How He Sold 1,000,000+ Copies Of His Game (Thomas Vandenberg) - Full Time Game Dev Podcast Ep. 030

[@thomasbrush]

► Get 50% off Full Time Game Dev for New Year's: fulltimegamedev.mykajabi.com/ftgd

[@timothyeggers7825]

Your game looks super impressive man, it's a day 1 pickup for me. Just release it already haha

[@HopperGameDevelopment]

I’m so glad you interviewed Thomas Vandenberg. He’s such a humble, down-to-earth guy.

[@valkoinendev]

Vandenberg has that perfect pacing when he talks and you can even see it in Thomas who pulls down his pace too. Love it.

[@thomasbrush]

So calming!

[@valkoinendev]

@ Was nice to see. Thanks for the uploads.

[@russiannotation]

I rarely comment on youtube, but I want to express my appreciation to the series of these interviews. The great present for the New Year.

[@garrettbillian6340]

Vandenberg is a class act. I bugged him about his art process on Cloud Gardens, and he was really insightful and kind.

[@DesignedByTaz]

42:59 I’m sure the stress never goes away but there is a comfort in knowing that you’ve built a fantastic audience here and these people (myself included) will continue to purchase your games just out of gratitude. Hopefully there is some peace in that.

[@Gemwielders]

One of your best podcasts yet. And only partly because of the wonderful and enormously likeable guest. I think he managed to also bring out the honest and relatable sides of yourself. Thank you and take care!

[@kirpich158]

thanks for bringing all of these devs and creating podcasts with them. I think a lot of people had the urge to hear them speak, so your channel is like a goto platform for such stuff

[@kikofoods]

I love Kingdom, such an incredible game. Probably the best interview so far, totally helped me getting motivated and not being brought down by a more methodical approach.

[@d.o.a7552]

Get the kenshi lead dev he is prolly a treasure trove of intresting topics

[@ivanopol]

Dude, what you do is art! I love this podcast. Happy New Year!

[@Ammerfest]

*Timestamps* [00:00] *Introduction* > Games: _Kingdom, Cloud Gardens, Pizza Possum, Garbage Country_ > Mentions: _Jonas Tyroller, Paul Schnepf_ [01:00] *Design philosophies* > Focused game design > Past projects > Mentions: _Friedemann Allmenröder (Grizzly Games), Raw Fury_ [08:38] *Initial experiences with publishers* > Making flash games > iPad as a gaming platform [10:28] *Pros and cons of working with publishers* > Accountability > Financial pressure > Focusing on game development > De-Risking > Mentions: _Daniel McNeely (Armor Games), Jay Armstrong, Devolver Digital_ [16:54] *Betting everything on a single game* [18:09] *Analytical vs. intuitive design approaches* > Designing for commercial viability [20:56] *Luck and Skill* [21:50] *Blending genres* [24:09] *Contrasts in game design* [25:26] *Analytical vs. intuitive design approaches (cont.)* [28:41] *Working alone vs. in a team* [30:09] *Looking back at 2024* > Consolidation of the games industry > Increasing competition > Better tools > Mentions: _Edmund McMillen_ [33:51] *Advice for 2025* > Reducing risk with small budgets [36:11] *Early Access* > Mentions: _Julian Ball (@FlowStudio)_ [40:21] *Being employed* [44:13] *Community Questions* [44:30] *#1: What game could you never stop playing as a kid?* [45:11] *#2: Have you ever scrapped a major feature or mechanic?* > Removing stuff is essential > Games: _Half-Life 2, Twisted Tower_ [50:39] *Game Design Documents* [52:53] *Scrapping a game after three years* [55:52] *#3: How do you know when a game is ready?* [56:46] *#4: How much should you plan ahead your first game?* > Planning vs. discovering a game *References:* Half-Life 2: 20th Anniversary Documentary (49:19) kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3TNf4dvpqydnpY

[@thomasbrush]

Gonna put into the description! I'll credit you ofcourse

[@martinstrnad641]

Love your interviews, another amazing one!

[@alekbq]

Really happy to find Thomas and be able to follow and learn from his work!

[@Cope5]

Really love these interviews and the perspectives your guests bring. Some feedback: Sometimes it feels a little bit like you're pushing your own ideas too hard instead of pulling on threads--if a guest reinforces your idea, you go on a 3-minute monologue about your experience. It's your show and you're allowed to do that if you want, but I'm sure that's not your goal and you're probably already aware of this. Seems evident that you're growing the interviewing muscle. Keep it up, thanks for the content.

[@TAngelo930]

Another great podcast. These are so motivating to listen to, and I appreciate the vulnerability that you and your guests have to talk about your lives outside off game dev and the stresses you face. I think that level of openness and honesty separates this podcast from other game dev podcasts in a big way.

[@Zeshio]

I wishlisted Garbage Country last year because it looked cool, had no idea it was by Thomas. Makes me even more excited!

[@lucasbonatti1664]

this guy is so chill that I forgot about all the stress of my game

[@3ddojo]

very nice interview. I love hearing other fellow game developers chat about their experiences! Even for me I have so much story to tell and my upcoming. specially with my game "DA PAPER BOY". Thanks for the inspiration!

[@kizuna.gamestudio]

What a great way to finish 2024! Thanks Thomas for these interviews!

[@vitobrx]

O loved it! Thank you both guys ❤

[@aggoserinn]

What I have found out from watching these podcasts is that I should have been named Thomas to be a successful Indie.

[@NicoGamedev]

I really like the interviews, I'm glad you're doing so many of them now. It's really interesting how different all the guests are and that there isn't this one best way to gamedev that suits us all

[@rodroeq7956]

I freaking love Kingdom, is my relaxing game, I was never able to pinpoint who made it, I'm going to watch this right now. Thomas you are killing it with this interviews, tons of inspiration, thank you so much.

[@skaruts]

Kingdom: New Lands is one of the very few games I still play on occasion these days. It's amazing to me how such a simplistic gameplay can make such an engaging game. And it looks beautiful.

[@GrantHaffner]

Fantastic inspiring interview!!! Thank you 🙏

[@soggy_dev]

It's interesting to hear him say he was forced to make Kingdom simple with horizontal movement and dropping coins being the only interactions. I've always viewed that as an incredible piece of design and ingenuity that I think is a huge part of why Kingdom is so successful. It feels like a much deeper game than that simplistic control scheme should allow, so the skill floor is on the ground but so much great gameplay emerges from it

[@rafss99]

So motivating. I'm really thinking on starting my game after this.

[@haleightucker6116]

This podcast is so insightful thank you for doing these interviews!

[@DarkDiaspora]

Such an amazing dude. Loved his last plug timing. Handled it in a way I could wish to handle many situations in life. Respect and PS. Loved his life original title.

[@DNAbro]

That last minute with the drilling interrupting the send off had me dying. Really insightful talk, never heard of Garbage Country so now I’ll keep a look out for it.

[@piratemin_vr]

Contrast is something I had never thought of, feel like that's just unlocked something in my brain when it comes to getting inspiration.

[@timithius7885]

Yep, noodling helps (me at least) build a game from the ground up. Often I do this just for a nice picture or small video - just because I enjoy that - but it also means I am often prototyping/prefabbing entire scenes. Hopefully I can use this approach in conjunction with a more structured approach... Excellent podcast, again! It's really great hearing you and other game devs talking about the paths that got you all where you are - truly inspiring!

[@ichigen511]

"By twice I don't mean twice A LOT, I mean only twice" had me rolling.

[@zZMazeZz]

Another fantastic interview

[@Simon-et4hu]

Yes Z! My first rts that I played ^.^ This game and C&C Red Alert made me fall in love with rts games. There is something about the visuals of many same colored units moving around that I really liked.

[@Albert-Freeman]

Kingdom Two Crowns was one of my most played games this year, even if I had to enjoy it alone, it was an amazingly thought game, this podcast is a great surprise to end the year, I finally can put a face and words on this dev :)

[@mehmedcavas3069]

how to have success with your indie game 1st: your name must be Thomas 2nd: no second rule all Thomas indies have a good indie game career :D

[@TomLiKESLemons]

I'm glad to hear this haha

[@MarcV_IndieGameDev]

GTP says: "most common name" linked to successful indie game developers (since success in game development transcends names), certain names come up frequently due to the prominence of specific individuals in the indie gaming scene. Here are a few examples: Jonathan (Jon): Linked to Jonathan Blow, the creator of Braid and The Witness. Phil: Associated with Phil Fish, the developer of Fez. Mark: As in Markus "Notch" Persson, the creator of Minecraft. Lucas: Referencing Lucas Pope, known for Papers, Please and Return of the Obra Dinn. Toby: As in Toby Fox, the creator of Undertale. XD

[@thomasbrush]

😂

[@mahkhardy8588]

Wishing the best new year for everyone. Yet another great interview to cap off the year 2024. Power to the Tom's ✊️

[@AlastairGames]

thanks, love the interviews

[@nickpiquita]

Thomas' sense of humour is too good 😅

[@dirtyderkus]

I loved this podcast. I made my first game as a learning project but meant a lot to me and that’s how I liked it. I don’t expect it to make much but I spent almost $0 making it. Now I know so much more for my second project!

[@sirchristopher7684]

I love the Kingdom Two Crowns series. It is incredibly fun and unique. I'm glad you did this interview.

[@saranga_dahanayka]

Love this interview.

[@HettyP]

Thank you Thomas and Thomas for so many thomas we have thomas today!

[@tequilasunset4651]

Wait, this guy made Cloud Gardens too? Love that game.

[@andreasgaschka]

48:00 in my experience, artists are much more comfortable throwing away stuff than coders, as it's part of the iterative nature of design and decision-making in art. That's why coders came up with frameworks like agile to embrace testing. Often rebuilding a feature from scratch is faster and better than bloating a feature to make it fun, and sometimes you simply have to cut it.

[@luckywright7285]

Ahhh, was hoping for this interview 🫶

[@LogicStudios_1]

Great as always. It would be amazing to have Notch or Dani on the podcast 🙏

[@julesarmani7650]

I feel like if we are having fun making the GDD, then it's safe to stick with it

[@damori3604]

I love your podcasts 🙏🙏

[@dabunnisher29]

Thomas Vandenberg seems like a really cool cat.

[@michaelsmith5894]

Stardew valley... I keep thinking of the success of that game from a solo developer. I'm working solo on an open world rpg. My first ever project. Only started learning game dev with Unreal 5 or 6 months ago. So, all my time spent I chalk-up to learning and do not expect a big pay-day. So even when calculating my time/ and how much it could or should be worth isn't a factor. My time spent on this project is invaluable and will benefit me for years to come. I'm guessing next project will be a lot different. I enjoyed this podcast though. First time viewer. Subscribed!

[@distantforest2481]

Vandenberg process sounds similar to the dev of Balatro. (Atleast from what was said from a video essay of the dev of Balatro). The dev pretty much noodled on his game as well for a few years. Mostly having a lot of fun while coding, like what Vandenberg talked about the "play" aspect of game development. He also knew he wasn't following the common advice of working on several prototypes and felt a bit like he lucked on it. He just started on what he thought was fun and what he thought his friends might find fun as well. Anyway I'm seeing a lot of parallels between Vandenberg and Localthunk (the dev of Balatro)... Maybe you could get him on as well?

[@cesarsfalcao]

That's so cool @52:00!!!

[@singgih_nn]

Really love the series.... I get almost all the game series in all platform android, ios, steam for PC 😅

[@dwinantoprayoga5628]

garbage country looks so good i wishlist it right away, i hope i can play this game

[@DeiversonSilveira]

I didn't know Kingdom: New Lands, I bought it, it's 80% off, the game's art is inspiring, I loved it, I'll soon watch the entire video of the interview with him, but this beginning was too inspiring!

[@TYNEPUNK]

yeh, making a game is like playing a game in itself, a very very bloody hard game that no one else gets to play, but in the end when you "finish the game" out comes an actual game others can play, and its based on the hardcore game the designer just played. Also this guy Vandenberg seems well cool.

[@divandebruin5767]

Thomas how long is your course, is it a once off payment or do you pay an annual fee?

[@atom-2077]

what is with the random zooms on thomas's face in every podcast its so jarring

[@thomasbrush]

😂

[@BrandonCourt]

damn i missed it

[@GC-jm9bt]

55:00 Sounds a bit like Dreamworld. Just a giant open world sandbox where people can build stuff.

[@FeyFen]

The GDD yes or no discussion is very much architect vs gardener writers, if you are not familiar with that, you might want to look it up. It's basically writers who plan out ther novels before writing (architects), so they know what will happen in detail before sitting down and writing and those who discover the story while writing (gardeners).

[@marcusmaximum2145]

hi could you have talk with a developer that work on visual novel game , cause there so little develops and info that genre

[@panxgames]

Hi guys! I have a question for both Thomas! I hope you're doing well! I'm currently working on the demo for my game, and I was wondering how you define what to include in a demo. Do you think it's better to include only the beginning of the game, or would showcasing a more advanced section be more effective? I’d really appreciate any tips or insights you could share! Thanks in advance.

[@thomasbrush]

Think about your end goal, and work backwards :) is it to sell to a publisher? Convince them. How do you do it? How do you hook them and convince them it’s going to be profitable to invest in? or… is it to use to get wishlists? How to hook the player enough to make them wishlist? That’s the idea! A hyper polished, punchy 30 minutes of gameplay should do it. For my linear game Twisted Tower, my goal is to establish mystery, motivation, and a super fun experience right away and last for thirty mins

[@panxgames]

@@thomasbrush Thanks a lot for the answer. I've been following your channel for a long time here from Brazil, and I share your concerns about whether it’s worth making a game. It's a gamble, 😄but when doubt comes, I try to keep the faith and do the best I can, because we do games for love but we need the money. I’ll try to move forward with development without a publisher, but if a good offer comes along, I’ll consider it. I know we’re all very busy, but if you're curious, I’m planning to release a playtest version with the entire first chapter before the demo. If you’d like to try it, just let me know-it would be a pleasure! Happy New Year !!! 🎊🎉 May all our dreams come true!

[@SableLakeGames]

​@@panxgames You can do it - smash it!

[@myurigg]

People are more critical of early access games because time and time again there has been far to many people that hide behind "early access" to string people along without the intention of ever improving their game and making excuses to siphon as much money as they can before they abandon it all together.

[@BrandonCourt]

Really appreciate Thomas V being accepting like 'that's just the way it is' when you talk about what you thought was inefficient level design. Game dev is messy and there's no formula. If you follow a formula, you will get a type of game.

[@FFFFPPPP]

He said he’s released two games but there are 4 different Kingdom games (the 1st one, New Lands, Two Crowns and its DLCs and the new one set in an 80s Amblin movie universe). Did he do all of them? If so then Id say 5 games since theyre not just the exact game every time. Theyve grown and added more as they went on.

[@ThePixelExpedition]

He said he made the first one and then sold the IP.

[@tgojevic]

Raw Fury and Fury Studios made the games after the original Kingdom.

[@Katie-kt9db]

I think for early access I assume they want more feedback on the game so I take more time to provide critical feedback

[@GameDevGeeks]

this is really late in local time I'll watch this tomorrow

[@rinatennouji5988]

I spend like over 50 h across the Kingdom games. They're addicting.

[@swankzilla]

I also loved "Z". I rented it several times before buying it

[@1jerrycamacho497]

I like the channel and i heard recently that you felt like there was something off(i forget but it was something like bad reviews or comments or something). I think you would feel better(and the channel might grow) if you did something like a Game Jam, or "Pass the Game"(or something). Maybe your niche is that there IS communication and you comment about how that communication went. what should they have talked about that they missed? Maybe each game starts with you creating the basic layout(you set the theme kinda like in a game jam but the kind where the theme is "Use this: ..."). Or maybe you can host a small game jam. OR... instead of the "Joe Rogan" style of interviewing where you just let the person talk and look for places to have them talk more by asking them to elaborate on something like a therapist that doesn't care, maybe you can see that the one interview you did recently with a guy had such good reviews because its one of the rare moments where you were actually personal. This is like standard college essay interviews but I know you can do better, i watched the whole video. Quit playing GAMES(pun) with your heart(double pun).

[@Privater_Petrie]

does your course teach coding as well?

[@MUCKEY2000]

Kingdom is the best thing since Tetris.

[@vivegamespk]

it helped me

[@erelian_sardonic]

talk with Leene from Placeholder Games

[@4mIlr]

this is all I want Kingdom is insane

[@TheBugB]

Omg I love the kingdom games

[@MxzStudio]

15:15 for me RockGame help me so much for my first game.

[@kostariev_vadim]

Surprisingly, I follow him on Twitter (fuck Musk, it's Twitter, not the letter X) but I didn't even suspect about his previous games, I only looked at tweets with the game where the car is

[@gamedevai]

Why is the ipad the worst platform to play games.? Am I missing anything . All the games I made and currently making are exclusively for ipad and iphones. Can anybody help to explain? Thanks 😢

[@bardiasadighi5868]

Phil fish when

[@thomasbrush]

Man I wish!!

[@bardiasadighi5868]

I think it will happen​@@thomasbrush

[@RiPPiNGSTiCKS]

the talk about publishers is SOOOOOOOOOOOO OBVIOUSLY similar to music in the early 2000s... indie devs to 1000 billion

[@comalab2387]

Germany has free insurance eh.

[@Cooo_oooper]

It often feels like you are trying to get advice from the other gamedevs for your situation which I kind of dislike. Maybe keep it more focused on their games and processes and Let your guests speak some more

[@FruityRhythms]

Dude his name is Thomas van den Berg, not "Vandenberg" or "Vanderberg" 😂

[@pedroluzio]

I think that people need to stop thinking about if is viable or not... if is the game I want to make or not. Cant it be both? I think that things should never be black or white. Indie game developers should make the games that they like, that should be their "purpose", but why not combine that with a bit of money/marketing strategy. If I have a game that I want to make, but that might not be "viable"... why cant I change a some tiny bits that would make it more viable... but still the game we want to make?... and vice-versa.

[@VastavPansuriya]

this one is scary

[@whamcogames]

Pizza Possum was great!

[@JakubSK]

I don't know a single person that has any of these games.

[@shafindev]

Hi

[@WeAreCameron]

i like these interviews but a couple times you've said some people are okay working a job they hate. no they aren't.... that doesn't make sense, and it's annoying to hear said out loud in the current economy.

[@giampaolomannucci8281]

Something's off with this dude, seems like he interviews people to talk about himself, not the guest

[@coquibunny8797]

👍❤️

[@TyCliffe]

too much time talking about games, not enough time making games.

[@shafindev]

Pin plz. Big Fan

[@andrewsouthwick5145]

"Constantine" - Keanu Reeves movie where he visits Hell -> en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_(film) Great interview with Thomas Vandenberg (consistent and insightful and genuine as always), Thomas Brush. ✅️ Thanks, and happy new year to all! ✨️✌️🙂🌎🌍🌏✨️

[@dimitriskiourtsoglou5640]

Nice interview, I have been working 5 years as a 9-5 developer for a company the produces English language books (I turn them into interactive software), i love my day job, but with 2 kids I am struggling to make my own game. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fGTShoquaa9oocU