Don't Make this Multi-Subwoofer Placement Mistake - Get Better Bass

[@Eric_the_Hiking]

From suboptimal to sub optimal. I will see myself out.

[@andrewvigil2040]

I flippin’ love that! :p

[@philkelly8261]

Good idea!

[@PracticalMinimalist]

Excellent pun

[@raymondboudreau]

I hate this… but I have to give the like.

[@sage11x]

No off switch for genius.

[@SantanKGhey1234]

i have a 2.2 system and had my setup Main-Sub-Amp-Sub-Main... i moved one of my subs from in board to the corner wall to the side... the improvement was significant, tighter, fuller and not as much gain needed... thank you

[@Maxime-ho9iv]

I would have loved to see the frequency response when the 2 subs are placed in the corners.

[@MovieViking]

In a rectangular room it depends on which corners as well as their distances to the listening position ;-) REW has a simulator than comes pretty close at the results I get when measuring.

[@qua7771]

There's always a doorway or something making ideal conditions impossible. Whoever is designing home floor plans doesn't get it! Unless you purchase a custom built home with theater space, these kinds of videos only add to the frustration of working with what we have.

[@PradeepJThoppil]

Shocking the omission on NOT showing both subs in the corners! Lack of logic as it would have tracked with the benefit showing ONE sub in the corner..

[@joker927]

It was a hard lesson to learn that what looked good did not measure well. I decided to keep my nice looking symmetrical sub-center-sub front but added two more subs in the rear room corners. Flat response at every seat now!

[@michaeldelaney6256]

This is the most "DAD" youtube page ever!! Love it!! Never miss a video!! Cant wait for more audio advice colabs!!! KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!!

[@cigarobsession]

Excellent points! Unfortunately the biggest hurdle I see is people not willing or able to invest the time and small cost to learn and use REW.

[@TheoNicolakis]

No doubt. For those who don’t know or have the time to learn REW, I recommend using a strong playlist of songs to help play the room and following some of these general guidelines. It can get you quite a way towards the goal.

[@msoles30]

I have been trying to contact you cigar for rew questions

[@msoles30]

Not too many videos online with people using Yamaha and rew

[@TheSamDickey]

What microphone do you recommend? All I have is a blue yeti but that really doesn’t seem ideal for this sort of testing

[@ryant32u]

@@TheSamDickey umik-1 from DSP

[@Adream-lf3mw]

Theo is by far the most likeable and best presenter on the channel and he knows how to summarize the relevant info in under 15 minutes. He doesn't put the audience to sleep lecturing for over an hour when you can get the same points across in short time.

[@Audioholics]

Yep he's an asset to Audioholics and a great person and friend.

[@TheoNicolakis]

Blessed to be part of the Audioholics team and like you all learning from Gene, Matt, James and everyone else who contributes to this fabulous hobby. All of us should be thankful to Gene for his vision and passion, which has impacted this industry and product design to our benefit.

[@SealedOrPorted]

Optimizing sub placement is quite contrary to most people’s sense of symmetry whilst being paramount to auditory bliss. As proven in this video, it’s not the cost or quality of equipment so much as it is physics. Once subs are optimized into a virtual sub, it is imperative the other channels are phase aligned with it. Successfully accomplished, imaging and detail make one’s cinema room seem much larger because the sound is so big.

[@lucasrem]

In the 90 ish days, we did just one Sub for the entire room, now we have better Codecs, able to hear where it comes from. If you place the Sub behind the screen in the centre, it a perfect position too, not needing dual subs!

[@MovieViking]

@@lucasrem You didn't watch the video? It is unlikely that one sub placed front centre can be optimal as it will be symmetrically placed between your main speakers - and also the codecs have nothing to do with localising low frequencies. You can find a lot of relevant and correct material on the relevant acoustics online, just look for Earl Geddes, Floyd E. Toole and Todd Welti.

[@texxhexxmm]

I have two identical subs mid wall Placement.A pro told me that nowadays it pretty common two have Them 180° and 0° phase. I use Dirac Bass Control and did a new measurment with different Phase settings.Whats your opinion?😊

[@wayneiceman]

Well done on this video guys. Interesting to hear your thoughts on 3 subs as well

[@TheoNicolakis]

Wayne, Using three subs is always an option. If you corner load two of the subs you can put the third one at the midpoint of the opposite wall as a general rule. Anthony Grimani talks about this in one of his videos on the channel here if I’m not mistaken. The main point being that the addition of 2, 3, or four subs helps you get rid of nulls that you otherwise can’t EQ and improve the bass performance across multiple seats.

[@wayneiceman]

@@TheoNicolakis thank you sir. That's exactly how I have it. The third is behind my seat. When you talk about the subs being on either side of the centre, is it more to do with distance or placement?

[@TheoNicolakis]

@@wayneiceman what you’re really doing is playing the room. A theme I like to reiterate is that the speakers and room are an organic whole. The whole point is that what looks good (what we see in photos for marketing) may not sound good in actuality. Consequently one may be leaving peak performance on the table.

[@michaelwright1602]

Separate areas of the room here, kind of kitty corner, two SVS SB3000 subs, works great for two channel.

[@josephfranzen5626]

Theo! Great to hear from you man! I love seeing you on live streams too buddy you’re very insightful. I can’t tell you how many home theaters I’ve setup and calibrated where once I properly place the multi subs the client goes “Holy crap” even years ago when I added a MiniDSP HD to my 4 sub setup it was a moment of clarity.

[@TheoNicolakis]

Thanks Joseph 😁. Isn’t it just beyond words when the subs just “snap” into place? It’s a magical moment and compels you to listen to your favorite songs all over again.

[@josephfranzen5626]

@@TheoNicolakis Absolutely! The first time I ever experienced it stands out as one of my favorite A/V centric memories

[@stephenfrancisvoros382]

My YAMAHA RX-A3070 has 2 separate subwoofer outs, I use monaural x2 configuration, whilst running a sound generator for LFE, I set the first of my 4 subs up into my listening position, then did at 3 different levels of height, the subwoofer crawl, first on my knee's and hand's, then on my knee's and finally standing up, taking note of best bass positioning, placed one sub at a time in the appropriate position, each sub then running in conjunction with listening position sub, subwoofer crawl each time until last sub in listening position had a place to live, determined by the last subwoofer crawl, out of the 4 subs only one is on the floor, two at waist height and the last one at chest height, I have a near perfect bass curve, my 4k dedicated atmos set up, is in an open plan living area, that is a big area, with no regular shape to it all, but I've made it work so well, THANKS to sites like this AUDIOHOLICS and a few others on KZbin. 👏👏👏

[@BoredSilly666]

Another Great Video Thanks. Opposite Corners Front and Rear gives me best response in my room by a long way. Ive pulled them away from the Corner a few feet when adjusting final set up.

[@Novilicious]

I use a Rel 3D system with 5 subs connected over high level. Simply stellar but 💯 percent agree with multi sub!

[@whitecrowuk575]

Did you use room correction with high connections on? REL advises against it…

[@aussie8114]

I have one sub, a REL. It was horrible when placed in a corner, placed it in a more open position and it became awesome.

[@C--A]

Using REW will show you how your Subwoofer performs in a location in your room. You may not have liked a subwoofer in the corner. But it may or may not have been better in the corner depending on your room dimensions and seating position.

[@aussie8114]

@@C--A It was too boomy in the corner. Placing it in a more open area got rid of the loose boomy effect. Now it performs very well for both music and movies.

[@howardskeivys4184]

I’m a 2 channel man. A minimalist and a purest. My 2 subs are placed on the inside edge of my 2 floor standers. I appreciate that corner placement is ideal, but that is not an option for me. I purchased my subs at the sane time as my substantial floor standers, but they were delivered 8 weeks later. That afforded me the opportunity to get my floorstanders dialled in and allowed me to become familiar with their sonic signature an how they interacted with the room. My room is 21 feet long, 19 feet wide and 7.5 feet high with a 12 feet by 6 feet open plan kitchen making the room L-shaped. The floor is solid concrete topped with hard wood. The ceiling, which separates my ground floor apartment from the apartment above is solid concrete. My walls are plasterboard with one long wall being all window from 3 feet up. As you can doubtless gather, far from ideal. I have no room treatment other than a large plush rug, placed in front of and between my floorstanders. I don’t employ DSP or any other form of electronic or digital correction. I believe that room treatment can and will alter your room acoustics. Whether you prefer those alterations is a matter of personal preference and taste! Anyways, when my subs arrived it took a couple of months of trial and error and experimentation to get them dialled in to my liking. Their placement was non negotiable! However I did manage to achieve a full range, well balanced and pleasing musical reproduction. I don’t have the luxury of a separate listening room. My hifi has to fight for it’s right to be in our family lounge. A couple of months ago, I updated our 2 and 3 seater leather recliner sofas for smaller and lighter, 2 and 3 seater static fabric sofas. They killed the rooms ambiance. Made the listening experience, well, more intimate. It didn’t bode well with me, but I knew I’d have to learn to like this new intimate musical reproduction as the sofas were here for the foreseeable future. I then purchased a 3rd sub, a downfiring sub, which I placed centrally along the rear wall, behind my listening position and opposite my stereo subs. It did take some dialling in. This included readjusting my original subs, but the combination works. Do I have even bass distribution throughout my room? Well, the only measuring equipment I use is my ears, but the answer is no. However, at my listening position, where I do 99% of my attentive listening, the musical reproduction is superb, or should I say, suits my listening preference. I’m guessing that many of your subscribers are in a situation not unlike my own, far from ideal when it comes to placement of subs and lack of room correction. Be assured that with the right components and a little time, effort, trial and error and experimentation, it is perfectly feasible to achieve pleasing results. Enjoy the music.s

[@joepokro4824]

Sounds like you have a nice setup. I'm a 2 Chanel guy too 99%music That 3rd sub behind you definitely going to help spread the pressure out Throughout the room. Have you tried raising your front subs up off the floor? If possible assuming they are not down firing, it will improve SQ. Did for my set up. I would think with concrete above and below it would conciderably be even better for you. Subs are pressurizing devices and having them coupled to the floor kinda waste some of that energy.

[@johnpoo1662]

10:05 for those who dont have such an AVR or want to spend money on a miniDSP, you can achieve the same by playing with the phase dial on the subs.👍

[@michaelwright1602]

That is what I did with my SB3000's, a pair. It really settled them in. I have the KLH Model 5's with a complete Denafrips system, and quite honestly, I could probably lose the subs and only I would know.

[@johnpoo1662]

@@johndaddabbo9383 i assume 99% of AVRs have settings for delay, xover, levels. the continuous-phase dial allows you to achieve the same effect as an independent sub delay, on a budget.

[@Schubeedoobee]

those nulls in the sub center sub is NOT related to placement of the center channel... it's because when you separate LF sources, you introduce natural cancellation and comb filtering.

[@johntownsend9861]

It's nice to have a normal cinema review that the average person can relate to. Nice one👍

[@aussierob7177]

Because sub-woofers are an extension of your main 2 stereo speakers, I have the subs mounted on top of 18 inch metal stands. The main 2 stereo speakers sit on top of the subs with a combination of metal and rubber conical feet. There is no vibration reaching the stereo speakers.

[@sebulbathx]

Awesome video. I got to bookmark this for future tweaking, thanks!

[@joesabato9736]

I ended up doing a lot of REW runs to find the best spots for my Loft system. While it is basically rectangular, the back is open to a 10,000+ cu ft open plan below it, and one side is open to a 40 ft long hallway. I ended up at roughly 1/4 and 3/4 on the uninterrupted side wall for the most even response at the 3 seat MLP couch. Unusual layouts just take more work to figure out, but it can be done.

[@jrep88]

Good video. I used the REW room simulator to find the general areas which would produce the best frequency response. Worked great and also reduced the bass decay time as well.

[@doublet147]

Great video covering the bass-ics! 🔊

[@raspeaker3941]

Great video. It was refreshing to hear someone concede that there are a variety of practical concerns that most such videos do not address.

[@tomcavanaugh5237]

That asymmetrical configuration from the Denon setup image would really bug me.

[@TheoNicolakis]

There is no question aesthetics and symmetry sometimes play a role. I think we need to give a nod to Denon and Marantz for bucking the aesthetic trend to show the better practice.

[@ryanschipp8513]

Theo! Good seeing you. More Theo Gene!

[@brandobond]

Overview videos like this are great for beginners (they helped me out when I was getting started a couple years ago) but I would also like to see some deeper dive videos. How about a video showing how to use MSO (Multi Sub Optimizer) to optimize seat to seat bass consistency? How about a video showing how to time align the subs to the other speakers (using REW maybe)?

[@TheoNicolakis]

Thanks for the suggestions. Please keep them coming. I’ll be doing more such omvideos on the channel and I know Gene will see your suggestions that I think are excellent. Time aligning the subs can make a key difference in maximizing performance.

[@scott1063]

I learned enough REW to allow me to properly use Multi Sub Optimizer. It’s a great tool that delivers what would be very difficult to do with REW alone. Once you get the process down, you can find the best placement and then optimize the listening area.

[@brandobond]

@@scott1063 I've actually used both MSO and REW but I learned from random tutorials I found by people I don't know or trust. Just hoping to see videos from the experts at Audioholics so I can double check that everything I did was correct and to see if they have any tips or best practices I don't know about.

[@mnadeem500]

The slight bit of increase in total output by moving one to the corner would be outweighed by the unbalance created and loss of symmetry in the sound stage.

[@nathanc6516]

Why would anyone want to put the bass between their left right and center channels? All that does is create more low end soundwaves between your left right and center channels which will distort the mix. Put them on the outside of your L/R speakers.

[@danmaier2077]

Great Video ! Thanks 🙏 Greetings from Austria 🇦🇹 Europe

[@Joshualbm]

I've never cared about home theater and probably never really will. But 2 channel music is very important to me. What I've noticed is that each of the 2 subs really needs to be balance with the its nearest speaker. Each sid of the roob has different loading and room effect characteristics. Once this is done with both phase and levels, it's magical. Single subwoofer setups actually degrade what's potential. If your main speakers are crossed in at, say, 50Hz and you have a sub on one side of the room, well the speaker on the other side will never be in phase as well as the one closest to the sub. So many systems treat bass as a monaural source. But it just plain isn't. Simple soundstage arranges such as a bass player on the left, drummer on the right... etc, will all have audible and spacial cues that are much more realistic and impactful. It will seem like your room got wider and deeper.

[@Audioholics]

I agree 2 subs is always better than 1 for critical 2CH listening. It makes it so you can't kicakize the bass coming from one location and also smooths the response across more seats.

[@xhesicadx]

Awesome thank you!! I just tried this and it worked wonders for my setup. Very much appreciated.

[@texxhexxmm]

What about both behind Main Listening Position or diagonal?

[@koolkiwikat]

Mini DSP for the WIN!

[@TylerStout]

Made this same mistake. Put subs where they looked best but it wasn't until I got a UMIK-1 that I realized how useless having two was with them there. Moved to opposing corners and it was like I got new subs then adding the miniDSP was the final touch.

[@modernbassheads5051]

I have an open living room, behind my is the front door to the house and a hallway that leads into the kitchen, other living room, and main area. In front of me to the left is a giant opening for the dining area and patio , any ideas how I could find the best method

[@cpa889900]

I have two MartinLogan 1100x subs in each corner. I ran the Yamaha YPAO but my subs were still out of balance. I considered purchasing acoustic panels but purchased the ML Perfect Bass Kit instead. The Perfect Bass Kit solved my problem and now my system sounds amazing. I cannot recommend the bass kit enough.

[@TheoNicolakis]

Anthem’s ARC, which underpins the Martin Logan PBK is a great technology.

[@brendanvinsent6069]

Is it okay to mix subwoofer models in a dual subwoofer setup? (Currently using one Klipsch R-120SW 12" and thinking of either getting the same model or the R112SW) Also my goal is to achieve more of a rumbling feel when i'm sitting on my furniture, will adding a second sub actually help with this?

[@rdj1416]

I have powered LCR speakers with built in subwoofers in each. Should I add external subwoofers? Thank you!!!

[@fumpt]

Is it true that achieving an even decay time across the frequency spectrum is also relevant to achieving a natural and tight sub bass response? I’d like to learn more about the relationship between a flat response and decay time if that’s relevant.

[@Audioholics]

Stay tuned for a video I just did on 2CH audio that shows wavelets and RT60 times covering this topic.

[@matthewjsparks]

Hey, Theo. I've downloaded the pink noise files. Which file do I play to level my speakers after running Audessey, and how do I play it in each of the 7.1 channels? Also, have you come across the timing issue that, some say, exists in Denon/Marantz receivers? The argument is that they used an incorrect speed of sound, and the distance measurement should be multiplied by .875 to adjust the timing. I'm not sure why that would change anything other than the overall delay, but I'm no expert. Any guidance? 🙏

[@TheoNicolakis]

I have discussed this issue with folks and hope to address it with a forthcoming Audyssey video. The info I’ve received is SET YOUR AVR TO METERS NOT FEET so that there is no conversion.

[@PradeepJThoppil]

My first audiohokicd KZbin video watched, and it was great! I’ve been on the forum for years, and finally just getting a formal Home theater room set up after decades of having living room set ups. I have one massive subwoofer corner, loaded in the back right corner of the room, but it’s too localized and doesn’t seem even. I have a lesser ported sub that I can throw into the room, perhaps in the front 1/3 corner, on the inside of the right main tower. Thoughts?

[@housbinpharteen7445]

the problem with moving one sub to the corner and moving say the left main speaker in it will get in the way of the screen ... that is why most put the SUB , CENTER , SUB config because it fits under the screen , .. unless you have enough room to move the subs out and mains in more

[@jgsabato]

With my front stage being crowded on the narrow wall, the best places for my 2 subs were on the right wall of the room; one just forward of the front stage and the second in the plane of the MLP couch. A lot of REW runs trying out possible locations made decisions easier. Another tip, when I did my REW measurements, I measured all 3 seats on the couch and looked at the average and individual readings for each location. Several of the locations had a better looking average curve than the final pick, but had a deep and sometimes wide null in the right seat location. I used a location where the average curve was less flat, but all 3 individuals looked close; that way later, when EQ was applied, all 3 seats were similarly improved.

[@lucasrem]

What did you finally do?, just place them out next to the left and right speakers? small room ?

[@jgsabato]

They ended up on the right wall at about 25% and 75% positions of the room depth. The room is 13.5' x 17.5' with the front stage on the narrow wall. The back of the room is open to the great room below ( it is a loft area ) ans the last 7 ft of the left wall are open to a long hallway, so not a small space. When you have a totally enclosed room with a flat ceiling, the studies done by HARMAN on sunwoofer placement and numbers works well. If you have a variant with large openings, vaulted ceilings etc, trial an error are necessary to get the best out of a system.

[@daeejon3100]

I have a 12× 24 I'm deciding between jl gotham v2 and perlisten d215s any recommendations please? Thank you

[@jarkiro]

I have a very mixed use setup, 2.1 at the moment and looking for a sub upgrade. We do a lot of listening very off AXIS in the kitchen, I'm leaning towards a 2.2 setup in hopes that the sound will be much more even way off axis but I'm not sure if that's true to that extent.

[@dandonna852]

Can do you a video changing distances in subwoofer setup to get batter bass ?

[@HeavyMetalSonicRM]

What is the official Audioholics verdict on measuring subs with the oldschool Radioshack SPL? I've read that a sub reading of 72 is equivalent to 75. I did my measurement to 72db with both subs on, but should I measure them one at a time? Thanks!

[@TheoNicolakis]

I’ll kick it to Gene for his opinion, but I am a big fan of the RadioShack SPL and still have one. It’s a great tool and have no qualms with anyone continuing to use it. My personal opinion would be if you are looking to measure all your speakers to the same SPL the RadioShack works just great. If you are looking to use tools like REW then I would suggest investing in one of the standard USB microphones. If that’s not an option then just take care to calibrate your sound card with the RadioShack SPL meter.

[@markpocock183]

Bear in mind that A weighting decreases sensitivity at low frequencies. If possible use C, Z or flat.

[@midevil1980]

Great video; very well done! 😀👍

[@WillyLax24]

Does this advice apply the same for two channel stereo?

[@TheoNicolakis]

Yes it does.

[@fumpt]

Is it true that placing speakers near room boundaries - and especially in corners - excites (more) room modes, which exacerbates the peaks and nulls, resulting in less even bass? And therefore avoiding boundaries and corners is more likely to result in a more even sound?

[@fumpt]

@@johndaddabbo9383 thank you for sharing your experience. Much appreciated

[@kman7222]

great informative video, keep them coming.

[@hooch1111]

Your chart says "denon pure direct", which turns bass management off, and likely your sub-woofers not even getting any signals. Unless you use "lfe+main" mode, which is very tricky to get right, since bass goes to both mains and subs - so I think nulls you were getting could be due to your fancy receiver setup, not even related to subs placement.

[@MovieViking]

I don't know why it says "pure direct", but I assure you those nulls are acoustic nulls. Can easily be shown in REW.

[@lucasrem]

i did dual Sub setup, Yamaha SW 300. They are next to the giant center Left and right speakers, only the centre speaker in the middle. The room is only 70 square meters, overkill, i love it, only on 40% max, but it can do 100 % without any distortions too.

[@adresc5391]

I read several articles where subwoofer should be closer to ear level like main speakers and the rest of the surround speakers. Not including vertical surround effect speakers like Dolby Atmos

[@MovieViking]

Plain wrong. Look up the research by Floyd E. Toole, Earl Geddes and Todd Welti.

[@dragonfly-f6x]

Is placing in room : 2 of dual opposing subwoofers same as placing 2 of front loading subwoofers ? Thanks

[@johnlira3316]

Great vid ? When u have both in the front what should we set the phase at 1 at 0 and the other at 180??

[@TheoNicolakis]

If both subwoofers are at the front with the main speakers the general rule of thumb is to set them both to zero.

[@jacobsteele7138]

If my dual subs are on side walls facing each other do I leave the phase at 0 on each?

[@josephlewandowski4191]

My Subs are placed outside my right and left main speakers about 12 ft apart I'm wondering if that's better than having them next to the center Channel

[@kewlbug]

Half of this is a waste if you aren't time aligning the subs. The best "unaligned" response is not necessarily the same as the best "aligned" response you can get. Your worst response could even be the best position if you have to flipp phase on one (or multiple).

[@rafaelsmith681]

In the video you mention that subs flanking the center can sometimes satisfy the 1/4 3/4 "rule" curious what is considered "narrow"?. My room is 18x12 and have pair of HSU 15in at the 1/4 and 3/4 spots along the front 12ft wall. LCR are identical PSA MT110s

[@Packer1290]

Just got my 2nd sub earlier this year. Now their recommending 4. Wife is definitely not going to go for that!

[@simianinc]

Hi, thanks for the informative video. What about dual subs like the Kef KC62 which fire in two directions - presumably the corners are less than ideal? What it be the 1/4 and 3/4 then?

[@vader540is]

Great video. Nice graded comics in the background.

[@kmidst_kn6329]

Thanks for this! I used the two sub placement you recommend and it was an instant improvement. The bass sounds great. It fills the room and has fairly consistent output across the sub range

[@TheoNicolakis]

Fabulous!

[@CSO3DOnline]

great presentation to the overview of multi-sub! I've also seen stacking subwoofers being more and more popular, can this be the topic to discuss if it's actually beneficial?

[@SolarisUK]

Stackings subs gives you more output and will feel like just 1 big sub.

[@slimjim1104]

If you stack in multiple locations like front and rear corner for example it wont sound as over bearing from one location. I prefer to run my 4 one in each corner.

[@FSXgta]

I think it's always better to separate to get the smoother response. Unless you have a stack with different crossovers like some do

[@jarodreddig63]

Nice video Theo.

[@michael-4k4000]

Question: I have a 12" Paradigm ported sub. Want to add a 2nd sub, do I have to add another ported sub?

[@MovieViking]

Yes, and identical, otherwise phase problems will be abundant

[@joelane4670]

Hey guys, I know you covered us in other videos but, this adussey room correction is really screwing up my sound. Is there anyway I can just reset and just do this manually.? I have prime center and satellite with a SB 1000. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

[@matthewjsparks]

You can reset your receiver, not run Audessey when prompted, and enter manual set up. You should measure your distances and compare them to the Audessey measurements. Remember, that it's actually a timing thing, so they may differ a little. You can also just turn Audessey off, under the Audio menu.

[@msoles30]

What software is used for those subwoofer frequency test screenshots

[@fumpt]

Taking a guess: REW

[@TheoNicolakis]

Yes, REW.

[@msoles30]

@@TheoNicolakis wow how did you do that

[@Squishmallows24]

Unfortunately for me I don’t have options for optimal sub placement. My 2 subs are in the front next to each floor speaker. The left one feels more oomph lol while the left one is noticeably weaker and it’s annoying

[@truman4956]

What about multiple sub setup for two channel systems without bass management tools? And is it better to invest in a third sub or acoustic treatments?

[@TheoNicolakis]

The same holds true with two channel setups in terms of bass…though the setup is a bit different and differs with the speaker-sub setup. I’m going to be doing a video on this with two Perlisten D212S subs with Revel Ultima2 Salon

[@vitalismunchen5740]

3/4 placment for two subs? 3/4 would bepretty inward?

[@T-Bird1]

When placing subs in the corners should they be toed in and if so, how much?

[@TheoNicolakis]

No need to toe in subs.

[@cszulu2000]

What would happen if you had the subs under the sofa or where the sofa table is?

[@kittydukakis]

Notes below 100 hz are omnidirectional. He would a subwoofer enhance imaging?

[@Audioholics]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4nCn2mhfJ55hcU

[@djparra41]

Omni directional has nothing to do with peaks and nulls.

[@kittydukakis]

@@djparra41 I am not talking about peaks and dips. I am talking about imaging which is what was claimed in the video and was even one of the bullet points. If you don't know what imaging is, please Google it.

[@TheoNicolakis]

@@kittydukakis fellow Greek? Watch the video Gene linked featuring Matt Poes. Matt as usual does a great job expanding the topic. Stereo bass more properly defined is the sense of spaciousness and envelopment you get.

[@williamkramer9069]

Great Solo video by Theo! Well supported information. Is it possible to smile any less though? 🤣

[@Audioholics]

Theo's heart is filled with joy. I'm very envious 😉

[@pb24dagrk]

It's easy being happy when you eat souvlaki and drink ouzo every day

[@TheoNicolakis]

@@pb24dagrk nothing better than Greek food.

[@TheoNicolakis]

Proper sub placement is always a cause to smile

[@nainghtetsoeyi7440]

I thought it was straight forward to implement stereo bass with two subwoofers and two sub out on AV receiver. I was so wrong. I bought the second sub and just realise my AV receiver have two sub out with one independent :(.

[@jimmykaka89]

I have a question regarding the ideal placement guidelines. It says corners or midpoint or 1/4 or 3/4 points. Forgive me if I’m missing something here but isn’t that then 1/4 (left corner) 2/4 (midpoint) 3/4 then 4/4 (right corner) so basically all points along the wall? Please enlighten me as to what I’m missing here. Love this channel and all your work 💪💪

[@TheoNicolakis]

Corner = Corner. 1/4 means measuring the wall-let's say it's 10-feet-and then you put the subs at 2.5 foot and 7.5 foot points along the wall. Midpoint would be 5-foot mark.

[@joekool5676]

Hello Theo and Gene, I have two 12 inch subs with Marantz sr8015. At first had both subs up front at 1/4 and 3/4 but the moved one to the back left and increase in output and tightness. However when I turn the front sub off it does seem to reduce the sound quality or pressure which makes me want to stack both subs in back corner as that location seems to produce best output. I know I lose multi sub benefits but additional sub in different location doesn't seem to add to spl. Am I missing something?

[@3DaysTillGrace]

Let’s say you have 2 subwoofers. If you place them in different places, then the bass will about as loud as 1 subwoofer, but the bass will be flatter (which might sound better for most songs/movies) and the bass will sound better in more listening positions. If you stack both the subs in the same location, then the output will be increased, but then you will have the same issues you had with only one subwoofer: the bass won’t be flat (it will be lacking in some frequencies and boomy in other frequencies), and as you walk around the room (or sit in different locations) the bass will go from alright to terrible. The smaller the room, the more this effect is noticed. It’s counter intuitive, but the smaller the room, the more subwoofers you want. Unless if you are outside in your backyard, any room (even a HUGE living room) will benefit tremendously from multiple subwoofers.

[@joepokro4824]

If you think it would work, try it. Lol Depending on the size of your room if it pressurizes your room it will work. Actually a smaller room; because it has less cubic feet to fill, one sub or one location is more of a possibility. Boom is mostly effect from the room. I put my 2 12s 1/3 of total distance from border walls opposite Corners to get best SQ. But it's a 2 ch system. If I would do HT I would probably stack them in the corner of the front wall. Which I definitely spent time with them there More of a Max output situation but I only have a sofa and listening chair for seats. So I don't have to worry about balanced bass for the entire room.

[@3DaysTillGrace]

@@joepokro4824 the smaller the room, the more subwoofers you need to create an even response.

[@joepokro4824]

@@3DaysTillGrace Multiple is of course always better. But basic physics will tell you, in a small room a single sub is going to work better than it will in a large room. There are formulas to determine square footage a sub can have it's best performance in and if that is close to the rooms square footage it's going to pressurizing the entire room good enough. All though be it not as balanced as multiple subs can get it.

[@leighagnello7993]

Can I do 2/4 & 4/4???

[@Tweel_Weight_Plate]

Dampen any metal on metal contact that you can. You'll be surprised how much quieter racking the bar is on presses, squats, and deadlifts when the contact points are muted.

[@grantcooper1465]

Thanks again for all your advice, using REW and taking the time to correctly setup duel subs has made a massive improvement in my room, was looking at upgrading the two SVS PB2000 Pros but now they are dialled in correctly I am thinking Holly ….. not sure I need any more bass Who am I kidding yes I need more Just have to wait till the 2000 pro price in New Zealand drops below $2500 per sub

[@nespressoman]

If I use four subs, what goes into all of them? At the moment my front two subs are used for the .1 channel and taking the low frequencies from all the surrounds that are set to 80Hz on the AVR. I also run my front L&R full range and use the hi inputs on the two subs to extend the bass down for two channel music. Thanks.

[@kiiarahasnosynonyms]

spouse approval 🥴👏👏 that's hilarious

[@jimg5859]

Based on this video I moved one sub to the corner and felt immediate improvements!!! Thanks I was struggling with nulls and could not EQ it out

[@TheoNicolakis]

That’s fantastic and I’m so glad this was helpful!

[@acts9531]

I'm just curious what would happen if you ran each sub out of phase with the other. I have a smaller, narrow room and placement problems. To be honest I'm probably not what most of you would consider anything like an audiophile and I'm generally happy with my configuration so I'm just curious what running the subs counter-phased would do.

[@djlytic4603]

It would cancel out certain frequencies

[@acts9531]

@@djlytic4603 Thank you.

[@simonm8586]

Adjusting phase is a good way of making a more linear response between multi subs and with speakers. But listen to the result for timing issues that don't show up in bass sweep measurement

[@MovieViking]

@@djlytic4603 No, that depends on other factors. Depending on other factors setting one or the other sub can even out the response in the room.

[@slimjim1104]

I found in my space 4 subs yielded worse results than two. It was louder and shook more outside the room but in the room it seemed like they were canceling each other.

[@Audioholics]

It sounds like you didn't have them properly aligned with each other.

[@daveycrockett5738]

I get it but there’s not many rooms that are the same they are all so picky even if it is rectangular like you said depending on furnishing and length and width they will get a whole different measurement so this isn’t really a guide per say. Tho sticking to some of the principles may work out with some peoples rooms. The good old sun crawl trumps this

[@TheoNicolakis]

What a difference between the theory and real world practice, right? The research helps us narrow some things down and hopefully gives us the tools to fine-tune things or know how to address some of the particulars of our setups. One thing that I’ve learned over the years is that learning your room over time is as important as learning about your gear.

[@kiiarahasnosynonyms]

i've got the 1/4 - 3/4 on all walls and upper & lower corner bass walls 😆 this is fun tho

[@daktusdurggery5505]

Talk to me about in wall sub placement? My brain says place them in wall behind seating??

[@kiiarahasnosynonyms]

my bass keeps pulverizing my Denons avr internals 🥴 they can't withstand vibration

[@Professor5180]

If I place the subwoofer in the corner does it matter in which direction the face of the points?

[@TheoNicolakis]

Simple answer is no

[@Edsel76]

I'm no expert, but i always see these setup like the ones in the photos and think it's just for show and won't sound good

[@michaelwright1602]

It does not sound good. When I moved my two SB3000 subs out and away from my gear, placing one some ten feet away beside a couch and the other in the L shaped room kitty corner into the short leg of the L in a corner, say twenty inches off the wall at an angle, and then played around with phase and what not, the sound is incredible. I have a mic somewhere, and I need to find that and apply the REW software. But quite honestly, it sounds very very good the way it is, but I am sure I could get better sound with REW.

[@TheoNicolakis]

There is no question that some of this subwoofer center channel subwoofer placement is for marketing. It’s an easy way to showcase three different products in one shot, it looks great to the eye, and it’s symmetrical. In some cases, where an enthusiast is doing this type of configuration, the two subwoofers are too close to each other and will tend to act more like a single sub. It’s exactly because of the proliferation of such images that we wanted to take the opportunity to bring this topic to the forefront.

[@greenhat911]

I do like the video. However, while amazing, the SVS subs do not represent what many can afford especially in a double configuration. Two of these come in at a heft $5000 in additional to the $5000 for Denon receiver you use in your test. These do not accurately represent what most of us have available to work with. I would like to have seen you test some budget friendly subs/receivers, some mid range and high end.

[@MovieViking]

The acoustics involved are the same regardless of the price tag

[@TMERUNNR]

That Background is Freaking Awesome Theo!!! NICE!!🔥

[@TheoNicolakis]

😂 love it. Thanks for that great shout out.

[@klepp19]

Should second subwoofer be same type, brand and size of first subwoofer?

[@D.L.W.]

Identical dual subs are the way to go.

[@klepp19]

@@D.L.W. Or three 😅

[@D.L.W.]

@@klepp19 the ultimate threesome! 😂

[@klepp19]

@@D.L.W. 😂

[@jessicaembers924]

Put 1 sup in a corner, and the Other sub in the dead spot. Personally, i prefer 1 in All Four corners! :-)