Audi Q8 e-tron 55 Sportback extensive charging test

[@w0nd3rlu573r]

I don't think I will ever get enough of this type of horse-race commentary, but standing completely still 😀

[@georgepelton5645]

"Clash of the Titans" - I love it. Bjørn is the king of charging test videos! 😀

[@B3ni1]

I loved the video! You should include more of these 15:35 effects also mabye in some other videos. And you are sitting in Nissan X-Trail e-Power e-4orce😎

[@bjornnyland]

Correct. The e-4orce = e-fourorce... lol

[@JPetr94]

@@bjornnyland In the true spirit of LEFAFC lol

[@SteveLoughran]

no idea about the electric X-Trail but i have a friend who had a nightmare with a classic one after some failure in the wiring. He had to wait about 6 months until another X trail owner in france managed to write their car off before he could get the replacement part he needed from it. Of course, that's a problem for any low-volume vehicle where the manufacturers don't have enough spares

[@markfitzpatrick6692]

Your still the best Bjorn. No one can match knowledge and humor.

[@davidbryant2872]

The Out of Spec team did a similar comparison of the old eTron versus the new Q8 eTron. They said the difference in charge curves is a result of the newer model having less cobalt in the battery.

[@ronald4life1]

And a bigger battery, the percentages don't completely line up.

[@mrrkrr]

15:33 YES, LOVE THIS

[@w0nd3rlu573r]

19:00 So half an hour from 10 to 80%? I'll take the Tesla every time, thank you very much.

[@marcel151]

Which also took half an hour 10 to 80% with a smaller battery, thus even gained less energy... In terms of charging speed, not that big difference. Unfortunately, still a big difference in terms of consumption.

[@johnmichaelkane8462]

if you noticed all 4 cars reached 80 percent and 90 percent roughly at the same time. Unfortunately there aren't many fast chargers for non Tesla cars in Canada. So Tesla still has an edge in Canada and maybe the USA but in Norway it's pretty much even.

[@chesterman18g]

12:00 the most funny part :D Bjorn, you are the best in this :D

[@jasonblair4057]

This was a blast of a video. Well done.

[@SergioMartinez-qx9rt]

Results are clear, charging time is roughly the same for the four cars, showing state of the art .. that’s it, that’s the tech we have as of today No magical tricks, as there can be none, battery tech is what it is Btw, fat etron weights essentially the same as the other big SUVs, including the Polestar 3, and thus consumption at highway speed is also roughly identical, give or take Nice video, it confirms that any car will be perfectly usable, criterion is subjective, price, perceived quality, specs, image..

[@sallerc]

This makes me think of the Hans Rosling graph commentary 🙂

[@MrVurtan]

Great video and battle. It is interesting that all cars in the last race where really close towards the middle/end.

[@ryankassel5691]

I saw someone else mention something similar, but it would be really cool if you reported charging speeds as they relate to your real world range. Instead of talking about X minutes to add whatever %, it might be more useful to talk about how much real-world range that replenished. You already have the data with your range tests, so I think it should be very possible!

[@onefiniteplanet]

Does it make sense to just compare % values, when the same % in the new battery is more kWh?

[@ericgold3840]

I'd like to see the time to a certain SoC de-emphasized, given the differences in usable capacity, nominal capacity, and efficiency between cars. It would be great to add a PID that takes the product of kWh added and the EPA highway Wh/km so that we could see a graph of range added over charging time. And so long as I am asking for stuff for Xmas, how about a PID that displays time charging ?

[@onefiniteplanet]

Yes, totally agreed. The fascination with % charge becomes irrelevant as battery sizes change. If I move for example to a 50% bigger battery, why would a care if % climbs at same speed given i would be adding 50% more range per minute.

[@Zedus-rl9hp]

Mercedes with percent-gate 😲 Another exciting and funny presentation, the manufacturers are getting very close. But personaly, a "peak" charging curve fits best for my driving behavior - can always drive off with a full battery and this is usually more than enough for the daily route. For the few long distances, only need to top up for 10 minutes during a pee break and the battery is at least 1/3 full again and so over all, a range about 550km with a Model 3 LR, with no extra charging time.

[@EugeneHoochie]

Thanks for the race :). I wonder why you mention cobalt in charging aspect so frequently? Cobalt is a nice structural cathode element. Having lower than nickel capacity, it helps a lot to keep crystal structure rigid in absence of lithium. It may allow for slightly higher voltages but has nothing to do with late charging as it is controlled mostly by graphite permeability to lithium.

[@ryankassel5691]

My understanding is that cobalt allows the battery to accept more power at lower temperatures

[@EugeneHoochie]

@@ryankassel5691 yes, that is the point: for conventional li-ion, and except of the very exotic design cases, charging performance is not constrained by cathode. The weak link is anode, particularly the type/shape/size of graphite grains, presence/portion of silicon, electrolyte, binder, thickness etc etc etc. Cathode defines charging speed in li-metal where lithium sediments right on the current collector.

[@AlexandreMoleiro]

Best charging video of 2023 so far!

[@allisterbullock213]

Hi Bjørn, great video and explanations but am I beginning to see a trend here? It looks like the cars with prismatic or pouch cells have a wider temperature spread, so I guess they're harder to control thermally. Any thoughts on this?

[@ObserverDingue]

I agree with other comments that the charging race (or wrestling match! loved that!) would be more usefully expressed as KWh added combined with (already tested) range kms added over time at the charger. Interesting to see such wide disparity of charging current (Amps) at different states of charge. I also wonder how the factor of differing battery technology affects this. A different race would be a closer to real world usage one where the charging session is from eg 10 to 90%. Closer to the soc charging range you require in the 1000km challenge. Really enjoyed the video!

[@Rei_n1]

Q8 etron charging charts are consistent with Audi's press materials. At least the initial lower charging speed which increases unusualy, than increases at higher charge levels. My guess would be that Audi is artificially limiting the initial charge speed so that customers don't go deep to optimise charge speed on longer trips

[@allan8490]

Epic video ,appreciate the time involved putting these together😊

[@UK-Cycling]

Smart video Bjørn 🤣🤣🤣Best regards Martin

[@audivisual]

Did I miss the average charging speed in all those comparisons? After all, this is the only true value to compare charging speeds. The SOC % reached (80, 90,100) does not say much about the true charging speed as the battery sizes differ.

[@michalvaner3167]

🤔I'm not sure, but I kind of find the graph of power vs SoC a bit misleading. Wouldn't it be more telling with km/s charged vs time?

[@ericvet8b]

Great 3 charging videos in 1!!!!! 👍👍👍 For me still Tesla or EQS… as also most efficient…? Are you in a Nissan xtrail range extender thingy??

[@oddhv7688]

Will you be testing Lexus RZ450h anytime soon?

[@starboy4226]

looking forward when you will be testing the KIA EV9

[@TheArminOF]

For practical reasons I prefer the Tesla charging curve. If am in a hurry, it quickly charges to 70% and I can move on. If I want a longer break (eg for lunch/dinner) more time for charging 70-100 % is better to avoid blocking fees.

[@bjornnyland]

For 1000 km challenge, I only needed to charge to 50 % to get decent range in Model S Plaid.

[@TheArminOF]

@@bjornnyland Then, the Tesla curve is even better. And probably also for battery life.

[@szymonfryca]

What a race. I got sweaty. :))) Which has the best charge curve, Mercedes or Tesla?

[@mandioni]

One of the best comparison video so far 👍

[@Mandalore313]

This is the most intense charging test I've ever seen

[@thewebkat]

Hi I need to ask you something that I’m looking for and can’t find .What plug in hybrids have Tesla’s camp mode ? Specially cooling for very hot weather

[@oreskec]

Is that Xpeng G9 at the end? Not sure, but it looks big

[@leobreevoort9151]

Don't think it is, because of the shape of the third side window. My guess then: Voyah Free.

[@rodrigosousa9049]

can you please compare km added and not only kw, the most important part is the the km charged.

[@bjornnyland]

You don't add kW, you add kWh.

[@rodrigosousa9049]

@@bjornnyland yes i know ahahah, i said km = kilometers not kw or kwh.

[@insevanhouts]

4 years and they only managed to slap in a larger battery charging at a lower average C rate....

[@bjornnyland]

Reminds me of what Hyundai did with Ioniq 28 vs 38 kWh.

[@insevanhouts]

@@bjornnyland Oh yes indeed! I'm very much enjoying my 28kWh. Thank you for everything you do for the community! It's also interesting to note that the air-cooled OG ioniq charges at a larger C rate than this high tech fat etron.

[@BillB33525]

Why do both cars have the same range @ 100% ?

[@mikaelsnare]

Interesting video, as always! One thing though. V = vee, W = dabeljuu på engelska 😊 Dvs, BMW = bee-em-dabeljuu. Ha de!

[@TheMadmax0609]

Never charge past 80% while traveling. The amount of range you get for the time you have to wait is not worth it.

[@BVZTIII]

Except when taking a food break either way 😋

[@TheMadmax0609]

@@BVZTIII agreed! 😎

[@BillB33525]

Except when the extra range is necessary to reach the next charger station.

[@kngmrtn]

At 500A and above with 400V, there must be significant kWh loss due to electrical resistance vs E-Tron. What is the delta for these 4 cars between kWh at the Chargingpoint vs. kWh ending up in the Battery?

[@Maarten_vd]

800 volt system is barely giving any efficiency improvement. It mostly allows for thinner whires, thus cost and weight savings.

[@bjornnyland]

400 V loss is way less than you expect. The main loss in 800 V battery is in the cells (which are the exact same as 400 V system): kzbin.info/www/bejne/n33QenybbrOSl6s

[@kngmrtn]

@@bjornnyland I agree, but 500A+ vs E-Tron 425A should show significant measureable delta. Other tests indicate that EQS and other high peak cars waste as much as 8kWh per Charge Session vs E-Tron. Your test shows EQS charging 104.5kWh from 10% SoC on a net-capacity of 107kWh, also shows 8.2 kWh delta.

[@bjornnyland]

It's not as simples as that. Some EVs will heat up the battery during charging and then cool down the battery. Whereas some cars are "lazy" and only cool down when it's needed. And then we have Leaf that doesn't cool down at all. So in this comparison, Leaf would have the lowest "losses".

[@kngmrtn]

@@bjornnyland interesting - do you have the kWh charged for E-Tron and Tesla in your source material? Would be great to compare the "charging efficiency" between the 4.

[@palusisko]

This race will not accept many Tesla "maniacs" :-) :-) E-tron, good job! :-)

[@Maarten_vd]

Might be a good job, we don't know how much Audi is willing to allow the battery to be stressed to keep up with competitors. Yes it reached 90% faster but during that time, it added much lower range (in KM's) than any tesla while costing more to charge.

[@biff2bart509]

@@Maarten_vd E-trons have been on the road now for 4 years with minimal - if any - battery degradation. Audi just nailed the battery cooling :)

[@BillB33525]

@@biff2bart509 Lots of Cobalt too.

[@c-fb]

Epic!!

[@ronald4life1]

If fast charging typically you want to back off around 70% and move on with any of the cars.. in which case the q8 Etron is the winner

[@hugodeandres1497]

This was not a good charging session for 2023 etron… at around 4:00 you can see old etron steadily dropping how many km of range it’s charging/ hour. But the 2023 etron is a huge mess

[@voksic13]

Get Q8 50. It's the same battery as old 55.

[@pbxl]

@@voksic13 that's what I've done... plenty enough for my daily trip..

[@johnhadlow9345]

So my Plaid seems to charge faster…I had 180kw @ 49% at 250kw Supercharger. (Germany). I took a photo but can’t seem to add it. Something changed with charging curve.

[@bjornnyland]

How many % did you start charging at? That's very important.

[@johnhadlow9345]

@@bjornnyland about 45%. I was doing a fast top up b4 arriving home. It ramped from about 150kw as far as I remember. Peaked at 180 then gradually dropped. I had been rather fast on autobahn and battery conditioned.

[@NL-nr7zv]

​@@johnhadlow9345 my i4 m50 has done 200kw at 52%, but starting just below 49. This never happens when I start at 20%. So nothing wrong with the curve, starting point is what matters.

[@tridruankham2657]

❤❤❤

[@henningkarbstein777]

Bjorn: Thanks for all the work, but the graphs are not really most helpful. Better would be to show graphs with the the added charge over time. Either SOC, or kWh, or - best of all - in miles of range, over time! (... the last one requires to include the efficiency of the vehicle). See what the YT channel "State of Charge", Tom Moloughney, does. )

[@w0nd3rlu573r]

21:21 the iX is like 999,9! 999,9! :-D

[@jakobkesselberg5912]

I don't fully understand why these cars are compared by the SoC-percentage by Björn. The only thing that matters is how many kWh has been put in respective battery - that is the energy delivered.

[@bjornnyland]

You don't charge an EV based on how many kWh you need. EVs are not used as a powerbank. EVs are used for *driving*. So what matters by the end of the day is how many km they can go based on kWh charged but also the efficiency of the car.

[@jakobkesselberg5912]

​@@bjornnyland Sure - but why do you compare with SoC percent then - and not with km/h charged? These results would be more inline with 1000km challenge and make more sense. At least to me. :D

[@Isamu1013]

I would take the Tesla curve as the only times I do fast charge is when on longer trips, and I mostly charge only to 60% or less. Higher charging speeds with increasing SOC makes no sense for me.

[@MsWoodgnome]

So entertaining and informative - shiiiiiiiiiiit!

[@strohbertl]

Old e-tron had crazy amount of colbalt. They obviously have reduced it.

[@No1cemeister]

Why does the teslas not charge faster? My vintage model 3 sr+ june 2019 hits 176kw every time until some 25% and pass 100kw at 52% and only has 46kwh netto power

[@w0nd3rlu573r]

Hey, will you be spoiling us with a Vinfast? Indeed you are 😈

[@farinic]

he should make short & tiktok from 15:44 :)))) epic match :p

[@thibs8801]

330kms with 100kWhw it's a shame ! Why make car so heavy ?

[@Uwe07Bein]

I really like the charging battles 👍 However, I would appreciate a more "real world scenario" like this: Imaging you're on a road trip, you have 10% SoC but you have to go 100, 200, 300 or 400 km until home. How long do you have to charge? Take the 120 range test consumption as a base for the comparison (so no additional test needed) and with that you have the needed kWh for the distances. In the end I don't care too much if the eTron, Plaid or EQC charges more % faster, I want to be home earlier 🙂 So which car to choose for example in this case? I would guess for 100, 200 km it would be the Plaid, but for 300 or 400 - will it be the EQS?

[@alt572]

That's analysis that you would have to do yourself for your own routes. For Bjorn in Norway, probably the Plaid/LR would be fastest still, since there are many charging stations along main roads. Somewhere else, where you have to take a 5 min detour, the EQS might be faster. It is highly dependent on local factors like that, and is impossible to give a generally accurate answer

[@mikewilliams6467]

Tesla seem to go for the glory of the fastest charging rate, rather than the fastest charging time. It could be nice if cars would balance the charging rate to achieve the fastest charging time. For example. If you set the, or the navigation requires a, charge limit of >=90%, keep the peak charge rate lower to keep the rate higher at higher charge levels to reduce the overall charge time (i.e. a "flat" charge curve). But at the same time if your charge limit, or navigation requirement, is only 35% go balls to the wall. Given the battery sizes the EQS, iX, and e-tron all beat the Model S by quite some margin. Porsche I believe have a manual "charge more slowly" feature. I'm suggesting that but automated. The reasons I can think of why Elon wouldn't sign off on such a feature for Tesla vehicles aren't suitable for mention here.

[@u.wunschel7311]

❤ Love Germans Car ❤

[@commanderroddi7742]

Here is the thing: It took the audi about 80 min to get to 80 percent which would be (if we go with pure math) about about 230 miles (370 km) and the TEsla got that after about 19 minutes at 65% has about the same range as the Audi at 80% Having said that, being able on the USA to charge in a supercharger, I'd still take the audi!

[@krijar70]

Very rarely do you charge at a fast charger to a state of charge above 80%. And the Tesla beat them all to it😄 Tesla is the road trip king 👑

[@adrianguggisberg3656]

I think I still prefer the Hyundai charging curve.

[@rui569]

[@ivormectin515]

At 5.17, with the battery at 96%, the estimated range for the new Etron suddenly plummeted from 326 to 303 and then gradually climbed again, eventually hitting 332 at 100% compared to the old car at 330. What gives?

[@Maarten_vd]

But wow.. 303KM range for 100KW/h electricity... Audi should innovate with hoger efficiency, not just bigger battery.

[@bjornnyland]

5:17

[@WhatTheHex]

​@@wojciechkruzel6569 It is still odd as battery capacity is way higher in new model.. perhaps range estimate change is just a bug in software?

[@voksic13]

Estimate is based on past driving conditions.

[@biff2bart509]

@@wojciechkruzel6569 And on newer e-trons, it's also based heavily on ambient temperature. So, the new e-tron is reporting range at 0C: I don't know what the "old fat e-tron" external temperature was during the charging session. Also, I think the car was yo-yo'd before this session, which would decrease GOM range since kWh / km would be higher than average.

[@djbaaz]

xpeng g9 will be the new champion :D

[@reynoldichi1090]

Monster received 200kw

[@HansKruse]

Maybe add km of range besides the SUC%

[@frax7696]

Academic Last 3%

[@Maarten_vd]

The charging speeds expressed as KM/h > 600KM/h?? My old model 3 2019 is achieving 1600KM/h chargespeed the first 20% of charging. Why so slow in 2023?

[@Muztang289]

Temp in the batterypack is too low for max speed.

[@koomaj]

E-Tron is so thirsty.

[@Maarten_vd]

@@Muztang289 So it can charge faster than the 600KM/h when battery is hot?

[@DG-uv3zw]

@@Maarten_vd New model S is hitting 250kw, same as model 3...

[@Maarten_vd]

@@DG-uv3zw I have no doubt about that. But i was talking about chargespeed expressed as range added in KM/h charging. This difference of 600 vs 1600 is insane .....

[@OlavCleemann-himself]

LOL 😂

[@kingkoolkata]

Interesting to see that the curve of the plaid-battery is similar to the old 79kWh Tesla Model 3 Battery 🤔 it’s actually slower. My 2019 M3 drops below 100kW at around 68% SOC 🫣

[@Maarten_vd]

I think its very conservative indeed. Espacially as we know the battery is capable of discharging at 750KW.... (Or maybe this is the reason, limiting wear)