Athens, Jerusalem, and Silicon Valley

[@kevinmurray8302]

Thank you for your answer Bishop Barron! You have influenced me a lot over the last few years and have showed me, among other things, the unsurpassable beauty of the Faith. So much so that I joined the RCIA program at my local parish (St. Patrick's Basilica Montreal) and was baptized this Easter. Thank you for all of your amazing work

[@anneturner2759]

I go to St. Patrick’s too… Mnsg . Coyle lol , wonderful ,and Fr. Robert Pierre Louis . Peace and light. Bishop Barron has landed in my at the perfect time. I love him .

[@marypinakat8594]

Thanks for the excellent Question Kevin. I'm sure many will be helped by the answer.

[@anneturner2759]

@@marypinakat8594 agree Mary .

[@BishopBarron]

Wonderful!

[@marypinakat8594]

@@anneturner2759 God bless you Anne☆ Stay blessed as always☆

[@piva1358]

I ❤❤❤❤❤ Bishop Baron. He is so calm and knowledgeable! God has blessed him with a gift for words and he blesses us in turn !

[@paullackman5315]

Thank You Bishop Barron and Mr. Vogt. These are edifying, sophisticated conversations about reason, faith and technology.

[@208MediaVideo]

Bishop Barron's explanation of utility in this video is articulated in a way that is extraordinary.

[@margaretrobertson967]

God Bless you Bishop Barren

[@Meraikie]

Thank you, thank you... I enjoyed listening to this talk! God bless the incredible knowledge and wisdom of Bishop Barron. Thank you for making this possible. God bless you both. 👐👐👐🕯🕯🕯🔔🔔

[@brunocrescia2689]

Thank you bishop Barron and Brandon for always putting our christianity in a modern light.

[@marypinakat8594]

This Session is priceless! Huge Thanks Bishop Barron and Brandon☆

[@sandradigras1396]

Bishop you have very effectively blended the 3 cities in relation to Word on Fire ministry. As a on line viewer I am introduced to your Catholic perspective and arguments by social media. It is then up to your viewers to inhabit the 3 cities. Blessings

[@aussiechiro3126]

What a blessing our shepherd Bishop Barron is, to have the depth of understanding and ability to reflect and glean wisdom to us, his sheep, in such a manner and way that even the most casual thinker can grasp.

[@aikMegatrone]

A friendly hello from the cold Sweden! Thank you for your wisdom. You are werry much the gandalf of theology for me if that makes sense. Stay safe bishop, and again, thank you

[@marypinakat8594]

Stay blessed Jesper. Hope to see your Comments more often. Big God Bless☆

[@marypinakat8594]

Beware of the FAKE Bishop out here

[@ChasingHopeVlog]

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and I find this very interesting.

[@Electric_]

I think the Netflix sci-fi series Black Mirror is overall a great example of what can happen when Silicon Valley becomes totally unmoored from reason and morality (Athens and Jerusalem).

[@loveandmercy9664]

That's a good one.

[@OrionOodama]

Thanks for the suggestion. Will put that on the already-loaded bucket list.

[@outofoblivionproductions4015]

Spot on.

[@aldente131]

I liked the last argument Bishop Barron made about the mind. But, more than the airtight argument, what really lits the fire is the loving heart he puts into his effort to help us to understand.

[@marypinakat8594]

Same here. Thank you for commenting.

[@marypinakat8594]

@aaa bbb Thank you. Sincere prayers. God bless you☆

[@annette4660]

Brilliant. I wish it were an hour long, at least. I'll just have to listen multiple times.

[@ruthfletcher7383]

Xx❤

[@rossythasesa5900]

Amen 🙏❤️ Thank you Bishop Barron. God bless you 🕊️🙏✝️

[@jeremyj427]

I was born baptist and have been pulled in this direction for years. I never knew why. Now, I think it’s because we don’t have any conversations like this in our spaces. Lack of intellectual tradition is a part of it - I always thought it was the only part of it. Now, I can see it’s just a symptom of the larger problem of being the rebellious kid that left mom and dad. (Rome and Byzantium). The church will have to fall back in on itself at some point.

[@PatrickSteil]

After 20 years in the Methodist Church and returning back to Catholicism I see that the intellectual and philosophical and scientific tradition of The Church shows how serious it has always been about getting to God’s Truth. No where else have I found such great opportunities for plumbing the depths of God’s Truth as in Catholic Christianity. I have often thought of it as “advanced Christianity”. lol What you pointed out about the lack of intellectual tradition I believe may be another inadvertent and negative side effect to “sola scripture”.

[@jeremyj427]

@@PatrickSteil I think I may have said something similar about being “advanced” last week lol, or that it’s part of a staircase we are all on ….

[@leninjohnson1213]

Thank you Bp Barron for this interesting and informative talk!

[@luciafernandez1360]

God Bless!

[@timvermeulen639]

Absolutely amazing talk. Thank you 🙏

[@TecOneself]

I can't wait father, thank you. Amen

[@ccreasman]

I think that most in Silicon Valley do not see themselves as ignoring the two other cities, as if to dismiss faith or reason. Instead, they see themselves as replacing the other two. That in their technological advances they have created a new reason and a new faith, and to some degree that a new type of humanity, of a “common good” has been defined and realized.

[@elizabethmontemayor-aparat4889]

GOD favor all your endeavors. I have learned so much about the Catholic faith. Now I try my best to know more about our faith…….so I may love more and serve more. Thank you so much.

[@niallhogan1565]

This is a very interesting subject which commands serious contemplation as it effects us in every part of our lives and how we live.

[@mathieulachance3120]

It starts in 2012 while I was reading "the unarmed law, legitimacy and legality". I have so much emphasied on the essential formal structure...

[@OrigenisAdamantios]

Wonderful!! 🎉 "Hence, adhering to reason does not suggest 'recollection, far less subjection to any assumed part of the soul but obeying to and being guided by something external (namely, the Reason / Logos), which grants humans their nous or pnevma as part of their constitution." --Tzamalikos (Guilty of Genius)

[@JenniferAnnMcCaffrey]

Thank you to all involved in bringing these wonderful insights to us! I always learn so much ❤

[@markoconnor7699]

"Not only lost their way, but lost their address" Well said. Recent surveys revealed that most Americans above 35 believe that morality doesn't change over time, while most Americans under 35 believe morality changes over time.

[@breatheeasily4013]

I am young and I know morality doesn't change.

[@amschelmayer.7092]

Wisdom or maturity of thought is not achieved before one reaches his late thirties or early forties.

[@outofoblivionproductions4015]

They said I think it was G.k.Chesterton's quote- who was hilarious and lost in thought, he was known to have rung up his wife asking, "Where am I going?" So G.K. understood the importance of an address or phone number.

[@petitemaam]

Hi Bishop. I hope you receive this question. You are a great teacher, I wonder how you answer questions that come from 3 and 4 year olds. They're so simple, but so profound, even adults struggle to answer, or we just don't have it, and that's frustrating to a child that normally has a tangible answer. How do you answer to a toddler the age old question, who is God? And how would you answer the natural questions that tend to follow, the what, where, when, and how?

[@amschelmayer.7092]

And He wants us not merely to be happy, but to live forever.

[@tomgreene1843]

Very important topic today for modern dialogue....only the physical world gives an adequate basis for genuine truth. Mary Midgley has some good writings in this area. Speaking of Newman UCD almost forgot to attend his canonization.

[@wissenschaftkraft5075]

Bishop Barron is truly humble man!

[@logicaredux5205]

The quote from Luther that “Reason is the Devil’s whore” is often used outside it’s context. He wasn’t demonizing reason per se. He was saying that it becomes the “Devil’s whore” when human reason is used to sit in judgement over Divine Revelation.

[@imnotanalien7839]

This was a wonderful discussion and I love 30 minutes at a time. There was one question that seems pertinent to this discussion that I would have loved to ask Bishop Barron. Would technology (Silicon Valley)or Athens (science) be here today without Jerusalem. Without sustained Christianity would there be more than rudimentary technology. It seems that until ALL individuals are untethered from slavery and have freedom to act and think uniquely…. that the other two cities are plow horses on a racetrack with thoroughbreds. PS. And Bishop Barron mentioned there will always be unexpected side effects to technology….some really bad. Medicine has led to 7B people on the planet ….which has led to massive pollution and dwindling resources. That’s another reason why Jerusalem would seem to be the most relevant, to me, of the three cities. Thank you for sharing such an interesting topic.

[@nathanngumi8467]

Very interesting!

[@R.C.425]

Thank you

[@jessisanturo501]

This highly sophisticated argument, seems to offer an intriguing hypothesis at the highest level of our human intellectual and understanding. That in order for humanity to construct, a Perfect Utopia man have always desired and fought for all through history, it must contain, maintain and perfectly integrate the most useful elements of this three cities combine, as the main superb ingredients for a Rich, Brilliant and Religious Utopia World Wide. I think we now can say... Eureka. I personally would put on the Utopia perfect Cake, Jesus on top but that's just me

[@EVSmith-by9no]

I would argue that humanity in its fallenness cannot and should not attempt to construct a perfect utopia on Earth. Only God is perfect and only He could ever be perfect. No thing or creature could ever attain perfection not even in the eternity to come. Let’s leave well alone.

[@tomjohnson6343]

I recommend Dynamics of World History a collection of essays by Christopher Dawson. Although he wrote nearly a century ago, I think that the internet & social media have only made a small change to his worldview. Primarily by empowering people of lesser resources to get their thoughts widely known.

[@Custodes21]

Christopher Dawson is good reading.

[@eleanorbertuch135]

Great conversation

[@Barbaramamato]

Much appreciated

[@Davidjune1970]

Absolutely the use of KZbin, podcasts on the bible and digital streaming of mass for people who are not able to make it physically to church are reaching millions of people that otherwise would have been alone or not understood the Catholic Church.

[@pweinbrenner]

Does anyone compare Silicon Valley to Babylon or Egypt? Nothing new. Good discussion to revisit the three cities.

[@humbledaughter2219]

Respectfully, How can one move on with their life and faith after such an incident as the 2 dogs in Tenessee that mauled 2 children to death and other similar instances where mothers helplessly watched their baby/toddlers die in such a manner? How can a mother live their life with joyful trust in God with that in their memory? Another account was a 4 year old mauled by a neighbors dog and died in the same gruesome manner, a baby, again the mother tried in vain to save him and will always replay that trauma in her mind. No more sweet little arms or kisses. That is too much for this mothers heart because my child is the same age and my own faith even as a bystander, is affected. Words or thoughts I can replay in my head when the enemy reminds me of this is appreciated. Thank you

[@bensolo7000]

Its so difficult to express briefly consoling words to alleviate the pain and sorrow a parent would feel after a tragic event such as one you describe. Or the questions that naturally arise about God's goodness and joy to be found in the world. I think the aswer to your question of how to move on is: delicately, slowly, patiently, and purposefully. A person should seek prayer and spiritual direction, mass attendance, and maybe a support group for trauma or child loss. Perhaps read books on the topic. Seek out the love and support of family, friends, and community. I know your question was mainly an existential one. But trauma is both a spiritual and physical reality. It will take a person years to heal fully as the body, mind, and soul must heal. So there is a physical element to trauma as well. It affects our thinking, breathing, heart rate, hormones, and even our DNA. I recommend people look into treatments like EMDR or Brainspotting, Neuro or Bio feedback, tapping, meditation, writing, and movement therapies like: Somatic Work, Feldenkrais, Pilates, dance, martial arts, or massage. What you describe for yourself is known as secondary trauma. Its when we experience trauma through the experience of another. Secondary trauma can be healed in the same ways as primary trauma. Let us pray for the healing of the suffering and anguished. God bless.

[@humbledaughter2219]

@@bensolo7000 Thank you. I can’t help but feel anger at these huge dogs near my home that are alive and well while 2 children were eaten by dogs just like them. Every time I feel a moment of joy or peace I remember this incident and spiritually crash.

[@breatheeasily4013]

The Christian life doesn't promisse lack of suffering but it promisses it! But it also promisses eternal life If we stay faithful until the end.

[@dokidokibibleclub]

Hi @Bishop Robert Barron, Robert Sungenis can't make a Marian debate coming up @ Standing For Truth. Do you want the debate seat?

[@christinanickerson7664]

This was truly a good talk that made me think and look at things going on around me in a new light, 🕯💡The AI world can be scary if we let it, or we can use it to advance the good in God's world🌍🌎🌏❣😃✌👣

[@MartinLopez-mo7tm]

I like the metaphor of the three cities but, even being a scientist, I don't fully grasp the reach of Silicon Valley yet. I also liked the references to Kant, i.e., circle and 7. I wish Bishop Barron would share his thoughts on Kant's Critique of Pure Reason someday.

[@spiritualpolitics8205]

I like this guy. (He's far more congenial than the modern Catholic exegete they mention near the end.) He's so congenial, he could almost talk me back into Catholicism... There is a broad commonsense to his taxonomies. Which is not to say that careful humanist introspection about final things, epistemic ends, etc., yields the Catholic metaphysical edifice. But I'll grant that's far saner than the identitarian creed lying around in plain sight.

[@opencarrydrift6308]

Jerusalem, Athens, Silicon Valley. Energy, Matter, Information.

[@steveburks45]

Neuroscience doesn’t know what consciousness is yet, even though it is studied

[@cameronturner3108]

Is there a hierarchy among the three cities? If so what would the hierarchy be?

[@joolz5747]

Hey…get Jordan Peterson into this! 👍

[@pepinperalta]

Jesus revealed the true original anthropology, and John and Paul deeply explained it

[@pepinperalta]

Dear Bishop Baron Shalom! I am in Venezuela and can only text you through Skipe or meet on Zoom. Do you have Skipe? I texted you there but I don't think it got to you. Peace be with you.

[@marypinakat8594]

*Bishop Barron:* You can't talk about a Robot or a pure AI invention being capable of self-conscious and reflective cognitive perception of invisiblities and that's why you need to talk about the immateriality of the Soul. 27: 16-36

[@margaretrobertson967]

Bishop what about the vibrations coming from the earth?

[@michellehill718]

Indeed! And, an absolutely desperate need for a proper anthropology!

[@rail_bender5205]

Hmm. A very Catholic discussion. Silicon valley is by and large atheistic. Today Athens is Greek (Eastern) Orthodox. A very complex set of realities. Nice discussion though. Thank you both.

[@dawnlapka3782]

I think online church services and Mass or Mass by television actually is a good thing. But Mass in person is better. If online or technical prayer works best to help you in daily life but then makes it better when you are able to get there in person, technology can't be that bad. Neuropsychiatry utilizes empirical reasoning and basic theory to help people recover from TBI. (Traumatic Brain Injury) without certain amounts of data and research from previous injuries from other patients, new patients can't get better. The person that asked the question at the end jarred my thoughts about this question: without all the technology that goes into healing such complex and complicated illnesses, where does Faith fit into the equation and how can we explain things like the experience of NDE ( near death experience) does it even matter? St. Paul says to let God be God.

[@Barbaramamato]

What are some of the possibilities in response to Google using the Pro-Choice footnotes on Pro-Life KZbin Videos?

[@petergreen8477]

I’m not a Marxist, but I suspect that Karl Marx had a point when he said that the inventions that humans come up with tend to be much more revolutionary than the people who invent them. In other words, we take a very long time to catch up with our inventions. I’m not entirely sure that we’ve caught up with the internal combustion engine, for example - gridlock, smog, deaths on the road, etc. I’m also of the opinion that we still don’t really know what we’re doing with mass electronic communication.

[@michaelbergfeld8751]

Sickilon Belly, (P)Athe(r)ns and Jesusalem

[@s.r.darstein3326]

There is one fundamental difference between "Silicone Valley" and Jerusalem-Athens. The latter two deal with basic truths of being human across all generations and places. "Silicone Valley" is a place of mediated truth, -mediated by machines of this generation, people and place. In former times, New York was similar as a radio center, Hollywood with film and television, and various places in Europe as centers of printing. Are all these "places" not just reflectors of truth, rather than sources? Are they not equally useful for enemies of truth? Even "Athens" is good only as a servant of "Jerusalem".

[@andypresby6537]

I think it might be said that Athens isolated and alone stops reading the Book of the Word. Jerusalem on her own stops reading the Book of the World. Silicon Valley is just what happens when you allow the above unholy disunion to persist at scale for hundreds of years…

[@jamjayne12]

What will happen when the grid goes down??

[@jamjayne12]

I don't go there thanks

[@renaud_gagne]

I think Bishop Barron in his comment about technology is naive about how we have no control over what it does to us. The car was seen as a tool to go from A to B...little did we know it would redesign urban planning and destroy communities.

[@anneturner2759]

SIGH…. ❤

[@camielvandergraaf2381]

Bishop Barron often uses the term "bracket", "bracketed". I do not completely understand what he means by this (I am not an English native speaker). Can maybe a native speaker explain to me what exactly is meant by this?

[@lcf9234]

It means to "set aside" , "ignore".

[@elperinasoswa6772]

I thought it means to group together. Things that share some similarites should be grouped or bracketed together. It is a categorization of things that fall together within a specified limit.

[@camielvandergraaf2381]

@@elperinasoswa6772 That’s what I thought too. But that explanation did not make sense to me in the context of Bishop Barron’s remarks. So I am still a bit confused…

[@nikolabolsec6707]

The solution to the Pinker-Trappist mon-Elon Musk problem is quit easy. The Trappist monk can offer them a trappist beer and trappist cheese as a performative and in the same time show them (as G.K. Chesterton puts it in his St. Thomas Aquinas) that his theory is perfectly practical. Who has ears (or good taste)... Cheers!

[@victcol7]

nothing much has changed , we are still mortal and we die. The Glitter of technology in this information age cannot obscure our mortality, what happens next, is the eternal question?

[@raykochanski7885]

Nice discussion, yer the role of the prime mover, the Lord of history, the Divine Providence, the One who chooses us and covenants Himself with us .. was not addressed. There is a fourth city, a heavenly city and its LORD and shepherd. That city is at hand Christ told us.

[@brendanwicke1891]

That's Jerusalem, one of the three cities...

[@amschelmayer.7092]

If thoughts are nothing more than the result of random chemical activity in the brain then there is no reason to believe we have a grasp of the truth, and, consequently, no reason to believe that thoughts are nothing more than the result of random chemical activity in the brain.

[@Bazerkly]

Silly Con Valley has better food ! 🤔

[@taehyunjeoung1334]

Pants for pants. Deeply. Strip. Dress. Keep them not frozen. No doubt. Go and love.

[@taehyunjeoung1334]

Jesus female? No jesus male. God, for ever and ever.

[@maciejpieczula631]

I don't understand. If today's Athens would represent scientific reason than wouldn't that mean that Silicone Valley is the new Athens?

[@glendisshiko8182]

Personally i would prefer to consider Silicon Valley the city of merchants. Either that or Athens is the city of Social Sciences/ Philosophy, while Silicon Valley is the city of Physical Sciences/ Engineers

[@taehyunjeoung1334]

Jesus, male no female. Father male. Mother female. No drag gueen. Women beautiful. Man strong. Women loving mother.

[@yourfriendlyneighborhoodin1559]

All doctrine unique to the Catholic church is unnecessary if Christ's sacrifice is complete. If Christ's sacrifice was perfect and he took away all sin past, present, and future than... Penance has no purpose. Purgatory has no point. Absolution is unnecessary. Need I go on? Yes, Christ's sacrifice on the cross is complete and Final. The Bible confirms this repeatedly. Flee this Anti-church. Trust In Christ Alone. Trust in him alone like you would trust a parachute. You can add nothing to a parachute by flapping your arms. Just as you can add nothing to the perfect and finished sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross for all of your sins. Do not cheapen the saviors work by adding mans tradition on to it. Find a church that does not withhold the drinking of the wine from its lowly non-priest membership.

[@taehyunjeoung1334]

@@yourfriendlyneighborhoodin1559 "Eternal Father, I offer you the body and blood soul and the divinity of your dearly beloved son our Lord Jesus Christ in atonement for our sins and those of whole world. For the sake of His sorrowful passion. Have mercy on us and on the whole world."

[@taehyunjeoung1334]

@@yourfriendlyneighborhoodin1559 I love Divine Mercy Sunday! It's beautiful. I like to remember to give thanks to God always and everywhere! Thanks for your reply.

[@yourfriendlyneighborhoodin1559]

Flee the antichurch. Christ sacrificed himself only once. Hebrews 9:24-28 ESV - For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

[@yourfriendlyneighborhoodin1559]

Paul sought for a righteousness by faith. Philippians 3:8-11 ESV - Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith- that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. Flee this antichurch.

[@idontknowlloyd]

you wanna piss a utilitarian off have or at least the perception of having potential and not use that potential 🤫 🙉 manufacturing emotion

[@bvmheart]

Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God please ask your Divine Son Jesus to 💃🏼Beautify,💃🏼 Youthanize💃🏼Gracious💃🏼Speech💃🏼modesty💃🏼Dress💃🏼Elegantly 💃🏼Stylish 💃🏼Cleanliness💃🏼

[@darrenforster9150]

🇬🇧🎧🎶

[@darrenforster9150]

@aaa bbb Thank you 🇬🇧🎶

[@taehyunjeoung1334]

Patience to the non fathers!!!. Grace of God. Pants for pants!!!

[@taehyunjeoung1334]

Women father? No father man.

[@jackwt7340]

Bell LABS is terrible. Is Europe better than Bell LABS?

[@yourfriendlyneighborhoodin1559]

Regarding Mary's sins and mistakes recorded for us in the Gospels. We cannot read the hearts and minds of others so sometimes it is difficult to tell the difference between a sin and a mistake. 1. John 2:1-12. Mary attempted to take inappropriate authority over Jesus at the wedding at Cana. Jesus immediately and politely told her not to tell him what to do. "what have I to do with thee woman?" 2. Matthew 12:46-50-(and other passages.) Mary attempted to interrupt Jesus when he was ministering to his disciples. A sin or a mistake? Only God knows. Jesus refused to see them. The answer he gave was quite telling. Matthew 12:48-50 ESV - But he replied to the man who told him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” His larger family at one point referred to him as "out of his mind." Mark 3:21 ESV - And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying, “He is out of his mind.” It's clear from the context that Mary was at the very least cooperating with this general feeling in the family because she attempted to interrupt him with them. The Marian doctrines insist that Jesus cannot not say no to Mary, but he did, she was wrong for attempting to interrupt him. There is no avoiding the fact that this would have been somewhat embarrassing for her to be brushed off by her son in public. 3. Luke 2:41-52. In the instance when she lost contact with him when he was 12 years old, Mary questioned Jesus. If she had some transcendent Saint-like knowledge of the true God nature of her child then she would not have been in any "distress". When they reunited Jesus politely rebuked her and said, Luke 2:49-50 ESV - And he said to them, “Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father’s house?” And they did not understand the saying that he spoke to them. Luke records for us that even after his explanation "they did not understand". Though, to Mary's credit it says she "kept all these things in her heart" and then later gave this account to Luke to write down for us. No interpretation is needed, Mary did not understand. Mary's ignorance led her into a mistake. 4. And finally the one that does not need any interpretation because Mary judged herself. Luke 1:47 ESV - and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, Mary freely admitted that she needed a savior. Mary judged herself as a sinner.

[@yourfriendlyneighborhoodin1559]

All doctrine unique to the Catholic church is unnecessary if Christ's sacrifice is complete. If Christ's sacrifice was perfect and he took away all sin past, present, and future than... Penance has no purpose. Purgatory has no point. Absolution is unnecessary. Need I go on? Yes, Christ's sacrifice on the cross is complete and Final. The Bible confirms this repeatedly. Flee this Anti-church. Trust In Christ Alone. Trust in him alone like you would trust a parachute. You can add nothing to a parachute by flapping your arms. Just as you can add nothing to the perfect and finished sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross for all of your sins. Do not cheapen the saviors work by adding mans tradition on to it. Find a church that does not withhold the drinking of the wine from its lowly non-priest membership.

[@ΕλέησονΑμαρτωλόν]

Again Purgationem or Purgatory(the state of Purgationem) has a point. That’s why the Bible specifically mentioned it. Purgationem is accomplished by Christ. This is also what the Catholic Church teaches.

[@thpjmvanbesouw2820]

Gentle recommendation to read (or KZbin) Dr. Peter Kreeft and articles on Saints; perhaps you will discover that Jesus' institution of a Church and Sacraments are necessary ingredients to obtain salvation. If this were not so, the Catholic Church would have ceased to exist a looooong time ago.

[@yourfriendlyneighborhoodin1559]

@@thpjmvanbesouw2820 I'd rather read Hebrews. It tells me that even if Saints were real and the apostles just forgot to mention them... I still wouldn't need them I've been warmly invited to boldly approach the very throne of God to ask for grace and mercy. Therefore, I wouldn't need Saints... Hebrews 4:14-16 ESV - Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

[@yourfriendlyneighborhoodin1559]

@@ΕλέησονΑμαρτωλόν Hebrews seems to be a theme today. Correct, the word "purification" is in the scriptures, now, go back and read that verse and you will see that the purification has been completed and Jesus has sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high. Thank you for calling attention to one of the verses that speaks of the finished work of Christ. There are, of course, much more express statements about this finished work of Christ in scripture, shall we look at some of those? Hebrews 1:3 ESV - He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

[@ΕλέησονΑμαρτωλόν]

@@yourfriendlyneighborhoodin1559 Purgationem is καθαρισμον.

[@bvmheart]

WE ARE ON THE WINNING TEAM 🇻🇦YEAR 33 🇮🇱AGE 33 ✝️INRI🇮🇱KEYS PLACED UPON ST. PETE🇻🇦HOLY SEE🇻🇦BLESSED VIRGIN MARY MOTHER OF GOD PLEASE ASK YOUR SON DIVINE JESUS TO DEPLETE ENEMIES IN POWER &#'S