How Can You Limit And Compress A Dolby Atmos Mix?

[@PresentDayProduction]

Great video, Paul! We’re totally with you on the retaining dynamics approach - the ‘slam it into a clipper/limiter’ guys will always have stereo to crush 😉

[@theblowupdollsmusic]

Tastefully clipping before a limiter is a secret technique some of the big mastering engineers in the world use just to smooth out spiky digital transients before hitting the limiter. This is a different process than smashing it into a converter to clip for volume.

[@Limit5482]

Probably the best video you did….add in that you looked like you had a rough night at the pub the night before was awesome 😎

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

Or a long night at the studio. This was shot at 3am after a long night of mixing a film.

[@Limit5482]

@@AudioAnimalsStudio great stuff 👍

[@mattrixx_audio]

Great video, however, I think there are a couple of points that could potentially be described a little differently, so as to avoid some potential confusion, The first one where you refer to ceiling. ie -18LUFS. I think you mean that you are describing the average program level of the full duration of said program. The ceiling would be described as the True Peak, which on most music platforms appears to be either -3 or -3.5 dBTP. Not that you would even get close to that, if the average (or LUFS /LKFS) is sitting nicely at -18 to -19LUFS. The second one relates to clipping, or buss compression. You made the point that it would be really great if DOLBY included some kind of master chain in the Renderer to accommodate the need to link not only the Bed channel, but also the object channels that do not have anything to do with the 7.1.2 bed leaving Pro Tools. (I would really love this too ...and that it be could controlled from a Pro Tools plugin guide, such like the one that lets you control the Binaural render settings in the remote Renderer now, that you displayed) There are many ways around this, ie by having the exact same compressor and settings of on every Object channel and every channel of the 7.1.2 bed, all linked and being fed, by a sidechain send from every said channel (ie Everything)... It gets confusing, but there are even many "Atmos" compressor developers coming out that claim to be atmos mastering comps, that don't take the Objects into account. If someone goes into the exercise of mixing in DOLBY Atmos and doesn't realise all of these points, their fold downs are definitely not going to translate well down through the re-rendering formats and the metadata being generated by the Object banners and binaural settings of said objects are going to be pretty crazy out of whack. This is a great video Paul and I think you were alluding to and mentioned all of this, but I was hoping just to help a little in clarify for some people that may not understand the complexity of the issues, that make this such a different workflow to just smashing the traditional stereo master buss. Cheers, Matt

[@summerfazed]

I have a killer mix in UAD Luna that has nothing on the master buss and is -18 LUFS. I think I HAVE to have you master it in ATMOS :) Should I print the FX sends into the stems or would it be cool to have those separate? Guess it couldn't hurt to separate them.

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

It is better to separate them as we can then position those sends in the room independently from the dry sound.

[@ArielQuesada]

@@AudioAnimalsStudio and when you get a reverb stem you have to obviously up mixed it right? which plugin do you recommend for that purpose?

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

@@ArielQuesada halo upmix is really good

[@TheRetroBurn]

Hey, nice channel. I am having trouble including the meta data when I render out my ADM files. The option to "apply program level meta-data" is greyed out and when I load the ADM file into a new session, the audio is fine but the object meta-data is missing. Any idea why that would be?

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

@@TheRetroBurn this could be because you are importing the ADM as an audio file rather than session data.

[@TheRetroBurn]

@@AudioAnimalsStudio thanks I will research that. I'm new, like second month so I'm still learning some of the basics.

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

@@TheRetroBurn lots of people in the same boat. Atmos is a new format for many.

[@TheRetroBurn]

@@AudioAnimalsStudio it worked! That was really quick. Thank you so much. What a relief. Lol! I will pay it forward to another noobie.

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

@@TheRetroBurn great to hear.

[@gabrialjones5541]

Hey I have logic and I started mixing in Dolby Atmos. But I need help because in my mix there’s areas in my mix that it gets quieter and then loud in certain areas. How can I fix that?

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

What speaker configuration are you using?

[@gabrialjones5541]

@@AudioAnimalsStudio KRK speakers

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

@@gabrialjones5541 how many of them. What is the configuration?

[@The1mars1]

''@@AudioAnimalsStudio ....What speaker configuration are you using ..... KRK speakers...... goodness me...some here lack of basic terminology knowledge and jumping from 2.0 mixing to Atmos.. without doing any mixes 5.1

[@okay1904]

I really like your channel. You have brought me to face one reality - Excellent Audio mixing and mastering and music production in general, is not a cheap endeavour. If you want to be excellent at this, one will need to acquire good quality tools, and the best of these can be expensive. Not a hobby or profession for those who want to cut corners. Listening to you has improved my resolve to be the best and have the best. We only live once, so we might as well be good at what we do, and aim for the best experience possible. Thank you, for weaning me off the opinion that digital technology alone will save me money. Excellent tools like very good microphones, preamps and speakers, as well as a well treated room will need non trivial investments, and there are no shortcuts in physics. None.

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

Really pleased this is what you've taken from the channel

[@siddantsharma3681]

how much ram and cpu core would u recoomend for streo mixing mastering as well as atmos?

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

This really depends on the session size. A mac m2 ultra with 64gb of ram runs very smooth all the way up to 100 stems. For small sessions, a standard m1 with 32gb is perfectly good enough.

[@joeyramonelookalike]

I read in forums that you cannot use hardware processing when mixing in dolby atmos, is there any truth to this?

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

Some truth in this. You do not have a physical stereo bus to apply processing over. You cab however apply stereo analogue processing before summing to the atmos renderer. You can not apply analogue summing as this is only 2 channel and Dolby Atmos is 128 channel.

[@joeyramonelookalike]

@@AudioAnimalsStudio hmm so you process with hardware each track, print in your DAW, send prints to DA, use DA to place in surround (an maybe process with plugins 128 times), render final mix (right?). Is the rendered version stereo or 128? how do you integrate hardware for mastering?

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

@@joeyramonelookalike no none of this is right. There is zero DA conversion unless you use inserts to analogue processing. Mastering in stereo sense to use analogue hardware is done in exactly the same way as stereo mastering using the binaural stereo print from the renderer. There's a lot to get your head around with atmos mixing. Would be too hard to explain in a comment. It's all about changing how you think. You are currently thinking in stereo terms. I'd advise watching some videos on atmos mixing as this will give you a better understanding of the fundamentals. Then you'll understand my comment better.

[@joeyramonelookalike]

@@AudioAnimalsStudio thanks. By DA I meant Dolby Atmos, not digital to analogue (sorry for the confusion). As to the mastering, I was under the impression the binaural print is an alternative to the final Dolby Atmos file (atnos.IR), no? (Meaning a stereo-ish version for headphones and not the full version for a surround system). I'm trying to figure out if hardware becomes useless for Dolby Atmos if your files ( .atmosIR) are not stereo anymore, specially at the mastering stage.

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

@Joey Ramone the binaural stereo file is stereo and is not technically full Dolby Atmos multiple speakers. The binaural stereo file is what you will hear playing on streaming platforms. Being stereo this mix can then be mastered in exactly the same way you would a stereo mix mixed in stereo. The ADM atmos master is multi channel up to 128 channels. To answer your question you do not need any analogue processing to mix in atmos. Analogue gear is best used for stereo mastering only.

[@scotteglasel6077]

You can use the new Album Assembler to limit your ADM files

[@patrickbygrave9082]

Thank you, great information .

[@theblowupdollsmusic]

Clipping is useful as a first stage before your final limiter, because spiky digital transients are not the most pleasing feeding into software compression or limiting. Some of the best mastering engineers in the world use clipping as a first stage in the mastering chain for this reason. Obviously this is a totally different process compared to using clipping is the last stage for loudness war volume.

[@audiokemestry]

So it sounds like its not possible to incorporate analog gear into the Atmos mixing/mastering process at this point...at least until they add the architecture for some type of bus system.

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

You would need a 128 channel analogue processor for Dolby Atmos mastering. Just doesn't make sense to create one. You can still use stereo and mono analogue processors at the Dolby Atmos mix stage you just can't across the master bus.

[@QFXmusic]

Wish they apple would play fair as a lot of major artists are getting above -18lufs some as much as 3 to 5 lugs louder.. Level playing field lol I think not Good video

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

I think as professionals, we need to stand strong on this.

[@QFXmusic]

@@AudioAnimalsStudio I totally agree but someone needs to tell apple :( As a level playing field is one way that atmos will win over stereo ... We do not need another loudness war we need dynamics :)

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

@@QFXmusic 100%

[@NoQualmsTheArtist]

So do you not master your Atmos mixes?

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

Atmos mastering is very different to stereo mastering. You would need a 128 channel Limiter

[@NoQualmsTheArtist]

@@AudioAnimalsStudio so essentially you are advocating for a format that will make half of your business obsolete? Especially since -18lufs is mixing levels of loudness. Hopefully this won't be the case somehow, not being able to use such beautiful expensive gear would be a waste, and a step backwards even though the format is a step forwards 🤔

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

@@NoQualmsTheArtist the industry will change and as engineers we need to adapt which is why we have this atmos room so early in the game when everyone else is just thinking about getting one. Stereo isn't obsolete it'll always be required. A song doesn't release in just atmos. It also has a stereo version. The two go hand in hand.

[@mattrixx_audio]

@@NoQualmsTheArtist You would have to make the choice in the case of the "beautiful expensive gear", where by you would use it in or on the discrete channels of something and print. I think Paul's description is good and eludes to the fact that there is no master buss. The objects need to be taken into account and if metadata (panner and distance data) associated with the object tracks is not respected, then the Dolby Renderer, which is reading/sticking with that data.... is giving you... well, will be not what you were shooting for.... and the downward deliverables especially definitely won't...ie 5.1, 2.1, 2.0 & Binaural,.

[@NoQualmsTheArtist]

@@mattrixx_audio this was 9 months ago. I have totally come onboard since then. I now own a complete Atmos studio. I actually like the fact there is no master bus, I much prefer the dynamics in an Atmos mix.

[@earledaniels4539]

No more than - 18 LUFS integrated and maximum - 1 dB true peak.

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

Yes that is correct

[@NorteWeb]

Sorry but there is a lot of easy ways for you to explain that... And you are right into a certain point, and wrong in other point... You are right in about 128 channels... But those 128 channels are called objects, and it is includs the bed... If im not wrong it is a bad of 10 channels fixed... And the other 118 objects will rung on the bad... That leaves a 10 channels master... The objects you select what you need to do with them... I am only a hobbist...

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

No, that's not correct. The objects do not sum into the bed. This is bad information. The bus is 128 channels consisting of 10 channels in the bed and 118 channels as objects. The objects are their own channels. The master bus would be 128 channels. If the master bus was 10 channels, how would you playback the atmos master on a system larger than 10 channels. A 10 channel atmos master using only the bed will only ever playback a 7.1.2 system.

[@NorteWeb]

@@AudioAnimalsStudio and how you play a 128 channels? Do you have 128 speakers In your studio? No, you may have 9.2.6...

[@NorteWeb]

@@AudioAnimalsStudio this is very funny but there is when binaural comes in...

[@NorteWeb]

@@AudioAnimalsStudio if I am wrong, than explain it to me... Because in this video your not explaining this...

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

@NorteWeb your understanding of atmos needs some getting your head around a few critical things. The atmos renderer plays back all 128 channel to the speakers. You are mistaking the speaker configuration as a master bus. This isn't the case. The whole point of atmos is that it is object based. This means that 118 objects can move across speaker configuration. One atmos master plays back on a 7.1.2 system as well as a 30.1.12 system. This is a fundamental aspect of atmos you need to get your head around. It'll click as you work on the format more.