He Was an Anti-Racist Vegan Radical... in 1738

In this episode of The Abolitionists, let's explore the extraordinary life and mind of Benjamin Lay, the early 18th century Quaker dwarf who has the distinction of being both the first revolutionary abolitionist and the first animal rights activist in American history.
Learn more about Pro-Animal Future's mission to end the worst forms of animal cruelty in our society ► proanimal.org/
All ad revenue this video makes in its first month will go to Luvin Arms Animal Sanctuary, a forever home for animals rescued from the meat industry ► luvinarms.org/
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Original Music by Dillon DeRosa ► dillonderosa.com/
Thumbnail art by Ben Wickey ► / ben_wickey
~REFERENCES~
[1] Marcus Rediker. The Fearless Benjamin Lay: The Quaker Dwarf Who Became the First Revolutionary Abolitionist (2017). Beacon Press, Page 11-25
[2] Benjamin Lay. All Slave-Keepers That Keep the Innocent in Bondage, Apostates (1738). Printed [by Benjamin Franklin] for the Author, Page iii
[3] Lay, Page 131-132
[4] Lay, Page 55
[5] Rediker, Page 111
[6] Rediker, Page 30-51
[7] Lay, Page 32-45
[8] Lay, Page 20-22
[9] Rediker, Page 61-70
[10] Rediker, Page 84-93
[11] Lay, Page 43-44
[12] Rediker, Page 146
[13] Rediker, Page 1-2
[14] The Friend: A Religious and Literary Journal. Volume XXIX (1856). Printed by Robb, Pile & Melroy, Page 220
[15] Rediker, Page 112-116
[16] Roger Crab. The English Hermit or Wonder of This Age (1655). Printed in Pope’s Head Alley and at the Exchange, Page i-15
[17] Thomas Tryon. A Way to Health, Long Life, and Happiness (1691 Edition). Printed by H.C. for R. Baldwin near the Oxford Arms on Warwick Lane, Page 367-382
[18] Avery Yale Kamila. “Vegan Kitchen: Americans have been enjoying nut milk and nut butter for at least 4 centuries” (2020). Portland Press Herald www.pressheral...
[19] Geoffrey Plank. “‘The Flame of Life Was Kindled in All Animal and Sensitive Creatures’: One Quaker Colonist’s View of Animal Life.” Church History 76, no. 3 (2007): 569-90. www.jstor.org/s....
[20] Jonathan D. Sassi. “With a Little Help from the Friends: The Quaker and Tactical Contexts of Anthony Benezet’s Abolitionist Publishing.” The Pennsylvania Magazine of History and Biography 135, no. 1 (2011): 33-71. doi.org/10.521...
[21] Rediker, Page 120, 138

[@AtunSheiFilms]

Learn more about Pro-Animal Future's mission to end the worst forms of animal cruelty in our society ► proanimal.org/ All ad revenue this video makes in its first month will go to Luvin Arms Animal Sanctuary, a forever home for animals rescued from the meat industry ► luvinarms.org/

[@kinghenryxl1747]

I admire your passion for history. Your channel deserves 100 MILLION followers

[@LeafHuntress]

As this is an electoral cause in the USA, i'm thinking that i as an European cannot give money to it? Hoping it will succeed though! Goodness, i already was completely enamoured with you & now you do this... 😍 Greetings from someone who signed for & donated to the first political Party of the Animals in the world.

[@gabe20244]

@@LeafHuntress Heh, you'd be surprised. I would check out the org doing it and see if you can. It is likely ran through a private entity, and if so, you can probably give money to that entity instead. Try to contact them.

[@L.Pondera]

Cruelty free meat just taste better and is better for you. The prices are already high, it sure isn't saving that much money for the consumer, clearly it's not right for anyone.

[@jakegarvin7634]

Idk..your dad's house?

[@chrisball3778]

Instantly one of my favourite historical figures. The image of a four foot tall bearded man in a fake military uniform invading a church with a sword, impaling a book and spraying Quaker slavers with fake blood to shame them into renouncing their sinful ways is gonna stay with me.

[@micuu1]

Fucking legend

[@johnjones_1501]

There is also an excellent episode of the podcast "The Dollop" about him. While the Dollop does make mistakes, especially, as Dave Anthony, the lead on the show admits, they sometimes made the mistake of limiting their research to a single book in their earlier episodes, it is a fun way to learn about history. BTW, if AtunSheiFilms has a podcast, I am totally listening.

[@chrisball3778]

@@johnjones_1501 Hopefully I remember to look that up.

[@artenstien7100]

That's a Robert Eggers film pitch if I've seen one.

[@Kari.F.]

Yep. Unforgettable guy!

[@willlee6095]

“All Slavekeepers Apostates” is such a badass title. Hearing about his direct action, public protest, and interpersonal machinations really connect this man to the deep and genuine strangeness of the prophets in the Biblical tradition.

[@Ashalmawia]

I think it's an abridged title "All Slave-Keepers ..., Apostates ...". The full title is rather long: All Slave-keepers That Keep the Innocent in Bondage, Apostates Pretending to lay Claim to the Pure & Holy Christian Religion; of What Congregation so Ever; but Especially in Their Ministers

[@definitelynotcole]

Yes the only thing worse than a slave keeper, an atheist...

[@francescafrancesca3554]

Yes!!!

[@CrypticCocktails]

ACAB

[@fpcooper95]

I read this as the music at the end got loud and really felt it 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾😂😂😂❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥

[@hello2judas807]

God, I wish I was as unapologetically based as that dude was He really set a standard that even a lot of modern people fail to surpass

[@Adonnus100]

I have at certain times had the vague urge to treat animal eaters the same as slave owners, but stop myself for the main reason that you will have no friends that way and will constantly be in some kind of miserable struggle of me against the world, which, even if you think you are right, will just make you alone and miserable. So, in essence, I would have to be much more unfathomably based to simply not care about any of that, for example as based as Benjamin Lay.

[@CrazyCody3459]

@@Adonnus100 ah, yes, carnivores and slave owners. practically the same from a moral standpoint. because, as we all know, cooking and eating a dead animal is just as evil as owning a human life. totally.

[@Adonnus100]

@@CrazyCody3459 That must sound very different to you, in practice, if this were 1700, you would not see such a massive moral difference between those two things. So it is very subjective.

[@CrazyCody3459]

@@Adonnus100 the thing is, it is not the 1700's anymore, and it is just as "subjective" as comparing someone who jaywalks with a serial killer.

[@Adonnus100]

@@CrazyCody3459 No, that is a wrong comparison. You see, it is now the 2000s, and in the 2300s your understanding of these things might well be seen as unethical. Walking across a street does not harm anybody. Serial killing does. Animal agriculture causes immense harm as does slavery. So you see how flawed this comparison you've drawn is.

[@jfu5222]

"Travel, the best cure for bigotry", an excellent point. In my life, I've primarily encountered ignorant, generational racism. I grew up around it and by leaving home found a way to break the cycle. Thanks Andy!

[@crispy7499]

Was kinda transphobic. Met a trans person. Immediately became less transphobic. Its true lol

[@Jetstoanywhere]

travel to Somalia alone

[@jfu5222]

@@Jetstoanywhere You gave yourself a thumbs up! What a loser, why don't you take your racist shit and go back to your mom's basement.

[@publichearing8536]

Yeah that blanket statement is totally right, the seafarers of old would totally agree, or at least order their incredibly diverse array of galley rowers to tell you how transnational respect and equity is a huge part of their life.

[@FloatingErgonaut]

​@@publichearing8536Way to miss the point, genius. He is clearly talking about modern life. You know, planes, buses, taxis? Not boats and raiding?

[@m1n3craftPCtut0r1al]

When you were talking about how Lay would regret the whippings for the rest of his life I couldn’t help but cry. Proof perfect that a good man will do awful things in an awful society. I want to weep for the millions that are harmed now due to that fact.

[@keptrepublic]

"the early 18th century Quaker dwarf " is my new favorite description of a colonial age activist.

[@Maxibon2007]

To the tunes of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

[@nxtvim2521]

​@@Maxibon2007"heroes with a handicap, [no racial] power"

[@ernstthalmann4306]

Seems like a Pixar movie

[@TheCoCAmbassador]

I certainly wouldn't have been a racist in 1738.... because I'd be dead at age 2 due to diabetes.

[@thecoolbyzantine24]

skill issue imagine not having perfect aryan gigachad genes (joke)

[@happycamperds9917]

I thought type 1 diabetes symptoms onset in the early teens if untreated. Do you have a different kind?

[@hollydavis6294]

@@happycamperds9917 it starts as early as 4. I was diagnosed at 15 and they called it MODY (maturity-onset diabetes of the young)

[@mid1429]

Most people would die in childhood

[@LyingSpigot]

That ignores the point of the thought question. Assuming you lived a full life in the 1700s would you have been a racist?

[@taybaytime]

“He should be more accommodating to slave owners. His protests would be more effective if they were less extreme and less disruptive.” NOW WHERE HAVE I HEARD AN ARGUMENT LIKE THIS BEFORE HMM? Goes to show that the subject changes but the capitulation never does

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

To a bigot any form of anti-bigotry is 'too extreme'.

[@pluemas]

Remember, it doesn't matter if it's not effective to convince people who already believe in a bigoted or prejudiced cause. In all likelihood, they will never change their mind. Loud opposition, on the other hand, may let people know that others disagree to that default.

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

@@pluemas Indeed. Also, sometimes arguing with a bigot isn't about trying to convince them, it's about the undecided and moderates that are listening.

[@bluebitproductions2836]

Note that he never did anything violent, never commited arson, etc. There is such a thing as going too far, he just never did it. He was justly furious and direct, but never did anything immoral.

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

@@bluebitproductions2836 And yet people still said he was too extreme, thus proving the point that no level of protest is seen as acceptable to the target of that protest.

[@DzzO]

That kidnapping argument was based as f*ck.

[@MadisonPaige]

Lay was clean outta fucks 😂

[@Thebotulism]

Quakers often get overlooked in America, but I've heard tons of cool stories about Quakers who fought like Benjamin Lay.

[@eyesofthecervino3366]

Don't apologize for the ending. Whether you're a vegan or not, factory farms are inexcusable and have got to go. I'm losing my heart for this edit :c but, edit to add: a lot of y'all are forgetting that 1. Beans exist, and are a food staple in many different cultures 2. The global south exists, and 3. Factory farms contribute to antibiotic resistant bacteria, zoonotic plagues, and global warming, all of which disproportionately affect poorer people and poorer nations, and one of which is actually just gonna make huge swathes of the world uninhabitable. Insisting you can contribute to problems that are currently killing poorer people and poorer nations, so that you won't have to eat the way they do, is not the own you think it is. And thinking you should stop it -- not even necessarily stop eating meat, just . . . raise your own chickens, or be willing to eat meat less frequently, if that's what it takes to be able to afford it to be raised sustainably . . . this is not a privileged perspective. Caring about human lives over access to a continuous stream of cheap chicken tenders is not the privileged position here.

[@noviatoria2436]

+++ Indigenous people ate meat sustainably without factory farms or slaughterhouses for thousands of years before we got here. It's not meat eating itself that's the problem, it's white cishetero patriarchal capitalism, like always

[@maureenj.odonnell4438]

Amen.

[@Nikolapoleon]

As a non-vegan myself, I'm inclined to agree, but I'm also curious about what the ethical way to slaughter animals is. I work at a museum/farm that raises beef cattle, and we raise them very well. I'm proud, in fact, of the conditions they live under. However, when they reach the appropriate age, they are taken to a slaughterhouse which is, to my knowledge, more or less like any other. I can't imagine we would ever have the facilities to properly slaughter AND process them here, on the farm, so if the slaughterhouse shuts down, where does that leave us?

[@user-to9ge8ii9n]

Progress, not perfection. I'm glad there are so many animals that live lovely lives with your help, even if the ending is a bit gruesome -- sadly better than many of us get. ❤

[@juliagoetia]

​@@NikolapoleonSlaughter can never be ethical. If ethics are your concern you either stop engaging in unnecessary systemic violence, or you just make peace with the cognitive dissonance.

[@Palducks]

Plant Milk was a thing in Europe too, esp Almond Milk. There are medieval recipes that include it. So it really isn't that wide of a leap that Benjamin drank something akin to that, with almond milk being something that was utilized in christian fasting.

[@gabrielchristy7341]

And given the prevalence of Chestnuts in the region, and their use as a staple crop by the Lenape, I think it's quite possible he was making chestnut milk.

[@artifalse]

@@gabrielchristy7341CHESTnut milk 🤨. veganism debunked ‼️ /s

[@HuckleberryHim]

Benjamin Franklin advocated for Americans to eat tofu, actual fact

[@JaneAustenAteMyCat]

Yes, almond milk was definitely a thing in Tudor England

[@solo-mons]

@@HuckleberryHimyo that’s so cool imma steal that fact for the future

[@isegoriaparrhesia]

You are, by more than a mile, one of my favorite content creators. I gush, but the topics you explore more than align with my own interests: New England colonial history, early modern transatlantic English history, 17th century socio-religious radicalism, the English Civil Wars, the American Civil War, and now Abolitionism. Benjamin Lay was truly a man ahead of his time and no stranger to self-sacrifice in service of his noble ideals. I gave a lecture on The Quaker Comet many years ago to a group of university students. I only wish your creative exploration of Benjamin's life and times was available back then!

[@jonathanrich9281]

This dude had a real non-violent version of John Brown’s energy, the kind of “I’m going to take this extremely progressive stance and then go live my values decades ahead of my time” vibe.

[@suzannebolin3710]

Best shirt I Saw in person,"I won't argue with people John Brown would have shot." I was impressed.

[@SnarkyMarx]

@@suzannebolin3710 I see this meme almost daily in leftist circles on Instagram

[@WolfgangDoghouse]

“Many of us like to ask ourselves, "What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing gen•cide?" The answer is, you're doing it. Right now.” ― Aaron Bushnell

[@AV-we6wo]

That hurt. Because I think it's true. I guess I have to thank you for making me feel uncomfortable.

[@WolfgangDoghouse]

@@AV-we6wo If we want to bring the good things we want to see in the world, we have to look inwards - and that's uncomfortable because it exposes our own accountability. Aaron was a hero and we can only aspire to be as principled as he was and not let his sacrifice go in vain. Thank you. ❤️

[@francisdec1615]

Yes, people talk about how disgusting the Germans were for being Nazis or at least just passively accepting what the Nazis did, but most Russians are just like that in this very moment that I type this. Almost no one protests the war in Ukraine or the regime itself. Most people are cowards and conformists. That's the bitter truth.

[@Tofu_va_Bien]

@@francisdec1615 What are you talking about? There are plenty of Russians who've protested the war, but the government has cracked down on them. It's the same in Ukraine, conscientious objectors are being jailed and/or sent to the front. It's easy talk when it's not your life on the line.

[@francisdec1615]

@@Tofu_va_Bien Haha, among other things I have been to jail and an insane asylum for threatening to kill cops and jurors. Had nothing to do with national politics, though, I was innocently convicted for a crime I didn't commit, and I didn't take that lightly. If 10000 Russians out of 140 millions are protesting, most people are indeed complacent.

[@AnythingMachine]

My man was the moral philosophy equivalent of Leonardo da Vinci

[@Bildgesmythe]

Well said

[@augustotto4312]

Seriously? The philosophy is thousands of years old.

[@PrimusGladius]

​@@augustotto4312I think the compliment has less to do with the age of the ideas and more to do with how consistent and robust one is with them

[@augustotto4312]

@PrimusGladius he says "equivalent of Leonardo da Vinci" clearly talking about his revolutionary ideas not his steadfastness.

[@augustotto4312]

@PrimusGladius socrates would be a better equivalent, he was executed for his ideas, he even refused rescue because he was consistent with his philosophy

[@haraldisdead]

A history youtuber risks everything by advocating for veganism on his platform. Respect.

[@illerac84]

How’s that?

[@isaacgonzalez4879]

@@illerac84I would say it’s because many more “centrist” leaning general audiences expect of any historian to be almost perfectly unbiased. And that you’re somehow less of a historian if ever you talk of your own personal thoughts and messages from your media.

[@8xottox8]

@@haraldisdead I feel like after the Ravenous overanalysis every militant meathead would have left. The antifa flags and whatnot in the background are also not uh, "centrist friendly". 😅

[@gmodrules123456789]

Because Veganism is a repugnant, anti-human ideology rooted in the same kind of idealism that gave rise to Nazism. I am only being slightly hyperbolic. Any historian operating on idealist grounds needs to be scrutinized at the minimum.

[@theothertonydutch]

@@isaacgonzalez4879 Post-modern history is all about recognizing and embracing the bias because it is about gathering different points of view.

[@aidanfarnan4683]

My god that bit with the book filed with fake blood is just metal as fuck. 10/10

[@nastropc]

11/10. Benjamin Lay goes to eleven.

[@anthonyhayes1267]

I might have to reenact it

[@HUSoldier66]

Benjamin Lay would've been a huge Cattle Decapitation fan, no question

[@johnbarker2650]

I like how you said filed, like he filed the blood into the book not filled or full. The blood is paperwork and must be filed in alphabetical order!!!

[@user-burner]

It should be mentioned the book was the bible

[@kitlynmelby5995]

Literally welled up when you said that the name you would be donating under would be Benjamin Lay.

[@seasidescott]

Glad you brought up that the meat industry is major user of undocumented workers. I've been at the border and hung out with dozens of young men headed north to catch the company buses after sneaking past border guards paid by the companies to look the other way. People would think twice before bitchin about immigrants if they knew their meat prices would drastically increase without them. But the companies want more than cheap labor; they want guaranteed non-union workers that will never ask for sick days or health care.

[@sanniepstein4835]

If we actually need laborers, they should let in openly and legally, after democratic debate. The illegal invasions drive rents up and wages down, and stress the most vulnerable communities, not the exploiters of cheap labor. Those who "bitch" know what's going on and want it to stop.

[@perfidy1103]

I'm not religious, but if it turns out i am wrong, I hope that Lay is looking down from whatever afterlife he is in and is pleased to see that African slavery was, eventually, abolished. I also suspect he would be angry about me issues that he couldn't even have imagined in his time

[@dougthedonkey1805]

Ben watching the south invent sharecropping immediately afterwards like “god damn it…”

[@perfidy1103]

@@dougthedonkey1805 time to write another book: All Sharecroppers That Keep the Innocent in Bondage: Apostates

[@tj-co9go]

he is still displeased and knows slavery has not perished, only changed form

[@sanniepstein4835]

​@@tj-co9goor simply location. It is widespread in Africa.

[@tj-co9go]

@@sanniepstein4835 as it was during his day, yes

[@gabrielhlushko312]

Listening to all this it makes me wonder why i havent heard of these two before. I lack the words describe what the words of this long dead man make me feel. He was a real one.

[@przemo7565]

1 day ago? How tf? HOW?!

[@wolflegion_]

@@przemo7565early release for patrons. How do people still not know about this? 😂

[@CybernerdShua]

​​@@przemo7565Sometimes channel members get early access. Not sure if Arun-Shei does the same for his channel members, but it's my best guess. Edit: I just realized he has no channel membership. My bad.

[@HansMisra]

@@przemo7565 lmao wtf

[@PrimusGladius]

​@@przemo7565Patreon members get to view his videos a few days early

[@8xottox8]

Nah I'm built different. I totally would have been an abolitionist anti-racist back in the 1700's despite it taking me until my mid twenties irl to admit that racism and sexism are still real in the 2020's.

[@otakunthevegan4206]

Year's ago when I was an edgy teen, I held opinions on groups of people who had never done me any wrong, one day many years ago I woke up and realized something, I was hating people who have never wronged me and I changed my ways.

[@JohnCollins-vy4nf]

​@@otakunthevegan4206Counterpoint, the amount of people who think gypsies should be deported is directly proportional to the amount of them in an area.

[@redadmiralofvalyria867]

​@otakunthevegan4206 It's rather tragic when it's not even "they wronged me in some way/shape/form" rather than putting an ENTIRE GROUP on a "hate list" It's good that u grew out of it before it controlled your life(and controlled the rest)

[@TecHippy]

I take great pride in the fact that I would have been too poor to afford to own slaves and would therefore become insufferably abolitionist to distract from that fact

[@happycamperds9917]

You see I wouldn't have been racist because I would have been dead from chronic illness.

[@briand.6359]

The natives weren't the only ones who knew about nut milks. Even ignoring Asia and the Middle East, Europeans knew about them at least as far back as 'The Forme of Cury' a famous cookbook published in 1390, which used almond milk in a number of recipes. So it must have been well-known by then. I think it's very reasonable for Benjamin to have known about nut milks.

[@s3dliw]

Fellow tasting history enjoyed

[@Xidnaf]

holy cow, i had no idea about any of this, what a great video. i happen to live in denver so i just signed with pro animal future. let's get this done.

[@Boconnor401.]

Holy crap it’s you!

[@DebugYourBrain]

This video legit gave me chills. Benjamin Lay, what an absolute fucking legend.

[@bb9a]

Nice to see some familiar names in the comments. The parasocial relationship grows😅

[@GaltarDude1138]

Someone call Peter Dinklage, because that biopic sounds fucking cool

[@HerbaSanitas-zq1su]

I had the same thought, even checked if they where about the same height, they are!

[@LeafHuntress]

Oooooh! I bet he'd love that if he knew about it!

[@johannesdecorte434]

Peter Dinklage is a vegan punk rocker as well. A match made in heaven if I ever saw one.

[@SgtKaneGunlock]

honestly i think Warwick Davis might be a better fit

[@aidanhearn4210]

​@@SgtKaneGunlock Warwick is getting a bit long in the tooth for that

[@LucasDimoveo]

"People back then didn't know any better !" Uh huh ...

[@FuelDropforthewin]

There was no way to know that whipping people would hurt them back then!

[@BikemanSuperfast]

The person saying that might as well be saying "If my friends all jumped off a bridge, I would too!"

[@BenjoCovers]

also they didnt know that you can be healthy without animals products and its more efficient to be plant based and cheaper and better for the environment. People today know this so how can they justify continuing doing horrible things to animals? Im sure every none vegan today would be a slavery and racism and germany supporter back then

[@AV57]

It's such a lazy excuse. For fuck's sake, Jainism (the most pacifist philosophy/religion ever) was founded nearly 2600 years ago. Being an intentionally considerate, non-prejudiced and morally principled person didn't just begin during WW2 or something. Humans have had the means to do it for several millennia (at least).

[@sweetpurple8812]

There was also less ability to platform yourself or be heard, and much more posibility to be horribly punished for even saying things like this.

[@unholyrevenger72]

Conservatives "We are products of our times" Progressives "No, I am a product of my time. You are a product of the past."

[@Lemoncakelover678]

The past being the one they personally were associated with and preferred. Any past that contradicts their beliefs would be negated and re-branded as 'modern' even though it goes as far back as the ancient times.

[@gregkahuna1]

Progressives are products of the past too, and were early supporters of eugenics.

[@sanniepstein4835]

If the present is, say, fascist, wouldn't it be better to stay with the past? Don't make a fetish of novelty, leave that to advertisers.

[@davorbajlovic3136]

Main character syndrome

[@rogerkeleshian2215]

​@@sanniepstein4835 On the contrary, many advertisers can use future possibilities too, to make you do or buy into all sorts of wild notions.

[@raghubhardwaj579]

Thanks! As a recent member of a Quaker church and as being Alice long vegetarian (well born in India as upper caste Hindu pretty much leaves you with no choice but to eschew all animal protein except dairy and that implies just milk, had to include that caveat because it seems in US dairy products include beef) anyway watching this video filled me with euphoric sense of contentment at being a a Hindu by birth and Quaker by choice

[@AtunSheiFilms]

No, thank you! ❤

[@BenBebbington]

Been attending Quaker meetings for just over a year and both myself and Quaker gf love Benjamin Lay. Thanks for the video from Yorkshire.

[@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369]

I think maybe what you mean with dairy product including beef is animal rennet? cause I know like paneer uses vinegar/lemon juice instead, but there are quite a bit of cheeses that use microbial and such coagulants instead

[@durdlegerg7231]

I really hate that "All Lives Matter" became a counter-slogan to "Black Lives Matter". Police brutality is wrong no matter who it happens to. That fact shouldn't distract people from how broken our justice system is, with the racial bent being a significant lowlight.

[@rongreen8962]

My favorite is “All lives matter - even the unborn” thereby negating BLM and abortion rights all at once.

[@durdlegerg7231]

@@rongreen8962 Thanks I hate it even more now.

[@IvanIvanoIvanovich]

I try to see it as a knee-jerk reaction by people who can't empathize with or understand the vastly different lived experiences of others. But I'm sure the reality is that there are a lot of genuinely hateful people.

[@kingofcards9516]

​@@rongreen8962based.

[@fuzzy7644]

@@rongreen8962 dang, with a slogan like that I would just think nothing matters...you know what, that's my slogan.

[@jamestown8398]

It’s weird to hear the Witchfinder-General speak of kindness and tolerance like this.

[@Stroodle_dus_Doodles]

* chanting * *good omens…* *GOOD OMENS…* *GOOD. OMENS!*

[@AdmRose]

As someone who worked in a slaughterhouse for four years I could tell you stories.

[@theguy9208]

ill go first! my grandpa told me one time in the early 80s he watched a guy pick up a dead baby cow and slam it back down, it jumped up, screamed really loud then flopped over dead again. they also used to throw lengths of fresh inner spinal cord at each other for fun, one time he got his supervisor right in his open mouth and it wrapped all the way around his head lmao he worked there for 6 months and had a cold the entire time. that was normal apparently.

[@giorgilobjanidze5667]

Worked as a butcher for 3 months and unironically got erectile disfunction for half a year after quitting that was normal too

[@AV57]

I used to drive 48'-flatbeds across country, but one day I got into a fight with my boss and quit. I figured I had great job security being a good driver and took a job driving reefers, because I was frankly tired of throwing a tarp 2 or 3 times a day. Boy, was I shocked when I started having to make pickups in Iowa and Oklahoma at slaughterhouses. Just standing outside the truck, waiting for my pickup, I could hear almost constant screams of the animals. I can only imagine what the visuals and smells were like, but the audio was enough to turn me into an animal rights advocate for life.

[@ginajones2328]

​@@theguy9208yes people get wickedly sick working in slaughter houses. My daughter was an ER nurse near a Tyson chicken factory so many people coming for care from serious infections. All migrant workers.

[@sweetpurple8812]

@@ginajones2328these things should close down

[@AncientAmericas]

No one has made me reevaluate my views of British colonists in the americas harder than this guy. Great episode!

[@BenBebbington]

Don't reevaluate them all so quickly as Lay.

[@chaosPneumatic]

The part about how isolating it is to go against the immoral but accepted norms of your generation really captures how it feels to support Palestinian rights while both politicial parties and their supporters are passively accepting an ongoing genocide.

[@Tofu_va_Bien]

I'm extremely grateful in to live in a society where supporting Palestine is the norm. Sure does suck being vegan and a communist though.

[@sanniepstein4835]

You are not moral, simply ignorant. See Bill Warner on the history of Islam.

[@CaroAbebe]

It’s so disturbing to me how one-sided Palestine supporters tend to be. Support the Palestinian population, but support Israel too.

[@Tofu_va_Bien]

@@CaroAbebe I won’t be supporting a settler-colonial ethnostate, and neither should you.

[@chaosPneumatic]

@@CaroAbebe "It's so disturbing to me how one-sided Nelson Mandela supporters tend to be. Support the native African population of South Africa, but support the Apartheid Government too."

[@thepeasantsofdithmarschen3507]

This man has inspired me to be even more insufferable about being a vegan anti-racist than I was before

[@LeafHuntress]

Agreed. If you don't know Bite Sized Vegan, she's a youtuber & has a HISTORY OF VEGANISM video essay series, for more inspiration. 🙂

[@thepeasantsofdithmarschen3507]

@@LeafHuntress thank you for the recommendation!

[@portland9880]

YES

[@user-to9ge8ii9n]

I look forward to 👍 your messages as I see them.

[@portland9880]

@strangecoasteroutdoors799 any anti-racist veganism takes into account the practices and customs of Indigenous peoples.

[@Newton-Reuther]

Goes to show that while it may have been more difficult, "it was a different time back then" is never a good excuse.

[@SafetySpooon]

BEST COMMENT OF THE THREAD!

[@AV57]

It's pure intellectual laziness.

[@konyvnyelv.]

Yes it is.

[@adnankhalid8457]

​@@konyvnyelv. Get out

[@froggy.2256]

@@konyvnyelv. you admit in other comments to be very bigoted. How can being from a different time be a good excuse when you’re still like that today? Do you think people will say the same of you? Either way, your place in time does not abstain you from the evil of your hatred

[@RunawayTrain2502]

Why do I now want the Whitchfinder-General of Massachussetts Bay to react to Lay's writings? Also, This guy man... THIS fucking guy.

[@jeffreygao3956]

They'd be enemies.

[@illerac84]

@@jeffreygao3956 Quaker dog!!

[@TheGreatCooLite]

I’m from Philly and I’m happy that more people are learning about Benjamin Lay!

[@PonianYouTube]

Ben Lay's body lies a-mouldering in the grave Ben Lay's body lies a-mouldering in the grave Ben Lay's body lies a-mouldering in the grave BUT HIS SOUL GOES MARCHING ON!!!

[@iagomartinezdealegriamader52]

As a European it is easy to acquire a certain feeling of superiority towards American history because it seems so short, but I am surprised by how incredibly complex and intense it is.

[@salahmerhi6827]

It's a really in depth spin-off series of British History

[@Neptunes_Bounty]

400 years is still a long time.

[@Sam_on_YouTube]

The view of American history as short is not really true. The country is older than all but a few others. Italy, Germany, Spain, all younger. The vast majority of governments around the world are younger than ours, with The UK being one of the few that at least has a continuity with the one that existed back when it was an absolute monarchy, even as the monarch has lost virtually all of their power. The history of the native peoples of the land is also just as long. Only, people rarely tell it. Few of the native populations had writing and the oral histories were largely ignored, so while there is just as much history, it isn't as well known. And since we talk so much more about the history since European contact, where we have good records, we can get deeper into that. We have records in Europe going back 2000 years... but not many. So we can talk about that history, but not in any kind of detail. But in China and Egypt, they have detailed written records going back about 5000 years.

[@8xottox8]

​@@Sam_on_KZbin That's if you look at it literally. Finland may be just 100 years old as a nation, but the people and culture have been there since the ice age.

[@hjuy4049]

​@@Sam_on_KZbin The U.S is older than the country of Germany, not the German nation itself, Germany clearly has a longer history than the British colonies + the U.S

[@cheesedoff-with4410]

I'm not halfway through and this is powerful stuff. I've told my wife and straight away she said, "Oh, Marcus Rediker wrote a book and a play about Benjamin Lay". I suspect you've been reading 'The Fearless Benjamin Lay' for your research. I wish there was a film about this bloke.

[@billyfd]

Fantastic history lesson and a righteous call to action- thanks Atun-Shei! Just made a contribution to PAN to help fight the Good fight!

[@inappropriatejohnson]

I too have a quarrelsome habit of loudly interrupting prayer meetings to accuse various ministers of avarice and covetousness.......tis why, for the public good, I set not foot in church. Hallelujah!

[@AlyxiSistahTweaky25]

I live in Singapore. But my permanent address is in Denver. I received the email for my November ballot a couple days ago.... And I just voted Yes on both the relevant ordinances (308 and 309).

[@Greg41982]

I find it so amazing that we can all have ready access to these absolutely top-notch programs on KZbin. I tell my kids that "these days, there is no excuse not to know about something." I'm glad that I, now in my 49th year of life, have learned about this wonderful fellow and am now slightly less wrong than I was yesterday. I love the saying of another KZbinr I watch: "Less Wronger is More Better."

[@Oldass_Deadass_dumbass_channel]

That's not necessarily true. There are still many situations where one would not have the ability to educate oneself further. Much is still locked in the land of literature, and many of those books have gone out of print. How many major historical revelations are languishing on the yellowed pages of a dry historical manuscript with a name far too long for its own good, confined to a dusty shelf in some soon to be closed book store, destined to be forgotten? We will never know the number, but we can be confident that it is not zero, and that fact hurts me.

[@-cosmicrogue-]

Hell yeah, another Travis McEnery fan! 🕷️🕸️😉

[@Greg41982]

@@-cosmicrogue- Always.

[@noarmsnolife6665]

God, this one was incredible. I'm going to be honest, above all, I LOVE the hardcore vegan turn this channel (and you as a person) seem to have taken. It mirrors what has happened in my own life. Keep it up! Your work keeps getting better.

[@thearaucariafarmer556]

This comment is IT!

[@luxborealis]

Eh, I wish there was a bit less of it. I’m not much of a meat eater myself, and certainly don’t agree with factory farming, but my girlfriend is also vegan and she’s constantly talking about it, I’m not too fond of having the same sermons repeated to me here too. I have muscle issues, I need to eat protein-rich dishes once or twice a week at least to help repair it, and I am frankly not going to eat the huge amounts of plant-based protein I would need for that on top of what I eat the rest of the week. The stores here have like five vegan options, I am not going to have the same bean-based imitation meat for like the third time the week in even larger amounts, when I can get the same protein from like two cutlets at a quarter the price. I try to buy meat ethically and I’ve cut out dairy and eggs, but damn am I tired of the constant talk about the moral superiority of veganism both at home and online. I know, please just give it a rest. Focus on the factory farming first, it’s a much more pressing issue in society.

[@noarmsnolife6665]

@@luxborealis thats a lot of cope brother. make the kind choice.

[@idiot_rat]

@@luxborealislog off then.

[@stankmcdankton6204]

When he judges historical people by modern standards, they wag their fingers. When he judges modern people by historical standards, that's just a Witchfinder General skit. Hypocrites, all of you.

[@AlexDeLarge1]

For years now I've been saying the way to end beef consumption is to make it prohibitively expensive to people. Beef is destroying the world. It will be the cause. Dead Rising had it right on the money. People thought it was silly but it wasn't, it was probably one of the best and most serious political video game plot points ever.

[@luxborealis]

It’s already prohibitively expensive. I’m not sure how it is where you live, but in my country even the cheapest cut of beef is like $20 US now. Good cuts can be two or three times that. I am a semi-regular meat eater but even I can only afford beef a couple times a year.

[@AlexDeLarge1]

@@luxborealis Good. Should be more expensive. Eat better.

[@krankarvolund7771]

Even if he didn't knew any Natives, Almond milk was largely used as a substitute for milk in medieval Europe. In a 1755 english dictionnary, so right around that period, plant-based milk was so prominent that the writer included it in the milk definition for almond and pistachio milk. Plant based milk in 1700s America is not far-fetched at all, especially coming from an englishman XD

[@TihetrisWeathersby]

Benjamin Lay was a great man, Well before his time

[@testhamstr]

I've been a long time fan of this channel, and this series might be my favorite yet! I'm learning about all of these fascinating people who I previously had no idea existed.

[@Name-ot3xw]

My truck is so big that the tailgate has its own little pedestrian door built in, that's how you can tell that I am a man's man.

[@MagicalSkyWizard]

I don’t break bread with landlords. I get it

[@jrenema]

Petition to build a statue for this guy on Monument Avenue in Richmond

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

[@BenjoCovers]

so are you ignoring vegans, laughing at them, fighting them or did you already join them and stop exploiting animals?

[@Jabberwockybird]

Is that the phrase the sexual pervert made popular?

[@genessab]

@@BenjoCoversI for one have joined them. Let’s stop oppression of all kinds

[@fryuppe]

Absolutely brilliant work from Atun-Shei - some of the very best of KZbin. A remarkable presentation.

[@brosreunited5188]

To believe in something is one thing. To be one of the only people to belueve in something is another. But to believe in something so storngly that you proudly share it aloud for all to hear takes a special kind of person. Thank you for another great video and topic

[@cucuserpent4]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for making this video and for all you do! I am so proud of Pro-Animal future for starting this groundbreaking initiative! I will be donating and looking for ways to bring this to the East coast. I am inspired to say the least ❤

[@butterfish-g9f]

While it's a good goal to shut down factory farms, I would say personal changes in diet would be necessary to make that goal remain permanent. Part of the reason why factory farms came about was to meet the insane demand of modern meat consumption. Eating meat every meal of every day, often several kinds, typically wasting most of the organ meat is just not sustainable at all. Alternating meat consumption days with no meat days, trying to eat mainly one type of meat per meal unless you have leftovers, buy or hunt and process entire carcasses would also lower demand. We'd also need to retire stuff like buckets of wings and legs because how many birds is that? Normalizing stuff like giant turkey legs, which requires breeding animals that grow until they collapse and die would also need to be retired. In the west we could also normalize practices in other countries that are more resource sane like multiple families coming together to fork over money to buy one whole goat, sheep or cow to be slaughtered and the meat and offal divvied out between them. That helps local farmers and reduces the animals that need to be killed to what is necessary and not obscene excess. Using way more offal meat like they do in other countries like cow intestines and tongues for tacos and more liver, kidney, heart based dishes. All of that would help with ending factory farms and reducing general waste and pollution.

[@Miron_Marnic]

You are doing a great service to humanity and all other species with your work. Thank you!

[@jakegarvin7634]

"Remember the righteous man is merciful to his beast" no truer words said. I've been keeping a phrase in my head that I came up with "Honour is how you treat your prisoners" and I feel joy knowing at least once somewhere agreed with me

[@LordOmnipraetor]

As a vegan, I love your rant at the end of your video

[@matthewkrumlauf9990]

It was a joy to watch this video. Recently I got out of surgery and can finally start thinking again, inspecting my values and reading on ethics. Thank you for opening further ways to reevaluate my ethics and to push against societal pressure to conform.

[@TihetrisWeathersby]

Am I too much of a nerd when I already guessed who the video was about from the title lol

[@markclark6771]

I also guessed who it was about before watching, and I know I'm a nerd, so you must be a nerd as well.

[@loganmcdaniel1359]

Naw, y’all just educated. Good shit~

[@mathinvitti7954]

Yes, but that isn't a bad thing.

[@jeffreygao3956]

Not enough of a nerd! You gotta have weak nerd arms!

[@jiraffe9600]

No. There wasn’t that many anti-racist vegans in 1738, so there wasn’t many options for what the video was about from that title.

[@els1f]

Thank you for directing much needed hate towards the giant lifted truck, with extra horns and an attachment that simply makes it louder, and a completely clean bed, wheels and everything that will never see a road outside of a suburb🙃

[@jfu5222]

I hate these modern giant trucks too, find a way to overcompensate that doesn't endanger everyone else!

[@BenjoCovers]

yeah but not being vegan is worse for the environment and thats not even the worst part, since you actively support the slavery of innocent emotional beings

[@maelstrom8897]

I was very happy seeing your community post on Pro Animal Future. Keep up the great work

[@tombradshaw1378]

I'm a simple person. I see ALF flag, I subscribe. Can't wait to watch this

[@AccoSpoot]

Kinda reminds me of Dr William Price. A Welsh nationalist from the 1800's who was this wierd radical hermit, he helped reintroduce the world to Druidry (sorta) got chased to France after protesting with the Chartists and helped normalise cremation. Cool guy.

[@nastropc]

I’ve never before watched a long-form video essay and immediately rewound to watch through again in full

[@cheesedoff-with4410]

Good for you. Left a bit of an impression on me too.

[@lmcb8447]

This goes to show that while it was way more unlikely back then there were still anti-racist ppl as long as racism existed .

[@KenzoElysium]

The only reason not to judge a historical figure by modern standards is to be an apologist and an advocate for slavery and colonialism.

[@konyvnyelv.]

Who says modern standards are the best?

[@augustuslunasol10thapostle]

@@konyvnyelv. i do and you are always and will forever be wrong you are sick and vile creature and no amount of denial changes that the devil will always be the devil not matter how much he lawyers that he is a angel

[@robhogg68]

Thank you. I knew of John Woolman (he died not far from where I am now, in York - you can see a plaque on the wall of the cottage where he spent his last days), but I hadn't come across Benjamin Lay. I'm fascinated by all such historical figures.

[@AtunSheiFilms]

Thank you!

[@MrDaredevil96]

I always appreciate Atun-Shei. One of the few history KZbinrs I’m confident wouldn’t give me that look once they discover my skin is dark and what my politics and morals are 😂

[@corytracy8993]

When I was at Pitt in the late nineties, Dr. Rediker always acted as a faculty liaison for student led social activism.

[@cheesedoff-with4410]

I came across that name for the first time last night. I need to read some of his work.

[@corytracy8993]

@@cheesedoff-with4410 Start off with The Fearless Benjamin Lay and then check out Between The Devil and The Deep Blue Sea about pirates and shit!

[@teorec]

I've never been so in awe at a tattoo reveal in my life. Thank you for the video

[@sweetpotatodato6068]

Benjamin Lay was quite possibly the greatest Pennsylvanian of the colonial era.

[@mr.vercotti9509]

Genuinely, your ravenous video instantly turned me vegan and completely changed my worldview overnight, and I’m so glad to hear that you’re visiting my home town of Denver to fight the factory farm industry. I feel honored to hear that you’re doing some of the most noble work in existence right in my very own backyard.

[@gmodrules123456789]

Cringe + idealist

[@BikemanSuperfast]

@@gmodrules123456789 Yeah bro caring about things is so cringe

[@gmodrules123456789]

@@BikemanSuperfast Good intentions going to waste is cringe man

[@subjekt5577]

​@@gmodrules123456789 fr, all the cool kids hate on everything but never do anything. It's so lame and anti social to advocate for a better world. I'm also edgy. After all, everyone else is, and deep down I really just want people to think I'm cool.

[@gmodrules123456789]

@@subjekt5577 A world without meat wouldn’t be a better world

[@junahn1907]

Though I have no proof, I would have to think that Benjamin Lay was a huge influence on the political philosophy of fellow Pennsylvania Quaker Thomas Paine, who interestingly was also shunned by the Quaker community for his "radical" positions regarding abolition and slavery.

[@MrWill9894]

Didn’t know Thomas Paine was a Quaker! I know later in life he advocated for Deism

[@argosgiovanni5988]

One of the founding fathers Benjamin rush, (himself an abolitionist) actually wrote an adoring biography of Benjamin lay in 1790

[@BenBebbington]

This is the first time I've heard Paine referred to as a Quaker, do you have any info regarding that? Would love it to be true and so need evidence.

[@junahn1907]

@@BenBebbington He was raise Quaker, but eventually renounced his upbringing to espouse Deism. His family wanted him buried in a Quaker cemetery, but the community refused.

[@Magar6]

“Animals are not here for us to do as we please with. We are not their superiors. We are their equals. We are their family. Be kind to them.” - Ricky Gervais

[@snorpenbass4196]

...I kinda think Ricky Gervais could take a note on kindness himself and stop being a transphobic a-hole...

[@deborahblock-schwenk2907]

Thanks so much for this video! My now-husband and I went vegan in 1991. We once met someone who had done it in the 1950s, which felt impossibly hard. I can only imagine the 1730s!

[@charlieorr2875]

the reveal of lay fully tattooed on your body was so cool. it really shows the commitment to this subject and his legacy

[@MeatGoblin88]

Woke dude from the 18th century is probably my favorite character archetype. Absolute Kings. "It was a different time!!" people in shambles.

[@BikemanSuperfast]

It doesn't seem much different from being a woke dude in small town Ohio 2024

[@JellyFlavoredGerman]

Every time people defend Churchill like that I direct said people to the numerous quotes of contemporaneous Brits calling him a racist, a drunk, a maniac, and comparing him to Hitler.

[@FloatingErgonaut]

​@@JellyFlavoredGermanAny good books or resources where I can find a collection of these? Churchill sucks.

[@konyvnyelv.]

It was a different time. So all the people were right in not following modern human rights

[@BikemanSuperfast]

@@konyvnyelv. TBH, "It was a different time" is an asinine argument. Humans live for around 70 years, a lot can change in that amount of time and whining about failure to adapt is frankly pathetic. It's the easiest possible way out, basically an admission that your beliefs and actions don't derive from what YOU know to be right, only what the hivemind thinks/thought at the time of your coming of age. I plan to be a woke old geezer in the year 2074 because right is right.

[@tylerellington8796]

Whoa, i love that he directly addressed modern-day slavery apologist's favorite counterpoint: that whites could be owned as slaves, too. See "English slaves in Algier" at 25:16. Their situation was no less reprehensible, but these colonists were aware of them and more than willing to afflict Africans with the same condition.

[@Chasmodius]

Lab-grown meat cannot come fast enough. What incredible determination by people like Lay who did what they could to make a non-animal-cruelty lifestyle work in centuries past! (passed?)

[@williamhartman5424]

"The righteous man is merciful to his beast" is ultimately drawn from the bible, Proverbs 12:10

[@Jabberwockybird]

"Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things." Genesis 9:3

[@names_are_useless]

@@Jabberwockybird Yeah, Genesis basically tells Christians that animals exist as walking food-pinatas. The Bible defines animals as below them. It also holds that servants should simply obey their masters without question (as you would God). God is also a genocidal maniac responsible for the deaths of millions (The Flood, Sodom & Gomorrah, all the pillaging and raping he asks his "Chosen People" to do). The Bible is simply not pro-veganism, anti-slavery nor peaceful. It is simply not a religious book one should form their life around.

[@AlexDeLarge1]

Benjamin Lay really out here dropping "very mindful, very demure" in 1738

[@Bob_Lennart]

Even today, being anti-racist is considered "radical"... let that sink in for a moment

[@sanniepstein4835]

By whom? The so called anti racists promote themselves by pretending to be warriors in battles long since won by others. Stolen valor and moral vanity, a distasteful combination.

[@curtislowe195]

What have the anti racists said about the lack of blonde and redheaded leaders in Africa Asia and the middle east?

[@cheshireket3132]

This is such a bad faith argument ​@@curtislowe195

[@vonelgamer3071]

​@@curtislowe195???

[@curtislowe195]

@@vonelgamer3071 you forgot to answer the question

[@Sakai070]

I feel I owe this guy a personal debt of gratitude being of African descent and living free in America today. It really does strike me that animal rights types are the modern day abolitionist, which I do not count myself among. Perhaps if I wasn't quite so poor, lol. In my part of Maine, the military industrial complex and lobster fishery employ 80% of my peers combined, with the rest working in service of some sort. Issues such as animal rights tend to fall into the 'it would be nice if I could afford to be moral' category. All that being said I feel that both what this man did in the past and what you were doing in the present are noble and good. and while it might not be a cause that I personally support, I genuinely wish you guys luck in November.

[@AV57]

Just as one possible option, there are seaweed farms in Maine. Ever since the Fukushima disaster, Atlantic seaweed farms have really taken off. We can get food from the sea that isn't animal-based if we collectively put our minds to it.

[@theshenpartei]

Benjamin lay really needs a movie sing he seems quite a character. For that matter we really a movie about the quakers.

[@warriorworkouts5397]

We ᏀᎳᎩ (Tsalagi) made hickory nut milk even further south so it’s definitely not impossible or improbable that he could have made some nut milk. 😊

[@TheDreadPirateBluetail]

You've been in Denver and I didn't know?!?! Well as a Denver local I'm definitely voting to end these horrible things, glad to see you getting the word out!

[@firstandlastaliv3]

OMG. Thanks to World of Antiquity, I found you and am I effing thrilled!! What a wonderful video. Thank you a million times.💓💙💜😺🦊🐂🐷🦆

[@F1lmtwit]

He wasn't a Quaker, he was a FELLOW.

[@panqueque445]

Unfathomably based.

[@badabing3391]

there you are again 🤨

[@panqueque445]

@@badabing3391 👽

[@naganeen0]

Working with meat is one of the most depressing jobs ive ever had

[@doggodoggo3000]

Yea. I recently went vegan. id been eating less and less animal products and about a month ago i decided to stop altogether.

[@fuzzy7644]

Though I didn't work with meat, I did work in the meat industry which housed an industial chicken coop. The noise in those places were some of the worst things imaigne. No joke, sometimes I can still hear it echoing in my head. Some of my co-workers would pick up the sickier ones and just kill them outright like it was nothing. I stopped eating eggs and chicken after that and then eventually just stopped eating meat altogther. I wouldn't consider myself vegan though I can never actively support that level of slaugher for pointless gain.

[@doggodoggo3000]

@@fuzzy7644 that reminds me of the nightmares i get from working in dog sled racing. a sea of dogs on chains barking and howling and whimpering and pacing. everything is ice and blood and p*ss and sh*t and i am powerless to do anything to help.

[@badart3204]

⁠@@fuzzy7644if it makes you feel better every time you pass by a person above the height of 5’6 you are responsible for that. That meat does serve a point which is healthier humans that don’t suffer from malnutrition which would stunt their growth

[@fuzzy7644]

@badart3204 fruits and vegetables can produce nutritions and iron too, if you eat the right ones you actually get better results than you would from eating an egg. But even if, for some reason, eggs are the reason for growing taller...who cares?

[@bacon4life673]

"Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance... Moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence. Yet it is the one essential, vital quality for those who seek to change a world that yields most painfully to change." -Robert F. Kennedy

[@grenmoyo3968]

I have been WAITING FOREVER FOR THE VIDEO OF BENJAMIN LAY!!!!

[@thedemolitionmuniciple]

"You can't judge people from the past by the rules of today" Yeah you know maybe they're right, I mean stabbings were just so common, I guess no one must have been hurt by them and no one could have possibly known that they hurt people What hurts people today has always hurt people, and I will always stand against anyone who hurts another. There is no paradox of tolerance, because the intolerant have broken the social contract. Today, yesterday, and every other yesterday.

[@FoodFanBoy7845]

Yeah, I don't understand our obsession with cultural and historical moral relativism. Especially amongst the religious who are supposed to believe in "objective morality"

[@somethingelse4424]

I think it comes down to the fact that people have always been inclined to do whatever suits their interests if society permits it or there's nobody to stop them. We have always had awareness of something like the golden rule, it's just not codified or enforced, never convenient, and there's always some ready excuse. You're absolutely right that people have always inherently known that what they are doing to others is painful to them and I think make a choice to do it.

[@eyesofthecervino3366]

"But . . . but if we judge people based on their actions, and not based on how well they were going along with everything around them with no regard for how their behavior affected others, then that would imply _I_ have some kind of moral responsibility to think critically and have a moral compass outside of what everyone around me is doing!" Worst part is I'm no better. I'm learning, but there were definitely times in my life when I was wholly an unquestioning product of my environment and my environment wasn't always nice. So maybe that's why, maybe we all need to do some introspection before we can stop being terrible people, or at least spineless drifters, and we're running super hard from that implication.

[@gmodrules123456789]

@@FoodFanBoy7845 Because cultural and historical relativism are correct lmao. You think the Romans thought slavery was immoral? They didn't. Greek philosophers tried to justify it. Ancient Babylon was cool with lords murdering their peasants. Morality is a social construct, dictated by the base and superstructure of society. Knowing that actually makes it easier to pursue social change, fyi. Also be aware that the social change can be easily reversed if you get complacent.

[@francisdec1615]

@@gmodrules123456789 Of course SOME Greeks and Romans thought slavery was wrong. And why would Greek philosophers have to "justify" slavery, if it was so obvious to everyone back then that it was nothing wrong with it? The German poet Walther von der Vogelweide wrote a poem about how it is wrong to use threats and violence to raise children already 800 years ago. There were always people not simply cowardly accepting the laws and customs of an evil society. I myself am an individual anarchist and antinatalist, which isn't as dangerous as being against slavery in 1738 or earlier but still makes you an outcast around "normal" people.