Audiophile preamp repair video triggers YouTube copyright takedown war!

[@MrSlipstreem]

As a 40+ year electronics design engineer with a keen interest in audio, I could definitely build you one with almost identical performance for under £250. Unfortunately, I'll never get rich because I'm too honest.

[@markusweissenbock6337]

For that price, you could of course not use those nice drop style tantalums ;)

[@jocool7370]

With paper shims?

[@nabman_]

It's papyrus 😜

[@delamar6199]

@@jocool7370 😂😂😂 The capacitor snake oil did hit him

[@malte2483]

@@nabman_ 🤣

[@cunawarit]

Ah, the Streisand effect at its finest. If the video hadn’t been taken down, most of us wouldn’t have known which British “high-end” audiophile manufacturer was involved. We wouldn’t have seen just how poorly constructed the equipment in question was, nor would we have discovered that it carries a price tag comparable to that of a car! Sometimes, attempts to suppress information only amplify it, now we ALL know what the product is 😂

[@AudioMasterclass]

I’ve heard that Wales is a lovely place at this time of year.

[@cunawarit]

@@AudioMasterclass Particularly southern Wales.

[@fonkenful]

@@AudioMasterclassSt Margaret’s Park.

[@mattmutane5502]

@@cunawarit Where ironically enough, you can buy a HOUSE for the price of said pre-amp...!!!!! 🤣

[@cunawarit]

@mattmutane5502 but the house isn't made using alien technology, nor is it built by a "genius".

[@justincase9471]

The only thing Audiophile about that Amp is the price. It looks like a bunch of Velleman kits put together by a 14 year old. 🤣🤣🤣

[@indietonne]

but a 14 year would not use plastic holders 😂

[@sapperdeflap]

That's probably the main reason why they make only 10 a year 🙂

[@marstedt]

It would make a good high school project but for College they would expect more effort.

[@fonkenful]

@@justincase9471 More reminds me of a popsicle stick or dried spaghetti bridge challenge.

[@nakchAk]

None of my velleman kits I built as a teen have failed yet 😂

[@nabman_]

He did a phenomenal job at 'mending' a ridiculously complex preamp...complex for no sonic benefits but for snake oil exorbitant price tag.

[@martynanstis1620]

@@nabman_ that’s my take on it.

[@barrymayson2492]

I hate tantalum capacitors. There are too many in the world.

[@kineahora8736]

I don’t even think it was that “complex”-it was just cheaply made and had a lot of parts…

[@Zimmy_1981]

I think OP meant too complex for a relatively simple device ​@@kineahora8736

[@Flying0Dismount]

I think there are sonic benefits and a clear reason for the complexity which Mark actually explained in his video (basically paralleled preamps for lower noise). This is not a novel concept though and anyone building a preamp with similar specs would likely end up with a similar architecture due to the fundamental physics limitations.. So the device is certainly not worth the cost being asked, especially as each of the preamps are just commodity off-the-shelf chip preamps and not "alien tech", but I wouldn't necessarily call it overly complex.. In fact it's quite a simple design that allowed the company to simply build a bunch of low cost "cookie cutter" circuit boards and hook them all together in a very low cost, low skill manner and end up with some otherwise very difficult to achieve specs.. Now would 99.9% of the population appreciate the tiny bit quieter audio? As with most "audiophile" gear, probably not, but this circuit does look like it should do what it claims, unlike the wooden knobs and "oxygen free copper" wire sets (some sold especially for digital signals no less) that are also commonly sold at exhorbitant prices that actually do nothing at all...

[@NotMarkKnopfler]

Copyright of WHAT? He created the documentation HIMSELF! He copied NOTHING!

[@mrl4342]

That's the whole point - a copywrite claim is a YT mechanism to force a content creator to take down a video immediately whether or not the claim is valid. In this case there was no copywrite-able content. But it leaves the original content creator immediately in the wrong and having to fight the claim, regardless of how false the claim is. Three 'copywrite strikes' and you're off the platform. Fred had no choice but to take the content down from his channel.

[@anotheryoutubed]

Circuit designs can be copyrighted though. Mark may have made the documentation himself, but he also is showing the circuits. However, he was doing it for educational reasons only, so technically fair use should cover it as completely legal.

[@argentas]

@@anotheryoutubed In UK law (I cannot speak for other jurisdictions) the circuit designs themselves are not copyrightable. Drawn schematics can be copyrighted, as can PCB designs, as they are both considered 'artistic works'. To give an example from another industry, I cannot aquire a service manual from a car manufacturer, duplicate it, and sell or freely publish it, as this would breach their copyright, but I could acquire a vehicle and take it apart and document each component and how they fit together and publish this (Haynes manuals are an example of this 'reverse engineering').

[@kenabi]

@@anotheryoutubed its literally just reused stuff from the datasheets, en masse. best he can do is tag him for possible brand rep damage, if the uk allows for such, but thats still a false copyright claim. the most amusing (darkly so) part, is mark didn't even get very shirty about it, even though he knew it was basically snake oil silliness while he was fixing it. we did in the comments, though.

[@bobbytesback]

@@mrl4342 makes you wonder why people bother with this platform. people should make spicy "redirect" videos alluding to what the content is but host the real, full video on a platform that doesn't do this nonsense. There are plenty of alternatives to KZbin. If something is too "hot" for youtube, simply replace is with a short placeholder with the relevant title and have it detail the location of the real video elsewhere. people still get to watch it and you're not watching your effort go down the toilet

[@OperationNorthwoods]

This definitely is not about Mend-It-Mark's channel where he absolutely did not work on a shoddy, cheap-quality and extremely over priced pre-amp that is not made by Tom Evans. No, it definitely is not about that.

[@Sean006]

That's right, we deny all knowledge of 'Mend It like Mark'. In fact we deny that people called Mark even exist.....they seem to be called Fred!

[@uiopuiop3472]

agree not that, also its not made from low quality plastic components and with 80s DIY prototype level of sophistication

[@etherealicer]

And there is no Link between Armstrong Horseman and Louis Rossman :D

[@baredesigns1]

Yep definitely not. But could be too because it too was £25000😅

[@ralphj4012]

Cardboard fillers, to stop the perspex panels rattling, are just hearsay.

[@stefanegger]

Is this video about Tom Evans Mastergroove, a 25000 USD PreAmp made out of paper and plastic standoffs?

[@nudebaboon4874]

No it isn't, its £25000, so around $30000usd for MC phono pre amp. And yes on the paper and plastic bits.

[@mitfreundlichengrussen1234]

No, it is a video about a black Piñata.

[@LeeTanczos]

less is more? haha

[@CaptainRon1913]

Yeah, and Mend it Mark even fixed it with paper and cheap plastic standoffs.... hummm wonder why, when he had the brass standoffs. Only a few dollars more. There's more to the story Mr. Hivemind

[@paulstubbs7678]

@@CaptainRon1913 Usually a repairer will restore to as close to original as possible, upgrades and tweaks are a whole other field.

[@followthetrawler]

Tom Evans have seriously messed up and bullying a creator shows how they have misjudged this. £25,000 for what looked like a hobbyist construction (not alien) is clearly aimed at people with more money than sense.

[@nakchAk]

If people want to spend they will pay for exclusivity and assume quality, value doesn't come into it, it's how all luxary products work be it perfume, vip experience packages for concerts, wargame miniatures or magic preamps if your not making at least 1000x profit per item sold it's not luxary

[@jasonk5979]

I have seen a lot of expensive audio equipment over the years. Some of it very complex. I have never seen anything with that many plastic risers. Tantalum capacitors everywhere. Yikes Whatever. Why worry about things you can't afford anyway. I am enjoying watching all the negative press this manufacturer is getting. Including all the repost of the original video.

[@jsenear]

Me too.

[@JohnZolla-bp7tl]

An audio company that I worked for years ago wouldn't even issue schematics to employees. Imagine their horror when they found schematics "reverse engineered" in a Japanese magazine. True story. 😎

[@DAVID-io9nj]

Did they really think no one else had any knowledge about electronics?

[@paulstubbs7678]

With discreet component designs, that is always possible, they are deluding themselves if they think otherwise. Just publish the designs in a proper service manual (think HP test gear from years ago), and make your audio mastery show in your attention to detail in the build quality, with components that cannot be bettered. That way any copies will always be inferior, and just look like junk.

[@kenabi]

on the flip side, i emailed triad speakers some years back and asked if they had info on an older model of sub plate amplifier that i had accidentally yanked the wires on and shorted (i was only given the amp, no idea what happened to the box and driver), blowing the output section. not only did they say yes, they told me flat out that they'd send me hard copies of their internal schematics and diagnostics for that model if i gave them my address. some companies are awesome, and some are total fail. that said, its been 20 years, and i can't be sure they'd still offer to do the same again.

[@twocentman]

​@@kenabiAgree. The better way is to sell a hardcopy manual. The risk that the schematics will be displayed around the globe is than limited. Tektronix does the same in 1970 with a no reproduction claim. I think that's the way to go.

[@davidewhite69]

thirty years ago I bought a very powerful professional power amp that came with a hefty price tag. My mate, who has considerable electronic knowledge, far more than mine, had a gander inside and said I could build this for $600 (less than a quarter what it cost me). I asked him wouldnt that be intellectual property theft, he replied I'll trace the circuit and get back to you. A day later he said it was identical to the circuit design he learnt in college, identical! so we built a few copies, purely for our own use, not for sale

[@zadzwon112]

The culture is changing so much. I have on my bench a Panasonic RX-1950 portable cassette recorder from 1982. A manufacturer's Service Manual is so detailed that you could build one from scratch without ever see the original item before. In modern devices there is hardly anything inside - usually a bunch of ready-made modules attached to a microcontroller, but all is a big, big secret! And forget about service manuals! Or even servicing - this is not considered to be an option anymore. The modern (reducing waste, saving the planet apparently?) concept is to buy a new one.

[@cdl0]

'Evans above mate, this video certainly hit the Mark! 🙂 That's all; I will leave quietly now....

[@johngalt7382]

Good Evans!! How do we mend it? I will Mark my calendar.

[@cdl0]

@@johngalt7382 Tom-foolery is likely involved. 🙂

[@cdl0]

@@johngalt7382 Probably Tom-foolery is involved, I think.

[@oijans]

I don't think it will be necessary to produce all 10 a year of these audio devices now.

[@Sean006]

I wonder if they will be in the January sales......bargain price of £24,999.

[@TheDivergentDrummer]

Tell me it isn't greed when he still wanted like 6000 £ to repair it, and all it needed was a new top, a piece of allthread, and a tantalum capacitor. The investment is already made for the item by the customer.. Do you mean to tell me that 6000 £ to replace a cap is warranted? Does he have to characteristically test each and every capacitor to ensure they all aligned to within

[@TheDivergentDrummer]

@@Sean006 add 12K and you too can actually GET the XLR inputs it promised..

[@KeritechElectronics]

Grinding off the part numbers makes reverse engineering harder, but not impossible. Laser decapping of ICs is a relatively popular way to see what's inside, and manufacturers sometimes leave marks on the lithography, making it easier to identify the part. If this is not the case, cross-referencing the image of the structure with a database of jellybean component lithographies might help. Good thing for MIM and Louis Rossmann for exposing this crap. Copyright trolling has been a nuisance here for years. I'm sure EEVBlog will also call this bullshit out.

[@GetUpFalcon]

As a qualified sound engineer, I’ve never trusted the Welsh.

[@robturner3065]

always spitting all over the mic

[@barlow2976]

Was that supposed to be funny, or a statement?

[@Mtaalas]

This would not stick in court... I'm electronics designer and taking a thing a apart and showing how it's made is completely legal UNLESS the equipment has been acquired illegal means or is restricted somehow by GOVERNMENT to not be handled without proper clearance or permit etc... DMCA has nothing on this.

[@ploed]

That's YT for you, better delete it and fast before they have to deal with the court. Not even watching the video, everything is done by automation.

[@AI_Image_Master]

Certainly you would win in court but at what cost to you. Reminds me of all of the videos were someone records a cop and the cop tells him that it is illegal to film a cop. OF course we all know that it is not illegal. It is settled law. But to what point do you argue with him. Get arrested. Spend a year in court until a judge finally dismisses the case. Many times the little guy must forfeit his rights. IN this case the little YT guy ends up giving up his rights to save his channel.

[@NatureAndStars]

Wait a second... What dystopian world is this in which we're not allowed to say the name of a company or a product? The company is Tom Evans Audio Design and the product is Mastergroove.

[@donsurlylyte]

the world of google my friend

[@nakchAk]

It's a shame his surname is Evans not riddle, as its all gone a bit voldermort

[@chrisg6597]

@@nakchAk And also a shame that his forename isn't Jimmy, as he's certainly taking the P....

[@freepadz6241]

Exactly. All of these lads afraid of their own shadow. It's sad.

[@-HustleUnion-]

And it's hot garbage

[@LowsHand]

The only thing that shocked us is the incredible price for so much junk in one case...

[@rjy8960]

The thing here is that there was nothing that Fred "disclosed" was not in the public domain - he explained standard practise of both a differential amplifier and standard linear PSU design. The design of the unit was absolutely shocking for the cost. The problem with the world of Audio is that it is full of shysters and B.S bogus products such as Audiophile Ethernet switches, stupidly expensive cables and connectors and cable lifters to mention a few products aimed at people who have zero idea of what they are buying.

[@barney6888]

Filing a complaint against the truth is proof that the complainant has a lot to hide. We'll remember that.

[@artysanmobile]

I’ve designed almost exclusively analog audio electronics for almost 55 years, most of it in my profession and business, Artisan Mobile. There’s only one certain thing that can be claimed about audio design on an electronic level; there is nothing new under the sun. Further, there has been nothing new for all of those 55 years. Anyone who disputes this is simply delusional. There, I said it. Class D and H power amplifiers are a very mature 50. Preamplification makes that look like a newcomer. The only spaces left to innovate are those of reliability and efficiency. Distortion, noise, dynamic range - these were perfected by friends of your grandfather. Ease of use will never run out of new avenues to ply, but any claims to superior sound are merely stating that you’ve been doing your reading the last several decades. Faithfulness of sound repro is a given, so if you know something new, it’s going in the wrong direction. Good luck with that.

[@arvidlystnur4827]

My revelation is some classic amp of the past, perhaps a Pioneer or whatever, might sound or measure worse than something new, only because capacitors have a limited lifetime, thus need to be replaced to return the amp to its full potential. The question put, is that new amp really that good, or should one spend the money to replace the capacitors in an old one?

[@G-ra-ha-m]

@@arvidlystnur4827 THD measurements are irrelevant anyway. How it handles transients is far more important.

[@paulstubbs7678]

Your only real avenue, assuming a decent design is build quality & reliability, then maybe teamed up with top notch manuals, both user and repair. Then be like McIntosh who will repair anything they made, even if it's 50 years old - oh oops, they just got bought out - lets see how that bit runs in the future.....

[@marstedt]

@@arvidlystnur4827 I would only be interested in a "new amp" if it's performance and price were incredible, or possibly if it used all thru-hole components & construction. Trying to repair SMD is far too much trouble for something as simple as audio equipment.

[@micheldonais]

And the mftg did a good pass at that design. It followed everything to the letter and gave it 2x as much as it needs to get the best sound it could. Even MiM doesn’t have anything big to say about that design. However, it’s not Alien technology, not made with oil-capped aerospatial Vishays and hand-wound custom caps so the mystique disappeared. For small batches, I’m all for artisans to be able to live from their crafts. It’s more expensive to do them here by oneself than going to China and mass produce. So I’m giving it a pass. Not Alien, but not bad. Their answer, though, is ridiculous. Slow clap, Tom.

[@marstedt]

Please add links to Mend It Mark's channel and the video about the take down. Also maybe Louis Rossmanns take on it?

[@blessedthistle1.414]

You should be able to type in these things yourself… People too easily demand others effort.

[@nudebaboon4874]

​@@blessedthistle1.414 Well said.

[@nudebaboon4874]

NickT6630 has the full vid.

[@LeeTanczos]

have you noticed that commentors cannot post links

[@donmoore7785]

Thw whole point was to not name names. Did you miss this somehow?

[@MikeGervasi]

Welcome to the battle. Our friend "Fix It Fred" appreciates your support, lad ;)

[@stevesmyth4982]

Tom Evans audio design will reveal all and I'm happy to own the comment and ecstatic to not own the pre amplifier. The video can be found (re-uploaded) on Damn Kermit's youtube channel.

[@ShawnONeal-w5p]

All I can find is frogs, how about an actual link?

[@JonPaul]

@@ShawnONeal-w5p Im finding several, appears that more than a few people are reposting.

[@stevesmyth4982]

@Shawn O'Nealw5p YT doesn't allow links from commenters, if you do a search for 'Tom Evans audio design' you'll find what I'm typing about and Damn Kermit is an anagram of the original uploader's youtube channel name.

[@russbetts1467]

@@stevesmyth4982 Thank you very much for the info about YT not allowing URL's from commenters. That explains why several of my postings have disappeared without trace.

[@geoffstrickler]

Mend It Mark didn’t violate any copyrights. Tom Evans Audio has bought himself a load of legal issues, and a load of bad press.

[@baritonfelix]

Beware of the ranting Rossmann of the Apocalypse. Mark's video has by now been reposted several times, so maybe you're just being a tiny bit overcautious. Unless some Mr. Jones thinks they have the copyright on the whole story in some shape or form. Facts cannot be copyrighted.

[@AudioMasterclass]

It’s so true that a fact can’t be copyrighted. It’s also true that anyone can issue a bogus copyright claim and cause a lot of bother. I had one a while ago and my dispute was rejected. So I raised the issue to the next level, which could have meant court. Fortunately the claimant didn’t pursue it further. Moral is that this issue is not trivial.

[@baritonfelix]

@@AudioMasterclass But how will using funny names keep some (purely fictional) Mr. Jones from issuing a bogus claim? He either will or he won't.

[@AudioMasterclass]

I’m not the lowest-hanging fruit.

[@DigitalImageStudio]

@@AudioMasterclass all this being a fair indication that the copyright/strike system here is very much abused and extremely poorly designed and regulated, that's the real issue.

[@dougle03]

@@DigitalImageStudio It's broken; this Mend it MArk video on the Tom Evans 'weekend end DIY pre-amp' proves it... Not really sure what TE though would happen, but I'm pretty sure he didn't anticipate the fall out....

[@fredfred2363]

I love that all us electronics designers are coming out of the woodwork and giving our 2p worth in the comments!

[@Sean006]

I don't think it's the 'electronics' most of us have issue with. The circuits probably deliver the performance people are paying for. It's the very basic build quality one gets for £25,000 nowadays....almost surprised it wasn't encased in a cardboard box (Hey, that's environmentally friendly! I should copyright that idea and charge £35,000)

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

Tom Evans could be sued for frameup and fraud, as you could argue that Tom was well aware reverse-engineering of the circuit was necessary in order to fix it and allowed the preamp to be looked at anyways.

[@marstedt]

I think he should be sued regardless. He has inflicted damage to Mend It Mark for no reason other than greed and ego. Tom Evans needs mental help.

[@dougle03]

Regardless, it was sent to a known youtube content creator by the manufacturer, they should and could have known that a video would be made and published; they essentially invited it... I suspect there is much more that Mark didn't put into the video.... I very much doubt TE have the resources to take on Mark, Louis and the growing number of other channels that are re-posting the original video... Perhaps Tom Evans Audio should get better PR and legal advice in the future... Assuming there is anything left of the company that is... Latest Companies House fillings don't make for pleasant reading that's for sure...

[@johnorourke1636]

A 25 grand preamp should be able to travel back through time and space to the moment when the original recording was made. It can then retrieve details that are not even on the CD or vinyl record. 😊

[@jocool7370]

Nobody would think that a video on fixing a VW Golf's breaks would be a copyright infringement, right? The same goes for Mend It Mark's video.

[@Mikere5]

*brakes

[@davidewhite69]

*brakes

[@matthewsmith1461]

Louis Rossman has the full repair video Tom did up on his channel like he said he would. Posted it 6hrs ago.

[@-GrumpyOldMan]

He is not the only one. I sincerely hope Tom Evans is suffering greatly with the Streisand effect amplifying awareness for this piece of junk. The only thing out of this world about it is the price. £25000? Holy steaming piles of dog poo-poo Batman, I wouldn't even give him £250 for it!

[@peterbigblock]

Mason Vett Audio Designs have done more damage to their reputation than Fixit Fred ever could (or would, for that matter). The Boss Furrow appears to be a poorly-built, $30,000 bit of plasticky audio flash. Tom - er, Mason - seems to have spent most of his build time rubbing the numbers off the transistors.

[@mddawson1]

Should "Mason Vet" successfully remove the multi re-uploads of the original video, there is also a copy on a well known Internet Archive website.

[@joeschmo4170]

He quoted 5000$ + to repair. The owner asked he send it to Mark saying you won't be able to fix it. I think Mark packed it insufficiently as well just for good measure coz it was damaged but that part is my feeling. Mark fixed it for a few hundred bucks changing a 2$ cap.

[@TEDodd]

You mean Tom packed it insufficiently. Mark did more than just change a cap.

[@theaustralianconundrum]

@@TEDodd Indeed. IT was NOT Mark's fault at all.

[@AudioMasterclass]

I suspect a typo.

[@donmoore7785]

You got one detail in there mixed up. Mark didn't pack it to send it to Mark.

[@TEDodd]

@@AudioMasterclass a typo is a misspelling, incorrect spacing or punctuation, not the wrong name.

[@StealthParrot]

The biggest mystery to me in this whole fiasco is why the manufacturer feels it is a copyright infringement.

[@dougle03]

They don't. Issuing a claim was the only lever open to them to get the content taken down in hopes of limiting the damage... I very much doubt they thought it would backfire like it has for sure...

[@NorthWesternSouthEast]

Yes, you are correct (depending on the jurisdiction) you cannot copyright a circuit board because it is a functional piece of kit. If you were to put in a trace trap (a non functional trace that gets its name from a trap street that is placed on maps to turn a map into a copyrightable piece of art by including streets that don't exist) then copyright can be claimed, since the person copying the artwork of the circuit board copied a non-functional piece, a piece of art. Yes, you are also correct in that tantalum capacitors do degrade even without being used and should not be used in a precision piece of electronics due to their instability (and if you put them in backwards they explode and the pieces can hit you in the forehead, I know this for a fact). So, the boards were not copied, the schematics were derived from something that cannot be copyrighted, the video was an original work, the video showed schematics that were original art, and the original manufacturer waived off on the repair. I can't see this as anything but vexatious litigation by a Richard Noggin.

[@davidwoodbridge862]

I have experienced a 1 meter high flame from a 100uF tantalum, quite brief but potentially very damaging. I guess it's why we call them tantrums.

[@piggybladder]

I'll take a stab at where £5000 repair costs come from. Quick test to find out which board isn't working. Replace whole board. Board = £1/10th cost of new preamp. Labour, p/p, a week's skiing holiday in Verbier + VAT = same again. Ergo total cost of repair = 1/5 of a new preamp.

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

This all seems oddly familiar … 😂 Except I wasn’t just asked to take it down. I was threatened with a lawsuit and all but harassed by a manufacturer over a review. Ahhh. Good times!

[@pjmt29]

You would of thought manufacturers would of learnt from yours & Camerons experience with the negative attention it drew towards their companies.

[@marstedt]

I think Tom Evans and Eric Alexander of Tekton should be sued regardless. They have inflicted damage to Mend It Mark and Erins Audio Corner for no reason other than greed and ego. Tom Evans and Eric Alexander need mental help.

[@davidewhite69]

After pleading for me to 'take it down' I got threatened with legal action from an ebay seller for leaving a negative review. I ignored him and somehow he got ebay to remove it. some people just can not handle criticism, even if it is 100% factual

[@davidewhite69]

@@pjmt29 *would have

[@davidspendlove5900]

Didn’t the manufacturer send it to fix it Fred for a repair ?Fred did not denigrate the product but simply exposed the insides for us all to see.I’m embarrassed for the buyer of this product to be honest.

[@JonPaul]

yes.,

[@davidewhite69]

and sadly, judging by the serial number, there have been 57 other suckers scammed

[@martynanstis1620]

The guy who took the (very good) video down must be really ashamed of his work or maybe the price he charged for it. The grinding off the part numbers was really pathetic.

[@AudioMasterclass]

If he has a genuine trade secret to conceal then I see the point. If it’s hiding cheap components, then pathetic it would be. I make no judgement on the facts here because I don’t know them. I might expand on this in general in a future video.

[@kineahora8736]

Grinding off part numbers isn’t illegal?? Or maybe only in vehicles?

[@keyboarddancers7751]

The world of ultra high end audio is incredibly small so the dude's reputation has now been (quite rightly) irreversibly trashed. What's also extremely embarrassing is the huge number of positive commentary he's received for his products from numerous magazines and ultra high end audio retailers over the past 10-12 years. The fallout from this issue could be monumental as the entire ultra high end audio industry is now potentially being exposed to ridicule. At the very least, we should expect Tom Evans' website to be taken down fairly soon.

[@AudioMasterclass]

@kineahora8736 I suspect that in helicopters it very much is.

[@AudioMasterclass]

Ah no. We don’t take down people’s websites. We’re not cancel culture here.

[@uni-byte]

Your too nice. Despite using solid and established reference designs, the build quality of the said (sad) amplifier is utterly dismal and that is not taking the astonishingly inflated price into account. Tommy boy deserves to be put out of business for his awfully executed products, his insane pricing and his poor sportsmanship. A truly horrible person.

[@keyboarddancers7751]

Original vid's been re-uploaded numerous times since yesterday - the Streisand effect.

[@fredashay]

Found the video! Much ado over a phono preamp. Seems silly to spend 20K buckazoids for a device to let you listen to an audio source full of pops, clicks, rumble, hiss, wow, flutter, and cross-talk.

[@ianeveratt7273]

Ha yes but the pops, clicks, rumble, hiss, wow, flutter, and cross-talk are crystal clear. He He

[@marstedt]

You just don't fully understand the holy and spiritual nature of audio and vinyl. It's not about the performance.

[@fredashay]

@@marstedt I understand it well enough. I admit that I sometimes pull out an old vinyl album from my college days and play it on my turntable just for the sentimental value. But when I want to listen to music to enjoy the music, I listen to CD or digital music I purchased in FLAC format.

[@ChrisM541]

It's a bragging rights item for The Rich. Nothing more, nothing less. In that respect, maybe we all should leave Tom Evans to it...and laugh together at the 'poor' rich kids being taken down a peg or three?

[@jhareng]

You dont get no "pops, clicks, rumble, hiss, wow, flutter, and cross-talk" with any decent turntable. It was £25k yep idiotic.

[@darrenridley6144]

That was brilliant...no idea what you are on about but going to find out...perhaps the lawsuit is more counterproductive than they ever anticipated...'power to the people' 😂😂😂

[@jpdemer5]

Tom Evans raised no legal "big questions" ... the copyright claim is preposterous. It does raise questions about how KZbin allows bogus claims to prevail by default. The hilarious aspect of this story is how it was Evans refusing to repair his product at a reasonable price that led to Mark cracking it open and revealing what a lame design it was.

[@delamar6199]

I work in the Pro Audio field and never heard of the brand involved. That doesn't mean anything but usually reputable brands who manufacture audio equipment in the ten of thousands of dollares you hear at least once about them....

[@cunawarit]

@delamar6199 This appears to be a one-man band, which is a shame in some ways. Normally, I'd wish a small business like this the best of luck, but after seeing the original video, I can't say the same for this product. The cheap plastic risers, blobs of hot glue, and blank circuit boards are truly disappointing.

[@keyboarddancers7751]

Have a look at the website; it is truly astonishing that such abysmal product presentation could persuade any distributor or retailer to associate itself with anything this man might be offering... and he's been at it for the past 12 years!

[@mikeg2491]

Unfortunately there are people with money who want to feel like they’re one of only 100 people in the world to own a particular piece of audio equipment. It’s not really about audio quality but offering some esoteric gem piece. And I say this as someone who still believes quality equipment costs several grand but even I have my limits.

[@paulstubbs7678]

Wrong market, it's not pro, it's Audiophile, where one takes a normal design, covers it in gold and fits shock mounts that'll take a nuclear blast.

[@mjouwbuis]

@@paulstubbs7678 He forgot the gold and the shock mounts 🤣

[@RR1976]

Tantalum caps are known to act very nasty when they go bad much more so than electrolytic or film caps.

[@rupertprice5508]

As a keen hobbyist i really enjoy seeing videos of products I will never own or work on . That piece of equipment reminds me of some of my early work in the 80;s . Not something I would be proud of today.

[@valleywoodstudio7345]

The long term reliability of tant caps has been known for quite some time - talk to anybody who has renovated a Revox!

[@paulstubbs7678]

Tants like a bit of resistance to survive, low impedance power supplies are not that. When I was a young one, I made a rail inverter using a 555 timer pumping two large tants, it lasted only minutes, I've never made that mistake again.

[@johngalt7382]

I have always thought moving coil cartridges were idiotic to begin with. 25K for a MC phono stage is just next level, and might be on par with $2500 pure silver oxygen free power cables.

[@davidwoodbridge862]

Or $40K speaker cables with silver wire.

[@johngalt7382]

@davidwoodbridge862 I meant to say silver lol

[@Mark-Book]

There are a lot of crazy profit margins in high end audio and some razor thin ones. Only information like this can help consumers and the copyright strikes...

[@ronniepirtlejr2606]

It was a fantastic video! The gentlemens quality of work in this video was exquisite! I like his sense of humor 😉 I liked the video so much that I had to watch it again on Mr Rosman's Channel👍

[@jamesplotkin4674]

Those who have seen the interior of this piece of shixx will notice the rat's nest wiring job. For this kind of coin, I'd expect military quality lead dress, but this is just a joke. Doesn't have full interference rejection. At least a full interior of nickel sheeting not just a plastic case.

[@BlankBrain]

Hypothetically, this is what is discussed in this video (re-uploaded): Mend It Mark The £25,000 Pre Amp that went Wrong Tom Evans Mastergroove SR mkIII RJbpFSFziI kzbin.info/www/bejne/e6ilc6t9aMinobs

[@keyboarddancers7751]

Tom Evans must be quaking cos his (very lucrative) business is about to go kaput!

[@kirkhamandy]

Wow, so many reuploads to choose from, I was touting a different one!

[@stephenhookings1985]

Like the cap?

[@BlankBrain]

@@keyboarddancers7751 No publicity is bad publicity. His Burr-Brown designed circuit is good. The implementation, not so much. I doubt his customers will ever see Mark's video. Lots of very high-end audio gear has funky stuff going on. These are people who buy purple heart floor standoffs for their speaker wires.

[@trevorspiro945]

It seems to me that a copyright claim is ridiculous as I cannot understand what copyright is said to have been infringed. What the removal of the video appears to be about is an exposure of poor quality manufacturing and/or modernity of design, which was done by an apparent expert with no malice or prior negative agenda against the company. The dissatisfaction with the quality of construction or components used is relevant in a video about a repair job only in terms of its potential contribution to the cause of the fault which I don’t think was adequately made by the engineer. However this would not give rise to a copyright claim. So what have we learned about the copyright said to have been infringed - that is the real question, and who is the arbiter of such a matter?

[@bartrainer3916]

Well, I guess the copyright claim wasn't a good idea. Nice Streisand effect.

[@plasmaDave]

If fix it Fred needs a crowd funding for this I'd certainly find a buck or 2 to help.

[@MrPaulfrazer]

In the case of an amp wonderfully, beautifully and elegantly designed and constructed, and worth its asking price then the manufacturer would probably be pleased to see it examined and assessed on the internet.

[@MitzaMaxwell]

Something with a familiar scent has hit something in the ceiling, something that gives a light breeze.

[@vinny142]

Just to clarify because Louis got it wrong because the random person in a forum got it wrong: you CAN copyright a design, schematic or PCB layout. Copyright protects your work, *whatever it is* from being copied. Whatever it is. And that's where people get things wrong: to violate the copyright on a physical object you have to reproduce the object: build an amp by copying the design and layout of what you have on your bench. KZbin's copyright rules have no relevance here because the mystery repairman did not use any of the manufacturer's audio or video. The only way for them to take the video down in accordance with their policy is to demonstrate that the mystery repairman built a clone of the map, thereby doing something illegal. The manufacturer has been revealed to be a con man and should be despised as such.

[@davidwoodbridge862]

Laws may vary a little from place to place, essentially where I'm at you only have to alter a few component values and lay the circuit board out a little differently and it's no longer a copyright issue. But, who in their right mind would feel a need to copy such a poorly made product anyway, would make no sense?

[@trapspamalot]

Another amazingly well presented video from the master. Those NS-10 looking things in your background make your video sound worse 🤣🤣🤣 But the reflections from your handsome eyewear make you look even smarter, and smooth out the response, so all is well & good.👍👍

[@williamsmith9561]

This preamp is a classic example of the Emperor's New Clothes. The seller has exploited the placebo effect by using superlatives in the advertising. It’s a case of ‘a fool and his money soon parted.

[@SimonBlandford]

Getting too finicky over “intellectual property” is a psychological illness IMHO. When designing gear, publish a full service manual with pride!

[@davidwoodbridge862]

Easily repairable is rare these days but many kudos to makers that understand the value of this feature.

[@richardnorth2762]

Or better still, open-source the design from the get-go, something like creative commons (attribution) and let all of us other engineers knock the bugs out of it for you.

[@Savagetechie]

Tom Evans has turned his company into a laughing stock. Hopefully the staff get jobs elsewhere before they go bust.

[@AudioMasterclass]

That's presuming he has staff. He certainly doesn't have a website designer.

[@Savagetechie]

@@AudioMasterclass I suppose the output is low enough it could be a one man operation but it certainly doesn't look like pick and place construction so I would assume there are a couple of solder jockeys doing the bulk of the work.

[@worthingtonmodelrailway8628]

Just watched Fixit Fred’s vid lots of other KZbinrs have it loaded! Great video - and love his work! Unfortunate that the original designer reacted that way - but when charging that price for snake oils only to be expected!

[@johnhermanson5249]

It's "funny" that the owner sent that unit to the manufacturer for repair. Manufacturer wanted multiple thousands $ to fix it (holy shit). Owner refuses the estimate. Manufacturer sent it to fixit fred with a note "you won't be able to fix it" as if daring him, saying it with his tongue stuck out while saying "nah-nah-na-na-nah". Fixit Freds original video has been re-uploaded multiple times by supportive fans.

[@TractorMonkeywithJL]

And it has a crappy plastic case for the outrageous price it costs. For that price why not a durable metal case.

[@fonkenful]

Another delightfully crafted romp. Couldn’t agree more with your fleeting assessment of Mr Tony Honey Badger’s dismissal of vinyl audio. While some of us former audiophiles may have retired from all forms of physical media for numerous reasons - can’t really lay claim to that title under such circumstances can we? - I think it takes a special class of oblivious self righteous snobbery to deride those still enjoying them.

[@Vor-tech-studios]

One of my favourite 'Comedy' channels here. I am always second and third guessing the angle... and gaining insight along the way...

[@myleft9397]

3:40 you should not be able to make a copyright claim against a video containing something that cannot be copyrighted

[@PabloA64]

In case you are an design electronics engineer working for a company, then the company is the owner of the any copyrights of YOUR design. So, earning a salary for this work gets you disposed of your own rights? Then, if I buy a product, I am totally owner of each and any component of that, including it´s design.

[@professorbellorum]

I am really happy to see someone specifically addressing Armstrong's disparaging comments. You're presenting the full extent of logically supported interpretations. Obviously the copyright claim issue is the prevailing one and the fact that it's the wrong way to handle this does not affect the veracity of any audio quality claims.

[@AudioMasterclass]

I was careful in all three of my videos on this topic not to seem to criticise the audio quality of this device, simply because I don’t know. Maybe it’s fabulous but no-one that owns one has yet popped up in the comments.

[@mddawson1]

One positive out of all of this is that "Fix it Fred" will be getting a lot of work repairing "Mason Vet" products in the future.

[@paulstubbs7678]

Given the number of tants across the supplies, a guaranteed income stream (forget bitcoin or XAI)

[@davidcarr2216]

Good on Mend it Mark as far as I'm concerned. The more people call out the BS of the "HiFi industry" the better. Tom Evans' gear may indeed look different, be constructed differently , and indeed sound different , but this really isn't a good thing - in fact it's a terrible thing. Audiophiles spend all their time listening to equipment artefacts (which shouldn't even be there in the first place) just because they think it makes their Pink Floyd sound better. It doesn't make anything sound "better" , only different. BUT the industry just loves digging rabbit holes and encouraging "audiophiles" down them by telling them that component X, does this, and sounds like this. and makes their Pink Floyd sound better. How about telling them that component X shouldn't be doing any of that. To make matters even worse, "audiophiles" then start to delude themselves and indeed each other.

[@LeeTanczos]

yeah but where would all the money go ? its all about money so it will carry on forever, I say point at it and snicker but don't engage it directly if you don't have to...

[@cunawarit]

@davidcarr2216 The issue lies in the fact that a significant portion of self-proclaimed "audiophiles" are often misguided, uninformed, and lacking in technical knowledge. Many are willing to spend exorbitant amounts on equipment without any evidence that it outperforms gear designed by reputable engineering teams from established, competent audio companies. This willingness to blindly invest in overpriced products fuels the creation of ultra-expensive, often pointless components, perpetuating a cycle of wasteful excess and misplaced priorities in the audio industry.

[@grabannon]

​@@cunawaritReminds me of what someone said about Linn turntables v Technics etc. Two Scottish blokes in a shed or decades of experience and millions for R&D.

[@cunawarit]

@grabannon exactly right! I cringe when people think two bros in California or a bloke in Wales created a company in a garage or a shed that's beating Yamaha's professional greade speakers.

[@LeeTanczos]

@@cunawarit​​⁠ the sole aim the hifi industry is to make money to which I assure you it is entirely and singularly focused, with zero waste!!

[@jstnxprsn]

I never knew that watching somebody walking through a minefield could be so hilarious. Thanks for this. Ironically, it appears that the YT algorithm is suggesting the original vid to me. You can't make this stuff up. Well, you could, but nobody would believe it.

[@leandrogerardo9521]

What is the model of the Yamahas in the background please, and any reviews.

[@AudioMasterclass]

Yamaha NS-10M Studio. You’ll find reviews all over the web.

[@slyfondle1885]

The real twist is that it was "Mason Vet" that sent the "Boss Furrow" to "Fred" (and was confident that he would NOT be able to fix it) 🙄

[@JonPaul]

Exactly, I can't believe this isn't a major point. I comment on this when Marks video first came out. Good god, the manufacturer (some idiot I'm sure) sent the unit to Mark, challenging him saying he couldn't repair it. What a major fuck up move.

[@Stefan_Van_pellicom]

How dumb can you be?

[@AudioMasterclass]

I replied to another comment similarly that people who design stuff aren’t necessarily the best people to fix it. Mason was clearly projecting when he thought that Fred or anyone couldn’t diagnose and repair the fault. Some faults actually would not be repairable other than by luck because the part numbers have been filed off.

[@justincase9471]

@@JonPaul You can't make this shit up. How dumb does a feller have to be to send it to him and them blame him for fixing and documentating it. 😂😂

[@SimonEllwood]

Back in my day we were taught, thou shall test power supplies. A thermal camera is also a modern tool for testing short circuits. These techniques are well know even outside the audio field!

[@wimdouwe]

And the next video youtube suggested is......... yep a re-post of of the video you are talking about. Good job KZbin..............

[@UseUsernameNotInUse]

Absolutely agree! Copyright is not applicable in this case. The claim is spurious and born of spite. Long live Fixit!!!

[@mitfreundlichengrussen1234]

This is a video about a black Piñata, made especially for rich audiophiles.

[@cunawarit]

@@mitfreundlichengrussen1234 That's an insult to piñatas! An average piñata is much better made and more carefully put together.

[@mitfreundlichengrussen1234]

@@cunawarit This is very true and I thank you for pointing that out! A piñata also does not make a rattling, dull sound when shaken.

[@garfieldsmith332]

Well said sir. I saw the original video and wondered why part numbers would be ground off. To me it would mean that the parts are low end or substandard. It would seem to me to be like filing off the serial number from a product.

[@Pksparty2112]

It’s not about the pre amp. Not about the quality or the price. It’s about another company that thinks these actions in today’s environment is good business practices. If you are this ignorant as how to do business I personally wouldn’t want to do business with you for that reason alone.

[@johnbewick6357]

It looked like something designed in the seventies by a home electronics amatuer.

[@PurityVendetta]

Mark's a decent, knowledgeable and honest guy. The only complext thing about the rather poorly put together and grossely overpriced 'modestly named' Mastergroove from Tom Evans Audio is the grinding off of part number from cheap components. 25 grand for this 250 quids worth of kit.

[@iulian-sorinmorosan4046]

Yes, this tiny component ( especialy used at near maximum specification values ) tends to be unreliable...

[@DaskaiserreichNet78]

Armstrong Horseman. In Swiss German a Horse is called Ross. Armstrong reminds me of a certain Jazz Trumpet player.

[@AudioMasterclass]

Your wisdom is without fault.

[@laespiraldelsilencio9876]

I saw that Fred was very shocked by the construction, the price and the technical flaws of the Amp, specifically the way it was mounted internally. I think that the whole black box was a scam, and I think it is a good thing that it is being reported.

[@paulb4661]

BossFurrow in full glory now also on Trevor's Bench channel

[@robturner3065]

If the middle aged mugs who are Evans' target audience took an audiometry examination they'd realise they might as well trade all their overpriced tat in for a wind up gramophone

[@phrtao]

'Fred' said in the original video that the manufacturer sent him this device with the challenge that he would not be able to fix it. Some might say that was asking for it ! If I was fixing that thing I would have binned all that complicated rubbish and just wired in a modest quality modern phono-amp circuit, then bolted the case back together and I am sure the owner would be happy.

[@nabman_]

Yeses it's such a stupid design that even the maker can't figure out how to fix it.🥴

[@AudioMasterclass]

As a former electronics hobbyist I know that designing and building stuff is the easy part. Fixing stuff when it goes wrong is another level entirely. As you say, maybe he wasn’t up to the job.

[@stevengagnon4777]

​@@AudioMasterclass I am a " retired " bicycle 🚲 mechanic. My job was partly fixing things that were " impossible " . I was always up to a good challenge and usually successful. The main thing was the funds to cover the time involved to do the reverse engineering. With all the electronics involved now I'm sure some of the KZbin creators are going to run into same problem. Yeah... even bicycles have overly complicated electronics these days.

[@AudioMasterclass]

@stevengagnon4777 @stevengagnon4777 And here’s me when my hydraulic brakes were binding I messed about a bit with a Park tool then gave up and bought a new set from Amazon for fifty quid.

[@stevengagnon4777]

@@AudioMasterclass It's really amazing how inexpensive these brakes can be. Now if you had to have a shop install them thet might charge another 100 quid. Anyway now the bicycle manufacturers are running the brake lines inside the frame. That necessitates opening the hydraulic lines, fishing the line through the frame and bleeding the air bubbles out. Inspite of this I do like the hydraulic brake systems. Those disk brake certainly has introduced controversy in the industry. The tool didn't spread the pads open farther? Pushing them open and squeeze the levers a few times and that usually takes care of that. Brake lever get bumped with out the wheel installed during transport? There is a little plastic retainer that fits between the pads that will take the place of the rotors during transport .

[@AubMar]

WOW! This whole case is just NOT going away - Its getting incredible coverage on both sides of the sea.... There is an expression "there's no such thing as bad publicity" but I think in this case there is, I wonder if Mr E will sell his annual production quota of 10 units in 2025??? Doubtful!

[@RobSchofield]

@ 7:36 - yes, this type of component has known, long-term reliability problems: however, these are these days well-characterised, and as a result (along with improved manufacturing techniques and better component quality) are used without problems in specific application areas. What was worrying about this saga: 1) the design was not novel 2) the employed design technique was not unique 3) prior art existed (manufacturer's data sheets and application notes) 4) the failure of the component affected another part of the design, which was not fault-tolerant, causing the dagger-through-the-heart fault for an audio product - NOISE!!! Unbelievable. As an electronics engineer of some 40+ years, this saga is unique in my experience, and is one of the most appalling demonstrations of egregious, out-and-out greed I have ever seen. For the manufacturer to put out a product of such poor build quality and design for the money he's charging, the company (which sounds like a one-man band operation anyway) should be ashamed - as I would be if I put something of this low standard in the marketplace with my name on it! 🤓

[@mikethespike7579]

Anyone can load down a circuit plan for a high quality preamp together with a list of components and the printed circuit and build his own preamp. It's not at all difficult and would cost in material maybe 300 pounds. Add another 100 for a housing and you have a preamp that some companies are charging 20 000 for.

[@njm1971nyc]

"Boss Furrow" 😂😂😂 too funny 😉

[@Geekeric]

I can think of a smartphone company, let's call it "Crapple" who make it difficult if not impossible to fix their product, even taking legal action against those who publicly fix it. I respond by buying a smart phone made by, say, Bamsung. I think as consumers we really need to consider carefully how cheaply and easily things can be repaired before we buy them, especially if you fork out 25,000.

[@AudioMasterclass]

Commenters have also mentioned Ron Beer.

[@stevejagger8602]

"Fix it Fred" expressed his disdain succinctly. "Tantalum capacitors are nothing special unless they are blessed by the Pope."

[@baredesigns1]

Mastergroove?? What's so masterful about that damn groove? It seems like a standard brand!

[@cormackeenan8175]

There once was a man, Tom Evans, Whose gear drew some harsh condemnations. His preamps were bland, Built more by his hand Than by thoughtful or skilled innovations.

[@kineahora8736]

TOM Evans “Misadventure” the model should be called. ‘’mastergroove” my arse!

[@markrigg6623]

Master...bait......

[@LiquidEyes100]

The main takeaway, for me, is that this particular piece of alleged snake oil ONLY got exposed **because an electronics guy happened to disassemble the product** and publish their findings. I'm going to hazard a guess that your typical, ultra-wealthy 'audiophile' doesn't tend to buy a $30,000 product then immediately take it apart! (Further I'd speculate that the Venn diagram of "the target demographic for these products" and "techies with the required working knowledge of electronics" has a minuscule intersection.) Makes one wonder how many other grossly overpriced audio products are going around, powered by

[@cunawarit]

@@LiquidEyes100 My guess is that most of these components are aimed squarely at a specific audience: high-end audiophile consumers with significant disposable income but limited technical knowledge. As you pointed out, this target market tends to lack curiosity about how these products actually work and often doesn’t possess the expertise to evaluate them critically. This makes them the ideal customers for such products, as they're unlikely to question the design or performance claims.

[@vinylrulesok8470]

Tom Evans always had a good reputation in the world of audio.... what on earth went wrong???