August 10 Pay to Win Aftermath: Trust & Uncertainty [Black Desert Online]

[@taotapp]

Man, what a riot. Never seen a BUY TO PLAY game with so many cash shop microtransactions and pay to win mechanics like this game. Glad I left early.

[@no_alias_for_me]

Such a shame, that game has a LOT of potential, I hate, when greed overcomes community needs.

[@MMODoubter]

The only potential the company sees is profit. They are not artists, they are business men.

[@no_alias_for_me]

MMODoubter Yeah I know, but there are many businesses which listen to their customers. K, it's about selling them more stuff, so profit increases. So if they just make this game p2w, they are NOT business men, they are idiots.

[@MMODoubter]

Philip Danzinger If it wasn't profitable, they would not do it. A lot of people want P2W. They just don't want it CALLED that.

[@ybet1000]

|o| |o| "when greed overcomes community needs" ... WTF is that!!!! So they wrote the game for the "black desert gaming community" rather than to make money? Is that what you believe? Let go of your joystick,,, and grip reality

[@no_alias_for_me]

ybet1000 You clearly did not understand what I wanted to say. Of course they want to make money, thats true for like 99,99% of all companies. Idiot. Second, especially in games or "products" which are connected to a thriving community, you need to listen to them. You just can't do whatever you want just to earn a higher amount of money with drastic changes. Thats just greedy and dumb. With changes like this you will lose most of your community ergo less profit. So they just lowered their revenue because of this. Conclusion: Dumb and greedy decision which destroyed a game with very high potential. PS: You do not "write" a game. The process consists of several steps. So, you "make" a game.

[@Rampo_VR]

100% with you. I already uninstalled. I love this game, it's the most fun I've had with a game ever. But I refuse to play under Kakao or PA anymore. Wanting money is fine but community neglect, lack of communication and outright lies are way too much for me.

[@dimitreus99]

How does it have any effect on gameplay though, just curious? Or is it simply a matter of principle?

[@Rampo_VR]

+dimitriy smolskiy As is, it doesn't so much. But the fact that there was a lot of outcry and not a single thing changed. Further down the line when they add harder p2w, the community will likely not have power to go against that either. Valks cry, RNG boxes or anything else they may add. Like I said, if they want money that's fine. If they need money (which it's like they don't since they got what they expected for a year after 5 months) and came out and say it, not ideal but fine. Instead they go completely silent and ignore everything and don't change anything. I can't stand for that personally.

[@BaldVulture87]

simply put the more silver you have the better your gear is. In a lot of other games the in-game currency is not the way you progress your character, however in BDO there are 2 aspects to progression, lvl's(which there is no cap) and gear which stops at PEN(+20). The only way to get your gear is either drops, buy from the marketplace with silver, or buy from NCP night vendor with silver, and I'm talking BIS(best in slot) gear and everything below. Also, the only way to get that gear to +20 is with a lot of silver and luck. so you see how this affects the whole game, breaking progression, and pissing me off. yes a lot of it is RNG and no1 needs to buy cash shop items to be competitive, but the bottom line is that if some1 who makes X amount more then you do because they bought item for real money then sold it for in game currencyand as a result has an advantage over you is P2W.

[@Daimon]

Sad that it made you quit the game. The game hasn't died at all, just your view. You neglect all of the positive outcomes and focus on the negative incomes because of ignorance.

[@Rampo_VR]

+Vitamindeeez Not sure who you're replying to but nobody said it did.

[@coreyadler]

Great video, this is the kind of thing Duam/Kakao games needs to hear! Very well put and I completely agree.

[@tarb1320]

Agree 100%, Dirtbag company, will never get another dime from me. I will still play it because of nothing else interests me atm (waiting for Pantheon) I suggest you do the same, play it but do not spend anymore money on it ever, no matter what you may want.

[@kwathreon4226]

Spent silver xD

[@tarb1320]

pretty much

[@liquidsin74]

Don't Spit up in the sky, it may fall back on your face. I bet they will bring something you will be interesting and spent that dime you hold so dearly.

[@liquidsin74]

Exactly. And the items nor the prices are game breaking whatsoever. I really am interested t know if any of these guys have played the game since that patch instead of following what the majority of these idiotic videos are saying.

[@Domeran]

Really nice video, sums up a lot of points people seem to be missing.

[@jello788]

boop

[@MorrolanTV]

Thanks Hakurai. Are you still feeling the same about no longer playing?

[@PurpleBean521]

It really sucks, I've loved and still love black desert and recommended it to people. I feel like the game was dying before they did this, most of my guild rarely gets on anymore and now that they've added this p2w feature I'm losing interest in a game that I thought I would be playing for months to come. Like you said, even though it's not as bad as we thought, it still violates what we were promised. Lets not mention that this isnt the first p2w thing they've done. If you think about it, value packs are like a subscription and give players access to lots of different things and sort of an edge.

[@vandelay98]

Do not forget in the original post about selling pearl items on the market place they said "We are open to the community’s feedback and we encourage you to share your thoughts and concerns in a constructive manner on this change. " Um they got over 250 pages of thoughts and most are constructive yet almost a week later not reply from Daum or more accurate KaKa games. At first P2W stopped me from playing and I did not even need to wait until patch day because they did not have a response so I knew this was happening and I uninstalled. I am stilled stunned at how a company that relies on a community can have such disrespect of not responding to anything. Yet somehow people still play and support these 2 faced lying rude crooks. I do not understand it. WezyrGame said it best below..."People who stayed after this patch are so naive :D They are like "Hey!, you can't fuck me, i'm leaving!" Few days later "Oh, you just going to fuck me a little bit? I can live with that". Also do not forget this is not WOW where you can set your own prices on the marketplace KaKa is so 10-20 million could go to 100 million before you know it!

[@WuHo]

There is no uncertainty. It WILL become exactly like KR version. And when and if enough of those who paid to play this game got angry and left, it will become f2p. It's gonna happen, you know it, you just don't want to admit it.

[@Astaticembrace]

This

[@Patchi_i]

Just to say up front: I truly agree with you. That said. I am not sure about GM Jouska because he has not yet stated he's thoughts on the update. He may have not been on board with it and does not a approve of it. Now, I am not going to outright defending him until I hear his answers. Anyways. Unfortunately I have no more trust to give to Kakao Games/Daum Games Europe. I have refunded it and will not be playing on the NA/EU servers in the future. I have however decided to come back to playing KR version to see the awakenings and play around with the newest futures. Well, either way. Grate video and I pray to RNGJesus that you will find you way.

[@batts1532]

There is two things you can do about this .... 1. Quit the game to show them that you dont agree with the deciet they gave you or.... 2. Shut up complaining, keep playing the game and let them get away with it. If you choose the later you will have no recourse for any future actions they may take in the future because you let them get away with it the first time. The best way to hurt a company that misleads you is to take away their source of income. QUIT, The game was best MMO for a long time but i have been duped before by Sony in Star Wars Galaxies and it is only a game. (look up what they did, i have never bought a Sony Product since) So show them who really controls their game and quit, just move on. There will be other games dont let them get away with it.

[@sarahshwartze3659]

The problem is not enough people get together to hurt their wallets enough

[@Wx3MKL]

Slippery slope downwards indeed. I remember thinking that ArcheAge couldn't get any more P2W, but how wrong was I. Once it starts, you never know when it ends.

[@Darocfi]

Everything they've done this far has been optimized to milk the most money out of the player base. They have been taking baby steps towards more and more pay to win and once they get unhappy with the sales due to the low silver/$ ratio they'll up the pearl store items' prices in the market to sell more. This game will be full free to play pay to win eventually.

[@thashroko]

valks cry will be on the market in the future. When the pearl shop marketplace grows stagnant they will implement them in the game because you get valks cry from grinding pearl shop items (processing). If nobody is buying pearl shop items for in game silver (because there will be a point when the people with the silver to buy outfits have already) then to generate more $$ PA/DAUM will put them in, people will buy the outfits off the marketplace and grind them for valks cry. oh and you will also get them in pearl box's

[@Sebianeri]

Completely agree with this video! On the matter of Valk's Cry, what you said will completely happen. Those weren't Korean or Japanese characters, they weren't on some, they were on all of the necessary items; Valk's Cry was simply a slip up from their end. They accidentally showed their P2W plans and his "present tense" statement about it, will soon be withdrawn.

[@tomh05]

thank you hit the nail on the head........ Don't think i can trust another mmo again consistently go p2w im done $300 dollars wasted and 1000's of hours gg thanks for making my progress is easily outclassed. Morrolan TV thankyou for the great content tho :D

[@bushido2899]

I can't say I am surprised because I never had any fixed expectations. These people will always "re-evaluate" their business models in the interests of profit despite any statements made in the past. We should expect that the only strong positions they will hold are the ones leading to maximum profit. And those positions will shift. The fact is they can always change/reverse their position and provide carefully worded justification to soften the blow. Trying to hold them to what they say is a waste of time. Its not in their best interest to provide absolution in any direction. If they did it was a mistake. It is also naive to harbor feelings of betrayal as you will almost never have a bond/trust with any corporation that goes beyond increasing their profit margins.

[@MorrolanTV]

It's not about a "bond" with the company, haha, I'm just talking about trust in the sense that many of us will now be less likely to believe anything this company says, and as a result, less likely to invest any additional money into the game. Sort of like if you buy a product that is supposed to last a year and it breaks after a few months - you're less likely to believe anything that company says about the quality of future products.

[@bushido2899]

That seemingly valid notion is of no real detriment to them as most players are enamored with the game itself and not necessarily the company running it. And there lies the mitigating factor with the risk of making the game pay to win. Also the changes they made haven't necessarily ruined the playing experience of everyone or some players haven't really notice or care to acknowledge in lieu of having fun. A lot of people who hate this change should be quitting but aren't quitting just yet. And lets not forget the pay to win crowd willing to stay. This is just another common event in the world of MMORPGs. These companies will always chase a profit despite your hopes and personal beliefs so its best to not put much hopes it what they say. They have somewhat of an advantage because we collectively allow it but aren't readily collectively willing to walk out on them.

[@Adzigari]

Since this is a buy to play game (at the moment) there is a difference between continuing to PLAY and continuing to PAY. There are reasons to quit the game because of this change, but dropping a mandatory sub and losing all access to the game is not one of those reasons. The only reason I am still playing is because I'm a GM trying to keep my guild community in-tact for another MMO. That doesn't mean I'm spending another dime on the game itself from this point on.

[@StraightcheD]

While I agree with you for the most part, that in itself doesn't invalidate the criticism of dishonesty in general. So I take it you didn't intend that to be a counter-argument to the video, but rather just augmentative.

[@MMODoubter]

If that becomes a common sentiment, MMOs as a genre will die. The industry itself will have to adopt a code of ethics to assure potential customers that the games will not be altered in such a drastic manner.

[@LPcrazy_88]

Poor Jouska... The bottom line is this was always going to be a P2W model no matter how much it was prettied up, and too many people were "surprised" that the picture became more clear. Do not forget that we have received and most likely will continue to receive content updates without forking over more money. It is incredibly unrealistic to expect a game that has no "consistent" flow of cash in a monthly or such payment structure to not be P2W (would you invest in a game that didn't have "regular" cast flow if you were an investor?). I accepted this from the start, even with the B2P model portrayed, and prepared my butt hole, but apparently that makes me part of the minority. Also do not forget that absolutely no GM or any other public figure head we will ever know by name, will ever have the true ability to guide/control content release/updates. They are merely the puppets of the decision makers in the BUSINESS. TLDR: I prepared my butt hole for P2W, most didn't, and lots of people QQ. Welcome to the real world my innocent children.

[@Igamble777]

BDO is temporary cash cow for KAKAO Games future projects

[@GinoParras]

Yea. Im done with this game. Not hating but just disappointed. I know i know some people will stay and some even happy that there are people leaving. Just wanna say goodluck to the people that will still play the game and have fun. Just realize that ur fun playing is a must and realize how the impact of people leaving on the long run. GG

[@crazyRyoga]

I totally agree. The "uncertainty" you are talking about is definitely the worst part of this thing. Personally I decided not to spend any more money on the game. I will simply play it because I like it and maybe leave it for something else in the future. It's a pity anyway, because they could just have made a better shop based on purely cosmetic items. I mean, look at how many costumes you can find in gw2...Instead they decided to build the shop around "convenience" and "slightlty p2w" items...

[@Erebus2075]

also keep in mind the majority out the people with brains has either left or left the morons to their own on the forum and keep away. it is clear that they didn't care view every one was against it so at this point there is no reason to keep repeating the problems in it. personally I will play until I get bored but I am done supporting them,will buy Northing more from them ever and I am a high spender so people like me is a loss to them.

[@Erebus2075]

writting from a mobile so to many auto correct typos

[@JanErik.]

Agree 100%

[@jimr9185]

Happens to every pay to win game, most of the players leave and the remaining few are the pro-p2w cash shop whales and white knights.

[@Amadourrr]

+LiparksGaming cough cough *path of exile* cough if having an awesome cosmetic on your character is p2w then maybe yes it is p2w :)

[@wanashthegash]

PoE is not a shit game, just from your point of view, its a solid game.

[@psychoscotch]

I came back to the game a few days ago and saw two things which made it clear to me that the game is going downslope, game chat is much more quiet and all channels are quite empty. Even daily boss spots are not zerged anymore. The other day Bheg spawn spot was clear no one to see around...

[@Chr1sT0fu]

65m with marketplace tax, for $150 a week.. I'm not sure if anyone would define that as pay to win, and I'm not sure who would spend that much for only 65m. And before people say "Those prices are going to rise", we've been following KR's patches almost identically. That being said, KR's costume price stayed at 20m (like us) for 1.5 years, until only very recently it was boosted because silver became much easier to make (15-20m/hr). So we have reason to believe that ours will also stay at 20m for a while. It's all about relative silver accessibility.

[@robertfaber5871]

This makes sense. As long as the inflation involved can be measured in time spent, I'm fine with adjustments to that end.

[@Kazman123]

No tax on pearl items. Prices will be adjusted by daum to make the least impact on the game, as long as there is a steady income of real money, they will keep the prices as low as possible as that's in their best interest. They are a dishonest company, there has been zero communication on their part, and they have driven away a huge amount of players from a brilliant game in the space of a couple of weeks because of greed. MMO's are a lot to do with community, making huge changes to a game and ignoring the outcry from a large amount of loyal and dedicated players is suicide for the games health. Just look at the end game PvP, there are more available nodes than active PvP guilds now.

[@AlbertoMartinez765]

Yep, I sold a pet to try out the system, 5.9 million for $11 dollars is NOT a good exchg rate IMO could make the same money if not more by just gathering and selling 1 hard crystal, not the end of the world I'll keep playing as long as I have fun which I do.

[@Bruhza22]

I think the point is that we had to pay for this game, their's started as a F2P. They manipulated people into believing that their version wouldn't be anything like other versions. Pretty much the only difference now is that we had to pay and they didn't. Besides, $150 is nothing to quite a bit of people and they would gladly spend that much to get any sort of edge in the game.

[@BaldVulture87]

remember the dye's they started @300k every1 freaked out but people said exchange rate was shit so it was dismissed, last time I checked they went up to 4-5mil a pop... that's a 1233.33% increase in price ... what makes you think the prices on marketplace are set in stone. they leave it low so dumb ppl say na its not p2w exchange rate is shit.. but they will slowly increase it, just watch and see.

[@stblack1922]

Agree fully on the trust point. But they will never come out and commit to a line they wont cross. No comms from them means they will do whatever is necessary to maximize revenues. If game pop dwindles, they'll go f2p and crank up the p2w. If game continues to do well, they'll hold off on max p2w until game no longer does well. What they wont do is commit to a clear p2w limit... They clearly see p2w as a revenue channel and they wont not make the money even as they see the game decline in the future. Sad, I agree. Hard to stay immersed with the trust issue you've described well in this video.

[@EadricRicmund]

To be fair this happens in the gaming industry a lot. The PR guys usually have no clue what the developers are really planning, they are just presented what they got briefed on. I have no doubt that guy truly believe stuff like this would never happen in bdo. For example the whole Xbox one fiasco. Their pr guy kept insisting it's difficult to removed mandatory drm and mandatory Kinect connectivity for Xbox one, and literally 2 days later Microsoft engineers announced Xbox one bundles without Kinect and have removed always online drm.

[@michellesanctuary9089]

You have highlighted very good points. It is a shame such explendid game being managed so poorly.

[@Phat_man]

EVEryone should be entitled to refund because they have gone back on their word for they have give a feature that we were drawn into the games because it wasnt suppose to existso go for it

[@johnkiser1410]

They never went back on their word is the thing. It was very very very clear from the start that they were going to re-eventuate these things. Saying something won't happen at launch and that they'd re-eventuate the situation down the line shows more or less that they kept their word fully. In fact they even stated controls would be in place so it couldn't be abused like crazy and that was done to. You are not entitled to a refund for creating a narrative in your head where they lied and people picked up on one thing a CM said about them not having subs and no immediate plans to have a premium sub (note no immediate plans that doesn't mean not ever)

[@steamwinder6460]

I'm not pissed because my favorite game went P2W but because I was lied to. I agree 100% with you. When I bought BDO I was assured that there will be NO P2W. But hind sight is 20 / 20 isn't it? If there was even just a small hint of P2W I would not have sunk good money into this game so of course they would lie. Now the question is; Is this the new MMO business model? If so, what can we as consumers do about it?

[@christopherleetrejo]

i dont mind the change because i dont wanna spend real money for a pet or anything else. i can now get a desert fox for 5 mil... and i think there are alot of players that are like me that arent "raging". you cant make everyone happy i guess.

[@MarcheTen]

It's just funny because avoiding p2win isn't something people wish to only do for the first few months of a game's launch. It's something a lot of people don't wish to see in their games period so these timed promises are clearly attempts at misleading people anyways.

[@lucascampestrini467]

the game is called black desert, but that desert is clearly sand color... they lied from the beggining

[@KaedricPupette]

Just bought the game a week ago, didnt knew it'll be that far in Pay to Win... Do you think the game is lost with that kind of Pay to win ? Can a normal 30 buck player can still be competitive ?

[@Geologese]

Warriorpoet... On another note, your point is so true.

[@7j3-Tango-Hotel]

IMO they open the door to CS sales to the AH with dyes. Accounting for RNG, $->silver conversion ratio is only a little less for dyes than it is for costumes, ~about 15% less. So overall the game is now only about 15% more P2W than before... not a big deal but yeah, where do we go from here? Another 15%? Another 30% increase in conversion ratio some day down the road??

[@Arzual]

I was pretty interested in playing this game but after all ive heard I dont know... Need to know a few things. If you can sell cash stuff in the market for the ingame currency, wich in some way is used to upgrade gear/statts/skills? (dont know, because ive not played this game yet) is it at the end of the day pay2win or pay2progressfaster? Can you, with this system, actually gain something a player who wont spend cash cant?

[@yuukarnstein]

and people still crying for a 30$ outfit selling at 20m... with 5 limit per week.. OH MY GOD.. YOU CAN DO THREE TIME MORE SILVER FARMING THAN SELLING OUTFITS!Stop the drama and go farm/fishing

[@MannyLou]

I agree with you, but I think the fact that we didn't want it and provided our feedback against it, but they still did it anyways. Also all the money is in pets. $5.00 for 5 mil

[@AlbertoMartinez765]

the fox is 11 ..( I got shafted...not worth it imo

[@jello788]

The intention word they gave was broken. Thats whats the issue

[@RelaxSimmer]

How does the game compare now 5 months later?

[@akireon5440]

LOL they just raised the price of vanity outfits to 50 mil... You called it! They just waited a year to do it when all the old players left and now it's just us newbies. And, the timing of this was about 2 months after the steam release. So, I guess they're thinking is they've now caped the new player base so now lets make more cash.

[@Eric-le9hr]

Well said,it wasn't what they did, it was how they did it. I could have played BDO with F2P and microtransactions. However, I'm not playing a game with every pay model known to online gaming. Buy 2 play, cash shop, subscription package, SO FAR. The game is the best MMO out for sure and cheap to buy, but if you want to be competitive better get your wallet out.

[@ltwhisper]

@Morrolan Tv well jouska cant disobey the company who brought daum, kakao ? if he want to stay in the company. did he lie at the time, i dont think so. this is a new company monitering the BDO na eu. it is not daum anymore.

[@mikkelthomsen403]

Am I the only one who is just mindblown, that this insane amount of outburst in the community didn't even get a response? So many thousands of comments, all topguilds on every single server protesting - and they don't even comment on it? I srsly hope they get fcked, bigtime at GamesCon where they can't hide or refuse to answer, I even consinder going to GamesCon just to get some god damn answers.

[@Terranova339]

I also feel really bad for recommending this game to my friends... If I knew it was going this path of cash-grab & p2w, I wouldnt have let them waste 30€/50€ on the game :/

[@ZaPewPew]

Nice video Morrolan TV and it was fun to watch your streams. I will just move to another genre of online games like League of Legends for PvP only and Kakao can do what they think its best for BDO.

[@TwistedKarma]

My issues with them revolve around their terrible communication with playerbase, so I agree on that entirely.

[@skuko1980]

how do you feel about this months later? any new thoughts? i just got the game like a week ago, kinda curious.

[@MorrolanTV]

Months later, the game has improved so much overall that those of us still playing have just made our peace with the fact that the cash shop is what it is. We still don't know what new "features" will be coming to the cash shop in the future, so the game could always take a turn for the worse, but in the meantime the game has been doing incredibly well. I definitely recommend it as long as you can accept it for what it is - a beautiful, open, brilliant game with a slightly irritating (but could be much worse) business model.

[@skuko1980]

my brother has been playing since release, so I do have a rough idea, wanted your take on it. my 2 cents are that this is nowhere near p2w. people seem to mistake p2w for "pay to progress faster/pay for convenience." my definition of pay to win (and I strongly believe also the "correct" one) is that p2w must be something in the shop which is exclusive to the shop, prohibiting the non-paying players access to it, giving the paying players an unfair advantage. I am aware, that having more money is almost as big of an advantage as what I just described above, but it can be largely mitigated, if not completely offset by simply investing more time in the game. from my perspective of someone starting the game almost a year after release, I do welcome the option of getting a little more money faster. I can't play as often as I'd like and knowing that I can fall back on this, makes me simply enjoy the game more, if you know what I mean.

[@MaxBlight]

Continue doing the slippery slope fallacy bandwagon, it makes you look cooler

[@voltronhasguns]

"The community is angry" - the vast majority of the community is still playing and don't care about p2w. Everyone's posts in general chat right now. "Wow, I thought more people were leaving. I can't tell a difference."

[@jojokik7370]

Orwen 12 hours after the patch implementing selling pearl shop items I counted all costume boxes and ONLY the full costume boxes and Kakao games made over $25k just from 1 of the 3 NA servers. I am not saying I agree with their choice to make these changes so soon in-game but on the other hand it is a business and they are going to do what ever they can to make profits, not make the community happy. If you think there is no community in BDO anymore just start reading this over again until you get it.

[@reverseeffectapplications1493]

And how long until those profits run dry? Some of those people are just dipping their feet in the pond. I honestly don't see how people are just going to continue spending like that when so many people are leaving. Even if I was to still want to buy a costume, I couldn't make myself because of the direction the game is going. I'm sure a lot of others feel (or will feel) the same way. BDO cannot survive on such a menial profit margin. You cannot even pay your employees/operating costs/fees/taxes with that amount.

[@jojokik7370]

I counted the how many full costume boxes were sold on the market exactly 12 hours after the patch and just in the costume sales Kakao made $25k just from 1 server on NA. They are in no way running out of players or dumb people to spend $30 for 20mil silver. Look at how many real p2w games have been out 5+ years and you will see there is more then enough people playing that have more money then brains. To each there own though.

[@reverseeffectapplications1493]

I'll give you my stance on other P2W games. Let's take TERA (PvE Servers) and Vindictus for example. In TERA and Vindictus, P2W actually doesn't hurt anyone. In fact, those games P2W is almost welcomed, because the P2W aspect of it helps when working as a team in a dungeon or something similar. In BDO, P2W helps no one except the player themselves. That's why this is going to have a hard time. Even Kakao/Daum admits that their strategies appear to be cash grabs. They said "appear to be", but that may also be BS as well, since they aren't credible with their original statements.

[@Inuyasha7685]

I've never liked Daums clever wording. Players have been confused from the beginning on what to really expect. It's like when players asked Daum if they would ever add a male sorcerer or ranger and they said... we have no plans to add these classes at this time. Not their exact words. So players are fighting over the meaning of that statement. Does that mean not ever...or just for now. I do not like that. Clever speech is just a mask for dishonesty.

[@D3athlyV1sag3]

They just fucked it. EA is better at that :D

[@Toutong_]

+Nathan Lee You allways need to see the negative side (for you and positive for them) when someone is using clever words, that's usually what it's meaning ^^ Community wants to add a male sorcerer or ranger and they reply with "we have no plans to add these classes at this time", means they won't (cost less money for them) ^^ Community ask if a p2w feature is going to be impletemented "we have no plans to add these features at this time", means they will (because more money) ^^

[@Inuyasha7685]

+Minetoutong That is very true indeed.

[@johnkiser1410]

How was it clever wording? It was rather clear wording. They stated that they wouldn't have a sub at launch and had no plans for it immediately (don't confuse an immediate plan for it with never doing it) and the pearl shop items on marketplace was 100% clear. They stated as far as pearl items go that Pearl items would not be sellable on the marketplace at launch and that they would re-evaluate allowing those items to be sold on the marketplace later and if they decided to allow them that there would be controls in place so it couldn't be abused. If anything their wording was clear and they actually kept their word. People want to nitpick the sub thing as a "never" situation because they make up shit in their heads.

[@Daimon]

Okay sure, uncertainty. But is the game completely broken? Is the p2w wall completely insurmountable? The dollar to silver conversion rate is actually pretty poor. A dollar for less than just a million on average. This step may help players reach the current soft cap, but that's it. They will still have to put in a lot of work, and in fact in can draw good attention to the game. Good points made here, but likewise, the topic of trust and uncertainty is REALLY a justification to look at the negative things about a game, when there's nothing that can be done. It's like a child who was promised something but had it taken away. If that child never gets over it, he'll never be able to progress or mature. Sure it sucks, but you have to get over it in order to move on.

[@MaoMaoPrince]

savage world play at the end there mate

[@mohdagha1]

all my friends and guild m8s quit the game ... its over for me i dont want to play another Archeage they only care about milking ppl sorry but its over

[@D3athlyV1sag3]

I'm playing ESO and FFXIV. Best MMORPGS right now. WoW is there but yeah. Purely taste. I have a wide interest myself. Right now it is ESO. Unless it's a trusted company (or semi-trusted like Bethesda-ish, mostly bugs and small inconveniences but still great) or a good subscription based model that interests me with no cash shop or a cash shop for PURELY cosmetic items.

[@SirMcLowen]

include Gw2 in ur list..... and yeah ESO and FFXIV and WoW.... still some of the games... that is worth ur Cash

[@D3athlyV1sag3]

Yeah, I forgot about it. Woops. I lost interest in GW2 really quick but it is still good. Purely by tastes I was dissatisfied with the game. Still great to check out none the less.

[@VisionoftheChief]

+D3athlyV1sag3 FFXIV is all I've been playing the past 2-3 weeks.

[@D3athlyV1sag3]

FFXIV is great. But I find it too slow at times. So I have to satiate that fast paced MMORPG action with something else. It's far from perfect but it's incredibly polished.

[@pinie111]

I agree the problem is not the 80mil its the dishonesty.

[@elstink]

I almost picked it up at launch, should I pick it up now?

[@adamlevi87]

i think this "proves" that the translators of the game dont have much of a say, even if they might agree with us, they are not in charge and we cant rely on them.

[@ojanieno]

The game has been p2w from the very start. Using the word "convinience" for something that speeds up your progress multiple times is just wrong.

[@86BEAMS]

the company that promised you a non pay to win game was sold and bought out by kakao i'd concider everything they've said in the past to be null and void

[@shadovvwolfie790]

6 months later everyone is living with the update because it has done nothing more than encourage players who can't snipe market items to buy pearl items. Infact I think I mentioned numerous times over world chat (back when servers were split on Eden) that people speculate and dish out rumors intentionally to hurt developers and producers just for the sake of doing it. In this case it worked on the ignorant and anyone with the slightest idea on how a economy worked or has seen a freaking Tri Tree belt knows that selling pearl shop items isn't profitable enough even if you like wasting money and that regardless of if you can sell pearl items or not the concept of selling cash items cannot make a game market break because... why? YOU NEED MONEY TO BUY THINGS! You can't just sell a item to air and get rich xD The game is alive and well and to be honest by now BDO players should know the truth abut P2W. "It isn't selling cash items that is P2W, but the purchase of a item from a cash shop that gives advantages over other players in combat that is P2W." Quote me on that. And yes I mean to say that guille suit, dogs(in mass PvP where people actually want to hide from others) and anything else that gives a clear advantage in combat that cannot be gained unless you pay cash for it regardless of if you sell it is P2W. Honestly being able to sell cash items makes P2W tolerable like in games like Mabinogi where they release cash items that will be toptier for months before they release craftable items that beat it.

[@reverseeffectapplications1493]

At least they did it when I got my Kunoichi to 50. It prevented me from saving $30 on a costume. Such a shit hole of a company to treat its customers like that. And shame on the customers that are feeding Daum money knowing they are being treated like that.

[@RealSugam]

A year later, still can not buy outright p2w items. Silver per real money is like a buck for 1m silver, which is a srs rip off. The game is doing just fine, just need NA/EU to get the same content as KR.

[@CalebAyrania]

Clearly you keep missing the term p2w. If an item gives an advantage, but it can be traded with other players, then its play to pay. The advantage is on the side of the people that play and creates the money. The silver is created by players, and there is only a time advantage for the cash whale. This type of change is NOT pay to win, that is when something is exclusive and only grants advantage to the cash rich, and the time rich have no chance to make up for that advantage.

[@beefcakemonsta]

There is only 1 game currently that i saw that is not P2W but rather P4C is Guildwars 2. That is the game only by far that has a cashshop that is not ruining the economy of the game at all. Sure, You can spend hundreds of $ to get IG currency to get a legendary. But the Legendaries in GW2 are only as strong as ascended weapon there. So no harm oh being P2W there, Because ascended weapons are easily attainable in the game.

[@RyuTheRed]

Great video!

[@kingzor3000]

Game never even made it to 8 months b4 hitting the great wall... R.I.P B.D.O

[@3X0SK3L3TON]

you got a like and a subscribe with that TLDR in the video description. :)

[@RicardoMartinezWrit]

I'd agree, if I hadn't played pc games long enough to not expect assurances. B2P will always go ftp, and then cash shop, and then ptw. that's just what's going to happen. The money flow is great, then not, needs to get increased, then again, then again. how long do you think you could play this game and keep their people employed, without eventually getting bored and play something else. Can you assure the developers? Not taking sides, just a realist. But we shouldn't be surprised by this behavior, when we elect a president that has lied and lied, and flip flopped on everything, we are kind of encouraging it.

[@sylvainZa]

AAnd i still cant play the game in my region.. I Never got a chance to be upset :/

[@trumps_toupee]

Wait for it to go F2P and then proxy it up?

[@lucaleone4331]

Please dont hate me, BUT : If i dont plan on doing PvP, does alot of this negativity affect me?

[@shammydammy2610]

*You* may not plan on doing pvp but the game is set up for it after a certain level, so you'll do it anyway.

[@AcheliusDecimus]

I kept saying this game reminds me of AOW, and yup once again it still reminds me of AOW.

[@rathernot5709]

Can someone break it down for me, I have only been playing a week, but don't see items that make you stronger in battle in the cash shop. Just skins and convenience options. So far I am approaching 20mil silver which is not far off from getting w/e I want in the marketplace and I am lv35~

[@RedChibu]

I didnt even heard that they will set a cap of 20 million for the costumes. thats even worse than before. now the people how want to spend their money to be OP in the game get ripped off, cuz they need to buy more costumes to sell, to get the amount of money they need to be OP. So one way or the other. they really fucked the game up.

[@kkustos]

Does no one consider that they might actually NEED the money to keep the game afloat?

[@NamekSaiyan]

they sold 1 million units do the math ya fucking dingus

[@TaigaGaoo]

There are way better and smarter ways to get money if they actually needed it. Make it a sub based MMO. Something like 10$ a month. Make it so that the game is free till around level 20 (just like WoW does) and then you have to pay a monthly fee to keep playing and progressing. This would have attracted new players as they would had been able to try the game and see if they actually liked it and make, for obvious reasons, more money. Reduce the price of Costumes and release more. 30$ for a single costume is beyond retarded and absurd, specially when in the actual game there's only like 4 armors total per class, that in all honestly, look damn awful. Yet no one in his sane mind will pay the same amount of money that he paid for the game for just one costume. Reduce it to 10-15$. i know a lot of people that would have got all the costumes in the store for the classes they liked and even get some for friends and relatives that also played it if the price was reasonable. At 30$? Not a chance. Sell the expansions at a reasonable price. The game costed you 30$, the new expansion is 15-20$. Perfect range for a new area and content. These are just 3 extremely simple and easy ways for them to make more money without fucking their player base and destroying their own reputation and game in the process.

[@NamekSaiyan]

Your last paragraph sums it up pretty well

[@j255173]

I don't play BDO but I do play GW2 a lot, and in that game you could use your money to buy gems and convert to in game gold, and buy some pretty cool stuff like legendary weapons, gear, and other items like xp boosters, crafting xp boosters, granted it would be quite a bit of money, but you can do it nonetheless, and really most of this stuff is cosmetic, the stat boosts from buying a legendary would not make or break your experience, the game does a good job of balancing out its PVP mechanics and so forth, that you probably wouldn't know that that person bought his legendary over players like myself that spent months farming, and earning it. WOW, although I have not played it since end of Wrath, apparently now you can outright buy max level characters. Terra from what I heard is famous or infamous for its cash shop. So is this whole BDO thing more of a moral, honest and integrity stand point, because the game company said they would not do "p2w" transactions and now that they did, that's the problem, or will players that now have access to these items have such a big advantage that it breaks the game? I only ask because it seems to me that going forward MMOs wont be subscription based, the people have spoken ha, but I feel that in game transactions are they way going forward, for good or ill, and I've seen videos on this topic and people talk about it from a scummy company standpoint, and from a "These players now have an advantage they didn't earn". That and I wanted to check this game out.

[@coolhunter3]

Buying a max level character in wow does literally nothing...You can get that level by playing casually for a few days. It doesn't give you any advantage over other people, all it does is cheapen your experience and make it so you now have a class you don't know how to play since you didn't level it yourself.

[@j255173]

Ah, got it! Seems like Ill put this on the backburner for now. It just sucks that so many players lost their game, time and were taken for fools, but I'm glad gamers got together to protest in game and stuff. Thanks for the response.

[@seager1983]

This is why I only pay monthly subscription mmos. I would rather pay 15 a month then deal with this bullshit.

[@coolhunter3]

That says nothing. I would say the exact same thing about buy to play games, yet here Daum proves that they will even make b2p games go p2w.

[@seager1983]

Played eq, ffxiv reborn, wow all subbed base never had these issues.

[@coolhunter3]

Joshua Seager In WoW you can buy bonds off the store and sell them in the AH for gold.

[@Thozel]

Agreed with your video :) Really hard to think where games really goes from here but sadly in my mind they will make it p2w in some point. How else they get people to start this game? Someone(like me) have been playing game from day 1 and that is huuuge gap to close if you start now. Pvp is purely gear orientated so people who want to go do sieges or GvG it is long time to kill mobs and enchant your gear . They could just hand out ok gear to start with but still does not eliminate problem that you need silver to get things rolling. sadly these kind of games have tendency to kill them self's. p.s they could sell chars right to lvl 50 but with this community that would be pay to win anyways...also does not remove gear problem

[@vree_]

well and you were a 100% right!

[@xConundrumx]

Never going to happen. You are not being realistic asking for it either. For a number of reasons. The outset of the game (endless progression) is just such that they cannot afford to _not_ put some mechanics in there that will allow new players to 'get into the action'. In other games there are catch-up mechanics too. Characters that start at level X instead of level 1 being an example. But with endless progression there is no way to do that (or rather it would not help much). Now don't get me wrong, greed is at the core of the problem. The 'pay to win' feel is just a side effect.

[@alaingeneral5068]

Well most ppl prefer to ignore the truth rather then face it and as for the last comment saying that ALL mmorpgs today and in the future will have RL money to in-game currency you obviously havent played many mmos or know what calculated profits are. I can name you a few where you wont find one single item that you can buy with RL money and be able to buy it in game and ofc these are only asthetic items not p2w items. Most ppl just think that doing the ostrich and putting your head in a hole so you dont see the problems anymore means they dont exist.

[@MrRealgala]

No assurance should be expected from a private company that you pay money to use their services because you make the transaction with your own will. If there is a change you don't like, you always have the right to get out of or cancel your contract. The word trust is too emotional for a financial transaction and believe me mmo history saw way worse see:SWG nge and Everquest next I hear you about your issue eventhough I dont really care that much about it; If this is the case for you, you should play something else and see if that is a company you can trust or not.

[@bonclay7763]

a desert with no sandstorms... ? and 4-5 mobs come on ;/ , Where is the quick sands, crawling underground rotsworms , mirages... dehydration ? Bristling sun ... Dry lands with holes (rabbits/etc) dungeon? .... :o all i saw was a camel going at 100% speed... fk

[@Jordan-Ramses]

If you lose half your players but make 3 times the money off of the ones that remain = profit.

[@randomdude4136]

Come on surely u understand if they did say what they talk about in meetings it would just go. We are a for profit organisation, therefore we will do what will allow us to maximize our profits without breaking the law.

[@dragoloco700Official]

Tottally share your thoughts 👍

[@kaiosun]

good thing that I left soon after they fucked up with fishing and other professions because of EXP bug turned on by them. It was reported in under 24 hours, nothing was done about it on EU and then they gave free exploit weekend for NA marketing it every day vs only few people knowing about it on EU and not having any rollbacks. Other games give you suits for your account in BDO you need one per character, roflmao.

[@masspayne]

"Community" the "community" was divided because some didnt want the game to become "p2w" and others simply didnt care if it did, so what they did was implement the cashshop items on the market and put it on 20mil cap, now tell me who the fuck that dosent have mental issues uses 150€ for 100m sure you dont waste time on grinding and stuff but hell no thats not "p2w"

[@neikoo7785]

As of 2017 this game is not pay to win its pay to get a pet or cosmetics. I have not paid more then 10$ and i am top level and having fun

[@thebloodreaperarmy7768]

I for one am glad that I can buy cash shop items with in game currency, I got a costume today that would usually be 30+ dollars for 20 mil silver, which took about a week ish for me to get (wasn't playing to much each day so could be more, a lot of it was from rewards n shit tho)

[@BaldVulture87]

some rich guy who doesn't give a fk should sue them for false ad. in front of the supreme court. will probably cost more then you get back but some1 should do it to teach those lying bastards a lesson.(edit) also the 20 mil costumes and people saying its not p2w, well let me bring you back 1-2 months, when they added the dye's, at first ppl freaked but then prices were low(around 300k/each) exchange rate bad so it was dismissed, look at the dye's price today. last I checked in july it was 4-5mil a pop that's like a 1233% increase in price, I think they're doing the same with costumes and will slowly move the prices upwards... marketplace prices are not set in stone guys.

[@janherfs3063]

I didn't play it and still stuff like that makes me sad

[@Sajc0]

they might aswell fuckin open trading and let gold sellers sell now since they dont make anything better

[@BenDol90]

CHARGE US FOR EXPANSIONS lol really wish we would allow them to charge us for expansions and new content. I would rather that than paying to win the game.

[@Mariner35]

Damn. What the hell happened since I've been gone? If BDO really has gone p2w, I don't think I'll come back.

[@trumps_toupee]

It hasn't gone F2P. I, personally, fully expect it to based on Kakao's actions, however. I also expect the cap on pearl shop items to increase after the heat from the latest update completely subsides.

[@Mariner35]

Sorry, meant p2w. Edited now.

[@trumps_toupee]

Mariner35 Aha. In that case: no, it's not terribly pay to win at current (although it's still an edge). At this point, however, no one should readily put their trust into D-K.

[@Kuromora]

First off, people should have read the post bdo made about cash shop items might be sold on the auction house. So there was no broken trust. Another thing to mention is that yeah this is a little pay to win feature that is now in the game but from a financial standpoint this probably will hold bdo above water rather than having it drown. Sure they had enough money to keep the servers going until next year plus ppl spending money on the overpriced cash shop but what happens next year? This game was dead. Lets face it, every person I know has quit the game long before this shit has come about and I know quite a bit of people. This game was dying before this p2w feature was put in place and now that it is maybe just maybe it will be the thing to save it so that the shit doesn't die next year. It's fucking ridiculous how I keep seeing these crap videos on my feed on a game that I had quit long beforehand and that I am now rejoining because hey I can fucking make something of myself now in a game instead of putting my soul on a platter and feeding it to the game so that I can actually do end game content. Maybe now I will actually see bdo ads because I haven't seen any ever since this game was released. That should show you how poor this game must have been doing on a financial standpoint.

[@dlamont07]

Ima be honest I did not watch the whole video here because when he started talking about psychology and things I was like this dude is already going to deep into it. Its honestly this simple. From the moment the majority of you who are upset bought the top package it was not to donate money to the company, It was not to tell this company good job guys here is some extra money for bringing the game to the west. No it was to have an advantage over the people who had bought the lower tier packages and get a head start in the game. From the moment Anyone bough the medium to top tier package you were pay 2 win. So it literally bothers me now that anyone wants to yell pay 2 win now after you literally just spent 100 dollars or more to have those advantages that lower teir has. My point being is we started the path the moment we bought the game dont be upset now that their adding more. If anyone was upset the game was pay to win you should have asked them to not make the business model the way it was the incentives on the packages. I personally bought the top tier package so I could be ahead of everyone Ive already accepted i was pay 2 win from that moment. When I bought any type of outfits that had stats in the pearl shop that was pay 2 win its literally been all over this game. The only difference is it got to much for those who are complaining but in all honesty should have never got the game in the first place. If you wanted no pay 2 win aspects at all

[@kha0sv4ktor72]

i think they should create an pay to win game only for pay to win^^ you start with free to play and you have to pay for the textures for couple cents and build your way up...10 million doller/euro for an armor that gives max defense or something^^ these guys would get so much hate

[@Quake_X1]

Honestly, I'm happy I got bored of this game before it betrayed me. Lol

[@giorgosVahliotisVAH]

When games left to money leechers businessman

[@eriqterry6695]

OK I'm new to black desert but in all honesty. I get they went back on there word but be honest guys how do u expect a game to survive without change.i know that it sucks but it's not like it breaks the game everyone can't spend hours and hours on the game to grind but some people like me love it.I feal like I'm a minority but everyone is hurt over this but be honest everyone still gets the money for p2w if someone sells an outfit and buys your gear you get there money.To me it seems like the most ppl who are hurt are those who play for hours on end but stop and think about people who can't but love the game as much as u do I just think everyone should calm down lol.just my opinion

[@czownator]

the game is actually less Pay to Win because now People can buy value packs, costumes and pets super cheap costume =19.7m máx Pet are like 9m máx value pack is like 9m máx too Also sellers are límited to 5 per week value pack tax reduction does NOT APPLY to Pearl shop máx profit per week is 65m thats not p2w at all In fact People buying for that exchange rate of dólares silver is so terrible than those doing it actually are helping other People getting Pearl items WITHOUT going p2w 65m per week is nothing i get around 500m per week without spending any dollar

[@gkfkfidj]

XDDDDDD the point of adding this feature was to boost pearl shop sales! no one will buy stuff if it is only 9-20 million silver! so of cause the prices will sky rocket in the near future...how can one be so naiv and stupid lol...but hey dude can you give me your credit card details? i promise i just want to look at them, at this stage i dont have any other plans with them so please