How To Make Money From Your Game In 2025 w/ Chris Zukowski - Full Time Game Dev Podcast Ep. 025

[@thomasbrush]

Can we give Chris and his golden microphone a HUGE round of applause emojis below? ► Get Chris awesome newsletter (for real it's incredible): howtomarketagame.com/free/ ► Get 50% off Full Time Game Dev for New Year's: fulltimegamedev.mykajabi.com/ftgd ► Learn how to make money from your indie games (free webinar): www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-how-to-make-six-figures

[@CCowleyMedia]

*applause* 👏👏 🎤

[@sebas1111_]

Chris The Rizzer 👏👏

[@OldDogStudioVG]

[@Comic_Culture]

I hv been following u guys for quite some time. Extremely great value for indiegamedevs 👍👍👍❤❤❤🤗🙏

[@cj2dabj]

Youre killing it with these podcasts thomas

[@ArksideGames]

pls don't die

[@AlchemicalWorks]

I absolutely adore Chris-he has this incredible knack for breaking things down with relatable analogies that make everything so easy to grasp and actually put into practice. He’s such a gift to the indie dev community. Huge thanks to him-and, of course, to Thomas for the interview and asking all the right questions. You both nailed it!

[@simonmalicek]

I've never seen Chris in such a high resolution

[@BronsonBragg]

For real. Up until this point, I thought he was just a blurry guy.

[@howtomarketagame]

@@simonmalicek buy my masterclass. All HD vids

[@amirshokuhi]

lmao

[@yashkaushik6116]

hahahaha!1 thats funny man

[@howtomarketagame]

This is Chris Zukowski, if you have questions or comments I will answer them here

[@thomasbrush]

Guys. Chris is in the house. He’s here to take you the Real Steam party

[@calintow-1385]

Chris, what are your thoughts on the Retro FPS genre? (Games like Ultrakill, Dusk, etc…) Do you feel like those games have a place in the future, or is it an over saturated genre?

[@colin_actually]

Do you need a gimmick to stand out in a saturated genre like metroidvania?

[@RevolverOlver]

Can a poor quality game succeed if the genre, concept, content and mechanics is on point?

[@RushedYT]

I've heard you recommend demos and steam next fest, is it still worth to make a demo for small games? I'm working on a small game for fun, as a hobby, if that matters. Just not sure if I should make a demo or not.

[@jomesias]

Awesomeness !! Thank you so much for having Chris as a guest!! I learned so much from both of you! I will definitely grab Chris’ Steam Masterclass!! Wish I had enough for the entire bundle 😂😂

[@nickpiquita]

I've watched most of Thomas' videos and this is one of the best. Can't believe it doesn't have more views, this video in my opinion should be watched the most as it has so many good pointers and tips. It also has a lot of "real talk" and what happens in the real world.

[@arvinrohani3225]

the amount of contents from this channel is so high like daily i see 3-4 video, not mentioning they aren't short and pretty useful information that make sense

[@CarbonCitizen]

Thomas has an important release coming. He's firstly putting his theory on audience activation to the test and secondly providing us a great dev resource. Ramping up the channel content is strategic and I would not have given the time of day to his upcoming game without this influx.

[@Arturaczkowski]

When I saw notification I was so excited to watch it. I actually am solo dev and I sold 65k+ copies from just 2 games I released in 2024. This video now explained to me how to approach 2025 with new energy. Thanks too both of you Guys!

[@CaptainSparrow-k2i]

How do you do that? U do devlog or post in twitter, show trailer? Or you directly put on steam just curious

[@Arturaczkowski]

@ Twitter & KZbin. Rest is organic, I have big discord server.

[@lifeartstudios6207]

how did you determine genres and such?

[@Arturaczkowski]

@@lifeartstudios6207 I do horror, just horror until I die. This is a gente that always sells, no matter what you expect. For me it was mostly viral twitter announcements and trailers on IGN that almost all of them had more than 400k views.

[@phdost3267]

Bro, Chris is freaking amazing wtf. I'm watching at 2.5x speed and he's intense af, love it!

[@vdimension6300]

Mr Zuckowsky is a legend!

[@3DPrinterAcademy]

Yes! Finally another guest with the correct lighting!

[@ssuversa]

This by far the most awaited podcast since Thomas started doing it, i am a Chris student and Thomas's as well

[@k1ng_chicken]

This guy knows what’s up

[@AndreyMakarov-i7h]

He has a golden microphone

[@thealkemistlab1111]

Email is the og of marketing. Email lists fed me literally. Even in the earliest stages of the mediorcore -ok game youre working on you can get so much funding just by simple emailist.

[@socialkidmusic]

VERY TRUE! this still works.

[@harneetsingh9420]

Seeing Chris is an instant like on the video, there is always something to learn in his videos. And i respect Thomas but at some stage in video I really appreciated Chris spitting facts like when thomas said medicore game and some marketing get 100k, chris didnt agree then thomas goes ok normal yearly wage, Chris again not really agreeing because I agree that it'svery hard to say what that game will make.. This is good, because i understand you are selling a course for gamedev but please dont sell high expectations. Other than that, good talk lads thanks and Thomas for inviting Chris and keep going. God bless all.

[@howtomarketagame]

@@harneetsingh9420 I will never lie when it comes to game dev marketing. When it comes to other things I will lie all the time.

[@ViteziGames]

This is a goldmine worth of material for indie game devs. Thank you !

[@SirOlyn21]

"If you are a game dev from like Tulsa" That's LITERALLY me and my small dev team! Our steam page will be up very soon for our first commercial release set for the first half of next year!

[@sendmechecks]

What's the title of your game?

[@zionen01]

Being a purely technical person, Chris insight is very useful. And indeed marketing will always be relevant because I think we all know of pretty great games that went under the radar.

[@i-am-the-slime]

Are there? I barely find anything to play. Animal Well, Balatro, and Drova were good. That's it

[@Jeremy7809]

The most inspiring game dev podcast episode, I'm now ready to release my game in 2025!

[@EricWilliamsCG]

3:26 Depends on your definition of failure, if the airplane makes it out of the yard but not down the block is that a success or failure?

[@jomesias]

Just bought Chris’ Steam MasterClass last night!! Pulled the trigger now that it’s at a special price 🎉🎉

[@BigTuna-Games]

Fantastic podcast Thomas! I think Chris always has great insight for devs! I took a list of notes and when I release my first game, I’m going to come back and watch this again! My goal is to be on your podcast as a successful solo indie dev! Mark my words!

[@Chewbert]

Ain’t no party like a Valve Diddy party!

[@nubemuffin]

Thomas, you're the game-dev podcast goat.

[@exiscoming5509]

I would actually love a video on how to market adult games. I'm an 18+ developer and it's very hard to get the word out about your game. So if you ever get to interview an 18+ developer, I'd love to see him on the Podcast.

[@geck-wiz]

Been waiting for an episode with Chris!

[@sajidahnaf]

finally! the man, the myth! Love his newsletter btw

[@MalikFrost12]

Chris is the marketing goat 🐐🏆

[@BlenderEveryDay17]

Tons of value in this. Great podcast

[@hapus1]

This is so good. And I'm not even making games. The advice here applies to all digital products.

[@eerieentity3139]

This is literally the most valuable information and I will probably watch it 1000x if I could

[@tymondabrowski12]

Go to his website, he has a blog and there os so much info there. With charts and examples and everything.

[@m0rph3u5.]

As always, thanks Thomas for yet another thought-provoking interview with the legendary Chris. Your metaphors and insights into the abundance of games available today are spot on. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but I’ve observed a troubling trend: many games on platforms like Steam seem to be little more than reskinned versions of online courses, especially from sources like Udemy. It’s disappointing to see creators barely putting in any effort to make these products unique. This issue isn’t limited to games-it’s also prevalent on the Epic Marketplace, where clones of assets from KZbin tutorials or courses like GameDevtv/Udemy often pop up. Some are so lazy that they haven’t even bothered to change the textures on the models. This might explain why many 'studios' only manage to release a single game or a barely altered replica of a course before fading into oblivion

[@daniellyons6269]

This podcast is consistently awesome!

[@DesignedByTaz]

52:41 correction though, you don’t own your social media audience, you’re renting them 😉 You own your email list or website subs. This is why porting your “rented” audience to your “owned” audience is so important!

[@guiltedrose]

I agree with him 100% I rarely used my email until I started my degree. Before that it was used to keep track of school work and games and not much else. Kids just have fewer responsibilities and therefore don’t need to check as often.

[@WyrmyrGames]

I’ve learned everything I know about game marketing from these two. Looking forward to this!

[@DesignedByTaz]

Well done gentlemen, great talk!!!

[@cloogshicer]

Dude please stop interrupting people. Your podcast guests are so interesting but your interview style can be improved so much!

[@Chewbert]

Respectfully disagree, I thought it was a great episode.

[@BronsonBragg]

It's bleak for most small businesses, honestly. July-October were my worst months in years for my non-game-related business (like... 1/4 gross revenue as usual.) I think people in general are more strapped for cash and simply can't afford as many things as they'd like. Larger businesses are doing just fine. Good news is I'm seeing things get back to half of normal. give it another year, I hope? (btw, Thomas if you see this I'd be happy to send you a gift from my aforementioned business. no strings attached. I just get a lot of value from your videos and I want to express my appreciation.)

[@gameboardgames]

Big Chris Z fan, going to make some popcorn brb.

[@abdullahnaim10]

Best gamedev podcast!!!

[@facelessanon]

Hey, if Chris is seeing this, please let him know that I also watched the video with Code Monkey AKA Hugo Cardoso Glad to see him with two of my favorite Unity devs.

[@t.e.e.j.a.y]

Awesome content, thanks Thomas, thanks Chris 🤌🏼🙏🏼

[@zachmansoor50]

This hit at the perfect time for me, just released my first game and the launch was underwhelming to say the least. But I’ve got that first one out of the way and learned a ton. Already blowing up that next balloon

[@MrWizarddog]

I would like to offer some valuable insight. Wishlists have another layer that i have never heard many people talk about if at all. Most people's wishlist on steam have several other games as well. Mine for example has 103 as of right now. So wishlists are great but you are also competing with all the other games on your potential buyers wishlist.

[@tymondabrowski12]

The idea is that when your game launches and then every time it gets on sale, the people who wishlisted it will get an email about it. It's not just people going through their wishlists.

[@ArksideGames]

Ah yes. the golden microphone returns

[@ReDkOaLa64]

i been staring at that since the start of the video

[@thacoolest13]

Another analogy. It’s like buying a battle pass and never doing the quests to level it up

[@howtomarketagame]

Good one.

[@erispe]

The main thing I hate about emails is that it's 90% marketing and 10% something useful. Every time I log in I'm like "great, before i can open this important one I got to select half a page of junk and just immediately delete". I've been unsubscribing from useless emails for the past 15 years but it just NEVER ENDS. So yeah, email marketing cannot die soon enough

[@MrChambers]

I love this man. Romantically.

[@shawns4354]

Night Stones. An amazing bite size cozy adventure game made by a solo dev who ran a successful kickstarter but still very much gone unnoticed. Needed more marketing.

[@davecal1991]

This one was legendary!

[@briceouvaroff5534]

I'll say Thomas that this "brand building" is kind of an overconfidence at this point. Chris was talking about whishlist conversions that can be very different from one game to another: i really do think that some whishlists that come from over-pushing ads and youtube "please give me a wishlist" trend are not as "valuable" (bad conversion rate) compared to the less "forced" one. What i want to say is that 200k whishlists coming from your audience will not convert as good as outside whishlists coming from "non bias, truthfully interested players".

[@tymondabrowski12]

I think I even vaguely remember Chris saying the same, that constantly pushing people to wishlist "to support me" (or people doing it thinking it's better for the creator) might backfire in a form of disappointing conversion. He talked about quality of wishlists s few times, I remember that festival wishlists might not convert as well as those you get from a youtuber playing your game.

[@littlephoenix]

I love Chris so much😂

[@EastshadeStudios]

Woah Christmas came early!

[@AndrzejGieraltCreative]

Rewatching - it's crazy to me that "30k wishlists in a year" is described as DECENT and 100k in a year is "this COULD be a hot one" lol MAN this line of work is brutal hahaha

[@i-am-the-slime]

Could you make a version of these interviews with only what the guests say?

[@arcadeheroes1]

Great podcast guys!

[@-LightSmit]

I really enjoyed this guys - thanks! Learned a lot for PLAYNESE, my Japanese & English language game :) Best - L

[@OldDogStudioVG]

11:30 Discovery queue is nice, but it's not super helpful for me. Perhaps because I have already watched Splattercat's video on anything interesting and wishlisted it, leaving Steam nothing to suggest to me. And the algorithm will still suggest things I would never pay to play just because they are generally popular world- country-wide. (CoD is an example.)

[@howtomarketagame]

The DQ is for a sub class of player that are super players. They buy everything. Play everything. They are experimenters. The reason they are so important is they are typically the people who go to their friend groups and say "I just played game X, you have to play it" so you get word-of-mouth sales. There are very few people who are die hard Discovery Queue gamers, but it is a very very potent group which is why it is so important for developers.

[@AlexGorskov]

Nice, thanks fot the vid!

[@danielchavez9367]

Interesting stuff, I always viewed it as the bad sinks to the bottom and the good floats. Maybe I was wrong in thinking that way...

[@megawill04]

On the topic of completing games, could it good to complete small game demo's as a way of completing games? By demo's i mean like those that are like 30 mins in gameplay length🤔

[@prototypechannel6975]

Proudly been in the chocolate tier for a few years.. pretty funny getting it every year.

[@jaredkidd6685]

How do you find press? Anytime I searched indie game press I don’t know if I’m getting good results or press with good audiences. Chris mentioned PC gamer but where do you find these people?

[@howtomarketagame]

Search those sites for who covered indie games. then search the internet for their contact info. Then reach out to them in a non creepy way.

[@GingerCat_Studios]

37:30 Its me 😭😭😂

[@AcrylicPixel]

Really useful info here

[@misha00838]

David Waylee and Tomath Brush. That was supposed to happen at some poiny

[@AndrzejGieraltCreative]

They've done 2 or 3 interviews together already

[@misha00838]

@@AndrzejGieraltCreative oh, didn`t know that. btw great videos man

[@GingerCat_Studios]

38:00 I think developing games is like having a band, you can easily become a millionaire, or simply starve to death.

[@unicodePug]

The crumpled up ball of paper actually flies pretty well. I'm looking at you, Call of Duty.

[@unicodePug]

I think they spit on it to give it more momentum.

[@AndrzejGieraltCreative]

I've been waiting for this crossover for a while. I'm not gonna change my religion for Steam lol but this is such a great talk.

[@ShaneUrbas]

How can I just get 3D Art Pro? I already have all the other courses.

[@manashieldworld]

"I think we're at 100 analogies" "GOOD!"

[@nights312312]

The reason we get 30% more games for every year is because fewer and fewer game devs make money because of all the games, so they start youtube and courses and stuff to encourage other people to become game devs, and round we go, until the whole planet is a game dev..

[@kwcnasa]

Resume @1:09:00

[@funkysloth2902]

$150,000 seems pretty lofty for most developers especially starting out.

[@ArThur_hara]

To be honest making 1K for my first game would already be satisfying to me.

[@Mumbzi]

I like this guy

[@somenoe-com]

How can i get that golden microphone!? 🎤

[@GeckoOverflow]

If I simply manage to release my game on steam without too many issues and manages to be enjoyable I will be happy. If I manage to make a 1$ profit I would be living the dream 😅

[@TorQueMoD]

The 10 reviews is just the threshold to have your reviews tracked on Steam. People don't even see reviews for your game until you have more than 10. Personally, having more than 10 did not help my game at all.

[@ShaneUrbas]

"Yea I love emails!" Said no adult ever!

[@MrWizarddog]

I'm 26 and I only use my email when I need to find a receipt or a verification code. Occasionally when someone contacts me. But I'm aware of that person reaching out. I get so much junk and I don't even bother to look through it.

[@bradleysmith9924]

Chris looks like Cameron Frye from Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

[@Whiggss]

Make a good, genuine experience, and don't sacrifice your game integrity for short-term gains in microtransaction garbage. Build a brand. Build a dedicated audience. Profit.

[@VinciWare]

me with my 500 wishlists... 👀👀

[@DesignedByTaz]

Keep going!!!

[@MikeyOfLegend]

This episode was great but I think we need to start a drinking game every time Chris mentions his website or Thomas name drops someone heh.

[@overfortgames]

We made it to IGN with an exclusive trailer but we didn't make a lot of wishlists 😅

[@cvnerve6463]

Have you been able to postmortem and figure out why?

[@overfortgames]

@cvnerve6463 We are guessing to little gameplay and details, ambiguous genre and difficult game to explain

[@unicodePug]

An example of a fantastic game which completely flopped is Dark Messiah of Might and Magic. In that case, I'm not even sure it was poor marketing that did them in, though. I think it was mostly the malicious game journalists writing hit pieces about it. Yeah, we didn't like that the single player and multiplayer were actually two separate games by two separate developers, but they were each fantastic games in their own rite, so it was really like you were getting two great games for the price of one. The multiplayer did have a lot of performance issues for some reason, but it was still really, really good. Nothing more satisfying than dropping 3 fire arrows straight into the face of an invisible guy trying to sneak around to your back with the triple shot archer skill. "Eat fire, coward!" That's still the best multiplayer FPS with RPG elements ever made, in my opinion. You know, actually I take that back. I think they did, in fact, market the game wrong. They should've just not marketed the multiplayer at all, released it with the single player game, then marketed the multiplayer separately. Then sold skins. Then it would be Call of Duty, am I right?

[@m24f8]

So tl;dr: unless you know Geoff, you can forget about ever making a successful game.

[@willianfrantz8009]

althought I loved this episode af, my ADHD wouldnt let me go of the thought that Chris looks like Ryan Gosling aged, shit I am sorry, thx for sharing such amount of knowledge. dudes freak awesome

[@wolfmantattoosjl8631]

I'm going 100% the other direction. 100% part time, 100% ownership, 100% one and only title, 100% take as much time as possible to make something incredible. Go the way of the old masters: take a lifetime to make your magna carta, epic, your legendary title.

[@lh2pn]

megaman 3 was made in 3 months, dude. the masters didn't have millions to spend to make their games. that's why they were masters.

[@vvvorlds]

Let's change one word, how to sell a startup? That's how.

[@Test12345-n]

Someone need to tell about EFT, how everyone knows about that game. It have it own web page.

[@360dom360]

this guy looks lik IGN's Max Scoville's older brother lol

[@GThermic]

“Steam is not God you gotta poke it”-Thomas

[@tomhiorns5012]

Imagine your game just gets as many sales as this videos views...

[@nicholasblay8343]

What do you do if you don't want to build a brand? I'm not really interested in put my personality out onto the internet to try to build a following, I'm not really built for it. I understand the importance of it and I recognise when people can do it well, like yourself Thomas, but for me that will never be a genuine representation of myself as I simply just don't want to do it.

[@tymondabrowski12]

You don't need it, Chris said that most of the times players don't really care who made the game. Only some people get noticed as authors, most of the time the game is successful and no one knows anything about the person who made it.

[@roosemwandira3572]

Bes episode so far

[@PopescuAlexandruCristian]

"It is not an algorithm, it is just a bunch of rules" sir wtf do you think an algorithm is ?

[@howtomarketagame]

That was my exact point! People sometimes use the word algorithm To describe steam As if it is an ancient religion. I am trying to demystifying it by reminding people an algorithm is just rules.