The truth about Obi-Wan's failure and Anakin's fall

In this video I discuss how Obi-Wan's failure played a huge part in the downfall of Anakin Skywalker
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[@thorskywalker]

For those who have been waiting for my next fan fiction story, here is the link to a bit of a teaser trailer for my next one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4TJq55mnK93mMk The video is currently unlisted so a direct link is the only way to find it. Also, to answer the question some might have after watching the trailer, yes it is a sequel of sorts to one of my first fan fictions, that of course being “Rise of the Apprentice.” I wouldn’t say it will be ‘required’ viewing to understand this new story but it will reference it at times. Anyway, the links to the three parts of Rise of the Apprentice for anyone interested in checking them out or watching them again are as follows: Part One: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6vafoNqZduXY7s Part Two: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJ66oKWEjplpjaM Part Three: kzbin.info/www/bejne/goTLi51pqLhgadk

[@sc_art5408]

Thor Skywalker Not to sound harsh, but maybe you should’ve re-uploaded the video, made it public, and all of that. Not only would it have been a better way to build hype, but it would have allowed the people who only follow you for your fan fictions to see it. Even if they’re missing out.

[@thorskywalker]

It's mostly meant for those who have seen my other story videos and know what they're all about, hence not widely releasing it. I will likely do a wider release once the first part of the story is actually posted so that those who have never seen one of my story videos can see the trailer and then promptly check it out the first part.

[@thethoughtcriminal8786]

+Thor Skywalker. Great video and I agree with you. Pride and ambition is one of the huge flaws in the Jedi order....even Yoda mentions it in The Attack of the Clones. But there was something else I notice. There is a strong "Because I said so...." mentality about Jedi that puzzled me. To achieve wisdom, you need to explain to someone why something is wrong so that they can achieve understanding. I noticed many did not try to get Anakin to understand why....except Palpatine, which gave him more influence over Anakin. Possible, after generations even the Jedi do not have an understanding of why it is wrong to embrace the dark side, which is why they are tempted by it, why they are not truly rooted against it. Because when the Jedi code fails them many of them fall hard. It would have been really interesting to see just how many Jedi lost their way because of the clone war...before they died.

[@k.c.8722]

I’m not sure how much of his fault it is but he still failed Luke in some way. Luke more or less copied the the ways of the old order because he still lacked the confidence to be better. This is why his order failed and he wanted to Jedi to end. Maybe that was Luke’s own fault or maybe Obi-Wan should have talked to him (Fact: in canon when Obi Wan died he saw the events of the sequel trilogy but he tried to avoid that and instead held onto the image of Luke as a boy. He could have went further and warned him but he didn’t), but either way he still failed

[@thethoughtcriminal8786]

+K.C. Actually, all Luke ever did was defy Yoda's teachings. Both Yoda and Ben wanted Luke to kill his father, the same as the Emperor which is why Luke threw his light sabre away. Which is why Disney Star War fucking sucks...because they assumed Luke would make the same mistakes....after Luke did the one thing the Jedi thought was impossible.....he redeemed his father. Luke found a way, that nobody else could. But he failed....because Reylo….becaused Disney wants everyone to sympathize with Kylo Ren, that its not his fault that he is evil....no, it's Luke's. Obi-Wan blames himself for Anakin failing to the dark side, we know, ultimately it is up to everyone to make their own choices....find their own path. We live in a society were people do not like to take responsibility for their own choices.....it's easier to blame someone else. And modern story telling encourages that.

[@lukeskywalkerthe2nd773]

It's a tragedy, honestly (no Palpatine reference intended). It's a tragedy that Obi Wan just became another blind Prequel-era Jedi caught up in the Republic's politics instead of following the Will of the Force. And in that was one of the reasons why he failed Anakin. :(

[@minakat369]

As Matt Stover wrote via Count Dooku's POV in the Revenge of the Sith novelization, "Obi-Wan was a classic of his obsolete kind."

[@lukeskywalkerthe2nd773]

@@minakat369 I honestly love that quote from the novelization! :)

[@zainhartono7193]

A great teacher, failure is.

[@minakat369]

That book was filled with great quotes, especially every time we got POVs from each character, from Dooku to Mace to Anakin. Especially Anakin at the end when he's fully transformed into Vader..."This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker...forever."

[@OGStarwars]

Minabear coming from a sith/dark side user. Can he truly say what makes a Jedi when he converted to a sith?

[@helixvoidecho]

The most telling part of kenobi is when hes confronting anakin on mustafar, he specifically says "my loyalty is to the republic, to democracy" which says to me that he wasn't loyal to the jedi, especially how after he witnessed the orders destruction. However, he wasn't necessarily loyal to the force like jinn was either, he was only interested in tbe preservation of the republic and elimination of the sith

[@OGStarwars]

Void Echo well Anakin wasn’t loyal either to the Jedi either (or the sith). He told Padme with his new powers they can rule together and create an empire the way they want it. Even Anakin told Obiwan he brought peace to his new empire.

[@dougiemonday]

Yea... I think this is a great example of the power of the dark side. Pinning every one against everyone... deception. Darth Bane and Plagues would have both been very proud. Vader is right as well when he said Anakin was weak... so to your point I agree.

[@helixvoidecho]

Alorha Baga 2 brothers who developed different end goals to serve the same purposes. Obi-wan wanted the republic to survive to preserve order and peace. Anakin wanted to create his own empire to preserve order and force "peace"

[@MrBiggrim]

@Void echo....Palpatine demonstrated the flaws of Obi Wan's cherished Democracy. So perhaps Anakins view is correct. For there to be Peace both sides must be destroyed. He did say he would kill Palps also.

[@aaron75fy]

*MrBiggrim* sith betray each other all the time, Palpatine betrayed Dooku and Vader plotted to betray him. it wasn't about a point of view btw @ stopped working years ago

[@geraldburke5147]

The irony is Kenobi and Yoda also failed Luke as well. They tried to turn Luke into a weapon to kill Vader and the Emperor. The Jedi had seriously lost their way.

[@B463L]

At some point we have to ask ourselves if the term "Jedi assassin" sounds appropriate. I don't think it does, and deviating so far from their mission didn't seem to win them anything: attempting to kill Anakin accomplished nothing except pushing him further into the dark side.

[@SpectrumGamer29]

At no point do Obi Wan or Yoda ask Luke to kill Vader. They say he must confront him. He must confront him and his fear of him as that is his final trial. He must conquer that fear and not be ruled by it. Then he will be a Jedi. However, neither tells him to fight Vader.

[@geraldburke5147]

@@SpectrumGamer29 Why did Yoda and Obiwan hide the face that Vader was Formerly Anakin and Luke's father....because they were afraid he would not agree to fight and kill his father, which is exactly what happened. When yoda and Ben say you must face Vader again, Luke's reply is he cant kill his own father, Obi wan said then the Emperor has already won...so yes, they wanted him to kill Vader.. Why did they keep Leia identity from Luke? They were willing to let her die on Bespin so that Luke could complete his training in Empire strikes back...remember? Why did Obiwan smile and let Vader kill him in front of Luke, do you think watching Vader kill Ben made Luke more or less willing to kiill Vader. Why not die fight, why let Vader kill him? Why didn't Yoda explain the test in the tree during training is overcoming your fear not giving into it. Luke killed the shade of Vader in his fear Yoda didnt explain to Luke why he failed at the tree...why?? Unless Luke did exactly what they wanted? Kenobi and Yoda were big picture, either Luke or Leia, or both were to be used to finish the fights that Yoda and Ben didn't . I understand Ben and Yoda are supposed to be good guys, but alot of that they did and said doesn't make sense or support that they were heroes, its actually kinda scary...

[@SpectrumGamer29]

@@geraldburke5147 they didn't tell Luke because that would hinder him to know. He would immediately abandon his training and seek out Vader. He wasn't emotionally ready. He wasn't ready in ESB. Yoda even says that it was unfortunate that he found out when he did because he wasn't ready. I believe Yoda and Obi Wan knew Leia would be fine. Luke played no part in her escape. She did that without him. All Luke achieved by going there was getting his hand cut off. Obi Wan said the Emperor had already won because Luke had to be willing to kill him if he needed to. But if combat was what they wanted, why did they never tell Luke to confront the Emperor?? If they wanted Luke to kill Vader, what then? Luke was no match for Palpatine, the Sith Lord, leader of the Empire. What does just killing Vader achieve? Or maybe, just maybe, Yoda and Obi Wan knew Luke could turn Vader. Maybe for the Skywalkers to become Jedi, they needed each other, their final test. Obi Wan smiled when dying because he knew Luke was the hope for the Jedi, and I believe he knew that showing Vader that it was the Jedi who could transcend death would sow seeds of doubt in Vader. Why wouldn't he smile? He knew that the light would win, and it was Anakin and Luke that would bring that about. I think you need to watch the films again because I think you've misinterpreted them. Everything Yoda and Obi Wan said to Luke was true. Facing Vader in Empire would bring nothing but pain. Came true. They also said that Luke had to be willing to sacrifice his friends to honour them and their fight. Luke disagreed. What happened in the next film? He threw his lightsaber away and refused to fight, potentially giving up his life and the lives of the rebellion because self sacrifice is the Jedi way. Again, they were proven correct. The tree showed Luke in Vader's suit. Luke realised if he didn't give up his anger, he would become Vader, exactly what Yoda wanted him to see, so Luke stopped fighting and finally listened to what Yoda and Obi Wan had taught and, like Yoda predicted, he became a Jedi. Luke was the hope for the Jedi and the Galaxy. While not obvious to him, Yoda and Obi Wan were guiding him to that point but he kept rebelling. When he finally listened to them, as Anakin should have done 20 years earlier, he became a Jedi, redeemed his father and saved the galaxy. If you don't see that, I'm sorry that you can't see the true beauty and poetry of Lucas' creation.

[@MrBopeel]

The real failure is Yoda's, in my opinion. Why would the Jedi Council even allow the potentially most powerful Jedi ever, and Chosen One, to be trained by a mere Jedi Knight? Yoda should have been Anakin's master after the death of Qui-Gon.

[@WD-hd1vw]

If not Yoda then mace windu... even though we know mace never wanted anakin trained or even trusted him

[@northofknowhere130]

Neither Windu nor Yoda really believed that Anakin was the Chosen One.

[@Cousins08]

Neither Yoda or Mace were true believers in the prophecy. Obi Wan was going to train Anakin whether it was approved by the council or not. So they just went with it. Compare it to the Sith Lords who take such care and attention when they identify a potential apprentice.

[@northofknowhere130]

Good points.

[@OGStarwars]

MrBopeel that’s a great point.

[@DarkPathMedia]

“...and his redemption through Luke”. In comes the mighty Sequel Trilogy, nullifying any such redemption.

[@GamesWithoutMusic]

Mark Hamill called that character 'Jake Skywalker': kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5XCm6yXe8qdnsk

[@jellochair3569]

not canon, just disney fan fic

[@jellochair3569]

@@GamesWithoutMusic mark hamill is a traitor for even playing that character. someone who would even think to kill his nephew in his sleep? never luke skywalker. luke refused to kill the most evil person in the galaxy his father to save his soul.

[@HunterStiles651]

@@jellochair3569 It's not Mark's fault Luke was so terrible in TLJ. When he signed on he thought that George Lucas would be directing the sequel trilogy, then in come JJ and Rian and by the time he realized what he had gotten himself into it was too late and he was stuck in his new contract.

[@jeremyallen492]

@@HunterStiles651 he should have told them to get stuffed when he only appeared as a half baked cameo in Farce Awakens. I mean come on, how the fuck did he NOT see slapstickily chucking Anakin's lightsaber over his shoulder as a betrayal of the hero his character was SUPPOSED to be? Or spouting out that a teenaged Krylo was irredeemable when Luke almost died to bring his father back to the light? If I didn't know any better I'd say he signed on exclusively for the paycheck and not because of the role

[@joltexe24]

Ah, my favorite star wars story, the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker. In regards to Obi wan, I feel he did the best he could in training Anakin as a jedi, However throughout the prequels, we see that he is very partial to the jedi order. He probably saw the counsel as the highest achievement a jedi can obtain, almost completely disregarding qui gon's teachings and beliefs, that's when he began to fail Anakin. While Obi wan wasn't always in complete compliment of the jedi councel's decisions, he went along with it and tried to adhere to it, probably thinking that the council's decisions will be best in the long run

[@thorskywalker]

I absolutely agree with you. I think Obi-Wan did the best he could considering he took on Anakin literally the same day he himself officially became a Jedi knight.

[@joltexe24]

@@thorskywalker If an obi wan movie is ever made, I would like for it to delve into him picking up the pieces after the horrific events of episode Three, maybe see him going through his force ghost training and from that, gain some perspective and peace of mind that the jedi will rise again with Luke

[@MrEffectfilms]

You're absolutely right on this one and I think one of the best examples of Obiwans failing is the conversation he and Anakin have at the beginning of Attack of the Clones. Obiwan is strictly doing what the council told him to which is to protect Padme until the threat on her life has been stopped, but Anakin suggests that they take action and find the culprit themselves, and not only does Obiwan dispute this idea but he chastises Anakin for it saying "You will learn your place, young one" basically pulling the "I'm older than you so that makes me right" card when really Anakin was right. The jedi needed to take a more active role in the galaxy and not just be at the beck and call of the Senate. They likely would have discovered Dookus plot and possibly even Palpatines identity as a Sith Lord if they had used their own head's and took some action.

[@MrEffectfilms]

@Method12321 Yup, totally. Yoda more or less admits this when he and Mace learn about the Clone army. "Blind we are if creation of this Clone army we could not see".

[@Dragon_Lair]

To be fair, Anakin was not in a position to undermine his masters authority, but he did just that immediately after Obi Wan said the opposite. What Anakin should have done is wait to talk to Obi Wan about it when they were not in front of everyone else.

[@englishlady9797]

@Method12321 The Dark Side was always there. I think the mistake a lot of people make with Star Wars is they assume the Sith the Dark Side were one and the same. Inseparable. They were not. The Dark Side was more a separate entity that always existed, independently of any Sith. Just like the Light Side would exist if there weren't any Jedi. The Jedi's problem was not their over-reliance on the Force. It was that they were out of touch with the Force (hence why their abilities were waning), and were compromising their morals and values in blind service to the Republic. There's another video where is says they replaced following the Force with following the Will of the people.

[@englishlady9797]

One thing I will say here though is that Dooku, whilst objectively evil at the end, was a political Reformer at heart. He could see how corrupt the Republic and become, and felt the Jedi had failed in their moral duty to stand against and challenge that corruption. They just went along with it, and in the process, became tainted by it themselves. You could say they had lost their moral integrity and just became blind servants of the Senate.

[@englishlady9797]

Also, the way Obi Wan shut him down in public, it was actually quite inappropriately harsh. Even Padme and Jar Jar looked uncomfortable. He was not chastising him, he was demeaning him. Humiliating him. Anakin's posture said it all, hunched shoulders, looking down at the floor. All for making a suggestion. Anakin in the movies is actually not nearly as rebellious as he is in The Clone Wars series. He's trying his best. It was actually Padme's idea to go rescue Obi Wan on Geonosis for example.

[@LocksAndChains]

This makes me wonder how differently things would've turned out had Qui-Gon not been killed by Maul.

[@elderrusty541]

LocksAndChains we’d see that Qui-Gon Jinn had a very particular set of skills

[@that__guy_5049]

That's why it's called duel of the fates. It's the fate of the child. If it's Qui-gon then Anakin gets a father figure, and if it's obi-wan then Anakin gets a brother. Which isn't what he needs. Obi-wan is dogmatic of the Jedi ways. Anakin's following of obi-wan has lead him to be a slave to the Jedi order. And eventually a slave to the sith. If only Qui-gon was alive would Anakin have a chance to save his mother, to break free from his chains, yet Qui-gon will still remind him to keep calm, and that ultimately the will of the force is for them to do good, and not to fall to the dark side.

[@landong3064]

He would have raised anakin better.

[@dazdavis7896]

Qui-Gon Jinn would’ve been the perfect master for Anakin. Kenobi and Anakin were VERY similar when they were young. Read the Jedi Apprentice and Jedi Quest series. They’re great. Jude Watson knows how to write some Star Wars. She gets into their heads well. But anyways, QGJ would’ve kept Anakin on the Jedi path and would’ve made him what he was always meant to be to begin with. Instead of having to redeem himself later on. Lucas said this himself, if he never would’ve died, Anakin would’ve been the grandmaster of the order by the time of the original trilogy.

[@englishlady9797]

@@that__guy_5049 I think its maybe a bit more than that. Qui Gonn always put his conscience and doing what he felt was right above rigid adherence to the Jedi Code. That though also meant he wasn't prepared to turn a blind eye to injustice, and would speak out against it, even if it meant standing alone. In a lot of ways, Anakin was like him. He stood basically alone against he entire council and most of the Order when Ahsoka Tano was accused of a crime she didn't commit. And he wasn't prepared to just submit to the "Jedi way" if it meant tolerating the grave injustice of her being convicted and punished for it.

[@Alias_Anybody]

There's also one factor which was neither Obi-Wan's nor Anakin's fault: Obi's young age and general lack of experience as a Jedi. He simply couldn't be the father surrogate Anakin needed (and Palpatine took over). They usually rather acted like an aloof older and a snarky younger brother as well, further backed up by CW and dialogue in RotS.

[@Dark6997]

Yep I agree Anakin needed a father and saw Obi Wan as a father but Obi Wan himself saw Anakin as a brother. I think also another part from Obi Wan being young is that Obi Wan still saw himself as taken Qui Gon's place. He took Anakin as an apprentice to honor his master and I think he never outgrew that Anakin was supposed to be Qui Gon's hence another reason he saw him as a brother. He was simply an older brother taking the place of their dead father. When what Anakin needed was a new father.

[@GalaxyDogenut]

Which Clone Wars? 2003 or 2008?

[@Alias_Anybody]

@@GalaxyDogenut TCW 2008. The 2D CW basically just adopted Ep2 Anakin.

[@GalaxyDogenut]

yeah. I guess both did showcase this dynamic, in different ways.

[@Jessica-wo6px]

Exactly! 👍

[@suaamigamisteriosa]

It's very refreshing to see a video that is well thought out like this. Too many swing to the extremes, claiming a character is either inescapably horrible or an absolute paragon of virtue. In the case of Kenobi, too many people seem to think he is the ultimate Jedi, the paragon of virtue, the grandmaster-that-never-was, surpassed only by Yoda and Luke, and only because they are Yoda and Luke. It's nice to see other sides of characters like this video explained. Yes, Kenobi was a remarkable Jedi, but was not without his faults, failings, and shortcomings, like any human. But those faults, failings, and shortcomings don't make him a monster, or even diminish his accomplishments, they simple "are".

[@thorskywalker]

Very well said. And it is these faults and shortcomings, as well as his achievements, that make him a well rounded and great character.

[@geetadhumane5793]

@@thorskywalker exactly ....That is why he is my favorite character

[@skyhime]

I thought it was very strange of ob1 to say out loud that anikin was a pethetic life form. Goes to show his mindset was not in the right place to train anikin. He did it out of obligation n not what quigon had ment. Oh well. I guess he did a better job with luke...

[@AndrewMRoots]

@@skyhime Did he? Luke ignored him, just as Anakin did Lol

[@skyhime]

@@AndrewMRoots ok. Maybe ben did nothing? Luke was just op in making good decisions??? Saved his dad after all. 😃

[@austinjohnsen4430]

Yeah I honestly don’t know what Qui Gon was thinking when he told a still padawan Obi-Wan to train Anakin, he should have at the very least remind Obi-Wan that he needs to train Anakin the way he trained him.

[@xXMasterJ360Xx]

Anakin is the embodiment of irony , but I believe what most ppl missed out on is that old jedi prophecy stayed true to its words. He brought balance to the force by killing Darth Sidious at the cost of his life... after all as Darth Vader he made the force unbalanced

[@chrisblaze1484]

As exemplified by their disagreements and arguments in Episode 2 and 3, Obi-Wan and Anakin were like day and night. And we see this with several hero characters who are on the same side, but fundamentally have different personalities and may solve problems differently. Obi-Wan and Anakin are like Captain America and Iron Man, or Superman and Batman, or Spock and Kirk. And what these partnerships also have in common is that both characters like to be in charge, which can cause a rift between the two. Even though Obi-Wan is older than Anakin, he started training him right after he had been anointed as a Knight, which isn't enough experience to be a teacher like other Jedi Masters. The way young Kenobi taught seemed quite rigid and strict, as if you had to be exactly like him and do everything his way. In a way, I felt like Kenobi was selfish during his teachings and lacked empathy towards Anakin. Obi-Wan didn't know what it was like to grow up as a slave. He didn't know what it was like to leave your only parental figure behind (because he was taken away from his parents as an infant). This can be seen when Anakin tells Obi-Wan about the dreams he had of his mom. Kenobi simply shrugged and said, "Dreams pass in time." And honestly, that's all he can say. Because he doesn't know what it's like to worry about a parental figure. Also, Obi-Wan came across hypocritical when he scolded Anakin for having attachments towards Padme when he himself harbored a deep love for Satine. Obi-Wan strived to be the "perfect" Jedi. He's the person who will strictly follow discipline and rules, follow everything his superiors say, and more or not be a "yes man." While Anakin was the polar opposite as he was more loose about rules, rebellious, and daring to say the least. It's also the difference between someone who grew up a privileged life receiving education and someone who grew up poor having to self-teach themselves. You'd think that these different personality traits would complement each other. However, it's only if the two people come to terms with one another. Spock preferred used logic to solve situations as Kirk preferred unpredictable methods. After all their bickering, they still could work together because they had come to terms with each other's differences. Obi-Wan and Anakin did not. It was Obi-Wan's ultimate test to come to terms that Anakin wasn't going to be what he wanted him to be. He needed to learn how to accept Anakin for who he was. And this is sadly what many teachers fail to understand. Being a teacher does not mean instructing a student to do exactly everything your way. That sounds like a commander, or worse, a manipulator. A teacher should show a student their way, but also allow students to accomplish a task with their own thoughts and intuition so they can do things in their own unique manner. Teachers just need to do a better job teaching students to think for themselves. Or else, future generations will be sheep that will struggle to articulate their own thoughts or do anything by themselves.

[@englishlady9797]

Great comment. I just wanted to add one point. I honestly think one of the most tragic scenes in Episode 2, perhaps even in the entire Prequel trilogy was the exchange between Obi Wan and Anakin when they go into that bar thing chasing after the bounty hunter who tried to assassinate Padme. Obi Wan: "One of these days you'll be the death of me" Anakin: "Don't say that Master, you're the closest thing I've ever had to a father" Obi Wan: "Then why don't you listen to me?" Anakin: "I am trying Master" Anakin desperately needed a father figure. He tended to elevate any older male who held a supervisory position over him to that status, but Obi Wan thought being a "father" was about just making Anakin do what he said. Forcing him to obey and conform basically. That's not what it means to be a father, and that's not what Anakin needed. Actually, that kind of relationship dynamic is more akin to Master/slave. For a young person with the complex mental health issues Anakin had, having the person he wanted to be a father figure to regard him as something akin to a slave or underling would have been very damaging. Especially since he was literally spent the first 9 years of his life as a slave. Obi Wan should have accepted Anakin for the person he was (as you say) and been someone who he could confide in without judgement. Then he could have been fatherly or like a brother. He was neither of those things, and as a result Anakin became all the more isolated and lost, tending to internalize things and keep his own counsel. That's also why I think he tends to overshare with people like Palpatine and Padme. That's typical of an introvert. A person who has few real friends tends to open up too much with the few people they feel they *can* confide in. It also goes some way towards explaining his occasional outbursts and loss of control. People can only keep things bottled up for so long. Eventually, its going to come out. It has to, or it will drive them crazy.

[@pumpkinbagelpatch]

He also didn’t stand up for anakin when he was denied the rank of master, I’m pretty sure he was only on the council so he could spy on palpatine, but obi-wan didn’t even stand up for anakin, along with what happened didn’t ahsoka, obi-wan didn’t stand up much and just went with it, he also lied to anakin, using anakins strong attachments against him and used his attachments and emotions to make it look more real, Obi-wan fakes his death and didn’t tell anakin, they where close best friends and you decide to break his trust, obi-wan didn’t even say sorry to anakin. (People also have the audacity to say “it wasn’t obi-wand fault, he was just following orders, because he is a good Jedi” ughh Obi-wan also knew about Padme and Anakin, and he didn’t say anything, if obi-wan just told them that he knew, much could be different Obi-wan also didn’t even try to bring anakin back, he only made it worse and worse, it’s obi-wand fault for everything, he decided to bored to ship, he got padme choked, padme could have calmed anakin down, but no obi-wan had to come out and they made anakin the opposite of calm. Obi-wan than decided to fight him, he pulled out the lightsaber first, and than said things to him, things that are only going to make it worse, he also basically just gave up of anakin, after he lets anakin burn he says “ I LOVED YOU” “YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE” Why say this as anakin is burning in lava? Like come on, why didn’t you say it before? And he just left him there…LEFT HIM TO DIE Than had the audacity to go back to padme and help her, when she asked “is anakin alright?” NO GIRL SHES NOT, THE PERSON YOU ARE TALKING TO JUST CUT OF HID LIMBS AND LET HIM BURN IN LAVA. Like really? Also why did he have to split the twins apart? Why couldn’t they just stay together, there was no need to split them. He also wanted Luke to kill his father… He didn’t believe there was hope for anakin, the moment anakin turned obi-wan didn’t believe he was the chosen one anymore and went onto his son.

[@pumpkinbagelpatch]

@@englishlady9797 He couldn’t talk to ahsoka either, she left him and he was still hurt by that, than when they met up again, she was distant and pushing him away, she didn’t even hug him for anything, that smile before he left looked so fake. Palpatine had also been grooming anakin so since the start, there was no way anakin would escape it.

[@PSYMEDIC]

@@pumpkinbagelpatch Obi-Wan was a Jedi. Jedi are not supposed to be emotionally attached. The mentor is *not* supposed to be the padawans father figure. Hindsight is always so thing. It is easy to say that Obi-Wan is at fault rather then the circumstances. Anakin was a slave, Anakin was a young soldier and he was groomed by Palpatine. The fact that Obi-Wan and Anakin didn't see each other anymore because of the war didn't help.

[@pumpkinbagelpatch]

@@PSYMEDIC I know. And the fact that obi wan wasn’t supposed to have attachments and wasn’t supposed to be a father figure it correct. But that doesn’t help as palpatine took some of the father figure role and manipulated him.

[@Cousins08]

Anakin's troubles. Nightmares about his mother, killing Sand people. Felt he could tell Padme/Palp but not his master. How come Palp can read his thoughts but none of the Jedi can? (Too preoccupied with politics?) Goes to Yoda for advice, essentially is told to ignore the premonitions and let go. Palp however tells him, "I can help". What would you do? Lol

[@thorskywalker]

The truly strange part is that Anakin never goes to Obi-Wan with the whole Padme issue even though in The Clone Wars Series Anakin learns Obi-Wan once loved Satine. So it seems like Obi-Wan would be the perfect person for him to confide in but he never does....

[@Cousins08]

@@thorskywalker they just didn't have that relationship did they? watching the prequels recently (I've only seen bits and pieces of the tv show). It seems as if they don't like each other very much.

[@thorskywalker]

I agree. You never got that "he was a good friend" feeling out of Anakin and Obi-Wan in the movies, which is how Obi-Wan described him in A New Hope. You do, however, get that in The Clone Wars but it was something the movies really failed to pull off.

[@Cousins08]

@@thorskywalker I should watch clone wars properly. I found it a bit tedious so cherry picked the best episodes to watch. Whereas I enjoyed Rebels. Have you read Plageuis? There's a bit where Plageuis and Sidious hope the council won't train Anakin but are disappointed upon learning Qui-Gon will train him anyway. Fascinating. I've just decided it's all Maul's fault. Killing Qui-Gon sealed Anakin's fate.

[@thorskywalker]

Greg Elchert Clone Wars did the character of Grievous no favors. It seemed like he was defeated and had to run away every other episode. If anyone ever watches everything in order, and checks out Clone Wars before Episode III, they'll wonder why anyone considers him a legitimate threat at all in that movie....

[@scottgross5236]

And then along came Rian The Last Jedi Johnson to screw up your assertion that Luke would be Obi-wan's redemption.

[@annalivia1308]

That could still be. I am not talking about the force ghost idea but could it be that without Luke there would be no hope for redemption? Maybe he is part of the way. The path is the destination.

[@scottgross5236]

@@annalivia1308 I agree. I was mostly taking a shot at nimrod Rian Johnson and his destruction of Star Wars in general.

[@googlesucks478]

Rian Johnson sucks

[@conradojavier7547]

When Obi-Wan got himself killed for Luke, & then Luke tried to kill his Nephew/Padawan, Obi-Wan died for Nothing.

[@didimean]

That isnt all he screwed up.

[@tkahres]

"Hey kid, come with us and we'll free you from slavery and give you a new life." "What about my mom?" "Nope. No time. She's gotta stay." "But doesn't the Jedi Council has tons of cash and could easily buy her freedom? "Don't be possessive, it's not the Jedi way." "Then can I come back in like five years and try?" "Nope, your training is way too intense." Later: "Yoda, I feel kinda fucked up about my mom and these dreams I'm having--" "Interrupt you I will right there. Don't deal with those emotions, bottle them up, don't confront your fear. In your pocket keep it. Remember you must... Men--excuse me. Jedi, do not feel things that suck. Or cry." Later: "Anakin, how you feeling, bro?" "Hey, Palpatine... you know you're like the first person who's asked me that in like--ever? God, the Jedi don't talk about anything." A half-decent therapist and Anakin could've dealt with a lot of his obvious PTSD issues...

[@MS-fh4sz]

LMAO and you are 100% right!!!

[@englishlady9797]

THIS! You are completely correct. Far too many people take a simplistic view of this issue and think what happened with Anakin vindicated Jedi teaching on attachments. It does not. Humans are naturally social creatures. We *need* attachments, and since most of the alien species in SW seem to live in cultures with similar social units, they probably do as well. Suppressing all emotions and becoming totally detached is actually extremely dangerous. More dangerous than giving in to one's emotions. Arguably, it was Jedi teaching that created Darth Vader, who when the last person he loved was taken from him became an entirely unfeeling killing machine.

[@northofknowhere130]

3:47 Not to argue with you Thor, but in defense of Anakin, he is told that he's the "Chosen One" who's set forth to bring balance to the Force and then is really kept low key by the council and his master. I'd go as far as to say that the council resented him, especially with Yoda's remarks at the end of Ep. I. Could Jinn's relationship with the council have something to do with it? I'm not alleviating Anakin of his part in his downfall, but merely expanding on it. I do agree that he had some pride during Ep I, but it seems like the Jedi fanned those flames too. To be honest, his downfall is so complex that an entire video could be devoted to it. However, another fault is that Kenobi was too strict during Ep II and then was too lenient during Ep III. I often wondered why not even one Jedi picked up on either Anakin marrying Padme' or that she was bearing his child. Could it be the cloud of Darkness via Lord Sidious, the lost connection of the Jedi, or a combination of both? It does seem that Kenobi was a bit closer to Yoda than Jinn, though.

[@thorskywalker]

Hey, I have no problem when people disagree with me. If I did I'd just disable comments, lol Seriously though, Anakin's fall is a very complex one with several huge factors, some of those being: - An inability on Obi-Wan's part to be able to train him, which is in large part due to the fact that he himself was a freshly minted Jedi Knight who likely still had plenty left to learn himself.... - Palpatine's brilliant machinations - Anakin's love for Padme and his mother which opened the door for those machinations on Palpatine's part to work - And the one you point out... the doubt the Jedi Council expressed in him, which was there all the way to the bitter end when Mace even said to him "you will have earned my trust" if what Anakin had told him about Palpatine was true. This implies it hadn't been there before...

[@zacharycherif5525]

look at the movie again, no one tells him directly he is the chosen one

[@northofknowhere130]

During Ep III and out of anger, Kenobi says that he was the Chosen One. This implies that he knew he was the Chosen One. Also, George Lucas said that Anakin's the Chosen One.

[@bullitt_gaming]

Zachary CHERIF No one tells him directly *on screen* that he's "The Chosen One" but it's not too big of a stretch or leap to believe that he's been told that, at some point, *off screen.*

[@amipadme3985]

In Episode I, when the Council tells Qui-Gon they will not let Anakin be trained, he says, with Anakin standing there, "He IS the Chosen One! You must see it!""

[@Cousins08]

Great video. I've been thinking about Anakin's fall quite a bit lately. Especially after reading various novels such as the canon Thrawn books and the Darth Plagueis novel. And re watching the prequels. The key thing for me is Qui-Gon's death. He's the father figure. When he dies, it's Palpatine that becomes the father figure and not Obi-Wan. (Despite Anakin's quote in attack of the clones "he's like a father"). The ending of Plageuis book. Altho it's not Canon is fascinating. Obi Wan chastises a 9 year old Anakin at every opportunity. Has no sympathy for the fact he's left his mother in slavery. Doesn't show any understanding or compassion really. But Palpatine does. In attack of the clones I get the impression that the constant chastisement has continued in the 10 years. Which would explain Anakin's resentment. Obi Wan strikes me as someone who took Anakin as his apprentice out of obligation. Like a step father who is stuck bringing up a kid he doesn't really like. I suppose, in summary. The Anakin Obi Wan relationship was dysfunctional from the beginning and Palpatine took full advantage. It's easy to forget that Palpatine relationship with Anakin is as long as Obi Wan's (up to the purge of course) but one with more love and respect (at least from Anakin's pov). Cheers 🙂

[@k.c.8722]

Cousins08 that’s one thing I think canon does better than legends. The relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin. In the canon comics before AotC while they have their differences they do seem to actually like and care about each other, whereas legends seems like they hate each other

[@rcbmmines4579]

Cousins08 I highly suggest reading the EU Dark Lord trilogy (Labyrinth of Evil, Revenge of the Sith novel, Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader). They’re great novels that I’ve also read a bit recently that show insight to Anakin’s inner thoughts and feelings as well as details about Sidious’ plan and much more.

[@rcbmmines4579]

K.C. I disagree. I’m guessing you haven’t read any of the Republic Comics set in the prequel era? They show their bond a lot in the original Battle of Kamino, Jabiim where Anakin thought him dead and cried in grief and afterwards when Anakin is the one to find him still alive. Both were overjoyed to be reunited. That was BEFORE his knighting. The original Clone Wars micro series by Tartakovsky greatly shows the evolution of their relationship. This quote from before Anakin’s Knight by Obi-Wan perfectly shows it while foreshadowing a RotS “It is time for us to lay down our roles as master and student and become....brothers”. The fact that this makes their bond stronger and what Obi-Wan says in Mustafar show that he failed because Anakin fit more as a brother than as a son or student to him. It’s after his knighting that Obi pretty much stops showing too much criticism of him and Anakin starts to become less disobedient. He would frequently praise Anakin and commend his work as well while Anakin pretty much always fought alongside him even after becoming a Knight. It was Filoni who retconned this by giving him his own padawan but before that he pretty much went to missions with him all the time.

[@k.c.8722]

RCBM Mines I’ve read them in parts. And yes they have some good moments but still plenty of rough patches. I think they grow closer because of the war. And after Anakin is knighted. Anyway I was actually talking BEFORE the war like the Jedi quest books vs the canon marvel comics

[@rcbmmines4579]

K.C. Fair enough but like I said it’s not like they never showed a bond even before the Knighting. I actually also forgot to mention they’re tally of times they’ve saved each other referenced in the film and actually shown in Labyrinth of Evil. In many ways I think that the EU does a better job of fitting with the main saga. Especially so with the Clone Wars EU content compared to the Filoni show. While the latter is great on its own, and Ahsoka is a great character, her existence and many other aspects of the show are pretty hard to reconcile with the films at least compared to the EU content.

[@swiftysolves2081]

Last time I was this early Obi wan didn’t have the high ground!

[@thorskywalker]

lol

[@sc_art5408]

Beaten again... but fear not! I will return again! More powerful than you could possibly imagine!

[@ChrisPTenders]

Awesome video Thor. I would have talked more about how Obi-Wan's rule-bound mentality clashed with Anakin's idealistic romanticized view of the Jedi. Obi-Wan not only failed to instruct him in deferring from pride, he became an example to the contrary. He stepped all over Anakin's pride instead of guiding him out of it, which only inflated Anakin's sense of pride out of spite. The two had a pissing contest relationship rather than one of teacher and learner. Obi-Wan took every chance he could to remind Anakin he was beneath him, and this is likely out of resentment for Qui-Gon having abandoned him to train Anakin instead. This is pretty much affirmed when Obi-Wan repeated the words his own master used as positive reinforcement for his submission to his master's will: "You are strong and wise, and a far greater Jedi than I could ever hope to be" - Obi-Wan to Anakin, Episode III "You've been a good apprentice, and you are a much wiser man than I am... I foresee you will become a great Jedi Knight" - Qui-Gon to Obi-Wan, Episode I Obi-Wan's story is actually quite tragic when you think about it... he was abandoned, then he was entrusted with the child he was abandoned for: like a child who's parents died entrusted with a younger sibling that took all their time and attention away from him. He spent his time in charge belittling his younger brother to the point his brother was driven to toxic relationships and a quest for power, and then he had to destroy the monster he raised before living the rest of his life in exile recounting the good times he wished he had enjoyed more in the moment... in denial about how much of the blame was on him, resorting to half-truths to keep himself sane.

[@carloRX78K2]

about the obi wan story let me add up to that If what I've heared is correct in canon obi wan grew up on rich prideful family and he was later challenged in his younger years by others some where force sensitive as much as he is, and later found by qui gon jin to train him in the force...atleast thats what I heared or read somewhere.

[@Borjigin.]

Man, that last paragraph is really brutal. Tragic.

[@englishlady9797]

Got to say though, Obi Wan was kind of selfish and immature for being resentful of an abused child slave who had literally nobody after Qui Gon died. Yes, I do believe he felt like a he'd been supplanted in his "father's" affections, and then saddled with said child, but resentment and jealousy is not a good basis for any kind of relationship. Also, Obi Wan was an adult at the time of Qui Gonn's death. Like 20. An adult can deal with that kind of loss much better than a 9 year old who literally never had a father figure before. The other thing is that whilst its true Anakin was prideful and arrogant, there were reasons for that. He was exceptionally gifted and talented, and we know that Force abilities tend to manifest themselves in Star Wars. What he needed was not strict discipline, nor "special" treatment. He needed support, unconditional love, and yes, support and guidance. What he got was reluctant acceptance into an organization that never wanted him, that treated him as if he was evil and bad from the outset. An organization that I would say was fundamentally *abusive*. They took a child with complicated mental health issues and serious trauma, and treated him in such a way as to only make that worse. They let him know they never wanted him, and put him under the care of someone who never wanted him, then wondered why that kid went off the rails. wingletblackbird.tumblr.com/post/167085096868/a-nurturing-environment

[@Jessica-wo6px]

He was rushed to the role of father figure and mentor at so young...when he had just passed as Jedi Knight and was grieving from the loss of Qui Gon. He failed to keep Anakin humble and disciplined by not tempering his pride and remind him that the Jedi were not perfect heroes but people who can sometimes make mistakes but I feel Yoda and the council failed Obi Wan by leaving him to train the powerful padawan without much experience when it should have been Yoda who could give Anakin the structure and training he needed. Obi Wan was tasked with teaching the chosen one when he barely started teaching and this mistake by the Jedi would cause his and Anakin's downfalls.

[@MMZERO9]

As Mr. Miyagi said best: “No such thing as bad student, only bad teacher.”

[@mistere9099]

Great analysis. Qui-Gon Jinn's role in the story, and how at-odds he is with the Jedi Council, really gets overlooked. Man, this make's Luke's eventual fall all the more disappointing. He was the one who was supposed to do it all right and, instead, I guess fails because he didn't read the Jedi books or whatever.

[@Cousins08]

Really good point.

[@thorskywalker]

Yes, the more you think about it the more depressing Luke's failure becomes. Because it means that Yoda and Obi-Wan both failed again as well....

[@OGStarwars]

Action Jackson well in George’s EU Luke is successful. I will stick with that story. Luke basically “fixes” the wrong in the old Jedi order

[@OGStarwars]

Greg Elchert great point.

[@BlyUehara37]

I prefer the Old EU version of Luke post Return of the Jedi Since it is still the same guy of the Original Trilogy A positive, optimistic guy and fix what the Jedi failed

[@kensingcd]

I love the “I’ll do what I must” from Qui Gon. Kenobi says it to Vader on Mustafar. It’s sad that it took Kenobi losing everything to understand how to serve the force

[@lordvader7458]

This is REAL SHIT. I never looked at their relationship this way. Thanks

[@joelcrow5183]

This is a great explanation. Obi-Wan is probably my favorite character. One thing I remember though is that Qui-Gon himself tells Obi-Wan that he is a wiser man than himself. Maybe that kind of humility is itself the mark of a spirit that the force can be strong in. Obi-Wan loves Anakin, but seldom focuses on anything but his faults. Of course the whole thing is overcomplicated by the prophecy which seems to say Anakin is the chosen one.

[@countluke2334]

Coming here after the Obi-Wan series: I think it aged rather well and the show is along the same lines. Obi-Wan was broken and defeated and in a way finished with the Jedi altogether, and the events of the series made him come around, understand his own failures but also overcome them. Thus he is able to finally connect to Qui-Gon.

[@RyanTheDark]

The high ground is Anakin true fail

[@IPFreelly604]

can't go higher than the high ground

[@genghisgalahad8465]

Execute Order is complete. For now.

[@zuffin1864]

Betrayal between brothers is always one of the best things a director can put on screen. It is so painful, seeing not only the loss of your brother, but the rise of a monster...

[@zainhartono7193]

Last Jedi’s message of failure should be one in an Obi-Wan solo film. Luke’s story arc shouldn’t have been focused on that. It did his arc a disservice. The fall of the Jedi was a story of failure and Luke’s story was one of redemption for that failure. The sequel trilogy shouldn’t have stuck with that though otherwise it’s the same question again. If learning from failure only breeds more failure then what’s the point.

[@OGStarwars]

Zain Hartono good point. George Lucas’s era did the redemption from the failure well. Luke reestablishing the order and correcting the wrongs within it

[@Rg-fp2vg]

John Podmolik that’s with this last Jedi it is if it went the way JJ Aram was pushing and the what I heard from star wars theory it could have been a beast of a movie

[@Wilphart]

Please don't justify Roundhead's portrayal of Luke as an "arc." Arcs connect from start to finish. Arcs are rainbows and catapults. Roundhead did a railgun. In a fraction of a second, Luke went thousands of meters from where he started with nothing in-between. But except for my word-smithing, I agree with your comment.

[@TioMegamanX]

It is interesting how modern series/film sequels are destroying their expanded universes left and right leaving the fans no option but to completely disown what is supposed to be official stuff, I guess for me it ends on RotJ and then continues on with Thrawn, Jedi Academy and the Vong.

[@zainhartono7193]

Tío Megaman X Don’t get me wrong I was as excited about this era of SW as any fan. Excited about the new characters, hungry for the stories and curious about the characters that I grew up with. At the times of their release or at least with Force Awakens I was hooked and left me wanting more up until the death of Skywalker, I loved the films, then it sinks in.

[@uni4rm]

Obi-wan was actually surprised to be considered good enough for the council or a leader of any kind, much less a "master jedi". This is revealed in the book. He considered himself merely a Jedi Knight, despite others considering him one of the most powerful masters of his time (which he was). It was , in part, because of this almost naive humility that he was on the council. The council is not unaware of the arrogance in Jedi, even Yoda admits this in one of the movies. Obi-wan didn't fail to teach, Anakin refused to learn, and allowed himself to be manipulated. Anakin hid his true views of the Force and held to his dogma. Obi-wan failed Anakin as a friend, not as a teacher. Was Anakin not a powerful, skilled, force-user? Anakin sought out a father figure, and found that in both Palpatine and Obi-wan. Obi-wan never had a chance at halting Palpatine's manipulations and corruption. That's why he said he had failed him. Not because of anything he taught him, but failed to stop the outside forces that corrupted Anakin.

[@JBFJBFJBF]

Do you know what book it's referenced in?

[@EricGraham94]

There’s a quote from BVS that sums up Anakin perfectly... “That’s how it starts. The fever, the rage, the feeling of powerlessness that turns good men cruel.”

[@Jessica-wo6px]

Wise quote:)👌👍

[@toshi5000]

I think another crucial failure is that Obi-Wan also knowingly ignored Anakin's romance with Padme, possibly because he himself had felt the same way about Dutchess Satine and figured it would be all right, or perhaps he didn't know just how deep Anakin and Padme's love had grown.

[@jlassijlali290]

Honest i blame Palpatine! ....

[@sc_art5408]

Jlassi Jlali I blame the prequels for not being able to depict Anakin’s fall properly.

[@OGStarwars]

I agree with you both. Palpatine fed Anakins ego - which no matter how perfect Obiwan training was - Anakin’s ego was conflicted due to Palpatine msnipukation

[@omarsantana3680]

Anakin's fall does not mark the end of Obi wans failures. he continued to fail with Luke when he tried to convince him to kill Vader. not just face him as we can quote Obi wan saying, but kill him also. Obi wan was wrong about that. he got personally "right" with the force enough to become a ghost but his failure through mischaracterizing how Luke needed face Vader would follow Luke to inevitably destroy his own Jedi order. this video detailing Obi wans failure is incomplete.

[@BlueDragonknight375]

If Luke had killed Vader without knowing he was his father I'd imagine Palpatine would have an easy time turning him.

[@omarsantana3680]

@@BlueDragonknight375 - I agree.

[@elpopman2055]

Luke Did Kill Vadar.. Resulting In Anakin Being Reborn. Keep In Mind Vadar See Anakin/ His Past Self As Failuire.

[@omarsantana3680]

@@elpopman2055 - it was Palpatines force lightning that killed Vader, not anything Luke did.

[@pumpkinbagelpatch]

@@omarsantana3680 no, he meant that Luke helped kill Vader and bring anakin back.(yea your comment was 2 years ago I don’t think you care)

[@briannaweeks6357]

Loved this video! I was literally just discussing Obi Wans feelings regarding the Jedi order and anakin in the OT with my husband and then this video popped up. I find it curious though, that both yoda and Obi Wan did not believe anakin could be redeemed even after coming to understand much more about the failures of the Jedi st that time. I agree with you that I do not think Obi Wan himself ever fully understand just how he failed anakin. Only that he did, because well obviously.ha! Obi Wan was very devoted to the order/council and I wonder how much of the whole thing he actually ever attributed to the Jedi themselves rather than to this idea that they were deceived “by a lie.” Im assuming yoda shared with Obi Wan the enlightenment he received regarding how lost the Jedi were after his training to become a force ghost but I often wonder if Obi Wan ever really fully understood it.

[@katsasden]

Well said!!!

[@niche0boven]

I think you're reading a bit too much into Jinn's request on how to train Anakin that there just isn't enough grounding in those scenes. This was after the massive vote of 'no confidence' in Obi-Wan in the council meeting. How was Obi-Wan supposed to think anything about Jinn's expecting training in being a true Jedi? Telepathy is not really a thing in canon presentations. Jinn left Kenobi floundering, without even spending time during the several days transport to Naboo to straighten out the Council scene. And Jinn showed more than a bit of pride himself too in his arguing with and about his padawans, and his fighting skill. If we include the books, the movie scenes are even more problematic. Obi-Wan was set up to fail, partly by the mess Jinn left with the Council, partly with the Code and Order themselves, partly by his own insecurities, and also by the older candidate who already had serious pride and power issues from being a slave. Obi-Wan simply did not understand the psych differences soon enough considering his Dad just died a brutal death in his arms. You also did not even mention other major influencers like the 'kindly grandfather' role Palpatine played in exacerbating existing issues in your essay. With all thise factors, Obi-Wan took on far more guilt for the 10% responsibility that was really his doing. Even Padme should have a piece because a peace lover helped cover up the slaughter on Tatooine that should have been a wakeup call that something was wrong with the sweet little boy- AND she clearly hadn't made it clear that destroying the republic and kiling kids was very wrong actions before it got to the end...

[@newmod1974]

Excellent video, Thor!you know these characters SO well!

[@104razgriz]

Love your videos excellent work keep it coming.

[@jamieb3515]

Great video! As always, u made me see Star Wars in a whole new light

[@markuhler2664]

Fantastic review. Insightful to Obi-wan's statement in the duel & his reflection afterwards. I would say, though, while Obi-wan made mistakes Anikin is fully responsible for his own fall. The Jedi may have fallen away from the force but the teachings were still there & while not perfect, Obi-wan was probably the best possible master alive for Anikin. & I think Qui Jon (have to watch your video on him) was prideful in his refusal to take a Council chair. There was a story, by Asimov I think, about two young idealistic men who wanted to fix their corrupt country. One did a lot of protesting in rebelling, landing himself in jail, becoming a large face for the movement and the other join the bureaucracy, worked his way up the ladder, making policy changes everywhere he could, and he was the one who actually reformed the government. Debatable I know, but that's the difference between Obi-Wan and Qui Jon.

[@Leppalimes]

Qui-Gon should have reached out to Luke when Luke was falling back into the dogmatic way of the Jedi that Obi-Wan and Yoda taught him. The two almost pushed Luke into the same exact trap that led to Anakin's fall. Luke was bent on restoring the Jedi to what they had written down which is part of why he failed with Ben - if Luke was more concerned about trusting himself and the will of the force, rather than trusting the writings of the Jedi, he could have prevented the First Order.

[@jandurinik4654]

Simple and yet eye-opening explanation.

[@scottcarver7393]

This was a really awesome video Thor. I never realized how ambitious and prideful Anakin was in E1. TLJ hurt many of us, and you spent a lot of time trying to sway people into realizing how and why it damaged the franchise. Unlike many others who just trash and trash, your points are valid, sound, and portrayed respectfully. You are a true master of Star Wars lore. It's videos like this that keep Star Wars alive for me. I truly hope that one day lucasfilm stumbles upon you and gives you the job of your dreams so that everyone in the world may benefit from your love of this franchise.

[@cashernandes1]

FINALLY a proper critical analysis of these movies.

[@masonpyle5929]

Why Obi-Wan failed Anakin- Obi-wan was never able to teach him about the greatness of having the High Ground.

[@ferblancart8669]

This video has more insights in the first 3minutes than the last one of pop culture detective. Subscribed

[@philipatkinson843]

This is dead on my friend. Great video and analysis.

[@mikeb.46]

If we're going with that train of thought, we must also consider that Obi-Wan really didn't learn anything. As you said at the end, he saw Luke as HIS redemption. So, Luke failing to become the Jedi Master that we all wanted makes sense. He was used as a pawn. This is why I actually like the direction it went in TLJ. He saw that the Jedi cannot let things happen naturally, they always have to intervene. I know many of your viewers will tend to disagree, but would like your thoughts on this matter.

[@nettewilson853]

Great analysis.

[@DCUniverse816]

Another reason why Kenobi failed was because he was too young and inexperienced man who was still coming into his own when he promise train Anakin (thus is why he ended up being more of a big brother figure rather than a much needed father figure for Anakin)

[@Makise3]

I couldn’t agree more. Great video!

[@edoboleyn]

Great video! This makes me appreciate Ahsoka even more, as well? Hard to articulate why...

[@wwmandalore]

Obi-Wan's weakness was love. "Yoda had said it, flat out: 'Allow such attachments to pass out of one's life, a Jedi must', but Obi-Wan has never let himself understand. He had argued for Anakin, made excuses, covered for him again and again and again; all the while this attachment he denied even feeling had blinded him to the dark path his best friend walked." Revenge of the Sith novelization, pg403 One of the greatest of life's foes is not the army outside your gates, but rather the treachery of those close to our hearts.

[@mikeberne3127]

Most impressive... As always.

[@jaxter6610]

One major thing which obiwan got wrong was he allowed anakin to rescue him on more than one occasion, allowing anakin to believe him self superior to his teacher. Then when obiwan was placed on the council, anakin would again think himself superior to the council, since he was greater than his previous master who was placed there. It was anakin’s cockiness which allowed himself to be overtaken by the dark side as he believed himself superior to all others

[@MMZERO9]

This reminds me of something a colleague of mine once said about how Kenobi was a Jedi Council yes man, hence why he ended up on the Council.

[@jordanryanfilmmaking]

I think Obi Wan was just blind to what Anakin was becoming. He was so caught up in training the chosen one that he couldn’t see the issues.

[@danieldosso2455]

I'd imagine that the will of the force wanted Obi-Wan to fail in training Anakin so that through Anakin the force can bring justice to a lost Jedi Order and wipe the slate clean as it were, but allow options for Obi-Wan/Yoda/Luke/Leia or others to prevent the force from falling out of balance the other way, giving the galaxy too much darkness

[@unluckyme213]

in other words, Obi Wan got lost after Qui-Gon's death and was afraid to mess up while training Anakin.

[@longgone6312]

I like your veiw points and very much agree with it

[@KN_Dingowarrior]

Obi'Wan was the Master Anikan *Wanted,* but Not the Master that he *Needed.*

[@KN_Dingowarrior]

Just to add something else. People often mistaken with Feeling Good with that of Being Good. Take for example, You start Taking drugs because the person your with makes you feel good and you want to fit in. At the end of the day, Anyone with working brain can see this is nothing as but a Tragedy born of foolishness. I felt this line of logic brings home Anikan's plight to that of a person's Everyday life. If something Feels Good, Take a step back and see if someone is manipulating you... That person could very well be the person in the Mirror.

[@horizonbrave1533]

While I can see the argument that Obi Wan "failed" I'd say it's more so that There were...a ton of outside forces playing against any chance of ObiWan keeping anakin on the straight and narrow. It was doomed to fail... ObiWan's admission of "I have failed you" i see it more of an admission to himself and as a way to cope with what just transpired. I don't think anyone even QuiGon could have prevented what happened as it it was just a perfect storm of malignant forces that came together to pull Anakin in. Obi Wan was front and center and had the most hand in keeping Anakin straight, but as a Jedi and a teacher, there wasn't much more he could do as a single man. Far too many distractions at the time...by design of course...

[@OtherWorldExplorers]

As I watch more and more reviews like this my opinion of the prequels is changing for the better. The subtle details I overlooked, that add to the richness of SW just seem to keep popping up. I hope that JJ is watching videos likes these to rescue (I see it as a rescue effort for SW-IX) SW from being over politicized and return it to deep meaning. Deconstructing SW is what we do between movies that makes us ache for the next installment. Well done Thor Skywalker

[@backchat8086]

Great vid, ty

[@IR240474]

Great video !!!! - George when making this movie knew that children that develop under bad conditions at early development (Like being a slave) Then to be taken away from the only carer he had that loved him to be brought to an institution that killed people, you can understand that he didn't have a strong mental health to start with. ADHD.

[@dazdavis7896]

Most of that blame falls on Palpatine. Yea a ton of if falls on Anakin himself, and Obi-Wan as well, but he was manipulated by Palpatine from the time he was 14 years old. A lot of the reason he was the way he was by Ep2 had a lot to do with him feeding Anakin’s ambitions, and putting a ton of those ideas in his head himself, albeit subliminally, half the time without Anakin even realizing what was going on until the very end of ROTS when he rises up from the operating table. He realizes far too late what had happened all along. That “there was no dragon” , if you’ve read the film novelization you know the passage im talking about. It’s my favorite line of all, and it signifies perfectly that he’s finally realized what’s happened over the last 10 years, from the time he met Palpatine, to everything that had happened to him largely because of it. And realizes it all too late after the damage had been done.

[@ReachingHigher001]

Interesting point. I actually learned something from this.

[@nightside8056]

So if Jinn was more "in tune" with the force than other Jedi, wouldn't it have been easier for him to sense the presence of the Sith that was hiding right under their nose? Or is that a non-factor?

[@OGStarwars]

Raedar Targaryen very good point. I think people put too much faith in quigon.

[@thorskywalker]

A few things to keep in mind is that, most likely, Qui-Gon only encountered Palpatine one time... and that was when he arrived on Coruscant with Anakin. Another thing to keep in mind is that Palpatine was clearly a master of concealment. Yes, the Jedi of the Prequel era were losing their ability to use the Force, but being able to sit in the same room with Yoda, Windu, and other Jedi still meant that Palpatine was clearly really good at hiding his true identity.

[@j.avance9031]

I agree that Obiwan played a huge part in the down fall, but I think that it was the Clone Wars itself that really dragged Anakin further down that dark path. Throughout the majority of his adult life all Anakin knew was war. Moving from battle to battle, and witnessing untold millions of deaths like it was nothing. If you watch the Clone Wars show slowly Anakin becomes darker and darker as the Clone Wars progresses. He becomes disillusioned with the Jedi Council trusting only Palpatine, and the jedi giving him his own padawan whenever they knew he had issues with obsession and letting people go didn't help! Whenever he saw how the Jedi treated Ahsoka it really changed him. Once you see all that happened in the Clone Wars, and all he did it really helps you empathize with him in Revenge of the Sith in my opinion. Though its still a mediocre movie.

[@noakhstrelec8478]

Once Ahsoka left, he got worried padme would do the same, so he became paranoid, and with Ahsoka gone, he more or less, felt abandoned or lonely, so he didn't want to loose padme and would do whatever to keep her, and in the end we know obi wan And Ahsoka have there regrets with there actions leaving him

[@sarveshnathan7559]

ROTS was GOAT not mediocre

[@MrMarinus18]

I think the prequels really have a lot of room for interpretation and that's why they are so interesting.

[@ShamanMcLamie]

I read an essay about how Obi wan's training of Anakin vs that of Luke were very different. Obi wan was very critical and overbearing which made Anakin a former slave who wanted to be free, feel constrained and suffocated. When he fails he can't help, but blame others for holding him back. Where as with Luke he simply offered guidance and let him make his own decisions. This gave Luke a far greater sense of freedom and responsibility than Anakin and when he did fail he saw it was his own doing, and a lesson for self improvement.

[@darthauthorone6329]

Obi-Wan's failure as a teacher was also a failure on the part of the Jedi council. They knew that training a boy as old as Anakin would be a violation of the policies. Training the boy before they had properly raised him at the Jedi temple left him unprepared because he was so emotional and had a strong relationship with his mother and Padme. They basically knew it would be hard for Anakin to learn and practice the Jedi ways. Basically, everything Yoda said about Anakin happened (Much fear in you there is. Fear leads to anger and anger leads to suffering). The council's first mistake was in allowing the boy to be trained. The second, and this is really the more important one, they allowed the freshly knighted Obi-Wan to be his teacher. Obi-Wan had only just begun being a Jedi Knight. He didn't have the experience to teach and he was certainly unprepared to handle Anakin who was older and more powerful than any other initiate. Anakin needed a Jedi Master to teach him, not a newly knighted Obi-Wan who had just lost his own Master and apparently struck down a Sith Lord. He had not even taken and passed his Jedi trials to be a Jedi (this is the fault of the Jedi Council) they knighted him because he appeared to have killed the Sith Lord Maul. Qui Gon was up for the challenge of teaching Anakin. He was experienced as a Jedi and as a teacher. I would say that Dooku and Yoda also were good enough teachers to manage Anakin's apprenticeship. Obi-Wan was just a well intending guy who wanted to honor his dying master's last request to teach Anakin the ways of the Jedi, something he believed in but was unprepared for. The oversites and mistakes he made prepared Anakin not just to become a jedi but a Sith as well.

[@phildicks4721]

In my mind it was the entire Jedi Council that failed, not just Anakin, but all Jedi. They were cloistered apart from the Galaxy. Their teaching was stagnated and hidebound. They rejected anything not in the traditional way. Yoda, and to a lesser extent Mace Windu, were the worst offenders of this on the council.

[@jasonleetaiwan]

You can see in the Clone Wars series that Anakin does not really like abiding by some of the Jedi rules and prefers to do whatever it takes to get results making him susceptible to doing whatever it takes to save his wife and unborn child. Obi-Wan perhaps didn't fully understand Anakin, but he couldn't change Anakin's outlook on life.

[@FREEDOMFORUKRAINE2024]

Last time I was this early Luke Skywalker was still alive 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@shermanngjazz]

Obi Wan was a great partner with Anakin when on missions, but not a great master. They're like brothers after all.

[@Icesong]

"I think it is obvious that Qui-Gon was wrong in Episode I and made a dangerous decision." - George Lucas

[@meghandavis7370]

Well said

[@smashtv6408]

Wow now I understand why anakin blames obiwan

[@MS-fh4sz]

Now the short version of why Anakin fell to the dark side. The Jedi council broke their own code. And betrayed and failed Anakin while doing it. And Obiwan broke the brocode. And failed Anakin by doing that. That is how Obiwan failed Anakin. See Episode 3 council scene. And scene right after it.

[@itsthemumu8585]

I honestly think one of Obi-Wan’s greatest failings was being on the council. Not that specifically, but it created a lot more problems by him being a part of that group. Anakin never loved the council from what we can tell in the film’s, and the closer we get to ROTS, we see how much the council frustrates Anakin and how he feels they are treating him like a pawn. He’s kept from the undercover mission that Obi-Wan undertook in the Clone Wars where he faked his death, and Anakin feels cheated and lied to, he doesn’t trust the council anymore and feels like they don’t trust him either. Since Obi-Wan is on that council, it visibly makes him feel distant from his best friend, almost like having a best friend you knew since kindergarten who started hanging with the jocks in high school, who turn a blind eye to you. It happens again in ROTS, when Anakin is asked to spy on the Chancellor, someone he trusts and who has been kind to him all the time he’s known him, something Obi-Wan was failing to do at this time. He even says to Padmé “Obi-Wan and the council don’t trust me.” And that’s probably the biggest reason why Anakin fell only days later. Btw this video made me want to watch the prequels again (it’s been a while lol)

[@mjkalasky2775]

He also sat back and let Anakin tap into the Dark Side while questioning prisoners and whatnot, and faked his death without telling Anakin to try and make such a thing more convincing to Dooku.

[@JsscRchlDrsy]

this is brilliant.

[@heathbar1011]

I believe the early death of Qui-Gon Jinn was the greatest loss for the future of both Obi-Wan and Anakin. It gave Obi-Wan an incredible burden right away. Gui-Gon saw the potential in Anakin but he was also hesitant. He had decided he could carry the burden of Anakin's training and felt that Obi-Wan was ready to move on from apprenticeship. In a way, Gui-Gon failed Obi-Wan in his dying breath by wanting him to be the one to train Anakin. And let's not forget that Dooku was Qui-Gon's Master. This is not to say that Qui-Gon wasn't one of the best examples of a Jedi but that this might be where some of Obi-Wan's ambitions for being on the Jedi Council came from. Cool topic Thor, I'm liking this 👍

[@user-kz3ik7pm7o]

Anakin Skywalker was never the chosen one. I often wonder if it was Rae, but after seeing other star wars characters, the question is stronger than ever.

[@johnhonovich6832]

Great Video . On another level of understanding human nature and the Jedi code.This analysis also underscores why Luke's Character in The Last Jedi is contrary to the way Luke was in Return of the Jedi . Obi Wan had corrected his mistake with Vader in Luke 's understanding and training . He didn't turn to the dark side against a far worse foe but did in the Last Jedi ?Total waste of story and why many fan's hated TLJ .

[@anthonycole1373]

very good observation. ?

[@donaldc2399]

Hey Thor, been a big fan of your videos, and this one popped up recently. That’s five years old. Don’t take this the wrong way, but you sound so much younger in this video than your current ones. But as always, your context is awesome. Please keep talking Star Wars.

[@PragmaticOptimist_N7]

Seems Very plausible 👍🏾👍🏾

[@tyshekka]

All good points.

[@ShadowCritias]

In my point of view the reason why he said "I failed you" it's because he failed to be a father figure that Anakin needed, Dave Filoni once says, "Obi Wan is not the father figure that Anakin needed, he's just a brother figure to Anakin. Anakin never have a father in his life" Qui Gon wants to take Anakin as his new Padawan to be a father figure for Anakin but Qui Gon died, Palpatine became a father figure & leads Anakin to the Dark Side, he manipulated Anakin. That's why Obi Wan failed to be, the one thing Anakin needed in his life, a Father, not only that he failed to his Master's promise, & Palpatine took that title & Anakin away from him.

[@olivermichael7152]

I think one reason Obi-wan thought he failed was because he thought about how qui-gon(his master) would’ve reacted towards anikans situation, he did the opposite of what his master taught him, he followed orders blindly without feelings involved. Just my thoughts

[@superdewott3209]

To be fair, Obiwan was working with a man who has a tendency to angst and has anger issues. Anakin should have seen a therapist long ago, if such a thing exists in the star wars universe. I don't remember one mentioned in the books off the top of my head.

[@Sirvalorsax]

We get the impression that the Jedi have used Anakin instead of welcomed him. They didn't just fail Anakin but they failed to balance the force by using him this way. Its almost as if Anakin could see that there was something inherently wrong but was too blinded by the Jedi's misguided attempt to control him. Even with the "new" star wars, there is the idea of the force balancing itself.

[@cameonvassilas5715]

True that man, true that

[@JustAnotherAccount8]

there was no one person to blame here, it was several factors that led to Anakin's downfall. For instance, there was: - Padme insisting on following Qui-Gon on Tatooine which led to Anakin meeting her and becoming semi-obsessed - The Jedi council's arrogance - The Jedi way of life (it's too restricting, it makes you ignore/suppress basic human emotions) - Qui-Gon for entrusting Obi-Wan too much (he could have said "promise me you'll convince the Jedi council to train Anakin" instead of insisting Obi-Wan do it himself) - Obi-Wan not being ready to take on an apprentice Among other things

[@lordmaul7278]

Very great analysis.

[@Maikigai]

One could argue that it was largely Padme’s fault. Ironically, love drove him to hate.