]

I agree. Deep down Shermer must know that Zeus is real.

[@MrSpock002]

Are we at a crossroads of better understanding of the mind of God as it relates to what He intended for the universe AND us???

[@andrewwarren654]

Very interesting comments there. Thanks for posting this.

[@mditt7]

Yes Michael. We can not know. FAITH is required.

[@grantbartley483]

It sounds to me that he's using rational argument.

[@coapa_760]

Just like everything else eu need faith .

[@charlieboy2587]

Faith is the excuse people give when they have no evidence

[@grantbartley483]

@@charlieboy2587 That's the atheist definition. By contrast, the meaning of 'faith' in the Bible, so for Christians, is, 'faith' ('pistis' in Greek) means trusting someone you have reasons to believe is trustworthy.

[@coapa_760]

@@charlieboy2587 your a bot fake page but I'll answer one time. You require faith in everything. What do u believe? U need faith for that too.

[@mellon9155]

You make great videos!

[@alohi79]

One of my favorite ppl and interviews

[@crucifixgym]

Combined within mathematics exists also music, which is most coldly explainable mathematically, but fully experienced by the listener without the use of the intellect, emotionally. This experience of music is on parallel ground with experiencing life in general. One can excise a theistic notion entirely and live in the theoretical mathematics of musical experience, or one can see it for what it is, a discovery that exists and operates on the human emotions without an explanation as it does with an explanation.

[@tomschoenke5519]

I think there are four options to the question 1. God exists and I believe: The evidence is everywhere 2. God exists and I don’t believe: I am waiting for the undeniable 3. God doesn’t exist and I believe: I wait for forever in wrongness 4. God doesn’t exist and I don’t believe: I am right, but my level of certainty and appreciation is solely based on my viewpoint. And the moral concept we live by seems to be just a suggestion.

[@ron88303]

I believe Descartes opted for either (1) or (3) as a hedge against a possible afterlife.

[@justin10292000]

​@ron88303 Option 1 is the Truth. If one denies it now, one will be redpilled soon enough!

[@davegaskell7680]

@@ron88303 It was Pascal. Pascal's Wager.

[@davegaskell7680]

@@justin10292000 Which of the hundreds of gods is it?

[@davegaskell7680]

(5) God may or may not exist but the available evidence is consistent with there not being a god so believing is purely based on faith

[@4tdaz]

I used to explain it this way: if you are in a box and all that is logical and all truth is in the box, who made the box? As soon as we find out there are limits and accept those limits, we cannot, by definition go further. Something must be revealed about that mystery beyond. The universe's beginning is one such limit. The only escape is to truly believe we ourselves are limitless and we just haven't discovered this. But that defies every reasonable person's experience of reality. We are finite asking infinite questions. It cannot fit in our brains. It must not.

[@brianmesser12]

That is a lot of big words that mean nothing .

[@DaysofElijah317]

⁠@@brianmesser12is your mind to small to understand what he is saying

[@brianmesser12]

@DaysofElijah317 show evidence , easy to say but your problem is you have zero evidence.

[@kos-mos1127]

What he is saying is the amount that we don’t know is infinite but our brains are limited.

[@brianmesser12]

@kos-mos1127 that is true but with put evidence for the supernatural or any way to investigate it we are left with the natural world .

[@VaticansHolocaust]

9:25 “At some point, I don’t even know what I’m talking about.” That is the only bit of wisdom Michael offered unto himself. Meyer understood Every question or challenge made by Michael better than Michael himself.

[@kos-mos1127]

Meyer did not understand the challenge he avoided and deflected challenges.

[@drillyourarguments]

@kosmo oh? how and where? timestamp?

[@justin10292000]

​@kos-mos1127 You are describing Schermer.

[@kos-mos1127]

@@justin10292000 Sherman answered his questions.

[@justingary5322]

@@kos-mos1127 Says the guy who said that Christianity is Evil

[@wes2393]

I majored in mathematics and it lead me directly back to God. At higher levels, the precision is beyond our comprehension

[@epicchannel4724]

It resides in the LLM training system we currently occupy.

[@Jericho119]

“If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6, and 9, then you would have the key to the universe.” - Nikola Tesla But that is very difficult to understand. Nikola Tesla is said to have once said: "If you recognize the meaning of the numbers 3, 6 and 9, you have the key to the universe." It is speculated that Tesla believed that these numbers could have a special meaning related to the laws of nature and the universe. There are many different interpretations and speculations about what Tesla might have meant by this statement, but there is no clear explanation for it. Some believe that these numbers could represent a mystery or pattern in nature, while others view it as a metaphorical or philosophical statement. Ultimately, the exact meaning of this statement remains a mystery and subject to speculation and interpretation.

[@ryngrd1]

Jesus gave us two great commands, love God, love your neighbor as yourself. Even physical matter obeys, with laws of energy (vibration), and laws of gravity (attraction)🙏

[@kos-mos1127]

Physics don’t obey the laws of energy. All objects are attracted to the center of a mass due to time being warped.

[@ryngrd1]

@@kos-mos1127 ok I changed it to physical matter. God loves you! 😅🙏🔥

[@saintmalaclypse3217]

Don't forget two of the great commands Jesus' dad gave us, too: Numbers 31:18 "But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (The Pedophilia Commandment) Leviticus 25:46 "And ye shall take them {the children of the strangers among you} as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour." (The Slavery Commandment) God really, REALLY wants you to have other people's children. I know it has nothing to do with mathematics, but you brought up "great commands", so I thought I'd contribute! Get out there and start snatching children for Jesus! (Unless you want to turn away from God's "morals"...?)

[@kos-mos1127]

@@santanoschsantosch3016 The whole universe obeying the laws of god is an assertion. Do you have evidence to back up your claim.

[@ryngrd1]

@@kos-mos1127 irrefutable evidence for the existence of God. Love is the evidence for the existence of God. The word love as defined in standard English language, is flexible enough to accurately describe whatever force created and sustains us. Please no more requests for evidence from internet athiests, we have all the evidence we will ever need or ever will need. Amen. 🔥✝️🙏😇♾️😎💯🙌🎄😇

[@44mickd]

I’ve always been fascinated about the precision of the distance from the earth and the size of the moon to perfectly fill the diameter of the sun during an eclipse. This and many other things make you think this is not by accident.

[@craigmarley5926]

Yes, right on! At the beginning of April I stood in my yard and watched the total solar eclipse. To say it was a lifetime experience is a gross understatement. When totality happened, you could stare at the event with your naked eyes and what I saw was beyond description. It was larger than I expected. There was this jet-black disk and around it was a silver dancing sparkler that backlit the high cumulous clouds. The instant the disc moved there was this blinding flash of light to signal the end. What is the probability of the moon and sun being EXACTLY the same apparent diameter? Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson says it is an "sublime coincidence." Yeah right! More accurately, designed that way.

[@timothyappleseed2986]

I think truth has always existed and always will. I think we come here to bear witness of what the truth is. It's not enough to think or feel what truth is. This physical world gives us the opportunity to flesh it out.

[@richardlefaive1944]

Einstein believed this, that's good enough for me.

[@richievaldez765]

Nikola Tesla believed this as well.

[@uair9]

He was a socialist too. Hence you are a socialist too.

[@victormeza7859]

40 YRS AGO, I DISCOVERED QUANTUM PHYSICS. LED ME TO BE IN AWE OF GOD WE LIVE IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD BY HIS GRACE AND LOVE FOR US

[@BB-rh2ml]

Your caps lock is stuck

[@undercoveragent9889]

Forty seconds ago I discovered that you are a brainless buffoon. What a coincidence.

[@nakkadu]

Whatever......crazy person

[@dariusdoodoo]

@@nakkadu sounds like you do not want God to exist. Is that correct, and if so, why?

[@nakkadu]

@@dariusdoodoo Nothing I said should lead you to that conclusion. You should think things based on the evidence in front of you. There's no evidence available to you that should make you think I don't want a god to exist.

[@MrSlovanprofessor]

I always like to listen what scientists have to say because they are really working with the natural existence that we live in and have their hands in this marvelous world. The rule is it has to be a true scientist that published peer reviewed articles in his/hers field in peer reviewed journals.

[@kilgen28]

This seems similar to what we call Classical Christian apologetics, explained in recent years by the late R. C. Sproul. Does anyone recognize this?

[@fr9714]

What we observe happening and try to explain is called science and math is a tool to help explain. It doesn't mean anything beyond that. It's just a leap of faith to say a entity like god created this. Math and science don't mention it at all. They neither prove nor disprove god. They just explain what we observe and that's all. We humans are inventing additional concepts like god but it has no bearing on the math science or the observed reality.

[@jakesmith6337]

If we discover a new species of finch did we invent the finch ?

[@jonathankim9502]

I think the most important summarizing part of the video 6:58 - "John Polkinghorne the great Cambridge physicist used to say "why does the reason within the mathematics that we develop on the basis of our deductive reasoning match and describe precisely the reason that is built into the universe? the design of the universe?" He says the best explanation for that is again theism. There it provides a principle of correspondence that -> the same God who made the design the rationality the orderly patterns we see in nature made our minds in such a way to discern the mathematical structure that is inherent in those in those systems and that's why we can do science"

[@danlopez.3592]

I don’t see why that is the best explanation for this. Can you think of a universe that would work without these principles?

[@username-yn5yo]

@@danlopez.3592Yeah, a universe which wasn’t describable or no universe at all. Plenty of other conceivable ways things could‘ve been. Also, we need to be careful, even if it couldn’t have been any other way, that still requires an explanation! *why* couldn’t it have been any other way? Theism offers an explanation for that too: Since we are made in gods likeness, God can only create intelligible worlds to us. How does atheism explain brute necessity? As far as I know, it cannot. It just asserts it without explanation.

[@danlopez.3592]

@@username-yn5yo that right there is your problem by saying “something requires an explanation.” No it does not. If we don’t have testable , provable evidence of something then we should just remain humble and say we don’t know yet but keep looking for evidence. This thinking left us with thousands of superstitions throughout history to try to explain things that science at the time couldn’t explain. You would be demanding that it was Zeus creating the lightening because he was angry, because you feel the need to have an explanation. I hope I would be there next to you saying that we don’t know what creates lightening which is the rational view.

[@username-yn5yo]

@@danlopez.3592 First you say „it doesn’t require explanation“ then you give a bunch of things that require explanations, like lightning. If everything within the world seems to require an explanation, why should we not believe the world as a whole requires one?

[@danlopez.3592]

@@username-yn5yo no. Nothing “requires” an explanation. Who would be requiring it? If we don’t have good evidence for something then let’s not try to explain it until we do.

[@lockebeez85]

Love your videos, brother. Keep these truths coming.

[@user-ed5ee8ru3n]

According to Islamic teachings, the first to be created was the "Pen" ( meaning writing tool, book, instruction manual, etc). And it ( pen) was instructed to write all details what / how/ when that will take place with regards to creation. The Blue print of the creation. Creation happened thereafter.

[@ktall6749]

That is the same argument used by CS Lewis when it comes to justice. Justice is an objective and universal concept independent of humanity. So what is its origin?

[@saintmalaclypse3217]

Give an example of "universal" justice, please.

[@drillyourarguments]

@saint pretty much every culture has or had a sense of right and wrong. you can literally look it up lol. Christ bore our sin on the cross. He bore the penalty, turned aside God’s judgment, God’s wrath, from us, and cancelled sin. The brokenness of our lives he restores; the shattered relationships He rebuilds in the context of the church; the new life that we human beings find in Christ is granted out of the sheer grace of God. It is received by faith as we repent of our sins and turn to Jesus. We confess Him as Lord, and bow to Him JOYFULLY. The Gospel is good news-the good news of what God has done in Jesus Christ. One day, He will make all things new. The good news culminates in a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness, where neither sin nor any of its effects can survive, and where we enjoy the presence of God forever inChrist bore our sin on the cross. He bore the penalty, turned aside God’s judgment, God’s wrath, from us, and cancelled sin. The brokenness of our lives he restores; the shattered relationships he rebuilds in the context of the church; the new life that we human beings find in Christ is granted out of the sheer grace of God. It is received by faith as we repent of our sins and turn to Jesus. We confess him as Lord, and bow to him joyfully. The gospel is good news-the good news of what God has done in Jesus Christ. One day he will make all things new. The good news culminates in a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness, where neither sin nor any of its effects can survive, and where we enjoy the presence of God forever. And we announce this good news to people everywhere, entreating them with the words, “Be reconciled to God!” by repenting of sin, asking God for His mercy, and trusting Jesus Christ.

[@user-ee9vf5nx4u]

An example of universal justice is the conscience of right and wrong. Otherwuse the law is written in our heart. We are designed in the image of God.

[@saintmalaclypse3217]

@@user-ee9vf5nx4u That's not an example, that's an assertion. If you claim there is universal justice, you can't "prove" it by just restating that there is universal justice. Give me one thing, anything, that is universally just. Or unjust, I'll take either example. Let's say a man SA'ed a bunch of children, then ended them, then hid the bodies and was never caught. But, in his golden years, he repented for what he had done, found Jesus and accepted him into his heart with full faith and love. Then he died. And went to Heaven. Where does universal justice address the crimes he committed?

[@user-ee9vf5nx4u]

@@saintmalaclypse3217 The universal example is depravity itself and the origin of depravity; therefore, we all stand guilty by nature (universal) and by deeds. The fall of man and the bloodline of man has passed down through the generations. So your question is: What gives justice to fallen man? Universal acceptance of righteousness, which is not religion but God's position. Your example: If this man had been caught under the law of God, he would have been stoned, and probably his remains would have burned without the camp. The tribe of Benjamin failed to give up these same types of offenders, and it started a war within the tribes. 1) There should be justice according to God (punishment). 2) Repentance is not an excuse to get out of the punishment. 3) A transgression according to the Law of God. Please look up Leviticus 17:11 and atonement by faith requires a payment. The wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23. The universal acceptance is Jesus as a Lamb received as a gift through grace and mercy. This is universal because: John 1:1, 1:14. God requires it to be accepted for payment, and the blood is the full price of the payment. Romans 3:25. Otherwise, Jesus has universally paid for the sins of man for justification. People confuse justification with righteous judgment. A crime still has the earthly consequences of punishment. The Holy Mother Church suggests purgatory, but that is blasphemous and unscriptural. It's clearly only the blood of Jesus. The answer is that God will not judge sin if it is washed away in salvation. If he is truly saved: The heart of the converted believer will want to restore the damage.

[@JewTubeSux]

The word "universe" translates to "one word" or "the word."

[@marksnow7569]

No, it translates to "one turning thing" (as in the old belief that everything revolved around the Earth). A verse is a passage of writing which keeps turning back to the left margin before it has reached the right margin.

[@richardgregory3684]

It doesn't.

[@frankbarber8019]

Uni- meaning "singular" verse- "spoken sentence" universe- single spoken sentence...."Let their be light" the word itself is a sermon...lol

[@mirandahotspring4019]

Wrong! Universe is late Middle English: from Old French univers or Latin universum, neuter of universus ‘combined into one, whole’, from uni- ‘one’ + versus ‘turned’ (past participle of vertere )

[@marksnow7569]

@@frankbarber8019 Where did you get that from?

[@gheiberg59]

In my mid-to-late teens, I spent a lot of time studying particle physics and the mathematics associated with theoretical physics... these meditations played a significant role in my conversion to Christianity.

[@BarryBirther]

Did 1 + 1 always = 2 BEFORE anyone ever thought of it?

[@PInk77W1]

In a few days we are having a Total Eclipse here in TX USA To me as incredible as a total eclipse is The fact that man knows when they are coming is even more impressive.

[@1stdebunker]

I live in PA. We have a full total eclipse in a few days. Only for 3 minutes, but the sun will entirely disappear behind the moon and shadow. From the Greek. Ekleipein. Failing to appear. The Sun will fail to appear In the Book of Matthew, this is the same language used to describe the darkness that covers the land after the death of Christ

[@PInk77W1]

@@1stdebunker nice

[@jhpfdijtuiweruot]

Eclipse prediction makes perfect sense when you work out and realise we don’t live on a spinning globe

[@PInk77W1]

@@jhpfdijtuiweruot How so

[@manamanathegreat4986]

Claiming math is evidence of god is no different than claiming (insert anything) is evidence of god. It's literally the laziest argument there is.

[@undercoveragent9889]

About 10% of Westerners believe the earth to be flat. They get to vote, too. Are we surprised that we are still sacrificing children to Moloch?

[@francis5518]

IMO, the harmony of nature is the perfect example of what divinity means (not necessarily the Abrahamic "God").

[@manamanathegreat4986]

@@francis5518 many people conflate god and nature. If you can just as easily call it nature, then there's no need for the extra baggage and nonsense that comes with god claims.

[@francis5518]

@@manamanathegreat4986 I agree with giving importance to clarity in our use of language, so in turn I agree with trying to keep concepts separate, avoiding being "flimsy ". ...The problem I see is, on one hand the idea of God is too ambiguous, so associating anything to it has an unpredictable effect on the reader/listener, since they probably will use their own definition of God. On the other hand, the idea of Nature is usually very mechanistic, or materialistic, so people would tend to, by default, exclude any overall unity of purpose or intelligence from it... So, I believe that the annoyance with people mixing Nature and God comes from the need to find a word that has elements of both, without using "Nature" and "God". In conclusion, your legitimate annoyance comes from witnessing an impression in the use of language (in my opinion), but I forgive this inaccuracy because we are talking about ideas beyond the limitations of everyday language (or my lexicon is just as limited as the speakers' is). What words could we use to unify the world as it is, with its majestic harmony, adding intelligence to it? I would be ok with "Nature", but others might not presuppose the intelligent aspect of it. "Brahman"?

[@davegaskell7680]

@@francis5518 But there is no need to come up with a word that covers both nature and God because there is only evidence for nature. I agree that many people use the word "god" differently but any specific named god has a generally accepted definition of description.

[@cordbauer9038]

So we have just enough consciousness to be able to conceive some of these existing theorems. Does that mean the same "theism" that gave us consciousness, has prevented the required amount to see the full picture?

[@rtistic_Cosmic_translat3r]

5:13 I feel Ur words(my spirit in you( translation) words are keys❤❤❤ love faith joy

[@mr_siuuu7404]

God is giving evidences and people still deny…

[@richardjackson6307]

There is so much physical evidence that nobody ever talks about, it's aggravating.

[@GodSoLoved.Yeshua]

@richardjackson6307 You are physical evidence....

[@GodSoLoved.Yeshua]

Humans discovered the laws of nature, we didn't create them.

[@mirandahotspring4019]

Really? What "evidence"?

[@GodSoLoved.Yeshua]

@mirandahotspring4019 In the video.. humans didn't create the laws of nature. We study them.

[@savedin98]

...i would love to have this translated. Great video thank you.

[@SpacePonder]

8:57 what Shermer said here is actually really something to consider. Personally, I wrote a paper on this very topic, which is called the Somethingness Principle, which ponders that nothingness may be impossible. "We're just going to hit an epistemological wall where we just can't know like what was there before the big bang. What was there before time began? Hawking's analogies: what's north of the North Pole? How does something come from nothing? Well, what do you mean by nothing? Not only just no matter, space, time, energy, but no logic, no ideas, no Gods, nothing, no eternity. Yeah, nothing. Nothing. I mean, you wouldn't even have no thing. I mean, the word itself "no thing" implies there's the thing that doesn't exist. True nothing wouldn't even be that. You know, there's no eternity because there's no time. At some point, I don't even know what I'm talking about."

[@Neosci]

You’re just coming to terms with how much we really don’t know anything

[@SpacePonder]

@@Neosci It's not really what it's about. It's more so that the concept of nothingness is incomprehensible, rather than the lack of knowledge. The paragraph above was directly quoted from the video. But if I answer your question. I would say no. I do know that we, in the grand scheme of things, do not know anything. This is why I like to ponder, a continuous learning journey. 😊

[@AveragePicker]

@@SpacePonder "... the concept of nothingness is incomprehensible" Not really....think back and remember what it was like 20 years before you were born. That's nothing.

[@donthesitatebegin9283]

@@AveragePicker No, it isn't. What you describe is the idea of nothing, not the Thing-in-itself.

[@aaronharlow2137]

@@SpacePonder If you believe that nothingness is impossible, then you would have to claim that the cosmos has no beginning, having never been created or had a starting point, which is not consistent with science. And if nothingness IS possible, then consider the scientific likelihood or possbility of an object, let's say, a box, can randomly appear out of nowhere. Literally nowhere. Not created by any particles, just pops into existence like a magic trick, no source, no mind behind it.. If you think that's impossible, why would you believe the whole Universe can do that? If an eternal Universe is inconsistent with science, and something coming from nothing is impossible, then you got four walls surrounding you. There's no other option. There had to be a Creator.

[@TheTruthKiwi]

How the frig does anyone know what pre-exists the universe? Short answer: they don't.

[@rl7012]

We know it has to be something outside time and space. We know it had to have information. We know it had to be immaterial. Atheists know nothing.

[@Theo_Skeptomai]

@@rl7012"Atheists know nothing." Are you certain you want to assert that?

[@therick363]

⁠@@rl7012sigh. No you believe that but it’s not a fact. _atheists know nothing_ This shows you lack the integrity to speak about things.

[@TheTruthKiwi]

@themeaningoflife6861 Sorry snowflake, didn't realise "frig" was vulgar speech. 😂😂😂 Also, out of the over 8 billion people on this planet and the millions that have gone before NOT ONE PERSON knows exactly what existed or occured prior to the Big Bang or the Planck Epoch to be more specific. If anyone claims they do know then they are deluded or are being dishonest, probably both. In saying that, the universe and life most LIKEY originated naturally and wasn't poofed into existence by some omnipotent magical entity from another dimension. We exist in a natural universe, not a magical one.

[@Andre-ah]

@themeaningoflife6861it’s a good question. You’re being sarcastic right? It’s illogical to apply the meaning of your comment.

[@kjvnews8326]

04:15 - So take the basic laws of nature... YES, let's take them. All of the constants of nature such as the speed of light, force of gravity, strong and weak nuclear forces, etc. must be exactly as they are. Tweaking any of one of them just a little bit and our universe would not and could NEVER exist. One of the greatest proofs for our Creator is the EXTREME fine-tuning of our Universe. Most people have absolutely no idea how extremely fine-tuned and what a miracle our universe, galaxy, solar system & planet must be for life, and especially for advanced life, to exist anywhere in the universe. In order for life to exist anywhere requires the right type of galaxy cluster, the right type of galaxy (spiral, and only 5% of all galaxies are spiral). The star must also be in the right location in the spiral galaxy. The majority of stars are located either in the central bulge and could NEVER have a planet with life due to the supermassive black hole in the central bulge, other black holes & supernovae that are constantly spewing out deadly radiation. It is the same problem with the spiral arms. There is too much deadly radiation. But our own star, the sun, is located between the spiral arms; however, even this must be extremely fine-tuned. Almost all of the stars located between these arms travel at different speeds and eventually, they all wind up in the deadly spiral arms. But our sun is located at what is known as the corotation distance and it rotates at the same speed as the galaxy itself. So our sun constantly remains between these spiral arms. The planet’s star itself must also be the right size, contain the right mass, contain the right metallicity, and it must even be the right color in order for photosynthesis to occur on the planet. The star's planet (earth) must be the right distance from the star and it must remain there in a circular or near circular orbit. If the earth were just 2% closer or farther away from the sun, life on the planet could not exist. The planet must also have the right rotation rate of 24 hours.. If it were any less, our planet would constantly have hundred mile an hour winds like Jupiter. Any more, it would get much too hot during the day, then much too cold at night. The planet must also have the right gravity or we'd either be glued to the earth from the planets mass, or we’d be hopping around the planet like the astronauts did when trying to walk on the moon. It also requires the right number of moons (one), that is the right size and in the right location and distance to keep our planet from tumbling, and keep the poles where they are. It is also needed for our oceans tides which are also important for planetary life. The History channel had a one hour program that showed just how important the moon alone is for life on earth. We also need the other huge planets like Jupiter & Saturn with their huge mass all located in the right location in our solar system. These planets constantly protect the earth from asteroids, comets and meteors. During our own lifetime we witnessed the Shoemaker-Levy comet impact that smashed into Jupiter. If it had hit the earth instead, that would have been the end of all life on our planet. Even the moon helps to protect us to some degree and we can see all of the moon craters & the hits that it took for us in the past. The earth's escape velocity must also be fine-tuned so that deadly gasses such as methane & ammonia (16, 17) dissipate from the atmosphere, while oxygen (18), which we need to breathe, doesn’t. Moreover, we need the right amount of oxygen at 20%. If this level was greater, our planet would become much too combustible & forest fires would rage out of control destroying life on the planet. But if the oxygen level was any less, advanced life could never exist. We also need the right amount of carbon. All life is carbon based, but too much, and it would combine with our oxygen forming carbon dioxide. There goes the oxygen we need to breathe. Our bodies also require dozens of other elements and minerals that are all readily available in just the right quantities. These include sodium, potassium, calcium that are needed in large amounts. Others, such as copper, fluoride, zinc, iron, selenium, iodine, etc. that we also need are all readily available in smaller amounts. We need the right quantity of water in our oceans for life to exist & even the salt content in the oceans has to be fine tuned to permit life. Our planet needs the right quantities & types of uranium and thorium, all in the right locations under the surface of the earth in order for plate tectonics to occur. Without plate tectonics continually pushing up our continents, gravity, rain & wind erosion over millions of years would result in our entire planet covered with one mile of ocean. We need the earth's iron core creating the magnetic field that protects life on earth from the sun’s radiation, and we also need the ozone layer to protect us from the UV radiation coming from the sun. Of ALL of the fine-tuning characteristics mentioned however, the greatest of all is the expansion of the Universe. If this expansion was just a tiny bit slower the universe would have collapsed in on itself. But if the expansion had just been a little bit faster, our galaxies could never have formed to begin with. For almost a century now, scientists have been stating that our universe is “expanding”. At least a dozen times in the bible God confirms this when he said that He: “stretched out the heavens”. Recently, they’ve even been using the same word and stating that space has a self-STRETCHING property. Moreover, all of the constants of nature such as the speed of light, force of gravity, strong and weak nuclear forces, etc. must be exactly as they are. Tweaking any of one of them just a little bit and our universe would not and could NEVER exist. Now these are just a few of the HUNDREDS of extreme fine-tuning characteristics that scientists have recently discovered and that are ALL required for life to occur anywhere in the universe. Each year the scientists are discovering more and more of this extreme fine-tuning. I’ve listed just a few of them. These astrophysicists & scientists have estimated that the odds of just one planet in our entire universe having ALL of the required characteristics for advanced life are more than the estimated number of electrons in our universe. For more information on this subject Google: Reasons to Believe [in a Creator] by Hugh Ross. Ross is an astronomer, scientist and former atheist. His book Reasons to Believe lists many more of these fine-tuning requirements & his work is also available on KZbin. Also, research the Anthropic Principle for more information on the miracle of God’s creation - our Universe.

[@MarkH-cu9zi]

_"One of the greatest proofs for our Creator is the EXTREME fine-tuning of our Universe."_ Most of the universe kills us instantly. Is your creator evil? We could imagine a more fine tuned universe. ... so are we nicer or smarter than your god?

[@drillyourarguments]

@markh Humans rebelled against God. they couldve eaten from so so many trees and plants but instead they chose sin, which lead to death and moral bad and natural bad. dont stick blame on God, accept that humans are to blame. read his full post and read Genesis 1 to 12.

[@MarkH-cu9zi]

@@drillyourarguments _"Humans rebelled against God. "_ What does that have to do with the claims of a fine tuned universe? _"dont stick blame on God,"_ God set it all up. Either he wanted it to happen or he didn't know if would happen.

[@bobwilkinson2008]

Fined tuned? LOL. How does "I can see something" get to "therefore god did it"?

[@TheHeggert]

Thank you for taking the time to write that all out. I knew most of those, but just beautiful to read them all together! Praise God!

[@SaveTheTrees333]

Great summary. And the reality in which we exist is constantly increasing in complexity the more scientists discover!

[@donn07]

AMEN, thank YOU LORD JESUS CHRIST ❤🙏

[@dmanson4649]

Answering the question “Where did maths come from”, with “God created it”, just answers a complicated question with an infinitely more complex one.

[@Jair2435]

I love this channel

[@jimf937]

Dude, same here. My first time here and joining now.

[@noybiznatch]

Read and watch everything you can on Stephen Meyer... he is a true genius, and humble to boot.

[@kos-mos1127]

When is Brandon moving to that God tv channel?

[@Bloodhound_Dogg]

The fact we have to even all this question If math is invented or discovered is ludicrous

[@Disciple793]

How wonderful would it be to meet God face to face one day and say, "Lord I am so honored to have discovered this mathematical theory as the result of the rational mind you created." (Psalm 139:13-14)

[@user-ix7bp1lc3t]

Reminds me of the song 🎵”nothin from nothin leaves nothin”🎶 which is impossible without God😊

[@saintmalaclypse3217]

Without god, it's impossible to get nothing from nothing? So...if I take NO water from a well, I will GET water unless god intervenes? I think you have no idea what you typed.

[@justin10292000]

​@@saintmalaclypse3217"god"? Category Error Fallacy. God is not "god," "a god," or "one of many gods."

[@saintmalaclypse3217]

@@justin10292000 "God" was never His name. That's an editorial invention after the fact. It'd be like if someone wrote a biography about you, then someone else came along and edited it to replace your name with the word "person", then all of your friends and loved ones started getting butthurt if I didn't call you "Person" instead of "person", but none of them seemed to care that neither of those words was your name. 🙄🙄

[@andres.e.]

Shermer has no arguments, only the famous Dillahunty dodge: "I'm not convinced".

[@T_J_]

I have fascistic, rainbow coloured, chess-playing mice under my bed. Are you convinced that's true?

[@dubemmba9602]

​@@T_J_if you say you have that under your bed, good for you.

[@T_J_]

@@dubemmba9602 Glad to see that you didn't totally misunderstand my point. Good for you.

[@laurent9752]

he has no arguments to what?

[@ronmullick253]

This whole thing is like an intruder getting you to open the door a tiny bit.And then a barrage of complete and utter silliness follows.A being that creates woman from a man's rib.Dies on a cross in ancient middle East to redeem human prehistoric sin.A sin that makes no sense to begin with....

[@PInk77W1]

“But you have arranged all things by measure number and weight” Wis. 11:20

[@makermarx8862]

09:23 Stephen's face while looking at Michael waffle is hilarious.

[@SpacePonder]

The mathematical jargon is invented but the pure math is discovered.

[@robertrogers-nm8wf]

Nice video as always. Ya know, you’re one of the best defenders of truth out there man. 👍

[@Majorpain12345]

Again, my same criticism of this channel. Showing a short clip of a 90 minute interview that I have watched before and ignoring any counter points from Michael shermer. Biased channels will be biased I suppose. What can you do….

[@AANasseh]

Greta conversation. The question of whether Mathematics is discovered or invented has been on my mind for many many years. My conclusion is like language, math is another symbolic way we understand the physical universe. Patterns and relationships have always existed among particles, matter, and energy; and math is how we make sense of it. So, if language was invented or discovered, so was math. The fact that the neural networks in our brain can process both is essentially complexity theory in action where the brain became complex enough to tap into the universe at the understanding level, rather than observational level. So, it’s not a Devine manifestation; but we are models of the universe and in someway, we evolved into the universe so that the universe can understand itself! All the answers to the posed questions are in philosophy of the mind, complexity theory, computation theory, neural networks, and the work of Patricia Churchland.

[@youngsumac2363]

I was waiting for Callen to show them his Fields metal after he mentioned the Pythagorean theorem