Attachments or No Attachments? What is "The Way" for the Jedi? (Star Wars Discussion)

[@KS-cz9qc]

Edit: I think Kanan Jarrus’ relationship with Hera, Ezra, Sabine, and the rest of the Ghost crew is the perfect demonstration of how love and attachments can be a Jedi’s strength, not a stumbling block. Tying into this video’s theme, Kanan is repeatedly forced to find balance in his attachments-he learns to trust Ezra to make the right choices rather than trying to control him, and (SPOILERS) in the end, he willingly sacrifices his life to save his loved ones. For me, Rebels perfectly captures how a Jedi is made stronger through close relationships with others, and now we have the writer of Rebels presenting a similar story opportunity to be explored with Grogu… I see what you’re saying that Luke is still demonstrating growth and an improvement over the previous Order’s approach to attachments even if he’s saying Grogu must choose only one path. That said, I’m still hoping Grogu will choose both, learning to find balance in his powers from Luke, and then returning to Din to grow up in the way of family, loyalty, and solidarity. To me, it’s Grogu’s destiny to become the next Mandalorian Jedi.

[@decades1912]

I totally agree, Grogu is going to end up as a new Mandalorian Jedi

[@Sy3m]

Except the Ghost crew is fighting the Empire, for the greater good. Mando fights for his own interests. Is he joining up with Boba to rid Tatooine of the Pyke syndicate for the greater good or to return a favor? Mandalorian Grogu would put the creed before the greater good of the Galaxy. Choosing both objects is possible; Jedi with beskar chainmail is ok... Mandalorian fighting with a lightsaber is ok. Choosing both paths is not; unless Mando's clan decides that "the way" is to defend the weak and seek peace and balance... Sure, Mando is the "good guy" of the show(s) but he's still a bounty hunter seeking to provide for - and grow - his clan.

[@Mourtzouphlos240]

Here is what Lucas means by Attachment: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJy4oIeJaL6iask

[@6runger]

@@Mourtzouphlos240 thanks for sharing that

[@Mourtzouphlos240]

@@6runger Please spread it around. You would not believe how many Star Wars fans are too stupid, lazy, or yes racist to look up some of the most basic tenants of the East Asian Philosophies that the creator of the franchise directly quotes.

[@MCsCreations]

Attachment isn't the problem, Thor. The problem is how someone reacts to the lost of a loved one. And, yes, the force doesn't exist in our universe, BUT attachments can still destroy someone's life. For example, when I was a kid a neighbor had a car accident. He survived, but his wife and twins didn't... He got better, tried to rebuild his life, but he couldn't and ended up killing himself. (And I don't blame him, I honestly don't know what I would do in his place.) Other than that... In the EU we have Mara Jade. I hope they introduce her and he realizes he's wrong with Grogu.

[@Mourtzouphlos240]

Here is what Lucas means by Attachment: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJy4oIeJaL6iask

[@ThreadBareHope1234]

That is a pretty sad story. Sorry you had to see that unfold. I agree on what you were saying about it's more about paying attention to how you react. In general, I think it's good to be aware of our feelings and triggers, so we can understand them and they aren't in control of us.

[@randomt800kiddo2]

the EU stories were made before the prequels introduced the no attachments rule. the only feasible way i could see a jedi having a romantic attachment is if theyre both jedi and are both willing to accept the other's death as part of the force's will, which is much easier said than done for obvious reasons lol. besides, the jedi are an organization of protectors who maintain balance in the force, which comes primarily from destroying the dark side. because of this responsibility, it is a jedi's obligation to maintain vigilance against common outlets for the dark side to manifest, like romantic attachments or a familial bond, and as thor said, it shouldn't be the order's responsibility to alter this rule that has worked for 99.99% of all jedi simply because one single jedi whom shouldnt have been allowed in to begin with broke that rule and became a sith lord

[@ThreadBareHope1234]

@randomt800kiddo That is right. I wish more people understood that jedi have responsibility, practice self mastery/delayed gratification, and are fulfilled in fulfilling those responsibilities, and these are realistically good things that would really balance out western cultures' priorities. I get the feeling they associate denying oneself with self-hatred or deprivation rather than a practice with good and bad uses. Maybe this is a bit off topic, *this may be triggering* . But there is much more to life than pleasure. There's also sacrifices and struggles that will come for us, and we must embrace it. No one said life was easy, but that's what makes the good aspects great.

[@fazbrogaming7776]

It depends on who you ask, according to Qui-Gon-Jin, there is nothing wrong with Jedi having attachments, but only if you are strong enough to let it go if the time comes.

[@roberthesser6402]

And Dave Filoni recognizes this, as he gave that famous lecture/monologue in the behind the scenes for Mandalorian on this very subject. I highly doubt that he’s going to take Luke down the exact opposite path that he knows George intended Luke to go

[@ISD_Chimaera]

people get hung up on the word attachment. If you are willing to let it go it's not a forbidden attachment, it would fall under unconditional love.

[@Babyboss65]

@@ISD_Chimaera Exactly. Thank you for putting it like this. In the context of Star Wars, the word attachment is always to be read as an unwillingness to let go. It's not the same thing as love. People conflate those terms because the old Jedi Order also conflated them, but the entire point was that the old Jedi Order was wrong about that.

[@Mourtzouphlos240]

What you just described is not an Attachment. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJy4oIeJaL6iask

[@nrrork]

The biggest tragedy of the series is Qui-Gon would've been the perfect mentor and father figure to Anakin.

[@nevertrustatory9412]

Was it foreshadowing when Ashoka told Luke ‘sometimes the student teaches the master’. Will Grogu choose both? Will we see an EU Luke embracing family? Plus it would be really cool to see a lightsaber wielding Grogu come to Mando’s rescue in the finale of Season 3!

[@a.wilkerson2nd334]

Yes. That's exactly what it was. Filoni's way of introducing legends material into canon

[@KS-cz9qc]

Din sees Grogu wielding a lightsaber and assumes he’s chosen the Jedi. Then, Grogu shows that he’s wearing the Mando chain mail under his robes and Luke explains to Din, “I’ve taught Grogu everything I can about controlling his fears. The rest he will learn from you.” Then father and son go blasting off into the binary sunset as the Mando theme intensifies…

[@h-dawg969]

Imagine if we find out that Mara Jade and their children do exist. They went into hiding after the school was destroyed. That way Disney wouldn't have ended the entirety of the Skywalker family for no reason other than shit writing, terrible planning and hiring the completely wrong people to head up a trilogy, and the name wouldn't have been hijacked and valor stolen by a Palpatine

[@definitelyarealperson248]

@@h-dawg969 I’d love for them to be alive. Maybe luke presumed they died. Maybe the children were too young to fight so mara jade had to protect them rather than help the rebels. I doubt this will happen though

[@nateavery2875]

Yes and we'll get Mara Jade.

[@thatguy601]

I think you are missing the MOST important part of Anakin. - His mother. In the Attack of the Clones, when she died, it caused a Fear of Loss and the inability to save her. He was hell bent on making sure no one died that he loved. This lead the the unhealthy obsessive behaviour towards Padmé and the unhealthy attachment, leading him to the dark side. Let's introduce the idea Anakin did save his mother. How would have it impacted the relationship with Padmé? Star Wars isn't real life , but unheallthy attrachment is. It can lead people down a dark path to do terrible things. We've seen it many time on the news.

[@sand4273]

I think that Luke is really trying to rebuild the Jedi by the book after the OT (where he didn’t know a ton nor had the responsibility of being the only one left), hence making Grogu have to choose. I think he will realize that having stricter rules in regards to attachment goes against what he himself did in the OT, and that true balance lies somewhere in between.

[@VonJay]

Yeah but then he trains a family member, something Jedi haven't done in thousands of years, that goes dark without creating a contingency/killing him. So there's no way around it. You can't train someone with attachments because the sith will just exploit you through those attachments like Palatine did to Anakin.

[@Mourtzouphlos240]

Here is what Lucas means by Attachment: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJy4oIeJaL6iask

[@VonJay]

@@Mourtzouphlos240 yeah people forget or simply don't know that Lucas is Buddhist

[@anaisdiaz4007]

One of the themes (If not the most importante one) that The Mandalorian explores is about becoming flexible about one's own believes and strict rules (this is shown in how Mando relates with his creed). I've also heard Dave Filoni talking deeply about the problems with the Jedi Order in the prequels and saying that the way they became so unattached (Qui Gon disagreed with this) was one of the reasons of their downfall. Therefore, I actually think you're right. They realized all this and the story should follow the path you're sugesting.

[@privatebh]

I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone explain this concept so well. I believe if more people could understand this the world would be a better place. I’m actually disappointed that so many people miss the point of the Jedi and actually see them as 100% incorrect. When in reality if they took some of the Jedi traits and implemented them in their lives then they would be better off

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

The problem is people forget that, at the end of RotJ, Luke rejected both Yoda and Palpatine’s ways when he chose to not kill his father. Yoda wanted Luke to kill Vader and the Emperor to destroy the Sith while Palpatine wanted Luke to kill Vader so he could be turned and join his side as his new apprentice.

[@macwelch8599]

Attachments don’t lead to the Dark Side, the fear of losing them does

[@rienjen]

Thank you!!! Yes and yes.

[@THETYMEKK12]

YES! It's important to not become dependent of them.

[@macwelch8599]

@@rienjen you’re welcome lol

[@macwelch8599]

@@THETYMEKK12 exactly

[@pantonearqm2791]

But fear of losing attachments is natural part of them and you can't just teach someone not to fear.

[@tomciohippie7049]

What people tend to forget is how in ROTJ Vader triggers Luke with mentioning Leia, what causes Luke to go into a berserk mode and nearly makes him fall to the dark side. Only when he manages to let go of Leia and his own life he is able to save himself and redeem his father. Love and attachments are good things for jedi but as long as they are able to embrace those feelings in a selfless way.

[@HappyKat-wc4ld]

I always thought what happened was that Luke realized his love for Leia could drive him to the dark side, and that made him just like Vader. When he cuts off Vader's hand, he realizes how alike they are. I don't think he let go of her exactly, just realized he was letting the fear of losing her drive him to do the wrong thing. I think that's the balance he was able to find, and I think that would be extremely difficult to do. Maybe that's why he's being this way with Grogu--though he never says he won't let him see Mando ever or anything like that. That might be out of character. But with Grogu being a child still, it makes things complicated. I wouldn't know what to do with him either

[@StoogesFan]

Obi-Wan had strong feelings for Duchess Satine (he even admitted that he would've left the Jedi Order for her if he realized his feelings for her much sooner), yet after she was killed by Maul Obi-Wan never fell to the darkside or even come close to falling. He mourned for her and let go, he kept moving forward and didn't stay stuck in the past.

[@jmwilliamsart]

True, but a normal person would take the time to grieve a little longer, and to process it. It would be nice if Obi Wan showed himself remembering Satine, and crying over her no matter how much time passes. Letting go shouldn’t mean a person should ever be forgotten isn’t that true?

[@JBFJBFJBF]

​@@jmwilliamsartI mean he does say that she still means something to him. Therefore he hasn't forgotten her.

[@maniacalmatt917]

Thank you so much for featuring my comment, It means a lot that you felt it was valuable for the discussion. However I don't think I made my point properly. Another scene from Avatar, that I had forgotten about but is more important than the one I brought up, is the Aang and Iroh tunnel sequence. In the scene, Aang says "I had to give up someone I loved for power, didn't do it, now idk if we can beat Azula." Essentially that, I'm paraphrasing. But Iroh replies as he always does, wisely. "Power and control are over rated. I'm glad you chose love and family over it." "But what if we can't beat Azula? What if I need this power to protect the ones I love?" "I don't have an answer. But I do know that life is like this tunnel. You can get lost in the dark because you aren't sure where you're going. But the important thing is to keep moving, and you will find the light at the end of the path." The point I was trying to make is that forgoing attachments for power, no matter what the power is, lessens the reasons for getting it, and the Jedi philosophy of "Power to defend others bad, it make you go orange eyed evil." Is dumb. I love Star Wars more than any multimedia property, but in this scene, The Jedi are proven wrong. What made Aang let her go, and accept the mantle was fear of losing her. To protect those you love, you need the power to protect and its not a bad thing. If anything it's selfless, whereas the Jedi believe, "If they die, don't miss them, don't be sad ever, there is no emotion, there is only peace." The Jedi did the purge to themselves when they decided an impossible perfectionist stoic lifestyle was the way to go. Look at KOTOR, it took Revan to beat the mandalorians back, someone who was passionate, loving, and strong with the power and will to save others. Yeah, he fell to the dark side, because of the Sith Emporer, not his own passion. And who beat Malak? Revan. A Jedi who fell in love, made many friendships, chose power to save others, and redeemed himself with his own philosophy. He was even rewarded with an allowed marriage to Bastila, something Modern Jedi would say no to above all else. Would the order had let Anikan marry Padme after being a hero in the clone wars, killing Dooku, saving Obi-Wan, and saving trillions? I doubt it. But had it been okay in the first place, nothing bad would have happened. I'm rambling, but that's basically my point.

[@bendo9162]

The problem here is that Anakin was never really taught how to deal with his unhealthy kinds of attachment that he had developed through the experiences of his childhood. Instead, he was rather forced to suppress, ignore, deny and, most importantly, hide them. Most other Jedi of the time did not have these problems as they were introduced into the order as babies or toddlers. I do not believe, Anakin's fall would have happened, had he been able to actually and openly search and ask for help, without shame and without repercussions. He tried in RotS with Yoda, but could not speak openly due to the inflexible rules and nature of the Jedi Order. He had no one he could openly confide in in the order, which were supposed to be his family of sorts - which, in the end, only drove him further towards Palpatine, even in the years before.

[@VonJay]

And none of that other stuff would have happened if the Jedi never trained him in the first place.

[@bendo9162]

@@VonJay Sure, though it might have ended differently and not necessarily better. Palpatine had already developed quite an interest in Anakin after the battle of Naboo. You would have to start earlier and never bring Anakin back from Tatooine. Which is something Qui-Gon - one of the Jedi most in tune with the force - decided to do. If it is the will of the force, Anakin would have received training in the force from someone or something sooner or later.

[@VonJay]

@@bendo9162 it ended perfectly, however Luke still maintained the flaw of attachments. He didn't get full training, was trained too old, and he had already developed possessions or personal relationships before his mind was opened up to the nature of the force. So he's unable to see beyond those possessions in pivotal moments. When a Jedi or person without possessions cannot become emotionally compromised or exploited through them, as what happened with Anakin when Palpatine had the fake cure for his wife and unborn children's death. And Luke when faced with how to discipline his murderous nephew who's the son of his best friend and twin sister.

[@VonJay]

@@bendo9162 i agree. Anakin should have never been trained. Two Jedi broke ancient rules and Mace and Yoda weren't assertive when those two Jedi chose to not only train someone with attachments, but someone who they called angry and impatient. So on several levels he would not have been trained in any other case if Qui Gonn wasn't seduced by the prophecy of the one. The key difference is that Anakin would never be trained by the Jedi and had been able to implode the Jedi. Easier to destroy a thing from within.

[@bendo9162]

@@VonJay The thing is, however, that Anakin did not destroy the Jedi, but merely facilitated their fall. It was Palpatine and, ironically, the Jedi's own already long-standing attachment to the Republic as an institution instead of the will of the force that brought them down. At the end of the Clone Wars, which would have happened with or without Anakin, it was already too late for them. The public had turned on them, the Republic and the Separatists were under control of the Sith and they had lost their way as guardians of peace, instead becoming soldiers that were forced to compromise more and more on their nature and purpose during the course of the war, with not too few Jedi falling entirely to the Dark Side. The Jedi order was not imploded by Anakin, it imploded itself. Anakin was both a risk and an asset for the Jedi, one they failed to handle adequately.

[@mmx9316]

I prefer Luke’s jedi order in Legends than Disney Canon because it’s more different from the old jedi order

[@bolojohnson711]

That's not the point

[@travisgames6608]

When we're those books published btw? Just asking, cause if it was before 1999, then we wouldn't really know what the old order was like before the prequels.

[@mmx9316]

​@@travisgames6608 It’s true that books about Luke’s Jedi Order were released even before the prequels but they still continued to the year 2012 like Jedi Academy Trilogy (1994), and The New Jedi Order series (1999-2003). So yeah, we didn’t know how the old jedi order was different than Luke’s until episode I.

[@saberiandream316]

Well, if the comments section is any indication, headcanon asserts this is Legends anyway, when it isn't.

[@saberiandream316]

@Ultra Brian Filoni was NEVER writing for that universe. He's stated this over and over.

[@OrthoLou]

To me, Jedi always seemed like a combination of Samurai, Catholic priests/monks, and medieval knights... Maybe I'm just projecting, since I'm Catholic, but a lot of their creeds are very similar, and Lucas has said before that he took inspiration from all different religions to design one for his universe.

[@OrthoLou]

@Elizabeth Bennett I completely agree. Not to mention, priests in the eastern rite of the church can be married (I actually had a debate recently on whether or not the church should abolish the celibacy discipline, which is interesting because now it seems Star Wars is debating similar things lol). And yes, Luke is very saintly. He even has the same name as a very famous one who wrote one of the gospel accounts lol.

[@TheMinskyTerrorist]

Yes. A lot of hostility "fans" have to the Jedi is because of a western, secular view of the world that can't fully comprehend the ideas involved.

[@OrthoLou]

@Elizabeth Bennett oh, I do love me some Lord of the Rings too, probably a bit more than Star Wars, but I definitely have more of an attachment to Star Wars from my childhood and know more about the lore.

[@OrthoLou]

@Elizabeth Bennett also agree with your take on the "sequel" trilogy (I like to call it the Disney trilogy or the Kennedy trilogy lol) being about letting sacred tradition die to make way for the new religion of progressivism (so gross...) And nice insights on the themes of the prequels. I always saw the Jedi of the PT era as the Pharisees: they got so focused on their new laws and political involvement that they forgot their sole purpose was to do good for others.

[@HappyKat-wc4ld]

@Elizabeth Bennett I grew up in the church (not Catholic but I have so much respect for Catholicism like I always argued about it with other protestants). I don't go to church at the moment but I still have faith in Jesus and love his teachings. I know that's why the themes in Star Wars resonate with me so much, and why I love the Jedi so much and the story as a whole. I feel so much TRUTH reflected in the story of Star Wars. I agree that Luke is very saint like, or an allegory of what we should aspire to be as people. That's why hearing the message of the Last Jedi of letting the past die, along with seeing Luke brought low was SO painful. We need heroes to look up to, and Luke earned his place in the OT. Rey didn't. I try to ignore the sequels as much as I can--they are so empty and honestly make me feel really depressed.

[@je-nas]

I can't thank you enough for putting this (frankly just plain correct) interpretation out there. I was so happy seeing how seriously the "Filoni-fraveau-verse" is taking the "no attachment" philosophy, only to be dismayed at the half-consensus out there, where supposedly Luke should have learned (by saving his father in RotJ) that fully embracing attachments, just like normal folk do, is totally unproblematic for Jedi. No way. One _has to make a huge personal sacrifice_ in order to devote oneself to the collective good. Of course that creates tension and make the Jedi very interesting characters.

[@12walker92]

Ultimately it's about distinguishing love from morbid attachment. Sometimes there's a fine line between the two, and even the greatest Jedi may see it wrong. I still need to see a good justification for Luke forgetting what unconditional love is and letting Leia, Han and the whole galaxy be at the mercy of the dark side.

[@budahbaba7856]

I don't disagree with you about what the rule of attachment is supposed to be. However, by the time of the Prequels, whether movies, shows, books, comics, you see it in instance after instance after instance that the rules had become a dogma rather than a benevolent guideline. What's worse, was that it was not equally enforced among an Order of ascetics who were supposed to be equal under the law. Do you think it was simply Anakin's own paranoia that he hid his family from the Jedi, even though there were plenty of other Jedi who already had families? Hell no it wasn't! He was held to a different standard of scrutiny and compliance under the rules of the order, and had good reason to feel insecure.

[@johnconner9296]

Personally, I hope that if grogu chooses the saber that Luke still gives him the chainmail, but he says somthing before along the lines of, friendship is a wonderful thing my padawn, but remember, that the security of one never outweighs the security of the many

[@Chrisspru]

but remember: you can never sacrifice your way to peace. you can only minimize losses

[@HappyKat-wc4ld]

I just watched the episode and had the same thought. I'm almost positive the Luke I knew from the old EU books would have done exactly that. Give him the chain mail anyway if he picks the lightsaber. I think he would let Grogu see Mando too when the time is right.

[@Jiub_SN]

@@HappyKat-wc4ld he wouldn't. It isn't about his attachment, but about the mandalorian way. Groggy can not be both a Jedi and Dins brand of mandalorian

[@MCsCreations]

Thor, don't forget that Anakin only returned to the light because of his attachment to his son, Luke.

[@burakbeyy216]

His LOVE for his son brought him back to life, his attempt to control death was his undoing with Padme. He got OBSESSED with the fealing of loss after he lost his mother, he couldn't control the pain. He tried to prevent that pain from ever happening again, at ALL costs, even the lives of innocent children.

[@quigonlynn1]

It's always seemed clear to me that a lot of Jedi get pretty attached to the padawans that they train. I mean they basically raise them through their teenage years to adulthood so it's understandable really.

[@TheDawnofVanlife]

Yup, it's pretty much a pseudo-parental relationship.

[@UToobUsername01]

@@TheDawnofVanlife That is unless you are Rey who just automatically knows everything and doesn't need any trainer because she can't be man-splained. The Force doesn't give a shit. It just lets her be super duper awesome because that's what the writers say. LOL

[@cristagalli96]

They don't burn down the galaxy when they die though. In TCW, Kit Fisto's former padawan dies in front of him and he mourns but moves on. That doesn't mean he didn't love his padawan any less, just that he knows the larger galaxy is in need and he can't lose his mind with his grief.

[@6runger]

Dude, I love your channel and the thought you put into your "rambling" Star Wars discussions. I share a lot of the ideas you have regarding the Jedi and their ways. And I see that some people in the SW fandom are a bit unhappy with Luke's test, but I think they are failing to see what you just pointed out. This test is, indeed, improving the Jedi. And not to bash on anybody, but I was just listening to another video from the biggest Star Wars youtuber (I guess you know who), and I just can't make it through his videos anymore. They lack the depth I find in your channel. Anyway, keep it up!

[@UToobUsername01]

The reason for that is older more mature star wars fans are not trying to judge characters based on the morals and values we have in the real world. We judge them based on what they star wars universe itself says about morals. Most of the characters in Star Wars with codes follow the codes with the interest of serving a higher purpose. The Force is essentially the universes God and there are some corrupt jedi and pure evil dark sith. What happens is when liberals judge the Jedi they mistake corrupt jedi who do NOT follow the codes, with people who are pure and DO follow the codes and are not hypocrites. And then when the liberal critic sees one Jedi that fails to follow the code, they assume that the laws, codes and values of the Jedi themselves are evil since some jedi are corrupt and can't follow them. Then they say, "see the sith must be good guys because they don't care about morals and laws and so are not hypocrites like the Jedi. So now we must destroy the Jedi as the good guys and start praising the Sith" The reason for this is many liberals actually do NOT believe in rules in their own personal lives (they are probably anti-religion and don't understand that people choose to be spiritual and it's not forced on people) and that affects their understanding of the Star Wars lore. They feel that Jedi are the representation of conservatives and dogmatic christians. No. They are like cops and judges. No different to what you get when you go into court and have to follow the laws there. To liberals that makes Jedi annoying and dogmatic people to care about principles. But the purpose of knioghts is they must follow the codes. This is why there is a lot of youtube channels trying to paint Jedi as bad just because there are a few corrupt ones that didn't actually follow their own laws perfectly. It's as if they want a Sith empire to be seen as the good guys because it matches their worldview. lol But we have to be careful because the author behind the story is obviously coming from the perspective that light = good, dark = bad, and warriors of light that get corrupted by dark are no longer good. There is no middle ground. You can't say you are a good guy and not follow the light side. You are either dark or light. That is what the original trilogy says.

[@jenniferlapos9542]

@@UToobUsername01 👍

[@chileanyways196]

Big talk about Love & Attachment in the comments today. Everything you wanted to know about these two types of relationships can be found in the opposite ways Kanan & Maul approach Ezra about becoming an apprentice. Ezra: “What do you want?” Kanan: “To offer you a choice. You can keep the lightsaber you stole, let it become just another dusty souvenir. Or you can give it back and come with us, come with me, and be trained in the ways of the Force. You can learn what it truly means to be a Jedi.”Kanan offers Ezra a choice. The choice is offered regardless of Kanan’s doubt about his own worth or fitness to train him or what it will cost him to become a Jedi again. The choice Kanan offers is based on what is best for Ezra. He recognizes Ezra’s need for a home, a family, and a teacher. And he gives Ezra all of the information and allows him to choose. Maul, on the other hand, recruits Ezra because of what he needs from him. He needs Ezra to open the doors on Malachor, and he needs him to retrieve the Sith Holocron. Maul manipulates Ezra mentally and emotionally from Malachor onward so that Ezra will make any decision he wants him to make. In addition, Maul never tells Ezra the full truth about whatever he wants from him. This removes Ezra’s ability to make truly informed choices. Finally, Maul wants Ezra to become his apprentice to solve his own loneliness and to give him a purpose. Maul is obsessed with Ezra, desiring this relationship of master and student because of the ways in which it will serve his own needs, regardless of what it costs Ezra or even if that’s what Ezra wants as well. THAT is the difference between love and attachment.

[@robynfuller3988]

Well said! This is why I don't have a problem with Luke offering the choice to Grogu- it's about being open and letting Grogu make his *own* decision. It's not the manipulation of Maul, it's Luke trying to do what's best for Grogu.

[@TheRibottoStudios]

People don't want the rule changed _just_ because of Anakin Skywalker. There are multiple instances where attachment and love save the galaxy or a certain character. It was Kanan Jarrus' attachment and love for his friends that made him make the ultimate sacrifice to save their lives. It was Anakin's attachment to Ahsoka that saved her from being put to death when not even the Order would bat for her. It was Anakin's attachment to Luke that saved his life from Palpatine when the Sith was cooking Luke with lightning. It was Luke's attachment to his father that saved his own life and the galaxy. His father, ANAKIN not his father DARTH VADER. "I am a Jedi like my father before me." cements this. He didn't just stop attacking Vader because he realized he would become like him-he was realizing that he'd be killing his own father. It was Ahsoka's attachment to Rex that saved both their lives during Order 66. It was Rey's attachment to her friends that would keep her going, keep her fighting. And I wouldn't be surprised if it would be Grogu's attachment to Din Djarin that would save Grogu from certain death when Kylo Ren would attack and murder the Jedi school. There is a difference in loving someone, possessing someone, and being attached to someone. You can love someone without possessing them, possessing someone isn't loving them, it's owning them. You can be attached to someone without loving them. What Anakin's downfall was, wasn't LOVE or him being POSSESSIVE of people, or attachment. It was FEAR of LOSS. This was incredibly expanded upon in Clone Wars. I can relate to Anakin. But in the opposite direction-I don't do anything in my power to keep people close to me, I in fact keep myself at arm's length from even family, because I know one day, they will leave. People move, people die, they stab you in the back. I figured, once upon a time, that it was just better to not have those emotions, to not have to go through that pain of losing someone. Even my own family. So I just kinda closed myself off from everyone. So, I can safely say through my own experience that no attachment, it's....not a life I'd want to live. I'm actually working to ensure I don't have any regrets, that I want memories to look back on, be able to say "Yeah I did so many things with friends, and was so close with my family." Anakin was right. How can the Jedi be compassionate, be peacekeepers, which is what they were originally, if they aren't taught to cherish and essentially LOVE all life? To value life? To see what it is they were fighting to restore? How can you protect life, without being taught what it means to cherish that which you are meant to protect in the first place?

[@BC08]

Good post

[@chileanyways196]

Anakin Skywalker’s story is one of how he was so afraid to live without people-and this is what Star Wars and the Jedi mean by attachment, specifically about how it’s about what you feel, that you want to keep them against literally any obstacle, no matter how galaxy-ruining that obstacle might be-that he was so unwilling to choose, that he fell to the dark side and lost everything. He helped burn down the galaxy because he was attached to things, because he couldn’t let go. That is literally the story of Anakin Skywalker!! He was so afraid to let go of people and his feelings that he fell into the dark!! George Lucas has said that that letting go is a central theme of his movies! So, to have Luke Skywalker, the son of Anakin Skywalker, the man who fell to the dark side because he couldn’t let go of his desperate fears that he would lose people, look at Grogu and understand that he’s facing a similar situation? To have Luke Skywalker, who understands what it means to struggle with your feelings, that he made mistakes in this in the past as well, that he left his training early (and Lucas has been explicit about how that was a mistake) because of his fears for his friends, look at Grogu and understand he’s facing similar feelings? It hits hard. Luke Skywalker, who had compassion for the monster that was his father, who saw the good in him when so many struggled to still see it, who understands what the dark side does to a person, who knows that it meant he never got to truly know his father because it torn Anakin to pieces, he looks at Grogu and doesn’t want that to happen again. Anakin Skywalker refused to choose and the galaxy suffered for it because it was too hard for him. To have his son helping another through the same thing, trying to help Grogu make a better choice, that really hit me hard. And like you said Kanan and Ezra demonstrate this really well

[@eagleeyeenterprises4181]

Very well said

[@ISD_Chimaera]

Anakin says that the Jedi are encouraged to love all life unconditionally. But they have to learn to let things that they love go when necessary (a lesson we all have to learn eventually, as you pointed out). The most important thing to a Jedi can't be one single person. In the case of the Jedi, possessive attachment is forbidden. And I think when Jedi say attachment is forbidden, they are describing attachments that include the fear of loss. I think people just get hung up on the words used to describe it. I agree with most of your points, I just think you are seeing the word attachment as something different than what the Jedi are describing it as. For example, I would describe Luke's actions in Return of the Jedi as showing unconditional love towards his father rather than attachment. He is unwilling to kill him because he loves him unconditionally, despite everything. But there is certainly a fine line here that often depends on the way you interpret the characters actions in different situations.

[@bleyd__]

But in their world there is Force and Jedi don't die when they become one with the force, so they don't fear death. Also they are supposed to be peacekeepers around the world, helping and protecting others. They need their mind clean and not judge with heart but with brain (force). In our world we don't know if there's anything after death, we are not Knights or peacekeepers, we are ordinary human beings, just like some inhabitants of planets - they are living normal life with full atttachment, not Jedi. They are serving a higher purpose.

[@captainvader921]

Wow. You even addressed the idea that Grogu could have picked both, and I saw a couple comments saying that in the last video. Me personally, I want him to choose the lightsaber, because I feel like if he chose the armor, then that moment at the end of The Mandalorian Season 2 will feel less effective, cuz then it'd suddenly be like "oh he'll say goodbye, but only for a week or so." I do think there are workarounds as to how he could survive the Sequel Trilogy. And yes, Luke does mention that Ben Solo was his first student, but come on, it's not like that would have been the first quote that got contradicted due to background information being revealed *cough* Leia somehow remembers her mom *cough*

[@paul46403]

That made me wonder if his mother was force sensitive until they made RotS.

[@MedalionDS9]

The reason for Anakin's fall was a combination of things... but not having an Attachment was not the direct cause of it per se... Anakin felt he was being held back from his full potential, not feeling fully respected, and not allowed to have an attachment but to keep it secret, but in the end his confidante in Palpatine used that to his advantage to manipulate Anakin to turn to the Dark Side. Anakin didn't turn naturally to the Dark Side... he was manipulated . That is the fear... the Jedi have enemies, and those enemies could use their Attachments against the Jedi to hurt/manipulate them.

[@definitelyarealperson248]

i imagine it’s like grief. Everyone deals with it differently. Anakin had attachments and fell to the dark side. But other jedi (e.g. kanan) had attachments and didn’t. So i feel jedi should be given a choice. Ezra almost fell to the dark side due to his attachments but ultimately didn’t

[@FriendlyDarkwraith]

You're missing out on a big part of Anakin's story, which is how the death of his mother began his path to the Dark Side, and how that death was almost entirely the fault of the Jedi for not allowing him to save her earlier. That's why he refused to let the same thing happen to Padme when he started having premonitions of her death. It'd already happened once due to the Jedi's rejection of attachments.

[@milanzelich585]

I think to that moment when Gandalf is talking to Pippin in Minas Tirith, " Death is just another path, one that we all must take". Which mimics our human experience, therefore, that quote hits really hard. So, it makes sense that the old Jedi Order's distorted form of detachment would lead to their downfall - because, in our human experience, that is not how detachment is meant to be practiced. Every religion across the globe from Hinduism to Christianity understands detachment isn't the absence of love for people, careers, experiences, etc, but it is being able to let those things go when it is time. I'm paraphrasing here, but my therapist said, "you don't have to be alone, but you have to be good on your own. Before you can be a brother, son, friend, boyfriend, you have to be yourself. Such that if all those titles left, you would still have you.".

[@LeedleLeePatrick]

A huge part of Luke's journey was learning how his attachments can be used against him. In Empire, Vader uses Luke's friends to lure him into a trap. Even with his friends saved in that moment, the consequences if Luke had died or been turned to the dark side could have been far worse. In Jedi, Vader provokes Luke into a rage by threatening to turn Leia, which brings him even closer to turning than he had on Cloud City. It's in that moment when he chops off Vader's hand that he realizes, among other things, just how much his love for his friends, and especially his fear for their safety, could be used against him. Which is why his next choice is to let go of his fear, puts his life in Vader's hands, and have such faith in his father that it gives him the strength to be a hero again. By showing his willingness to sacrifice himself, Luke almost transfers his attachments onto Vader, saying "everything that I hold dear is in your hands" in a way. All that considered, it seems like a natural progression of character for Luke to understand both the importance and the danger of attachments. As much as Luke loved his friends, he had to be willing to let go of them, and everything he hoped and fought for, to triumph over evil.

[@jonathangubbrud8748]

An interesting point to me: anakin never considered what padme would have wanted. Padme would have wanted him to make the choice for the greater good. If he really loved her vs just being selfish I think he might have considered what she would want him to do in his position

[@timothymooneyham829]

Attachments is what saved Luke from being killed by the Emperor with Vader living his son more than himself.

[@robertanderson5092]

Vader's attachment to his son brought the downfall of the benevolent empire that was trying to bring peace to the galaxy.

[@Jeroogalo]

People often say that Luke should have learned about how wrong the Jedi were and went down another path because his attachment to Vader saved him. But Luke's attachment to Vader is not what saved him. He wasn't attached to Vader like Grogu is to Mando. It was his compassion for his father that saved him. Possessive attachments are and have always been inappropriate for a Jedi, but compassion is essential to a Jedi's life. When did saying the Jedi were wrong (in their ideology) become a factual statement anyway? The Jedi Code/teachings weren't the problem. Following them will produce ideal Jedi. The problem was the Order as a whole WASN'T following their own teachings well enough, especially Anakin. And while the Order continued to shift away from their core ideals, Qui Gon continued to focus on the here and now, and following the will of the Force, which put him as the best one to guide the Chosen One, who was already too old to avoid early attachments. And when Qui Gon tragically died, that left Anakin with Obi Wan who, though we love him, was not Qui Gon. Obi Wan was the perfect Jedi of his era, but not the fundamentally best example of a Jedi. The two best examples of that are Qui Gon and Siege of Mandalore and beyond Ahsoka. You can remain detached from possessive and selfish love, while maintaining a general compassion for all people. You must, or else you open yourself up to greed, which leads to the dark side. I'll also add that fortunately, Obi Wan and Yoda both learned these things in the end, which enabled them to receive the great gift of immortality

[@ToastyMuppet]

Something I thought you would mentioned and had at some point. Is more that it was the fact that Anakin had to keep his marriage secret that Palps was able to manipulate him so well. If they were out on the open then there would be no shadows for him to work from

[@rebekahwilliams5610]

I think there are pros and cons to both! I know SW seem to have no problem with over writing the comics but the rise of kylo ten comic seems to suggest Ben stays quiet close to his parents and visits them while training so I was surprised when Luke told Grogu to pick. I thought he would have tried to teach his students a happy medium, even if it was so he could maintain a relationship with his friends without seeming hypocritical. I’ve always felt if Anakin could have been open about Padme he’s have turned to the Jedi (or at least Obi-Wan) for help instead of daddy Sheev.

[@Staffaffan]

The thing is, Anakin wasn’t just any Jedi. He was the chosen one. That has to count for something

[@devildolphin2102]

My favorite Star Wars character is Cade Skywalker. He was such a Similar Mirror to Darth Vader. He watched his family get taken from him and fell down Sadness, Shame and Despair. He was to Become the Reincarnation of Darth Vader, of Darth Caedus. He brought death and Violence to those who wronged him, and Drowned his emotions in death sticks. But he still has love. Love to Bantha, The Mynock… To Blue. When he finally Embraced his love and Accepted it. When he was finally honest and Accepted his Love for Blue….. He was saved he became a Jedi and Defied Fate, the Dark Side and his Destiny. Cade Skywalker is the Example of the Power of Attachment and why Jedi need it.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

Couldn't agree more.

[@roberthughes5577]

What went most wrong for Anakin was that Palpatine caused his nightmares of losing Padme. And I think this shows why the Jedi avoid attachments, because the Sith will exploit those attachments.

[@UToobUsername01]

The key to understanding the no attachments rule is that it can have negative and positive effects. The Jedi are instructed to try to love everyone's life equally not play favourites. This can best be illustrated with an example of two houses being on fire and one of them is your best friend and the other is a stranger who you don't know but is very important to the future of mankind in the future because of all the events he will be involved in that bring about peace. You could say the friend is personally to you more important to save by going into his house and rescuing him, however to the galaxy's perspective, perhaps the VIP is more important because his destiny is one that may guard from a lot of pain and suffering in the future. You as a jedi may only have time to save one person and your decision should NOT be influenced by personal gain but rather on logic over which is more important: a) saving your best friend who you play chess with on the weekends because it brings you personal pleasure to do this.....or b) do what a knight would do and follow the mission which will save millions of people on millions of planets that rely upon you to make that tough decision to put other people's lives ahead of your own. It does not mean attachments are bad but that your decision must never be based on what you selfishly gained by abandoning your mission and doing whatever you FEEL is better. It should be based on what IS better. Knights must love everyone's lives equally. So if you abandon your friend, that isn't because you WANT to abandon them, but more that you want to SAVE millions of others by rescuing the random stranger whose destiny shapes the future for the better and saves many people that is beyond your vision of the universe because you won't feel its effects due to your short lifespan. When you become a knight you are serving something higher than yourself. Basically the God of the star wars universe which has a Will of its own that is beyond our own understanding but which is generally able to select or choose a savior based not on man's judgement but its OWN judgement. The will of the force chose an impulsive boy who was enslaved by others to experience enough pain that he would deliberately obey his feelings over his knightly duty just so it could PROVE to the Sith that love can defeat hatred. Maul and Paltpatine tried to manipulate Anakin to embrace hatred and crave more power to destroy his enemies. However when Anakin realised he has a son it changed the game and allowed him to see the positive effect of breaking the knightly codes and LOVE was used to cancel the hatred for Jedi who he blames caused the loss of his girlfriend. Without breaking the code you can't have the positive effect to demonstrate to the dark side that LOVE is superior to HATRED and teach the galaxy that it's ok to break the codes if the spirit behind your actions is unselfish. (Luke chose not to give into hatred and Darth Vader at the last moment chose not to give into hatred but instead show mercy to his son and embrace love behind his actions. If the motive behind your actions is unselfish, then you get a pass to break the codes. Why? because you are within the will of the force which is beyond man's own laws and codes and ethical standards. Since the Force created the powers that the jedi have. It's like God letting Jesus act as sacrifice for man's sin despite not earning it. Man received it as a gift not as a payment for hard work and obedience. It's like a boy receiving christmas present or a present for his birthday. It's out of love not transactional. Prior to that in the old testament all contracts between man and god were business transactions. ie "you do this and you get this blessing." "You obey this order and your will gain this thing." But the poor people have nothing so God gave them a free gift of life (no need to pay for your sins with blood sacrifices since Jesus did it for you) just like mothers and fathers giving free gifts to their children. The spirit BEHIND the action is love, and it's not motivated by hatred for laws. It's the positive effect of having attachments despite their ALSO being negative effects when judging crimes committed by people you love and you being biased and making decisions that will taint your logical and rational thinking. So the force brought balance by defeating the emotions of hatred with emotions of love. This created enough of a block to the empire that it had to collapse because the Sith hoped to exploit Anakin's impulsive behavior to enslave him to his emotion of hatred only. That is the same hatred that caused him to slaughter little kids. But the force needed his emotional and impulsive behavior to reconsider wanting power and turn it towards love for his family! That is the balance of the Chosen One bringing things back to peace instead of destruction and war motived by hatred and fear of loss of loved ones. We have to look at the force from different perspectives to get the overall message. The codes of knights are superceded by the Will of the Force which is the God of the Star Wars universe. It has certain people play the roles of actors in a play, and those people are chosen to fulfill a destiny which the Force has scripted for them to play whether they LIKE it or not because the Will of the Force commands events to play out which then forms the "prophecy of the Chosen One". If the Force cannot create events leading up to fulfilment of prophecy then people wil stop believing in the God and then chaos ensues. It's the belief in a higher power watching over people to protect them from Chaos, that fuels them to live on. Without that belief they will turn into savages who juist act on impulsive desires and this causes peaceful solutions to things to crumble and fracture. Everyone benefits from peace because people can live in peaceful galaxy better than one constantly at war. However to gain peace you must go to war if evil people plan to remove your freedoms. That is the purpose of knights to defend those freedoms. Without the knights then people who hate fighting are forced to fight against their own will. The knights are heroes for giving up personal freedoms as a sacrifice to obtain galaxy wide peace for others. So the rules and codes for battle-monks are necessary to ensure order. Does this mean they can't have fun? No they can bend the rules a bit, but overall the purpose for the rules is to guide them to not be weak spiritually and easy prey to temptations that the evil guys can exploit by bribing, blackmail and death threats which normal people like you and me will give into. A true spiritually pure warrior is beyond being manipulated by emotions and so the Sith will lose if a Knight sticks to his codes. The Chosen One is a rare exceptions since the Will of the Force is to fulfill the prophecy and show to the Sith that "Love beats Hatred". The Sith can only succeed if people stop doing acts of love for their people and focus only on Hatred alone. If people have balanced perspective then the knights will have their support with funding and political power from the people. Without the balance, the evil guys can return again and manipulate the crowds of people with emotional speeches and tricks of the minds that cult leaders often use to mislead their followers.

[@garym6315]

It's really interesting how fans have been fixating on this aspect of the last episode, and rightly so since the one great thing the Prequel era gave us was ethical and moral debates. I'm hoping that this is something the writers themselves are aware of and didnt just write Luke without even considering this angle. Ideally I'd love to see a spinoff Skywalker show in which he wrestles with old vs new Jedi code of conduct.

[@joshbourne9679]

Also we don’t know that it’s just “one Jedi” it could be many but Anakin may have just been the most significant in the history. I would bet money that many Jedi before him left the Jedi order because of the rules set in place.

[@TheDawnofVanlife]

There's a difference between leaving because you want to do something like get married and instead of just leaving and getting married like you want, doing what Anakin did and murdering all the kids in the temple. I 100% believed that people left the order at times and that it was mostly ok to choose a different path at some point. The only thing is that because of the structure back then these kids grew up as only knowing one way of life. Like being a force sensitive town merchant or farmer or something wasn't something that really would seem like an option and, if anything, feel like a waste of potential. As we saw with Ahsoka, then it becomes 'now that I've left, what do I do'. Once you were discovered as a baby force sensitive and raised in the ways of the Jedi, what did you do with yourself when literally what you've been told you must do as an adult is no longer an option because you want this other thing as well? So I can see people rarely leaving under this situation, but I am sure someone did in the long history of the Jedi. I am also sure secret love affairs happened before Anakin/Padme especially for prepubescent and teen Jedi But leaving because you want something else more and turning on the order and destroying it is two different things.

[@KalKratos]

If attachments were allowed, Anakin might have been able to save his mom. Instead of Obi-Wan dismissing his dreams of his mother, he would help Anakin meditate on these dreams and realize his mom is in trouble. His mom could have been saved. Or alternatively, with Obi-Wan's help, he could have freed Anakin's mom a short while after TPM. The problem is that they treat romantic relationships as a problem, while friendships are fine. Even though we've seen how friendships have their own drawbacks to the temptation. Take a look at Ahsoka. She has struggled with the meaning of friendships vs the Jedi detachment. The way I see it, they need to adopt a similar philosophy to the Air Nomads of Avatar. The Air Nomads are all monks, yet they practice friendships and romantic relationships. I think this all goes back to Yoda's lesson to Anakin in RotS. Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose. The problem wasn't his romantic relationship with Padme. It was his fear of losing her.

[@TheDawnofVanlife]

Yes, thank you for saying this. Anakin's attachment to Padme wasn't harmful so much as his EXTREME FEAR of losing her probably a fear increased because of HOW he lost his mom. I think how the Jedi handled Anakin's love for his mother was way more detrimental in the long term then the whole Padme situation. I think his reaction to the threat to Padme was a product of that.

[@AncestorEmpire1]

I miss GM Luke’s expanded universe Jedi order. They learned so much from the shortcomings of the clone wars Jedi order. Especially in the attachment category.

[@OrthoLou]

Did they let go of that teaching? I never read any of the EU stuff but I know Luke does get married to another Jedi.

[@sand4273]

I mean, that could still be the case in canon. We just don’t have enough stories yet. Even with the sequels, we could still see something similar before it all goes to crap.

[@devildolphin2102]

Agreed my favorite story was Cade Skywalker. He was such a Similar Mirror to Darth Vader. He watched his family get taken from him and fell down Sadness, Shame and Despair. He was to Become the Reincarnation of Darth Vader, of Darth Caedus. But he still has love. Love to Bantha, The Mynock… To Blue. When he finally Embraced his love and Accepted it. He was saved he became a Jedi and Defied Fate, the Dark Side and his Destiny. Cade Skywalker is the Example of the Power of Attachment and why Jedi need it.

[@paul46403]

@@devildolphin2102 that was Jacen Solo who became Darth Caedus. To your point you're absolutely correct in that statement. Unless this you speak of is after Fate of the Jedi series.

[@devildolphin2102]

@@paul46403 No I mean Every generation has some type of Evil Skywalker. Cade Was Supposed to become the Next Vader/Caedus. Cade was supposed to walk the Same path as Jacen hell in the Legacy Comics he Did walk the same path as Both Anakin and Jacen. but was saved at the last moment by Blue.

[@DustinMTaylor]

"Always remember, your focus determines your reality" If the focus of your relationships with others is based on YOU, that is selfish. That leads to fear, anger, hate, suffering. It leads to thoughts like "what do I get out of this relationship?" It essentially is treating others as objects, as a mere means to your own arbitrary ends. It's not actually loving them for them, it's loving them for you. But if the focus of your relationship with others is based on THEM, that is selfless. It leads to love, compassion, empathy. It leads to thoughts like "what is best for them?" and "what can I do to better serve them?" This is actual love; not viewing the person as an object to be desired, but a person to be valued. It is love for love's own sake, not yours. What turned Anakin to the dark side was not his love for Padme, because he didn't REALLY love Padme, at least, not in the right way. He confused true, selfless love with selfish desire. His focus was on himself--what HE would have to do if he had to live without her, how HE would feel, etc.--not on Padme. By definition, that isn't love. His focus was on himself, and that determined his reality of turning to the dark side. Attachments then, should not just be allowed, but ENCOURAGED for the Jedi. I suspect the rule was put in place because it can be hard to distinguish between the two ways to focus on your relationships/attachments. But isn't that just demonstrating a lack of faith in the individual Jedi, thinking they won't be able to deliberate appropriately? Isn't establishing that rule really just acting out of fear in a sense?

[@devildolphin2102]

Attachment can lead to death, destruction, and the dark side. But it can tempt but not Lead. The greatest Example of Love saving someone, Cade Skywalker was destined to fall the dark side. To become Sith. But his love for Blue and Embracing it Saved him. Allowed him to rise as a Jedi and kill Fromer Jedi Asharrd Hett “Darth Krayt” But Attachment can save Anyone. It saved Anakin one of the most evil men in the Galaxy. Fear can lead to Hate, but if you Understand your fear and overcome it Courage can fill you to protect and Save all those Attachments and loved ones. Mara Jade, Leia, Han, Wedge, Chewie all saved Luke from falling down the dark path. And Love and attachment saved Mara Jade from her slavery to Palpatine. Attachment is right and Luke should embrace it.

[@shugaroony]

Well said Thor, I agree with everything in your vid here. I'm sick to death speaking about this subject to those on the SW sub-reddit who think the no-attachment rule is 'Jedi dogma' and somehow wrong; it is intended to protect the Jedi from themselves and the rest of the galaxy for that matter. You can't have your cake and eat it; Anakin was selfish in his choices and it ended up ripping the galaxy in two.

[@8DarthGhost8]

Exactly my thoughts. Luke never said Grogu can't love anyone or anything like that, he's saying that as a JEDI you have a lot of power and therefore a lot of responsibility to protect those that can't protect themselves. Having attachments CAN lead to fear and fear leads to what? That's what Luke is essentially teaching here. He's giving Grogu a choice where the old Jedi never even considered a choice.

[@Good_Emperor]

Some jedi in the old order may have preferred a life "without attachments" but they weren't really given a choice. And honestly the way the jedi code and it's ban on attachments is portrayed it makes it very easy to conclude all personal attachments are a sin. There aren't any exceptions, qualifiers, or special rules to allow certain attachments explicitly stated even though if any exceptions should have been made it would have been for the Jedi's version of the Messiah.

[@UToobUsername01]

No you can simply tell the jedi you intend to use the powers for evil as a way to get kicked out of the club. So don't be dumb. Ahsoka actually chose not to join the Jedi after she lost trust in the corrupt Jedi Council. A lot of you bad critics keep saying it's a cult because they are taken out of their will to serve. Nope. You have choice. It's just like if you get invited to a party. You can either reject or accept the invitation. If you reject it, nobody is going to call the cops and arrest you for not appearing. If you didn't have a choice why didn't Qui Gon just kidnap Anakin as a kid rather than asking? He could have just taken Anakin from Shmi without telling her anything. I have seen arguments online that say "Jedi are a cult". These idiots never watched the Clone War cartoon where Ahsoka just leaves after she decides shes had enough.

[@ISD_Chimaera]

I think the importance is in the difference between possessive attachment and the "unconditional love" encouraged by the Jedi. And I would argue the latter is what Luke shows towards his Father in Return of the Jedi. It is even possible that Luke lets go of his attachments to Leia and his friends in that moment because he loves Anakin unconditionally and will not kill him despite the threat he poses to them.

[@MikulOnIce85]

I can distinctly hear what sounds like frustration in your voice when it comes to explaining that Luke is giving grogu the choice in what he wants at 17:29 and I really like that.

[@CDKohmy]

In the BoBF episode, Mando points out that sacrificing attachments is the opposite of loyalty and solidarity. With the selfish-selfless dichotomy, they are just different forms of selflessness. A Mando-jedi should be the perfect balance.

[@Jiub_SN]

A mando Jedi is impossible for a lot of reasons, but for some reason that fanfictiony bullshit sounds possible under disney

[@cosminainspira]

I'm always of the belief that everyone definitely needs to have balance in their lives, which always the core theme and lessons of Star Wars, which is why I'll always enjoy it, though the sequels were a mixed bag to a disappointment for me. I'd also like to add a bit to the discussion, especially the Jedi Order's philosophy of no attachments and the Spider-Man quote, from another of my favorite series Disney' '90s animated show called Gargoyles. Anakin tells Padme in AOTC that Jedi are encouraged to love through compassion, and I'm remembering this quote from Gargoyles, "If love is about growing closer, it's also about letting go." Also to paraphrase a song, only know you love them when you let them go. Being a complex character Anakin had trouble learning to let go, and as Jedi philosophy is based greatly on Far Eastern philosophies such as Wu Wei, Tao, Zen, and the like he struggled to learn that balance between his own desires and the greater good for the galaxy. To make my argument short, it's okay to have personal wants and desires, just be aware of them and don't let them define or possess who one is. I know it's a complex discuss about what or why Anakin fell to the Dark Side, but I want to throw in my 2 cents. Perhaps another way to put it is that the 'no attachments' rule for Luke's possible new order is for it to be 'reinterpreted' or 'redefined', looked at in a different way from the Old Jedi Order, even if the Mando/Faloniverse gives fans something closer to the old EU, if that's what fans want. I know this long, but I wanted to give my thoughts. I also have a weird thought about the sequels that may have made them better. What if Rey and Kylo's roles were reversed, as in Kylo Ren was the son or grandson, or just claimed to be, a descendent of Palpatine and Rey really was Luke's daughter, or still Leia and Han's daughter? I know there will be those that will argue that would never happen with Palapatine having kids with anyone, but kinda already happened in Legends, as well as the cloning thing, which I was more or less okay with TROS. Anyway, I apologize this is so long, but thank you for reading and I look forward to more videos. :)

[@Raleyg]

I think it would be interesting to explore the opposite problem. What if there was a Jedi who was rather introverted, calm and rational, who struggled with forming relationships with other people, and who therefore had an easier time living without attachments, but also struggled with that other part of being a Jedi. Being compassionate

[@brucewayne8252]

Bro , what an amazing video . I agree with a lot of your points . I think there must be some sort of middle ground for this discussion . For example one can say that the Jedi remained strong when they forbade themselves from attachment all those years , and some may say that that is what made them weak , vunerable , hated , and lose their way .Now that I think of it , different people go through different events , have unique personalities , and vary in emotion . What works for one won't necessarily work for the other . Maybe what can be done is for each individual to carve their own path and find their own balance depending on the will of the force . Not one uniform path for everyone . What is so beautiful about your video and Star Wars in general is the philosophical discussions we can have . People can see things from many different angles and in this video I witnessed this . I also agree with the fact that the sequels should have been about this topic .

[@Babyboss65]

The failure of the old Order wasn't the no attachment rule, it was that they forgot to be compassionate. I think a lot of people fundamentally misunderstand this difference. Luke's New Jedi Order in the old EU allowed Jedi to get married, yes, but that's not the same as allowing attachments.

[@gustavogirotto]

What a fantastic reflection on this theme. Most impressive!

[@theraindog9141]

Thank you for highlighting that Luke has given Grogu the freedom to choose his path. That's a huge departure from Clone Wars era Jedi. I sense a presence I've not felt since... “It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.” ... -Kreia

[@NightmareTroubador]

It all comes down to how you define attachments. For most people, they think attachments=love, or any kind of relationship. But that's not what it means in Star Wars. Attachment is defined a possessive and self-centered type of relationship to someone. The inability to let them go, whether they've passed on or need to leave you for one reason or another i.e. Grogu going to train with Luke or Ahoska wanting time to reassess where stands and how she feels. This is why Anakin fell. Because his relationships were attachments. It was all about how Padme, Ahsoka or Obi-Wan made him feel. Even Shmi got this treatment "My love for you is tainted by what should happen if I let go." -Anakin in the Mortis Arc to the Shmi illusion. "Just help me save Padme's life. I can't live without her." -Anakin to Sidious ROTS. Even as Vader, decades later, he is still trying to bring back Padme even if that means ripping open the Force itself. Din is a good non-Force User example of being able to let go at the end of Season 2. But this relationship could become like attachment, which is why Ahsoka asks "Are you doing this for Grogu or are you doing this for yourself?" Anakin himself understands this. He explains it in Episode 2 to Padme. He explains it to Rex, as they go searching for Echo, that he has to be prepared to accept Echo is truly gone. Ezra learns this lesson in the World Between Worlds and again when seeing the vision of his parents in the presence of Sidious. He even experiences the dangers of attachment. He leans heavy into the Dark Side to gain any shred of power to protect his friends out of guilt and self-blame that he feels. He treats them like objects he has to control, doesn't trust them to make the right decisions. Which causes a lot of interpersonal conflict. Kanan shows us the difference between love and attachment, when he puts Ezra in charge of the mission to rescue Hera ("I would, but I can think clearly because of my feelings for her.) Obi-Wan says the same at the Siege of Manadlore when Bo-Katan yells at him (But I can't allow my feelings to cloud my judgement). So how does this relate to Grogu? Luke says he's concerned Grogu's heart isn't in it. The Jedi life isn't something you can do half-heartedly. Which is why Luke is presenting him with the choice in the form of two objects. He's also doing it now because if down the road he decides the Jedi life isn't for him, Din maybe long gone. If he decides he wants a life with Din that's fine. He can take the armor and leave. But if he wants to be a Jedi, he has to let go of Din, be willing to accept that he may not get the chance to see Din again. If he doesn't learn to let go, his attachment to Din may cause the same issues Ezra and Anakin faced. The reason I think so many have this disconnect with Luke in this episode is Filoni has chosen to follow Lucas' idea of attachment. Whereas in the majority of Legends, writers just played in the Star Wars sandbox as they wished. Not saying these stories are bad, many of them I love and I think some echo Lucas' themes. Yet Lucas' has said the EU is separate from his story. And I don't think they fully realize what that means and that this Buddhist concept of attachment has always been in Star Wars. He may have not always portrayed it clearly or been clunky about it in the films but it's still there. Which is why personally, I don't see Luke as being OOC here. He's just trying to make sure Grogu doesn't fall into the trap his father did, about wanting to have the best of both worlds.

[@patriciafenwick5846]

You make a good point at the end. I also thought that Luke was giving him the freedom to choose, when he hadn't really been given that choice when Yoda and Ben were trying to persuade him to stay in TESB, before he rushed off to help his friends.

[@stevenellard1978]

I think the argument with attachments was that had the jedi been more open to it anakins peers would’ve helped him more rather than just tell him he had to accept padme dying. That way he probably wouldn’t have looked outside the jedi order for help

[@jivvy8664]

I think what a lot of us are also forgetting is that at this point in the story, Luke has only been a Jedi for somewhere around 10 years? Technically, he has had less training than even Grogu in the ways of the Jedi so we shouldn’t be expecting too much, as he’s not the Jedi Master we imagine him to be just yet. He’s still got a lot to figure out and this is also his journey to become a Jedi master.

[@AndrewMurrayMurnut]

When it comes to Grogu, it's a false choice. He can choose both. Luke is forcing a choice which is unnatural. Grogu doesn't want to be a Jedi. How can Luke not sense the reluctance? You have to want it. Does Grogu really want it? I would say no.

[@TheTenzen12]

It's literaly impossible. Both philosophically and practically.

[@AndrewMurrayMurnut]

@@TheTenzen12 Luke overcame the empire with help from his friends. A strong attachment to his friends. How could he have possibly have forgotten? Grogu walk away

[@TheTenzen12]

@@AndrewMurrayMurnut I know that. That's completely unrelated though.

[@Babyboss65]

@@AndrewMurrayMurnut He wouldn't have needed to have an attachment to them though. That attachment to his friends almost got him killed once on Bespin, and then almost made him fall to the dark side on the second Death Star. Attachment =/= friendship.

[@Bopek]

Love your channel dude, you always provide interesting insights for me to listen to whenever I have spare time :)

[@irishpotatothief531]

I think about Obi Wan and Anakin when it comes to handling attachments. Anakin, even before his choice, let his attachments be pressure points, he let them become sources of passion, rage, and anger. He let his love and loss of his mother drive him to genocide. He let his love for his padawan put himself and others in reckless danger. He let his love for his master lead him across the galaxy seeking revenge. He let his love for his mentor become the decapitation of an unarmed prisoner. The Jedi never taught Anakin to not love, in his own words, they were encouraged to love. Unconditionally, and without selfishness. And despite this, Anakin could never let go of his own desires, and routinely put others in danger, caused pain and suffering, and made choices that put the sanctity of life and the galaxy at risk to protect those he loved. Obi wan's path is very similar to Anakin's. Yet it's outcome couldn't be farther from the Chosen One's. Obi wan met and fell hard for a young women as a padawan. He nurtured the friendship and bond to her. With his master's help and his reassignment, Obi Wan chose to stay true to his vows and duties, and established healthy boundaries. And when her life was on the line, he did all he could to save it, without putting other's in harms way. When she was lost, he chose to mourn her, and stand for what she stood for, rather than give into rage and resentment. Obi wan, just like Anakin, became very close with his padawan, even considered him his brother. And yet when his brother laid waste to the Jedi temple, slaughtered children, and destroyed all they had fought for together for the past 3+ years, Obi Wan chose to stand against him. Although he could not bring himself to kill Anakin, he did his duty in fighting the monster that wore his friend's face. Obi Wan spent 10 more years than Anakin on Tatooine, and yet did not let that unforgiving planet destroy his will and his focus. Ultimately, a Jedi is a servant, not a slave. A Jedi serves the force, the light by releasing their personal desires. Their choice is to serve beyond themselves, and expect nothing in return. Choosing otherwise is not necessarily evil, but can be very dangerous when combined with Jedi power and training.

[@christopherbrown6523]

Let's not forget the Sith forbid attachment as well. It's true they will use your fears of lose to bring you to the Darkside, but once they have you, you'll be forced to cut all ties to your past. Often by killing the people you care about. This is required because love is a path to the Lightside. And while I agree that the Jedi willingly give up attachment, I would argue it isn't always happily. Take Obi-wan and Satine for instance. Obi-wan clearly had a deep sense of regret over he and Satine not being together, and he seemed to carry it for the rest of his life. I'd also like to point out Anakin's fear of losing Padme wasn't just born out of selfish desire, but also a fear of failing her like he failed his mother. Anakin carried a great sense of responsibility for the people around him. It's one of the reasons he always led his men from the front. He believed as a leader it was his responsibility to risk his own life for the sake of his men. I'd like to end this with a scene from the original 2003 Clone Wars. Anakin: Master, I haven't always been a patient student, but I have proven myself. I am a Jedi Knight. I won't fail you. Obi-wan: No, Anakin. Don't fail yourself.

[@bradwatkins7564]

Plus, I think it's noteworthy as Luke's warning about how to Grogu a brief time to "others" is a lifetime. I think that aspect is an important distinction.

[@Masteroogway40]

Well my 2 favorite jedi ever are yoda and Luke Skywalker in that order. It is legends now but yoda had attachments when he was young. He had a human friend that he was on a merchant ship with and they crashed and were both trained by the jedi master because they were both force sensitive. They were best friends. And Luke obviously had attachments and he acknowledged them, Worked through them and overcame them. And and he was better for it. He knew exactly who his father was. He knew his father was the 2nd worst villain in the Galaxy. And Luke I believe turned out better and more powerful for it. It would seem that attachments make you stronger if you can learn to overcome them and if you can't they destroy you.

[@dancooke8811]

Also Luke as a Jedi Knight in Return of The Jedi forms attachments to his friends which gives him strength to fight and overcome Vader. Also Anakin in Revenge of The Sith forms an attachment to Obi-Wan that helps him overcome Dooku during their fight...of course he also is stronger and faster and taps into The Dark Side but Dooku is a better lightsaber duellist and defeats Obi-Wan easily. Anakin's brotherly relationship with his former Master became genuine concern and fear for his life spurring him on and giving him extra strength.

[@thebrannoncannon6565]

The more I think about Grogu choosing the armor, the more I think it is the wrong choice. As Ahsoka says, no place is more safe for him than training with Luke. In the S2 finale, Luke says Grogu will not be safe until he masters his abilities. We saw what he could do this episode. While Luke points out that he is mostly remembering things, we can see how exhausted Grogu is after the training with the droid. If he goes back to Din, he’ll just put the Empire’s sights on them both. Who knows if Luke will be able to save them next time? While Luke is giving him a choice, maybe the lesson that is being invoked is something Grogu already realizes? That if he goes to Din now, he can’t protect him from those threats, let alone himself. I also think Luke giving him this choice isn’t about attachment vs no attachments. He says Grogu MAY never see the Mandalorian again. Not that he can never see Din again. Maybe it’s about Grogu’s recognizing his own fear of the unknown. He has to choose the best path for them both, even if it means they can’t be together all the time again. Ahsoka says in S2 that Grogu has much fear in him. Perhaps this is similar to how Luke realized that he was becoming more like Darth Vader. Grogu may realize that choosing the armor and essentially becoming a Mandalorian will only jeopardize the safety of them both. Din’s path is the way of the Mandalore, and Grogu’s path is the way of the Jedi. It would be so heartbreaking and bittersweet if he saves Din with the lightsaber in this finale, just to return the armor to him. I hope that what ever happens is more thought-provoking than something we expect to happen because of the sequels timeline.

[@117Jorn]

“Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled... but passion is not the same thing as love. Controlling your passions while being in love... that's what they should teach you to beware. But love itself will save you... not condemn you.” - Jolee Bindo.

[@saberiandream316]

That universe is dead, stomped on by Disney vultures picking at the carcass, and EU fans have moved on.

[@CaminhosdaForca]

PERFEITO!!!! but I think that in Return of the Jedi Luke was not using his emotions when he didn’t killed Vader. He was using his teachings and trying to figure out what was truly the Jedi way in that situation, and as we know, it was the way of compassion.

[@curtismartin129]

Attachment is something many jedi struggle with. Obi-Wan's attachment to Satine was never really overcome, merely suppressed and it still clouded his judgement. You could even say the same about his attachment to Anakin. Part of the fall of Jedi order is about their complacency and reliance on dogma rather than direct communion with the force. Dogma tries to force out feelings rather than own them and master them. I think a timeline where Anakin didn't have to hide his attachment is one where he is much less susceptible to the dark side, maybe that means his development as Jedi is a slower path or even one that he willingly abandons, and maybe that too would have had better outcomes for everyone.

[@SamGutermuth]

I see the Jedi distancing themselves from personal attachments should kind of like how I just don’t buy potato chips or candy. Since I can’t control myself, I put myself at a distance from certain temptations. Some people are different and have different vices. Personally, I compartmentalize my relationships with people to a degree others might see as callus, but it’s not that I don’t care. Unlike junk food, relationships don’t control me.

[@stevemorgan7625]

This was my favorite ‘Let’s Talk Some Star Wars” you have spoken about. Good job.

[@authorjoannawhite]

Well spoken. You completely changed my mind in this video as I thought they shouldn't have attachments and basically the opposite of what you said here but I see your point. Thanks

[@bootootheduck]

The fan talk is more interesting than the actual reason. I imagine the choice is there simply for where Luke/Gru is to where they go. Choose this go one way Choose that go that way. Story requires this situation. Is fun to speculate and consider deeply though. Love we can have these chats about star wars now. Such a happy place to be for the fans!

[@DustinMTaylor]

I would disagree that this rule "worked" for a thousand generations. Sure, this rule by itself isn't necessarily a detrimental thorn in the side of the Jedi, but it was indeed the narrow, dogmatic view of the Jedi overall that ultimately lead to their downfall. It was a bunch of little rules like the no attachment thing that, added up, eventually left the Jedi vulnerable and focused on the "code" and not the force itself. If the force dictates that two individuals are to love and be attached to each other, then an arbitrary rule, even if established with good intentions, shouldn't get in the way of that.

[@Shadow05eth]

On the contrary, what saved Vader was not Luke's attachement to him or to his friends it was the fact that he let go his attachements and chose compassion. In the final duel it's his attachements that made him angry and resetful towards Vader and he almost fell to the dark side but when he realised what he was becoming he stopped and refused to give in and surrender to his emotions. When Vader saw that, he realised what he has done and it gave him the strength to turn back to the light. I completely agree the jedi code. Attachements are not something that should be encouraged for a Jedi. It's actually the whole point of the prequels. Attachements are selfish by nature and when you need to protect the whole galaxy from a force cancer that feeds on strong emotions and selfishness you can't afford that. Like Lucas said, there is a difference between love and possessive love. The only thing the Jedi order stands against is possessiveness. Edit: I argue that attachement and love and compassion are not the same thing. There is no not selfish attachements in the Star Wars definition of attachement. In my argument I use this definition. If someone is able to let go of his attachements when comes the moment to choose then these feelings are, by definition, not attachements.

[@rjtwocircles]

I enjoyed your thoughts, and I agree with all of your points. However, I think there is also a more practical reason for the "no attachments” rule. There have been analyses of the final scenes of ROTJ, where Palpatine is trying to save Anakin and Padme is giving birth. If you listen to the music, heartbeats, etc. and carefully watch the scenes as they switch back and forth, it is clear that Lucas was trying to convey that as Vader recovered and his strength grew, Padme’s life force diminished and depleted, inexplicably. One may argue that it was Palpatine, using some Sith arcanum, who caused Anakin to draw life force from Padme. I think this is a good explanation, but he could not have done it if the connection, the attachment, was not already there. I think this is one of the reasons that Palpatine encouraged, even orchestrated, the relationship between Anakin and Padme in the first place. So, what is the nature of “attachment" for a force user? And, especially when one in the relationship is a force user and the other is not? Yes, there would be emotional attachment, but wouldn’t that also cause their connection with the Force, their life force, to be intertwined? If the Force user was unaware of this connection, in a time of need, they might accidentally draw upon the non-force user’s life force. This is not the Jedi way. And, if the attached were both force users, even Jedi? One might be able to protect themselves from an accidental tapping of life force from the other. One might also freely give their life force to save the other’s life. This is probably what we were supposed to see between Kylo and Rey in TROS rather than “healing.” Perhaps, more the Jedi way, but it would be better, as an order, to avoid putting Jedi in a position to have to make this choice and the fallout in the life of the survivor, hence, the "no attachments” rule. This would also give another reason why Younglings were separated so early from their parents and families. A practice I initially thought cruel, emotionally and mentally destabilizing, and unhealthy for the Younglings. As you say, Luke, in giving Grogu a choice, is asking him to sever the emotional connection now before his connection to the Force is so strong and no longer fettered that he is capable of drawing upon Mando's life force. If Grogu chooses Mando, I think Luke is likely to make Grogu forget his additional training with him.

[@WriterusAeternus]

Great video! Attachments are not just about possessions and relationships either. It’s a state of mind. People who practice non-attachment are in relationships and have homes and make money. You can love others and have emotions. Attachment is an ego-centric need to control, grasp and cling onto people or things in order to feel secure and give one a sense of identity. Attachment is fear-based. Non-attachment’s goal is freedom from those fears.

[@mangofett927]

I believe that the rule existed largely to protect against the "lowest common denominator" so to speak. It was likely there to protect against the jedi who weren't able to handle having those attachments. I also believe that Anakin was designed to have the faults he did when Plageius and Sidious meddled with the force to create life. Couple that with the notion that the jedi had lost their way over the millennia and were no longer following the will of the force as a whole, instead doing the bidding of the chancellor and the Senate. Bastilla Shan and Revan had a relationship, and the canon ending for that story is that revan is redeemed and returns to the jedi. I can definitely see your arguments here as well, though. Anakin's attachments were his fatal flaw that sidious exploited in order to turn him. But, anakin was also an exceptional individual, not just some run-of-the-mill jedi.

[@lissadawes4243]

Finally, someone who defends the Jedi’s code. So many Jedi haters saying the Jedi need to change because it’s cruel. You explained it perfectly. This is a needed rule and one the Jedi believe in not forced on them. That’s why the are heroic. I couldn’t be a Jedi that’s why I respect them immensely. They live on a higher plane then everyone else so we can have attachments and the emotional connections they have willingly sacrificed.

[@minerpvpgaming2160]

I think that the jedi were how you described them but by the prequel trilogy they started having their own attachments to things like the republic and started getting dependent on politics and the republic. They also started becoming hypocritical and started to break their own code. This is what made Anakin not trust the Jedi and made him trust palpatine which made him fall to the dark side.They also stopped giving their new jedi a choice like Luke did to Grogu and many of the jedi wouldn't want to be jedi if they had the choice when they were younger. It becomes hard for them to leave since being a jedi is the only life they had.

[@budavargas]

When Qui-Gon wanted to train him, perhaps wasn’t because of Anakin being the Chosen One, but because he knew he was the only Jedi Master to give him the tools to be able to control his emotions.

[@lenircotia]

Thank you sooooooo much for creating that video with your wise thougts/reflections!!! Keep doing more of these philosophical themes in your channel! P.S.: I also love watching your other videos :)

[@nrrork]

If the Jedi were allowed to experience and process their emotions in a proper way, then when they DO become angry or scared, they're not as easily charmed by a smooth-talking serial gaslighter with a red lightsaber. It leaves them as vulnerable as children.

[@ViolettaVie]

Attachment in Star Wars is not love. I think people get hung up on the word and not what it means in this fiction. Love is selfless. Attachment is selfish. We are not looking at these words as defined in reality but how they are defined in Star Wars. Attachment then is possession, not wanting to be without someone or something, fear of loss, the inability to let go. Loving someone, as the Jedi see it, is loving without fear, without dependence or reliance of them always being with you. Love is done through sacrifice of self, not what the other does for you. Anakin was the cautionary tale because his love grew into possession. She was no longer a person who he shared his life with but his and only his. And he did not see her as a person when he fell to the dark side; her rejection of his path was not allowed so he choked her. IRL, when a person is in an abusive relationship we see clearly that it is not love that is being shared, but when we talk about Jedi not having attachments we are suddenly confused and think this is unfair. TLDR Jedi call the abuse of love attachment.

[@TheBrummi10]

Let's quote Jolee Bindo on this: "The Jedi, with their damnable sense of over-caution, would tell you love is something to avoid. Thankfully, anyone who's even partially alive knows that's not true. Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled... but passion is not the same thing as love. Controlling your passions while being in love - that's what they should teach you to beware. But love itself will save you, not condemn you. Love causes pain certainly. Inevitebly love is going to lead to as much sorrow and regret as it does joy. How you deal with the bad part of love is what determines your character, what determines the dark side's hold over you." I know "attachments" is not said once in there but I think it still fits.

[@saberiandream316]

Lucasfilm nuked the EU and continues picking at the corpse. That included KOTOR, despite whatever headcanon media shills try to feed you.

[@matthewashbrook9077]

“My dear Sam, you cannot always be torn in two. You must be one and whole for many years. Your part in this tale will go on."

[@zainhartono7193]

I think attachments were not the problem, it’s what kind and how to differentiate as well as the vagueness of what is permissible that pose the threat. In my mind the Jedi of the republic suffered attachment when they decided to centralise with a grand temple on Corruscant, choosing to ally with the republic itself. I think Luke’s Jedi should become wanderers, nomadic. Sure maybe there is a central place from which each student learns and trains under Luke, maybe that could be Ahch-To, then once they have finished their first few stages or become knights, they leave to wander the galaxy, bringing balance. It would have been awesome if after Rey finds Luke on Ahch-To, that other Jedi turn up and it is revealed that she is one of many students come to train and that her journey was actually required for her training. Like only those who can find Luke’s academy will train in it. I look for reference to Tenzin in Legend of Korra. He has a nomadic jedi-like lifestyle yet also has a family with a wife that though laments her old life at times understands the importance of the one she lives now. Maybe Jedi can have families, form attachments but that naturally they form those bonds with people that in some capacity understands the Jedi way thus seek to minimise it’s difficulty.

[@Ariescz]

I think it was the secrecy that ultimately drove Anakin to his fall. If it was a public knowledge, they would not need to hide, and he could discuss his visions of her death more openly with Yoda and others, which might have make him realize that the visions are not all that reliable, or can be manipulated by dark side. And it would allow Padme much more freedom to access all the top end Republic health care. I do not think dying during childbirth would be all that common with state of the art medical technology (it is very rare even with our comparatively primitive medicine) Also, if Anakin could talk freely to other Jedi without worrying about how his secret might be discovered, he would talk to more people than just Palpatine, making it all that much difficult for the latter to sink his claws into the former.

[@allenparker7142]

Perhaps one reason the "no attachments" rule worked for the Jedi over the millennia was because those chosen to be Padawan learners were traditionally identified at an early age, before they had a chance to develop deep and lasting attachments. Recall, the Jedi Council's initial rejection of Anakin, as voiced by Mace Windu, was that Anakin was "too old." And later, in a conversation between Obi Wan and Qui-on Jin, Obi Wan said the same thing, "he [Anakin] is too old." When Yoda says to Anakin, "I sense much fear in you." it was because the Council's examination of Anakin had established that he missed his mother, to whom he obviously had a strong and binding attachment and love. At one point, Master Ki-Adi-Mundi says to Anakin, "Your thoughts dwell on your mother." Clearly, although it was never explicitly said, there was a connection between Anakin's age and the fact he had first a strong attachment to his mother which later he transferred, in a romantic way, to Padmae which ultimately led to his downfall.

[@darwinskeeper421]

Thor makes a compelling argument for the rule against attachments, though I still wonder about Kanan Jarus. He did seem to find a balance in his relationship with Hera between his love for her and his re-emergence as a Jedi without an order to guide him. Still, I wonder how much his decision to sacrifice himself was following the will of the Force and how much was his desire to protect the people he loved. I once wrote some fan fiction about a Jedi character getting married and his teacher warned him that a Jedi who loves is walking on the edge of a blade. The teacher instructs him to forgive any failing or betrayal. If I were writing that now, would have included something about accepting the limits to one's ability to protect the people he loved. Maybe I would not have written that and left the character being advised on the importance of making a decision and realizing that even if he wasn't a Jedi, there would be other ways he could work to serve the greater good.

[@darthumbradius14]

One story that I thin encapsulate this tension well is the Great Hunt as recounted in Kotor 1. In the goal of killing terentatek left over from the Exar Kun war a team of the three most capable Jedi who together shared a powerful force bond being trusted to complete this mission considered too dangerous for any ordinary Jedi. Two of the Jedi, however, fell in love causing the third to leave out of a combination of fear that their love would lead him down the darkside and pride that his own abilities would suffice. In the meantime, one of the two lovers was slain causing the other to fall to the dark side in grief and eventually perish. The third soon followed them in death. Each owed their death to a manifestation of selfishness had the third not departed, perhaps the other would not have died and his lover not fallen. Had they in turn remained true to the Jedi way, the third would not have departed and the death of one would not have necessitated the fall of the other. “I have tracked the terentatek that ambushed us in the Shyrack caves to this tomb, but even as I stand at the entrance I know this is wrong. Dark thoughts fill my mind: hatred and vengeance. I cannot stop myself from blaming Guun Han for Duran's death. If he had not abandoned us, my love would surely have survived the terentatek's first attack. But my hatred of Guun Han pales beside my burning desire for revenge. My blood boils to destroy the creature that ended Duran's life, no matter what the cost. I know such thoughts are those of the dark side, but I cannot help them. Even the second set of tracks outside the cave cannot dissuade me from my task. One terentatek, two, a thousand. It makes no difference to me now. The only image I see is that of Duran's broken body, and only blood can cleanse it from my mind. I hope my Master will forgive me for what I am about to do.”

[@stoneydixon4249]

I surely hope that Force Ghost Anakin will tell Luke something along the lines of: "Please don't make the same mistake I did, just listen to Obi-Wan. He knows what's best."

[@cloudydays3136]

Its a lesson. Luke doesn't really intend to keep Grogu from Mando. Luke wants to teach Grogu about attachment.

[@Viperfish9000]

Luke on the Mandalori- Book of Boba Fett seems more like a light side or force user rather than a Jedi, which in my opinion is the right way to handle the force. (Sith are still really cool though)

[@Ben-Ken]

This is certainly the best view of the situation I've seen on KZbin. I also wanted Luke to away with the old ways but those ways worked with the exception of Anakin, Dooku, and a few others. Anakin would have made the same choice even if he was allowed to marry.

[@jbynum64]

Flawless Explanation Thor!! Amazing!!

[@seanrea550]

Attachment bears with it the fear of loosing what you are attached to. Discouraging attachments does not mean that the jedi are not able to have relationships and pleasures but they are able to let go of them when it is time.

[@seanrea550]

In fact the jedi order is built on a foundation of relationships through the master apprentice system. The order becomes your family and the jedi your brethren. To say the jedi cannot have relationships completely misses this point. Being completely detachment is not healthy, just as being overly attached to obsession is not healthy. Being connected is the goal.

[@bluedolphin291]

​@@seanrea550 Yes! Beautiful explaining! #LongLivetheJedi

[@joshuafruth6420]

Completely agree, he's giving grogu a choice, not forcing anything, grogu needs to be fully invested in what he wants to do because both routes will be tough and that indecision will kill him or others in the long run

[@pheonixfireblazer]

I think that while Anakin was trained to handle his emotions (clearly not his strong subject) I still think it would have helped massively if he could have talked about her directly even if it was only to Ahsoka or Obi-Wan. It left Palpatine as his only real confidant. It left him much more open to manipulation by Palpatine which is what contributed more than having to keep his love secret. But I don't think Anakin's fall can be blamed solely on one single thing. His dreams of Padme's death were certainly the final push and a huge push at that, there were so many other events that contributed. His mother dying in his arms, Ahsoka leaving the order, Obi-Wan faking his own death. Those last two in particular shook Anakin's faith in the order and were perhaps more formative. I think if he had been allowed to love Padme openly, I think this might have helped at least. As I said before, he could have discussed the particulars of his worries and feel like he really had support from the order. Maybe Palpatine wouldn't have been able to manipulate him so easily. At the end of the day, I think Thor is right. Anakin was always going to choose Padme first. But maybe if Anakin had more support from Obi-Wan or if Ahsoka hadn't left the order, he wouldn't have talked to Palpatine about it. I guess after all this rambling my point is that while Anakin's emotional issues aren't going to be resolved by a rule change, feeling like he could be honest in the order wouldn't have given Palpatine the opportunity to take advantage of his fears. If anything, I think if the Jedi had been more open about discussing prophecies, that would have helped Anakin more. If he had known that they cannot be avoided and seen other stories of Jedi and Sith fighting against them, he might have been (albeit begrudgingly) willing to accept what would happen. Or maybe he would just try that bit harder.